#also hot take when i say a character should be redeemed i'm literally not talking about wether they're forgiven or pardoned in universe | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

lord-squiggletits · 9 months

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Something I keep seeing when I speak to others about MTMTE Megatron is basically the idea that he's going on a personal journey to become a better person, that the point isn't for him to be "redeemed" but for him to get a chance to do good and die as a person he can live with again. That MTMTE presents a unique take on this because being away from Cybertron gives Megatron a chance to be a person rather than a political figure and this is how it gives him more depth as a character. Or just generally pointing out in a narrative sense that Megatron being in MTMTE limits his story options so of course his story is going to be more focused on a personal journey than on politics of him dealing with the Decepticons/Earth/etc and that just because JRO made a choice to take that path with Megatron doesn't mean that it's inherently bad.

And I'm just, mmm like I understand all of those points and acknowledge that they all contributed to the MTMTE Megatron we got. I even think that without JRO writing Megatron we wouldn't have had his lore be as fleshed out and 3D as it ended up becoming.

(Post starts out as a sort of meta analysis or at least me giving a reasoned explanation for my interpretation of the story, ends up being petty bitching in the last 1-2 paragraphs)

I just..... I just personally don't agree with the "he's becoming a better person by getting a chance to relax and experience happiness and trust after a life of trauma" as being the best choice for his character? Because the problem is that maybe if he were a random Decepticon foot soldier that would be appropriate, but he was literally the leader of the Decepticons that made them Like That and has political/cultural/societal responsibility for why things are the way they are? To be completely frank, I don't care about him going on a personal journey for self-peace, I think that he should become a better person by helping to un-fuck all the things he actually screwed up???

Like idc about the debate of whether he can be "redeemed" or if he should've been killed/imprisoned/etc at the ending. It just comes down to the fact that for me personally, I feel that since Megatron's wrongdoings were at a social level, him "being a better person" would've been better shown by him engaging with those people who he wronged instead of just going on a frigging personal journey for his legacy and self-peace???

Especially since in other series (exRID, possibly Windblade) we literally got plots like "the neutrals hate Autobots but they hate Decepticons even more" and "the Decepticons have been taken over by Galvatron and are now invading earth 2 electric boogaloo" and "yeah the Decepticons are literally living in slums because people hate them so much and won't give them any work." It just leaves me wondering why in the hell people are like, "oh Megatron got to be happy and have a chance to be a normal person." I don't want him to be normal! I want him to repay his debts to the people he actually wronged! Like if you want to cast Megatron as a hero of the people so badly (which so many of his stans do as if he actually cared about the Cons) then how do you reconcile the fact that Megatron just fucked off and left the Decepticons to suffer on Cybertron? Including some of them attacking during his trial and getting killed and Megatron is basically like "sorry, I'm not coming with you and this isn't going to work." And then Megatron complains about "toxic Decepticon loyalty" as if he didn't literally make them that way? Like I get that MTMTE Megatron is still an asshole but if you've read something besides MTMTE and know what the Decepticons are going through, it just ends up being really grating.

I just don't see Megatron as being a particularly good hero or having a particularly fulfilling story if he's completely isolated from all the bad things he did on Cybertron/the way the Decepticons are suffering until LL#25 where it's like "ah damn I'm going to trial now, well this is what I deserve so it's fine." Why could we not have seen something like Megatron trying to deradicalize the Decepticons or change their public image so they could integrate into normal Cybertron again? They were living in SLUMS and getting gunned down by Starscream's badgeless enforcers!

The best we got was the Functionist Universe but like.... I'm sorry, but JRO inventing a whole alternate universe for Megatron to save doesn't do jack shit to save or fix the people he left behind in this one. It was especially grating to read because JRO literally wrote in someone saying "you saved billions of lives from the Functionists" as if he was trying really hard to show how good Megatron is because he saved people (and also if not for Megatron existing Cybertron would be even worse and half of your faves would be enslaved or dead, also the Functionist Council was going to genocide organics too so technically they're WORSE than Megatron since they hate organics AND want to enslave their own race).

I read Barber's, JRO's, and MScott's series concurrently using the omnibus + a release order list for phase 3, and after all that I'm kind of puzzled why the fandom seems to ardently love MTMTE Megatron and think he's so well written but then also shit on Optimus for things that he did during the same points in the story? Because, and I know this is a blazing hot take, I honestly think that Optimus makes a better hero of his story than Megatron does for his, and Optimus' personal journey combines his personal and political identities into a narrative that's a lot more gruelling and questioning of his goodness than we got for Megatron in MTMTE. Which is fucking saying something considering Megatron committed crimes against sapient species and Optimus is the guy who tried to stop him from doing that and has always been pro-equal rights for all beings. But people pretty much just cherrypick things like Optimus annexing Earth or beating up Prowl and go "he's bad" and I'm like no??? IDW OP isn't a bad person or a bad character??? It's just that unlike MTMTE Megatron he's placed in a narrative that actually suits the nature of his actions and has themes that match. To the point that IMO sometimes Barber's narrative shits on Optimus excessively or paints him mainly in the most unflattering ways.

But like. It's just funny to me because Optimus spent his entire part of the story doing things like trying to stop Earth from being invaded/colonized yet again. Grappling with his identity as Prime and dealing with the fact that people literally worship him vs. the fact that his upbringing made him see the Primacy as nothing more than a facade of authority/leadership. Having people get mad at him for prioritizing politics over friendship/relationships with other people. Even getting shit on for being a cop a decent amount so people can STFU about IDW OP being "copaganda" or "not held responsible for his actions". The problems that Optimus dealt with were personal because they had to do with his self-doubt, culpability for the war as a leader of one of the armies, distance from his soldiers, etc. But all of these are also POLITICAL struggles. Because Optimus gave up on the chance to just be a normal person having personal struggles when he chose to become a LEADER, which also means that he's held to extremely high standards that he regularly fails at in the eyes of others.

That's why, to me, MTMTE Megatron falls flat in comparison and really as a "hero" or heel-face character in general? Because he also made a decision to be a leader, and IMO once you do things like become the commander of an army and start your own galactic empire, you lose the right to prioritize your personal problems and instead are obligated by the power you've chosen to wield to focus on your POLITICAL problems. If Megatron's power, influence, and crimes are of a social-political nature, then his heel-face turn arc and ways of showing that he's a better person/helping to heal what little damage he possibly can should have been shown with actions that help on a social-political LEVEL. That's why I'm not particularly impressed with his character arc and feel as if it was overhyped by other people in this fandom: sure, the extra character depth and emotion is nice, but I'm not really going to see him as extraordinary or even particularly good when the extent of him "becoming a better person" happens entirely on a random road trip to fuck-off nowhere. Especially not when the ending of LL tried to sell me a "they lived happily ever after" ending while basically leaving the freaking MUTINY as just Rodimus going "oh it's okay you're forgiven, we're all together again" and I guess everyone was fine with Megatron and wanted to spend an eternity on a ship with him just because Getaway died.

This is why I like (the concept/themes of) exRID/OP and the way Optimus' character arc was handled a lot more. Because for Optimus, the personal and the political were as one. He was held accountable for his actions towards others and the disruptive effects they had on a social level, sometimes to a ridiculous extent (the fucking "oh Megatron is an Autobot so now that makes the Autobots colonizers" plot and that stupid colonist screaming about how Optimus is "literally fascist" my beloathed). Even his very personal issues like his relationship with Zeta were still cast in a wider lens of, yeah this is a personal struggle that Orion faced, but he was still part of a Society TM and his actions were sometimes ill-informed or harmful to others. Even if I had a lot of problems with the way Optimus' story was written by Barber (plot holes, little meaningful character interaction, forced conflicts), at least the BASELINE of it was way better than Megatron's in MTMTE. Especially since Optimus' struggle was explictly about things like struggling with responsibility and how he feels he HAS to intervene in political affairs because has to save people/make up for his past mistakes. That's something that a good leader/good person actually does, so I found Optimus to be a better hero (even if his actions weren't all "good") because he was trying to be a good person by actually getting involved with Cybertron/Earth and subjecting himself to something he hates (leadership, war) and dealing with a shitload of criticism instead of just going on a fuckin "personal journey" lksdlkfsd.

Which just makes me extra salty that people hold up MTMTE Megatron as the pinnacle of Megatrons and literally the best Transformers writing evar! while turning up their nose and ignoring or outright despising IDW Optimus. Like okay. I guess since Megatron got handled with silk gloves on while Optimus got put through the wringer of being shit on by every other person in the story, it's easier for you to pretend that Megatron is a poor uwu boy who just needs friendship and love while Optimus is literally the worst bastard to ever exist. Or maybe it's just that since Optimus' story involves him sometimes fucking up, being criticized, or making things worse, that makes him morally bad. As opposed to Megatron who disrupted a lot of other characters' stories in MTMTE, had to have an entire alternate universe invented so that he could "save lives," and got to sail off on a quantum Lost Light happily ever after, so since he's happy and the story says he saved people that means he's a good hero.

#squiggposting #it started out sort of analytical but ended up bitchy #i also feel like for some reason my understanding of what a redemption arc is is different from others?#when i talk to people about it they keep saying 'well M can't make up for what he did'#and i'm like. no that's not what i mean by redemption arc #to me redemption arc literally just means 'a character goes from bad to good over the course of a story'#whether they're forgiven or if they can 'make up for it' objectively is irrelevant like #redemption arc is literally a common label used for the general trope so idk where this confusion is coming from?#also hot take when i say a character should be redeemed i'm literally not talking about wether they're forgiven or pardoned in universe #i just mean. as a reader. do i read their story arc and see them go from bad to good and progress in meaningful ways #do they do something. anything. to address or apologize or fix what they did #is there some sort of symbolic or literal sacrifice or act of service or any Good Thing even if it's only one single moment #then to me they've been redeemed in a narrative sense. it has nothing to do with whether they can literally compensate for hteir crimes #anyways. the tldr of this is that i don't hate mt/mte at all and i also don't hate idw M. i love them in fact #it's just i feel like i was severely let down by how much this fandom hyped and continues to hype mt/mte meg #(peg/gy the pirate spongebob meme voice) that's it? that's the M redemption arc?#that's just a guy going on a space road trip and being emo #mfs tried to tell me it was one of the best tf stories ever written and i'm like. yeah thanks but no #worse still ppl came out of m/tmte going 'actually M was right about everything'#and i'm like. shit take and you are spreading this nonsense everywhere including shitting on my faves w your bad takes #mfs wanna call M a hero of the ppl who at least cared about the cons when he literally left them for broke on cybertron #i don't think idw M had a good heel-face turn arc bc he didn't really like do anything meaningful in the wider scope of things #what if idw M achieved inner peace by protecting the cons and making sure they had rights post war. how about that #i mean for various reasons the story would've been more complicated than that due to editorial and company mandate bullshit #i just feel as if talking about the story narrative itself IDW M's redemption arc is far from remarkable #except for the fact that JRO dared to do it at all perhaps #(vine voice) that's my OPINION!!!!!

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bloodreddemons · 3 months

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Hazbin Hotel Episode 1-4 Hot Takes! ~

They finally dropped. They are finally here, and I have A LOT to say. (Good & the bad, my opinions of course.)

Episode 1 was kinda boring and it just seemed overall weird and off. It didn't really pick back up that well, or align with the pilot too much, and the pilot slapped.

I feel like for those who haven't seen the pilot would be so confused with what is going on or who the characters even are. It feels like you also have to do a bit of digging to actually figure out other details.

I wasn't expecting to like Adam he was funny asf and I loved his singing. Love Alex Brightman he's great.

I can see what people are saying now when they were talking about the premise changing or being different, it definitely seems that way. It just feels like it's all over the place and there's multiple things happening at once. A bit confusing.

Charlie just looks weird to me I don't know why, I kinda like how she used to look.

Sir Pentious new voice is better. Again, love Alex Brightman. Lol.

Loser, Baby, Hell is forever, Poison, & Respectless are the best songs so far. Stayed Gone is ok too tho.

I'm interested in finding out why Lilith & Alastor were gone for like 7 years. I wonder where they went and it just makes me wonder if the war against heaven was possibly planned?? 🤔

I love Brandon Roger's but I didn't really like him as Katie Killjoy I think I liked the other VA. I just don't hear Katie, I hear Bryce Tankthrust.

I wish Vivzie designed Sir Pentious with more of a steampunk look since that's what era he's from so he's not wearing almost the same exact suit every other Overlord has.

Nifty is literally fucking iconic. I enjoyed her every time she was on screen even if it was for a short time. She's so funny.

I was expecting Vox & Valentino to have deeper voices but they still sounded great.

Velvette fucking ATE I was pleasantly surprised by her. I love her so much. She's my favorite of the VVV's and her singing is so good.

Charlie & Vaggie's fight wasn't that impactful, it kinda just came out of nowhere and seemed like something that should have happened way later. It didn't even seem like such a big deal either to be an argument.

I don't really like Vox as a person for letting Valentino treat Angel Dust the way he does. Just trash. He has to know about it.

Vox is just too obsessed with Alastor. He wants his cock soooo bad it's kinda crazy. It's the most fakest beef ever. Bad meat.

I like the new VA's they're amazing, but I do really miss the old ones. Most of them.

I think Vaggie's singing is better than Charlie's and that's fucked up because singing is like her whole thing.

Camilla killing the Angel wasn't that impactful because we don't really know who she is.

I don't really care to know how they will be trying to redeem people...idk I always thought that those parts would be boring.

So far I don't think the show was worth a 4 year wait....

Huskerdust WILL be canon at this rate. They might just be the best couple.

Charlie should have lit Valentino's ass up for treating Angel Dust the way he was. She shouldn't have listened to Angel and just fucked him up. Stop crying omfg!

I get that Husk & Angel are like in the same boat & all but....is being Alastor's minion really as bad as being constantly knocked around by Valentino?

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justmenoworries · 3 months

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My unorganized thoughts about Hazbin finale because I am feeling all the feelings.

Positives

The songs? Absolute bangers. Both of them. The Chaggie "More Than Anything" reprise got spoiled for me but I still loved it. We stan a supportive couple ready to go to war together. The reprise for "Happy Day in Hell" at the end was a nice touch. Loved that it was Lucifer who picked up the slack to cheer up Charlie. Mans finally becoming the dad who stepped up.

The battle as a whole was awesome. Hot take, but if Adam didn't have the spawn infinite enemies cheat all bad guy armies seem to have in these situations, the Hotel definitely would've won.

I'll admit, I wasn't too jazzed about Sir Pentious replacing Mimzy in the main cast but he kind of redeemed (lol) himself for me this episode. Bro was both one of the funniest and most heartwarming characters in the finale get yourself a man who can do both. The unholy (lol) noises I made when he showed up as a redeemed soul in Heaven. Good for him! He deserves the best. Also I find Sera's and Emily's reactions to the reveal kind of interesting. Emily is overjoyed seeing that Charlie's idea works, but Sera looks... mortified? Disgusted? Kinda tells us which one of these two really deserves the title of Big Good. Side note, but it's kind of funny how the only physical change a redeemed sinner goes through is that their color scheme is now pastel instead of goth.

ADAM FUCKING DIED YESSIRRRRR! GOOD RIDDANCE BITCH NO ONE WILL MISS YOUUUU (Except for Lute, but no one gives a fuck about what Lute thinks, cry harder hoe)

Charlie's and Lucifer's true formssss! Razzle and Dazzle getting to be badassss! (R.I.P. Dazzle, hope you somehow end up in Heaven too)

Alastor Vs Adam. Cool fight, surprisingly not as one-sided as one might've thought. I mean, Alastor still lost but he lasted a lot longer than most of the others who fought against Adam (Poor Sir Pen)

Vaggie and Lute rematch, I fucking called ittttt!

Seeing everyone gear up and fight for the Hotel was cool, seeing so many Exorcists get axed off was cathartic as fuck.

Lute losing a part of her body because of Vaggie, just like she took a part of Vaggie's body was *chef's kiss*.

Lucifer Vs Adam and Lucifer just... not taking the fight seriously at all until Charlie almost gets hurt. He was really just toying with Adam for the entire first half and when he started getting serious Adam got trashed so fucking quick, I love it.

Charlie fucking shanking Adam and stopping his punch Just Like That. I lover her, she's such a badass. Sure wish we could've seen more of that (foreshadowinggg)

Vox acting as the greek chorus for the events of the episode works surprisingly well. Ngl I thought his constant commentary would get annoying really fast if they kept cutting away from the action just so he can say a funny. But no, they actually managed to time it pretty well. Props to Adam Stein (writer for this episode).

The Negatives (Yes, They Exist)

The other Vees did not need to be here. Seriously, we're starting off with Vox alone in his control room and we could've stayed there. Velvette and Valentino didn't even talk for the majority of the episode. And I'm not a fan of how Val continues to be played for comedy. Unfriendly reminder that this man is a r*pist and an abuser. If you needed a V for the funnies, Velvette and Vox are quite literally right there. (Can you believe Velvette had no lines this episode but fucking Val had both a speaking role and a not insignificant part of the ending song? Weak.) You can still have the ending scene of the Vees hanging out and planning after the aborted Extermination, literally nothing changes if you cut Val and Velvette from the cutaway gags.

Not a fan of how Lucifer stole the spotlight. "But you said you liked the Adam Vs Lucifer fight-" Yeah, I did. Doesn't change that this shouldn't have been Luci's fight, it should have been Charlie's. We've had hints this whole season that Charlie is actually way stronger and wrathful than anyone thinks and that she's actively working to keep up her cheerful and friendly persona. Her stabbing Adam with her trident was a nice start, but after Lute killed Dazzle and seriously endangered Vaggie, this should've been the moment Charlie decided "Alright that's it, no more Miss Nice Girl, I didn't want this to end in bloodshed but these assholes are going down." This should've been the moment where the gloves come off. How much more impactful would it be if Charlie was the one beating down Adam but stopping before killing him? If the show made it clear Charlie could murder this asshole, but she doesn't, because she's still better than he ever will be. What a way to show that Charlie truly does believe in the good in everyone or at least still believes in non-lethal solutions to the conflict between Heaven and Hell! But nope, Charlie gets two badass moments, then is banished to the side-lines and to the role of damsel Lucifer has to save and who has to be the metaphorical angel on Lucifer's shoulder who stops him from offing Adam (for some reason). If we needed to get Lucifer involved, maybe have him show up earlier to help the Hotel but get hurt somehow, forcing and motivating Charlie to step up as the future ruler of Hell. Speaking of-

Why the fuck was Lucifer so late to the fight??? Yeah yeah, I know, depressed shut-in, but in "More Than Anything" he literally calls Charlie "the only thing worth fighting for" in Hell. He knew the Extermination was coming. Yeah, maybe Charlie didn't tell him that the trial in Heaven went south and that Adam's Exorcists were going to target the Hazbin Hotel, but you'd think he'd have noticed something was up??? More importantly, if he really wanted to support Charlie's dream of saving the sinners in Hell, why didn't he take part in the battle from the start??? Why didn't Charlie ask him to fight alongside her??? Yeah, Charlie is reluctant to ask Lucifer for anything because they don't have the best relationship, but we've had an entire fucking episode of them growing closer and Lucifer assuring Charlie he'd help her. And this wasn't just a matter of pride, Charlie's friends and her girlfriend were in danger of getting killed, you're telling me she'd choose her own hang-up over all of them??? "But if Lucifer was there, the fight would've been over too quick-" refer to the previous point. Angels can be hurt and killed by angelic weaponry, there were like over a hundred Exorcists on that battlefield and don't tell me Adam would be above fighting dirty by attacking while Lucifer is distracted. There. Easy way to take Lucifer out of the fight and make way for Charlie.

Not a fan of how Cherri Bomb x Sir Pentious was bullrushed in this last episode. Yeah, we established Pentious likes her, but Cherri had like no interest in him until Angel commented he might have two dicks. Which, I guess her being after a purely physical relationship could work, but we all know that's not what Pentious wants. Their "romance" gives "He Was a Boy She Was a Girl" vibes. Like Velvette and Valentino, nothing in the episode would've been lost if that particular plot-line was dropped.

"The future of Hell belongs to the Vees" Yeah but does it though? Does it? Sorry, but I'm having a hard time taking these three seriously as a threat. Vox got effortlessly trounced by Alastor (and contrary to what the Vees believe he isn't missing, he came back), Velvette talked a big game about fighting the Exorcists but then did absolutely nothing and Val would eat dirt so fast against anyone who can actually fight back. Plus "Overlords hanging by a thread"? Which Overlords, exactly? Alastor? He's not dead and like previously stated, he's not 'missing'. Rosie, Carmilla, Zestial and the rest of the Overlords are just fine, the Extermination was centered around the Hazbin Hotel this time, no other turf even got scratched. "Nature abhors a power vacuum" What power vacuum? Again, no Overlords even died! No territory outside the hotel was destroyed! Are they just on a high from Alastor's supposed disappearance? I hope that's it, because otherwise damn, you three fucking suck at being Overlords.

#hazbin hotel #hazbin hotel spoilers

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dupliciti · 3 months

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in an effort to mentally redeem myself and feel like the EN VO for sa.mpo didn't rob me - i'm watching the companion mission in japanese ( it'll take me a hot minute to get there on another account of mine, but i'll end up playing in in KR VO no doubt. ) i already watched the main story content in all the VO languages

also some nitpicking on the english text being fucked up

the depth??? like there's more depth that can be heard compared to previous content for JP ( at the very least, i want to assume that the other VAs have also settled into the voice in their own unique ways. like i will and can admit to saying EN VA did settle but i do not like the way he settled into the voice ajksdg ) omg. when sa.mpo sounds disappointed or upset, perhaps even "reserved" he speaks softer and lower. and when pensive or thinking things through ( spoken aloud ) the fluctuation isn't as pronounced.

typical sa.mpo whining and fluctuation found throughout the entire mission and 2.0 story mission might i add... ( like any differences in the EN VO for sa.mpo are NOT because sparkle is disguised as him. ) hearing his worry or exasperation is also incredibly amusing

HIS CRYING NOISE IM LOSING IT ( at the end of the super short audio clip )

also i actually really adore the JP VO for sparkle it fits her so well

ALSO HOLD THE FUCK UP OKAY. in the english transliteration for the text when sa.mpo refers to his mask it's not in quotations, even though when i was reading the leaked script, mask HAD been in quotations, which made me sus about it

guess the fuck what

the word mask is in quotations for the japanese characters HELLO???? ENGLISH TRANSLATIONS ALWAYS FUCKING UP

FIRST HIS HEIGHT BEING INCORRECTLY TRANSLATED ( should be 5.9ft meaning about 5'11 but i still subscribe to my headcanon of him being taller than that anyways askdhjg ) and now this??? what are YA DOIN

also him saying ノーコメント was cute

anyways he sounds a million times more sus in japanese talking to sparkle than the EN VO has him, which he literally just sounds like a fucking joke i hate it so much

#( spoilers; )#( ◇ ᵐʸ ᵈᵉᵃʳ ᵃᵘᵈⁱᵉⁿᶜᵉ┊ ooc; )

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thedawningofthehour · 1 year

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I'll be honest, after the emotional beating of the last chapter I was really considering taking a break from the fanfic until more chapters were updated, however, my curiosity was stronger and I ended up reading chapter 14 and all I can say is.... Thank you.

Taking a time jump was very helpful for the readers to breathe and not have to deal with the aftermath of the failed rescue, which would have been very heavy.

Seeing Big mama will always be welcome, and OH MY GOD! what a woman! The fact that she is already 5 steps ahead of everyone shows why she is the most powerful woman in the hidden city. Donnie will be back with his brothers, one way or another, even if one of those ways means he will now have a new stepmom. But hey, at least she won't brainwash your father into forgetting about you and keep you away!

By the way, I find Splinter's relationship with big mama quite interesting. Despite what she did to Splinter, he still loves her, and I think that's because of the time they spent together. Lou met Bmm in 1984 and the writers said he spent 10 on the nexus, if we do the math then that would mean they were together for 20 YEARS, TWENTY YEARS! no one spends that much time with someone without developing a deep bond, for better or worse. Also, we have several clues that his time in the nexus wasn't all bad, Big mama certainly gave him a lot of privileges, I still don't know why lou was in that little cell when Huggin and Munnin went after him, but I have theories.

Sorry if this is long, but I'm a sucker for hero x villain ships. Maybe for that reason I also ship him with Draxxum.

I think it was the right decision. Originally the chapter opened up on it, but it was just...like you said. An emotional beating. Everyone was still in the adrenaline cooldown, Splinter had completely checked out, Leo was trying (and failing) not to disassociate, and it ended up being mostly a three-way fight between April, Raph, and Mikey, which in turn ended up being more of a April/Raph vs. Mikey fight because that's usually how it devolves. They were all lashing out at each other and there was no real closure to anything because they were all too upset to really talk. It was just pure angst.

Which...I know that's what you guys are here for, but I just felt there were better ways to get it across. There are some bits that turned out nice, and I'll definitely use them down the line. This just wasn't the right place for them. Leo's been mostly coping by disassociation, so my explanation is that he disassociated so hard right afterwards that he doesn't really remember it too well.

The handling of Big Mama is one of the...I don't want to say the worst things about the writing, because Big Mama is fucking great. She's an incredible character and you can tell that the writers had so much fun with her. But it seemed like they couldn't decide if she should be a redeemable villain like Draxum or the one true villain of the show. Splinter still having the hots for her after she kidnapped him-yeah, he's a himbo and a slut, I'd be more worried if he didn't make those kinds of questionable judgements.

But like...she tries to kill his kids. And not because she was tired of them messing with her shit for the fifth time that week, she explicitly states that her wealthy clients requested them. (which is another layer of what the fuck) She was literally using them to make snuff films. And then five minutes later their own father is saying there's 'still good in her'? And they say that she'd 'do anything for dad'? Except not murder his children apparently? I guess that was too hard for her?

(ooooh, I'm thinking about my 'dark armor corruption' theory in regards to Draxum's behavior at the end of s1 and if it could be applied to her-don't mind me)

Um...anyway. So my story for Splinter is that she 100% kidnapped him-like, Lou Jitsu has whole conspiracy subreddits dedicated to him and his disappearance, he is the Roanoke colonists of this universe. (even moreso now that I think about it, since it's super obvious what happened to them. A bunch of people are probably like "guys, it was the girlfriend, come on she absolutely murdered him") I headcanon that Lou Jitsu was more of a B-list or C-list star and he became a cult classic after his disappearance. Splinter didn't want to fight-but he was good at it, the adrenaline and energy from the crowd made him feel good, and the fights let him get the anger out. Since he was putting on a good show Big Mama let him have some privileges, like going out for drinks and shit, but he refused to be her arm candy anymore. The cell was definitely a recent thing-I think Big Mama got sick of him refusing to fight and threw him in there to get him to comply.

Everyone's all thirsty for Splinter in this universe and Splinter's like "I'm a single dad of four. I haven't slept in eight years. I've wiped too many butts to find them sexy." He does not have time for that.

#doth asks

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scorpionyx9621 · 3 years

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While the art is left to be desired (i'm hope i use this ohrase right, my english is awful). I suprised that i found future state!Jason to be more enjoyable than Urban Legend one. Like he's way more capable there and [spoiler alert] also Bruce depend on him and still call him son? So you can have a bad ass Jason and good son jason at the same time.

So I need to apologize because this turned into a rant about Jason's characterization as whole and MAN is it long-winded and I'm sorry.

I have to agree. I really like the characterization Future State/Dark Detective is going for with Jason.

Jason is still the typical Jason we've grown to expect. Cold, cynical, snarky, willing to cross the dark red line and kill if need be, but he's still shown to have emotions. When he's betraying the family it's vocalized by Jason that he's upset about the situation. He doesn't want to, but he must for the mission Bruce put him under.

Truth be told, I'm not fully caught up on Future State/Dark Detective. I've kind of been reading spoilers and just getting the general gist in the periphery from people like you on Tumblr. I've been more focused on Urban Legends, which, while I will say I still don't hate the story, hell we still have two issues left of Cheer, and I by no means think Chip Zdarsky is a bad writer by any means. His characterization of Jason irks me.

*God I was so on the fence about Eddy Barrow's take on Jason until Issue #3. That right there? THAT. That's a handsome ass man Maurry*

ANYWAYS: I'm irked by Zdarsky's take on Jason just because of how hot headed and brash Jason is. Now don't get me wrong, every main writer for Jason has taken a bit of a different spin and while the big characters who have written Jason (Judd Winnick, Scott Lobdell, Tony Daniel) and while Zdarsky seems to be what I'm hoping to be a bit of a medication of Jason & Bruce's relationship. He's doing it at the expendature of Jason's characterization of being a damn near criminal mastermind.

If we focus on Winnick and Daniel's interpretation of Jason (Winnick wrote the original Under the Hood & Lost Days. Daniels wrote Battle for the Cowl) as well as all Pre-New 52 versions of Jason. Jason is a monster. Like genuinely a horrible human being. He still fights for right moral side (he kills mostly child abusers/drug traffickers and the likes) but this Jason is genuinely unhinged and while smart, he's absolutely monster. Hell, in Battle for the Cowl after hearing Bruce's final words, he has a villainous breakdown. Dresses as batman, and starts killing people. Judd Winnick himself said he sees Jason as a 'Psychopath' and there are a lot of very vocal people who say Winnick's original interpretation of Jason as a violent, misanthropic villain is the superior version and that Jason should return to this.

*I love to point out that I made a post on my alt account questioning Jason's age in this issue. Turns out he's Like SEVENTEEN. I get why they draw him older and more mature because of his darker/more villainous tendencies. But there's something kind of True Crime Podcast host fascination I have with this greasy, crusty, 17 year old who just casually kills 30 mobsters in horrific gun violence and calls it a day.*

Then we have the New 52. And in comes Red Hood & The Outlaws + the eventual Red Hood: Outlaw series. Piloted by the one Scott Lobdell. Now I know a lot of people dislike Lobdell for his takes on certain characters, his all-over-the-place writing style. (Let's not forget his allegations of SA and the fact that he openly admits that he wrote Jason as a self-insert for a 'bad guy seeking redemption') this was my first comic experience with Jason and to be honest, I can't bring myself to hate it. Sure there's some parts that literally show how much of a dumpster fire Lobdell's writing can become, but for the most part I genuinely liked the characterization of Jason that Lobdell gives. Jason may be a bit more reactionary and just kind of making shit up as he goes along, but he's far from dumb. The intro to the series has Jason sneaking into a terrorist run nuclear sub and killing everyone inside.

Again: Lobdell's writing is all of the place. But I do like that his take on Jason is a bit more subdued. I know in the New 52 they wanted to make Jason an Anti-Hero. Someone who very much still driven by emotion and revenge. But he's definetly more relaxed and even has a lot of fun. Intelligence wise he has is moments, but it does emphasize that while he may be the best read Robin, he does have a tendency to leap before he looks. Also all the art for RHATO with the exception of a few series were TOP TIER. I understand why they hired artists like Kenneth Rocafort and Dexter Soy to rehabilitate his image. I mean, come on.

Now if we're talking about Jason's intelligence, I'd be absolutely remiss if I didn't discuss Red Hood: Outlaw and the Price of Gotham Arc. Specifically this exchange between Bruce & Jason. To me, this is the single best part of Lobdell's run and shows Jason's true intelligence.

To give a rundown: After Bruce banished Jason from Gotham after seemingly killing the Penguin. Bruce proceeded to find Jason and literally beat him to within an inch of his life. It took MONTHS for Jason to recover. A lot happens but mostly Jason finds out (from Bruce no less) that Penguin is still alive. Jason hatches a devious plan. He takes over the iceberg lounge, kidnaps and holds Penguin hostage. Publically outs himself as Jason Todd, the dead ward of Bruce Wayne, as alive and well, and the new owner of the Iceberg Lounge.

When Bruce finds out he's clearly pissed and goes to confront Jason because he's banished him from Gotham. But because Jason outed himself as alive and one of Bruce's sons. Batman can do NOTHING. Jason has Bruce by the balls. If Bruce does anything to Jason while he's out and alive as Jason, all Jason has to do is tell the truth. And the whole Batman jig is up in an instant. And Bruce? After these panels? He runs off with his tail between his leg because he can't touch Jason. And all Jason did was capture penguin, and come out as alive. THIS is the Jason that I love. This is the Jason that strikes fear into people's hearts.

I think a lot of the general complaints we see about Jason as a whole is just how inconsistent he is with his writing. Which I agree. It's hard to characterize Jason well when there's been a character like Lobdell who was at the Helm of Jason's character for 10 years and then forced to leave. And I don't really know if DC has any really solid plans for his character and development. There's a lot of hype surrounding the end of Cheer and them saying it'll 'change Red Hood & Batman's relationship forever' as well as with Jason being featured in the new Suicide Squad coming this August, and Jason getting a feature in an issue of Robin. It'll be interesting to see where they take the character. Personally I do want a resumption of Jason. But like Harley Quinn where they're taking their sweet time redeeming her. Jason has done A LOT of awful things and of they wanna make him a hero, I want a few years to pass in terms of monthly issues before we see Jason become a hero again.

*edit: spelling*

#Jason Todd #Bruce Wayne #Batfam #red hood and the outlaws #red hood outlaw #batman urban legends #Batman future state #Red Hood #Red Hood lost days #judd winick #scott lobdell #Battle for the cowl #im sorry this is long #thanks for the ask!

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