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oumakokichi · 7 years

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What do you think Ouma would have been like if he survived to the end of the game? Or what about just outside of the game, like in an au where this game didn't happen? (I'm sorry I just love his character and I want the next game(?) that says no one ever died and they're all living happily)

There’s no need to apologize! Ireally love these particular questions, and it’s not exactly a secret that Oumais my favorite DR character—I would honestly have loved to see him survive,moreso with what an important, vital character he was to the whole game evenafter his death. The fact that even after dying, Ouma was essentially “present”at both the Chapter 5 and Chapter 6 trials (first because of the Exisal planwith Momota, then because of all the clues, hints, and mysteries surroundinghim that led to them finding out so much of the truth) has always struck me asvery, very interesting. And he had so much potential as a survivor, especiallywith his cover blown and his plans against the mastermind made clear.

I’ve actually talked a littlebit about my ideas on this before, in a post here a while back! And some peoplelike @klepotmaniac and @ouma–kokichis have also expanded on the idea and beeninterested in it! I still feel like there was real potential to take the Exisalplan in Chapter 5 and take it in another direction entirely. It was stillincredibly amazing with how well done it was in-game, of course, but I feellike there was definitely a very noticeable opening there where Ouma couldactually have been one of the survivors.

The most interesting thing, ofcourse, is that Ouma would have lived through that event without wanting to. Heclearly was very willing to die in Chapter 5. His death was entirely avoidable,and if he’d wanted to throw Maki and Momota to the wolves and just hole himselfup in the Exisal to be malicious, he easily could have. Instead, he chosewillingly to give the antidote to Momota instead, have Momota be the one tocarry out the plan in the Exisal, and went completely willingly to his deathunder the press, all because he could strike back at the mastermind. And Maki,who did honestly, truly intend to kill him, didn’t have to be executed as aculprit.

I feel like if Momota hadrealized what Ouma was trying to do with the antidote ahead of time and refusedto drink it, things could’ve gotten really interesting. Because Momota wouldn’twant to die from the poison and therefore make Maki into a killer, but he alsorealized that his time was limited no matter what he did. Even without thepoison, his sickness was just about ready to kill him, as is clear from how hedies only midway through his own execution later on.

And Momota is such a shounenprotag at heart: if there’s a way to avoid the biggest number of sacrificespossible, he’ll take it. He wants to fight people, but he doesn’t want them todie. Had he realized exactly what Ouma was trying to pull, and realized thefact that there was no need for Ouma to die, I think it’s entirely possible hewould’ve thrown Ouma’s plans off somewhat by just refusing to drink theantidote. If that were to happen, both of them would die, Maki would beexecuted for a double-murder just like Korekiyo, and nothing about the killinggame would change at all.

So very bitterly andreluctantly, I think Ouma would spell out his whole plan about trying to usethe press to discover the cause of death and identity of the victim/culprit,hoping that by making it super clear he could get Momota to go along with it.And the plan is brilliant, of course, but it would still require one of thembeing a victim and the other being a culprit, except for one thing: contrary toOuma’s expectations, it’d be perfectly possible for Momota to kill himselffirst, and then for Ouma to disguise the state of the body, cause of death,etc. using the press afterwards.

In a very Sakura-like twist fromdr1 where Momota is both the culprit and the victim of his own murder, there’dbe two lives saved rather than one.And the whole plan with the Exisal, and confusing Monokuma, would still work.The Exisal would still protect Ouma from Maki trying to kill him (because shewould, undeniably want to kill him, blaming him for Momota’s death).

And no matter how tired he wasand how ready he to die he was after all the shit he’d gone through in thekilling game, I don’t think Ouma would have ultimately been able to convinceMomota out of it. If it were an all-or-nothing situation where they were goingto keep being stubborn, and considering how little time they had before theeffects of the bomb wore off and the cameras came back, I think Ouma would havehad no choice but to compromise. Momota and Ouma lay out a plan for Momota tokill himself in the machinery bay first, Ouma drinks the antidote for real thistime so he’s no longer being slowly poisoned to death, and after the deed isdone, Ouma disguises the truth about the body with the press.

With Ouma in the Exisal insteadof Momota, the whole catbox plan regarding the victim’s identity probably would’vebeen taken even further than before. The things Ouma managed to convey just byhaving Momota act them out with a script he provided, Ouma himself would beable to perform a million times more convincingly—and that’s saying something,since Momota was already a pretty damn convincing actor. Meanwhile, littletip-offs and slip-ups in the trial would’ve caught his notice, probably,including things about the Remnants of Despair, Junko, the whole “hope vs.despair” language the others were now talking in, etc.

But what Momota knew in Chapter5, Ouma clearly knew too, because the hints he left behind were so obvious, andno matter how badly he wanted to strike back at the mastermind, he was neverwilling to bet anyone else’s lives to do it, because lives are so important tohim. They both knew Saihara would ultimately reach the truth of the matter, ifgiven enough time. And so Saihara, having to disregard all his previousmisconceptions, and having to deal with Maki still convinced and unshakable inher belief that Ouma is the culprit, would manage to reach the truth that Oumais the one in the Exisal but didn’t kill Momota at all, and that Momota killedhimself and let his body be crushed after death precisely because the detailswould be closed up into a catbox.

If Ouma had truly wanted toeven in-game, much less in this AU idea I’m discussing, he could’ve made theChapter 5 trial into a real catbox. There was absolutely no reason for him totell Momota to leave the clues he did, including his shirt in the toilet, thecamcorder video of “Momota” being killed under the press, or Momota’s jacketsleeve poking out from under the press—unless he definitely did not want to risk everyone’s lives forreal, and he knew that Saihara wouldreach the truth once he had those clues in hand.

And if he were a survivor, he’dknow it too. If Saihara were able to reach the truth in spite of everything,and particularly in spite of what a convincing villain routine Ouma had beenrunning ever since Chapter 4, I think even Ouma would come out of that Exisal.After a whole trial of a convincing, super dramatic act full of questions like “Whoam I?” and “Who are you guys gonna vote for?”, at the very end I think Ouma woulddecide to “open the catbox.”

And rather than pulling anyfurther acts or facades or routines, I think he’d just be blank. Shaky, from nearly being poisoned to death before, andtired, and further traumatized by Momota having died in front of him. Therewouldn’t be any further need for his usual acts and routines, because Saiharaalready reached the truth of his plans to confront the ringleader, and alreadyknows now that Ouma himself is not the ringleader. And I think while stilllooking very blank and neutral, Ouma would tell them all the entire truth ofwhat happened in the machinery bay.

There would be so muchpotential for his inclusion into the group at this point. I’ve thought about ita lot. While it’s certainly true that Ouma did things, horrible things, inorder to progress with his plans this far, it’s also true that the whole groupwould’ve died without his help in previous cases. And rather than realizingthat he was trying to literally stop the killing game once and for all, it’strue that the entire group reacted against him, and that Maki in particularwent off right into the real ringleader’s plans and tried to torture and killOuma to death despite promising not to try anything of the sort in front ofthem all.

There were definitely mistakeson both sides, and Ouma’s desperation to end the game and disgust at the ideaof killing and murder is precisely the reason he was so willing to try and lethimself die under that press. But since he’s now essentially living on forMomota’s sake, because it’s a sacrifice Momota was willing to make for thewhole group, now he has to stick around, and he hardly even feels like it,because he already had to compromise his morals and dirty his hands.

But the truth Saihara wouldhave reached in this scenario isn’t just that Ouma wasn’t the culprit of that particular case, or the ringleader—it’sthat despite Ouma’s act, and all his claims, he’s not evil. He’s not irredeemable.

With Ouma on their side, theChapter 6 investigation would have been so much fun. The group would still havebeen reacting to having him actually included as one of their number, ratherthan just a figure to be reviled. Maki, while still probably unable to bringherself to like or trust Ouma entirely, wouldn’t have been able to help feelingsomewhat guilty, I think, considering it’s her own actions, not Ouma’s, thatwound up getting Momota killed—and because she almost got Ouma killed too, eventhough he was never the ringleader or the leader of the Remnants of Despair atall.

The trial with Tsumugi wouldhave been an absolute blast. I’vepointed out that there are some pretty blatant contradictions in some of thelies Tsumugi tells them all, particularly when she starts aiming for thingslike their romantic feelings or emotions, and when she brings up “every singledevelopment being part of her scenario” (because things like Momota’s illnessclearly contradict this).

Even though the rest of thecharacters were far too traumatized and shocked by these realizations to noticewhere it was obvious that she was lying, I feel pretty sure that Ouma wouldhave noticed. And after quite a while of being blank and unsure how exactly toproceed within a group that he had felt isolated from for so long, I think he’dreally find himself slipping back into the role he does best, and some of hismost fun sprites and dramatic routines would’ve come back in the Chapter 6trial.

No matter how much Tsumugiwanted to make things into a real catbox of her own in Chapter 6, with all thecharacters unable to prove or disprove anything about her fictional scenarios,Ouma is very skilled at pinpointing other’s lies, precisely because he deals inlies himself. There would’ve been so much potential for him to really shake herarguments in Chapter 6, and I’m kind of sad that we’ll never get to see itoutside of some potential fanart or fanfictions.

Chapter 6 features so muchabout the characters being led to believe that they were not necessarily thebest people before entering the killing game. It’s impossible for them to knowthe truth about themselves one way or the other: everything, from their memoriesto their backstories to their talents, is called into question, and they haveto live with knowing that it’s incredibly likely that they signed themselves upfor this kind of game. And still, they decide to embrace the identities theyhave within the game. Even if they’re just fiction, even if their identitiesare “lies,” they’re real to them, precisely because of what they’ve been through.

But so much about Ouma is thatby knowing ages before the rest of them that these things are lies, he has nosense of identity. The reason he calls into question things like “common sense”and “reality” within his FTEs, even the very early ones with Kaede, is becauseOuma knows that nothing is trustworthy in this game. Not his talent, not hismemories, and not the people around him. So much about his prison mode ending,too, is about trying to “discover” himself and figure out who he really is ormight become—and I would have loved to see this explored with him as asurvivor.

If most of the rest of the gamehad proceeded the same, and they had all decided to abstain from voting inorder to flip a giant middle finger to the killing game and the audience atlarge, then I could see Ouma winding up as a survivor exactly the same asSaihara, Maki, and Himiko do. And it would have been very rewarding, in a way,to see him get the chance to see the hole in the dome representing the way tothe outside world, and realize that he had in fact accomplished some of what heset out to do.

If there’s a character arc I’ma sucker for, it’s atonement. Even if there are things that a character can’tever be forgiven for, even if they’ve done awful things and can’t forgivethemselves, I honestly enjoy characters who try to atone anyway, precisely becausethey’ll never be forgiven, but they can at least lessen their guilt somewhat.And I think Ouma would fit into this kind of trope quite well as a survivor—andI think that even if he wasn’t sure of “who” he was or what would be on theother side of that dome awaiting them, with the killing game over once and forall, I think he’d honestly, finally be able to start trusting Saihara and theothers as a group.

The end of ndrv3 deals so much “lies”becoming “truths,” and therefore being accepted as reality no matter what otherpeople or the real world might tell you. This motif is the “answer” Saihara andthe others find in canon, in response to Tsumugi’s “unshakable truth” that theyare fiction, and it’s the reason they’re able to reach an answer for themselvesthat had nothing to do with either hope or despair. And it’s Ouma who wassuggesting this kind of answer long before any of the rest of them. I really,truly would love to see the rest of the survivors, and Saihara in particular,kind of realizing that fact about Ouma.

Anyway, this has gotten prettylong so I’ll stop, but it’s an AU idea I love to think about! I’m really gladyou both asked, and I hope I was able to share some of my thoughts on the matter!

#ndrv3 #drv3 #new danganronpa v3 #kokichi ouma #ouma kokichi #ndrv3 spoilers //#my meta #okay to reblog #i have way too many au ideas but this is still one of my favorite ones #mostly because i feel like it would work quite well with actual canon material #real pidge #arcpitia

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oumakokichi · 7 years

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Question why did Ouma decide that getting Iruma killed was the most logical option instead of like going to the group and saying "Hey. So I think Iruma might be trying to kill me" It would be a way where if a body showed up after that everyone would automatically suspect Iruma? I dunno it's just that if I were Ouma that's what I would do.

EDIT: Oops, I forgot that I was going to combine these two questions because they address the same thing! I went back and added the second question now!

I’ve talked a little bit about this too before here, butbasically it all comes down to one of the primary themes among the ndrv3characters: that because of the situation they’re all in, absolutely 100%trusting or opening up to any of them is impossible.

Ouma ultimately didn’t try telling anyone about Miu’s plan or askingfor any help because he was convinced the only person he could trust washimself. Even though there was undeniably a part of him that wished he reallycould just trust people and buy into the whole “power of friendship”routine that those like Momota and Kaede particularly liked, he was far toocynical to actually do so. And he’s not the only one.

Lack of trust, real trust, is ahuge motif in ndrv3, precisely because it ties in with the themes of lying anddeception so well.

Amami’sinability to trust either the rest of the group after having just met them, oreven himself because he remembers nothing about leaving the note to himself orhis talent, leads him to feel like he’s got no one he can tell about his planto stop the mastermind—and ultimately, it gets him killed. Had he been able totell the rest of the group about the additional information he had or his planto expose the mastermind, he would never have died so tragically.

Kaede,who specifically auditioned for the game asking to be a character who could “trustother people” and “lead them,” and who wanted this kind of role specificallybecause she was so cynical pre-game, truly couldn’t live up to her own desireuntil right before she was executed.Despite talking so much about working together with others and trusting others,Kaede couldn’t bring herself to tell anyone, not even Saihara who she wasworking very closely together with, about her plan to try and kill themastermind with the steel ball trap. And if she had talked about and disclosedthose plans, things could have gone drastically differently. She only came tothe realization of how to trust Saihara, really,fully trust, right before she died, and that’s exactly what’s so sad about hersacrifice.

Miuherself only decided to kill specifically because she was not a trusting person. Despite how useful her talent was (likereally, ridiculously overpowered) and how Ouma’s plans of taking down theExisals and the mastermind actually had a really good shot at working, Miucouldn’t trust in those plans. And she couldn’t, and wouldn’t, trust the rest of the group. She was convinced betrayalwould happen before the plans even began, and that’s what helped her justifythe idea that it was okay to murder and risk a school trial. Because she couldn’ttrust them, she decided it was okay to risk the rest of the group’s lives toget out.

There’splenty of other characters I could mention, but my general point is that Oumawas exactly the same. He was smart, brilliant really, and he had a millionplans in motion. But the tragedy of his character is that because of thekilling game, and the insidious paranoia that couldn’t help but spreadeverywhere because of it, he really couldn’t fully trust anyone but himself forthe entirety of the game.

Oncehe knew for a fact that Miu had already made up her mind to kill, it didn’tbecome an issue where he thought it would stop even if he tried telling therest of the group about it. Even if he told the group about it, they wouldn’tnecessarily believe him if it were just her word over his. He’s a known liar,after all.

Andeven if they did believe him and if he stopped her VR world plan, the factwouldn’t change that Miu had already made up her mind to kill once, and thatshe could very well turn on the group and try and kill again at some othertime. Once he had to count her as a threat to the entire group’s wellbeing, hecouldn’t bring himself to stop thinking of her as a threat, because in decidingshe was willing to take that risk and kill everyone, he wasn’t willing to justtrust that she’d behave and not do it again even if he talked about it.

Andthe saddest part is that I do think talking about it, and really opening up toand trying to trust others would have helped. Ndrv3 is a series that’s muchmore highly reminiscent of Umineko, but there are these little bits and piecesparticularly that have to do with paranoia and distrust that remind me ofHigurashi instead. And one repeating motif in Higurashi is the idea thathorrible, tragic situations all start with the idea that you are completelyalone and can’t trust anyone else. “Talk to your friends” is a repeated linethroughout the entire series, and in ndrv3 there’s very much this feeling thatso much could have been avoided if a real sense of trust and openness had beenencouraged among the group from the beginning.

Butbecause the killing game itself is a situation that won’t allow for thesethings, and because the murders kept happening, no one wanted to trust anyoneor open up to anyone. Even people who said they did were always hidingsomething. Even Momota, who arguably was the one with the most faith and themost trust out of anyone in the whole game, still kept things very close to thechest in Chapter 5, and came to the realization that some deception and lieswere necessary in order to play the game realistically and get back at themastermind. Momota even hid his physical condition from the entire group for most of the game after talking so much about trusting others, and this is something he also gets called out on by the narrative.

Idefinitely agree with you anon, that talking about the situation before itarises and trying to seek help from others is the best way to handle not onlythis kind of situation but almost anysituation. We all like to think that if something horrible were about to occur,we’d go ask other people for help and that they’d reach out in turn and give usthat help. But sometimes, things are a little harder in an actual crisis. Wedon’t always act the way that we’d like, and we’re not always the best versionsof ourselves. If I were in a situation where people around me were gettingbrutally murdered and the only way to survive was by getting someone elsekilled in a school trial…I can honestly say I’m not really sure I’d behave themost rationally or be at my best.

Tryingto stop Miu for good would’ve required Ouma truly putting his cynicism andparanoia aside and trying to talk to her openly and honestly about everything.And that would’ve required him being 100% certain that she wasn’t themastermind, or that even if she wasn’t the mastermind, that she still wouldn’tjust turn around and stab him in the back later. And he absolutely couldn’tbring himself to do that, because he already knew that she’d made up her mindto kill once.

What’smore, Miu herself probably wouldn’t have believed him. Even if he reached outto her, nothing would change if she didn’t think he was trustworthy—and let’sbe real, no one would have thought hewas trustworthy that far into the game, even if he did put his whole act asidefor once and tell her about absolutely everything. She wasn’t a trusting person,and she was scared. And as long as she had that fear and that desperation toget out, it’s likely she wouldn’t listen to anything he had to say.

Thatitself is really, really tragic, and it’s one reason Chapter 4 is this hugepainful web of things that were avoidable but also “weren’t,” because thecharacters themselves had already made up their minds, that this is just theway things had to be.

#ndrv3 #drv3 #new danganronpa v3 #kokichi ouma #miu iruma #ndrv3 spoilers //#my meta #okay to reblog #i hope i expressed myself well in this one!#it's a theme that's really central to ndrv3 but i haven't seen a lot of people quite realizing yet #anonymous #arcpitia

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