#also the people around the clones (including Jedi) tend to pick up the more common phrases | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

norcumii · 5 years

Text

Reblogging a post from the prior blog, typos and all, because while I like the meta I am not comfortable sticking this on AO3.

Originally posted on 06/08/2018

I was kindly directed towards this post about the Mind Trick (it’s not a Jedi specific ability, so I’m not going to refer to it as the Jedi Mind Trick), because it’s one of my areas of interest and I can think of at least 3 of our stories where we’ve already planned on addressing the topic.

There is…rather a lot of this post that I take issue with. I’m making my own post because it’s a big fandom, everyone gets to view things how they want, don’t harsh the squee, etc etc.

Stuff under the cut, TRIGGER WARNINGS for: mind fuckery, gaslighting, victim blaming, and mention of various mental illnesses.

To start: mind fuckery is bad. I have a lot of personal experience with gaslighting, so I get twitchy about the notion of someone messing with my head. When I say gaslighting here, I mean both the vernacular (someone lying to fuck with a target) and the technical sense (from Wikipedia: “a form of manipulation that seeks to sow seeds of doubt in a targeted individual or in members of a targeted group, hoping to make them question their own memory, perception, and sanity. Using persistent denial, misdirection, contradiction, and lying, it attempts to destabilize the target and delegitimize the target’s belief”). So the possibility of someone coming in and forcibly changing my perceptions and memories is Very Not Cool. I think it’s an ability that canon does use a bit too casually for my own preferences, but the same could be said about how quick everyone is to pull out blasters.

Calling it ‘evil,’ though, goes way too far. As with many things, it’s neither good nor bad, it’s about how it’s used. So what good uses are there, you might ask?

Well, just off the cuff, we’ve got:

Breaking gaslighting

assisting with hallucinations and compulsive behavior

assisting with phobias

basically all the things cognitive behavioral therapy is useful for, now with a Force-assisted oomph

treating addictions

treating trauma, including PTSD

assisting with meditation and mindfulness

aiding memorization and learning

non-violent means to defuse potentially violent situations

Now, that last one in particular is questionable, and would vary as appropriate from situation to situation. Which is a greater evil, a security guard shooting and presumably killing a bank robber that could kill lots of people, or a Jedi using the Mind Trick to get them to surrender to authorities? People will probably give you different answers, but that’s the point about how this is tricky. It also doesn’t even get into ‘who decides how ethical a thing is’ and fears of authoritarian regimes, which I’m just not in the mood to tackle right now.

Moving on, we’ve got the OP’s interpretation of sources.

I. Well. Look, EU stuff is of questionable quality and level of canon in the first place. Secondly, there’s that weird split in both fandom and creators of canon where Jedi and Sith tend to be viewed as all good or all bad, not organizations what are fucked up and in need of reform. Third, I don’t have the texts they’re quoting so I can’t give you context, meanwhile it’s first person which is often used as an authorial mechanism to give unreliable narration and so immediately makes me hesitate to accept them whole-heartedly.

With all that in mind, I have a REALLY different interpretation than OP.

Jedi Order does not disclose their power, people don’t know how the Force works. All they know is that Jedi are good. That’s it.

Totally false. Both Jabba and Watto knew about the Mind Trick when it was being used on them. These are folks from Outer Rim areas – the boonies, where Republic education would not be standardized and taught – neither of them seems to be the type to either have extensive knowledge of fairy tales about Jedi abilities, nor a background in historical trivia. When Jabba declares he’s immune to Jedi mind tricks, no one around him acts confused or surprised – there’s no question what this is. Watto – a former soldier who now owns a junk shop – also knew the handwave was meant to indicate something, like he knew exactly what it would convey. So I’m pretty sure this means it’s common knowledge.

No, wait, it’s demonstrated in the next quote as to be known:

referred to by Jedi as affect mind and alter mind, but popularly known as Jedi mind tricks

JEDI refer to this ability as Affect Mind. OTHERS call it Jedi mind tricks. That doesn’t mean Sith, that means the general populace.

there are rumors but the victims are usually dismissed (or end up with brain damage) because they didn’t understand what happened to them and because this power was usually performed on “less influential” members of the Republic

Not backed up by their own data. The quote mentions “a relatively innocent subject” but there’s nothing that extrapolates to mean it’s more often used on the poor/disadvantaged. It IS typical Jedi sanctimoniousness, but it’s not about targeting more vulnerable beings.

The brain damage comment is also inaccurate for reasons I personally find frustrating. The quote is “the power can easily cause permanent damage”.

That doesn’t mean brain damage. There are plenty of ways to fuck with someone and ruin them without brain damage. IF the Mind Trick is extreme and unlimited in power, then you can make someone: perpetually anxious/depressed; so self-effacing as to never stand up for themselves; vulnerable to specific commands; all sorts of other nasty things.

That goes back to the whole ‘personal experience with gaslighting,’ and I need to point out that any of this can be done with time, patience, and willingness to fuck with someone. You don’t need the Force to do it. The Force is basically a shortcut, but vilifying the Mind Trick right off the bat because it messes with someone’s head and that’s something we norms can’t do is erroneous.

And the Jedi don’t see to care because they see their victims as weak-minded (like they had it coming).

That’s a deliberate spin on the text. Looks like I’m quoting the whole thing because I can’t pick out just one bit:

A Jedi can use the Force to manipulate the behavior and perceptions of weak-minded beings. Essentially, this power—referred to by Jedi as affect mind and alter mind, but popularly known as Jedi mind tricks—utilizes a combination of receptive empathy, projective empathy, and hypnosis. Jedi mind tricks can stop the understanding of what’s really happening by blocking the senses, and can also obliterate memories altogether or even replace them with false ones. [Star Wars Jedi vs Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force by Ryder Windham]

As a Jedi, you should be able to sense immediately whether the guard is prone to violence or susceptible to fear. This knowledge can be used to your advantage, and may direct your use of affect mind. Also, you must determine whether it is best to divert or subdue your target. Such decisions must often be made instantly, without hesitation. What would I have done in such a situation, you ask? I really can’t say. A Jedi is not proud or boastful, and I trust you will understand I am sincere when I say that it is hard for me to imagine that the guard might have spied me in the first place, had I not wished to be seen. But if a guard had seen me, I might make him believe I was nothing but a gust of wind, or the shadow of a soaring indigenous avian. A Jedi can do such things, for it is the will of the Force. [Star Wars Jedi vs Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force by Ryder Windham]

“Weak-minded” isn’t victim bashing, it’s back to sanctimoniousness. The narrator is describing who it can affect. It’s the exact same phrasing that was used in the Original Trilogy when we first encountered it. It’s not “those who are affected by the Mind Trick are weak willed and deserve it,” it’s “the Mind Trick only works on those with weak wills, and if someone isn’t weak willed then we’re just standing there waving a hand and talking like an idiot.” Which ALSO ignores that there are entire species who are resistant/immune to the Mind Trick and mental influences, and they can’t all be ‘strong-willed’ so that means the comment is bullshit anyways. It’s shorthand for “so this works on some people, but if they’re already on alert or tend to be stubborn you’re shit out of luck when it comes to making friends and influencing people even with your space magic.”

The “will of the Force” bullshit is more of the same. It’s a sanctimonious way of saying “I got lucky on the genetic lottery,” not “It’s the will of the Force I have this power and it’s the will of the Force this weak-minded being is here therefore it’s the will of the I remove their agency and do what I want to their mind.” Yes, some assholes are going to use that as an excuse for their behavior. Assholes are always going to find some excuse for their behavior, be it religion, substances, background, or whatever else might be in reach.

On top of all this, the Mind Trick is hardly a Jedi specific tool. In Rebels the Inquisitors use it. I want to say that Palpatine used it too but I can’t find anything convenient on Wookieepedia and I’m sorry, I’m not rewatching six movies and Clone Wars just to prove a point. Meanwhile, Mother Talzin DID visibly use it to manipulate both Asajj Ventress and Savage, so Nightsisters are obviously familiar with it. There’s no reason other Force users couldn’t do the same, it’s just that Jedi are the predominant group of such in the Republic.

In sum, the Mind Trick is a dick move, that post presumes a lot of incorrect things, and it really shouldn’t be called the JEDI Mind trick.

Finally, in criticism of the Jedi Order: Qui-Gon is so casual about his use in TPM, it makes me twitch. I love the guy, massive faults and all, but it often feels like this is the first tool he reaches for, not the last one. I get that this is a time-critical mission with an entire city going into prison camps, and those peoples’ fates rest on him getting shit done fast. I get that he has to weigh the Chancellor’s request vs planetary needs vs individual autonomy vs the lives of those he’s responsible for. (It’s still most often a dick move.) Meanwhile Obi-Wan’s…THING in Attack of the Clones with the deathstick dealer – I will never understand it, and I usually headcanon it as something other than what we literally see because WHAT EVEN you do not fuck with someone’s head like that. The casual “let’s raid Cad Bane’s mind!” thing in TCW is several massive types of awful. Given these charming examples (and there are others, but those are the ones I immediately think of), it’s no wonder that the Order has a reputation.

~end

There was also a follow-up post the same day:

oft-goes-awry replied to your post:I was kindly directed towards this post about the…

RE: Obi-Wan and the Death-Sticks Guy - Without going too deeply into the Mind Trick as a whole, I think we can break this moment into two parts, neither of which are GREAT, or good, even, but are mostly pragmatism and Jedi sanctimoniousness. 1) “You don’t want to sell me death-sticks” = “I am trying to remain undercover in this bar, without causing a fuss or getting people shot, and I have neither the time nor the patience to argue with you or risk a scene. …so please, GO AWAY.“ 2) "You want to go home and rethink you life.” = Jedi Sanctimoniousness, I know what’s good for you better than you do, and I don’t think anyone should be selling death sticks, so see, I’m HELPING you? Because Jedi know better and I am a Jedi, peon!

Yes, thank you! Well said! And credit where (what little) credit is due: he tells the guy to rethink his life, not actually change it. If dude goes home, thinks on things, and decides nope, he’s already living the life he wants, then he can keep at it –

which still sounds awful and sanctimonious, but it’s not quite as skin-crawlingly horrible.

#reviving from the purge #star wars #Norcumi has Opinions again #thinky thoughts #jedi #tw #mind fuckery #gaslighting #mental illness #victim blaming

21 notes · View notes

kyberled · 7 years

Note

1, 16, 19, 31, 38, & 41 !! ( ik that's a lot i'm sorry lol )

42 character development questions!

1. How do they move and carry themselves? Pace, rhythm, gestures, energy?

I will start by saying that Braig talks with his hands. Unless he’s holding his hands behind his back, like at parade rest, or carrying something, chances are he’ll be gesturing with every other word. Part of it is because he’s just that energetic, part of it is because it’s easier for him to get his point across with gestures, and a third part of it is that talking with your hands has combative applications. I am not kidding. It’s a way to have your hands up and ready if you need them, without seeming aggressive.

He usually walks at a steady pace, with speed depending on where he’s going, and why and when he needs to be there. His hands are often behind his back, resting at his hips, or with his thumbs hooked through his belt, if they’re not hanging loose. He tends to like fiddling with or holding things, though, so he’s not usually just sitting with his hands idle.

His posture is straight, whether he’s walking, sitting, or sparring, since it makes him look taller, reduces the likelihood of back problems, and helps with balance and stances and the like. He doesn’t tend to slouch unless it’s to express a mood or emphasise a word, and he would never do this in formal conversation - it’s hard enough to get people to take him seriously, as is.

A few people have described his overall movements as ‘fluid’ and ‘flowy’, and that’s a good way to put it. It’s a result of his training, mostly, but also the areas he’s focused on, and his general body type. He’s got muscle, sure, but he’s not a Dwane Johnson or John Cena. He’s lean, I suppose, is what I’m getting at. He doesn’t have a lot of bulk to hinder his movement, and, on top of that, his training helps him be as graceful as any other Jedi.

Energy, for him, depends on what mood he’s in. Like most people, he has highs and lows, and it all depends on what’s happening around him. If he’s excited or angry, it’s more high-energy, sad or tired or content are low, confused is somewhere in between. Of course, even then, it can vary, but that’s the usual.

Braig gestures a lot, so I’m just going to list a few of them here. When he’s nervous, he’ll tug on his scarf; when he loses his scarf, he tugs on his sleeves, his collar, the hems of his shirt/tunic, or his padawan braid, if he still has it. When he gets his infamous facial scar, he scratches at it idly, and often has no idea if he’s doing it. When he’s ashamed, being scolded, or uncomfortable, he’ll hunch his shoulders and avoid eye contact, maybe bunch his fists around the hems of his sleeves. If he feels unsafe, he’ll have his hands resting on his lightsabers, and he’ll be gathering strands of the Force around him. If he’s angry, he’ll be tensed, gritting his teeth, and making eye contact with his shoulders back, possibly with his hands held behind his back and tightly clasped, depending on the situation. Another thing he’ll do if he’s nervous is run his fingers through his hair, but he’ll do that idly, too. If he’s afraid or unsafe and Obi-Wan is around, he’ll hold on to Obi’s sleeve (It’s a habit developed over long years, and it’s gotten to the point in threads where Obidad just holds his arm out automatically; Braig appreciates it). When he’s thoughtful, he’ll stroke his chin with his right hand, usually look to the floor with his brow furrowed; If he’s excited, he’ll rock/bounce onto the balls of his feet. He’ll puff air out of his cheeks if he’s frustrated, stretch and rub his eyes if he’s sleepy or just waking up. He doesn’t bite or chew on his lips often, but he might, sometimes, on the rare occasion. He tilts his head to the side when he’s listening to someone, curious, or confused, and arches his brow usually; he’ll smother smirks or little laughs behind his hand or fist. If he’s saying hello to someone, or thank you, there’s usually a little bow thrown in - Usually this is for knights and masters, but he’s done to to shop keepers, other padawans, and even a youngling once; It’s a habit that just springs up from time to time, and it can cause some pretty humorous situations. There are more, but I think this is enough for now.

16. Do they dream? What are those dreams like?

Oh, he dreams a lot, almost every night, and it’s almost never pleasant. He sees the faces of those he hasn’t been able to save, of those he wasn’t supposed to save, of places he’s been (those aren’t too bad), battles he’s fought in, traumatic things he’s been through… But he’ll also have dreams about his friends, people he knows well, and the most abstract things. Sometimes it’s nothing.

It depends.

19. How do they behave within a group? What role(s) do they take? Does this differ if they know and trust the group, versus finding themselves in a group of strangers? Why?

Depends on the group. In his best friends (the gathering group), he’s sort of the unsung mastermind. While most people assume that the twins are the ones behind it all, or Lohata or Naweh, he’s actually usually the one coming up with their game plans. Not always, of course. The others have their schemes, too. And once they get going, they all have their own roles and do their own thing, but someone’s gotta get the initial spark.

If Obi-Wan’s part of the group, or any Jedi master or knight he likes or is even remotely curious about, he’ll let them take the lead quite happily, tagging along and asking them as many questions as he thinks he can get away with, and maybe a few more than that, depending. He’s been described as a ‘puppy’ by a lot of people, and that’s not at all inaccurate. He can get very enthusiastic about learning from or spending time with people he likes.

The older he is the more comfortable he is taking an explicit leading position in a group, so, when he’s just starting out in the GAR, he’s more likely to let Cody take charge, since he’s still finding his footing, but the older he gets the more comfortable he is leading on his own.

Chances are if he’s in a group of of strangers and has to take the lead, it’s because there’s some kind of crisis going on. Believe it or not, he’d feel more equipped to handle that than other moments. If it’s not in this context, he’s less of a fan of groups of strangers. He can navigate them fine (it’s a lot easier if he can sense them in the Force, to pick up their emotions), but it’s a lot more comfortable for him to be with familiar people, though that’s not just for him. I think that’s pretty common.

Lastly, since I didn’t mention this earlier, if Braig’s put with a master he doesn’t like (which, given his track record, probably isn’t likely), he will do as he’s told as best he can, but he will trust his gut above anything else, and is way more likely to second-guess what he’s being told to do or think. It’ll be fairly clear that he doesn’t want to be there, but he won’t put civilian or clone lives at risk just because he has a bone to pick. Besides, being too stubborn or difficult would only leave him with punishments, and he’d rather not deal with it. (But he will complain to someone he likes better at a later date.)

31. Is there anything that counts as a “dealbreaker” for them, positively or negatively? What makes things go smoothly, and what spoils an activity or ruins their day? Why?

The first bad-thing that comes to mind is excluding someone based on irrelevant or outright ridiculous logic or prejudice. For example, he understands not inviting the clones to games of push-feather, since that requires Force-sensitivity to play, but if it’s like ‘we don’t want Rodians playing boloball because they have different noses’, I don’t know, he’ll promptly leave as soon as he possibly can. If someone acts really pompous and arrogant and high-and-mighty, he probably won’t want anything to do with them. Anything that involves flying or mechanics work, he’s out; he’s not big on those. If it’s high-energy and he’s just had a long day, that’s a no-go; Anything that glamorises or romanticises the war is right out, so there are a lot of holovids he won’t see, a lot of video games he wouldn’t play even if he were allowed, a lot of books he won’t read, songs he won’t listen to, and so on and so forth. When he’s younger, he’s not a big fan of public speaking or crowds, so that’s out until he gets used to it. Anything that involves breaking the law is right out, in almost all verses, so that’s another thing. When it comes to food, he’s not a fan of carrots and broccoli, so that is also a no. He doesn’t like anything to do with excessive eating, or wastefulness, or even anything to do with buying expensive or luxurious material goods in general. On a ‘bad’ day, he’s not a fan of sitting down for long periods of time unless he has something to feel accomplished or productive with, but on better days, he’s grateful to take some time to meditate or stargaze or go on walks or take tea with his friends and/or master(s). Also, talking with politicians about negotiating treaties to help their people get the food they desperately need while said politician is shovelling imported delicacies into their mouth and complaining about everything. That’s a bad-day maker.

Things that would make a day/activity better include being invited out to something, since that means he’s actually wanted there, or doing anything with people he cares about, so anything to do with the Space Fam or the Gathering Group are right in. Things that involve sparring or building lightsabers, he’s probably down for. He likes flowers and stars and books and tea, so, chances are, he’ll be down for activities involving those. He likes swimming, so he would be glad to do that (though he doesn’t like getting wet, otherwise). If someone wants to brush, braid, or otherwise style or toy with his hair, he’s all for it, depending on who it is (and, obviously, no scissors). He doesn’t like things that are too loud or chaotic, since he gets enough of that when he’s at war; He also isn’t a fan of large crowds, just ‘cause the Force can get a little noisy on top of people themselves, so he’ll enjoy things with smaller groups (And by large crowds, I mean anywhere where people are all packed into a place with not a lot of room. If he’s in a large, open place with a few people, he’ll be chill; But put him in a crowded train car, and he’ll be pretty :/ about it). He likes high-energy things sometimes, but he also likes quiet moments, so something that fits his mood makes it better. Being around people with relatively peaceful Force signatures is another good thing. He likes cooking, and some chores, and he likes being warm, and he likes things he can learn from and challenges.

Over all, it really depends on his mood - there are a lot of things that change and shift on a day-to-day basis. You can usually tell what he’d be interested in or if an idea entices him just by watching his reactions.

38. Is there anything they wish they could change about their worldview or thought processes? What, and why?

He wishes that he wasn’t so emotional, so empathetic, that it was easier for him to detach himself from the things he’s seen and had to do. It would be a lot easier to handle being a Jedi, that way. He also wishes he knew more about the actual situation in the galaxy. The older he gets, the more he realises he’s been drinking the propaganda kool-aide just like everyone else. He doesn’t know the Mandalorian’s side of the story, for example. He doesn’t know why people like Mina Bonteri would join the Separatists. He doesn’t even know why he’s fighting, some days.

41. What associations do they bring to mind? Words or phrases, images, metaphors or motifs? Why?

Aside from the typical stars and galaxies, the images Braig brings to mind are flowers, leather-bound books and blank parchment, fountain pens and ink blotches, gentle scrawls of text, cups of tea or hot chocolate, bandages - often bloody - tiny weapons parts and tools, dirty hands, flying birds, long dark hair, scars, brown fabric (esp. rough), small boxes of candy, pastries, lightsabers, leather boots, etc.

Phrases include ‘kill them with kindness’, ‘someday I’ll be better’, pretty much the entirety of Phil Collins’ ‘Son of Man’, ‘The strong must protect the weak’, ‘I found my family’, ‘The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the womb’, ‘no pain no gain’, ‘my pain is irrelevant, as long as you’re okay’, ‘pull yourself up by your bootstraps’, ‘the sun will come out tomorrow’, ‘spit your blood and wipe your mouth’, ‘a cup of tea a day keeps the doctor away’, ‘he was your father, but he wasn’t your dad’, and a bunch more - I’m not the best with remembering quotes, honestly. There’s a tag for it.

Honestly I- Have a mental collage for Braig, really? It’s just putting them into words. He’s my boy tho. I think about him a lot.

#long post //#thanks for the ask love <3!!#fiighters #&& as best i can; answers #&& give the sun a head start; ooc #&& temple archives; headcanons

3 notes · View notes