your thoughts on the cut jackienat scene are everything and it's really nice to see someone else get it. the discourse from the scene has been draining enough because people don't think it was cut for being out of character when that seems to be the case
also, happy belated!
i'm glad to hear that you ( and others ) agree! honestly, i was quite nervous to post my thoughts on the matter in the main tag, considering how crazy fandom spaces can get nowadays, but i felt so strongly about this in particular that i couldn't help it. my main issue with the discussion surrounding this deleted scene is the fact that it feels extremely pointed. for the last few months, jackienat as a romantic relationship and as a platonic pairing has been gaining steady traction ; they've become a staple to most fics as an essential dynamic and something that heavily matters to both characters. besides shaunajackie it's easily the second most popular ship for jackie, and in a way i think that's the problem. ever since gaining more popularity, there's been very odd comments thrown it's way? people taking every given opportunity to claim they don't see the 'jackienat romantic vision' on edits, saying it would never be a thing because of jackie's one slut shaming comment about natalie, etc etc. before this deleted scene dropped there clearly were handfuls of people who would do anything to tear this dynamic down and then they finally got the biggest chance to do so ... and they did! i've seen people call jackienat's whole dynamic 'completely fanon', people saying this was a satisfying scene to them because of jackienat shippers disliking shaunajackie, and excuses after excuses as to why this scene is, in fact, canon and why it works. overall it was just saddening to see? just feels like a good majority of yellowjackets fans see jackie as shauna's property rather than a fictional character people can do whatever with, so the idea of her having a relationship with natalie quickly became this threat that they had to belittle and claim as ooc at every given opportunity. which is weird! considering shauna has so many other ships that don't include jackie at all. it's also a little amusing since a good chunk of these people happen to ship shaunanat, most of them quickly rallying behind the 'nat pointing a gun at a pregnant shauna' scene as shipping fodder. don't think i've seen anyone saying 'oh shaunanats lost with this one' despite the heap of comments saying this for jackienat.
point is : i find the intent behind people's talk for this scene to be rather weird more than i find the scene itself to be sad or despairing. simply because it is just not canon. when scenes are cut for time, they've usually been filmed first -- considering that said scenes made it into the final, 100% solid script. this is true for the shauna and adam bdsm scene because we've seen clips of that in the actual show, meaning they filmed it and just cut it for time. same thing with a lot of s2's cut for time scenes! lots of the actresses and actors said these moments had been filmed but just didn't make the final cut. to me this signifies a time issue to some degree, especially given how long some of these scenes would've been! but the jackienat thing would've been a couple seconds tops? it was nothing more than jackie sitting outside and then the two of them passing her all while nat gives her a scathing, hateful look. considering we see shots of jackie sitting by herself with the cabin's front door in view, this would've been fairly easy to accomplish! i don't think people get that, per se. which to me signifies it was cut from the script before they started filming, or that by the time they got to the finale they saw this as ooc. idk. it just doesn't make sense for this to be cut for 'time issues' like the way some people are trying to argue. and even if this was the case, it proves that the writers deemed this moment as something unimportant enough to not include.
also, i don't see why this is the be all end all of jackienat either. is it bad to say this scene would've made me like them more? picturing this scene as canon and then having to watch natalie's anguish in s2 ep3 makes her guilt all the more agonizing to me, honestly. it was already such a hard hitting scene : seeing nat treat jackie's remains with respect, to see her shed her walls and be vulnerable with someone she didn't know well but cared for, and to get a peek into the fact she feels so guilty because, naturally, natalie sees this as her fault. they ate jackie because she couldn't find food fast enough. they killed her because she hadn't been there. these are things nat doesn't need to feel guilt and shame over, because jackie wasn't her responsibility or her friend, but she feels them anyway and she feels them intensely. now imagining this scene in a world where the deleted part was canon? awful! those emotions would've been way more heightened, all those personal blames would've had a fraction of truth to them, and natalie would be forced to acknowledge that when someone needed her help, she had just left them behind in the cold. something which would also intensify the pain of her watching javi drown in freezing water all while crying out to her ... a moment which she'd be wearing jackie's necklace. also, i'd find it kind of interesting that it'd be implied natalie has all these complexities and personal hatred over letting jackie taylor die just like shauna. they'd be the two who take her passing the hardest, the ones who blame themselves more than anyone else. to me that's just gayer than what we got canonically lol. but in turn, i think this could've been another reason why it was cut? this guilt and shame and hate was something reserved for shauna alone, because it's so pivotal to her character and growth, to the point that the writers couldn't let anyone really share that same feeling. it would've taken away from shaunajackie, i think, and what makes them special. if natalie genuinely had walked past jackie out of hate only for her to die the next morning, i believe we would've seen this guilt permanently etched into her character from the beginning. people forget just how quickly nat is to blame herself for things! and be very obvious about that blame! just feels like we would've known if natalie had left jackie out there on purpose, which isn't something we know at all in regards to the actual show.
anyway! i've rambled on quite enough. to me, this scene isn't that bad at all, and i don't think this takes away from the potential of jackienat whatsoever. there's really no evidence that it does! even in the worst case scenario of this scene being canon, it just makes the dynamic much more tragic, which fans eat up on this show. and at the end of the day i wouldn't give the discussions much attention, considering most peoples reasons for wanting this scene to be canon are very petty.
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I am going to do a dumb, emotional, pain-filled rant because my hyperfixation is Snow White (esp the dwarfs) and I just saw The Teens from Wish not too long ago.
Also hello Asha's mom and Valentino, I also love you. Anyway.
Hi.
I love and adore them. Adore. Please please please please please, I hope this movie is fantastic because look at them. Look at them.
And I do know the Doc inspired one's name. Her name is Dahlia and I am in love. In love. I love all of the outfits. I love the colors chosen (love the sassy purple on our lil Grumpy there). I love these choices. Most of all, I love the detail.
There's not a lot other than this scene and what Jennifer Lee has told us, but for higher resolutions, get as close as you can.
They have the same eyebrows (GASP) as their inspirations and predecessors. The same exact eyebrows. No really I got as close to Dahlia as I could and ran her against Doc.
Same eyebrow details. They're each rocking them. That's someone who cared to go look at the originals and really do some work. If you felt like Disney and Pixar have been phoning it in lately, that's a pretty specific detail to use. And those colors have been worn by the dwarfs if not in the original movie but appearances in picture books or comics. I would know. I own them.
While our Happy counterpart doesn't have Happy's original round, chubbiness, Dahlia does! So we're keeping some details people felt were important to their originals and still made them who they are. OKAY! I'll get used to Happy-teen (can't wait to learn your name!) not being round but... Dahlia! Beautiful!
Someone's paying attention and I really want to chat with them. Buy them coffee. Or some hard drugs idk how they swing but they deserve a little treat. Yeah I went from coffee to hard drugs, no donut. Ehhh.
What makes me sad is there's no way Wish can give me enough runtime to let me get to know each of these characters. But as a Doc fan (we are few but we are very opinionated), Dahlia is an amazing translation of his design for an inspired character. I love her. I love her wide-eyed amazement here.
Knowing she's Asha's "best friend" and "the brains" makes me fascinated to see what's next. I don't know if Doc's anxiety and doubts will follow, but it'll be interesting and I'm very hopeful to see what this inspiration will do. I can't wait to see what this brings to all of the characters. Because this? This is good. I am optimistic. This is good.
Okay and now I'm gonna let myself have a very nice cry because my brain needs to physically explode. Cool. Good talk. Bye.
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Poll about creating characters for a game really has me thinking about my methods because while I don't usually situate a character in the world/create a full backstory beforehand I feel like I need such a strong sense of who a character is, how they behave, and at least the skeleton of why they behave like that that I usually get bored and feel like I'm playing some flat nothing when I don't have that. I guess that isn't the same as having a fully rigid concept, especially since I'm happy to change things radically in conversation with a game when it's going well, but it's still enough of a distinct Guy Who Already Exists In My Brain I couldn't call it a loose concept. And usually when things go well for my looser concept characters and I develop them during a playthrough I just hit a point partway through where it's like... cool! I have completed the concept for this character now, I can stop playing and relocate them to a Real Story. They almost never feel like they fit right until they're in something where they're starting from that state, haha. I'm like this with tabletop stuff as well. I'm not always the ten page backstory guy but if I'm not at least coming in with some needlessly complex portrait of personality the character is not going to stick for more than a oneshot. Just doesn't interest me to play! I don't feel like I'm seeing through their eyes yet. Can't get in the right zone mentally. I think that's what it's really about for me- a loose concept is rarely immersive, and without that immersion I just struggle to feel like the actions are coming from the character instead of me and come together into a cohesive story about the character (rather than one about me pushing buttons).
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