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#Laudna is a shadow sorcerer in and of her own
feelslessfoodmore · 2 years
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Ok so after going through the tag I feel like I'm really not seeing enough people talking about how narrowly Orym avoided an Absolute Perma Death this last episode‽‽‽‽ Laudna making that perception check (which Matt was very reluctant in allowing to begin with!) single handedly decided Orym's fate.
Let's break it down real quick: 1) Matt said they were 300-400 feet up which is above the cap for max fall damage but below the height where you take more than a single round to hit the ground. Orym would've fallen to the surface of the planet and taken a fuck ton of fall damage well before Imogen could cast fly and catch up to him. (The fly spell makes the target hover so by rules as written, she technically wouldn't have been able to catch up anyways since she wouldn't've been able to free fall and would've had to descend at her 60 ft. fly speed.)
2) in the keyfish incident, Keyleth's body did not remain in one piece and I doubt Orym's would either. This combined with the time it would take to get the body back to F.C.G. would put them well outside the time like l limit of revivify.
3) And finally, all of that is predicated on the condition that they can even find his body at all!! That air ship was high in the sky, moving notably fast, with strong winds perfectly capable of blowing a halfling around mid air. Predicting where Orym would land would be way more difficult than just retracing steps. I can't remember if they were still above jungle or not but if they were they'd be pretty much fucked unless F.C.G. had locate object prepared (dead bodies are objects RAW but they also could just target something he'd had on him and hope it didn't go flying in the fall.) It could take days to find Orym and I don't think the captain would be willing to risk it since as they said falling overboard is usually a one and done deal.
Like that wasn't just the usual "Oh Orym is putting himself at risk in battle again and might die" because in those cases F.C.G. is right there, diamond at the ready if healing isn't enough.
This was Certain Death.
This was Liam makes a new character because the Hell's Bells do not have the connections to bring him back yet. No church connection, the only person they even know of capable of bringing him back is Keyleth and while there might be some Watsonian reasoning that the characters would think to go to her I just can't see the players wanting that. Asking Keyleth to fix all their problems just doesn't make for a fun campaign.
Orym keeps dancing with death but this was something so infitesimaly close to the end of his life that I'm convinced if Laudna had failed that roll Liam would've narrated how during the fall Orym sees a Raven and just watches it peacefully has he grips his tattoo. His last words before he hit the ground would be "I'm sorry" and then something about his husband being on the other side and getting to see him again, maybe even a "didn't make you wait as long as I thought I would I guess".
P.S. How poetic that it was Laudna who once again when faced with Certain Death –instead of kneeling to Fate– took that shit in hand and said fuck no.
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evilroachindustrial · 8 months
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It's still very funny to me that Laudna has these crazy shadow powers yet seemingly no interesting in why she was born with these powers.
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astoriacolumnstaircase · 11 months
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I am so glad we got some Prism backstory in the latest episode because this character is so fascinating. Her little break about being a bright and shiny rainbow in the middle of the shadowrealm and how she needed to see if there was more to the world, the fact that she said goodbye to her mother in a letter?! And then she spent ten years getting shoved aside in the lowest ranks of the cobalt soul, afraid to go back home because she had to find some way for it to be worth it.
And then we got Laudna telling her that she found it admirable, and that her own mother wanted that for her once. When Prism was introduced and acting a little salty about how sorcerers had power handed to them while she had to scrape for everything, I was hoping that Laudna would talk to her about that. Because, if she hadn’t died, Laudna might have followed that same path. It was lovely that Laudna could provide a bit of comfort for her.
Also also I love that a lot of it was in undercommon, Prism told Laudna that she hadn’t lost her accent, and asked how long it had been since she was in the shadow realm, and I had a feeling that Prism assumed Laudna was from the same place as her and it was cool to see shades of that.
That whole scene was so fun. Man, I love Prism Grimpoppy I hope we can keep her for a while.
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I keep seeing stuff about Imogen and the hope that other characters will speak to her and get her to open her eyes and realise her Undying (pun intended) love for Laudna.
White it would be fun to watch et al... I don't think it's needed. She knows. She is aware and cognisant, and has been for some time. At the earliest since the ring and the latest since Laudna's death. Especially now, without the noise and effort, she has all the clarity she needs.
I think she's also aware that Laudna ... Probably isn't in the same place. If anyone needs to speak to someone to help clarify things out would be her not Imogen.
It would be almost cruel to do that with Imogen, as she sees it as unrequited. Hence, my head canon is that she tries to dampen and temper how obvious she is. What we get is what slips out.
Imogen knows attraction and sex. I would be genuinely disappointed in how Laura was playing her if that wasn't the case. During Pretty and the dating question, let's acknowledge the huge dead space before she replies about not really dating. I have no doubt that is true. Dating and being a mind reader, not great. Let's also remember she was 18 when shit got real, lots of time. And let's also remember that you don't have to date to have any sort of sexual encounter. She is and was conventionally very beautiful. I have little doubt about her getting what she needs and keeping the rest short, as probably there are far less thoughts simmering around during sex.
That is clarity and experience that Laudna lacks, her 30 years on her own, and with her being a shadow sorcerer, she was probably markedly different from a young age.
So to get to the point, Laudna needs a speaking to, not Imogen.
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samcarter34 · 7 months
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I'm happy that Laudna seems to finally be actively engaging with the fact that she's a warlock (though I shouldn't get my hopes too high considering I thought this was going to happen after Issylra). Thinking about the implications of Hunger of the Shadow and that she is a warlock who is bound to a patron who appears to be using her to siphon power and whatnot.
I just hope that she also does the same with the fact that she's a sorcerer. Of the criticism I've seen of Laudna, a common note (and one that I happen to agree with) is that she's very passive in her own story and character. I think the sorcerer class kind of lends itself to this, since the bare minimum for sorcerer is 'I was born with magic', as opposed to say, a wizard or a fighter, where you at least have to answer why they studied their craft.
But also why is she a sorcerer? Where did her power come from? Why is she a shadow sorcerer? We know that her sorcerer powers predate her warlock pact, so it's not like her powers were a side effect of the pact? But then, Hound of Ill Omen is a shadow sorcerer ability and its form it specifically based on one of Delilah's dogs. Is that a conscious choice by Laudna? An unconscious choice? Is Delilah somehow infecting her sorcerous abilities? If that's true, was she always a shadow sorcerer or did her dying and coming back mutate her powers?
I think that the fact that Imogen's also a sorcerer, and one who's main plot (and the main plot) has been tied to the origin of her powers, may have resulted in Marisha putting Laudna's own relationship to sorcery on the back burner, but 7 out of Laudna's 10 levels are in sorcerer and yet at the moment her biggest connection to the class seems to be purely aesthetic.
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isagrimorie · 1 year
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So. Before Paté said 'if she dies, I die' I wasn't into the idea of a spark of Delilah in Paté but now that he's said that, I'm all: Oh. No.
I don't think he is, but Matt might have marked that down when Ashton/Tal brought it up!
But also, this is why I'm glad Laudna took another level of sorcerer over warlock! Because from here on out everything she will have is because of her own power.
I am curious about the purple shadow fire, I don't think it's because of Delilah, I think it is because Laudna is a Shadow Sorcerer. My theory is the reason for the similarity in color between Laudna and Delilah is because:
A) Both Laudna and Delilah have similar but not the same root of their power, Shadowfell. (Maybe, I'm a d&d novice, so I really don't know!).
B) Because Delilah's explosion of power, it forever changed Laudna's innate sorcerer powers.
C) The shadow boy might have represented Whitestone Andy but wasn't Whitestone Andy but something else.
Anyway, it's interesting!
But also, I'm gonna keep a weather eye on our favorite rat boy, Paté.
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xanthera · 2 years
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With all of the recurring themes of weakening/broken barriers between realms, I've got a theory about the source of Laudna’s magic, based on descriptions of the Shadowfell from the official sourcebooks. Per the section on Shadow Crossings from the DMG:
Similar to fey crossings, shadow crossings are locations where the veil between the Material Plane and the Shadowfell is so thin that creatures can walk from one plane to the other. A blot of shadow in the corner of a dusty crypt might be a shadow crossing, as might an open grave. Shadow crossings form in gloomy places where spirits or the stench of death lingers, such as battlefields, graveyards, and tombs. They manifest only in darkness, closing as soon as they feel light's kiss.
And from Tasha's description of the Shadow Sorcerer subclass:
You are a creature of shadow, for your innate magic comes from the Shadowfell itself. You might trace your lineage to an entity from that place, or perhaps you were exposed to its fell energy and transformed by it.
My theory is that Laudna has no magic in her bloodline, and that she came by her magic on her own. Specifically, some time during her childhood days of running around outside on the outskirts of Whitestone, she found a shadow crossing. A dark, shaded area in the woods where she would play alone when Andy and the other kids didn't want anything to do with her, whose near total darkness no matter the time of day never bothered her because it was her private sanctuary. Perhaps Laudna spent so much time in that weird halfway point that the magic from the Shadowfell rubbed off on her. In fact, maybe she very briefly crossed over into the Shadowfell itself, and then came back Just A Little Wrong...
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critical-derolo · 1 year
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Starlight twinkles softly above them as they drift through the low looming clouds of the night sky. Being up here, on the sky ship, it's the closest to peace most of them have ever - maybe will ever come to. The world down below, and its problems, cannot reach them up here. There is nothing but fresh air, a gentle light, and each other.
Orym sleeps out here most often, of course. The little Air Ashari would logically feel more at home up here than down below, so it naturally makes sense that he would sleep in such freedom as well. Laudna likes it, too, though, and steps outside in the dead of night as often as she can. When her sorcerer sleeps calmly, no wrinkle in her brow, her jaw unclenched. When the moon leaves her alone.
It's soothing, for the dead woman. It quiets the silence in her head that is so roaringly loud most days she cannot think clearly. Insanity, she's come to find, is just another word for noise. Far too much noise.
Tranquility is the exquisite lullaby of a softly whirring engine of a sky ship. The creak of wood shifting on air currents. The flap of sails catching a breeze. If they spent the rest of their days up here, Laudna would be more than happy. "Do you miss Dorian?"
"Oh, jeez!" Orym gasps, his entire tiny frame freezing in a moment before relaxing again. A small hand clutches his chest over his heart. "I didn't think you noticed me."
"Some part of me notices everything," Laudna replies ominously, her dark gaze never straying from the hazy clouds around them. "The rest of me just usually does not."
"Yes," he agrees. Or answers. The halfling climbs up onto a barrel of... something, he can't actually remember if anyone told him what is in it. Maybe just water? All the same, he gets comfortable closer to his companions, jerking his chin to a sleeping Imogen. "How's she doing?"
Finally, Laudna stirs. Her thin, pale lips tug up in the corner - the shadow of a beautiful smile. Beautiful. Like Imogen has always claimed, like Lady Vex'ahlia agreed. He can see it now, beyond the scary. Or within it. "She's sleeping well," Laudna says in a voice just as soft. Her long fingers brush a purple lock of hair from Imogen's face, tucking it behind her ear before plucking the thin blanket higher up over the girl's shoulder. Tucked into Laudna's side and lap, she could not look comfier, and Orym suddenly feels like he's intruding. "Do you miss Will?"
"Every day," he replies without missing a beat. "Do you miss Delilah?"
Laudna blinks and her smile turns bittersweet.
They have strange conversations, he realizes. When they're alone. He gains access to a very different Laudna than he's seen with the others, something softer, something deeper, something darker and more hopeful. Or scared. Hope and fear are a breath away from each other - maybe it's the breath that defines them. "It was bad but I don't think it's the worst thing that's ever happened to you."
Those black eyes slowly raise to meet his and he can see the gears turning, thoughts lacing together and forming a sharp lattice. How Imogen doesn't get cut on it, he has no idea, and wonders if Laudna softens for her or if she softens Laudna. Either way, on her own, in this moment, Orym can see the echo of Delilah on her face. "I realized that too late."
"We'll keep her safe," he promises.
Her head tilts just a little too far, some of that horror seeping back into her person. When she opens her mouth, she snaps it shut immediately and relaxes her pose. The darkness pulls back and, like the moon peeking out from behind a cloud, Laudna's kindness seeps into the space between them. "I know you'll do your best, Orym," she says in that lilting voice of hers. "I'm sorry."
"For what?"
"For scaring you."
"You don't," he insists and she blinks again. He smiles and glances off the side of the boat. "Not anymore, Spooky. I'm sorry."
"For what?" she echoes.
"For being a mirror." His little fingers twist in the air, a soft mossy green glow between them until tulip petals fall. Drift to the floor of the ship, through the air, trailing off into the sky. "Or my bad timing. I keep popping up in your quiet moments."
"Like a bad penny," she agrees with the warmest smile he's seen all night. "I like that."
"Do you?"
"It scares the others in a different way, in the same way Will scares them around you," she explains. "I would love to talk about Will."
It's sharp in his chest, like a jagged piece of glass that moves each time he breathes. But with the agony comes a subtle, almost intoxicating relief.
Taking a deep breath, Orym settles in more officially. His gaze swoops between the two women, the way their hands remain clasped even as Imogen sleeps, and remembers the many mornings he woke up with Will's hand in his. "He loved the night."
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myowndesertplaces · 6 months
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Eh, think this book is taking place over the span of 30 years between her leaving Whitestone and arriving in Marquet. Doubt that was ever going to be fully explored in-game anyway
What I'm more interested in seeing play out at the table is 1) Her Shadow Sorcerer powers that got her involved with Delilah in the first place and 2) a possible resolution to this warlock-patron relationship, however that may be
I'm considering this novel to be the equivalent to the M9 Origins - fleshing out backstory events that were mentioned in-game and giving us a look at these characters before they met the group
I agree that I don't think we were ever going to know the full story in game. However, I think we would understand the character better if we knew more (or anything at all for that matter) about this 30 year relationship with Delilah in her head.
For example, I'm interested in knowing how often she turned to Delilah to give her "strength" during other times of betrayal. We know Hunger of the Shadows has only existed since Bassuras, but has there been other times in her past where she has used Delilah to regain a sense of control in a dangerous or scary situation?
If Laudna is Delilah's puppet, how has Delilah puppeted her in the past? We've really only seen it once in the gnarlrock incident.
When did her sorcery powers develop and how did Delilah hear about Laudna? How does Laudna feel about her own power now?
Just a brief discussion about any other moments in her 30 year history with Delilah would go a long way in analyzing this character. Understanding her relationship with her past and Delilah is HOW we will get to the resolution of the Warlock-Patron relationship. So it feels weird to know so little about it in game.
Hopefully we will learn a little more in tonight's episode. I'm very interested to see what Marisha has planned for the walkabout in Whitestone. Again, I dont think we need to know everything about her past, but something outside of the book would be great.
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I saw a couple of theories about Laudna's new warlock status and I have a few thoughts.
Either Delilah's essence is enough to keep her warlock abilities up and running
Or
Imogen is her new patron because of the power of gay
Or
Her new patron is the Sun tree, hence the new look for her form of dread
Or my personal favorite
Her warlock patron is an undead, Laudna technically undead and a level 4 shadow sorcerer so she is her own patron
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Thoughts on Critical Role C3E3
Spoilers below the cut
Well, shit.  That really was a fantastic episode.  Lots happened, the group came together in various ways, and we got a proper gut-punch of an ending.  
- We’re learning a bit more about Imogen.  It seems like she either has memories or at least dreams of a great red tempest that’s tied to her past and likely tied to the way she got her powers.  I also think that it’s likely something happened to her family.  We’ll probably learn more as we go, but yeah, the more I see her the more I think Laura drew some definite inspiration from Caleb from last campaign.  I was also really impressed with her during the fight.  Seeing Laura cut loose was great, and once again reinforces that as she grows in power she’s going to be an absolute beast on the battlefield.
- Less Laudna this episode, which makes sense since last episode was her big lore-drop.  I think we did finally figure out what sorcerous origin she is.  We knew she was an Undead Warlock, but she also seems to have a Shadow origin, which fits her thematically.  If she’s going classic sorclock, she’ll have taken those initial levels in warlock and may now lean heavily into sorcerer, especially if she wants to go a mostly-magic build, so I’m guessing we’ll see what she can do and which of her classes she chooses to level when they bump to 4.
- FCG also didn’t get as much to do, although they got some clutch heals and damage shares in.  We also figured out what their ‘temp hit points’ when they share suffering can do.  They can actually turn them into damage against their enemies, which is a really neat trick to take damage meant for a PC and deflect it.  They’re also clearly very worried about Ashton, and I think with good reason, which brings us to ...
- Of all the new group, Ashton is the most withdrawn, the most held back.  He definitely contributes to battle plans and strategy, but he avoids talking about anything personal with anyone but the people from the crook house.  We found out a little more about him, though.  We now know that he’s got massive debts, huge damage to his reputation, and that ‘she’ comes around and is either a danger or at least a trouble to him, and seems to be tied with the last crew he ran with, which went very south, hard enough that the thought of a new group seems to intrigue them and scare the shit out of them in equal measure.  It seems like he might have been betrayed by a patron, because his reaction to Lord Eshteross is to avoid talking to him at all costs, and he looked genuinely worried when that cake came out.  Something really bad went down with his last patron, some huge betrayal.  I don’t know if ‘she’ is a former colleague or connected to that patron, but I’m guessing we’ll find out at the worst possible time.  They once again demonstrated the coin-flip approach to their life, when deciding whether or not to stay with the group, he let FCG be the one to do it.  But it’s clear they’re doing their best not to get attached, to hold all the others and everyone else at arms’ length.  Their reaction to Danica’s death was cold, mercenary, and shows a sort of bleak outlook that I think reflects as much about them as it does about her.  I think Ashton thinks he’s done something terrible, that he tangled with the wrong life, and now he’s on borrowed time too.  These people could probably save him, but it’ll be a long while until he opens up enough to let them try.  I’ll be interested to see how the events at the end of the episode effect them.  They still aren’t that close with this group, but still.  It’s the first chance on people they’ve taken in a long time.
- We still don’t know much about Fearne, although she remains a guaranteed source of hilarity and chaos.  I’m interested to see how a creature of the Feywild fits into this group long-term, and how living in this plane of existence will effect her.  She right now very much retains her own sense of otherness, but that may fade over time.  I also loved the Bert and Fernie joke, as thier duo was one of my favorites.
-   Orym was mostly support this time, though I really hope he finds a way to up his CON and AC.  He’s way too squishy right now, and the dex does not seem to save him as much as we’d hope.  It was interesting to find out that the person he was looking for is a ‘good thing’, not something dangerous.  We also found out that there is a shadowy someone or something he’s seen before, masked in dark clothing, and the look on his face says that that is a sad and painful story, very possibly tied to why he wants a fresh start in Marquet.
- Dorian was great, and I’m liking Robbie as a part of the group more and more.  My theory about him is that he’s a special guest, but they’re using this as a testing ground to see if he wants to stay, if Matt feels like he can run a table of eight comfortably, and if it fits with the story.  I like Dorian a lot, and I think he adds something to the group.  Him and Imogen made a good team as faces for the group, and I liked the balance between retaliation against Bertrand for being an ass in the darkness, but also forgiving him and playing him music.  Their final scene, and Bertrand’s little confessions about his former group and about not really knowing anything about the city were beautifully bittersweet.  
- And then we get to Bertrand.  I was always half expecting it, given his higher level and the fact that Travis seemed to be deliberately holding back in combat, but it’s a tribute to Travis that over the course of three episodes he really made me love this ridiculous old man, to the point that his death at the end of the episode was a genuine gut-punch.  And I think it was partly because, in the end, after being a coward, and betraying his party, and being a cad time and again, Betrand made a stand.  He refused to collaborate with the dwarf, refused to even entertain the notion.  He stood proud, happy with the fact that he was finally back on top, part of a good group of people.  He was out to see one more sunrise.  As soon as he said that, I suspected things might go wrong.  But Travis sold the shit out of it, and I’ll admit that it ached to hear Matt describe him walking into the tempest in Imogen’s vision as he lay, bleeding out in the alleyway.  I’m sure I’ll like Travis’ new character plenty, but damn, I’m going to miss this adventuring grandpa in amazing clothes.
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flowercoasts · 2 years
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i have too many thoughts about warlock patron delilah. we heard from her once so far, and that was to tell laudna to keep quiet about their arrangement. but why? what does delilah want? why is she even in a pact with laudna? what was she telling laudna for 30 years? we know laudna did not initiate the pact, as she says she suddenly had delilah speak to her a year after delilah died.
what exactly is going on in laudna’s backstory?
we know that laudna went to the briarwoods with her family to talk about her powers, but they “walked into a trap”. laudna dies, and comes back to life as a Hollow One a few days later, courtesy of delilah’s “necromantic blast”. with everything going on during vox machina’s reclamation of whitestone, laudna was able to slip away and went into isolation for 30 years. however this does not explain why delilah waited a year to initiate contact with laudna - unless laudna believes she died in Whitestone when cassandra de rolo killed her, and is unaware that delilah actually died around a year later in Thar Amphala.
now here comes my absolutely batshit theories revolving around laudna’s death.
“the experiment theory”: we know that delilah was very much experimenting with cloning herself, and most likely already had her first clone ready by the time that laudna died. it would be awesome if laudna is one of delilah’s clones, but unless laudna is lying about her entire backstory, that is not possible. back to laudna meeting with the briarwoods, it’s possible that the briarwoods could’ve just killed her outright, but it’s also possible that laudna was experimented on. since cloning herself takes around 120 days, delilah probably wanted a backup plan/failsafe/personal minion. delilah could’ve picked laudna - for whatever reason; maybe she saw potential, maybe laudna was just the closest body. either laudna is a failed experiment (of which we don’t know the specifics of) and delilah kills her, or delilah kills her and reanimates her to have power over her. either way, laudna dies and comes back to life - presumably by delilah’s “necromantic blast”. in doing so, it creates a bond between the two, with delilah’s blast being the “gift” that fueled laudna into coming back to life as a Hollow One (also noted that Matt and Marisha mentioned “gifts” plural when delilah spoke to laudna). the downside to this theory is that if delilah purposefully brought her back to life, how did she lose sight of her and how did she keep laudna as a loose thread for a year?
“the sorcerous origin theory”: this is reliant on laudna’s sorcerous origin being “shadow magic” which i am 99% sure that it is, since marisha mentioned the “eyes of the dark” ability in the fight vs dugger. we don’t know when exactly laudna gained her supernatural abilities, just that she gained them when she was a “young girl”. it could be possible that laudna gained her magical abilities due to the ziggurat sphere that was a portal to Shadowfell - it seems sort of unlikely due to the fact that the briarwoods were in power for five years (placing laudna around the age of 15 at the start of their rule) and didn’t uncover the ziggurat for probably a while. it’s possible that laudna’s power comes from something else, but the shadow magic (as stated in the subclass) comes from Shadowfell itself. if laudna’s magic did only appear after the ziggurat sphere was placed, it would make sense that her family would be overjoyed at the sudden surge of power and hoping to gain favor with the briarwoods. again, unlikely, since laudna references “always having innate magical capabilities”. the timeline there does not necessarily fit for words like “always” and “young girl”. in any case, it is possible that laudna’s own magical capabilities either reacted strangely with delilah’s necromantic blast or the presence of the Shadowfell portal reacted with laudna’s sorcery, and laudna’s innate magic gave her the “gift” in coming back to life as a Hollow One. this reduces delilah’s influence and means that delilah‘s bond with laudna not as strong or overt as the other theory.
and there are still too many questions unanswered. why and how did delilah begin speaking with laudna and form a pact with her? what does delilah want? if laudna is telling the truth about her backstory, why does delilah not order laudna to do things? did she just watch for 30 years as she went from town to town? laudna only stopped her town-hopping to go find answers with imogen, and that seems like laudna’s only goal: find answers on how to get delilah out of her head. why isn’t delilah stopping her? why is she so quiet? delilah seems annoyed at times when speaking to laudna. is it possible delilah does not want to be in a pact with her?
and, again, this is going off of the idea that laudna’s patron is actually delilah, and not just vecna pretending to be her.
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isagrimorie · 1 year
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i wonder if laudna will get to meet another shadow sorcerer so she can finally understand more about herself and the origin of her powers that is her own.
and also i wonder if laudna gets to keep “hunger of shadows”?
is the power siphoning thing a deilah thing or is that purely a laudna thing?
is that the reason why her sorcerer powers became shadow magic? because her body absorbed delilah’s necrotic blast?
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