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theorynexus · 4 years

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The Regal 75 signals another quarter of the century passing.

I still wonder if 100 posts will be enough to contain the epilogues! (Probably not.) Seems like it will be Jake and Jane, this time! I wonder if this version of events will see them have a consensual and healthy relationship that is not interfered with by the nefarious actions of rude people who happen to be megalomaniacs!

There are benefits and downsides to being “perfect.” (By the way, every utopia is also a dystopia. Let’s just make that absolutely clear from the get-go.) I imagine the weapons industry would be struggling quite a bit if it weren’t for alchemy allowing a nearly limitless capacity for customized gear creation. Wonder what they’re used for since there aren’t wars. Probably the noble art of hunting and whatnot. And professional sports based on combat disciplines a la real life fencing, and in-story Threshing, apparently. Oh, and it’s still weird for her to barge in like that, despite the social norms of that world and the little bit of time they’ve spent there (also how close they are).

I would just like to say that, for one, I would normally sortof side with Jane if those were real degrees (since degrees that are earned actually mean something), but with them being honorary, I honestly can’t properly compare their two experiences (and honestly, while Jane had like... two years more experience than him in her life before SBURB, I don’t think that that is enough to discount the potential knowledge that either of them may have acquired after the game’s completion and/or [in Dave’s case] during their time on the meteor). I would also like to point out that it is very, very nice seeing Jane’s perspective on this matter/rivalry, not just Dave+Co’s. I worry that this is showing her to be a bit too egotistical, and, as I suggested in my commentary on a similar portion of the Meat Epilogue, a bit too unwilling to take others’ perspectives into account (which is a key political skill).

Yes. Yes it does, because that may not continue to stay a thing that is true, and the world at large generally needs people who care about such matters. Something something, joke about Obama, something welfare, public needs, et c.

Suddenly, Jane is a Disney Princess, huh? What an interesting thematic twist. That said: I really wish we had some visualization for this so we’d be able to compare Jade’s home as shown in Acts 3-5 and this one, considering their shared (effective) proprietor. Also the home from Hiveswap, I guess.

What are kitten heels? Also: YES!!! I have wanted to see him using a rifle for SO long! :’D (Interesting to see that the coloration is indeed similar to Jade’s home, with the different lightings. Also interesting that she catches him bathed in the light of Dirk’s influence. Reminds of the first time the topic of romance was brought up between him and she regretfully said she was not interested in him that way.) It is very nice to see she is concerned for his safety, though perhaps a little bit... odd, considering their mutual godhood. I guess she is just generally quite flustered. It’s understandable, with the sudden change of plans.

Very nice to see the bot came out of that unharmed!

I love his ridiculously skewed sensibilities.

Hmm. It is very interesting, seeing that kind of understanding being extended, here, considering how characters’ perceptions about each other have been presented generally, here~ Part of me wants to write a great big analysis post about how perception effects things in Homestuck (both for the reader and the characters), and has since the beginning, but I think I lack the grist of the endeavor, presently. Perhaps later... .

It is nice to see that she is still being affected by her earlier passion for detective works, by the way. That was something that seemed far too absent in the limited exposure to her we got in the Meat Epilogue. We didn’t even get to know that it was an argument about locksmithing that brought up the economic debate with Dave. (This is likely because she holds the issue as being important, and thus close to heart, and he was much more concerned with the later material involved in the one-sided affair. [She seemed unprepared for the sudden rant/challenge.])

Wow. Yeah, he is. It must be that same elation that came from being out from under Dirk’s thumb that came up when Alt!Calliope intervened during the Meat Epilogue’s events.

***opens my mouth to object, holds up one finger, and then cannot even manage a single word; eye twitches for a moment, and then I shake my head and sigh***

Yeah, that is indeed quite logical. An excellent deduction on her part. That she took so long to make it might speak poorly to her detective capacities, but I am willing to give her some slack since she is assuredly out of practice. That said!: Man, Jake... you really shouldn’t mix alcohol and firearms. No one should! (Oh, and Dirk’s Classpect expression probably at least partially accounts for their closeness/cooperation. I’m sure Dave probably wouldn’t have left Bro for a long time, if he hadn’t been left by him in the Beta Kids’ session. Well... to be fair, Davesprite being there might have changed things, but this is already getting out of line with the Alpha, so the feathery guy might not even be there in this scenario. Whatever, though~)

Addiction Hope is a powerful thing. I wouldn’t say “at all,” though. Despite him being something of a dork, there certainly is a charm to him.”

“cheap” and Merlot can go together, huh? Oh, wait, that’s the reverse of the reaction I should be having. (Jaaaaneee... this isn’t a good thing to do!)

Sounds about right. :’) (Rude, but that is natural from the same source that made a robot that tore out its heart, crushed it, and then exploded. He does indeed pour a bit of his soul into every bot, after all~)

Yeah... Jake’s right, but Jane’s right too. Realistically, that’s just not something that can be done. Not until next election cycle, at least. The embarrassment factor is a little bit childish, but honestly pretty realistic, considering the way many politicians are. They just wouldn’t be able to admit it, possibly even while so drunk. :y

***raises an eyebrow*** That is indeed very interesting. I don’t think that would necessarily have to do with Hope powers? Honestly... Could it be that Gamzee’s presence is influencing the world in this way? Rage could certainly be expressed in apathy, but... I don’t think so. Perhaps this is just a consequence of the choice John made. All indications suggest that might be the case. I just... want to know the root causes a bit more. Hmm. I like that people are actually noting this shift and contemplating why that is!

I wonder if Dirk’s control over things dramatically influenced her way of thinking. I would not have necessarily thought that she’d have such an apparently poor view of him, otherwise. But... yeah, I think most of the time it should have been~

Sortof, and yet at the same time, it doesn’t seem that way. I blame the fact that Nanna’s life was so different than Jane’s. Thus, Jane pursuing the path that Nanna did seems more odd than it should. This does indeed seem quite sudden and questionable, though. Very “HMm!” inducing.

Honestly, that’s pretty funny. I do like that he brings up the fact that there is some precedent for her desiring children in this lifetime too, at least on some level. The Tiaratop seems to have only partially changed how she thought about things, and left certain baseline features of her personality intact. (Thus her blushing at Dave’s comment about her, when they first saw one another [at least I’m pretty sure that was when it was].)

... I want to read that. I am somewhat surprised that said advice only came while drunk, but I guess that’s a theme, at this point. Not much to be surprised about, here.

... ***is not sure whether to take her statements as just awkward attempts at seduction, or as major evidence of her being manipulated by a malicious and probably somewhat sexist individual with weird fanfic-y impulses***

I can see why that sort of affection could be appealing. Also, as I said: Hope is a powerful thing. Jake’s is like a black hole. It’s sortof ridiculous.

... Yeah, if I actually were someone who drinks, I’d probably be doing about the same, right then. Man, that is an “Ouch,” if I ever have seen one. And now, to go to bed and forget about all this embarrassment, myself.

#Homestuck Epilogue #Homestuck Spoilers #Candy Epilogue #Suspicious #Homestuck Liveblog

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royallyanxious · 6 years

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Sketches from the Past (Apathy 4/6)

Part 1 (Wrecked Coronation)

Part 1.5 written by my amazing beta @quietlypondering

Part 2 (Twirling Spirits)

Part 3 (Poisoned)

word count: 2.8k

TW: Deceit

read on AO3

Apathy snorted upon seeing Virgil standing in front of his door. How anxious and small did he look, Roman almost felt sorry for him. Almost. It was better, however, to see Virgil than that lying yellow snake. Deceit just didn’t fit into Apathy’s red aesthetic. No deep emotions.

“May I help you?” Roman asked, his voice bored and smooth. Apathy loved his voice, it like a tool that never failed him and that was always ready and willing to be used. He was well-aware that he was intimidating, in fact, he wanted to be intimidating and his voice rich and velvety was an exquisite way to improve the effect.

“May I come in?” squeaked Virgil, looking at the room behind Roman’s back. Apathy leaned against the door frame, crossing his arms on the chest. He slowly rolled his head from one shoulder on another. He could keep up on this act as long as he wanted. It was quite entertaining.

“And why should I let you in?” he raised up his chin, looking at Virgil behind half-closed eyelids.

“I hoped I could interest you in something.” said Virgil and pointed at the folder in his hand.

“You interest me in something?” echoed Roman and laughed sincerely. “Honey, have you forgot my name?”

Virgil shook his head, slowly losing ground under his feet. “You’re Apathy. Roman Apathy Sanders.”

“Precisely.” nodded Roman, leaning forward. The smile disappeared from his face, though mischievous sparks were still brightening up his glowing, red eyes. “You know who I am and yet you dare to suggest that you can my pique interest? The interest of Apathy?”

“Yes.” said Virgil, staring right into Apathy’s eyes.

Roman let that answer sink into his mind. He looked at Virgil, whose back suddenly straightened up, whose hands were gripping the white folder tightly. He noticed that the folder has little red mark in the corner. It looked like a tiny, fresh drop of blood, beautifully matching the white colour. Putting the purity of the object in shame. Apathy shook his head. He shouldn’t reveal too much of his emotions. Especially interest. Especially with Virgil. It was as though he tried to purposely provoke Apathy and that was not appreciated.

“You’ve intrigued me.” said Roman, surprising even himself. “You may come in.” he added, disappearing in the room.

Hesitantly, Virgil walked into the room. His nostrils filled with the smell of roses. The room was spacious and didn’t remind Creativity-Roman’s room even in the slightest. Maybe except of the luxurious accents. But where Creativity used to have bright cream colours with a splash of fresh red, Apathy had crimson red with splashes of black. It was burning Virgil’s eyes in more ways than just one. But he was determined to try his theory out.

Apathy was waiting for him sitting in the big armchair, his face serious and emotionless. It really felt as though he was a king of this place. Virgil stood awkwardly in the middle of the room, feeling like a deer in the spotlight or a criminal waiting for a trail. Apathy rested his chin on the hand, eyes barely looking at Virgil.

“Oh, right!” clapped Roman, though his voice was flat. He waved the other hand elegantly. Next to him appeared another armchair and a small table. Virgil’s eyes widened. It was another thing Apathy seemed to have in common with Creativity. He was able to conjure things. Definitely something Virgil could work with. “Stop staring at me and sit down.” Apathy clicked his tongue and looked away. His proud profile glowing in the red light.

“Yes, thank you.” nodded Virgil. He assumed that it was better not to make Roman angry. He had always been a passionate one. Both as Creativity and Apathy. Virgil sat on the chair, placing the folder on his legs. He wasn’t sure if he should try a small talk or proceed with the plan immediately.

“So…?” Roman’s silky voice embraced the silence. “You said there was something that may entertain me?” He continued, tilting his head to the left.

“Right.” agreed Virgil and put the folder on the table. “Here it is.” It was the only warning he gave to Apathy before opening the case.

Apathy leaned over the table, seemingly unaware of Virgil’s attention. Carefully, he took the first sketch into his hand.

“A drawing.” Roman stated calmly.

Virgil gulped, choosing to stay quiet for now. Every word that came from Roman was like a gem for him. Like a raw, bloody diamond.

“Pretty good sketch if I’m not mistaken.” said Roman, holding up another sketch. “The lines are smooth and well-defined. It’s clear that the artist wanted to say something through his art... This one, for example, wasn’t drawn for attention. It was to express something inside… Some emotion, dark emotion, I suppose. If I was…” he stopped all of sudden and shook his head, eyes blinking.

“If you were?” encouraged Virgil, unable to stop the smile from appearing in the corners of his mouth.

Roman glanced at Virgil behind the sketches. His eyes reminded of delicate poppy petals. For a moment they appeared almost warm.

“If I was an artist myself, I could appreciate them better.” Apathy finished and put the drawnings back at the table. “You should take them to Logan, he knows what to do with them. Isn’t he the creative one after all?” he said matter-of-factly. Back of his head rested against the armchair.

Virgil understood that Roman wasn’t planning on looking at other sketches and his heart sank a little bit. He hid one or two really meaningful drawings between the others in order to surprise Roman. He could see in Apathy’s eyes that he was waiting for Virgil to take the folder away. Instead, Anxiety decided to fiddle with the corner of one of the papers, trying to buy himself some time.

“Aren’t you an artist yourself, Roman?’ he asked quietly.

Apathy blinked slowly before bursting into loud, uncontrolled laughter. It was the most natural laughter Virgil had ever heard coming from Apathy. It wasn’t mocking nor prideful. It was loud, undefined, free. Sounded a little bit as though someone was trying to crush a stone, and a little bit like morning birds singing outside the window. Nothing like old Roman’s laugh and yet painfully similar.

Tears gathered in the corners of Apathy’s eyes as he tried to calm himself down. He looked much more honest, much purer than usually and Virgil’s realized that his own eyes were getting watery too. He quickly wipe them with the sleeve of his hoodie. How he missed hanging out with Roman. Walking through life, hearing his loud, bright laugh and living fanciful dreams. But what hurt him the most was that he, Virgil, was alone with that memory.

He looked at Apathy and his poor attempts of hiding a smile and it made Virgil smile too. Maybe it wasn’t exactly how it used to be, but it was still something. Still worth fighting for.

“Ah, Virgil, I’ve never thought of you to be the joking type! I was sure it was Patton’s domain. You have surprised me.” Roman smiled but this smile wasn’t as real and honest as the previous one. The moment was over and Apathy was back with his royal facade. “I do not regret inviting you here today.” he nodded slightly and Virgil understood that it was a sign for him to leave. He wanted to stay longer but that would probably be too much for one day. He got up taking the folder from the table which quickly faded in the dark mist.

Slowly, Virgil backed out. He felt Roman’s eyes fixed at the back of his head. Virgil was so preoccupied with analyzing the whole visit that he didn’t even noticed when one of the sketches slipped out of the folder and fell on the ground. The doors closed behind him before he even managed to bid a goodbye.

Apathy sighed. The white sheet of paper was a stain on his room. Just like the red smudge was decorating the folder, the white sheet was destroying the crimson balance in the room. Roman got up and carefully picked up the sketch. He allowed himself to admire the soft brushes of the pencil and well-defined features of the character on the drawing. He didn’t recognize this man, but he felt his pain. The pain of the man on the sketch and the artist were the same.

The drawing fell back on the floor and Apathy sat on his chair, folding his fingers on the level of his chest. He knew that he let his regal facade crack and he wasn’t sure if he liked it. Maybe after all, the anxious one, was much more dangerous than Deceit.

---

Warm shades of summer sunset were coloring the floor with the long lines of gold and orange. The common room fell silent when Virgil finished his story. Story he couldn’t hold back anymore. Patton and Logan deserved the truth as much as he did. He decided to keep that away from Thomas for now though. Poor man would probably feel guilty of the situation.

“Let me sum everything up, Virgil, because I am quite confused.” said Logan, rubbing his temple. He sighed and slowly sat down on the couch nearby. “So what you’re saying is that before Apathy Roman, there was another Roman who used to be our friend.”

Virgil nodded, waiting for Logan to say more.

“That old Roman…” Logan continued. “Used to be Creativity which, back then, was a separate department of Thomas’ personality. At some point, we don’t know when, Creativite traits started mixing with Logic and I kind of inherited Creativity from Roman who disappeared. But neither Patton nor I had noticed that.”

“Exactly.”

“And we don’t have any memories of past Roman?” asked Logan, his eyes closed.

“It seems so.”

“And no matter how many times you show us video with past Roman, after turning it down, we still don’t remember him. Is that correct?”

“Yep.”

“Yet you do remember him.” stated Logan calmly.

“Perhaps because I caught him red-handed as he was curling up in the corner of his room.” explained Virgil, trying hard to swallow the emotions that gathered in his voice. It’s been months and yet he could still vividly remember Roman begging him not to tell the others. He still regretted listening to that princely fool.

“Allow me to point that it occurs to be a little bit ridiculous to me.” said Logan and opened his eyes. Virgil flushed with frustration and anger.

“Well, yes but that’s the truth!”

“We’re not saying that it’s not true, kiddo!” said Patton who was quiet until then.

“Yes, just because it seems… odd, doesn’t mean that we don’t believe you.” nodded Logan glancing at Patton. Virgil gulped. “However the behaviour you’re talking about is very disturbing. Hiding the truth behind us? If someone knows something about this, it is Deceit. I suggest we visit him immediately.” declared Logan, standing up. Patton instantly followed his example.

Biting his lips, Virgil looked between Logan and Patton. He still wasn’t sure if it was a good idea to tell them about Roman in the first place. It seemed so easy in his head. He dreamt that if he explained the situation, their memories would magically come back. Oh, how naive was he. He only caused more drama. What if it would annoy Roman? If he would see that as a betrayal? If it killed the last chance to get Roman back, Virgil would hate himself till the end of his life.

“What makes me confused is that, aside of side fading away without us noticing that, I don’t have any memories of Roman at all!” hummed Patton suddenly. “Not even one. As if someone has taken they away from me!” his breath hitched. “This is not normal.”

“Sit and calm down, Patton.” advised Logan.

“I can’t calm down when I completely forgot about one of my friends! I’m the heart, it’s my responsibility to remember everyone.” cried Patton angrily. “Now that Virgil told us the story, something in my heart tells me that indeed there was something like seperate Creativity but I still don’t remember Roman as a person! This is exactly the situation in which staying calm is not a proper reaction! Now, are you going to Deceit with me or should I do it alone?” he asked glaring at Logan. Virgil quietly moved closer to Patton.

Logan sighed. “I will go with you. This situation calls for an intervention.”

“Good.” said Pattonwith relief.

Deceit’s room was situated at the end of the hall, meaning that they had to pass by Apathy’s door. As always they were clearly closed. No one could come inside if he wasn’t invited. In that aspect, Apathy’s room reminded more of a fortress, than a royal palace. Virgil shivered and fixed his eyes on the floor. He shouldn’t be thinking about this right now.

“So who’s gonna knock?” asked Logan quietly as they stood in front of Deceit’s room. Yellow door, seemed to be covered with scales. And maybe they were, or maybe it was the fault of dimmed light, coming from the lamp above them.

In a haze of a moment, Virgil raised his hand and quietly knocked the door. The wood felt strange under his skin.

They didn’t have to wait for long because, few seconds later, the door opened showing Deceit himself. For a second, surprise was mirroring in his eyes before it was quickly covered with mocking smile and cocky face expression.

“Oh.” he said. “Hello, I did expect you.”

“Cut the crap, you had no idea we would come.” said Virgil, pushing Deceit away and stepping into the room. Logan and Patton sneaked behind him.

“Maybe I did not expect you to come precisely right now but surely I was expecting you to come.” hummed Deceit closing the door. His voice was rustling in their ears. Lies always sound sugary sweet, after all. “So what brought you here?” he asked, turning around to face them.

“Roman.” Logan’s voice was cold like a steel, sharp like a knife.

“Apathy?” asked Deceit innocently.

“But why, is it any other Roman you would like to tell us about?” Patton crossed arms on his chest and Deceit cursed, realizing that he got caught up in his own lie.

The corner of Logan’s lips twitched. He sat down on a chair. Deceit took a seat on the opposite side of the table, while Patton and Virgil stood behind Logan’s back.

“So tell us more, about this other Roman that you so carelessly implied.” encouraged Logan, leaning over the surface of the table.

Deceit hissed in response.

“We don’t have time for your games, Deceit.” Logan said coldly.

The dark side looked between Logan and Virgil and rested his back on the chair. He appeared much more relaxed than few seconds later.

“Why won’t you ask Virgil over here? I’m sure he remembers Roman as well as I do. Or even better.” shrugged Deceit, eyeing Virgil, who shivered under the pressure of the snake-like eye. Patton gently squeezed his hand.

“Virgil told us everything he knew!” clarified Patton. “What bugs me is that something wiped off the memories of old Roman that I used to have.”

“Not even one pun about bugs, Patton? I am truly disappointed…” Deceit shook his head, smiling lightly.

“Stick to the subject.” reminded Virgil.

“Oh, look at you Virge. Suddenly taking over the role of the prince in shining armour? How noble of you.” Deceit looked at his fingers. “Maybe that’s why Roman faded, huh? Maybe it was your fault from the beginning…” he suggested smugly.

“I won’t fall into your trap.” Virgil cut shortly. “I’m too familiar with your lies.”

“Oh, yes. Right. How could I forgot?” Deceit raised his eyes and for a moment all that could be seen were his eyes’ whites. “And why are you familiar with them?”

“I used to be a dark side.” admitted Virgil. It wasn’t something he was proud of but he had already told the other sides about that, so there was no point in hiding this. He might as well give Deceit what he wanted.

Deceit snapped his fingers and pointed at Virgil. “Exactly. That’s what we have in common. Originally we are the dark sides. Living in the shadows. Sneaking out when no one can see us. Doing all the ‘bad’ stuff.”

“Let’s go,” said Logan suddenly, getting up from the chair. “He clearly isn’t interested in telling us more.” He quickly turned around so that Deceit was facing his back.

“Wait!” Deceit stopped them. He couldn’t see the smile that for a short moment appeared on Logan’s face.

“Oh? So you do know something?” asked Logan, seemingly surprised. He rested his hand on the back of the chair.

“I know why you two don’t remember him.” Deceit looked at the wall. “I couldn’t do anything about Virgil’s memory since he has already been immune to my influence…” Virgil smirked slightly and Deceit took a short break to take a deep breath. “But when it comes to the two of you… Roman didn’t want you to remember him.”

Next part

if you like my boy Apathy you can consider buying me (and him) a cup of coffee

GENERAL TAGLIST: @depressed-alone @changeling-ash @dear-lover-dearest @ultimate-queen-of-fandoms2 @calmingthoughtsinyourhead @zo-geeky @fandomfreak-19 @thegnatnat @inha-led @tree4life25 @panic-at-theeverywhere @reallyanextrovertipromise @shit-happens-bitchachos @pastel-patton123 @pinkeasteregg @greymane902 @princeyssash @ilovemyspoopydad @musicphanpie-b @all-these-trees-stealing-mah-o2 @birosezz @winged-outlaw @anxious-fander-talian-bean @lizaelsparrow @moonstonefox12 @pastelnerd101 somecrappyclone mysticalstrawberryface @ninjago2020 donteatmyassghostie toriwithacamera moxiety--sanders101 confinesofpersonalknowledge xxladystarlightxx wheeitsvee a-very-optimistic-realist narniasfinestavengingsociopath thequeensqueer allycat31415 rileys-main-blog-spotroman-is-a-dramatic-prince virgil-my-diamond justanotherproblem faacethefacts beautifully-terribly logical-but-anxious queen-of-all-things-snuggly seabellart @generalfandomfabulousness lostin---translation

TAGLIST FOR APATHY: storytellerofuntoldlegends everphantom syndianites highfivegirl404 softprxnce timeywimeygalaxy flloof 221b-quote the-happy-landfill alkimara trash-king-arrie absentmindedproff talhaddelpla obsessedfangirlwithissues akiraaria fivecroftersjams xx-this-is-a-mess-xx sardonicsanders seabellart starryfirefliesbloggo thomas-must-get-to-sleep peacefulwriter ninjago2020 guardian-of-the-bears deathbyvenusftw caristars helloisthisusernametaken starry-eyed-haiku-dreamer fricksonsticks violetmcl derpsheep75 absentmindedproff neko-ereri romanasanders ruby717 starryfirefliesbloggo supreme-succ-overlord egotisticalfloof thomas-must-get-to-sleep the-better-bard syndianites justanotherpurplebutterfly ironwoman359 candiukas timeywimeygalaxy i-sold-my-soul-to-thefandom ssimplypatton accio-hufflepuff-power average-advanced black-out-wonder niluith-moonlady froggyfun27 thekaijucake theotherella that-one-invisible-chick hamiltrash-kimliza ocotopushugs highfivegirl404 hi-alex-the-ghost eleven-fire-slang-words asterias-confused-writings winged-outlaw brikcsandbones cinquefoilelove roman-is-a-gay fizzlefeen typical-torii hellomusicalnerdhere serious-ppl-wear-neckties thisisshien la-fandom-freak haikyuupaladin incorrectquotesfromlilgaybois violetmcl musicphanpie-b nothing-to-see-here-bud thekaijucake hellomusicalnerdhere @ocean-logan otaku-marijane potatogirl309 ghostilda @ako1209 grumpymoonbird pendragonqueen09 incredible-introvert bibbidi-bobbity-booyah nonsensical-aleks cabbagedynamite otaku-felicity-winchester sleep-who-idk-her thisbisreadytoyeet theshipqueenarrives arnyanimaltrash156 snowcherri shadow-walker-1201 kri-marie-b-the-nb ofwordsandroses kandhitota depressed--and--underdressed aoikitty fandom-random2405 cdragontogacotar everything-is-better-with-a-ph spacenerrrd hyperactive-lectiophile xxxbladeangelxxx ashiscringy unipugsat221b @milomeepit

#apathy #apathy! roman #dark!roman #roman sanders #the dark sides #roman's angst #roman sanders angst #sanders sides #sanders sides fic #sanders sides fanfiction

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beinglibertarian · 6 years

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Civilized Society: On the Death of Civility

One of the most influential questions I’ve ever encountered came not from a great philosopher or writer, nor from any inspiring conversation or work. Rather it came from a black comedy at the end of a rant about people throwing used tampons at each other and ripping on American Idol.

The movie (and I highly suggested giving it a watch) was called “God Bless America” and was a story of a man who decided to address the idiocy and (un)culture of the U.S. Of A.

The question: “Why have a civilization if we are no longer interested in being civilized?”

The weight of that question has stayed with me for many years. In all aspects of our lives, we see a continuous shift towards not just tolerating but accepting and rejoicing at the de-evolution of our moral and normative standards.

Before this gets misinterpreted, I am not attempting to start the “objective/subjective” morality debate. Rather I want to touch on this trend, the damage it has and will continue to do, and its effects on not just discourse but human interaction at large.

For the purposes of this piece, I feel that I need to define what I mean by “civilized” in this context.

I am referring here to a standard. A level of culture, of self-betterment, and of social advancement. I am referring to refinement, tact, principles, and all of the other things we have allowed to be eroded from our social norms. The very things that made us as advanced as we are as a civilization are the things that we are allowing to disappear, and it’s primarily due to either apathy, intellectual laziness, or the false belief that these cornerstones of our society are mere relics compared to our own decay.

Make Politics Civilized Again

When we talk about politics we usually end up discussing how terrible one politician is compared to another (which I’ll touch on later). Worse still is attempting to engage with people themselves. Moreso than our politicians, people in general need to be more civilized when discussing these topics.

God forbid one disagrees with someone these days! Outline the belief in an opposed idea and you will be beset by the tribalistic howler monkeys hungry for the flesh of the heretic.

To many, it has become as if the mere existence of opposition is equal to a personal affront or attack.

If one believes or is thinking something different than the hive they are implying that the other is somehow mentally deficient.

Everything gets couched in false dichotomies of us/them, yes/no, right/wrong, all when the world of political ideologies are far more convoluted and nuanced than that. I may disagree with someone’s views on a topic like gun control, but that doesn’t mean that that alone is justification for me to start screeching “Statist!” the second someone suggests some form of restrictions. Just the same I would hope that my opposition wouldn’t immediately jump into saying I support the deaths of children or some other absurdity simply because my stance remains unchanged after a school shooting.

The purpose of debate and civil discourse is to present and challenge ideas; not to pontificate and organize pissing contests.

I find it odd that people will demand to have their voices heard, then squander the opportunities to shift hearts and minds to their cause through empty vulgarities.

Despite millennia of evolution, we still allow ourselves to be put into the little boxes of our self-designed tribes. Even those of us who preach for individualism can be found guilty of this.

Not all is lost here though. I’ve found that much of it lies in approach. If one approaches a discussion from a good faith position with a true willingness to objectively debate and review ideas you will eventually find those on the opposition that are the same. Even the ones that aren’t can eventually be swung into a proper discussion with the right levels of tact and respect.

Obviously, there will be those that are simply there to screech, but that doesn’t grant a license to debase one’s self and do the same. Ideologies can and ought to be discussed on an ideological level. Any lower and one may as well not speak at all.

The Death of Nuance

By and large, this might be the biggest contributing factor to the issues spelled out above and below.

Even those that maintain the ability to discuss, debate and create tend to have lost this necessary skill. The ability to understand and look for the nuance in things.

We design things around simplicity rather than quality. Whether it’s our political arguments or our art, we are constantly aiming to accomplish some form of streamlining that in turn means the frills need to be trimmed.

Arguments are reduced to dichotomies and art reduced to the most easily packaged thing. We see this with our politics especially. We will ignore the nuances of arguments that have vastly different implications because they are outside of our tribes.

There is a massive difference between saying “I’m against the existence of unions” and saying “I’m against government empowerment of unions.” Supporters of unions will treat these as the same thing, even if the latter statement came from a supporter of unions themselves, or if the opposition is some form of left-libertarian. Logical consistency and honest review of the details of their opponent’s arguments are thrown aside for the sake of their tribe.

As I mentioned above, we try to reduce all things into “yes/no” categories and trap ourselves within them. This does far more harm than simply amputating the civilized tones political discourse once held. It also kills our ability to think outside of these dichotomies.

If what one has to say can’t be reduced to a tautology or syllogism then it isn’t worth hearing in the eyes of our generation of pundits and keyboard warriors. As a society, we have stopped our exploration of philosophy and the arts and moved into a phase of rearrangement. We no longer strive to make something wholly new, but simply remix and argue over what has already come before us.

Most of our media and ideas are not our own anymore. They are remixes of ideas and arguments from before.

While it is worth understanding and appreciating what came before us, we should strive to move past it. We should strive to improve rather than regurgitate the ideas that came before us. We should take the time to learn the subtleties of what we engage ourselves in. I brought it up in one of my podcast episodes where I talked about the human habit of overcomplication, yet I am equally astounded by the amounts of those complications and nuances that we add to our interests that we then summarily ignore.

We will spend all of this time debating philosophy, politics and economics, but we won’t take an equal amount of time to review the basis for the arguments our opponents use, or in some cases ourselves. Instead, we will defer to the basics of what we encounter and fight from there.

In art, we will accept a lower quality of music lyrically because we’ve reduced our listening experience to the beat. We examine our world from generalizations rather than attempting to view things as a whole. We discard the whole once we’ve decided what is in front of us. There are some out there reading this that likely saw the repetition of the word “we” and got their backs up. It should be easily understood that the usage of the word here is in a generalized form and thus should receive no contention from those this critique doesn’t apply to. The fact that this likely needs to be explained further illustrates my point.

“It’s Art”

It is saddening when people say this in defense of baseless vulgarity or unoriginal pieces of “art.”

Through the postmodernist lens, we’ve come to accept anything as art so long as it was made in expression of whatever the “artist” whips up as a reason after the fact.

While some pieces can indeed be interesting, on the whole, much of the talent the art world use to hold has been replaced with expression for the sake of expression; no actual skill required. We’ve turned the study of the aesthetic into a scatological field.

The truest shame of this is the amount of true talent that gets passed over in place of these works of “art.” The amount of technical skill and artistic vision that likely went into your phone’s background or those random “cool art” Facebook page posts you’ve seen massively outweighs anything I’ve seen from the “performance art” crowd in recent years.

Outside of the regular talentless hacks that throw the term “avant-garde” around like they actually know what it means, there’s the overpackaged side of this decline as well.

Now it needs to be stated first: I understand that most television, movies, and pop hits aren’t designed to be masterwork expressions of the craft. They’re designed to be popular. The problem is twofold here.

First, we are a very systematic species. We’ve devoted thousands of man hours and resources into the study of what makes certain music or shows popular and reduced these fields to a science rather than the art it ought to be.

Not every TV show needs to be some high-level journey of wonderment, but at least they could stop redoing the Three’s Company formula every time they need a new hit. Even some of the better works that have come out in recent years like Game of Thrones or Breaking Bad, while refreshing, ended up doing little more than creating a new system for companies to flood the market with.

With every repetition of the model, it becomes weaker and more deformed.

Pop music has always suffered this, but the emphasis on it has eroded the usefulness of the media form.

Even older pop hits still had to reach a certain level of quality before we would begin to eat it up. Instead of keeping up with that trend, we’re fed things that are scientifically designed to be appealing; rather than being appealing on its own artistic merits.

Luckily there are definitely acts out there that bring that higher level of quality, but sadly they simply aren’t as big or on the same level of reach as the cookie-cutter ensembles that I’m referring to.

I’m not suggesting we need to go back to some idyllic civilized high society that only listens to classical and jazz (though I wouldn’t really oppose that either), but rather that we pay more attention to the art we consume and demand more than a catchy tune with an appropriate level of compression.

The Pursuit of Knowledge

As of the beginning of this sentence, this article was already at 1795 words. For most of those that read web articles, I’m already over the average attention span by about 1000 words.

Even in libertarian circles, there are tons of people that will fight you to the death on an economic or philosophical concept, yet they’ve never read the source material these ideas came from.

They’ll have gotten their arguments from watching others debate online or by parroting whichever YouTuber they happen to follow.

They’ll attack commies for their ideological views, but have never picked up a copy of anything by Proudhon, Marx, or Kropotkin. This isn’t a libertarian issue alone though as those same commies are just as likely to have never read the material either.

We’ve bred a social order that values the products of knowledge, but not it’s acquisition. Sure, we push our youth to run off and get their degrees, but we do that for the sake of them gaining better employment rather than to actually learn.

Shows like “Are you smarter than a 5th grader” are only possible in a society where we treat the civilized pursuit of knowledge as a means rather than an end in and of itself.

Even when we do pursue knowledge, we aim for summaries. In order to stand for something one first needs the legs that true knowledge grants you. After reading a single Wikipedia article or listicle people consider themselves educated enough to discuss the finer points of Spinoza. And that’s if they even read non-fiction to begin with.

The average person reportedly reads twelve books per year, though this is largely believed to be inflated with the actual average closer to four. This is out of the nearly one million books published every year. Obviously, it would be physically impossible to read that much per year, but even when we do read the quality is suspect.

Look at the explosion of YA novels. Most of it is average, slightly above dime store level tropes repackaged in slightly different arrangements. These sell millions of copies and get turned into blockbuster movies.

Even “Adult” (no, not that kind) novels tend to follow the same path of repetitive swill. The bulk of the variety ends up coming from the types of characters rather than the plot itself, or the authors will predictably try to over M. Night Shyamalan their works with more twists than a 50‘s sock hop.

All of this may sound like some form of intellectual elitism, but rather it is a call for standards. We can enjoy the odd bit of trite every once in a while (one of my favorite films is still “The Room”), however, we cannot sustain ourselves on it.

Civilization and culture around the world has been built on the backs of the thinkers and the dreamers. If we only feed our brains garbage then we will produce the same. To make society more civilized we need to start by making ourselves more informed and demand of others and ourselves the higher standards that would grant us.

Psuedos: A Cancer on Culture

In listing all of this I feel it is important to list the worst offenders of those that erode all that is civilized: Psuedo-intellectuals.

These are the types that list their IQ and pedigree within the first 5 facts you learn about them. They learned all they need to know about being successful from reading 7 habits of successful people and a handful of Malcolm Gladwell books. They took not one, but two CrossFit classes and are ready to become personal trainers and dietitians. They are plebs in Armani.

The reason I think they are contributing to the uncivilized trend that we have been experiencing is that they steal the limelight from real thinkers in the name of egotistical desire.

They speak less for the purposes of sharing any real knowledge they might, by chance, have gathered, but solely to express that they are the ones that know it. They are not agents of enlightenment, but rather of sophistry.

They make compelling arguments completely devoid of any nuance that could show true thought behind their ideas, and become excessively defensive should their supposed superiority be questioned.

They’re willing to show how civilized they are in a discussion right up until any of their ideas are challenged. In their eyes, to challenge them is to say they are wrong which is tantamount to blasphemy.

Their involvement in a conversation sullies it, which in turn turns people away from engaging in the material at all.

Worst still, it can lead to people quietly settling into their little tribes on the topic.

A true thinker should want people to engage in their material. Critiques help people hone their ideas, add to their knowledge base, and offer perspectives that may previously have been unconsidered. A Psuedo-intellectual wants none of that.

The Psuedo just wants to be right from the start, and acknowledged for it. Most painfully, they are likely to self-victimize. They will claim they argue purely from facts and reasoning, but they will also be offended on a personal level if they are sufficiently challenged.

Most commonly this results in pedantic commentary, condescending remarks and stances, and a transition of the discussion from the topic at hand to an emptier game of linguistics. If one dares stoop to their level they’ll immediately decry that they’re being attacked and turn the discussion towards tone and words to gain some level of superiority out of the exchange.

This erodes not only civilized and intellectually honest discussion, but also the foundations of knowledge in the public sphere. Discussion gets driven not by the wisest voices, but rather the loudest.

I think the best example of this committed to film was in the movie “Good Will Hunting.” In the famous bar scene where the pretentious grad student attempts to browbeat Ben Afflick’s character solely for the purposes of browbeating him and making a spectacle. Matt Damon’s character (Will) comes forward and begins to pick him apart for the ideas stolen from entry-level books, generic stances, and walks him through what his academic and general future will encompass being that way.

He quotes the authors he’s stealing from (and even the damn page number), and generally summarizes all of the issues with this breed of person; all through a thick Boston accent.

I highlight this scene because it perfectly encapsulates what I’m referring to. Unfettered pedantry by those that overvalue their own knowledge and capabilities.

Now, I’m not lacking in self-awareness to the degree to not notice that one might think the same of me for writing such a lengthy piece as this attacking all of these aspects of discussion and society as if I am somehow above it all.

I am the first to acknowledge if and when I slip up on the things listed here, and truly without pretense welcome it when others notice so that I can course correct and improve. Noticing these traits and taking the time to improve upon them is what separates us from those that are simply in it to put on a show. True learning and development start with a real hunger for the knowledge, and a humble willingness to be wrong.

Civilized Office Starts With Civility

Look at the news. Just look at it and weep. People have always gotten heated and thrown mud in the political arena, but it had generally been understood that there are levels to which one simply does not stoop.

As time progresses that notion has been eroded.

Even during the infamous Watergate fiasco, we could still see a level of civility in the commentary and discussions on Nixon’s actions, and what should follow. I doubt that reporters from most MSM outlets could sit down through an interview with Trump and remain as civilized yet to the point as Frost could.

Even amongst the general public, we’ve seen this shift. After Clinton and that little blue dress, the respect for the presidency as an office plummeted as seen with the open hostility towards Bush, the baseless attacks against Obama (which tended to ignore the large list of factual reasons to criticize him), and the circus around this current presidency.

I welcome the reduction in the worship of the office as much as the next libertarian, however, I cannot support the lack of civilized discourse regarding it.

One doesn’t need to pretend these politicians are good people (generally they aren’t), but debasing one’s self for the sake of attacking them is unnecessary and pointlessly negative as well.

Civilized discourse is built around maintaining a level of decorum and mustering enough respect to effectively and fairly engage an opponent. As we remove our respect and decorum we also erode our expectations.

You don’t get a Trump (or a Hillary, or Bernie) in office if you actually demand a higher quality from these offices. While one may be on the anarchist side and against the existence of the offices themselves, that doesn’t mean we should treat the offices so poorly as to turn them into a joke. When we do that we don’t reduce the power these offices currently hold; we only reduce the quality of those who hold them.

Put another way, one can question the legitimacy of these offices and want them abolished, but simply treating them sloppily only results in lower quality people hold these positions of power, making them that much more dangerous. Conflating that these offices ought to be removed or reduced with the idea that they hold no power is a root cause of the continuous degrade in the quality of people that hold them.

Conclusion

This also needs to be said: I’m not dictating that we need to make these changes by force. That’s an important detail that is likely to be missed by some on first glance.

Cultural direction works the same as markets in the sense that changes only happen three ways. They happen by environmental factors (abundance of a resource in one area, natural disaster, etc), by the force of an interloper (such as the government), or by the sum of the actions of the individuals of society.

The environmental influence on civilized societies are mostly immutable (note: mostly), and, while there are those that attempt to enforce their cultural views via force and law (From the Puritans of old to the archetypical SJWs of today) I am attempting neither.

I write this in an attempt to get people on a different track and to change how the sum of our culture will look. Between these three factors, I personally will always bet on the individual as being the greatest genesis of change. It’s the individual I seek to showcase this to, and to engage. At the very least I hope this sparks a discussion and consideration of the points herein.

The Dalai Lama had a book titled “How to see yourself as you really are” that I think is apt to mention here. The book discusses the concept of self-knowledge, and removing the biases that attribute to both false negative and false positive interpretations of yourself.

The goal of the exercises and philosophy presented is to direct the reader towards being able to see the reality of themselves, and act accordingly rather than from empty pretenses they might have of themselves.

While I most definitely am nowhere near his levels of understanding or wisdom, my intentions here are the same.

It is my hope that those that read this will aim for more civilized heights than they had before, and will look for opportunities to improve the way we function.

I hope that you will self-reflect and take something away from all of this. It is my hope that we can answer the question of whether to have a civilization anymore with a resounding yes, but that will only be possible if we as individuals are willing to fulfill our parts.

* Killian Hobbs is a writer for Think Liberty.

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