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trashlie · 2 years

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Why I Ship Stalkyoo

I think today is the day.

I think I’m going to finally write about why I ship Stalkyoo.

There will be FP spoilers, because this current arc is just reigniting a lot of my feelings, so here is your warning. This is going to be a mess but I’m going to do my best to a. not write the illiad in here and be. go all over the place but it’s me so what do you guys expect? (Spoilers no more! All mentioned content is now released.)

Without further ado: LET’S TALK STALKYOO/AEGI.

The more I’ve been dwelling on Alyssa and Nolyssa in general (and the potential of Nol indefinitely saddling himself to Alyssa), and the general trajectory of this arc, the more I’ve been coming back to a certain point: why is it that I ship Stalkyoo so fiercely and am not into the idea of them as platonic soulmates? I LOVE platonic soulmates - friends whose bonds transcend your typical expectations of friends, who understand each other so inherently and just get each other in ways other people don’t. Often to me a platonic soulmate pair complements the actual ship - the elements that the ship lacks, the platonic pair fulfill. In my own personal life, I love platonic soulmates! I’m convinced my best friend is my soulmate, someone I was fated to meet who fulfills relationship needs that other relationships don’t.

So why can’t I see Stalkyoo as platonic?

Ultimately I think it’s just a matter of taste. To me, the kind of relationship Nol and Shinae have shown to have (until, you know, Nol started sabotaging himself, and I guess even then still lol) is my ideal when it comes to pairings, and it’s the kind of ship I always gravitate towards. We all have our own favorite tropes and dynamics and Nol and Shinae fulfill so much of those for me: the emotional connection and understanding, the people who make each other into better versions of themselves, the gravitational pull towards one and other, the moments of tender intimacy. I’m going to speak of Stalkyoo as though we know for sure it will happen lol because I guess that’s how we all ship, right? And in that case, Stalkyoo is set up as one hell of a slowburn, and god am I a SUCKER for characters who quietly fall without realizing it until one day they wake up and the truth sits on their chest like a 20 pound cat, paralyzing and maybe even, dare they say, lovely? Characters who slowly become afflicted by the other, moments of tender intimacy that build up over time until they realize that somehow, all of those moments lead them to this realization.

I’ve already written at length the foundations of Stalkyoo, which was so long ago that it doesn’t even include some painful but fantastic reveals seen in our current FP episodes, particularly ep 170. The continued parallel stories and trajectory of Stalkyoo absolutely is a big sway in my shipping, I think (which is funny, because I don’t particularly ship Kolyssa, even though they, too, are a mirrored pair). I guess there’s something about two characters on a similar journey that makes me push them towards each other, because who better to understand you and the darkest, most secret parts of you than a person who has been through something similar? Shinae has not been made to feel worthless and degraded by her family (to some extent), but she has been made to feel worthless and unimportant in general through the bullying she went through and society in general. She was made acutely aware from a young age that her background makes people look down on her - she was listening to her bully’s mom yell at the principal “Do you know who my husband is”, listening as the boy’s mom all but said the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree, that she won’t amount to anything. Shinae is a nobody and the world made sure she knew it.

And even though she has a loving father, he kept things from her that ultimately made her life more difficult and literally put them in danger of eviction! His pride and shame conflicted with his parental duties and even though they didn’t end up evicted, Shinae still wound up in a dangerous situation because she was desperate enough to get tangled up in something awful. Realistically, she never would have reached out to Kousuke for a job had the situation not been so dire, and Yui would never have ensnared her in both the formal attendance and the job where at she feels unsafe. And that’s not to touch on the fact that her mother left her and took her sister, making her as a child worry that she had done something wrong, that she wasn’t good enough for them, that something was wrong with her. Internalizing this from a young age coupled with the bullying she received and we can see how she’s not that far off from Nol’s sense of worthlessness, too. One is clearly worse than the other but the takeaway point is that their experiences are similar enough that, were they to actually open up, they would be able to understand each other, and why they feel the way they do.

And in addition to that understanding, I think it poses them as characters who are able to have the most influence over each other. We’ve already seen it in Shinae, who found herself wanting to emulate and develop certain traits Yeonggi had and felt the effects of those traits. Yeonggi’s dogged persistence in being a shoulder to Shinae helped her to understand that leaning on people isn’t weak. Sure, she’s leant on the wrong people in the past, but when you lean on the right ones, isn’t it nice, to know you’re not so alone? That you aren’t a burden, because these are people willing to be a shoulder, who want to be.

Both Shinae and Nol have gone through the experiences of feeling unwanted. Nol thinks (or knows) that most people only clamor to him because of his money and his family’s influence, and they want to make nice with him. Later, they continue because they fear that if he finally snaps, at least if they were nice to him maybe he’d spare them. Shinae, too, thinks that her friends aren’t friends with her for legit reasons (and she’s not entirely wrong). Learning that Maya was only her friend at the request for Minhyuk was a shattering revelation of something she’d already suspected.

So for these two to find friendship in each other - in people who genuinely reach out to them time and time again and want to be there for each other and want to help - is a really special kind of bond. Forming friends of your own volition - not because they have ulterior motives or they’re doing it as a favor or because they are burdened to do so - honestly makes everything about their friendship all the more special, and it’s what makes 151 hurt so MUCH. Shinae, at this point, is coming to grips with just how important Nol is to her, and to finally open up and trust someone who throws you aside the way you’ve always felt people do, that you mean nothing to them? Is absolutely PAINFUL. And it’s obviously painful to Nol, because he wouldn’t have dropped his Nolan mask to hug her that way if that wasn’t the case. And man I will never EVER stop howling about that moment, how he’s literally trying to throw his friends away but also cannot bear for Shinae to think the whole thing was fabricated and meant nothing. It obviously meant everything to him, to have someone on his side who reached out to him and cared about him.

He cares so much that he struggles to resist his friends, too. When he looks at his spam messages and sees the messages from the friends he’s blocked, he turns right around and throws everything to the wind. Nol throws back drink after drink because he wants to forget, he wants to be numb, he doesn’t want to deal with the guilt and the hurt and the aching longing. He wants to be with his friends and he all but says it when he tells Alyssa he doesn’t want to be here and he wants to be somewhere he actually wants to be. He’s miserable and having to stay away from his friends just compounds that misery.

I’m not saying this is about Shinae in particular, but I think it’s worth acknowledging that as the person who is arguably fighting hardest, that’s a factor. (I’m not saying Dieter isn’t fighting hard, but rather, I think Dieter is trying to respect Nol’s decisions but Shinae struggles to accept it and keeps hoping that maybe, maybe he’ll change his mind.) What we can say for certain though is that Shinae is amongst the few people who Nol wants to be around, and I think that’s significant. The juxtaposition of being her with his actual girlfriend but yearning to be elsewhere... I think that alone says a lot lol.

In fact, as I’ve said time and time again, Nolyssa and Stalkyoo are major foils, which to me, illuminate both that Nolyssa is not a healthy relationship and that Stalkyoo fills in those gaps. I don’t call Nolyssa an unhealthy relationship because of what I ship, either - in fact, the foiling pushes me to ship Stalkyoo because of what it illuminates about Nolyssa. If they aren’t meant to illuminate how RIGHT Shinae and Nol are - how she says and does the things Nol wants Alyssa to do, how she sees the things Alyssa doesn’t, how she CARES - then why bother to foil them? Why set them up to contrast each other if we aren’t supposed to compare them and see the ways that one is better than the other?

If there were ever feelings between Nol and Alyssa, they’re long gone. Alyssa has, for a long time, been taking Nol for granted, and maybe there was a time when he was okay with knowing Alyssa was busy but it probably wasn’t as bad as it is now. But she never stops to consider if this bothers him. Never stops to think maybe he’s not actually okay. It’s convenient for HER, so she carries on. Nol’s feelings are an inconvenience for her. Does Nol know that whenever Alyssa is “too busy” for him, she seems to be busy with Meg? That she has no time to text him a hey I miss you how are you doing but has time to make cupcakes with Meg? And that’s the other thing - a conversation doesn’t have to happen in the moment? Alyssa could respond to him hours later - but she doesn’t. She shows no signs of interest in Nol or how he’s doing or what he’s doing. Again, for her, he’s a matter of convenience and she’s not going to get rid of him while he’s still useful, but she’s not going to expend any effort, either.

And that’s what’s particularly sad. I’ve thought for a long time about what Nol’s “benefit” of being with Alyssa is. The general belief seems to be that she affords him protection from his family - that having a famous girlfriend is the one good thing he’s achieved. But how much protection is it, really? Especially when Yui could just as easily destroy Alyssa’s career! I think more than that, Nol’s relationship was meant to make him feel less alone. He even tells Alyssa that “you know I’m already invisible to my family and all their friends” - a girlfriend is supposed to be someone who puts him ahead of the others, who SEES him and cares. One of he major aspects of who Nol is is his profound loneliness. He is nothing. And he desperately wants to be more than that. He desperately wants to mean something, to have people who care about him.

(Ironically when he does have this, he pushes them away. His want is at odds with what he thinks he deserves, which is likely why he continues to shackle himself to Alyssa. He isn’t really receiving a benefit the way she is, but he believes he doesn’t deserve better, so maybe he can go on pretending.)

Even though Alyssa doesn’t engage in the conversations he wants, Nol kept trying, and to me that reads less as he still likes her and wants to make the relationship work as much as, yes, his benefit was supposed to be the feeling of feeling seen and so he kept trying in hopes that it would finally work out. And it never really does, does it?

Obviously, this is heavily in contrast to Shinae and Nol, although there’s some interesting parallels. Like Alyssa, Nol is being stand-offish with Shinae, trying to keep a berth of space between them, but it’s not a matter of taking Shinae for granted, which is what makes it different. But like Nol to Alyssa, Shinae almost doggedly chases down Nol, reaching out to him over and over when she feels like he’s avoiding her, pulling a Nol and stalking him !!! at work when she thinks he feels out of reach and she’s trying to pull him back in. But that’s where the parallel ends, at the surface, because the intentions and meanings behind their behavior are ultimately different. Shinae isn’t chasing down Nol to keep up a ruse - she’s doing it because she’s genuinely afraid of losing him and wants to reach other and be a real friend to him. Nol isn’t taking Shinae for granted or just stringing her along - he’s pushing her away for her benefit, because he thinks himself a dangerous person who doesn’t deserve her. These parallel dynamics are starkly in contrast with each other, and seeing that illuminates what Nol and Shinae mean to each other.

Isn’t it ironic, that Nol stays with Alyssa because this is what he thinks he deserves and pushes away Shinae because he believes he doesn’t deserve her? Love that foiling, baby!

And this is such a STRONG element of what makes me ship them. It’s that Shinae cares SO MUCH and that Nol SO BADLY wants to accept and reciprocate but won’t let himself but that EVEN AS HE TRIES TO FIGHT IT he still caves. Time and time again he caves! In the locker room he goes from angling away from Shinae to angling in, at the Wacdonalds she’s able to convince him to stay until her break, he returns phone calls he tried to ignore, he shows up to take her to work when she’s late (AND SHOULDERS THE RESPONSIBILITY FOR IT), he defends her behind her back, he relents to a break together at work and reveals that he’s a person who wears masks.

Shiane disarms him! Even in the moment she shows up at his school, when he tries his damndest to evade her, he still breaks. And though he ultimately still walks away from her, it’s not without wordlessly telling her that she never meant nothing that she was never nothing and only because he recalls the pool incident (only because he’s reminded of how he’s hurt her) is he able to resume his mask and complete this task.

There’s a reason Nol has his friends blocked and won’t see them. There’s a reason he starts to drown his misery in alcohol. Avoiding everyone isn’t easy, and he knows that seeing them would likely undo all of his decisions.

Shinae disarms him - he cannot allow himself to face her.

And idk about you, but god that means everything to me? People who are just so important to each other, who have SO MUCH SWAY and influence. People who have carved a space in your heart that is impossible to fill, impossible to avoid. How am I to NOT ship that? How am i to NOT root for them?

This is my answer to why I can’t envision them as platonic soulmates: because how could they have any other romantic partner when they regard each other in such a high degree that they undo each other, disarm one and other so completely and wholly? How can a romantic partner “compete” with that kind of relationship? There’s something so incredibly poetic about them, to me, these parallel lines running the same course together, drawn to one and other, unable to resist one and other. Nol built trust in Shinae where it didn’t exist! He helped her to feel worthy of peoples’ feelings! He convinced her to open up and give others a chance and showed that it feels good!!! To have people care!!! To notice!!!! He provided her a sense of security, because they’ve endured danger together and he carries her secrets and most importantly, she’s felt safe with him. Even if Nol tries to fight against it, a part of him wants to let Shinae care, he wants her concern. Where Alyssa never asks him how he is or shows worry, Shinae does. Where Alyssa doesn’t apologize for hurting him, Shinae does! Where Alyssa makes him feel just as invisible as his family does, SHINAE SEES HIM AND SHINES A LIGHT ON HIM. We are meant to see this and compare them. We are meant to see that Shinae fulfills a role Nol wishes for.

Nol doesn’t even know!!!! That whenever Shinae runs into Dieter and Soushi, she asks about him. Until she shows up at his school, I’m not sure if he even realized how much he’d grown to mean to her - he spent so long pushing her away and trying to pawn her off on Dieter I don’t think he ever lets himself believe he means that much to her. Seeing her at his school is a legitimate shock to him!

God, they just ILLUMINATE each other, both people used to living in the shadows of others, used to being overlooked and passed up. They are also able to see in each other the strengths they mutually share: though Shinae tries to fight it, she does care a lot and she doesn’t like to see people taken advantage of or bullied or mistreated. Nol time and time again reaches out to lonely people who could use a friend. We’ve seen Shinae echo Nol’s words back to other people, because she doesn’t like them feeling upset or beating themselves up. (They also turn this on each other a lot, because who better to know what they need to hear than someone who mirrors them?)

Nol is heavily responsible for being the push Shinae needed to grow and soften her harsher edges - for opening up to people and letting down her guard and talking about her problems and proactively trying to be a better friend to those around her and for valuing herself - and I think we will see the same in time, because as mirrors, what one does ought to follow with the other. Nol has been on a self-sabotaging journey, but I want to hope that his pool dive has rebirthed him as a version of himself ready to accept what he deserves. I think that’s a bit too simple, given that he’s got a lot of baggage he’s internalized and fears himself a dangerous person. But still. I want the Nol who resurfaced to be someone who is ready to fight back against his family and do it by not giving them the satisfaction. Not giving them the satisfaction of denying himself what he wants, of making him feel invisible, of making him feel worthless.

Obviously the Nol who resurfaced seems a little devil may care and yeah that’s worrying lol but I hope, at the very least, he’s someone who is willing to listen to his deeper desires? As a person who denies himself what he actually wants as self-punishment, he has effectively been playing into his family’s hand. They already treat him like nothing, to embrace nothing in that way only reinforces them.

Of course, he might go a whole other direction than I’m hoping, in which case BIG SIGHS lol

What I AM confident in, though, is that no matter what direction Nol ends up on, he and Shinae will return to each other, whether it’s somehow in the near future or if it has to happen after a time skip, after they’re both older and more ready to face things. I do worry that an edgier version of Nol will make Shinae uneasy (she specifically told him she wants the Yeonggi back she made friends with, and Nol has abandoned him for now) and they may butt heads for awhile. I think there’s also a lot of hurt to reconcile with and while Shinae may be willing to accept Nol showing up she will still want him to EXPLAIN himself eventually. Will he be willing to do that any time in the near future? Do we have to wait and see a reconciliation post-jail, at Shinae and Dieter’s graduation? Idk, but what I’m CERTAIN of is that even if there are roadbumps and turmoil ahead, Shinae and Nol WILL ultimately make their ways back to each other, because as we know, they are magnetically drawn to each other, compelled to return to one and other, on parallel paths.

Like, hello, the entire pool scenes?! The both of them with their own pool experiences, both coming out (hopefully?) stronger and for the better? For Shinae, it was the moment that lies came to truth and revealed even more truths (Yui is DANGEROUS) and made her see those around her a little differently. It ended her more naïve arc and brought out more of a fight in her. I think we could argue something similar for Nol - he’s pretty naïve to keep thinking that Yeonggi could be a protection for him, or that he can continue to shoulder and endure things. He, too, comes out less naïve, perhaps ready to fight back harder. Their mutual rebirths will, hopefully, bring out the best in them. After all, not that I’d say it’s DUE to her fall, but we do see a Shinae who tries harder after her fall, who opens up more. Will we see the same for Nol? How much will this particular parallel reflect each others’ experiences?

(This doesn’t even begin to TOUCH on how Shinae may react to his jump - to such a risky dangerous act, and how she might be the one to read it for what it was: a cry for help. While I think she’ll probably be angry and upset about it, I think it would be in the way that you get angry at a friend for degrading themselves, angry that they would do something so scary. Angry because she cares and because knowing he hates himself so much hurts her. I think she would be the person to express the concern Nol needs.)

But again, it’s these shared experiences combined with their tender, intimate moments that just make me ACHE for them to open up to each other more, for Nol especially to let down his guard. He’s seen her go to bat for him - LITERALLY up against Sangchul who drugged AND TRIED TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF HER - in his defense. I want him to finally accept!!!! That it’s okay for him to let people care!!! That he doesn’t have to cut off everyone and isolate and live in the shadows, invisible to all!

Like, not to be TOTALLY ME or anything but I’m back ruminating on the Wacdonalds scene of 117, where Nol opens up, JUST a bit to Shinae, JUST ENOUGH, and how he immediately shakes off her attempt to comfort him... only to lead into another tender, intimate moment. Even romantic implications removed, Nol sharing one of his favorite songs with someone like Shinae like that? GOD got me bark bark barking at the MOON. What am I supposed to do with this scene, with their heads tucked close together like this, shared earbuds tethering them to one and other (THEY ARE TETHERED TO ONE AND OTHER), the way she just TAKES IN HIS FACE like that and gets flustered? What IS this if not a moment of absolute TENDER intimacy, of something secret shared. Nol sharing his favorite song is akin to sharing a part of himself, exposing something vulnerable. The entire episode is him divulging small pockets of truth that he’s been holding close - that maybe he should go along with everything, that maybe he deserves all of the bad things that happen to him and nothing will ever change, that it’s nice to know someone cares. Even without viewing it as a romantic scene, it’s hard to read it as anything BUT a foundation for their mutual understanding of each other, their shared trajectory, the way they gravitate to each other and open up parts of themselves to one and other. Shinae doesn’t know what Nol is going through or the burden he’s shouldering, but she knows he needs comfort, and she’s one of the only people who gives him that. Hours later, at home, Shinae can’t get the song out of her head and plays over the memory, unable to shake the experience!!!! It meant something to her, and even if not romantic, it was significant enough to burrow into her heart.

Pardon me while I HOWL AT THE MOON.

Going back to my earlier point about the benefit of Nol staying with Alyssa, I hope he’s able to start seeing that what he’s been looking for is actually in a totally different place. Maybe he already knows, and that’s why he kept pulling away from Shinae - again, he struggles to accept that he deserves more than he gets, so it’s easier to accept what he receives from Alyssa. But if what Nol craves is for someone to shine a light on him, for mutual shared comfort, to have someone who reminds him he’s not invisible... he doesn’t have to look too far, does he?

I guess that’s the other thing about shipping - it WOULD be a beautiful friendship, people who fulfill those needs. But it would also be a beautiful romantic relationship, too - people whose souls have imprinted SO STRONGLY upon one and other, people who so INTIMATELY understand each other and see things that others don’t. Shinae asking “You don’t hate yourself, do you?” because she’s been there, she, too, has hated herself and blamed herself for things that weren’t her blame at all, she knows what that awful aching is like and she doesn’t want it for him, she wants him to know what a good person he is. He’s someone who reaches out to and collects lonely people like her and helps them become better versions of himself. He’s someone who cares about others’ feelings and thinks everyone deserves respect and kindness. This is the stuff that makes me ship it so ARDENTLY - because the moment these two let down their walls and let each other in all the way, they will become SO powerful. At every turn, they lift up each other and elevate them into better versions of themselves. And most importantly, they carry so much CARE for each other. They hold one and other with such HIGH regard, what is it if not deep affection each other? If Nol didn’t care so much, it would be easier to face Shinae and walk away. But she’s taken everything he ever said and did for her (EVERYTHING HE PROBABLY WISHED OTHERS WOULD DO FOR HIM) and served it right back to him. HOW CAN HE RESIST THAT? Of course it disarms him, to have someone offer exactly what he’s always wanted. Every time he’s ever reached out for her, having to stop himself from what he thinks he doesn’t deserve - but instinctively wants anyway?

IS THAT NOT LOVE? To provide for each other the things they need? To fill in their gaps? To be drawn to each other want to give and receive comfort? To reassure them that the lies they believe are just that - lies?

And while yes, Nol has a lot of internalized bagger that he’ll need to learn to let go of, I do sincerely believe Shinae will be the person to make Nol see that he is not nothing- that he is more than others have convinced him he is, that he deserves the things he covets, and that he’s a better person than he believes. He did it for her and that means she will likely be the one to do it for him. It is her ardent belief in him that will ultimately help him embrace that part of himself, I think.

Obviously, a lot is in the air at this point. Is there any possibility for Nol to go see his friends before the night is over? Do we have to wait until graduation, or worse, the big time skip? Will we see Shinae try to let go of Nol and have to contend with how much he means to her in the future when he reappears? Will we want him go on a quest for revenge and slowly start to lose himself in the process?

No matter the route their story goes, I think they will continue to mirror each other and share parallel events, and that ultimately Shinae will be one of the people who helps bring Nol back to himself. Even in a worst case scenario, where Nol’s quest for revenge turns him into the very monsters that broke him, I think it’s Shinae who will ground and tether him, remind himself of who he is - not who his bitter resentment has turned him into. That’s the power I think they have on each other - that no matter how much they stray, they ultimately will return to each other, and bring out the best in one and other.

Like, at this point, they ARE tethered. At the Kim formal, Shinae saved Nol as much as he saved her, and I hope one day she knows it. I hope one day she knows that they are equally important people in each others’ lives, and that without the other, they wouldn’t be the people they are now! Nol literally might not be here if not for her! Shinae may never have learned to open up, to try to become a better friend! They are irrevocable forces in each others’ lives, and how can they not ever come to see that, to know that? How can I NOT ship people who continue to be drawn back to one and other, time and time again? How can I not ship people who are SHOWN to us via foils to be SO VERY RIGHT for one and other? How can I NOT want them to help fill the holes in each other’s hearts in the unique ways that they know best?

LISTEN I’M SO FULL OF FEELINGS

#I Love Yoo #Stalkyoo #Shinae Yoo #Aegi #Nol #Yeonggi #Nolan Oliver T. Lochlainn #Alyssa Cho #Nolyssa #ILY Brainrot #I DID IT HOLY SHIT I DID IT #and it's still not as good as i'd like it to be BUT I DID IT AND I'M PUTTING IT INTO THE WORLD #there's so many scenes i didn't talk about but at that point i'd just be dissecting things rather than demonstrating what elements make me #feel the ways that i do #and ultimately i have come to the conclusion that:#i cannot accept these two people as platonic when they mean so much to each other and are such important INTEGRAL parts of each others' live #and that's the thing #they are INTEGRAL #nol is realizing that it's not that easy to just remove her from his life #and i think we could see a trajectory that if he continues to do so he'll stray further and further down the wrong path #that it's only when they are together when they are working together that they both can become better versions of themselves #AND GOD THAT'S FUCKING ROMANTIC TO ME OKAY?#THEY BRING OUT THE SOFT IN EACH OTHER #THEY ALWAYS GO TO BAT FOR ONE AND OTHER #EVENW HEN NOL WAS PULLING AWAY HE WAS STILL DEFENDING SHINAE AND SHE GOES AGAINST HER ABUSER ON HIS BEHALF?!#THEY ARE EACH OTHERS' WEAKNESSES THEIR SOFT SPOTS BUT ALSO THEIR STRENGTHS AND LISTEN THAT JUST MEANS EVERYTHING TO ME #I LOVE THOSE PAIRINGS THE MOST #WHEN IT'S SO TENDER AND LADEN WITH MUTUAL UNDERSTANDING WHEN BOTH PARTIES MEAN SO MUCH AND BRING OUT EACH OTHERS' BEST

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kimione · 2 years

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Nolalyssa / Nolyssa!

#Nolalyssa #Nolyssa #Nol x Alyssa #Yeong gi x Alyssa #I love yoo #I love yoo webtoon #Alyssa Cho

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kimione · 2 years

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Nolalyssa / Nolyssa!

#Nolalyssa #Nolyssa #I love yoo #Nol x Alyssa #Alyssa Cho #I love yoo webtoon #Yeong gi x Alyssa

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kimione · 11 months

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#Nol x Alyssa #Nolyssa #Nolalyssa #Alyssa Cho #i love yoo

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kimione · 1 year

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Sunsets and Sunrise

Pairings - Nolalyssa, Shinlyssa

Summary-

When you love someone, you run the risk of hate. And when you're like Nol, who feels every emotion as strongly as a gust of wind, it's only natural you'd want to protect your heart.

Against one winter backdrop, two lovers confront their past and write their future, all the while wondering if they're seeing the sunrise or the sunset of their relationship and if there's any actual difference between the two.

#Nolyssa #Nolalyssa #i love yoo #Alyssa Cho #i love yoo webtoon #nol hirahara #i love yoo fanfic

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kimione · 1 year

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Mind Over Matter

Pairing - Nol x Alyssa, Shin ae & Alyssa.

Summary - She hated being the powerless, helpless girl who sacrifices everything for love. She liked being in love, the idea of it at least -who doesn't- but she liked being empowered more.

Love finds her anyway.

#i love yoo #i love yoo webtoon #Alyssa Cho #Nolalyssa #Nolyssa #i love yoo fanfic

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trashlie · 2 years

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Nol & Alyssa’s Past

Recently I’ve been thinking a lot about what happens when Nol and co find out about Alyssa’s past with Shinae. I, and I think a lot of fandom, have kind of always assumed that it will cast her in a bad light and could be a big breaking point for Nol, assuming he’s still with her. It would especially be jarring for Dieter and Soushi to learn, because they seem to have enjoyed her companionship (feels weird to call it friendship lol) in the past - especially Soushi who has always seemed to harbor a crush on her. Nol finding out that his girlfriend was entangled in a bad way with Shinae in the past and neither told him seems like the kind of thing that would upset him -- which got me thinking.

Firstly I think it’s important to acknowledge that when it’s revealed and the circumstances really matter. The closer to the current point of the story, I think the worst it could blow up, but this is just because of the thoughts I’m about to ramble about. I think we already will see some contention between with Nolyssa based on his guilty verdict, depending on if it’s ever leaked that they’re together, but that’s a whole other matter. Nol right now is still somewhat rash and emotionally reactive and I think learning about their altercation - and that they kept it from him - would be upsetting, and it’d be like he’s learning about a side of Alyssa he never knew about (or maybe that he ignored).

Even though Nol has made it clear he’s walking away from his friends, how much would he care that someone he’s dating hurt someone he clearly cares a lot about? Some might argue that Nol cares more about Shinae and his friends than he does Alyssa, so would he be able to stomach being with someone like that?

It’s very important to note that we also this way because we view the altercation through Shinae’s memories. Even thinking of it as an accident (which, for the record, I think it is; I don’t think Alyssa at all intended to hurt Shinae), we know that she had already turned on Shinae to fit in and we know the ramifications of that fall. Even though it was an accident, it left Shinae with a vast, physical scar and heaps of trauma she’s yet to work through. We also can believe, as we’ve been given no indication otherwise, that Alyssa never actually apologized to Shinae. Part of Shinae’s trauma with that is that she herself never gained closure - she doesn’t know why Alyssa treated her like that and she has insecure and fearful feelings regarding the incident in her memory. If Alyssa never apologized, Shinae never made peace, and she never really moved on. This is really evident during the Black and White Formal Arc, when Shinae comes face to face with Alyssa for the first time. Shinae’s uncomfortable unease and attempts to ignore the elephant in the room just feel so much like she never resolved her feelings. Later, when Maya and Shinae go shopping, Shinae spots Alyssa on a coffee ad and there’s no feelings of anger - which would be well and good had Shinae confronted those feelings already, but she hasn’t. She continues to compartmentalize and shove her feelings away to fester, rather than face them the ugliness that comes with.

As readers, we know this, so we are inclined to dislike Alyssa for this. We also bear witness to her wishy-washiness, the way she has treated Nol, we are aware that she is a person who operates first and foremost for her own personal gain and that sometimes this has hurt other people.

I point this out because it leads me to my main question: how would Nol actually feel to learn this piece of history? He once said he can’t expect his girlfriend and his friends to actually be friends - but he doesn’t really know how far from it is he is.

I think as readers we want to believe that Nol would defend Shinae. Even if he doesn’t say it, it is very clear that Shinae means a lot to him and that her friendship is not something easy for him to let go of, and that it’s because he truly does not believe himself worthy of people’s friendship and that he can only drag them down that he does. Which is what actually got me thinking... as someone who thinks lowly of himself, who believes he has caused at least two incidents of trauma, as someone who literally created a whole persona and hid so many truths from his own friends... would Nol actually see Alyssa in a bad light?

This is what I mean by I think this depends on when and how Nol learns of their history. If it comes out later, when he’s a little more mature, when he’s maybe come out on the other side of this whole jail thing, when maybe he’s been able to change his image, he could look back on his own past and go ah... sometimes we make mistakes but those mistakes do not define us, we can still become better versions of ourselves. (Of course maybe by such a time Nol would have grown and learned that the things he blames himself for never were his to blame but regardless, I think that sentiment would remain.) It’s debatable if Nol and Alyssa would ever be together still in such a point in the future, but this whole thing is hypothetical anyway.

I’m not saying that in the future he WOULD think this way, but rather, I think there’s potential for it. Often, the characters do not react the ways we immediately expect them to. We like to think that Nol, a person who believes people should be treated fairly, would be upset to learn about the kind of person Alyssa has been. But... doesn’t Nol kind of already know? He knows why Alyssa is with him. He’s watched her dance with famous men when she’s too tired to dance with him. He’s watched her brown-nose a woman who instills actual fear in him. Nol knows all of this and he’s still with Alyssa for the sake of their agreement. And given that he already thinks of himself as a person who has made mistakes, I think there’s even a possibility that he might think he even suits someone like her.

This doesn’t rule out the possibility that he’d be upset to find out about this, of course! More upsetting than Alyssa causing such a serious injury would probably be how she responded to it - that, as far as we know, she never made amends and how she treated Shinae when they first met up, as if they used to be such good friends and nothing at all ever happened (because she clearly was trying to save her image). Beyond that, he feels immense guilt for Shinae’s fall in the pool, and is haunted by that, with the fear that he will only hurt those he cares about, so Shinae’s side of things could sway him more. It’s one thing to cause an accident - he believes he did, too - but another thing to be the cause of so much trauma for Shinae, to be the reason it was so difficult for her to open up and trust people treat herself with patience and kindness. Granted, Nol isn’t necessarily likely to know these things, so maybe thtat’s a moot point.

Anyway this is very rambly but I thought it kind of interesting to explore this thought and how I don’t think we ever consider much the likelihood that Nol’s own situation and experiences very well could give him a different reaction to that news than we expect. I’m curious to hear what other people think, though!

(Going to try to post a shorter more concise version of this to reddit lmao so enjoy this ridiculously long post, it’s been a while lol)

#ILY Brainrot #I Love Yoo #Alyssa Cho #Nolan Oliver T. Lochlainn #Yeonggi #Nolyssa #I've been musing over this in my head for a couple days now #I think there's a lot of room for Nol to see himself in Alyssa esp as he has been perceived as violent by many many people #and he knows this of himself because his punching bag is an outlet of his #i think there's just so much potential for him to see her past and either #a see himself in her and therefore think they are meant to be together that they are people who only hurt others and he doesn't deserve #anything better anyway that he's just a mistake and a monster and he's suited to someone who also has secrets she's hidden #or #b he can acknowledge that people grow and they are not the sum of their mistake sand they can become better people and break free of those #cycles #of course b is like coming from a healthy Nol who has has dealt with his hurdles and maybe Alyssa's past would be revealed well before that #it's worth exploring i think!#Shinae Yoo #i mean it's loosely about her too heh

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trashlie · 3 years

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On another note, why do we only talk about StalkYoo x Dieter/Kousuke being the real love triangle, when Alyssa is also right there? Is it simply because she isn't considered a true love interest? I wonder if Quimchee is also doing a trope subversion of the scheming second female lead as well. They are usually written off as one dimensional and easy to hate. 3/3

You know, I've thought about this before lol like.... I think it's even come up in the reddit when people talk about Stalkyoo. I think the general consensus is, yes, she's not considered a true love interest.

With that in mind, I guess a lot of just assume that relationship will inevitably end. This kind of goes hand in hand with the concept of Stalkyoo foundations, I think - we feel like there's more development and potential for Stalkyoo than we do for Nolyssa, right? There seems to be a sense that if Nol is to stay with Alyssa, forever, it will be a similar situation to Rand and Yui, something arranged and loveless. And if ILY Is about defeating generational cycles, that would be one for Nol to end, right? Also, I think there's just something so demoralizing about the idea of him staying in a relationship that doesn't make him happy and even ultimately marrying her. It feels like the antithesis of what we want for Nol: to be happy, to be free, and to not be tethered to his family. Even were Alyssa to escape Yui's grasp, could she do it before Nol comes to resent her? Could they salvage any of the friendship that once was?

While I don't expect a perfectly happy ending, the idea of Nol being tethered to an arranged relationship is too depressing, and not even because of my shipping alliances. I'd rather him be single than forced into something for show. I really want his story to be about overcoming the trauma he's been through, unlearning what he's carried for so long, and being free of this god forsaken family. Somehow tethered to Alyssa doesn't seem to fit that bill does it?

But maybe I'm wrong and we'll find out that Alyssa does carry some affection for him that they can one day rebuild - I guess it depends on if he ever grows to actually resent her, if he can divorce her from the connections to the family and to the times when he reached out and received nothing. To me, that sounds like a difficult reconciliation. As amicable people, sure? But as a lover....?

So I guess when people talk about the love triangle/square, there's a lot of inadvertent writing Alyssa out of the picture because she's seen as an obstacle to be overcome, not a love interest, and that is, admittedly, not fair to her as a character. But when she herself makes it clear (as far as we can tell) that she's not in it because she loves him, it's hard to view her as a romantic party, I think. She starts to be seen the same way Rand is, the way Kousuke is, the way Yui is: a person to be escaped, a connection to sever.

I do think there will be a time we will see her role in the love geometrical shape a little more clearly, though, though maybe not necessarily as "romance" but more... I feel like Alyssa is very shaken by Nol's change in personality. Obviously she seems shaken because she's worried it's connected to her secret, but can she be shaken because she's taken him for granted and the idea that he's different than who she thought all along bothers her? (Hey look more Alyssa and Shinae foils!) I can't blame her there, to be honest. Realizing she knows very little about this guy she's technically dating, noticing a big shift in his personality. But because she needs to hang on to him and maintain the life she has, I think we might see her cleave to him a little more?

Someone said in the infamous trio illustration where Nol and Shinae are sharing earbuds, the song being played is Pacify Her by Melanie Martinez and that if you look at the lyrics and assume Shinae in the narrator's voice and Nol the Blue Boy, then it reads HEAVILY of an Alyssa Nol Shinae dynamic.

Tying in to this, I think a lot of people who write Alyssa out of the love shape are people who read into the idea that there are some non-platonic feelings developing between Nol and Shinae, and when Shinae acts as a foil to show exactly the ways Alyssa falls short of Nol's needs, it really just amplifies this feeling that "Alyssa will not be a contender of Nol's affection", because we've essentially come to accept that he's growing weary of her and Shinae offers him solace. Even if you view this in the most non-romantic lens, the juxtaposition of how Alyssa is with Nol compared to Shinae still shows that one centers conversations around herself and her needs and the other tends to deflect from herself and is therefore able to take notice of his needs. It just becomes so easy to ship one over the other when it feels like there is a basis for it. Even before it was revealed Alyssa and Nol's relationship was a sham, people shipped Stalkyoo and this is probably a big reason here: because he seems so unhappy with Alyssa and she doesn't seem to feel much regarding him and when we see him with Shinae we see him involuntarily let his guard down a little or open up just a tiny bit.

I've probably talked about this so much at this point but essentially: Shinae deliberately foils Alyssa to show the depth of her relationship with Nol, the way that they both have an automatic defense for each other, the way that they both notice the little things that often go missed. And whether you consciously are aware of this, whether you even think that their feelings veer from friendship, you still find yourself aware that the way Alyssa treats Nol is... not ideal. That he reaches out and creates openings for her that she doesn't take. And it's hard to look at their relationship and go "yeah this is good I guess". Especially once it's revealed that Nol wanted to break up and they seem to just be using each other, it's so easy for readers to stop thinking of Alyssa as a love interest because that requires love and interest, right?

It's funny that you bring up the possibility of subverting that trope because we definitely aren't at a point where we can see that, right? Alyssa isn't exactly sympathetic to us as readers - however, she's also not treated (at least, I don't think so) as a scheming jealous bitch type. THAT SAID, considering Alyssa as a parallel or eventual foil to Kousuke, will we see her find a phase of paranoia, where the idea of Nol and Shinae interacting makes her uncomfortable, not because she's jealous of Shinae or their relationship, but just because she has a secret and an image to protect? That's not a total subversion of the trope, but it's still something, right? It's a little more dimensional, I think, than "Stay away from my man I liked him first and you don't deserve him" which is how that scheming second lead trope often goes.

As was the case with Maya, I feel like we won't see Alyssa's side of the story for a while - maybe we have to see her fall far before we finally get to see her side? Maybe we'll get lucky and Nol will at least reminisce on things and give us a teaser for her. I really do want to learn more about Alyssa - I'm not sure what could make me actually sympathetic towards her short of her, you know, taking accountability. But subverting a trope doesn't necessarily mean you set up looking like it and go a different way. It could simply be a naïve girl scheming, who just wants something a little bigger than herself (contrasted with the usually cold, jaded, "bitch" type character casted in this role). It could be that quim is playing around with the personality type of the schemer, because Alyssa does this for her own validation because Alyssa does not exist without an audience.

Idk what are you thinking about this? I'm eager to hear!

#I Love Yoo #ILY Brainrot #Alyssa Cho #Nolyssa #Yeonggi #Nolan Oliver T. Lochlainn #at the end of the day i guess it's easy for readers to write Alyssa off because there's a general assumption that relationship will one day #end. or a hope for it lol.#one day i'll finish writing my post about Stalkyoo formations so i can talk more about this but #the general idea is that if we consider the story is at its midway mark and Stalkyoo are the two characters that (at least in my opinion)#have received the most foundational building then it's hard to imagine how relationships that don't have much to prop them up will occur #that's not to say it's impossible #i fully expect to maybe see the dynamic change come the time of the timeskip #and tbh a lot relies on what happens with Shinae and Nol #all their foundation could go to waste if they don't clear things up with each other #but this isn't about them lmao even if it kind of is #can nolyssa build something comparable to what he's built with Shinae?#Alyssa's current lack of awareness beyond herself makes that seem pretty difficult doesn't it? but this also goes back to:#we are deliberately kept in the dark about her so there's so much we don't yet know about her!#she is a wild card!

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trashlie · 3 years

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Hiii I always love your takes on here and reddit. You have such a way with words and an interesting take on analyses and theories. So I would love to hear your take on the flashback in episode 132 and Nolyssa's latest interaction in Episode 110 as the aftermath of their "new agreement" and Alyssa's video call with Meg later on.

Thank you so much for telling me that! Sometimes I feel like I'm just a non-stop rambling train and it's always really reassuring to know that some people really like to hear what I have to say! Playing off of everyone is so fun to me!

Alyssa is.... a character I like to try to give the benefit of the doubt, but I usually fail. I always wonder if there's more to her or if she's what we've seen so far. On the one hand, I can't fault a person who is both a people-pleaser and a social ladder climber, because Alyssa is going after what she wants - whatever it is. When the friend trio were talking about Ayssa and how they never expected that, I guess that means she never showed any aspirations to being an idol. Maybe she was quiet? Maybe she just seemed like someone who wanted friends where she fit in?

My real issue with Alyssa, though, is the people she hurts in her quest to fit in and please the masses.

It used to be that I thought once upon a time Alyssa and Nol may actually have had a crush - maybe not liked each other, but enough of a spark to think ahhh maybe we should try it, but that really doesn't seem the case any more now. It seemed like in the balcony flashback when they were talking, there were undertones of "we both entered this relationship wanting something out of it". From the way Nol talked about it with Shinae at the formal, there were no lingering feelings anymore, if there ever had been: "We got along well as friends so why not. People weren't against it either."

Actually the entire time Nol talks about his relationship with Alyssa ("the person I'm currently seeing" vs "my good friend") was the first time we got the sense that it wasn't a normal relationship. Up until now it just seemed like he kept trying to get in touch with her and she was too. Here though we really start to realize: it's highly likely neither of them ever liked each other.

I don't think Nol consciously went in with the thought "She'll be a good shield for me" but it's clear that's what their relationship has become - in more ways than one, but I'll have to get to that in a bit. I think early on, Alyssa may have afforded Nol some kind of freedom, and as she worked towards becoming an idol and her fame started to precede her, it became more in his favor.

I assume ILY operates on a Korean high school, with 3 grades. If they met in freshman year and now are seniors, they really haven't spent a lot of time together. I imagine it was shortly after Yui got involved that she pulled strings and suddenly Alyssa is a trainee and can't come out much.

Anyway, I'm starting to lose my point so: isn't it interesting how in 110, before we'd ever seen the flashback, Nol is so openly cool with Alyssa? There isn't much warmth, faked or otherwise. At the formal, Nol jumped through hoops trying to play the doting boyfriend role, doling out compliments she never returned and trying to appear chivalrous but now Nol sits angled away from Alyssa (notably they are on a bench with a separator between them). He also states "We need to make sure he doesn't doubt our relationship... albeit how... unconventional it might be."

Even without the flashback in 132, we were given clues that Nol and Alyssa's relationship has never real, but at the time it was easier to read it as "someone who's going abroad + a busy kpop idol" but in usual quim fashion, the clues were always there. Nol never shows any giddiness talking about Alyssa, he seems to just "accept things" as they are with her and doesn't even fight for more, he's just so resigned. Even Alyssa once describes him as "a kid who eventually grows on you" which is uh... kinda a weird way to describe the guy you're dating, right? Not even "like a kid who eventually you realize has grown up' lmao they are so obvious omg

It's funny how the scene in 110 makes it sound like Nolyssa have been talking more, but no, we eventually get the flashback and realize he's already told her about the exam and schools way back when and this is just a continuation. What is really interesting though is how Alyssa manages to make time to come out and meet with him, even though she never had time before to even reply to his texts.

Alyssa is nervous. She might even be a little afraid. I think it's safe to say she always took Nol for granted. Even Yujing once described him as meek, and while she was talking about a much younger Nol, I think even a freshman Nol might have been seen as a meek, agreeable boy who was going around trying to gather up friends. It's not that Alyssa was intentionally taking advantage of him at first - I doubt he ever revealed to her that he was a Hirahara and it all came out through other (Yui) means. Then, Alyssa was just happy to have friends and be accepted by a little group. But I have no doubt Yui intercepted at one point and Yui'd things up, insinuated that Ahhh wouldn't Yeonggi and Alyssa be such a cute couple, maybe planted some ideas about a possible career and one thing lead to another.

For Alyssa, Nol is her key to that world. She probably knows that just as easily as Yui made her, she can break her. Through the Hiraharas (and with Nol as the vessel) she has access to things like the very exclusive Kim formal where she can rub elbows with big name, big money people, people with connections (the wogue photographer). If Nol and Alyssa were to break up, she has no reason to interact with them. No more invites. And maybe even no more career. Even though we didn't yet know what transpired on the rooftop, Alyssa coming out at all was a shock.

The entire conversation, there's something stand offish with Nol regarding Alyssa, right down to the way he looks at her (or worse, doesn't). To her, he's different, but as readers, we know that this is just the real Nol, someone who is exhausted of having to pretend with her, too.

Also, isn't it so funny how even though they're supposed to be making efforts to appear like a couple more, but she still hadn't told him about her performance and maybe it never would have come up if they'd not run into those fans. Nol never even makes it sound like he wants to go; sure he's already got a complicated situation and tentative plans but it's pretty clear he really doesn't want a pity invite.

What I thought was really funny, especially in retrospect once you've seen the flashback in 132, is how Alyssa is very sulky about how different Nol is acting, and how she wonders if it's that Shinae revealed her not-so-delightful past to him and not, idk, that she's a terrible girlfriend and he's tired of it. He made it so clear on the balcony that a part of him wants out, a part of him is growing resentful, that he doesn't like how she treats him, but she still thinks "omg did Shinae tell him about me"? She has no concept of her own actions and behavior, only how she's perceived.

Another interesting thing of note is that in the flashback, Nol said to her "This doesn't seem to be working out" but in the conversation between Alyssa and Meg, it's revealed that she basically brags about what an easy going relationship they have, how Nol is fine with her doing whatever and just supports it. I wonder if she actually believed that or if she was telling herself that. Maybe both? It's hard to imagine just accepting that he's okay with her never talking to him, but maybe it's the way she comforts herself. If he's not making a fuss it can't really matter, right? Meg did rightfully point out their communication is terrible. At the end of the day, Alyssa doesn't really know Nol. Sure she knows Yeonggi, but we know Yeonggi is not the sum of him. And of what she knows about Yeonggi, she mostly appreciates that he just lets her be and somehow thinks that's what a relationship is, has the gall to be upset when he tells her she's a bad girlfriend.

That whole conversation is so painful to me because it's a rare instance of Nol putting himself out there and being honest. He points out she never acknowledged him all night, danced with other people, that she knows how he feels about these events. It does read to me that he had hoped Alyssa being there would make it less miserable - maybe not even in a boyfriend and girlfriend way but as one of his old friends - but she didn't even do that. She made it clear that a lot of people take priority over him. And her defense? "You haven't exactly been the best boyfriend."

??????????????? I'm still baffled over this one, too. What.... was his shortcoming, in their weird arrangement. What does he expect her to do? I wonder if this is more about their motives in the relationship? If hers is to gain access to this exclusive world, does she wish he was taking her around and introducing her to people so she can go make all the connections? It doesn't even matter, because the point is, she didn't even bother to apologize to him and instead tried to shift blame, and that's why I have issues with Alyssa. If she wants to climb the social ladder, by all means do it, but not at the expense of hurting people who care about you. Alyssa probably has a better idea than, say Dieter, of Nol's family dynamic ("You know, I'm already invisible to my family and their friends") and she still continues to do what she does. THAT's what makes me angry.

Something else that always stands out to me, too, is how Alyssa responds to Nol asking "What if we end up growing to resent each other?" because she's never, until this point, seen Nol as anything but a vapid version of his Yeonggi mask: sweet Nol who never asks for anything, who just accepts the way things are, sweet Nol who makes it so easy for her to forget she has a boyfriend because she doesn't have to work for anything. Whereas Nol is already starting to resent her. He's bitter about the way she treats him, bitter about his priority in her life, bitter about the things he wants vs what he receives (hello Shinae/Alyssa foils!). And Alyssa doesn't get it, because she doesn't look at it beyond her own scope. The Yeonggi she knows would never.... but the Yeonggi she knows isn't real.

Ultimately, I think the conversation revealed a lot of answers to Nol and that's why we see that shift in their dynamic. He has accepted that he's never going to be one of her priorities, that she won't make the effort he wants her to. He told her about the schools he applied to and we can tell from his reaction he was hoping she would at least act sad, ask him if he really has to. Her fast encouragement told him what he already suspected: she doesn't care about him as much as what a relationship with him affords her. And he stops reaching out. He stops sending her updates. He stops trying to get in contact for reasons other than keeping up appearances. (When he takes her to the dinner with the Kims and his family, it is absolutely him using her as a shield/buffer, as well as to "keep up the appearances" the way Rand wants him to.)

The conversation with Meg and Alyssa also reveals two things: a. there is NO communication between Nol and Alyssa and she really knows nothing about him. His shift in personality has her worried. But b. she's worried the shift is more about what he knows about her and her past, and not, say, the way she treats him. Alyssa is a performer - both as a career and a personality type. She wants to control the narrative to keep the best view of her possible. This includes withholding information. I can't say I 100% fault her here because if I was her, I wouldn't be proud of how I'd treated Shinae, either, or the push, even as an accident. But she is absolutely terrified of him finding out, doesn't want to even ask him about it. (I wonder if she senses anything about how much Nol cares about her; he did, after all, end up involved with Shinae's fall in attempt to rescue her from Sangchul.) But what Alyssa isn't so concerned about is what Nol being close with someone else means: it's what secrets that particular person can reveal about her.

At any rate, I think currently Nolyssa are in a very interesting situation: it's clear to me that Nol has shackled himself to Alyssa because he doesn't believe he really deserves anything else. Whether or not you ship Stalkyoo, it's evident that his "why don't we call it quits" and then subsequent apology is a back and forth of his resolve, wanting to remove himself from yet another uncomfortable situation that weighs him down, only to realize he (according to his own view) doesn't deserve that freedom and needs her buffer against his family at a time like this. Based on the change in how he acts with her and treats her, it's clear he's no longer pretending maybe this is a real relationship or that it can become one. Nol has given up that fantasy and really has just shackled himself to her, because he's not getting a lot out of this. Not compared to her, at any rate. For him, it's just another act of self-sabotage, a self-inflicted penance for the crimes he's slowly believing of himself (that he is a bad person, that he makes bad things happen, that his very existence is a mistake).

And if you DO subscribe the belief that the moment Shinae and Nol had on the balcony reveals to him that his feelings might not be as purely platonic as he thought, shackling himself to Alyssa is shield not only against his family, but against the feelings he's trying to deny and fight. If he's dating someone else, he can't entertain thoughts about anyone else. If he's dating the friend of Shinae, he certainly cannot entertain those thoughts.

Alyssa, on the other hand, is growing nervous of this reckless and cool version of Nol that doesn't match up with the warm, kid-like Yeonggi she knew, and it scares her that there's more to him than she ever knew, and that he comes across so detached. She really doesn't want Nol (or anyone I'm sure) to know about that incident. But the thing about being famous is... netizens have a way of bringing back the worst things you've done. I don't remember the episode it happened in but remember when Shinae is in class and some people are talking about Alyssa's group's debut? And one of the classmates says they went to school with her in middle school....? Anyone on cleaning crew that day will remember what happened, and no doubt there were Rumors going around.....

I wonder how she'll feel over him pleading guilty. It won't reflect well upon her, but is being a part of the Hirahara world worth it to her? After all, as long as she's careful no one knows, right? His verdict doesn't reflect upon her unless people know....

#I Love Yoo #ILY Brainrot #Alyssa Cho #Yeonggi #Nolan Oliver T. Lochlainn #Nolyssa #when will i learn to write more concisely lmao i'm sorry #i hope you wanted a lot of words lol #Nolyssa is so fascinating to me because it's absolutely a parallel to Yui and Rand and part of the generational cycles #will Nol break the generational cycle and end things with Alyssa?#will they end up in a loveless marriage?#can they fall in love???#frankly i don't think we're given a lot of room to say definitively if that's possible yet because we don't know enough about Alyssa #but the fact that Shinae foils her at every turn so far feels like it's a neon sign screaming NO IT'S NOT POSSIBLE #lol don't even say this as a stalkyoo shipper but as the fact that a foil is meant to show how one character is weaker or stronger than #another one. in this case alyssa is weaker against shinae in expressing concern and care for nol #and that is important because we can see how much it means to him when shinae notices things or shows care and concern #i didn't include this because i wanted to focus on nolyssa but in 132 when alyssa is going on about how cold it is and how she's freezing #let's go inside Nol looks... stressed? pained? he's tense and shows a sweat drop and her words juxtaposed against shinae's shows an #absolute lack of concern for him. likewise when shinae is saying these things to him and trying to get him to come inside his eyes aren't #illustrated. we are deliberately kept in the dark probably because this is a moment that nol is exposing too much so he's hiding it from #her and from us as readers. it's a really interesting difference when they are virtually saying the same but opposite things #nol is likely pained by shinae's concern because he believes he deserves none of it but its exactly what he wants to hear #and this after her vulnerable moment clinging to his coat and crying? when she leaves and he holds that spot?#(i'm not saying stalkyoo shit but..... stalkyoo shit)

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trashlie · 2 years

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ALSO!!! YOUR NOL/ALYSSA ANALYSIS you’re SO right. i didn’t see it that way before but there’s so many things that could happen. so nolan would react in a way we don’t expect? of course i really want him to be angry on shinaes behalf but we’ll see 😭 i wonder if alyssa blames herself. why she didn’t tell nolan. is it like an unspoken agreement between her and shinae… will it break things between her and nolan or will it make nolan stay since he can relate :(

RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT I think these are such interesting points to think about since Nol is uhhhh kinda on a personal journey right now lmao for lack of better word 👀 He's a loose Canon.

Re: Alyssa I think there IS a lot more we don't know yet. I keep reiterating that we really don't know anything about Alyssa - nothing from her vantage, only glimpses of her family, no way to know how she feels about anything, except that she's obviously afraid Shinae will tell Nol what happened and he'll be angry. And even that is like... do you care about his anger because it's him or because you don't like not being able to control how people see you and as a people pleaser you can't handle people being upset with you? So many questions! That said, I do think it's something she carries with her the same way Shinae does and given that we can assume they never had actual closure or resolved the issue, it probably festers in her. I think esp as an accident, it must be scary to know what you unintentionally did, that Shinae was lucky to survive that and not come out with worse brain issues than she did! That probably required therapy that I bet she did nor receive.

It's probably also part of why she didn't tell Nol, the other part being why she's afraid of Shinae telling him. How do you even begin to do that? Esp as a person who generally wants people to like her, it's not easy to say to your boyfriend "Hey... u should know I kinda causes some injury to ur new friend 👉👈" lol that is... scary, even if you have faith your partner loves you lol. Alyssa is kind of desperately clinging to Nol - the last thing she wants is a reveal that might make him see her as a villain. And because she has no idea how he thinks of himself, she has no way to know that he thinks of HIMSELF as a villain.

Additionally, I think it's just hard to face, esp if she never got the therapy she needed to deal with what happened. She caused SERIOUS, dangerous harm to someone she didn't intend to hurt. That's probably traumatic in its own way - like getting into a car accident that gravely injures someone. In that regard, I really feel for her. She was a kid pressured to act a certain way and was just trying to fit in. Doesn't make it right but still.

It DOES feel like an unspoken agreement, doesn't it? I don't think they're aware of it, though - she's so worried Shinae is going to tell but Shinae doesn't like to open up about that or talk about it, and I think she feels she has no right interfering there. Then again, Shinae has never actually dealt with her hurt, anger, or the betrayal Alyssa caused. I'm not saying I think she'll tell, because I don't, but I wonder if she will remain able to wish Alyssa well once she confronts them. Probably, in time.

Anyway, this is something I'm SUPER keen on seeing play out, esp now that I've started to think of the possibility of Nol relating to Alyssa and further tethering himself to her. He is a hot mess lol it really just depends on when and how things are revealed. There's been a general theory since his guilty verdict that Alyssa will publicly disown Nol or they'll break up, if it's revealed that she's dating him and has to save face, and I think that would change things some. I still expect the reveal of her past to come out as a "bullying allegation" cos boy does that kill careers, in which case it would be REALLY interesting to see how people react. Suppose the allegations come to light and she loses her limelight, where does she go? Who I'd on her side? Specifically regarding Nol, how do you deal with that knowledge after being thrown under the bus (lol should that happen). For what it's worth, I imagine Shinae would feel guilty for their past to ruin Alyssa's career and that might color how others react to it.

All supposition at this point but boy do I enjoy hypothetical scenarios!

#ILY Brainrot #I Love Yoo #Nolyssa #adding character tags later #anyway this is v fun to think about!#nol's current character change has had me reassessing all kinds of things lol #but especially the way he sees alyssa #maybe I'll have the brain power to talk about THAT one day

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kimione · 3 years

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Summary -

Two brothers. Two heirs. One throne.

Destinies intertwine in a narrative set against an AU historical backdrop, where two different lives under the same roof are shaped by choices. In a game of throne-esque setting where there's more at stake than ambitions and love, two brothers uncover the hand they were dealt by fate.

#I love yoo #I love yoo webtoon #Yootip #Nolalyssa #Nolyssa #Kousuke x Shin ae #i love yoo fanfic

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trashlie · 2 years

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Someone: why do you ship AeGi?

Trashlie: it's about THE FOILS!

And you are so right! How can I not compare every partner they have to the person who already fulfills most of their needs and fundamentally understands them in a way no one else can. You didn't even mention ShiTer 😭 even though Dieter is a good love interest unlike Alyssa. But they don't feel right, do they? Like they wouldn't quite get each other in the long run and are better off as friends. Shinae needs to discern that difference between platonic love and romantic love. I do believe Nol expected her as his girlfriend to pay more attention to him and hopefully really notice him. The slow disappointment must've taken several blows to his self-esteem. He needs to learn he deserves the love he nurtured. I still have your WHO WOULD I BE WITHOUT YOU?!!! tag stuck in my head just so you know!

I'm absolutely answering these out of order because I have been laughing ALL DAY at this because I CANNOT DENY THIS. IT'S TRUE. IT'S THE FOILS!!!! lmao ngl ILY has been really furthering my love for parallels and the way everyone lines up with a foil or mirror just makes me FERAL. Also I have to let you know: i could not remember what that tag was or from what post it was, even though I knew it def sounded like something I'd write lmao, but the point is: I CANNOT EXPRESS JUST HOW FLATTERED and dare I say AWED I am that a tag from that long ago has stuck around with you so long. Like. I cannot verbalize it, it's so hard, I'm SO SINCERELY overjoyed that my words stick with people, when half the time I feel like my tags are feel barf that didn't make it into my post. (And truly WHO WOULD they be without each other huh? WHO WOULD THEY? THE IMPACT THEY'VE HAD ON EACH OTHER, THE INFLUENCE, THE PUSHES. I'M CONVINCED SHINAE WILL MAKE SUCH AN IMPACT ON NOL BECAUSE THAT'S WHO THEY ARE THAT'S WHAT THEY DO WHO ARE THEY WITHOUT EACH OTHER? ROARS) But truly THANK YOU for telling me that it honestly made me happy all day long, I had to go tell a friend about it even though she doesn't read the webtoon because I needed someone to know how much it means to know my words just... stick lmao

But speaking of our beloved foils!

I didn't bring up Shieter because the main contrast we've had to Aegi is Nolyssa, but I do not deny that Shieter foils them in its own way, too. I was talking about this with a couple different people, I think, because if Nolyssa shows the more sound structure and foundation to Stalkyoo, Shieter highlights their mutual elevated importance.

Let's get into under the cut!

I know I've talked about this a lot in different posts but I'll go ahead and reiterate it: I still think there's an opportunity for Shinae and Dieter to date but after 153, I really started to change how I think about it. Dieter is one of the more perceptive characters of the story and I think he's the one with just enough neutrality (used loosely here lol) to see things more clearly than, say, Nol with his wounded self esteem or Shinae who is still learning to process how she feels about people. I don't think Shieter is constructed simply to be a love triangle (and I really do think there's still a likelihood that they will date for some time!) but to also provide some nice illumination about Stalkyoo.

We can already see that Dieter is starting to put things together - he knows he isn't the most important person in Shinae's life. There are numerous moments where Shinae runs into Dieter and Soushi and immediately asks after Yeonggi - even during times when he couldn't possibly be with them (like the night Kousuke took her to the arcade). I think there's also significant weight to Dieter being the one to console Shinae in 152 and 153, because even as a love interest (or maybe AS a love interest), Dieter picks up on things.

It's not difficult for him to understand the enormity of the pain Shinae is experiencing, to feel the weight of Yeonggi's betrayal, because Dieter has been getting to know Shinae over the course of several months. And while several months doesn't give him enough insight to know who she is as a person, there are some integral truths that people know about her. For one, Shinae does not easily express vulnerability. When he and Soushi found her paralyzed in the rain, face streaked with rain and tear tracks, desolate, Dieter was able to put two and two together.

To consider this foil, let's first consider another (lol just full of em aren't I?).

What other friendship did Dieter witness fall apart?

He was there with Shinae after she and Maya fought and Shinae was faced with the reality that Minhyuk made Maya and Rika promise to be her friend. Her suspicions were reality. I'm definitely not trying to downplay Shinae's hurt, because she outright tells Dieter she is. I think it's also worth noting that Shinae already suspected that her friends didn't really like her, so finding out everything was all "fake" isn't exactly the same as with Nol, but it's still worth comparing, because it's given Dieter a sort of benchmark of measure. The Shinae that he knows has never broken down in front of him and hasn't been QUITE this vulnerable. (This is not a dig at the times she HAS been. I think they still matter!)

The point I'm making is: the only other time Dieter has seen Shinae hurt/betrayed by friends wasn't to this same intensity. (Notably, both times Dieter has been the one to get her to stop beating up herself!) So to find Shinae in this state in the rain, to sit by as she mourns and grieves, as her hurt gives way to an anger she didn't express for Maya and Rika. Comparing these two scenarios, Dieter can see that Nol has a heightened level of importance to Shinae. His betrayal hurts more, because he means more, because she's opened up more of herself to him than she had to Maya and Rika.

And when you think about it, does Dieter even know the things that Shinae and Nol have been through? Does he even know she was a the Kim formal? Does he know about her fall? She's never told him, Nol likely wouldn't tell him.

Dieter himself doesn't really know about the experience that they shared that brings Shinae to value Nol as friend, but it's easy for him to tell that they have a deep bond. And it's not just the banter that he's envious of or the ease they have around each other - I think Dieter is able to deduce this based on the way he's known Shinae to act with others. Given that he had a crush on her back when Minhyuk was still in school, his crush has endured a long time, meaning he also knows that Shinae developing these friendships is pretty unusual for her.

Now, I don't want to sell our guy short! Like Nol, Shinae has had some experiences with Dieter that Nol has not been a part of, and they're often experiences that have lead to her opening up and being vulnerable with Dieter. Admitting to him her doubts about her friends at the amusement park, opening up to him when those doubts became truth and even expressing worry that Minhyuk was her friend out of pity, she called him when she caught her sister/the intruder. More and more, she and Dieter have been building up moments where she has also come to trust him. I do think this is probably deliberate, opposite her build up with Nol, due to how similar they are in theme: both of them are people Shinae is starting to trust more and be vulnerable with.

But I do think Dieter and this pairing is constructed as a foil to highlight the level of importance Nol and Shinae place upon each other.

Don't get me wrong - I think Shinae and Dieter could have a nice, cute, relationship, and I think he's a great first relationship for her for that reason! Someone who she can experience opening up to and pushing her own boundaries. Opening your heart to friendship and opening your heart to love are two similar but still different types of vulnerability, and with her lack of experience, it can be difficult to discern which is which. And I think a relationship with Dieter would help Shinae come to discern what is platonic and what is romantic - or more importantly, what is it she'd want out a relationship at all? Romantically, she DOES gravitate towards Dieter and I think the feelings she's developing are real but something to consider is also: are her developing feelings in response to his steady interest in her? Is she mirroring back his crush? That's not to like, downplay her feelings. I'm not implying they're fake, but rather that they may have been born BECAUSE of the interest he's taken in her, the way it makes her feel special, the way it comforts her to know that someone has been seeing these little exposed parts of her and still maintains interest. It helps her to see him that way, too, as someone who is capable and trustworthy with hot man hands lol.

This is obviously speculation but I do think Shinae gravitates towards trust and comfort, which is why both Nol and Dieter are the people who she is able to open up to the most in this manner. I mean, I'll admit that yes timing is a big aspect of it. Had Nol been the person to find Shinae when she was upset about Maya, he would have been the one comforting her. But that's the choice in writing - the writer deliberately chooses how those scenes unfold, and because it was Dieter who found her, their friendship deepened and strengthened, and that part of Dieter shook her romantically.

Still, I think a major point of issue in their friendship would probably be Nol, supposing, you know, we are talking about a point where Nol has reconciled with them. This is where we get really suppositional because I don't know where we are going plotwise: will Nol reconcile somehow before he goes off to jail, will it be at graduation, or worse, after a timeskip of some years? (The latter scenario obviously leaves the most room for a shake up: consider Shinae and Dieter dating somewhere down the road and out of the blue, Nol reappears. Would Shinae go through a myriad of emotions, hovering between fighting spirit and the urge to reconcile? Would they all meet and reconcile and she find herself in conflict? This is so dramatic lol bear with me.) But I think the whole point of their foils is to show that Nol is someone who has a higher level of importance in Shinae's life than a LOT of people. Even though he's blocked her and refusing to meet, she still messages him that she misses him. Shinae is still holding out hope he'll come back to them.

And I think 152 and 153 were moments of Dieter acknowledging this. I don't think it would stop him from pursuing her, or whatever, especially if Nol doesn't reconcile with them any time soon. And you know what? Even knowing this, I think Dieter might play with fire, especially if Shinae is the person to make the first move. I get the feeling that, like Nol, Dieter does not easily resist Shinae even when he knows better. There's other contrasts we can gather, though I don't know how much weight and bearing they hold. Compared to her relationship with Nol, Shinae's relationship with Dieter is quite mild and gentle, definitely not so tumultuous, which makes for a great first relationship where you explore what you like and want, indulging in the comfort of someone's affections while reflecting on if this and they are what you really want.

I don't think Shinae sees any of her moments with Nol as romantic, no matter how intimate and tender some of them have been, so it's not like I think they'd play at the back of her mind. But I wonder if, in a relationship, she would ever find herself comparing to something like that, anyway?

Something else of note worth mentioning is that in the same way Nol lives in Kousuke's shadow and feels invisible with everyone, I think to some degree Dieter feels like he's in Yeonggi's shadow. It's definitely not to the same degree and it's not like he has a chip on his shoulder or anything, but Dieter knows he does not have Yeonggi's easy charm and banter, his particular humor, his easy going demeanor. He knows that he is an easily overlooked kind of person and in his mind, is probably not special. I think there's even a sort of... I don't want to say expectation, but I don't think it's a surprise for Dieter to realize that Nol means so much to Shinae. Firstly, because Nol means so much to HIM so he gets it. If he couldn't resist him, how could Shinae? And secondly, compared to Nol, who would see anything in him?

Obviously, Dieter brings more to the table than he realizes, and I don't know if he's aware JUST HOW SOFT Shinae is on him, but when you're comparing yourself to your attraction, charming, funny friend who is just so good with people, of course you'll feel you fall short.

Also, let's not forget that Soushi has sometimes seemed to harbor a crush on Alyssa... but Nol was the one who ended up dating her. Definitely... something to that, if it ever turns out Soushi's crush was real and Nol and Shinae end up together.

Unexpectedly lol this is SO long and I haven't even gotten to the last part of your ask!! But yes, I think Dieter and Shinae have an incredible quality for friendship, but in the long run, I don't know if he'll be what she wants, if only because the level of importance that Nol possesses makes it so hard to compete with that. Maybe this will change, as time goes on, and we'll see Shinae well and truly fall in love with Dieter, and his confidence improve as their relationship grows. But you are right, I cannot ignore the parallels or the foils. the way Nol and Shinae echo each other in 152 after they part, feeling heavy, their throats hurting. HELLO what is that if not their mutual anguish over losing each other HUH? HUH????

One last point I'd like to make here, too, is that another example of Nol's impact on Shinae and his importance is the dream she has episode 111 seems indicative that on some subconscious level, Shinae is aware that Nol is drifting out of reach, becoming difficult to reach. She reaches out to the bird but it flies away - every time she's reaching out for Nol, he slips away from her. This isn't something so much foiled by Dieter and Shinae, but because I'm talking about evidence of importance, I feel like there is good weight to Shinae LITERALLY DREAMING about her fear of Nol slipping out of reach. He's become so important to her and means so much that she's uneasy about him being out of her reach.

But yes, thinking of Nol's hopes and expectations of a relationship makes me sad. It doesn't help that he and Alyssa are so inexperienced and he probably had thought maybe when they start dating all of that will come and form. Maybe he didn't have expectations feelings would develop at all but hoped merely that, as his friend, Alyssa being his girlfriend would make him feel less alone and invisible. I wonder what girlfriend Alyssa was like before she started her idol training. Did they talk more? Was it just an awkward fumbling of hoping they'd figure out the balance and before they ever had a chance she was shoved into this career, skyrocketed by Yui? Because Alyssa had no relationship experience and Nol never complained, did she just assume he was so easy going that not communicating was no problem because she had bigger things to deal with? (Was he just a stepping stone, or ever an actual friend?) For months to become years where your girlfriend never has time for you or reaches out or responds to you... god the weight of it hurts, because it only reinforces what everyone else has made him believe: no one cares about him, he doesn't matter, he's invisible.

(I think this is very in line with things like Shinae noticing the scuffs on his knuckles from his punching bag, details that maybe no one seems to notice - or at least not call out - that he's gotten used to no one paying mind to. Shinae picking up on details startles him. She seems more than others do - which means maybe she'd see through his mask.)

I'm just waiting, WAITING for Nol to finally accept that he deserves the love and care he wants. Maybe someone just needs to really drill it into him - hound him until he can't help but admit it through sheer persistence. But Nol himself has to be able to first grasp that he is not the cause of bad things that have happened to bad people, and idk if he can adopt that mindset without therapy first. Maybe there can be a happy medium, of him trying to accept the love he wants balanced as he tries to learn that he's not the monster he thinks he is. Idk I'm just.... seeing him go through hell wears me down man. Watching him avoid his friends hurts. His self-isolation is painful and I just want him to ACCEPT them, but it's easier said than done. :/

#I Love Yoo #Stalkyoo #Shieter #Shinae Yoo #Dieter Becker-Wulff #Yeonggi #Nol #Nolan Oliver T. Lochlainn #ILY Brainrot #Aegi #i still think that Dieter and Nol are the ones who are most contenders for end game with Shinae at this point #but unfortunately for Dieter I think he is first relationship material not forever boy stuff you know?#but maybe it's just cos i'm deep deep in my Stalkyoo feels these days lmaooooo #it's so funny how i waffle back and forth all HMMM DO I THINK IT CAN ACTUALLY HAPPEN OH NO I'M IN DESPAIR but i guess lately i am in my #PLS I WANT TO SEE THEM TOGETHER SO BADLY bullhsit #reread episode 93 and was overcome with Emoshuns lmao pls #i'm PMSing this is bad #this post took SO LONG to write cos even tho i took a nap i am dying for more sleep somehow AND i had to go and double check a lot of thing #i NEVER remember in what ep Shinae has that dream!!!!!#also there's a number of times Shinae runs into Dieter and Soushi sans Nol and in like half of those times she asks about Yeonggi #she never did ask about him when Dieter found her after her fight with Maya #and she doesn't ask about him after their exams when they go for ramen

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