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add1ctedt0you · 9 months

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that fic idea where WWX is sent to a universe where JC isn't paying attention to him/being sad about him because JGY was JC's childhood bestie... effervescent

the many stages of WWX's reaction

YEAH. THE FEELINGS. THE MANY STAGES OF WWX'S REACTIONS INDEED

(sorry I got overboard while thinking how things would play...) it's very long!!

you haven't asked, but imo at the start, wwx is very excited! He is in his old body again! He has his strong golden core back!( Imo he is scarred by being 'the number one cultivation world's enemy'.) So, it's nice having cultivators who admire him! He is happily married with the love of his life, he is an accomplished scientist and a fun teacher! He didn't even kill 2000 people or his shijie! Everything is perfect.

So he goes to visit jc: his shidi isn't mad at him anymore! Why should he be? He didn't have crimes under his belt anymore.

Lotus Pier, the SAME lotus pier as before the massacre (there was a war, wwx knows that. Maybe during the rebuilding jc has found someone with great memory! Nice!), doesn't throw him out. He feels welcomed.

And then he goes to the sect leader (he has to ask before the disciples let him in the throne room. Rude, but he understands, jc loves formality. - lwj is quite confused... Why would sect leader jiang immediately run to welcome them? But wei ying is happy, so he holds back)

And then, they arrive at the throne room... And jc is there, at his rightful place, proud and scowly, and wwx is so HAPPY. He's at home again!

"jiang cheng, I am back!"

"..."

jc is so confused that stares at him, unimpressed. He doesn't know this wwx, but he has heard how weird he can be. Still, his inventions are amazing and useful and he is lwj's husband, and lwj is important to lxc... He can't be rude, he has to maintain a good relationship with the Lan. "I didn't know that wei-xiansheng has already been at Lotus Pier before, but I am glad to host such honorable guests. I would say to make yourself at home, but you have already done it forgetting formality", he sneers and wwx is confused. What the fuck jc?! Do you want formalities?! I beat your ass so many times, do you want me to bow to you???

Before wwx can say something, jc calls his second in command and Meng Yao arrives. He escorts them, under jc's order, to their guest room.

wwx is so confused that he lets it happen. Then, he asks his husband what the fuck is happening. Why is meng yao here? Isn't he dead? lwj is worried about his husband' deteriorating memory, but he answers. He would do everything for his husband. But then wei ying's face goes white, then red, then purple! Is wei ying sick?????? He needs to find a good healer to help his husband!! So he leaves the room with an excuse.

In the meantime, wwx is fuming! MY killed shijie!!! He killed jzx, shijie, 2000 people, then comes back (how?? Idk. plot. plot), and JC LET HIM AT LOTUS PIER. JC WHAT THE FUCK!! YOU COULDN'T STAND MY SIGHT FOR ONE SECOND, NOW YOU LET MENG YAO IN!! BASTARD.

It's unacceptable! He needs to fix things!!! He has to, if jc doesn't!!! He goes to jc's personal pavilion ('see, meng yao, I know lotus pier! Even better than you!' he mocks MY speech and suggestions about lotus pier's best inns).

When he arrives, - he sneaks really, now lotus pier has an hell of security system, he almost got caught! That never happened to him before! - he sees jc, MY AND jl eating at a low table. All together. Happily.

WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK? JL EVEN YOU! THE BETRAYAL! wwx knows that jl in the other universe forgives him (he is shijie' son, at the end of the day) but jgy's too???? Now???? jgy wasn't stabbed by jl! What right does he have to sit at his side?!?! And jl and wwx's relationship was still fragile, they were still working on trust and shit like that, what's the easy way they talk???? JC STOP PEALING LOTUS SEEDS FOR MY TOO. ONLY JL CAN HAVE THEM.

Unfortunately wwx is caught by the jiang disciples. They brings him to jc and wwx snaps: "jc what the fuck?!?! He killed shijie!!! You should be skinning him alive not feeding him!! Or just whipping him because you are boring. Whatever. But what the fuck?!"

And jc gets mad, but not 'wwx has pissed me off but it will pass'mad or 'I am rightfully even if unfairly mad about shijie and the peacock' bodies 'mad. No, he is 'you are pissing me off and I would kill you without thoughts - but REALLY KILL you'mad.

jl snaps "how dare you talk about my mother like that?! Do you wanna die???"

And jc" mister wei has overstepped his stay and bounds. I'll forget it for the sake of our clans, just this one time. Nonetheless, what happens to meng yao is a jiang family matter"

Lwj arrives and apologizes in wwx's stead. Then lwj drags him out of lotus pier. wwx is confused and angry. What is lwj doing?? He explains to his husband that jgy's the devil! He is bad and mean and a cunning manipulator! He killed wrh! He killed nmj! He killed jgs!

But lwj is even more worried: yes, Meng Yao - who is jgy? - killed wrh, but both jgs and nmj are still alive. Maybe wei ying is tired. Lwj is so worried about his husband's memory.

No one,- lsz, wn, ljy- believes him... And it's just as before, when he was all alone against the world, where no one believes him or in him... The food is tasteless, the world seems again to not have a place for him... His home isn't his home anymore...

But wwx has shit to fix! He needs to help jc and jl to see jgy's real nature! HE NEEDS TO FIX THINGS

And that's the fic:

jc's unmovable love for his family plus jl's good heart plus jgy cunning scheming vs. wwx inability to handle jc's emotions (indifference is unacceptable! How does jc dare to forget wwx?) plus his exaggerated reactions

#sorry i got carried away #But I would love a fic like that #Imo things will degenerate #And not in wwx's favor #He was easily manipulated by jgs - even if he was traumatized as hell. But still #See imo jgy is even more smart and cunning than his father #He has political awareness he can shift a situation in his favor #And he has jc wrapped around his finger #He has the upper hand!#Into my mind wwx dies again maybe taking down with him at least 300 people #Then he wakes up and he is alive again! Without thinking too much he runs to lotus pier from the cloud recess even with this weak core #He arrives half dead slurring things like: 'jc stops. jc no I killed shijie. It's me who you are mad at. He is scum. Leave him'#jc is confused but concerned : isn't lwj taking proper care of wwx? Let him run like that! Everything could have happened to him without #a strong core!#Then jc hears : 'I am back...'#And he is immediately 'YEAH YOU ARE BACK'#Then he takes wwx and starts to fuss over him giving him spicy soup and lotus seeds #And wwx understands that maybe the first time he wasn't talking to jc but he was avoiding him #The other jc has said that he will support jgy because he is his family. no matter what happened in the past.#And maybe this jc thinks the same. He is fussing over him he is scolding him again as if he cares about wwx #And after what seems almost 3 lifetimes wwx is at home again

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leatherbookmark · 1 year

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actually i have discovered the only true and correct reading of md/zs: wgxn are the true Evil Men of mdzs. just look at how they’re dealing with lxc post-guanyin

#'how' = not at all.#it's almost unbelievable how little wwx cares about lxc now that the whole case is over #it's just a fun puzzle for him to solve which isn't necessarily a criticism of him as a character because boy howdy do i Know that he's not #some kinda bleeding heart. but he just... basically explains everything at the end like a triumphant detective in a classic mystery novel #and you have lxc. having JUST found out that jgy was Obviously provoked into violence and that the only reason he went to the temple #instead of making a beeline to the nearest port was to pick up his mother's remains. he's heartbroken and confused #and even the narration is almost cruel in its 'well if jgy's best friend doesn't know then how could the others know?' and then wwx goes #'welp! gotta call people and take care of this coffin mess i think!'#AND THEN wgxn just casually decide not to reveal the VITAL (for lxc) information about jgy to him. because it would make him look #sympathetic. just tell him if he asks lz! i'm soooo tired of this bullshit u_u #what is he supposed to ask about you soggy banana. 'hey didi is there something you didn't tell me about jgy?' like this? like this?#bastards BASTARDS i say. and then they go on to fuck in the bushes without hearing the boring and annoying gossip from the jianghu!#brother? ah forget him. wwx's butt won't fuck itself we've got a busy day ahead #hashtag wgxn hateposting i do what i want it's my blog #like. i understand Dignity and stuff and lwj probably couldn't and wasn't even the type to hug his brother in public and go 'there there'#but he doesn't. he doesn't do a thing. at all #the only thing he says to lxc is 'jgy's killing intent.' that's it. at least in cql he leads him out of the temple and #physically supports him. here? nothing. lxc is repeatedly described as 'not realizing what had happened' 'lost in thought' 'startled'#and even 'in normal circumstances zewu-jun would have immediately understood it'. he is Mentally Unwell. but that's his problem because #he liked the guy we decided was a villain. 😬#shut up shrimp #(i know the bushes of love didn't happen /immediately/ post-guanyin (imagine that though.) but they're fucking haunting me)

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llycaons · 1 year

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lwj is poorly suited towards being cc in everything but principle, but I’ve seen people put forward jc as a better option and I definitely think he would be more of a disaster. at least lwj demonstrably cares about non-cultivators, and he has a large support system in his sect

#and depending on how much you think wwx contributes he has a direct connection to someonw who understands better than most how commoners liv #lwj may be a poor socializer and he may have conflicting loyalties but jc?#that man barely has the emotional maturity and control over his behavior to be a functioning adult #he may have been trained to negotiate and run a sect from a young age but we never really see much support for his actual skill in it #he def doesn't have the people skills or charisma #I mean. he's scary he can intimidate others #but his penchant for extreme and premeditaed cruelty would concern me #also he's not really close to anyone so the extra responsibilities would be hard tp bear on his own #and I do not think that man needs even more focus on work #plus when has he ever cared about the greater cultivation world or anyone outside his immediate circle #like given the circumstances I understand his choices for the most part but its not like he's going to win an award for humanitarian efforts #jgy really was the perfect choice outside of being evil #but I support lxc as lwj's successor #nhs is definitely capable but I don't think a lot of people trust him #well at least the juniors are growing up. make lan jingyi cc 2k23 #joke but I do love him as sect leader #cql txp

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lgbtlunaverse · 4 months

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It seems the dash has been talking about the Lan Xichen - Nie Huaisang post-canon dynamics and it's gotten me thinking about how discussion around post-canon Lan Xichen's absolutely horrendous mental state often center around the question of "who is Lan Xichen angry at and who does he feel guilty about" which, at its worst, seperates into 2 camps where according to one side he feels guilty about not protecting jgy and hates the Nies and, on the other side he has completely flipped on jgy and despises him now while being filled with regret towards both nmj and nhs.

And I dislike both of these takes not just because it often feels like people projecting their own Blorbo opinions onto Lan Xichen which is never a fun time but also because that central question is flawed to begin with. It treats anger and guilt like opposing emotions that can't coexist or, if they do, have to compete until one wins and cancels the other out.

And that's not how that... works.

To be clear, the reason why Lan Xichen is so supremely fucked up at the end of the story is that he believes on some level he fucked over everyone in this situation. And, even more importantly, that even with hindsight he can't actually think of what he should have done instead. Every attempt to do better by one seems to involve fucking over the others even more because these people were in conflict with each other and choosing one would mean standing against another

And none of this would actually stop him from feeling angry at any of them. It's not "who is he angry at and who does he feel guilty about" it's: "he is angry at everyone and feels an immediate and bone deep guilt for daring to think badly of them."

Speaking from personal experience here, but feeling like you're not allowed to be angry at someone because you wronged them really doesn't stop the feeling, it just maks you feel like shit for feeling it. And this is all worsened by the fact that what he's in seclusion for is, at the end of the day, a moral question of what he, Lan Xichen, did wrong and every single emotion serves as further proof of the ways he's failed them.

Is he angry at Jin Guangyao, for killing his oldest friend, using Lan xichen's trust in him to do it, and then lying to him about it and countless other things for a decade when Lan Xichen thought of him as the person he trusted the most in the entire world? Yeah. That's a thing people get angry about! Except Jin Guangyao also saved his life and protected and helped him more times than he can count and never ever hurt him and can Lan Xichen say the same? No. He had to clean A-Yao's blood off Shouyue, he has to be haunted by the fact that if he just hadn't listened to Huaisang- hadn't been just like everyone else, in the end, and believed a lie about Jin Guangyao just to think the worst of him- then Jin Guangyao might still be alive.

Is he angry at Huaisang? For orchestrating the death of his best friend? For making him do it? For knowing what the real cause behind Nie Mingjue's death was and never telling him until he found out in the absolute worst way? Absolutely. But didn't Huaisang hide it from him for a reason? Wasn't it his clan's techniques and his personal faith in Jin Guangyao that cost Huaisang his brother? How dare he demand that Huaisang let him in on the secret of his brother's murderer when Lan Xichen is here wondering about how he should have protected that murderer better!

And I do even think he's angry at Nie Mingjue, sometimes I think it's pretty normal to be angry at your friend for kicking your other friend down the stairs and threatening to kill him, even when you know his mind is being poisoned. And years later the last thing he ever saw of Nie Mingjue was Nie Mingjue's thoughtless corpse coming to kill him before Jin Guangyao pushed him away and then proceeded to graphocally snap Jin Guangyao's neck in front of him. And if what he wants to do is protect Jin Guangyao, shouldn't he be mad at Mingjue? Didn't this whole mess start because Jin Guangyao was afraid Nie Mingjue was going to kill him?

Except holy shit, can you imagine? Lan Xichen feels like he personally has Nie Mingjue's blood on his hands. Your oldest friend is killed in front of you and you happily believe it's an accident for 11 years and now you think you have the right to be mad at him? You watched him get worse as he was being poisoned and attributed it to his illness and not to the techniques stolen from your library with the token you give his murderer. Does he think Nie Mingjue knew who he was in that moment and wanted to kill him? That he blamed Lan Xichen for his death? (For the record, I don't. I don't agree with most of what Lan Xichen thinks about himself, but I've been in a self-blame spiral and I know how it feels)

But what was he supposed to do then? Choose Mingjue's side and let A-Yao die? That's also unacceptable. But so is letting Jin Guangyao get away with it. Every single outcome is unacceptable. And really, if Jin Guangyao felt like he had to kill Nie Mingjue to save himself, when it was Lan Xichen who was supposed to keep the peace between them, isn't that another mark of his failure? That he couldn't protect Jin Guangyao well enough that he felt he had to do something so horrible?

But that's not an answer! He's supposed to know what he should have done different, and all he can come up with is "what you were already doing, but without failing this time" He can't pick a side because that means betrayal, but he's already tried not picking a side and it ended like this! There is no right answer, which can only leave him with the idea that he was simply doomed to hurt the people he loved from the start. No wonder the guy looks like shit when we see him post-canon. They put him in a real life trolley problem and gave him the lever as a souvenir.

#mdzs #mdzs meta #lan xichen #nie huaisang #jin guangyao #meng yao #nie mingjue #personally i LOVE high stakes ethical dilemma tragedies where there's not a clear right or wrong #and i can enjoy them without picking a side because it's fiction to me and i can admire the complex web of love hurt and betrayal from afar #but this is lan xichen's actual life. he HAS to have an answer to this question in a way I don't #but there isn't one

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fincalinde · 6 months

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I see you have done some really thoughtful metas. What're your thoughts on Nie Mingjue? IMO he's a lot more complicated than he's usually assumed to be...

One of my classic absurdly late ask responses! Glad you enjoy the meta.

I think NMJ occupies a fascinating place in the narrative, because his ultimate fate is inevitable despite the fact that he theoretically has more agency than most (all?) of the rest of the main cast.

For a start he becomes clan leader at a young age, and while that comes with its pressures it's undeniably an influential position. He's the leading general of the Sunshot Campaign. Then, after the Sunshot Campaign, the Nie and the Jin are by some margin the most powerful clans. So, in a political sense NMJ has immense power. In theory he has the ability to make far better choices. He could stop persecuting JGY, who literally has no choice but to follow his father's orders, and he could choose to focus his ire where it belongs: on JGS. And he could also choose to counter JGS in ways that don't push the jianghu back to the brink of another devastating war.

Except he can't make those choices. And I want to make a strong distinction here: he is not like other characters such as JGY or LXC or JC, whose choices are limited by their clear understanding of their own limitations and the political landscape (including but not limited to the fact that a post-Sunshot descent into war between the Nie and the Jin would be catastrophic). No. NMJ's choices are limited because by the end of the Sunshot Campaign his mental capacity is irreversibly compromised.

Not only is NMJ terminally ill, but we're given clear examples of contrast between NMJ early in Sunshot and NMJ late- and post-Sunshot. Pre-Sunshot NMJ understands the Wen have political and cultivation power that utterly outclasses him and his clan, so he stands by and tolerates their existence. He knows it would be suicide to go up against them, and it's only when the Wen cross a line and all the clans unite that he's able to actually do anything about the fact that WRH murdered his father.

Contrast that to NMJ by the end of Sunshot, so irrationally obsessed with JGY that he's willing to jeopardise the hard-won (and fragile) stability of the jianghu by trying to kill him. Reminder: when NMJ kicks JGY down the stairs, he starts to follow him down with the express intent of killing him. As in, he fully intends to murder the legitimate son of his main political rival and an immensely powerful clan leader on the steps of his own home. That is ludicrous. Pre-Sunshot NMJ wouldn't have done something like that for his own beloved father, let alone for a grudge.

All of NMJ's flaws are obvious from the earliest point of his timeline: he's proud, he's inflexible, he's righteous but he's hypocritical. But early on we see examples of NMJ bending a little, of recognising nuance and showing, in his own inelegant way, his compassionate side. By the end, that's gone. The fan-burning incident alone (the fantrum!) demonstrates it. That's the way he treats his beloved didi, never mind how he treats his san-di.

Of course the narrative claims JGY can always talk NMJ round, but it's simply not true. In the end, the only way JGY can preserve himself is by making NMJ a promise he can't keep (to deliver XY's head) in order to buy himself enough time for NMJ to die and no longer be an immediate mortal threat. If JGY had not accelerated NMJ's decline, NMJ would have killed him and plunged the jianghu into another needless conflict.

I've spilled ink on the staircase scene already so I'm holding back on digging into this in more detail, but the fact is any discussion of NMJ's downfall is inextricably tangled up with JGY. The focal point of NMJ's descent is his obsession with JGY in particular, and it's important to remember what's relevant is not so much what JGY has or hasn't done but how NMJ treats him.

I do think one of the best ways to put it in context is to compare the way NMJ reacts to WRH to the way he reacts to JGY. WRH literally kills NMJ's father but NMJ has a cool enough head to know he has to bide his time. JGY on the other hand absolutely does betray NMJ's trust, in a situation where, again, if he does as NMJ wants (turns himself in) he's going to end up dead. And from that moment on, NMJ has no intention of giving JGY the benefit of the doubt. Yes, after LXC intervenes (remember, JGY would be dead without that intervention!) NMJ backs off and ends up agreeing to the sworn brotherhood, but he enters into the brotherhood in entirely the wrong spirit, seeing it as a way to monitor and subjugate JGY, who is already answerable to his father over and above any obligations to an elder brother.

Would NMJ at fifteen years old have listened to LXC and JGY's explanations in Qishan or later on the stairs at Golden Carp Tower? Possibly. But we don't have any examples of a time when he truly listened to JGY, and he was always going to end up this way regardless, taken out by a qi deviation and turned into the stuff of nightmares. JGY accelerated an existing process to save his own skin, but he didn't invent it out of whole cloth. So the tragedy of NMJ is not what JGY did to him. It goes back further than that, to when his ancestors first started cultivating the resentful energy of beasts.

Even then, contrasting NMJ to another character is illuminating. The text tells us NHS is in a bind: if he cultivates with his sabre, he's dooming himself. But if he doesn't cultivate with his sabre, he's pissing off his ancestors. The instinct then is perhaps to think—poor NMJ! He's in the same bind!

But NMJ never has a moment's doubt about sabre cultivation. NMJ knows the price and he pays it without question. NMJ doesn't agonise about how to balance his duty to his clan and his ancestors against his desire to not go violently insane. He accepts it as a fact of life and never thinks to question it or push back against it. He marches down the path that extirpates all his good qualities and leads straight to his worst self, and never so much as glances around in the hope of sighting a different way.

Again we're getting to that tension I find most interesting about NMJ: agency rubbing shoulders with inevitability. NHS finds a way to lead his clan and Word of God become Xiandu without cultivating with his sabre. Does that mean NMJ is responsible for his choices and he can't be absolved of his actions by blaming his inheritance? I don't necessarily have an answer for that, but I hugely enjoy exploring the question.

#ask #eastofakkala #i have so many nmj thoughts you don't even know #put that man under a microscope #my heart's so hardened i cannot repent!#roquen meta

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winepresswrath · 6 months

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hi! i always love your MDZS/CQL takes; can i ask what are the questions you think CQL is asking, as compared to MDZS?

I haven't actually revisited either canon in ages, which is making me nervous. what questions the novel is interested in can be pretty contentious all on its own! @mikkeneko has an excellent answer in the notes here which I reccomend to everyone. My own thoughts are honestly pretty scattered- I keep on deleting things and going hm, that's not quite right.

So, for the obvious-to-me example, people reasonably zero in on the creation of innocent doctors/radish farmers who Wen Ruohan is holding hostage. In CQL it's easy to infer that Wen Qing and Wen Ning are maybe the only cultivators and almost certainly the only combatants among the Wen remnants, and their status is much more ambiguous in the novel, which I personally think is asking, essentially, "and so what? were they wrong to run, when they had a chance? Do they deserve what Jin Guangshan will do to them if they go back? Aren't they just people, actually?" Whereas the question that CQL is asking is more to the effect of "What does Wen Qing owe these people, when she is their only defence? What is she entitled to do to save them, at other people's expense? If she fucks up that moral calculus, what then? Does it matter if she's personally fond of some of the outsiders who are going to get hurt? If one of them saved her brother? Later, this question will flip to what Wei Wuxian and Jiang Cheng, and the parallel to Jiang Cheng's situation in particular is, I think, genuinely pretty fun. You're giving up the Wen as soldiers who've laid down their arms in exchange for Wen Qing also grappling with leadership and the question of how many horrors she can stand to look the other way on to protect her own people. one reason I keep deleting so much is that a lot cql's changes were motivated at least in part by censorship, which I think we mostly share a general and justified distaste for! but I also think that within the bounds of that censorship the creative team put a lot of work into actually doing something interesting with those changes. Or, for another example- nieyao! There's a much greater emphasis on the nmj-jgy relationship, it's unambiguously very close and they are clearly extremely important to one another, and I think that's because the cql team has a lot to say about love, trust, power, and the ways those things interact, and that reflects back on all of the other relationships in play, including Wangxian. Almost every time, when CQL chooses change a relationship they make the characters in question closer- that's true for Jiang Cheng and Lan Wangji, for Wen Qing and the Yunmeng contingent, for Zixuan and Mianmian, and Huaisang and Meng Yao. It's even true for Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian, who have a close and trusting relationship in first life! CQL puts a much greater emphasis on "all right, so you care, what next?" How do you choose someone and then choose to be good to them? What if there's a massive power disparity between you? What if you seriously disagree about your priorities and morals? How do you trust someone who's betrayed you? When is it a stupid choice to trust at all? How do you have faith that you know someone well enough for that trust to be meaningful?

for legal reasons i would like to specify that it's not that mdzs isn't interested in these problems. i do remember wangxian's literal trust fall. cql is asking these questions all the time about everyone. also for legal purposes i'm not suggesting that cql lwj and jc love each other. but! they establish a three month wartime partnership looking for wwx and then jc immediately drops him on wwx's say-so despite apparently having a positive enough opinion of him to tell wwx he thinks they should make up twice. lan wangji will later tell wwx he thinks he should loop jc in on the second flautist! these are people trying to navigate some kind of relationship/shared interest/community, as opposed to a hateful void. cql wants to say hey, how do you go about this? while I'm here and rambling cql also puts a lot of emphasis on wwx's connection to yunmeng and changes things up so instead of feeling alienated right before he leaves our last glimpse of him there is happily picking lotuses and playing with a kid! in both stories the narrative is asking who do you protect? who do you leave behind? can you ever get it back? but the angles are very different.

#why are there so many people who simultaneously argue that cql dumbs down mdzs and also that mdzs is the slow reveal of how wwx is a #perfect angel who has never done anything wrong in his life #being let down by everyone around him #surely you have to pick an option #but lan wangji and wei wuxian being close friends in the first life really does change everything #i have seen people (reasonably) be annoyed with this as an adaptation choice #but! i like this change a lot and i think they do interesting things with it #There's still a lot of emphasis on what makes them so particularly perfect for each other but imo moving Lan Wangji into the category of #people wwx loved in the first life #shifts the focus from #when will they get together #to #What it would take and what would they have to do for these people to have to do to have a successful partnership?#If loving someone is the first step what comes next? Who do I want to be to the people around me?#i love the focus on wwx's trust issues as trust issues! problems that he's had with lwj specifically before!#and the solution isn't just oh well lwj is perfectly trustworthy #though that's obviously part of it #wwx has to like. decide for himself to do some things differently this time around in order to reap the rewards of being really in it with #someone. and lwj does too! it's a journey they're on together #i have simply rambled in all directions i'm sorry anon

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symphonyofsilence · 1 year

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does Jin Guangyao play a villainous role in Wei WuXian’s story? yes. but is he also the Narrative’s special boy? also, yes.

I don’t remember the post, but the fact that Wei Wuxian, and by extinction, the narrative sympathizes with Jin Guangyao has already been brought up. He draws a comparison between himself and JGY when the crowd suddenly turns against JGY in Lotus Pier and wants WWX to deal with him, and again when the other Sect Leaders led by Sect leader Yao assume that the Guanyin statue is made to resemble JGY himself ‘cause he’s a narcissist, and when people are saying nasty things about JGY in a tavern after his death.

but another way in which the narrative sympathizes with JGY is that every time JGY is shown doing a shitty thing, it’s immediately followed by him being shown in a situation in which he is a victim, or has done something good.

he paralyzes Qin Su after she finds out some horrible truths about him and hides her in the creepy room where WWX finds JGY’s sworn brother’s head? A chapter or an episode after that we see him being trash-talked and cast out by other Nie soldiers when they’re drinking the water he brought, while he’s doing thrice the work they’re doing. we see him cleaning the battlefields and helping the commoners after battles, we see him voluntarily do the work of the servants as a deputy general when they lack staff, and pour people tea, while they rudely clean their cups when they take it from his hands (which NMJ does nothing about), we see him loyally arguing with LXC that he can't leave NMJ for his father’s sect after all NMJ has done for him, and learn that he has saved LXC. CQL shows him in his Meng Yao Era more. We see him repeatedly receive scorn when all he gives others is curtsey and smiles, we see beforehand the Nie Captain be an absolute bitch to him so I'm sure nobody in the audience regretted his loss, but even then we immediately get that jumping in front of NMJ and taking a stab to the chest to save him, and the teary banishment scene that cancels the "guy is now officially a scheming murderer" out.

He's being a bitch to NMJ in the Nightless City? He kills Wen Ruohan & turns out that he has been bravely spying for the Sunshot campaign all this time and they owe him their victory. But even then, he apologizes to NMJ, kneels down, and surrenders himself.

He's protecting Xue Yang? You have him explaining to NMJ why he can't go against his father's wishes, and how he's scared of everything and everyone because he was never given the luxury of safety, status & power, so he can practice that power freely. In the end, NMJ offends his mother and kicks him down the stairs (which he's well aware is a trauma for JGY). Which honor-bound ancient man wouldn't have killed the man who disrespected his mother and kicked him down the stairs? What would have NMJ done had this been done to him? But even then, in the book, the narrative does even more to make JGY sympathetic, LXC comes to NMJ to calm him down, and he says that JGY's in a difficult situation right now. His stepmother beats him & his father doesn't listen to anything he says anymore. Otherwise, he wouldn't have talked back to NMJ. & after that, NMJ's qi deviation happens when he drops eaves on this conversation between LXC & JGY:

I mean if you've tried to murder him thrice, shoved him down the stairs, & called him a whoreson, taken any opportunity to scold him, & you don't like it when he talks back to you, at least let him talk behind your back. He's not even lying or being disrespectful or anything.

He retaliates against WWX & LWJ’s attack by showing WWX as a villain and the way he has killed NMJ comes to light? a few chapters later WWX is surprised that JGY hasn’t visited LXC to demand a search but to tell him that he has prevented everyone from searching the CR and thinks it’s best if LXC, whenever it’s convenient for him opens the doors of the CR so JGY can get this search over with and shut the other sects up. And reassures him that he won’t let LWJ’s reputation be tarnished in any way. (At the stairs of Jinlintai, JGY knew fully well that LWJ was doing what he was doing because he was in love with WWX, as we learn at the Guanyin temple, but he loudly suggested that LWJ is being deceived in front of the crowd to save LXC's brother reputation.) The Donghua even has a wartime flashback from a young Meng Yao saving LXC, feeding him, hiding him, washing his clothes, getting beaten up by the Wen soldiers to keep LXC safe, and even then bringing back food for him with a smile.

He takes everyone hostage, twice (his hostages are children the first time) and is at the peak of his villain moment? You have the whole Guanyin temple thing happening. (which, personally for me, was what really elevated him from an interesting character to my poor little mew mew in my eyes.)

When JGY kneels down, WWX feels uncomfortable. He feels embarrassed on his behalf:

the same effect of inducing pity & sympathy for him is achieved in the show by somber music swelling in this scene, reaction shots, slow-mo, and a wide-shot of everyone in the temple as JGY kneels down to make him look especially small, while almost 2/3 of the shot is of the candles of the Guyanin temple. in the exposition scene when LXC kneels down to hear JGY out, the statue of Guanyin is between them. THE LOCATION OF ALL OF JGY TRAGIC EXPOSITIONS IS A GYANYIN TEMPLE! The temple of the bodhisattva of mercy who is considered to be the physical embodiment of compassion!

And the sympathetic reaction shots when he talks about JGS continue throughout the scene.

then we learn that he had to marry Qin Su because she was already pregnant and he didn’t want QS & JRS to have his and his mother’s fate and that the reason they had to rush things through like this and conceive a child was that JGS might have further caused problems for their marriage because he really disliked his son. and that if a political fall-out happened between Jin & the Qin clan, JGY would get the burn of it. (still a shitty act, but you can’t help but understand where he’s coming from & pity him), he goes on about his father kicking him down the stairs of Jinlintai on his birthday while celebrating JZX’s birthday, we learn about his childhood in the brothel, about JGS saying that he could save Meng Shi but he didn’t ‘cause she would be too much trouble, and that their son wasn’t worth mentioning, we see JGY & SMS deep connection, the show gives us some very good Xiao Shushu & A-Ling moments, & even though it’s been always clear & is especially clear during the whole Guanyin temple scene, we see truly see the depth of love, respect, and loyalty JGY has toward LXC.

We see him in the Villainous Friends chapter telling Xue Yang that he can vandalize people's shops and restaurants for no reason, only under the condition that he doesn't wear the Jin uniform. But it's immediately followed by the mention of the bruise on his head given to him by his stepmother because she can't vent her anger on her cheating husband, who JGY has to retrieve from brothels every night to ensure his safe stay in Jinlintai for another day. We see him massacre the He sect, and right after that, he goes to retrieve his father from the brothel and hears those awful things and you can't help but sympathize with him.

Because what is really important is that you understand Jin Guangyao. There are about 14 chapters in the book and 4 episodes in the show of JGY explaining himself while crying on the floor because it's less about "Jiggy eVIL" & more about look what the society who turned his back on him & his mother when they needed their help, and sneered at them when they tried to improve their situation, and never forgave JGY for being born has done to this man to make him do such horrendous deeds. (And his sword's name is Hensheng. Meaning "hate to be born". They made him never forgive himself for being born either.)

So by saying that X & Y has happened to JGY, and so what he does is for self-preservation, nobody's JUSTIFYING his genocides, & nobody's denying that JGY had a choice in everything he did. Even if his other option was to accept his place, sit down, shut up, and suffer in silence, NOT murdering a whole sect that includes children by doing experiments on them is the better option. The point is that it's not the point. JGY's atrocities are only means in the story to tell the cautionary tale of a classist, cruel society. The things that JGY has gone through cannot be erased from the conversations because "JGY EvIl. Periodt." The Narrative doesn't want the reader to do that! It's specifically structured to put the reason JGY's got to this point on the forefront every time he does a crime. The fight with NMJ's fierce corpse ends as quickly as it begins. The Climax of the story is mostly JGY's monologues. 14 chapters of monologues cannot be dismissed as JGY gaslighting LXC & shedding crocodile tears.

in a story that has Wei WuXian as a protagonist, and literally starts with the monster the society has made of him through rumors and has this theme going on through the rest of the story, especially with JC, and baseless accusations are the first thing that happens when JGY's secrets are out in the Lotus Pier, and then ends with society making a monster out of JGY after his death through rumors when Sect Leader Yao speculates that the statue's face is modeled after JGY himself (which WWX especially comments on), and in the tavern when people made such crude remarks that even those who were participating in the conversation felt uncomfortable, I think it's clear what and who the real villain is.

MXTX could have written people talking about literally any real atrocity that JGY has done, but instead, they talk about what he hasn’t done and read the worst out of his every action in life.

And actually, with everything that JGY has been through, he’s not even the worst case that could come out of his situation. He did have good intentions. For all his genocides, unlike Xue Yang, he didn't actually want to see the world burn. He did help the innocent common folk. He helped them during the sunshot campaign, and with the watchtowers, he fought against systematic corruption, and he treated everyone with respect. He rescued LXC and QS. We don’t know how many others he has personally saved. It's that the means he had to use to have the power to help the poor was incredibly dirty because he was playing an unfair game that was especially designed against him. (I'm not saying helping the poor was his only objective when he tried to gain his father's approval and a secure place in Jinlintai for himself. Though it's sad that he had to fight for these things at all.) The best he could honorably do was be NMJ's deputy general, which didn't save him from being bullied and people cleaning the cups they took from his hands. He knew that if he tried to help the innocent without having the political power to do that, he would end up like WWX. But what he didn’t know was that he would end up like that if he, unlike WWX, played by the rules of the game and compromised his morals anyway. There was no winning for people like them.

Dismissing the good that JGY has done, the real desire he had for helping the poor, and what he’s been through cheapens the character, cheapening JGY’s character to a one-dimensional Marvel villain, and dismissing the commentary that he represents on society as a whole is a disservice to the story. And that’s a crime cause the story is great.

his fall from grace, the heinous acts he had to commit to find himself the slightest bits of safety, security, and respect wouldn’t be that much of a tragedy if he didn’t want to be good and do good for people.

Then there is JGY's death and the framing of it. Here is a wonderful analysis by @sapphicdalliances of why his death wasn't justice and that was the point, how he died because of an act he didn't commit, and here are great analysis by @thatswhatsushesaid & @crithir about how his death is described as a gut-wrenching horrible scene framed through his horrified nephew & ward's eyes, both in the book and in the show, how it didn't bring the Nie brothers any closure either, and how through the lenses of LXC and JL, and by JC’s & WWX’s reaction we see his death as a tragedy.

His death is because of a dishonorable trick. His last act in life, pushing LXC away is an act of love and of forgiveness. In the CQL before that, he pushes Jin Ling out of danger, too.

As said in the aforementioned posts, after it, we don't see a victorious Nie Huaisang or Wei WuXian. In fact, neither of them is victorious.

WWX, and by extension, the narrative blames NHS for his scheming & risking innocent lives. WWX is especially appalled by NHS' treatment of Meng Shi's body. He points out that JGY, being a big liar with a considerable criminal record, will be forever accused of lying, no matter what. While he immediately after brings JGY's last genuine act toward LXC as proof that JGY couldn't have been lying.

In the CQL, he straight-up calls NHS the devil with the coldest tone he's ever had towards NHS.

NHS for his part doesn't seem victorious either.

Dare I say he even looks like despite years of scheming he was not ready for it when JGY pushes Shuoyue deeper inside his own chest. (Who would he be acting for at that moment? Nobody's looking at him. And he’s sweating!)

And I think there's a "no, he didn't" in his last "I don't know." To LXC (at least in the show) when he's insistently asked whether JGY was going to attack LXC or not and he insistently answers "I don't know". It's a confirmation without confirmation.

And then in, IMHO, one of the most beautiful and nuanced scenes, NHS finds A-Yao's hat, in the book, he bends down, picks it up, and quietly goes away (and that's the last we see of Nie Huaisang), in the show he wipes off the dust on it, and his hand finally gets bloodied, literally & metaphorically despite trying his best to not do his dirty work himself. And we get a flashback of A-Yao's childhood that I always assumed we're seeing through NHS because maybe JGY had told him that story. Not only does the order of the scene, combined with NHS' deep in thought look seem like it but also NHS cleans JGY's hat when in that memory A-Yao's mom tells him that he needs to take good care of his hat.

And that scene is especially beautiful because the show went out of its way to show their close relationship pre-time skip. And we see NHS keep A-Yao's principal by cleaning his hat when JGY himself is too dead to do that. Even when the reason for his death is NHS himself. And by NHS getting his hands bloodied while cleaning the hat, and staring at it with a deep, nuanced look, that combination of care & hatred is shown in that scene.

I think he feels empty. He's spent years after years planning this thing. It was his only drive. Now it's over. And it wasn't a grand, victorious moment. It just...happened. and it was something that needed to happen, in his eyes.

And he did love his san-ge for a long, long time before the betrayal came to light for him. And then he hated him for a long, long time. But at that moment with JGY's bloodied hat in his hand? I think that's the moment when love and hatred have both run their passionate course and they've finally reached each other in the middle and collided and ran out of strength and intensity and separate, clear meaning and they just take their exhausted leave together, leaving only a trace behind.

And most prominently we see a devastated LXC and JL. We see Jin Ling's flashback of when his Xiao Shushu gave him his spiritual puppy. We see him being the only one who could cheer JL up when he was down for days.

We see JL choosing to keep loving him despite everything.

His loss is felt and the memory of his good deeds keeps coming back in JL's narrative:

The Narrative doesn't just sympathize with him. The Narrative mourns him.

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poorlittleyaoyao · 1 year

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Actually I find very fitting how women are treated in mdzs. Mdzs's world is homophobic, classicist and misogynistic. Imo Mdzs's world represents the worst of the real world, so I find very suitable that in a patriarch/misogyny society where reputation is what matter the most, women payed the consequences of men's choices. The fact that they have no agency makes their stories even more tragic (like Greek heroines) imo. I've read historical novels from a very youth age, so I am accustomed to this. (disclaimer : that doesn't mean that I am not frustrated with the narrative or our assholes as wwx wn etc... ). What makes me very upset is how fans treat mdzs's women! Wq is not a Mean Lesbian, who is just wwx's best friend. jyl is not just wwx's mom or, even worst, a badass kickass (she is ill! She can't cultivate! Madam yu would love to have a badass daughter, but she can't! She has a chronic illness!!! ). And madam yu reminds me so much of Medea but she doesn't have the same hype. These women are trapped two times : firstly by the narrative and then by fans and I find myself less tolerant towards the latter

When I saw this ask yesterday, my gut response to the comparison between Greek tragedies and MDZS was to be like "no!! it's not the same!!" But I couldn't immediately identify why I felt that way. All the works that have given me lasting brainworms are historical tragedies with mostly-male casts and moral complexity. Everything I vibe with can be traced in some way back to getting fixated on the Trojan War, MDZS/CQL included. So what's different? I have been pondering it ever since then. So thank you, anon, for making me think!

For me, I think what it comes down to is that the issues you mentioned--the classism, the homophobia, and the misogyny--aren't actually explored within the text itself. The in-universe homophobia primarily manifests itself as people saying slurs at Wangxian. There is no external pressure to enter into heterosexual unions and have children to ensure a line of succession (3/4 of the sect leaders are unmarried after the timeskip, after all), nor is there the internal conflict of unpacking internalized homophobia. Classism is examined more with JGY's whole deal, but when the only character pointing out the flaws in the status quo is the Crimes Man, it muddles the message somewhat.

As to the misogyny... with the notable exception of QS, none of the women in MDZS die for reasons that relate to in-universe inequality. YZY, A-Qing, WQ, and JYL all die making the active choice to protect someone or something. Taken individually, all of their deaths make sense. The problems is when you take them as a whole, and you realize that the mortality rate for women in the series is off the chain. Below is a list of all the named characters who show up for more than one scene in MDZS. Bolded characters live, struck-through characters die.

Wei Wuxian Jiang Yanli Jiang Cheng Yu Ziyuan Jiang Fengmian Wen Qing Lan Wangji Granny Wen Lan Xichen Wang Lingjiao Lan Qiren Madame Jin Lan Jingyi Qin Su Lan Sizhui Luo Qingyang Wen Ning A-Qing Wen Chao Wen Ruohan Wen Zhuliu Jin Zixuan Jin Ling Jin Guangshan Jin Zixun Jin Guangyao Nie Mingjue Nie Huaisang Xue Yang Xiao Xingchen Song Lan Su Minshan Ouyang Zizhen Sect Leader Ouyang Sect Leader Yao

That's bonkers! It's even worse if you don't count the dead characters who quote-unquote "deserved it" for murdering people, which changes the list to:

Wei Wuxian Jiang Yanli Jiang Cheng Yu Ziyuan Jiang Fengmian Wen Qing Lan Wangji Granny Wen Lan Xichen Madame Jin Lan Qiren Qin Su Lan Jingyi Luo Qingyang Lan Sizhui A-Qing Wen Ning Jin Zixuan Jin Ling Nie Mingjue Nie Huaisang Xiao Xingchen Song Lan Ouyang Zizhen Sect Leader Ouyang Sect Leader Yao

Again, the women's deaths each make sense individually, but as a trend, it's fucking wild, and that's what bothers me. There's no actual honest-to-god plot reason why the ratio has to be this way. Why can't Lan Qiren be a strict auntie? Why can't the juniors be a mixed-gender group? Additionally, there's the matter of how the deaths are treated. NMJ's death is the entire reason for the book; JZX's memory is invoked as much as JYL's. It's not that bad things happen to the women, it's that they're unnecessarily killed off at a disproportionate amount.

ALL THAT SAID. ALL THAT SAID!! You're absolutely right about fan treatment. One would think that these interesting women who don't get to take center stage in canon (and thus have a lot left to explore!) would be a GOLDMINE, but instead they're sanded down like you said. It must be ROUGH trying to find fic about JYL in particular, because so much of what she's tagged in is just her being WWX's Gentle Soup Sister in the background. Wangxian is far and away the biggest pairing WQ's tag--not just for MDZS, but for The Untamed, where she's a much bigger character! I sense that you're more charitable towards the canons than I am, anon, but at least the canons are honest about what they're about and aren't patting themselves on the back for their super progressive inclusion of a Mean Lesbian Friend or whatever.

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3cosmicfrogs · 4 months

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for the ask game: naybe an AU where LXC is not on the stairs at thaf JGY/NMJ confrontatiom but baxia Got Attached so she refuses to be like. Slammed down?? And nieyao js now awkwarsly staring at each other, because whay is happening

hmmmmm you propose an interesting scenario.... i guess this could fit into the More Sentient Baxia AU that Woob and i have fever-dreamed up? in that case, five headcanons of what would happen if baxia got Attached:

baxia does not want to kill the Searching-Wanting-Waiting-Watching Human. she likes him, he gives nice skritches. and he always surrounds himself with a delicious aura of almost-evil that she just itches to sink her teeth into and rip away from him... Plus, her master clearly likes him too, he just needs her to show him!

baxia has seen into her human's heart and decided that he needs to get laid, immediately. She will take the necessary steps to make this happen, because she is a Good Sabre! now that she's saved the Searching-Wanting-Waiting-Watching Human, she only needs to find a way to make her intentions clear to the Floating-Calming-Softly-Quietly Human... her best course of action is clearly to start hovering in his peripheral vision from what she is sure is her most seductive angle.

Misunderstandings! Misunderstandings everywhere! naturally, because they are grown adults, mingjue and meng yao cannot possibly have a conversation about this. they will continue to Agonise separately and entirely unproductively while Xichen looks on and sighs. All the while everyone is being terrorised by baxia. Eventually someone breaks (my bet is on xichen) and demands to know exactly what is going on?! and if you think the resulting argument anything is but a sarcastic word-duel you'd be wrong! again, because nieyao are mature, grown-ass adults about this who can totally handle their feelings.

"are you upset you couldn't follow through, da-ge?" "I swear this has never happened before! I usually perform just fine!" "that's alright, mingjue-xiong, maybe you were just stressed?" "yes, there's no reason to be embarassed, da-ge." "a-yao is right, i'm sure this sort of thing happens all the time...?" "well did it ever happen to either of you?!" "...no." "whatever! let's try again then, i'm sure i'll manage this time!" <- this conversation will be overheard by an outside character of your choosing (nhs perhaps?) to Maximum Comedic Effect.

When the Issues Are Being Resolved, mingjue is faced with the absolutely mortifying ordeal of explaining to his increasingly incredulous sworn brothers that yes, nie sabres do in fact sometimes talk to their masters, of course this is normal what are you talking about, and also his magical bloodthirsty weapon has decided that he really really needs a romantic relationship and picked xichen and meng yao. yes she's been tormenting him. they can try a relationship he supposes, just to satisfy the Magical Bloodthirsty Weapon of course, no feelings will arise surely, and if nothing comes of it she will back off. this is entirely unaided by huaisang, who keeps orchestrating bed shortages and feeding the three of them aphrodisiacs because he is convinced that his brother is suffering from erectile dysfunction.

I'm not very good at making coherent plots or headcanons as you can see, but i thrive in crack treated seriously, and so this is what this will be.

#mail from the beloved mutuals #3zun #sentient baxia #i really need to make some humanoid designs for her istg. i have like. ten billions ideas

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pieridae-art · 3 months

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Special Lan Xichen analysis post

As I’ve previously said, Lan Xichen is a very flawed person and that’s okay! I want to examine him at several parts of the story and pick apart some of the criticism he gets. So let’s talk Lan Xichen!

Siege of the Burial Mounds: I really like this one shot from the donghua where the Sect Leaders of each sect (NMJ, JGS, and JC) are shown at the siege and beside them representing the Lan sect is… Lan Qiren. Not LXC. Setting aside the perfect storm JGS set up for the siege to occur (I don’t care who led it; JGS is the problem post-Sunshot Campaign about 99% of the time), I think this is because LXC stayed back in the Cloud Recesses with LWJ tending to his wounds post-whipping. Not assuming LXC’s absence, however, the siege was led by JC and orchestrated (because separating the twin prides of Yunmeng and artificially creating tension within the jianghu was a deliberate action) by JGS. Not saying LXC’s participation is okay just because he wasn’t the driving force behind it but imagine if the Lan sect stood against the other sect’s wishes. Standing up for WWX would have been the right thing to do but were the Lans in any position to oppose the siege with their sect in the process of rebuilding? Going along with the siege, to me, is an act of cowardice, not malice. Extra note: we see his capability of defending the Wen remnants when JGS is talking shit about them and WWX but he is shut down immediately and does not speak up any further. This is not a matter of hypocrisy; it’s a matter of fearing the consequences.

NMJ’s death: this is rocky territory. It was a bad idea full stop to force proximity between them hoping everything would sort itself out. But you simply cannot blame him for NMJ’s death because he couldn’t have known. One could argue that he endangered JGY by forcing him to be near someone who tried to kill him several times. I think that’s an oversimplification of the situation. To me, this was a gesture of trust. Trust that NMJ will make an attempt to restrain himself/get better and trust that JGY will aid him in doing so. As we know, this trust is misguided. He’s rather naive to think this would work. But he is humored anyway by two people with bad intentions toward each other. LXC is not at fault for this going south when it was at a certain point inevitable. But he did enable it.

That one line about WWX being LWJ’s only mistake: I get so defensive because honestly I’d have said much worse in his position! Think about what he knows about Wangxian’s relationship leading up to it. He saw his brother devastated that the man he loved was being corrupted and harmed by his cultivation, watched as LWJ despaired over him and fought the elders and got whipped for him. He’s only seen his brother suffer due to his love for WWX. Was saying this okay? No. Consider the circumstances surrounding this line, however. Also criticizing him for this is just plain nit-picky to me lol there’s plenty this man has actually done wrong to criticize him for.

And another thing: stop saying he favored JGY over LWJ!! The entire point of his denial surrounding JGY is that there was no solid, tangible proof that was damning enough for him to outright condemn JGY without some level of unfair assumption! He was trying to be fair about the investigation! Might I add: WWX was the only one who saw NMJ’s head in Jinlintai. Had it been LWJ to see it and approach him I think the story would’ve gone differently! But it wasn’t. And he wanted to have faith in his friend from an underprivileged background constantly facing slander and mistreatment despite doing good things for the world against the jianghu’s wishes because isn’t that what LWJ did with WWX? LXC learned his lesson from WWX’s death, he just practiced it on the wrong person.

What have we learned? Lan Xichen was complicit in and enabled a lot of Bad Things if he was not an active participant, most of it willingly and some of it unknowingly. He’s unfair sometimes. He’s weak willed and lacks the strength to actually stand up for anyone in a meaningful way. He’s naive. In my opinion, he was in denial for a large portion of his story about the harmful effects of his actions.

And I adore him! He’s got the capacity for so much good and he fails to live up to it! He wants to be righteous and he doesn’t know how without putting the people he is responsible for at risk! He thinks he can do conflict resolution and he just can’t! By the end of the story, he is painfully aware of all of this and he lives knowing he did the wrong thing over and over and over again. He got the only outcome he could ever have. I don’t think he deserved his ending but I do think he might have earned it.

#mo dao zu shi #mdzs lan xichen #lan xichen #lan huan #mdzs meta #mdzs #mxtx #I LOVE HIM I LOVE HIM I LOVE HIM #he makes me autistically insane

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leatherbookmark · 2 years

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*insert your regular ‘ghrrrr why does this fandom think jgy is a closet bitch’ post*

#in particular: why do they think that he'd be bitchy /to lxc/ who would only tolerate it with an angelic expression aaaaugh #like. yes. 'being able to stop forcing a smile and sincerely express his negative emotions' is i think be something jgy would want in a rs #BUT i totally don't see him as like. midori from norwegian wood who describes love as ordering your s/o to come fetch you a cake THIS #instant then immediately yeeting it outta the window like 'actually i wanted another cake' and the s/o going 'you're right i'm stupid sorry'#jgy does not... want the power to force people to tolerate his capricious behaviours... if there's something he really truly shares with wwx #then i'd say is the cottagecore fantasy; or rather -- they just want a peaceful existence. jgy additionally wants to help people #but i super don't think he's this kind of lower class person whose life goal is to be decked in as much gucci/prada/whateverthefuckelse as #possible; have 10 servants at his beck n call and throw money and influence around #and i am just Puzzled that other people seem to -- at least to a degree -- think otherwise #anyway: donmai donmai this is just a random rantpost i am hereby going back 2 postcorpsening #postcorpsefuckening...fuckening... hm #shrimp thoughts

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robininthelabyrinth · 2 years

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altheadcanon/minific concept if you're still taking them: let's say nmj did in fact want to kill jgy when he kicked him down the stairs; it was the best chance to stop the man from further evils that would ruin himself and everyone around him

“What were you thinking?” someone snapped at Nie Mingjue – in his daze, he couldn’t tell who. “You could have killed him!”

In Nie Mingjue’s mind, lost and confused and overheated, those words felt like a moment of clarity.

Killed him – yes, that was what was necessary, wasn’t it?

Jin Guangyao had not responded to his offer of brotherhood by repairing his behavior, but by worsening it, only now he had Lan Xichen and Nie Mingjue to hide behind, using their respectability to further his evil deeds. If anything, now that he’d gotten so close to the approval of that odious Jin Guangshan, he was even more willing to debase himself, committing atrocity after atrocity, poisoning his own future…at this rate, he’d probably reincarnate as a toad, or an animal set for slaughter.

If Jin Guangyao was allowed to keep going, it would only be worse, for the world and for himself.

Nie Mingjue was Jin Guangyao’s older brother now. He had responsibility.

He…needed to kill him.

That was why he’d kicked him so viciously, Nie Mingjue supposed. Maybe he hadn’t realized it consciously yet, but he’d known what he needed to do. He’d known there was only one way out.

Of course, that didn’t make his actions appropriate.

No – if he was going to do this, he needed to do it right.

“Huaisang,” he said when he got home, and his little brother rushed over, frowning; he was worried over Nie Mingjue’s health again. Pointless, really. He was going to die, that much was true, but since they already knew it was going to happen, why worry? “Huaisang, forgive me. We’re going to need to go to war again.”

“To war?” Nie Huaisang frowned even more. “Against who? The Wen are all gone, aren’t they, except for the ones that were over in the Burial Mounds with Wei Wuxian…?”

“Not the Wen,” Nie Mingjue said. “Lanling Jin.”

“Lanling Jin? Why?”

Nie Mingjue haltingly explained his reasoning. Maybe in a normal moment he wouldn’t have, would have been enraged by the delay of having to use his words rather than his actions, would have simply imposed his will and moved on, but he knew, as others didn’t, how much his health was worsening; if they were going to start something like this, Nie Huaisang needed to know everything about it, because it was entirely possible that he would need to be the one to complete it.

Not to mention the fact that Nie Mingjue would be bringing the weight of their violated brotherhood oath down on his head through his actions, and that in turn would affect his reputation, his sect’s reputation, and Nie Huaisang’s reputation – that, too, would be making Nie Huaisang’s life harder. Nie Mingjue knew he had no choice but to do what he believed was right, righteousness demanded it, but it didn’t mean that there wouldn’t be consequences.

“Hmm,” Nie Huaisang said. “I have a counter-proposal.”

“What?”

“We declare war on Lanling Jin, yes, but we imprison san-ge instead of killing him. Our goal in declaring war would be to save him, not hurt him – that would avoid violating your oath. No ‘different intentions’, right?”

“I…suppose…” Nie Mingjue rubbed his temples. His head was hurting again. It always did when he thought of Jin Guangyao, these days. “You’re really all right with this?”

“I think it’s a terrible idea,” Nie Huaisang said bluntly. “But also you wouldn’t do something like declare war lightly, and also it occurs to me that if you aren’t able to lead our sect for whatever reason, the person leading the cultivation world is Jin Guangshan. Certainly I can’t stop him, Jiang-xiong can’t, and er-ge, as much as I love him…yeah, no. So I think you’re right. We’ve got to do something before that happens.”

He shrugged.

“War it is!”

(Later on, when they found out about the poisoned song, Nie Huaisang immediately claimed that he’d suspected all along and that was his real reason for agreeing to the war – opportunistic little brat!)

#mdzs #nie mingjue #nie huaisang #jin guangyao #my fic #my fics #alt headcanons #last few of these

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ruthlesscalculuss · 2 years

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I think many jc antis and some jc fans don’t realize that Jiang Cheng is not just an angry callous man. He’s arguably the most sensitive character in mdzs.

He deserves to be seen through his hard exterior, because there’s something so interesting behind it. An angry man with no deeper thought would not keep Chenqing by his side for 13 years. No man with such little depth would cry and mourn at the golden core reveal and at the temple scene. His love and willingness to die for his nephew shows one of his best qualities: loyalty to family and his loved ones.

Him trying to help raise Jin Ling and treat him better than Jiang Cheng’s parents ever treated him is honorable. To be better than the parents who hit, humiliated, and neglected you- it’s a genuinely respectable thing. That takes character growth and reflection to be a better person, which can be hard especially in a case like Jc.

Jiang Cheng rebuilt lotus pier all by himself, yes he got support from the top clans, however he oversaw that everything was reconstructed and that the place could be a bright and functioning sect, even better before his fathers rule. By himself. That takes a certain level of devotion that I admire as well, and he doesn’t do it for greedy reasons like power like JGY, he does it because he’s been groomed to be the sect leader for so long, it’s basically a part of his personality now. And that in itself can be seen as another tragedy.

Btw the man was literally begging wwx to come back with him to lotus pier and to get rid of the wens, so that he could protect him, before things truly got out of hand “if you insist on protecting them I can’t protect you” That’s fear, that’s fear of another loss, the death of someone you care about. Also can we talk about how jc always knew he was second best to wwx? And hey he never was that angry with the man, never tried to push him down and make fun of him for being the son of a servant, he trusted and respected him. And I don’t think that was easy to do.

Also another thing. Jc never tried to hunt and kill or torture wwx. When he ran into him on the streets of that inn, he whipped wwx to stun him, and dragged him back to question him. Not even touching a hair on his head. He used fairy as a blocker, and did call him over to fuck with wwx, it wasn’t right but I get why he got pissed off. Wwx had made a…insensitive comment to say the least, because he was so used to messing with jc (and jc in turn) but forgot that things are very different now.

Also, jc never actually wanted to kill wwx when he saw him again, he whipped him to expel him out of mo xuanyu’s body because he thought he was possessing him and he did lash out at lotus pier but he tried to stop before it got any worse “Jiang Cheng didn’t really want to hit Lan WangJi, and immediately retracted his whip, but it was already too late.”

My point in writing all of this is that jc is not just an “angry bitter man”, he is man capable of warmth and forgiveness like how we see him forgive wwx in the temple after years of resenting him. It’s so easy for jc to just hate wwx, but he doesn’t, he says it himself “Why can’t I hate you?! Shouldn’t I hate you?!” The anger and hurt he’s fed for years are slowly losing its roots in his heart and he doesn’t know what to do except cry. This part of him, I think is too relatable. When you survive through expressing hurt as anger, when you have to deal with “you’ll never be good enough” I can understand and I wish others would acknowledge this type of canon

#canon jiang cheng #jiang cheng #mdzs

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