#then lesboys with the same argument

[thee-radio-host-is-a-kookaburra]

#max squawks #like first it was bi lesbians in the form of “you're the reason men harass lesbians” #then lesboys with the same argument #and now it's transmascs in the form of “it's your fault that terfs harass you” #like damn! #y'all love to call people bigots until it comes to actual bigoted people #it's all “hold people accountable” until you actually have to hold people accountable #transmultiphobia #homomultiphobia #transandrophobia #bi lesbian #mspec lesbian #lesboy #mspec gay #transmasc #trans male

[redheadbigshoes]

Got ass deep in the bi-lesbian discourse and the main argument in defense of them I keep seeing is "well sexuality wasn't so rigidly defined historically! all sapphics were called lesbians even up until the 80s/90s!!"

yeah, now they're bisexual, or pansexual, because lesbian didn't adequately define their experiences. Do we still call transgender people trans*xuals or transv*stites??? Do we still call gay men fairies??? No!! Because the meanings of words change over time and carry more weight and the needs of the community necessitated the change.

These same people saying that Bi-Lesbian or Lesboy or whatever the shit they're coming up with now would not ask their friend "Hey wanna go catch a Talkie tonight? I hear the female lead is a real hot tomato!" because.... words change. Meanings change. "It used to be normal!" is a bullshit excuse in any other context; the language evolved because what was used harmed the groups of people it described.

"It's not hurting anyone!!" It is hurting the lesbian community by diluting the meaning of the word and invalidating the lesbian experience of Not Being Attracted To Men. You cannot be a lesbian and be attracted to men, just like you cannot be tall and also short.

how is that so difficult for them to grasp??

The way they think it’s okay to do things that were okay in the past just like conservatives and think that’s being progressive lol

It used to be normal and acceptable conversion therapy, does that make it okay to do it now? Their logic sucks

And they’re acting as if it doesn’t hurt the lesbian, bisexual and trans community all in one…

#stephanie answers #sappphica #long post #‘bi lesbians’

[bilesproblems]

(sorry this is long my adhd decided to infodump lmfao)

technically not an mspec lesbian thing but a gaybian thing so close enough(?), but i've been thinking ab an interaction i had recently a lot and i rlly wanted to talk ab it ;w;

a bit ago i was hanging out at this place with a "friend" (he likes me more than i like him :p) and he knows im genderfluid and identify as gaybian

a while ago (like long before this situation) i tried to explain to him ab lesboys using the example of a bigender boygirl (i think i talked ab it on this blog actually? tumblr search is mean tho so im not sure) and he basically was so set in stone that lesbian had to mean non-men loving non-men that he explained it by saying that "a bigender person [specifically boygirl] could identify as lesbian because they identify as bigender not as a boy" which is like soo fucking invalidating to bigender ppl dkfhvidufhv but anyway

so he already strongly still thinks you cant be lesbian while a boy or gay (turian) while a girl

anyway back to the main point sorry im rambling lol

we were at this place and there were paintings on the wall that happened to be (or maybe were purposefully) the lesbian and gay flag colors

and he was joking with me and pointed at the lesbian colored one and said "this is you sometimes," then pointed at the gay colored one and said "this is you other times!"

and i didnt say anything in the moment (didnt wanna start an argument) but it really pissed me off (and hurt) that he said sometimes

it felt just as bad as if he had misgendered me...

no!! im both a lesbian AND gay man at the SAME TIME at ALL TIMES do NOT say "sometimes"!!!!

I keep thinking ab it and it rlly does hurt :<

Yeah you did talk about that before, and damn. Some gaybians are fluid between the two but not all of them. I want to be happy he's at least trying but I don't think he really even is if he doesn't think bigender men are man enough or that you're a gaybian at all times even though I doubt you haven't explained it to him

[omniaspec-rat]

[Pfp ID: A round image of the face of the character Wooly from the game "Amanda the Adventurer", a 3D model of a nice looking bipedal lamb. At the edge of the image, there is the panagender gaybian flag (by @caeliangel), which consists of 7 horizontal stripes of the same size that are, from top to bottom: blue-ish black, blue-ish green, light lime green, light yellow, light orange, light pink, and reddish black. Wolly has a happy expression with his mouth open. End ID.]

[Header ID: A simple drawing of the TBH creature/autistic creature/yippee, which is a white quadrupedal creature with a big round head and big glowing eyes, and a serious expression. The background of the image is equally divided by two flags. On the right, the lesboy flag, a flag of 6 horizontal stripes of equal sizes that are, from top to bottom: dark purple, pinkish red, light orange, pastel blue, violet and dark blue. On the left, the turigirl flag, a flag of 6 horizontal stripes of equal sizes that are, from top to bottom: dark purple, violet, greenish blue, pastel pink, light orange and pinkish red. End ID.]

Hey hey!

About me:

I'm anominal but my astanames are Sam and Samira. I use any pronouns (yes even emojipronouns and neos). My identity is too big to put in one post but you can say I'm omniaspec omni gaybian panagender. I am autistic, and I have ADHD, BPD, OCD and social anxiety. My race is mixed and I am a minor.

My native language is *not* English, so don't be surprised if there happen to be some grammatical errors or if some of my sentences seem messy or meaningless. I try to use the translator to avoid this, but it's not very reliable.

I'm extremely sensitive to other people's opinions, so if you need to let me know of any mistakes, I ask that you be kind! I also need the use of tone tags (or whatever way you want to communicate your intentions to me).

I don't have any DNI (because that doesn't usually stop people who annoy), but I would block you if you make me feel unconfortable.

BYF below cut:

BYF:

I'm pro endogenic systems and pro willogenic systems (no syscourse here), pro mogai/neos/xenogender, pro mspec lesbians/gays/straights and lesboy/turigirl, pro "controversial" or "outdated" identities, pro SAM and (all) aspec people, pro paraphilias (anti-contact dw), pro alterhuman/otherkin/therian/furry (I'm okay with KFF), pro self-dx (researched), pro SFW agere/agedre and petre/petdre, and pro AFAB transfem/AMAB transmasc.

I use words like "queer", "dyke" or "fag/faggot".

I believe in transandrophobia and transmisoginy.

I'm anti racists, anti transrace/transabled/transopinion, anti demonization of any mental illness (personality disorder, cluster b...), anti consang/incest and anti-harassment.

I'm not comfortable with proshipers (not counting those who are strictly against underage with adults ships or ships that involve family members, and believe that fiction affects reality).

If you happen to be a respectful person and disagree with any of these things, I ask you to leave.

None of my opinions are up for debate, I don't want to get involved in arguments in general and I guarantee that forcing me into it won't change my mind.

Enjoy your stay! 🐭

[bi-sapphics]

LMFAOOOOOOOO 95% sure this was me, cry about it and consider yourself mutually blocked (i didn’t know why initially but now i no longer feel bad even though that post is a month old now LOL). plus your arguments make absolutely no sense and show that you prefer to stick with what you were taught than to consider another perspective. y’all only have the “misdirected because it means lesbian” argument and that’s easily debunked in literally any of those links (also on my profile) you click on to read (especialy this one). also the racial slur argument comes completely outta ur ass and i’m gonna need to stop seeing it to maintain any sense of sanity bc there is absolutely no intersectional experiences between white & black people in terms of same class of division (i.e. if they were both women they’d still experience misogyny together) but it’s a completely different story for lesbians & bi women. give me a decent source for literally anything you just claimed and critically explain it if you’re so confident that this very recent argument is the correct one. and do so without being bimisogynistic about men and wlw experiences, please.

where is that post i found the other night that says smth like “people are so focused on the erased version of lesbian history that now they think anything bi women do is lesbophobia (and in this case ‘disrespectful’ when it actually never was in the first place” cause that is so accurate rn

edit: found it (the original is deleted and the only reblog i could possibly find is from a radfem so beware, i’m sorry)

edit 2: i’d like to make it clear since i didn’t mention it but op did add onto the original post with the same format but speaking against “male lesbians” or “lesboys” that time and i do in fact agree with that. i’m very openly against lesboys & mspec “lesbians” so take that how you will.

#slur discourse #d slur #d slur discourse #lesbophobia #biphobia #bimisogyny #lesbian separatism #lesbian history #bisexual history #lesbian exclusive #chase.txt #also i'm petty so the url is redheaddyke #(i'm a redhead too so you should know we're known to be spicy and brutal) #radfem mention #anti radfem #argument debunked

[rei-does-stuff]

Alrighty, so looking through some stuff. I just realized a good chunk of hate toward mspec people with a mono identity is just aphobia and arophobia dressed up. I realized this when I came across a post going against women who are bisexual but only date men.

It’s really weird. It’s basically “Say you’re against Aspec folk without saying you’re against Aspec folk”

Okay so firstly, this isn’t stupid bc you’re right

Secondly yeah, a lot of anti-mspec lesbian arguments are the same argument used by aphobic people, its the same argument with a different filter,

Thats what exclus do, they yell at whatever identity is even a little bit out of the norm and scream about it until it’s widely accepted and then they move on to the next,

One day mspec lesbians and lesboys will be accepted by the wider community (as it slowly is currently) and then the exclus will have to move on to something else

#rei says stuff #ask

[bilesproblems]

As a mspec lesbian I'm literally tired of bigots coming up to me trying to force TERF rhetoric down my throat until I block them, the year literally hadn't even started right and a "mutual" decided to accuse me of agreeing with violent ideologies against lesbians (??)

they even had the audacity to discuss it in a public tweet, of course, full of TERF rhetoric and harmful comments about mspec lesbian.

Good lord. Literally every argument against mspec lesbians is TERF shit and/or fearmongering. Sure, when they say "lesbians can't ever like men" they're not thinking of trans women because they recognize trans women as women, but they're still reusing the same rhetoric that TERFs use.

(also when they equate being a woman with not being a man, and not being a man with being a woman, what am I supposed to think other than that they're transphobic/exorsexist?)

But seriously. "Violent" ideologies against lesbians? That's gotta be the fucking argument that mspec lesbians cause "real" lesbians to be sexually assaulted in an attempt to "correct" them. That just. It isn't how this works. Not only does it completely ignore the purpose of "correcting" (I'll make a whole post of my own against that argument sometime with more details) but also, you can't ever blame anyone for an assault other than the assailant and anyone directly helping, on purpose. Mspec lesbians don't want other lesbians to like men! Not all mspec lesbians even like men, and no one in the community thinks those of us who don't like men should. Lesboys and male lesbians don't want to force other lesbians to date them either! They just want to be in the community with us, where they all used to belong, and they don't want to be harassed because people use an incomplete sentence for a definition to invalidate their complicated relationship with identity and their self determination that led them to feel like a lesbian

[redheadbigshoes]

Same anon who got messaged about terf rhetoric etc and like the worst thing is like. I can't openly say anything bc i feel uncomfortable and don't want to start a fight. I feel like I've cornered myself and now I'm stuck to be honest. Literally every single one of my mutuals I've had since I have been on Tumblr have decided to support mspec lesbians even though none of them are Lesbians. I've had people just randomly vent about how horribly exclusionist lesbians are though I'm a lesbian myself etc. Back then I was struggling with a lot of self hatred and internalised lesbophobia so I didnt feel like I *could* say anything but now I'm kinda stuck. It's also wild how these people would tell me their other lesbian (ex) friends got in an argument with them and broke off the friendship once they announced they identify as a lesboy and bi lesbian etc and would tell me that they're so glad I'm a good person instead etc. They make the people around them feel unsafe and invalidated yet still think they're in the right. I have been slowly putting distance between us though so I'm almost free lmao

I am so sorry you have to deal with that. They aren’t really your friends if they don’t support who you are.

You really could just block them, if you don’t feel comfortable being honest and talking about how their views are problematic and lesbophobic.

When something like this happens we usually have to think more about ourselves and our mental health, sometimes it’s not worth starting a fight if that will drain us.

They’re not only bigoted but they sound incredibly manipulative. Those are not good people to be around.

Just know there’s a bunch of people here on Tumblr fighting what these people are supporting. There’s other and better people for you to befriend, people that will actually support you and listen to you.

#stephanie answers #anon #long post #‘bi lesbians’

[rei-does-stuff]

Hi so I’ve tried to write this ask like 20 times but tumblr keeps deleting it in the middle of me writing so this is getting copy pasted from my notes app <3

So like I’m not a lesbian, much less an mspec lesbian or a male lesbian so idk how upset I’m allowed to be over the exclu scythe lesbian flag but I am upset lol

I’ll start with the scythe aspect of it. It just doesn’t look nice lol. It’s literally the most basic jpg of a scythe slapped over a color palette from the cover of the first book. Boring! I much prefer the scythegender and scythe lesbian flag you coined, bc… yk…. They were actually made by a fan of the book series! And they look better. Plus shi didn’t even spell Neal right in the tags!

Now onto the spicy discourse!

I don’t consider myself a radinclu, mainly because of certain syscoursey stuff and because people like proshippers will always try to worm their little ways into safe spaces. However, I do consider myself a supporter of all good-faith identities, and like… imo, mspec lesbians and male lesbians (unless they’re like. Literally just cis men calling themselves lesbians for the funnies) aren’t doing any harm??? Like literally, it’s JUST labels. Mspec lesbians are just people who choose to label their sexuality a bit differently, sometimes for simplicity’s sake, sometimes as an identity. Male lesbians are mostly transmasc or non-binary people who just don’t want to label their attraction as straight for one reason or another, from what I’ve gathered! And that’s completely valid! You made a really good post about this on your main, but like. Non-binary really isn’t just women-lite, you have to support ALL non-binary lesbians or you support none of them. You can be male-presenting and identify as a lesbian, because literally NO ONE other than chronically online people give a shit! I’ve heard the argument so many times that “male lesbians and mspec lesbians are ERASING the oppression that REAL lesbians face!” And like. Like I said before, most male lesbians are either transmasc or non-binary. Not cis men calling themselves lesbians for no reason. How is a non-binary person or a transmasc person identifying as a lesbian reading your oppression? Unless they pass as male VERY well as male, they’re still probably going to face the same oppression that lesbians face for being a non-cis man being attracted to women or people who aren’t strictly male. There are so many reasons someone can identify as both lesbian and male, and I think that’s completely valid. I may not personally understand it (on a personal level) but it’s not  harming anyone, so it’s really none of my business! 

I also scrolled through the OP of the exclu’s Twitter and they’ve retweeted really transmasc-negative posts and while I won’t get into it bc I know you’re not a system they have some absolutely horrible system takes so like. They’re just overall a shitty person! Shop from our fandom! Scythe is for everyone!

(You dont have to answer this i just wanted to get it out lol)

Firstly, even if you’re not an Mspec lesbian or lesboy or any of that you are still 100% allowed to upset over exclus stuff, exclus hurt everyone!!

And yeah!! My guess is that they looked at the first cover of the first book and based it off that, without actually reading the book at all, and as scythe is a MASSIVE special interest of mine it did tick me off a lottttt, I get it was a request but still :/ thanks for the compliment on my flag tho <33

And you don’t have to label yourself a radinclus to support us dw, I don’t even rlly label myself as a radinclus

Also even if someone ‘passes’ really well they’ll still get a TON of hate regardless, plus passing is subjective in a lot of cases, and also if anyone says that cis men like cishet not queer in anyway MEN, can be lesbian they are probably a troll, because you cannot be a lesbian in anyway unless you are queer!

But yeah!! The whole argument is very online centric, irl queer people will not have this discourse at all,

I didn’t really look into the blog too much, I just block exclus whenever I see em, but I’m not surprised at all

Most exclus are shitty tho, and they shouldn’t be in the scythe fandom <3

#rei says stuff #ask