#like............. idk idgi idc but this discourse is nonsensical to me | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

janiedean · 4 years

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I know your anti-HP but the Kylo discourse reminds me of that time a group of people tried to argue to me that if I thought Snape didnt deserve redemption then Dudley (a child that was raised in an abusive/neglectful household, was raised to believe/act in certain things/ways, grew up to realise his parents were wrong and started to attempt to make changes to his behaviour and be nicer) didnt deserve it either. Characters that show regret and remorse deserve a chance at redemption. Others dont.

... anon, idk if I understood the last two things right (i mean if it’s what you think or what the ppl discoursing with you think), but as far as I’m concerned, distancing myself from any hp related implication here because idk idc and if I never hear snape discourse in my life again it can’t be too late so idc about this specific discourse, tldr:

irl people who fucked up and want to do better should be given a chance to. not necessarily by the people they hurt and if they committed a crime they should pay appropriately before, but if they want to? they should have the chance. not being written off as lost causes;

people who aren’t Good Victims ™️ shouldn’t be refused help or compassion just because they don’t react the way they were supposed to;

this thing about whether redemption is deserved or not is a wording that is... weird because like, you get that if you want to do better but like it’s not a question of deserving or not, you don’t do better out of wanting to get the good place points, you just do it and if you do then welcome to the club;

narratively, obviously it depends on author decision - if the author wants X redeemed then they will be and it most likely will have a narrative where X feels remorse for his actions or has a chance to make up for his wrongdoings, if the author wants Y to just be a negative character who doesn’t redeem themselves then Y won’t have that narrative;

now, I think people should be objective about things, in the sense: you can like a character that the narrative had decided is not redeemable or is written as such (let’s go for someone that won’t cause me drama, idk, RAMSAY BOLTON): you can write your fanfic about how that person gets redeemed if you want to, but if you tell people they’re idiots for not wanting ramsay to be redeemed you’re not going to look that great because 99,9% of the audience won’t want ramsay to be redeemed as he’s not written as such. on the other side, if you hate a character (kylo ren FOR ONE) who is blatantly written to be redeemed because he was and it was obvious since tlj at least, you can write your fic or do your hc where he never redeems himself but saying that he’s the worst objectively or that kylo fans suck because they like a horrid character that you don’t want redeemed is useless and just digging yourself into a grave because canon is going there and you can’t do shit about it. like, if you don’t enjoy where canon is going you’re better off making peace with it and writing your au instead of being an ass to people who disagree with you;

now this also goes with the ‘please for the love of god look at the narrative’ angle because honestly denying what the narrative is blatantly telling is not paying anyone any favors and again, you can 100% choose to ignore it but twisting it won’t work (example: I don’t gaf about jon/erys and I wasn’t too big on its canonization but the moment it happened I didn’t spend months twisting the narrative so that it would say what I wanted it to say ie that jon/erys was doomed - it was canon, I just didn’t write it in fanfic nor thought about it beyond what I had to see and ignored its existence when I could and I didn’t go to ppl shipping jon/erys informing them of why I thought S7 was written like trash - why would I?). you can do whatever you want with the characters but like try to keep a healthy divide between what the narrative says and what you want for them and be an adult about it.

now: i haven’t read hp and idc for reading it nor watching the movies but if both s/nape and the kid in question were written to be redeemed because she wanted them to then they were because it was her story and she wanted them to be and idg why people are still arguing about that twenty years later but that’s another problem entirely. if person X doesn’t think kylo ren deserved redemption too bad the narrative had decided he was getting that since the beginning and it’s not about whether he deserves it or not, it’s about what the story is saying. as far as I’m concerned as long as you want to be a good person/better person/do good things in life you should be given a chance to prove it. in literature it’s up to the author. but like one thing is what you want for the character and what the author wants and how the author writes it bc if they’re good it will leave readers satisfied or at least not feeling like they were taken for idiots, if they’re not it’s going to be bad writing. that’s literally it. and I wish this redemption discourse didn’t feel like we think you buy it at the supermarket and/or there are standards for it and if you don’t meet them then whatever.

also: you can hate a thing and recognize it’s well written. like guys ian tregillis’s milkweed tryptich had a last book that took each single choice I didn’t want it to take and I hated what happened to all of the characters......... but that trilogy was actually so well-plotted, tight-knit and well thought and thematically sound that even if I hated everything it chose to be I still can recognize that it was good writing because it made sense, the plot held up and my personal dislike for it and for the protagonist as a person didn’t make it a bad book. or you can like a thing and recognize it’s terribly written or trash or a guilty pleasure. it happens. it’s fine. and when it comes to kylo discourse... it was an obvious redemption narrative with a character that was written to be sympathetic which resonated with some people and not with others which was eventually written badly because it didn’t pay off and 85% of this movie was an insult to the viewer. that’s literally it. and it’s 2019. like... it’s time to let it die especially when he redeemed himself. XD

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