#ellinoamerikana blogging

[anghraine]

kazaera replied to this post:

It's kind of bonkers how the Byzantine empire is just... absent... from so many pop culture historical narratives. Starting from "The Roman Empire fell in the 5th century CE" and moving on from there.

It truly is. I know I'm hardly objective, but it's very deeply frustrating to me as someone who has always found the Byzantine Empire's history very compelling (how many "in the medieval era, Europe x" takes can account for the existence of Irene of Athens or, idk, Constantinople???) and as the grandchild of a living Greek woman.

My conspiracy theory is that a lot of different people feel like they are in some way the "true" heirs to ancient Greece and ancient Rome, directly or indirectly, and the ongoing existence of a Greek-speaking Roman empire with a large population of Greek people and a remarkable capital city poses an intrinsic challenge to that belief. So the typical approach is either to downplay their authenticity as Greeks or Romans, or just completely ignore their existence, and it creates a cycle in which ignoring them becomes genuine ignorance of almost everything about them and their history (though some people do seem actively hostile or existentially threatened, like the guy who kickstarted this whole thing).

I remember reading someone's aside that people talking about Greek beliefs and religion are almost never talking about the Greek Orthodox church that most living Greeks belong to. It seems like modern Greeks can only ever be a) stand-ins for ancient Greeks who've done basically nothing since the Roman conquest or b) not authentically Greek, either because of ethnic purity logic (which has an extremely nasty history that includes Nazi atrocities but also, like, weird arguments about how Greece shouldn't be in the EU) or an insistence on cultural discontinuity that can justify how proprietary non-Greeks can be about ancient Greek artifacts and culture. And this is extended in odd ways to the Byzantines, except when people want to act like the fall of Constantinople was some unprecedented collective European tragedy lala what Fourth Crusade.

It's also strange to me because ... I study early modern literature, and I was required to read ancient Greek and Roman sources because they're so critically important to the western European concept of "the Renaissance" and the fall of Constantinople and arrival of Byzantine refugees in western Europe with what they could bring with them benefited western Europe in that respect. But the Renaissance is common knowledge and hugely romanticized by everyone from left-wing post-modern New Historicists to far-right white supremacists, while the thousand+ years of the Byzantine Empire is often this pop culture afterthought if that.

#this devolved into the frothing rant i was going to revise but. whatever. #and i deleted several tangents at least! #kazaera #respuestas #byzantium blogging #ellinoamerikana blogging #history blogging #renaissance blogging #medieval blogging #long post #anghraine rants

[anghraine]

I was searching on a new computer for the name of a Greek Orthodox church my family used to point out to me, and a bunch of popular "related questions" popped up with

I'm agnostic but just thought "...holy mother of God"

#maybe if people's concept of 'greek religion' extended being mythology standom this would be less mysterious! #i mean. when is 'the greeks believed that...' ever about the very long history of the orthodox church in greek culture #(i am not even culturally orthodox! just annoyed at the reduction of all of greek history and culture to mythology standom) #anghraine babbles #ellinoamerikana blogging #cw religion #cw christianity

[anghraine]

I was reading up on some stuff related to the Parthenon marbles and now it's INCANDESCENT RAGE hour

#anghraine rants #ellinoamerikana blogging #etc etc

[anghraine]

I know it's common for US Americans not to speak our ancestors' languages for various reasons, but having to explain why I can't speak Greek to my 12-y-o cousin was still a very melancholic experience, honestly.

#not my cousin on the greek side—he just vaguely figured i could and then was 'oh okay' when i couldn't #meanwhile i was just sort of staring blankly ahead into the abyss of diaspora feelings #:( #anghraine babbles #ellinoamerikana blogging #linguistic stuff #us american blogging

[anghraine]

Re: Gondor being Byzantine in inspiration according to Tolkien and some people thinking of it as Ottoman: reading the books my mental image was very close to the "medieval" kingdom of Armenia (I have had a fascination for years with the city of Ani), and while I get now that it wasn't what Tolkien intended, I'd really love to see, in some ideal world, a Gondor represented as having a similar look and feel.

Honestly, I don't think there's any problem with that! The Ottoman thing bothers me when people say that Tolkien acknowledged Ottoman influence, in reference to things like Tolkien's description of Minas Tirith as "Byzantine City"—conquest by the Ottomans doesn't mean that Byzantine == Ottoman. I'm not unbiased, though; my grandmother is Greek and I resent the pop culture treatment (or lack thereof) of post-Roman conquest Greek-speaking cultures, esp with regard to the absence of the Byzantine Empire in Medieval Europe Discourse.

In any case, Tolkien had other influences for Gondor, too—mainly Italy + the western Roman Empire and ancient Egypt, but I think it's very cool to draw influences from other places, especially ones that aren't often represented. He refers vaguely a few times to Spanish influencing LOTR, for instance, and while we don't know the details, I think that could be interesting, too, especially considering the different populations within Gondor's borders. And I think it's valid to go further afield, too, as feels applicable. Even going with strict fidelity, the only thing he absolutely rejected was Nordic Gondor, so IMO you're good.

#thatscarletflycatcher #respuestas #ondonórë blogging #anghraine babbles #byzantine gondor #but also lots of gondors! i like that best bc i already have byzantine feelings and gondor feelings #and they collide so nicely! but some people lean more towards the egyptian or italian influences #or other stuff altogether #as long as it's not northern european then i think it can be done well without pinging the UGH WRONG WRONG WRONG buttons #anghraine's meta #ellinoamerikana blogging

[anghraine]

I missed my usual daily cycle of crafting in GW2 today and am absurdly regretful (I like my rituals!).

On the other hand, it happened because I was busy writing my unhinged rant/conspiracy theory about why "the Greeks believed X" or "the Greeks said/did A" or "medieval Europe was..." or "medieval cities were N" virtually never accounts for Byzantine Greeks, or indeed, for the entire existence of Constantinople and the Byzantine Empire during the medieval era.

Not posting it until I dilute it down to something readable, but I don't terribly regret writing it, so.

#i ... have quite literally never seen 'the greeks xyz' ever refer to byzantine greeks #i know the existence of the byzantine empire is inconvenient to about twelve different narratives but #¯\_(ツ)_/¯ #anghraine babbles #byzantium blogging #ellinoamerikana blogging #anghraine's gaming #ascalonian grudgeblog #rare breed of attack unicorn #anghraine rants

[anghraine]

TL;DR version of my last post: I'm having a lot of fun coming up with headcanons for yet another GW2 human PC, but (very unusually for me) this one is not Ascalonian. She's a Canthan-Krytan commoner living in Divinity's Reach and part of the Canthan community there, but she's also part of the Orrian diaspora, and has a lot going on through the personal story in the intersection of those legacies and cultural ties.

#i don't know why gw2 of all things is where all my messy diaspora feelings go but it is #i was thinking about how my grandmother is literally one generation removed from her family in greece #but her parents didn't dare pass on their language and ... she'll bake me kourabiedes for christmas but can't pronounce kourabiedes #and suddenly my brain is like 'okay what if the fuck-you-i'm-canthan character was also orrian' #anghraine babbles #ascalonian grudgeblog #anghraine's gaming #xiulan azar #anghraine's headcanon #ellinoamerikana blogging

[anghraine]

There are occasions where it’s appropriate, but I low-grade resent the term “Greco-Roman,” esp where “Greek” or “Roman” would be more accurate, anyway.

#anghraine babbles #don't even know how to tag this... #ellinoamerikana blogging #??

[anghraine]

I was looking up art of Athena to use as an icon for an ancient Greece-themed D&D campaign I might be in, and wow is Sexy Athena an inescapable thing.

#so unnecessary tbh? normal athena is super hot but sexy athena is bleh #anghraine babbles #deep blogging #ellinoamerikana blogging #greek mythology #athena #dungeons and dragons

[anghraine]

Sometimes I still think about that weird German article about how the EU made a mistake in thinking of Greek people as the heirs to ancient Greeks, when modern Greeks are the mixed offspring of Albanians, Slavs, and “Byzantines” (and shouldn’t be in the EU for that reason, somehow?). 

Like, it was in a conservative magazine, but I’ve definitely seen people doing all kinds of gymnastics to sever actual Greek people from the legacy of the past to ... idk, turbo-charge the fetishization of it. It’s weird because my personal experience of Greek heritage is mostly “people being vaguely xenophobic about Grandma even though she was born in the USA” and yet people are so into Greek stuff when they can divorce it from living human beings.

#idk grandma is very sick rn and the shit she's dealt with is on my mind #not to say she isn't a privileged old white american lady of course #or even that she's a good person #but there are parts of the extended family who won't associate w/ her or her descendants and just call her 'that greek woman' #so having that (and some other things) on the one hand and then people being The Way They Are about greek stuff on the other is... #kind of a weird experience #and how they make their dismissal of living greeks square with their fetishization of ancient ones is doubly weird #not everyone is actively gross per the article but... yeah #anghraine babbles #ellinoamerikana blogging #bastard byzantine hybrids unite!

[anghraine]

nelayn replied to your post “nelayn replied to your post: If money was not an issue, what five...”

I'm not sure London counts as boring in anyone's books :p Oh, wow, you definitely have to come to see ancient Olympia some day, then :) That's so cool about the marathon!!! Maybe someday we could maverick a visit- Olympia isn't that close to Athens, but if you someday decide to try a trip over here, there's a couch with your name on it :)

That would be so cool! Thank you, dear <3

(a;kjfjdf wikipedia says that Olympia is just 18 km/11 mi from Grandma’s family’s area. !!!!!)

#nelayn #respuestas #her family wasn't lying about 'by olympia' lol #ellinoamerikana blogging #anghraine babbles

[anghraine]

I, uh ... whoa. 

Thank you, everyone. I’m not really sure what you’re all doing here (lol, except the ones who have joined me to cry over Rogue One) but I appreciate it!

If you’re new in these parts, a quick run-down:

Elizabeth

30

US American. I live near Portland, Oregon, and grew up on the northwest tip of Washington. ¡Viva Cascadia!

Progressive / feminist / firm Democrat.

Queer (ace lesbian), white (Greek/Irish/English), gender is ???? but I roll with woman (she/her), autistic, bipolar, etc.

I have a BA and an MA in English literature and perpetually exist in some form of grad school hell.

I like Tolkien, Austen, Star Wars, The Borgias, and Avatar (among other things, but those are the big ones) with a particular soft spot for angry/abrasive main characters, tormented villains, and combinations of both. Also, character parallels!

I dislike the LOTR films, the 1995 P&P, Tom Fontana’s Borgia, antis, and tie-in materials. (Please feel very free not to talk to me about the EU.)

Overview of The System (aka my immensely creative tags):

personal or fandom chatter that falls short of meta: #anghraine babbles 

replies to other people: #respuestas

replies to compliments in particular: #nice things people say to me

meta: #anghraine’s meta (with #not my meta for meta I like but didn’t write)

fic: #anghraine’s fic

recs: #anghraine’s recs

grumping: #anghraine rants

petulant complaining: #anghraine whines

blog stuff: #anghraine’s blogkeeping

gifs: #gifset for ts

music: #my little piano: music is magic

things that amuse me: #a thing of beauty is a joy forever

language: #linguistic stuff

grad school: #anghraine goes to grad school

my undying love for my home: #cascadia ftw

the sea: #eärnilmë (and occasionally #aldilmë for trees)

Greek-American shit: #ellinoamerikana blogging

mental illness stuff: #rare breed of attack unicorn

sexuality stuff: #a treeful of monkeys on nitrous oxide

birthday things: #beware the ides of march

politics: #politics for ts and (in most cases) #us politics for ts

I’ll make a fandom-specific tag masterpost at some point, but some relationships I care about:

Elizabeth Bennet/Fitzwilliam Darcy: #otp of otps

Jyn Erso/Cassian Andor: #otp: welcome home

Luke and Leia: #the skywalker twins

Anakin and Luke: #cleft chins psychotic rage and cyborg hands

Cesare Borgia/Lucrezia Borgia: #otp: you cannot kiss your reflection (also tagged with #incest for ts)

Rey/Finn: #otp: what are surnames

Noatak and Tarrlok: #the bloodbending brothers

Korra/Kuvira: #otp: i see myself in you

Aegnor/Andreth: #otp: nirnaeth arnoediad

Faramir/Aragorn: #otp: love was kindled

Fanny Price/Mary Crawford: #otp: a kind of fascination

Faramir/Éowyn: #otp: and the sun shone

Carmilla/Laura: #otp: through death and after

#anghraine babbles #anghraine's blogkeeping #this has been in drafts while i tried to put The System into some organized format #so it's more than that now and i'm just 'whaaaaaaaa' #hello everyone welcome to this vale of tears

[anghraine]

nelayn replied to your post: If money was not an issue, what five places would...

well, your families don’t come from very boring places, if I may say so myself :p That’s a heck of a list, I’d choose every place here in heartbeat. Well- except Ilia, I haven’t been even though it’s a stone’s throw away-I’d really like to see the Olympia archaeological site…

Hah, thank you! My mother also has some people from London (Shoreditch/Bethnal Green/etc), which def counts as Not Boring by my books.

It would be very cool to see ancient Olympia, I think! For me, especially as my grandmother was born and brought up around our Olympia (the state capital!) and only knew that her family was from around The Real One. She made my aunt promise to take me someday, but of course it’s a challenge from here.

(Oh, and these days there’s some kind of Ilia ... marathon or something that goes straight through her family’s hometown, so now I can actually find lots of pictures of Taxiárkhai :D).

#nelayn #respuestas #nice things people say to me #and my ancestors :P #ellinoamerikana blogging