#shadow the erdtree speculation

[the-odd-laundromat]

On Miquella, St. Trina, and Spirits

Warning, this is a fairly long post. Best buckle up.

I've started to let my imagination wander of late about Miquella, St. Trina, and spirit ashes within the lore of Elden Ring and its DLC. I made this for fun and I don't intend it in serious spirit. If this doesn't line up with your own theories or headcanons, that's cool. There are billions of people on the planet, and some of us are bound to disagree. Let's all be civil about it, please. (Do note this is just my personal blog, not dedicated exclusively to ER).

My theory is this: Apart from sleep (through St. Trina), Unalloyed Gold and the Haligtree, Miquella holds dominion over spirits; specifically Torrent, Spirit Ashes and spirit bosses you fight.

Miquella fits, if abstractly, into Elden Ring's mythological basis. He parallels the god Baldr from Norse myth, already an influence on Elden Ring (e.g., The Erdtree = Yggdrasil) in some ways: Baldr was associated with light and all good things, and was specifically noted to be beloved by all. Baldr's death (though that's Godwyn in ER) triggers Ragnarok. Baldr is among the gods who survive and return to a renewed, clean-slate world (Miquella wants to create a new world order with the Haligtree).

Now, I'll go out on a limb and propose that he also parallels Apollo of Greek myth. Apollo wasn't specifically beloved by all (I don't think), but he was significantly venerated, comparably to big-shots like Zeus, Athena, Aphrodite, and Hermes. He's also associated with light (one of his most common epithets is Phoebus Apollo, meaning Shining or Radiant Apollo), and is a twin (granted, Apollo and Artemis are rather different to Miq and Malenia). In the DLC trailer, Miquella glows, and the camera cuts immediately to a bright light bathing the strangler-fig tree (nature unknown) from behind.

Now comes the fun part: The connection between music, death, and sleep. Apollo is also famously a god of music, and in Elden Ring, spirits are also associated with it. You summon spirits in combat with the Spirit-Calling Bell, and Melina gives you the Spectral Steed Whistle to summon Torrent (who some speculate Miquella is the "original master" of, as supported by promotional art for the DLC). Curiously, Miquella's alter ego St. Trina is also associated with music: One of their titles is Saint Trina of the Cradlesong, and as mentioned in a cut quest, Miquella, as St. Trina, supposedly sang a lullaby to the Frenzied Flame Merchants to ease their suffering. To my knowledge, no other figure has such an association to music.

Fittingly for a game constantly trying to kill you, Elden Ring is in no shortage of death gods and suchlike figures. Maliketh and Godwyn may be considered death gods through their relation to Deathroot/the Rune of Death, you have the Deathbirds/Twinbird and the Gloam-Eyed Queen and the Ancestor Spirit, Ghostflame and Blackflame and the Frenzied Flame - heck, Malenia/the Scarlet Rot God could even qualify, as a harbinger of decay and apocalypse. My proposition is that Miquella is or will become another death god, but of merciful death, of deathlike sleep and the peaceful dream of oblivion - hence his connection to the Shadow Realm. And potentially the first spirit tuner - Hewg tutors Roderika because he's "indebted to a spirit tuner [he] met long ago". After all, in Greek mythology, Sleep (Hypnos) is brother to Death (Thanatos).

Are there holes in this? Yeah, probably. Will the DLC canon crush this theory under Messmer's open-toed cowboy boots? Most definitely. That's okay. Part of the fun of speculation is seeing just how crazy you can get with it. Sorry this is so long-winded. I hope you enjoyed this deranged romp through the mythology of this super cool video game.

#who will claim the title of Right All Along? #VaatiVidya? SmoughTown? Miss Chalice? the Tarnished Archaeologist? or one other... a blog of no reknown? hahaha #elden ring #elden ring lore #elden ring theory #elden ring headcanon #miquella #miquella the unalloyed #miquella of the haligtree #st trina #saint trina #saint trina of the cradlesong #elden ring dlc #shadow of the erdtree #shadow the erdtree speculation #elden ring speculation #shadow of the erdtree lore #elden ring dlc speculation #elden ring dlc theory #own post

[val-of-the-north]

More observations for the trailer I am going insane!!!

I can't claim the original observation of this candle tree detail is mine, but it's from a Japanese Twitter user, here's a screenshot of the post and a link to it as well [x]

The rest of this observation IS mine though, so let's get to it:

With all the talk of cardinal sin, Messmer having a few parallels to Lucifer as pointed out by some friends of mine [x] I have to wonder if he is the cause of a speculated first burning of the Erdtree.

If this is the first time you have heard about this concept, I'll give a short summary. You know how Leyndell is covered in ash by the time we reach it in-game, and how that goes unexplained? We know for a fact that must be the Erdtree's ashes because after we claim the Rune of Death and the Erdtree burns even more, the capital is entombed in it.

We are also told that the Age of Plenty, an age in which the Erdtree gave physical blessings from its sacred sap, swiftly came to a close and the tree had to be changed to simply an object of faith...

So the theory claims that the reason why the Age of Plenty ended so swiftly was due to the Erdtree being set on fire. In theory spaces, the go-to culprit for this speculated action has often been the Gloam-Eyed Queen, with her connections to fire (Blackflame specifically) and Destined Death, but now there's the possibility that this was all Messmer's doing after all. Promotional material and dialogue seems to really denote his affinity for scorching and setting things ablaze.

This probably also means he is the inventor of that scary flame construct that according to Miyazaki as per this interview [x] was an old war machine, no doubt used during this "unsung battle".

Another important part of Messmer's design is the two snakes, which point us back to the Age of Plenty! Godfrey likely ruled during and directly after that time, and the arenas were likely built because of him. It had to be during Godfrey's rule because by the time Radagon became Elden Lord the practices of the colosseums had died down, as told to us by the Ritual Sword and Shield Talismans:

One of the more interesting aspects of the gladiatorial battles that once took place is the snake symbolism on the gladiators' armor.

So the snake was a symbol of a generic "traitor to the Erdtree", and it predated Rykard's blasphemy by an entire age at least... so what if it wasn't generic at all and it represented Messmer himself? He might have been the perpetrator of a betrayal so foul that Marika removed all traces of his existence from her empire's history, but kept the symbol of the snake as a spiteful reminder of him and all other subsequent traitors. After all, she does seem to have power over which one of her children gets remembered or not, and if not her, then the collective of the Golden Order:

Do note that we don't know when she said this. It could have been while she was still at the height of her rule or right before the Shattering. What we do know for a fact is that the soulless demigods inside the Walking Mausoleums have no known history to speak of, which is quite unlike Godwyn, one of the more accomplished members of the family. So yeah, being forgotten by history might be something the Golden Order does to those they deem unfit, so Messmer could be a likely candidate for such treatment... except instead of doing nothing noteworthy he did TOO much lol.

Now I gotta wonder if Marika hated him more or less than her Omen babies. One could argue that locking them down in a sewer close to where she lives was done more as an obligation than any true resentment. She could have sent them to the Shadow Lands if she really wanted them gone and unaccessible, as that place seems filled with Crucible-related things...

I am not saying she was a good mother to them because she didn't kick them to the Shadow Lands, but perhaps she DID have some small affection for them that she really couldn't follow through with.

Of course, maybe she just couldn't banish them anymore after banishing Messmer for whatever reason (maybe she cut-off a connection to that realm?). However, the most likely possibility is that he WAS known like the many soulless demigods and that Mohg and Morgott predate him. It's just that while those two were born undesirable through no fault of their own and were thus only hidden away, he BECAME undesirable which was worse in Marika's eyes so he gets the extra banishment and the removal of all of his history... there are so many possibilities...

#elden ring #messmer the impaler #shadow of the erdtree #elden ring dlc #hi I am really excited if you couldn't tell #I'll try not to think about it too much for now since otherwise I'm gonna blow up because the info will never be ENOUGH #still I'm gonna speculate if some new cool revelation comes up #val-post

[liurnian]

if Messmer is truly enforcing Marika's rule in the Land of Shadow, I still find it interesting that he's doing it while being a living embodiment of every anti Golden Order symbol.

At first I thought he was gonna be a rebel son, opposing Marika and everything she stands for, and because of that he was banished in the Land of Shadow. From the last trailer tho it seems like he's committing atrocities in Marika's name, maybe to help her keep everything in the Land of Shadow swept under the rug?? So if he's truly mommy's little war criminal boy I wonder why he's got so much blasphemous imagery going on..... 🤔🤔🤔

#the situation is for sure much more complicated than the glimpse we got from the trailer #but it's fun to speculate #honestly i cant stop rotating the trailer at full speed in my head #elden ring #shadow of the erdtree #messmer the impaler

[velvet-apricots]

Im cooking on twitter right now.

#shadow of the erdtree #elden ring #miquella the unalloyed #miquella #lore posting #dlc speculation

[bippusmymippus]

So we’ve all seen the deathblight swamp (thank you mr Miyazaki sir, we expected nothing less), but I haven’t seen any post about this:

Turn up your brightness. Doesn’t it look like sleeping beauty here is taking a nap in a puddle? I propose this: sleep swamp.

And why not? Sleep is a status effect, there’s no reason why there couldn’t be a sleep swamp. And the flowers! Fields of soporific flowers aren’t a new idea, look at the scene in the Wizard of Oz where the gang takes a drug nap in a field of opium poppies! Probably not a coincidence, you won’t believe what opium poppies look like (they come in a lot of different colors actually but they mostly all have the same petal pattern and general appearance).

They look an AWFUL LOT like the flowers in the scene from the trailer, I’m just saying. Sleep swamp.

#elden ring #shadow of the erdtree #elden ring dlc #st Trina #sleep swamp #speculation #poison swamp

[eldritchtouched]

I don't trust that new character.

So, minor-ish Shadow of the Erdtree spoilers, though Elden Ring's Twitter itself officially posted the art.

Talking about this person here.

Their whole everything is very, very off.

Now, I will first note that a lot of their design elements are very specifically stuff associated with Miquella and Trina. Helixes and lilies and growing plants, along with the colors. (I should know. I spent way too much time screenshotting and looking at stuff in Elphael and the Haligtree lol.)

But it's the how that first set off alarm bells.

So, you see, Miquella's own outfits tend to be very simple when we've seen him depicted in statues, and in the other pieces of artwork. His followers wear some more complicated designs, along with certain items associated with him/implied to be his creations, such as the Pulley Bow and Malenia's prosthetics.

This design is far too overdesigned. It's so over the top and that's what's bothering me. Miquella's following and Malenia wear nicer stuff than Miquella himself, true, but it never is to this point. Mohg himself, while he has his ostentatious mantle, has some much simpler clothing underneath.

(Mohg seemed to key in on Miquella's distaste with showy stuff, too. He's the only logical person to have made the ring that the giant Miquella body is wearing. It's notably subdued compared to Mohg's taste for ostentatious clothing and seems more akin to the little flower buttons on Mohg's undershirt in its relative simplicity.)

There's also some oddities in terms of the details as well. The white cloak isn't pure white and has some almost purple undertones (more of a pink). We've seen this before, though- Dolores the Sleeping Arrow, wearing the page's armor, and it is similar in that it's almost a pinkish color instead of purple. (Who, mind you, is tied to St. Trina.) The sword itself has a crisscrossing pattern that is reminiscent of Radagon's seal.

There's also the implication that they are the one giving the dialogue to tell the player to go to the Land of Shadow, and narrating about what Miquella told them. Along with the implication that they're some kind of knight of Miquella.

First thing's first. Miquella never had any knights sworn to him specifically. All of the people in Elphael are specifically Haligtree knights and soldiers, not Miquellan. We do encounter a Miquellan Knight Sword, but it is explicitly labeled as not having a master. It seems awfully suspicious that someone shows up as what is clearly supposed to be a knight of Miquella.

Miquella also departed for the Land of Shadow alone. And everything in the world design seems to imply that he wanted to keep both his following safe (and probably the Mohgwyn dynasty, too, considering all the design overlaps in security), and to make sure nobody would actually follow him.

So this person miraculously shows up, knowing how to get to Miquella despite Miquella deliberately leaving alone, when everyone Miquella clearly cared for doesn't seem to know what's going on.

Second is how they know what they know. They talk as if they've spoken to Miquella, but that seems really fucking weird, doesn't it? If Miquella deliberately left the way he did, why would he just tell random people he met that kind of stuff? Too much of it is raising red flags for that reason. He seems to have been very secretive in what he knew, like he wanted to fix it all without getting others involved unless necessary. He compartmentalized information quite a bit.

This makes sense, though, if it isn't something they needed to be told because they already knew it.

I think it's St. Trina, searching for Miquella, to get him to go back to his fate. A fate Miquella deliberately wished to abandon.

#elden ring #elden ring theory #miquella the unalloyed #shadow of the erdtree #speculation

[miquellaluciscaelum]

Just insane thought. If Messmer really is the part of Miquella or his least left part after rejection of all Golden. Than, Messmer- Miquella relationship is an absolute projection of Marika-Radagon relationship. Where Miquella is Marika and rebellious main part of being that has most time of acting while Messmer is a Radagon part, created artificially and be radically pro-erdtree being, initially absolutely obeying Greater will and Golden Order but at the end became more independent and aggressive to the main personality and took over control like Radagon. If all of this became the truth somehow, it would be the most genius and at the same time the most fucked up scenario and parallel in the whole video game industry I know. Miquella would be the absolute projection and reflection of Marika and this really scares me.

#elden ring #elden ring dlc #elden ring miquella #miquella #miquella the unalloyed #shadow of the erdtree #messmer the impaler #lore #speculations #dlc

[thevampirelestit]

Something I noticed with the new elden ring trailer and going off my thoughts on the lore.

My current thought is that Marika WAS the Gloam Eyed Queen, who was defeated by radagon and reborn/fused into him to provide a Rebus, a perfected being to rule the Golden Order. In the trailer you can see the figure reach into what seems to be a godskin hood/cloak, grabbing strands of golden hair. But the figure walking seems to have almost reddish hair, only illuminated gold by the light of the hair stolen.

This also goes into something I've wondered for a while. The only time we ever see Marika's face not veiled over her eyes is the ending, where we see one eye closed, and one eye missing. The Beast Eye given by Gurranq/Maliketh is a stone eye that reacts to death, the Realm of domain for the GEQ before her defeat. This eye being stone much like Marika, as well as being the only missing eye that could have belonged to her, makes me believe she was Emperyan, but was defeated by Radagon/Maliketh/the Greater Will and used for the Golden Order, something that would cause her children of flame (Melina, Messmer who both share an eye motif) to try and take revenge on the order, or to replace/usurp the current way.

#elden ring #shadow of the erdtree #elden ring spoilers #im like 40% sure this is correct btw im just speculating

[ishaslife]

Who is Messmer?

I really think that Messmer is Marika's exiled son or something. Radagon and her may have been involved from wayyy before and likely had a son in secret or he's an offshoot of the two of them when they merged (if they weren't already one being) and dude went on to do his own thing. Because if you remember, in one of Marika's echos, she's talking to her demigod kids and she's basically saying that they must strive to become a lord or even a god and if they failed to do either, they will be sacrificed.

I believe Marika had many, many more children yet only those who succeeded in making something of themselves were made demigods and were written about. Just like Melina who is also likely Marika's daughter and I definitely think, so is Messmer. A bit of a stretch, but he might just be her brother or even twin. Both of them have an eye that's shut, they are both associated with fire/burning and both of them have been removed from history. Their origins are shrouded in mystery, almost as if the world didn't want them to be remembered or recorded.

Perhaps Messmer succeeded in becoming one of the demigod children but to an extent where he attempted to usurp the erdtree order with one of the serpent as there is say that there is a forgotten serpent diety in Mt. Gelmir. This may the diety Rykard was in search of when he found the God-devouring serpent and assumed that to be the "outer" God.

My assumption is: Messmer was captured by his mother's forces and instead of being killed or sacrificed (probably because they thought that they could use his skills), he was exiled, his powers and strength being put to use in another land where he would serve his punishment by killing those robbed of the "grace of gold." Which is what he is continuing when we will meet him in the DLC. He sees us as being stripped of its grace because the influence of the greater will more or less no longer exists, we have established an entirely new order but Messmer doesn't know that.

There is no doubt in my mind that he is Marika's son as he basically mocks his mother's "decision" to have someone like us made lord, someone without grace.

#elden ring #elden ring shadow of the erdtree #elden ring dlc #elden ring theory #elden ring speculation #messmer the impaler #elden ring messmer

[aimlesspost]

ok so, thoughts on the dlc art:

- Color is very, very important in Elden Ring; color scheme used in the concept art is grey/black/gold, which is the color scheme for death blight

- The tree in the distance is actually two trees: the central one is the Erdtree we see in game (it has the same shape and is tilted at the same angle), and there's an additional black growth wrapping around it. Seems to me the growth could be deathroot.

- The figure riding Torrent is very clearly Miquella. Same clothing as his statues, same hair as in the intro cutscene, including the braid that looks like a helix (sometimes double, sometimes triple) pattern, which is present in most items associated with Miquella (needle, haligtree helmet, haligtree symbol, cut content dreambrew) and seems to be his primary symbol.

- It seems like Miquella might have been Torrent's former master, mentioned by Ranni when she gives the player the spirit calling bell. This could make sense, as Torrent’s whistle features a similar helix design and is made of gold; it also would explain how/why Ranni put Kalé to sleep, and why the Church of Elleh is filled with purple mist (associated with sleep items) when you first meet her. This is, comparatively, a rather small mystery when it comes to Elden Ring lore, but it’s bugged me for a while. I guess if Trina/Miquella entrusted Ranni with the bell, they’d also give her some help with delivering it? Brings into question why, though.

- Following up on this, you can only use the spirit calling bell when the rebirth monument icon is on screen--and the icon looks similar to the ghostly tombstones in the concept art. Probably a coincidence, but still.

- The ghostly gravestones and symbols may have a connection to the candle-trees that summon ghosts in the open world--and whose pattern is only ever used again in the Haligtree. Might be a bit of a stretch, though.

- Miquella had a positive relationship with Godwyn, and seems to have wanted to bring about the eclipse to allow him to “die a true death.”

- The eclipsed sun is the “protective star of soulless demigods”--supposedly those who died in the Night of Black Knives, including Godwyn. The eclipsed sun is described as "drained of all color," and, as we can see in the eclipse crest greatshield and Castle Sol banners, this is commonly depicted as the color literally draining downwards like spilled paint.

- The Erdtree depicted in the art seems to be drained of its color, as it’s mostly black, and we can see the gold literally trickling/dripping out of it, not unlike the depiction of the eclipsed sun.

#tldr i think the dlc will feature both miquella and godwyn #does the 'shadow' of the erdtree refer to the deathroot? idk idk #i also think this might take place in miquella's dream im not ready to let go of that idea #elden ring #elden ring dlc #miquella the unalloyed #godwyn the golden #speculation

[fightabear]

So… I’m avoiding spoilers like the plague, but if Vincent does have a golden ring around his eye in remake like how it LOOKS in the trailers then that’s really interesting. And perhaps symbolizes that he’s playing host to Chaos, but is not fully integrated with him.

Which then explains why Weiss’ eyes don’t have that ring in Remake. Weiss isn’t Omega’s host yet. And as for why Weiss had two rings instead of one - maybe it's that Weiss, being dead at the time, was better able to fuse with the weapon. Or as Omega is a full fledged WEAPON and Chaos isn't, both eyes took on that glow.

Which then makes me think about Nero’s shadow form, where both of his eyes go pure gold. I also think that the "Omega" part of the Omega Weiss boss battle is actually Nero approximating what a properly summoned Chaos would look like.

Which brings me to my final rampant speculation point - i have the personal pet headcanon that Nero ended up succeeding Vincent as Chaos' host and so did not fuse with Weiss. In the final boss battle, Weiss is ejected first and the thing he was riding in (which coincidentally shares Nero's color scheme and looks like a more volved form of Arachnero) actually lingers and its eyes slowly go out. It never falls the same way Weiss does.

So my headcanon has been that while Chaos returned to the Planet, it did so after fully fusing with Nero who had already sacrificed his body and was more or less in full baby weapon mode, and Weiss was left alive and picked up by Genesis.

It's also just wild, rampant speculation - but given the Secret ending of Dirge, I feel like Weiss and Genesis are going to be involved in the divergence from canon. And Weiss is going to be heavily invested in stopping that future from happening because he'd rather his baby brother not be eternally transformed into a mech from hell?

#nero the sable #weiss the immaculate #ff7r trailer spoilers #everyone else is over here speculating about The Scene and i'm like SHADOWS OF THE ERDTREE DOESNT COME OUT FOR MONTHS #IM BREAKING OUT MY SOULESBORN LOGIC BRAIN

[cm999]

Speculation on Messmer: I think it’s likely he was another demigod child of Radagon, erased from history due to committing a cardinal sin.

I see some similarities with the Nameless King, and with those 2 snakes he has, I have a feeling there will be a great second phase.

Bronze helm decorated with innumerable snakes. Worn by gladiators who were driven from the colosseum. The wearer becomes a slightly easier target for foes.

The snake is viewed as a traitor to the Erdtree, and the audience delighted in seeing these bronze effigies beaten and battered

#elden ring #elden ring shadow of the erdtree #messmer the impaler #nameless king #speculation

[telafel]

Messmer Speculation:

Messmer was Godfrey + Marika kiddo (older, locked away pre-shattering, name in-keeping with the M's of Marika's shunned children Morgott + Mohg) is touched by the power of an outer god (most likely the fell god) or embraced this flame power. Potentially tied to the god devouring serpent somehow... I don't know the connection yet. (snake motif. snakes could equally be tied to dragons (and this is pulling from dark souls lore bc Miyazaki likes similar themes. serpents descend from dragons). He could also just be touched by the crucible by a lesser degree.

Fought against the giants, saw the exile of the tarnished with Marika's goals in mind for them to return and become lord. (Dialogue in trailer, he knows tarnished and that Marika would have them become lord.) He could have lead the fire monks that fought on the erdtrees behalf during that too!

Text backing up my thoughts:

Flame Protect me:

"The most ancient of the Fire Monks' incantations. Creates a fire within that greatly increases fire damage negation.

It is said that this incantation was used during the War against the Giants long ago, during which it protected the champions of the Erdtree."

From the Catch Flame incantation: "The flame of ruin is anathema to the Erdtree. But prophets sometimes glimpse it within the faith all the same. Sadly when this occurs their sole reward is banishment. " + Surge, O Flame "And so, following the War against the Giants, its [flame of ruin] ruinous blaze was sealed, and guardians were appointed to watch over it."

+

Burn, O Flame "The Fire Giants borrowed from the power of a fell god, and still they were defeated. Yet their failure released them from their solitary curse: to serve as keepers of the Flame for eternity.

Marika easily assessed Messmer as a threat having fire that could burn the erdtree. I wonder if she she feared what could happen if she tried to fight/kill him considering if he lead the flame monks he had a whole gang at his back with fire and banishment was easier. It would also chop the head off that entire organization and lock them away to watch the flame in the mountaintops and lock them away.

I also have this thought that if he was the kid of Marika and Godfrey that he would have claim to the throne, making him extra bitter and spurned by his lack of recognition, that Godwyn was THE ONE kid they had that was worthy and praised, while the others got shut out once their usefulness was done.

his weapon design is also interesting and probably means something: it vaguely reminds me of the branches of the weird fire trees/staves at the fire monk camps

honestly idk how the snakes and snake eyes play into this whole theme yet besides Mt. Gelmir and fire being associated via the fire sorceries. But I'm also not a super expert on Elden Ring lore aside from a few areas I've done research on for Lore Stuff and writing.

#shadow of the erdtree #elden ring #shadow of the erdtree spoilers #shadow of the erdtree speculation #long post #probably all obvious associations but I gotta feed my brain worms

[infobotbot]

maybe Messmer the impaler is the product of immaculate conception, a virgin mary situation

#maybe thats were marika got the idea she can half herself or some shit #elden ring #elden ring spoilers #elden ring speculation #shadow of the erdtree spoilers #spoilers

[pionponpon]

Trailer's out, trailer's out!

Thoughts on the Shadow of the Erdtree trailer below:

- Crucible wings!

- Grafting is back on the menu, someone copied Godfrey's homework.

- New old man painting, it could be a disguised Morgott ("Erdtree faithful") but as no-one ever knew what he looked like it's unlikely. Who is the blindfolded woman? I like her hair decorations.

- The woman on the throne gives me Tanith vibes, she looks like she wants you to kill someone, please and thank you

- A pretty butterfly spell would work great with my magical girl build

- Rune bear 2.0

- Several things with signs of the crucible

- Does that skeleton knight have a blob for a head??

- flames and serpents? If this is the past Rykard is a poser confirmed

-Messmer is the new Malenia fight, I can feel it.

[! ! WARNING! INSANE THEORY SPECULATION BASED ON 30 SECONDS OF FOOTAGE AND NOTHING ELSE !!]

The areas seem to resemble parts of the lands between at least in terms of lighting like Liurnia and Mt.Gelmir. Maybe the shadowy realm is an amalgamate of memories. It does look like the bottom of the Haligtree where the white mask has died.

Messmer is probably the reason snakes are seen as a symbol of betrayal. They're also wearing a drake set?

"They were never saints"- other than St Trina I don't recall any other mention of saints apart from the dead demigods in the mausoleums. If the new area is made of the dreams and memories of the dead then they might be found there. They are described as soulless but that hasn't stopped Miquella looking for a way to put Godwyn to rest.

The old man is the elder that haunts omens and the woman in the painting is his pregnant consort (hand placed over her belly). His child was born omen and killed her, making him curse all subsequent omens in rage. The lion-dancer-grafted-thing is his child desperate for his favour to the point they grafted a lion beast to emulate Godfrey. The omen curse has spread to the lion head causing more horns. (source:none, I just think the omen lore is neat :3)

I've got nothing for them using lightning. THEY'RE ACTUALLY GODWYN THE GRAFTED

Speaking of horns, the spell used on or by the "hippo" looks like the statues of the crucible pointed out by the Tarnished Archeologist.

If it's the land of the dead it makes sense that some animals don't appear in the base game- they're extinct. With a few creatures displaying signs of the crucible, i.e horns all over the place, it makes sense that they were heavily persecuted and no longer exist in the present era.

the voice at the end of the trailer telling you to "touch the withered arm" is, I think, Miquella. Being in the other realm has distanced himself from his material body to the extent he no longer views it as his.

"Touch the withered arm,Tarnished, I dare you. If you don't I'll tell everyone you play with dolls."- Miquella, perpetual shit kid

Part of the fun of theory crafting is coming up with 99% bullshit and flinging it at the wall to see what sticks.

#elden ring #shadow of the erdtree #speculation #*zoom in my 140 p video* morgott? is that morgott? that could be morgott #i can tell by the pixels that-

[tetheredtoamast]

Giant Elden Ring DLC thoughts

Who is telling you to touch the withered arm and enter the dream? Because whoever it is has a Welsh accent like the Carians (Rennala, Ranni, Rykard, Radahn, Iji, Blaidd, and idk Pidia and Thops)

Who is this Messmer fucker

Because subsequent to that question: he has Empyrean looking traits like Radagon’s hair and gold eyes, but also dragon eyes and snake shit, and also his left eye is closed like Ranni and Melina

Because also, they’re pronouncing Messmer “Mesmer” which kind of implies something about sleep. And we all know Miquella and sleep already have a thing, and Miquella already has a sleep-associated alter ego, St. Trina.

And like he’s got some thorny blood incantation looking stuff which implies something about Mogh’s outer god, the Formless Mother.

And Miquella’s parents were two gods who were also the same god. One with blonde hair and one with red hair.

His twin sister is an enormous, immensely powerful red haired warrior, but he stayed a blond child. He basically formed a chrysalis to attempt to grow himself into an adult before being cocoon-napped by Mogh.

So I don’t know for sure what I’m getting at here, but there are a lot of ways via which I get the idea that Messmer could just… be Miquella in some way. A version of Miquella as he could be; a tall, red-haired, golden-eyed warrior Empyrean alter ego of a blond god, who lives inside a dream and has been influenced by Mogh.

Also I’ll take all the armor and the new crossbow please and thank you, also I wish it was June, let’s go Summer Solstice

PPS If anyone sees this, huge disclaimer that I’m a giant fan but don’t claim to know all the lore and symbolism perfectly well so I could easily be way way off base in some super foundational way, haha

#elden ring #elden ring spoilers #I guess? #wild speculation #personal garbage #shadow of the erdtree