#And Aegon - who has no influence over his own life because of Alicent and Otto and their expectations of him

[b-rainlet]

hello, i sent you dead dove helaegon hcs previously- aegon forcing aemond to participate in their bedding is so brilliant, him exacting that control and power over both his siblings (his influence over aemond obviously seemed to wane after he claimed vhagar) and getting a taste of what it’s like to truly be able to tell people to do whatever you want? yes absolutely. yes!

i think the idea of helaena being such a prize (virgin, targaryen princess, young) would make him more into it than anything else, and the fact that he could use it to force aemond into other things is even better. i think aegon is very smart and very able to pinpoint what makes people tick. him using that to make his siblings his servants? great :)

Anon we are currently holding hands and kissing with tongue.

Aegon realizing that after losing his power over his little brother - after said brother managed to claim a beast of a dragon while Sunfyre is barely big enough for Aegon to fly with him, after his brother lost an eye and inevitably twisted any and every show of power between them into Aegon picking on somebody vulnerable for the hell of it and looking like an asshole doing it, after their nephews tainted their relationship without a second thought and forever indebted Aegon to Aemond by leaving a tangible reminder of Aegon's failures as a big brother, after all of that - he now has a new, shiny little thing he can dangle over Aemond's head, something were Aegon can best Aemond without Aemond's missing eye playing any role whatsoever, a way for Aegon to be mean - cruel even - but without betraying Aemond as his family, does that make sense?

Once again, I believe in Aegon's head, the way he's treating Aemond in this little hc is mostly him trying to connect in the most fucked up way possible.

He's awful and he sees how he's hurting Aemond but he's the one hurting his brother and he's also the one who's murmuring into his hair about how well he did when they're done and Aemond's crying and it's different because that's his little brother and Aegon is the only one allowed to hurt his little brother.

#Anyway we should not sleep on cunning Aegon! #He's capable of it!! He's just too done/drunk to do it most times! #Idk if this is comprehensible my head is full of Aegon making Aemond do whatever fucked up shit - especially back before Driftmark #Just to check if he would actually do it #And Aemond was so desperate for Aegon's approval! #He wanted to he part of Aegon's little trio so bad! #And Aegon - who has no influence over his own life because of Alicent and Otto and their expectations of him #Finally having somebody who's willing to kneel in front of him in the dirt #Just because he said so??? #FUCK #It's just....his way of showing love???? #Idk idk #Aegond #ask tag

[bbygirl-aemond]

The Greens as the found family trope

Hi all I’m back on my “found family” bullshit so here are my thoughts on Ser Criston Cole as the Green siblings’ father figure :)

First, I’ve posted before about how devastated Criston is when Rhaenyra rejects him, and why I think that is. Long story short, they have an extreme power difference as a result the differences in their races, wealth, social stations, and political influences. Criston jeopardizes his career and his life in order to be intimate with her, and when rejected feels as if he was led on to believe she wanted a formal relationship with him, when she really wanted some stress relief. Rhaenyra is obviously not obligated to love him because they had sex, but she was definitely ignorant of her privilege when she pressured him into doing so.

So a post-Rhaenyra Criston is a man who believes he has forever jeapordized everything he has had to fight for, everything that all of the other characters on the show were born into. At any moment, Rhaenyra could tell people about what they did, and take away his career, his standing, and his life itself. He feels as if he has compromised himself, and his honor, all for naught, and as if there will forever be a sword of Damocles hanging over his head.

This is why he bashes Joffrey’s face in at Rhaenyra and Laenor’s wedding; it’s years of pent up terror of what would happen were his secret to get out (still insane of him tho). And, most importantly, this is why he immediately attempts suicide afterwards. He feels completely hopeless and does not see a way out of the situation that Rhaenyra has put him in.

And then you have Alicent. She saves his life, and gives him a purpose going forward as her protector-- and we have seen how much Criston cares about having an honorable purpose. Not only that, Alicent fully accepts him as he is: as a Dornishman, as a lowborn, and as an oathbreaker. As I’ve mentioned previously, we have seen other characters make classist and racist remarks to Criston; yet Alicent welcomes him as not just her protector.

We are shown, on the night that Aemond loses his eye, just how achingly alone she is; how literally no one at court will stand up for her and her children, including her own husband. Though Criston does not agree to take Lucerys's eye for her, we see him running to her, and having to be held back, when she lunges for Rhaenyra. And, of course, there is the visual parallel between Rhaenyra, Daemon, and her children, presented as one family unit:

And Alicent, Criston, and Aemond, juxtaposed against them: another family.

Later on in the show, Alicent also relies on Criston as a confidant, and as a problem-solver. It is him she goes to, when Viserys dies; him alone that she trusts to be loyal to her, rather than to Otto. Him alone that she trusts with her son.

Aegon is not the only son she trusts Criston with; we clearly see that Criston has taken Aemond on as a protégé in the scene of them training. There is a closeness there; they have trained together for years, and there is a familiarity that results. Aemond even confides in Criston, sharing some incredibly personal and potentially damning secrets. First, he admits to his frustration that his brother will be king when he is so ill-suited for it; it’s evident in the scene that this is the first time he has said such a thing aloud. And second, he tells Criston about the time his brother brought him to a brothel as a child; a traumatizing event he clearly does not remember fondly. These are not things you would tell your mother’s guard, or even your sparring partner; these are things you would tell someone you trusted and looked up to. Someone like a father.

So there is something about Criston and Alicent that seems very special to me. It doesn’t need to be romantic, even; but these are two people who met each other at their lowest points. Who feel as if they have no one in their respective corners, as if their lives are hopeless. Who come together, and raise children together, and protect their own.

#criston #ser criston #criston cole #ser criston cole #alicent #alicent hightower #aemond #aemond targaryen #aegon #aegon ii targaryen #aegon targaryen #aegon ii #stormbreak #fic: stormbreak #fic #brainrot #hc #spoiler free #fic: stormbreak: spoiler free #hotd meta #meta

[horizon-verizon]

The fact that Alicent’s stans deluded themselves into thinking that she’s the reason Rhaenyra wasn’t beset by assassins in episode 9 and did something because she raised her voice to someone but the moment her father talked to Lord Westerling she remained in silence, it was his refusal that saved Rhaenyra, not Alicent.

And sending terms for Rhaenyra to deliver her toddler sons to live under Aegon II’s sadistic will as hostages is hardly defending Rhaenyra or doing any good to her, that’s fucking miserable, it’s insane how y’all believe that those terms were good, it’s awful on the show and on the book.

I get it now Alicent spent 10 years harassing and tormenting Rhaenyra and her underage children, openly saying she wanted her father there to take her side even tho she knew her wishes meant exile or even death to Rhaenyra because she was trying to influence the inevitable and protect Rhaenyra, true love 😍

Delusion--sometimes they are fun, harmless birds caressing us into safety, other times it's a steel band slowly starving us of or own intellect.

What really irks me are the damn terms being mischaracterized as harmless stipulations as if the greens (Alicent & Otto) are far more likely to be uncharitable to Rhaenyra's children then the reverse.

[Regardless of truebornness or illegitimacy, bc w/their regard for those not-illegitimate kids when they did live at the keep, they already showed they don't care all that much for how young and vulnerable and worthy of protection a child is; Daemon is more or less under rhaenyra's thumb and no I do not care about the choking scene bc no it is NOT even consistent with DaemonxRhaenyra--if they wanted to establish Daemon was abusive towards her, they should have shown scenes of him intimidating her or something in episodes 7-8! so I do not even think of this scene as HotD "canon" and you cannot convince me otherwise! just as I do not think Criston is Dornish in the show no matter what Alicent said or what he looked like--esp since if he was Dornish, it's far more likely he'd still look pale bc the northernest Dornish--the "stony" Dornish as Daeron I later calls them--are paler people who look your "typical" Westerosi..the Martells' looks are not ubiquitous in Dorne! Write better, and then I'll perhaps respect your storytelling.]

And while there are some sweet and rational rhaenicent shippers out there, the ship simply never made sense in the way that it was written in the show. Their development as close friends was never shown, and for how different they are, it needed to be shown! Especially with:

how Alicent really didn't seem to understand Rhaenyra as a person for her to act as she does in the Sept episode and attempting to reinforce "girls don't involve themselves with the politics of men" despite Rhaenyra being the freaking heir // while this is happening, Alicent visiting the king, with there being no sign of even hesitance , guilt, or desire to tell Rhaenyra about it--similar to how Criston should have known Rhaenyra would never leave with him and abandon her family or "duty" or the prospect of becoming the first queen of Westeros after years of everyone's doubt (2)

how she uses her queenly-stepmotherly authority over her (3)

how she continues this in her approach to her in that "queenly" way, accusing Rhaenyra PLUS the implication of her disapproving of her actions despite having to have known how Rhaenyra has felt Viserys has shunted her for most of her life....(4)

From the beginning, alicent has been too much of a ruler-follower to appeal to rhaenyra AND she has thought that for rhaenyra to be happy or at least content with her life, she must also conform to the obedient social rules of feminine conduct--ignoring any presence of inner conflict Rhaenyra has had or pondering over it.

#asoiaf asks to me #alicent hightower #alicent's characterization #hotd characterization #alicent stans #fandom critical #hotd fandom #hotd episode 10 #hotd episode 9 #rhaenicent #hotd critical #otto hightower

[mhevarujta]

This is an unpopular opinion, but Alicent was my absolutely favorite character in the section of Fire and Blood about the destabilization of House Targaryen. (SPOILERS from both the book and the show).

While her character may seem like a plotter etc. her motives and her actions make absolute sense based on the Tudor politics and noble women's place during the time that Martin has been inspired from and are not in fact just a matter of personal ambition. Women following the orders of the head of their house was their obligation and they could easily be tossed aside if they didn't. They didn't own their bodies and they hardly had control over their courtships (as Rhaenyra too is going to discover). Moreover, once a queen had a male child, that child would be in danger for the rest of his life and chances are it would be killed even if it didn't aim for the throne, which is something very specifically established within Fire and Blood. In fact, despite being vindictive when her children are being hurt, Alicent has still a solid head on her shoulders AND when her edgelord of a son (yes, I'm referring to Aemond) pulls a certain stunt which is condoned by Aegon II, she is VERY much aware of his actions having been impulsive and idiotic. Moreover, despite her undermining of Rhaenyra, Alicent shows willingness to compromise in the only way that ensures her family, which is understandably not enough for Rhaenyra, but is still solid thinking on Alicent's side. Moreover, in the book, there is a moment that shows that other than her interest in the safety of her family (which was a one-way road since the moment Otto set her down this path), she takes much more joy in her daughter becoming queen next to her own son whom he could influence, and therefore seeming to be safer and possibly having having control over her fate that Alicent herself did not have until her life had basically been decided for her. Tragically her daughter's fate was one of the most impactful and terrible events of the story, but that's an entirely different chapter.

Moving from the subtleties of Alicent's actions in the book, I love how the show adds to her 'origin story' AND knowing that this is with Martin's stamp of approval. In the series, Alicent is shown to be kind and graceful. She care about Rhaenyra, she empathizes with Viserys and shows to him more compassion than anyone in his council. One might say that he is pretending, but I'd argue that there were other ways to approach him. Otto sent her in wearing her mothers' dress, with a décolleté basically reaching her waste. The girl instead went in with a book. She still did her father's bidding, but she did it in a way that was more respectful and understanding than most women of the time would master. It's also of note how she tries to create a bridge of communication between Viserys and Rhaenyra instead of trying to estrange them and her genuine heartbreak over Rhaenyra's loss, which she actually relates to.

Even before she courted Viserys, Alicent's position is an uncomfortable one. In the first episode, during the tournament, she is obliged to plaster a smile on her face and give Daemon her favor after he hurt her brother and publically humiliated her house, knowing very well that Daemon's request aims at further enraging her father. And when she leans to grab her favor she gets a disapproving look from Otto even though she couldn't have handled the situation any other way and he KNOWS this and didn't move himself to defend their honor. The only crack already showing is the fact that she constantly looks like a trapped animal and the picking of the skin around her nails, which is her way of channeling her anxiety, sadness and anger. And she can't have even that because Otto repeatedly chastises her because it makes her appear less 'perfect'. 

And of course, when Viserys chooses Alicent, she is the one who looks like the seductress even though she could hardly undermine her father AND in the show (where she and Rhaenyra are friends) Viserys, who is the one between them in a position of power, KNOWS of the friendship and could have decided to not choose Alicent (not that choosing the child that had not even 'blossomed' would have been better).As for Alicent's personal desire to be the first lady of the kingdom, it is definitely there, but I think it's an acquired taste because it gave her more control, which she always lacked. In the trailers there is a very specific scene of Rhaenys asking Alicent whether she has never imagined herself on the Iron Throne (being the actual ruler), which I think will be essential in Alicent realising more and more how trapped she has been feeling and that the power her children have the opportunity of wielding might give them the freedom she always desired.

Finally, I'd like to argue something that is explained, but also disregarded by many, in the last chapter about Jaehaerys. The Dance had already been set up because of the too many claims and because of the way Jaehaerys chose to establish his heir. An opening had been given to anyone questioning the validity of a female heir AND no matter whom Viserys had married the second time, there was a possibility of things going down in a similar manner.

Example: Corlys ALWAYS kept bringing to the forefront his family's nobility, their power and above all Rhaenys' strong claim. If Laena had married Viserys (speculating based on Corlys overall actions and on the way politics work) there is a big chance that when the time came, House Velaryon would have tried to enforce their own claim over Rhaenyra's. 

Now, I'm not saying that Alicent's is a saint. She DID morally terrible things as all the main characters did during the Dance. I just believe firmly that she is a fascinating grey character and not the stereotypical, cartoonish hag some people make her out to be.

#alicent hightower #fire and blood #house of the dragon #hotd

[blue-mint-winter]

House of the Dragon ep 9

Well, the most surprising thing for me was that they didn’t leave Viserys’ rotting corpse, because they were hiding his death as long as possible. I’m sure there were more changes from the book, so I’ll just stop here and only concentrate on what was in the episode and not what wasn’t.

I think several characters progress here.

Otto starts throwing his weight and ruthlessly moves to secure his own rule through Aegon (let’s be real, Aegon doesn’t want or know how to rule so he will be Otto’s puppet... unless he appoints someone else as his Hand, but I don’t see that happening). That means forcing the lords to bend the knee and killing any opposition as he quickly crowns Aegon. This is the moment Otto has been waiting for years when he can truly do what he wants. No king to shut him down.

Aegon himself is hiding and running from kingship until he’s dragged out and made to do it... then he gets with the flow and performs well before the crowd at the coronation. Because that’s what he is, a king for show. Despite previous episodes establishing he’s a terrible person that no one should trust with the throne, it doesn’t seem like he would actually do anything concrete with all this power. His character in this episode is somewhat sad because he can’t escape this destiny that Otto is forcing on him, just like he did to Alicent before. And even like it was done to Viserys when he was chosen over Rhaenys. I think they picked Aegon’s actor very well for the role, because in the coronation he really reminded me of Viserys. Maybe it was the shape of his jaw?

Literally everyone in this family thinks lowly of Aegon and they have good reasons for it. But it’s somehow very sad when you remember ep 3 and how celebrated he was as a child while in this episode he talks with Alicent about how he knew that Viserys loved Rhaenyra most and that he wouldn’t name him heir and then Aegon asks his mother whether she loved him and she didn’t say it because she couldn’t lie to his face. Probably she still has some small affection for Aegon but we all know who’s her real favourite - Aemond. So Aegon somehow from the first son went to the most unloved child by both of his parents and all relatives. There’s more to think about how it ties with his depravities but I don’t have time for it. Anyway, this episode kind of makes you consider what could have been, because there was a hidden potential in him to be great that just got wasted and buried under neglect and vices.

Cole murdering Beesbury in the council was nothing new as he’s always been a thug. His loyalty is to Alicent, not Otto, which is interesting with how the show is presenting an idea of the conflict between the two Hightowers. Also, this murder of a councillor, a defenseless old man, is a very symbolic and bad start for the Green take over in face of Alicent’s justifications of being morally superior to the other side.

Alicent is very interesting in this episode because she’s caught in the inner conflict of her own. It makes her look indecisive and weak unfortunately, but it’s worth looking into her motivations. As the Queen Dowager and Aegon’s mother she has her own influence now. This allows her to finally oppose Otto, who’s been controlling her life all this time. That’s why she has Aegon brought to her first to be the one who controls the king truly. She wants to wield her power to make better decisions according to her morals, but turns out it’s not so easy to practice. She opposes killing, but she can’t stop Criston who does it anyway and allows Larys to do it too. Her morals and battle for decency and righteousness are in fact an obstacle to obtaining and securing power over the kingdom. She knows Rhaenyra and Daemon won’t submit but she can’t bring herself to order them killed.

I like how the episode discusses that Alicent’s misunderstanding of Viserys’ last words doesn’t change anything for anyone but herself. No one would believe her that Viserys changed his mind. It’s only a justification for herself, for her theft of the crown from the rightful queen. Otto was planning and preparing for this takeover anyway. Alicent needed this misunderstanding to feel like she has the right to crown her son  - especially since she knows Rhaenyra also has a son named Aegon too and Viserys could have meant him.

Alicent also tries to persuade imprisoned Rhaenys to her side but it’s completely ineffective, because Rhaenys is in Rhaenyra’s camp. It’s just politically better for her. Alicent can’t make Rhaenys’ granddaughter a queen because Aegon’s already married, she can only offer to let Rhaenys live and have what she already has anyway. Alicent’s mercy is a political mistake, killing Rhaenys would have been strategically better because it would weaken Rhaenyra’s side in war by one dragonrider.

Rhaenys’ escape on Meleys was amazing. I love the symbolism, her literally crashing the ceremony of Aegon’s coronation. People running in panic while she stares down the royal family. In this moment, she could have burned them and single-handedly won the throne for Rhaenyra. However, she’s not Rhaenyra’s soldier to do her dirty work, only an ally, so she refrains from taking that first (kinslaying) shot. Rhaenys’ entrance is a warning and a reminder that this whole farce before smallfolk that don’t care who’s the king means nothing. Dragons are the true power of the king and they will decide this conflict. I like how Rhaenys doesn’t escalate, she repays Alicent’s mercy with her own by sparing them like she was spared.

I think Aegon may have inherited Viserys’ bad luck with big important events and ceremonies lol.

Some thoughts on other characters - Mysaria became an advocate of people in Kings Landing. She’s her own player that tries to navigate between the two sides of the succession conflict. Unless she was lying to Otto and she’s still Daemon’s agent. It’s hard to tell.

Aemond being both Daemon 2.0 and his mama’s boy on the side of decency and honour is just hilarious to me. The duality of man lol. It’s interesting that he has those thoughts about deserving the crown more than Aegon.

Helaena embroidering a spider is so funny. The girl never changed. Attention to details like this is what makes the show shine :)

The twin kingsguards are shown more but I can’t differentiate them. One was guarding Aegon and that makes him take Rhaenyra’s side and help Rhaenys’ escape. Good for him. The other has a philosophy of obeying orders from Otto and not thinking too much.

#house of the dragon #hotd #my thoughts #aegon ii targaryen #alicent hightower

[em-writes-stuff-sometimes]

Right.

I've had a really good idea for something that could cause a lot of possible DRAMA within your fanfic. Historically, when big cities like London were suffering from a bout of the plague the king would remove his court from the capital to another location in order to reduce the chances of the royal family catching it (e.g. Great Plague of London 1665).

So, I was wondering if perhaps something similar might happen in Kings Landing were a really bad plague sweeps through the city sort of like a precursor to the Great Spring Sickness in Dunk and Egg. The plague would be so severe that Vissy T would be forced to temporarily move the royal family in Kings Landing to another location in order to reduce the chances of them catching the plague. But the only other property the Targaryens own apart from the Red Keep is, you guessed it... their ancestral seat of DRAGONSTONE. The place where all the BLACKS are.

Alicent tries to get Vissy T to go to Oldtown instead but he's like 'Pffft. Why would I exchange one plague-ridden city for another plague-ridden city?' and so Viserys takes his entire family of GREENS to seek safety from the plague on Dragonstone and Rhae-Rhae wont object because she's worried that her father, who's already ill, will die from the PLAGUE if he continues to stay in Kings Landing.

So the Greens and the Blacks will be forced to live in close proximity for around six moons, will they wait for the plague to abate in Kings Landing. And obviously theirs going to be DRAMA because Alicent and Rhaenrya cannot stand each other and Daemon, Criston and Otto are stuck in a hatred triangle. Simultaneously, the Green kids might get jealous of how familial the Blacks are with each other and Otto Hightower might try and distance Daeron from the Blacks when he sees how close they are to him so Daeron snitches to Big Sister Babey and Nuncle Daemon who then engage in a covert war with Otto and Alicent over Daeron's loyalties which BABEY ultimately wins because she is better than them. This causes Alicent to resent her for 'stealing' Daeron and by Episode 8 they'll no longer be as cordial with each other, with Alicent viewing Babey not quite as badly as Rhaenrya but close enough because she's jealous that Daeron barely knows her and treats Babey like his mother. With Otto criticising her for allowing Daeron to have so much Team!Black influence in his life, I can see Alicent making more and more desperate overtures to get Daeron to join her in Kings Landing, and by extension the Greens, which ultimately gets her nowhere and actually causes Dareon to distance himself from his Hightower family for a bit. MUHAHAHAHA.

Sorry for making you read all this crap but I really had to vent all of my brain-rot before it got out-of-control. You don't have to consider this but the potential for DRAMA MAKES ME GO NFFFFFFF.

Thanks Em!

This is actually really awesome! I do borrow quite a bit from medieval history to fill in world-building gaps, seeing as how ASOIAF was more-or-less modelled on the Wars of the Roses, so this has some historical weight to it that would make things hilariously chaotic. Plus, Vissie T and the King's crew get to see how Daemon and Babey and Rhae and Laenor run their shit. Bitch, they're visitors on Dragonstone. The court be mad jealous of how fucking swag the awesome foursome are, Vissie T is like 'bitch you stole my SPOTLIGHT' to Daemon, Alicent's huffy as fuck cuz they radiate badass and she radiates social climber, and Otto looks like he's permanently sucking on a turd. Ser Incel is losing his godsdamned mind, while Helaena's just happy to vibe, tbh. Aemond's all 'eh' and skulky, while Aegon's fine cuz there's alcohol here too.

Daemon's torn between wanting to show off and wanting them all to fuck off, Rhae and Laenor are done already, and Babey's givin' it her best damn shot. Everyone's stunned as fuck by how domestic they've managed to make the literal hellscape that is the Targaryen home seat, given its depressing-as-shit decor and drab moody vibe.

This is awesome, anon - I'll definitely have to keep it in mind!

#fanfiction comments #follower headcanons #future plot arcs

[wandering-scavenger]

Curious what do you think Otto Hightower overall ? Given what we have seen so far and such.

Ohohohoho Otto Hightower is a piece of work!

I don't root for him per se, but you gotta give the guy some points for simply having the audacity to pull what he's been trying to pull 🤣

I view Otto as a man that is actually weighed down by the patriarchy just as much as Alicent is. I read a commentary about it somewhere but I can't find it sorry 😭 Otto is similar to Littlefinger so much as they both have to claw their way into court. As the 2nd son with nothing to inherit, Otto has had to carve his own glory to really amount to something. His ambition brought him success for a time, serving as hand to Jaeherys and Viserys.

There's no way around justifying essentially whoring out his daughter who was basically still a child to Viserys. That alone told the audience that he is an ambitious man who is willing to sacrifice his own child for power. At that point, I think he was very confident in how much influence he had over Viserys. He hates Daemon so much he suggests that Rhaenyra be the heir because secretly he's propping up his daughter to be the next Queen who will hopefully bear Rhaenyra's replacement.

Otto isn't dumb, I think he's very good at presenting himself as a meek and serious man with the realm's well being in mind. For most of the part, he's pretty good at looking after things for Viserys. The problem is that he got overconfident and thought he could convince Viserys to make Aegon his heir, and he didn't consider that Rhaenyra herself could be cunning, which got him booted.

This pretty much sent him into panic mode, because he essentially put his daughter and grandchildren in direct danger by offering Alicent as Viserys' queen and now has zero time to convince Viserys to make Aegon the heir now that he's being kicked out of King's Landing. Of course, he himself is in denial of his responsibility for the situation and blames Alicent for backing up Rhaenyra's claim (father of the year everybody!) I think that he was certain he could have convinced Viserys to name Aegon as heir if Alicent had tried harder to sway Viserys as well. The thing is, he is absolutely right about the likelihood that Alicent's children will be killed if Rhaenyra ascends the throne.

Even if Rhaenyra wouldn't want to kill her half-siblings, Alicent's boys would be threats for the simple reason of being male Targaryens. Their existence alone would make other opportunists clamor in their favor and cause strife in Westeros. Westeros may be a made up world, but the basic dynamics of society and the human psyche are still true to life. GRRM himself wrote Daenerys Targaryen with a certain question in mind: what happens to a person when you give them the equivalent of 3 nuclear bombs to wield at will?

In history alone, we have instances of potential political threats being murdered despite their innocence. Jane Grey was the Queen of England for 9 days but took the role reluctantly, manipulated by her father and other men who wished to benefit from her position. Even though she didn't want to be Queen, Mary I sentenced her to death when she took the throne. When the French revolutionists stormed Versailles, they imprisoned 4yr old Louis-Charles (the heir) to prevent a royalist uprising and abused him until his death at the age of 10.

So while I absolutely believe that Otto is ambitious and disgusting for pimping out and gaslighting his daughter, I don't recall him ever really lying to Viserys (I could be wrong though) and do sense his genuine fear now about what will become of Alicent and her children, which tells me that he does love his daughter albeit in a messed up way that he also views her as an instrument to his ambitions (let's be real we all know that women really were viewed as property to be used for alliances and propagation of heirs). Like I've said before, two things can be true at once.

In my case, I enjoy Otto for the political intrigue and hate him for how he parents Alicent.

#otto hightower #hotd #asks #house of the dragon #alicent hightower #hotd spoilers

[la-pheacienne]

I can’t speak for Alicent “stans” because I don’t stan anything but I can speak to why I personally like Alicent a lot. She’s not my favorite character (Rhaenys is) but she’s a close second tied with Rhaenyra. I think she’s a very tragic character whose life did not go the way she wanted it to. I do read a lot into her based on my own personal interpretation of the character which lends her a bit more sympathy because I don’t think that show Alicent particularly cares about whether or not the heir is male and that she doesn’t really think Aegon is fit to be king, but that when she told Otto what she thought the King said, she realized that she would have to go along with it and succeed or oppose him and lose. If she opposed him, she’d have to accept her own lack of true influence. Her actions are to maintain her own delusion that she has power and all the years she spent we’d to Viserys meant something. I can’t excuse her actions but I feel sympathy for her just as I like and feel sympathy for Cersei. I’d be curious to hear what you think of my interpretation and if you disagree, what you think instead

Hi anon! Thank you for your message, sorry it took so long for me to answer, I hope you eventually read my response.

So, let us be clear here, you're talking about show!Alicent so we'll talk about that version of the character. You raise some interesting points here. The main problem with show!Alicent is not how evil she is but how passive and basic she is, for lack of a better word. I don't know what to say about her, I don't like her but I have no concrete basis in hating her other than the fact that she doesn't seem to have much personality, agency or responsibility over anything. That is a problem in a narrative. So, if you ask me honestly, do I hate her, I will probably say no. It's the stupid fans' obsession with her because she is a pretty feminine victim, and the stupid writers' political agenda that makes me hate what she represents in the story, not the actual person show!Alicent is, that person is completely indifferent to me.

Thing is, anon, I don't buy the victim narrative for Alicent. I don't buy the poor child bride arc, I don't buy the fact that she's supposed to be helpless, I don't buy the fact that she didn't have ambition and she only felt obliged to go through with the treason because Viserys said so in his deathbed, when Alicent had clearly already been preparing her son to be King all of his life, when she knows that Viserys dragged his dying body to the Iron Throne to defend his daughter only hours before his death. I don't buy the narrative of the sexually abused QUEEN that has to give sexual favours to her servants to serve her. I don't buy the narrative of the poor sexually repressed woman that is only doing her duty and sacrifice when real life Queens (that were also child brides and had worse husbands than Viserys) had at least 20 lovers at Court, had bastards and put them on the Throne, all the time from the Middle Ages to modern history.

The show and the fans want me to sympathise with all of that, but all I see is a person that has no ambition and no desire to claim anything for herself, when she could have. She absolutely could have, but she doesn't want to, because of her passive personality and also her religious faith. The show presents this symbol of a person, this archetype of the perfect pretty pious lady that just endures and endures and endures when she's the fucking Queen. Her mariage didn't only victimise her, it made her QUEEN. And the thing is, she doesn't just endure. She usurps. She betrays. She actively destroys, without really meaning to (lol), the rightful heir to the throne because that heir was a woman. So we have an antagonist who doesn't even own the fact that she's an antagonist, like Cersei does. I don't feel sorry for her.

You say that she wants her years of marriage to Viserys to mean something. That I understand. I think that should have been the basis of her arc : spite. The faithful wife that did the right thing and produced male heirs and served the realm and now she feels entitled to a reward for her service, and she will take that in any cost. Now that is a narrative I can get behind. That isn't show!Alicent though. Show!Alicent is crying at Viserys dying and she usurps Rhaenyra because she's following Viserys' will, lol no. I can see why someone could sympathise with her though, I do. It's just that I don't buy the victim narrative of the fucking Queen of the Seven Kingdoms. She's just weak and in her weakness she does a lot of harm.

#hotd #house of the dragon #anonymous

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'And call me cold, but no, I don’t care that Aemond lost an eye and I don’t care about Alicent being upset either. Aemond brought that on himself because he got cocky after claiming Vhaegar and then kept escalating the fight to the point where he was going to kill Jace, which caused Luke to slash his eye in defense.'

WOW anon you are not just cold but also heartless I guess, congratulations. You mean A CHILD deserved to be maimed FOR LIFE for an insult that he probably doesn't even understand in fool meaning yet because he 'got cocky'? That's absolutely crazy. You say he was influenced by Alicent, so you are also victim blaming him because he had no one but his mother? He was euphoric and cocky after finally getting a dragon but why are ignoring the context? He was feeling not worthy and lonely because all other children had dragons and shared interests, they laughed at him. Aemond who didn't plan to kill anyone even at the age of 17 tried to kill Jace at 10? Make it make sense. He lowered the knife many times. Don't you think that Jace actually could kill him when he was swinging a knife at him? Why did he have a knife at all? They were hitting Aemond 3 to 1 and he picked a stone for self defense. In the end everything that happened was the result of their parents' actions but blaming the kids is crazy.

I believe that I am both the train track and destination for this message to another anon HERE. Since this anon didn’t bother to just reblog my post to talk to the other anon, or condense this to a comment in the same post.

You: “You say he was influenced by Alicent, so you are also victim blaming him because he had no one but his mother? He was euphoric and cocky after finally getting a dragon but why are ignoring the context? He was feeling not worthy and lonely because all other children had dragons and shared interests, they laughed at him.”

First, Aemond doesn’t have just his mother. He has the Hightowers, he would have had his uncle if the writers stayed with the canon lore, and he has his grandfather for political support. If he has little emotional support, that’s because Alicent forgot to pay attention to her kids’ emotional needs apart from the usurp-Rhaenyra mission, which places heavier emphasis on a twisted sense of duty to family over love of family. 

You wanna blame someone for Aemond’s loneliness? Blame it on Alicent, Otto, Viserys and the HotD writers/showrunners themselves for “just getting to the good stuff”, as Condal said to justify the jump cuts. 

Second, Aemond and all of his own brothers -- in the book -- had a rivalry themselves with the V boys. And Aegon definitely wasn’t against his own brother, like in the show:

The enmity between Queen Alicent and Princess Rhaenyra was passed on to their sons, and the queen’s three boys, the Princes Aegon, Aemond, and Daeron, grew to be bitter rivals of their Velaryon nephews, resentful of them for having stolen what they regarded as their birthright: the Iron Throne itself. Though all six boys attended the same feasts, balls, and revels, and sometimes trained together in the yard under the same master-a-arms and studied under the same maesters, this enforced closeness only served to feed their mutual mislike, rather than binding them together as brothers.

(Fire and Blood; “A Question of Succession”)

This implies that the green boys would have hated the V boys so much that there was and would be open antagonism. Not necessarily ultra physically violent encounters (frequent outright fights), but physical altercation is not the only or more important type of altercation. You yourself might try to bring up how the show’s V boys bully Aemond -- this is itself not physical bullying or violence, but it is emotional bullying. Which I am sure you’d agree is not less than physical bullying....hopefully

In Fire and Blood, Aemond is described as “fierce” since childhood/baby childhood (perhaps 6-8):

Two years later, she produced a daughter for the king, Helaena; in 110 AC, she bore him a second son, Aemond, who was said to be half the size of his elder brother, but twice as fierce.

AND

Prince Aemond, despite the loss of his eye, had become a proficient and dangerous swordsman under the tutelage of Ser Criston Cole, but remained a wild and willful child, hot-tempered and unforgiving.

(Fire and Blood; “A Question of Succession”)

The word “remained” lets me know that Aemond was “willful”, “hot-tempered” and “fierce” from young childhood. And the reason why I am accepting of this characterization is because:

the court would have all seen it, how he acted and held himself –> and there is no evidential contradiction

his mother would have definitely instilled his entitlement and hatred for Rhaenyra/hers sons at an early age

his rivalry with his nephews would have been palpable

and other events that I won’t spoil for you -- unless you read the book? 

My point here is that Aemond, as the menace that he is, would AND should have been the real aggressor and fiercer bully against the V boys in HotD, because he has the classist, blood-purist mindset that he is better than them while also envying them for taking his mal-given “birthright”. The way the show writes him is intended to dilute his rancor and disgust towards these kids so he seems not as reprehensible...when most of his life he has been. And it's important to note that, because it gives us the understanding of where Aemond stood in the blacks v greens rivalry, how Alicent & Otto constructed their own later nightmare when he killed Luke, etc. It assigns undoubted accountability.

Which means that he would not have been as bullied, victimized, or antagonized as he was in the show, since the V boys would have been growing up in a court that found them abhorrent or distasteful for being suspected bastards. which, by the way, is defined by the Faith as being: “born from lust, lies, and weakness, and as such, they are said to be wanton and treacherous by nature.” Blood purity. The V boys would rather try their best to not antagonize or argue with the green boys.], most likely at their mother’s behest. And Aemond, Aegon, “even” Daeron would have all made their sneers, jokes, innuendos, the errant shoulder- push. Think how Hogwarts Slytherin and Gryf. students would behave when there’s a teacher present times 10.

And this is all (except the 2nd quote) with him being dragon-less and before Vhagar. Like I said, Aemond is supported well and his birth is never in question. Plus, Targaryens have a long history of claiming dragons in their preteens, teens, and even adulthood. Cradle bonding is overrated. It rather shows the court/Alicent’s misogyny and unfounded prejudice against bastards, which GRRM is always writing to be a negative mindset to have (ahem, Dany, Cersei Rhaegar, Robert I Baratheon, Jon Snow). 

Aemond, even dragonless, is fine and would have been fine. He’s pressed because his grandfather/mother wants him to be useful against Rhaenyra for the sake of Aegon’s rule. That’s all.

So why does the show change this and make Aemond look more of a victim if they read of his wrongs in Fire and Blood, if they actually paid attention to the book’s language and thought about its layers of context?

You: “Aemond who didn't plan to kill anyone even at the age of 17 tried to kill Jace at 10? Make it make sense. He lowered the knife many times. Don't you think that Jace actually could kill him when he was swinging a knife at him? Why did he have a knife at all? They were hitting Aemond 3 to 1 and he picked a stone for self defense.”

Since you should now know the show is trash for me, I do not put stock into how Aemond picked up the rock and all that apart from proving to people who say that he put it down that he actually picked it up again and THAT'S when he got slashed. Especially since he was always meant to be an asshole, from childhood to his death.

And again, he’s 12-13, not 17. Go back and do some calculations.

About the knife, I already address it in the post I already linked in one of these sentences I wrote:

Meanwhile…how the hell did any of these kids get up from bed and get down there in the first place? Aemond claiming Vhagar is never addressed. How Baela and Rhaena thought there was a random person taking Vhagar and went down with the Velayron boys for security and protection, thus the knife’s presence.

Plus, medieval boys are trained to fight since young. You don’t think that they’d be very willing to use said knife when they hear someone calling them “bastards” and fighting them? 

And, I will repeat, when their cousins are asking them to come with them down to confront the Vhagar “thief” (no I do not think Vhagar was stolen, I think that his act to claim her was under devious means and was unethical--link is to a post I reblogged from theblackqveen).

Look, I don’t think that the other anon (or I) is saying that children in general deserved to be tortured or should be immediately physically punished for a wrong. 

We are saying “fuck around, find out”, that if you do a wrong act--or any act--there will be consequences or there's likely to be a retaliation. That there was the case of a justified retaliation. That kids are not exempted from this one thing, since they are living, thinking, and acting beings even if they are learning morality. Yes, they are learning, which means they come up to moments where their actions are punished or have consequences.

You live, you act, and there are consequences.

Young Aemond of episodes 6 & 7  (really Aemond everywhere all at once) displays enough self-awareness of his actions and has a cunning that has him protect Alicent in the moment of Viserys questioning him. He would have been 12-13 years old (not 17) at this moment of the show, whereas he was 10ish in the book, so Show!Ameond has even less an excuse than his canon character comparatively. 

He may have been a child, but he’s a child with a deep sense of his own inherent superiority that is featured in homophobes, racists, classists, and sexists -- he’s a menace.

Otto and Alicent’s fault? Yes. Does he grow into an adult capable of distinguishing right from wrong? Yes, yet he continues into this into his adulthood (Lucerys’ death). People get abused their entire lives or receive terrible injuries, yet some do not fall into abusive patterns themselves and we punish those who display such behaviors even with their history.

You’re another person who’d benefit from reading this article by Seth Abramson called “House of the Dragon Showrunner Ryan Condal Responds to Criticism of the Season 1 Finale”. Your choice.

#asoiaf asks to me #hotd writing #hotd fandom #hotd characterization #aemond's characterization #hotd comment #ryan condal #vhagar claim #hotd episode 7 #green stan nonsense #the targtowers #asoiaf #hotd

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I’m 100% Team Black, but I do think Rhaenyra should have tried to form a relationship with her siblings in the show. I know she was quite older than them and had her own children, but she still could have tried. I think Aegon and Helaena both would have been receptive to her and loved her. I think Aemond might have been the most resistant because he seems like the one who listens to Alicent the most, but I think he would have warmed up to her eventually.

I think it was a mistake on Rhaenyra’s part, to let the Hightowers, Otto and Alicent, influence her siblings so much and divide the Targaryen family. Let’s be honest, the Green Targs are nothing but Hightower puppets. They follow the orders of Hightowers and fight against their own Targaryen kin. Rhaenyra should have seen how this division weakens the Targ family.

I also think that Rhaenyra asking to sharply question Aemond in 1x07, was a very bad move. I know she didn’t actually want him tortured, it was an empty threat to scare Alicent into admitting the truth, but I’m sure Aemond actually thought that his own sister wanted him tortured, and it’s not something he’s like to forget. Aemond wasn’t innocent at all in the fight that occurred, but he was still the one that ended up with the worst injury and I do think Rhaenyra showing some concern for him would have changed a lot.

Read this Post in its entirety (some of what I say about the book! characters goes the same for the show! characters) AND this Post, but scroll to section C.

Alicent of both the show and book has the true advantage over Rhaenyra concerning her children. Alicent is Queen Consort and their mother, totally in charge of their earliest interactions and the first person who is giving them an education or understanding about life, society, etc. (Apart from any political education from appointed tutors and maybe Viserys himself. GRRM doesn't really get into details about how Targ royal kids learned to rule from tutors, who these tutors are if they were just maesters or whatever.) Who would these kids listen to more--their mother or a sister from another, dead, mother?

From where did you expect room for Rhaenyra to do as you said without totally compromising her own development and family? Overall, in the early times when the kids they both had were still small, AND by episode 7 by itself?

That there was actually a chance for her to show "concern" when Alicen was pressing for Lucerys' eye at breakneck speed? Once again, Rhaenyra didn't want Aemond tortured, that's extreme. She wanted Viserys to come down on him hard and press him for answers as to where Aemnd got the idea of the V boys being bastards and thus expose Alicent's year-long attacks against her and her kids. Do you actually think that Rhaenyra expected or even pretended to expect Viserys, the boy's father, to allow the actual torture of his son/a prince? For all that Viserys ignores his green kids in comparison to Rhaenyra, they are still his kids, they are princes ,they were children, he always wanted more kids and he's not the one slapping them around, invading their personal spaces while naked, or dragging them places. That's Alicent and Otto.

Never once did Alicent ever expect Rhaenyra to give her a formal apology then in episode 7 or later for Aemond's eye. She didn't want concern, she wanted retribution. And the apology of episode 8 was about Alicent being a good wife and mother, not Aemond's hurts.

#asoiaf asks to me #alicent hightower #rhaenyra targaryen #hotd comment #house of the dragon #hotd characterization #hotd characters #hotd #alicent's characterization #alicent's children #rhaenyra's children #rhaenyra's characterization #rhaenyra vs alicent #hotd episode 7