#zealousdreamclodwagon

[hurremshiv]

What character from GOT does Hurrem resemble? Also, how do you imagine Hurrem faring against the notable women from GOT in rivality ( Cersei, Margaery, Lady Olenna, Sansa)

In GOT I'd say she's the most like Cersei. They're both ruthless and paranoid women with internalised misogyny who are trying to protect their children. Whether from a prophecy or the fratricide law. And they both come from the same archetype of female characters (cf. Livia in I Claudius). Although there are notable differences between them. Hürrem is smarter and has more of a compassionate streak than Cersei. I've said this before, but the best way to sum up the difference between them is that where Cersei insisted that the scraps from the wedding be given to the dogs and not the smallfolk, Hürrem would not do that. Since she has more of a charitable and empathetic side because of her own experiences.

That said, overall comparing her to characters in both GOT and HOTD, I think Hürrem is the most similar to Alicent Hightower (as biased as I am because I'm a fan of both characters). They're both examples of an 'evil stepmother against the rightful heir' trope (which is a type that I think needs to be analysed rather than just accepted at face value, as antis of both characters tend to do). They both perpetuate the system they've been victimised by, while also showing some degree of empathy. They're the wives of men who abused them (yes, what Viserys did to Alicent was abuse). And while they can be toxic parents, they're both willing to put themselves in harm's way for the sake of their children.

I'm not going to compare who would win or who would lose, because I think that really depends on the situations and circumstances. The harem in Topkapi is a very different setting from Westeros.

#hürrem sultan #magnificent century #house of the dragon #answered #zealousdreamclodwagon

[mc-critical]

How do you find the relationship between each sultana from SOW and their trusted eunuchs (Hurrem&Sumbul/Nurbanu&Gazanfer/Safiye&Bulbul/Kosem&Haci/Turhan&Suleyman)? I loved Hurrem and Sumbul by S04 when he truly became devoted to her, I feel he also looked for his interest after valide's death in S03, similar to Haci somehow, but I always felt that Safiye never got that close as the other sultanas to Bulbul, or is just me or perhaps her cold personality (she loved power above all after all)

Hürrem and Sümbul is clearly the relationship that got most attention and development and it was an interesting turn in both Hürrem and Sümbul's characters. The fact that their cooperation began in the end of S02 is very fitting, because that was the season and the arc of status-quo changes, a point where they both were searching for allies. The strive of Hürrem's to find loyal servants was presented as far as the beginning of the season (and by the point Sümbül came over, she already had the first political ally in the face of Iskender Celebi) and Sümbül, who tried to be in every sultana's good graces until then, sought his interest and benefit and then the two crossed paths in a small, yet crucial moment. Their relationship did undergo an evolution: it was interesting how such a well oriented in the harem, yet servile character who was known for pleasing all the forces in the harem (SS, Valide, Mahidevran, Hürrem) and move back and forth between them, ended up becoming so loyal to one person to the point of fully bonding with them.

On one hand, Sümbül's servility is one of the things I enjoyed the most about him and I agree that S03 is the more dry part of their relationship, there it was more of a normal dynamic between a sultana and an eunich who has to fulfill her orders, so to say. Sümbül's transition to loyalty to Hürrem was more gradual: first he went with her out of necessity and not really having a choice after the convincing words of hers ("do you want to be loyal to Mahidevran and be a part of the past or do you want to be a part of the future?" or something like that), then he stayed because there was no other sultana currently residing in Topkapi and only focused on doing his duty and then he bonded with her over time. His relationship with Hürrem and S04 overall revealed a big vulnerability of his character: he had bonded to the castle, to its rules and games, to Hürrem so much that he felt miserable for betraying her secrets to the spy by mistake and for ever upsetting her, he let himself tell her that part of his story he would probably never want to recall otherwise and he couldn't handle leaving the harem and her service. Maybe he adapted so much to the system that he had to go by the waves and forget what's morally right and wrong or thought only Hürrem could understand him or how he felt, at least for a while. Hürrem also had an evolution regarding him: first I feel she treated him closer to Rüstem, demanding loyalty and obedience and only in S04 she could open up to him and fully appreciate him. I loved their calmer scenes the most (especially when they drunk coffee together 💓), these were the points they could relax and escape from the hierarchical boundaries even for a moment and they showed that they actually like to be around the other outside of orders and obligations. The scenes with Sümbül contrasted with the otherwise quite ruthless S04 Hürrem and were a good breathing room after all the tension and densely-packed plot of the season. I do really like them, this is one of Hürrem's best relationships (which far outmatched Afife and Fahriye, imo).

Nurbanu and Gazanfer are probably the dynamic most similar to Şah and Mercan (which is my favourite eunich-sultana relationship, btw, for the way they complemented each other and how unique both of their characters were) due to the unrequited love Gazanfer felt for Nurbanu and him willing to die for her. While Hürrem and Sümbül had more mutual soft spots for each other, here Gazanfer is the one with the soft spot: we see how dedicated he was from the very start. By contrast, I think Nurbanu didn't view him as so much more than her loyal, trusted aga. Not that she didn't appreciate him at all, of course, and she by no means would want to lose him and was certainly moved in a way by what he thought of her and how far he was willing to go for her, but there wasn't much of a feeling or bond concerned here, probably because of Nurbanu's colder and more pragmatic nature. For me, she was the one that bonded the least with her eunich, compared to everyone else. We didn't see all that much of them, though, and we had more usual interactions between an eunich and a sultana only with a few distinct scenes here or there, more later on than early on. Again, while Nurbanu was moved by his dedication, we saw her demanding him to quickly come to his senses for his own good and pretend everything's normal or else he may be in trouble. Nurbanu wasn't much in the mood for bigger sentiment that didn't include her love for Selim, since her arc was more about at least repressing her human principles bit by bit. (by killing Nazenin, a person who has been with her before coming to the castle, losing a precious thing to her - her dog, and then questioning whether a father could kill his son, and then motivating Selim to fight that war without so much scruples etc.) I wish we saw more of Gazanfer and her, to be honest, even though they're fine like this too.

Safiye and Bülbül are fascinating. Safiye indeed is a cold sultana, heartless to her own enemies and willing to keep her power at any cost, discarding any kind of morality or moral responsibility that comes with this power itself, but her scenes with Bülbül, along with her reaction to her children's deaths and her first scene with Hümaşah, were the more vulnerable and human parts of her character. We had scenes where she scolded him for something going wrong or when she demanded something of him, but they were as much as them looking more like close companions, compared to Safiye's other relationships. The way she talks to him outside of the times where she scolds him is just different and her appreciating so much him and his loyalty is a side she rarely shows. It's clear she cares for Bülbül and that despite of all, she has given him a reason to care. Bülbül is the eunich most attached to his sultana - look at the amount of genuine feel: he's happy for her wins and sad, devastated by her losses and while he certainly had a soft spot for Kösem, he would never give Safiye up, ever. He would always believe in her and stand for what she stood for. He cherished her with all his heart and that is moving, this guy has a heart of gold and he should get all the happiness he deserves and get out of this horrible harem!!

I always viewed Haci and Kösem as the relationship most built by time. It's like in the end, Kösem is glad he's with her for all these years and the fact that in the end it was Haci that stayed with Kösem when even Kemankeş refused to go through poisoning the little Mehmed in the finale (though his loyalty to her, to the real her never wavered), was also meaningful for me in the way that Haci has accepted to be with her until the end, no matter what she did. What's unique about both of them is Haci being more of a voice of experience for Kösem. He would be there to recall the past since he has seen nearly everything in this harem. (like he did once recall Handan's fate) He is a person that would seek interest like everyone else, of course, in S01, but he did have a loyalty before Kösem, to Handan and he was moving to Kösem when that was gone. I don't think she began to trust Haci in S01 all the sudden, but by S02 we saw the mutual trust they shared. Kösem could also be calm and laid back with him, I feel she could forget about her problems for a bit in his company.

I don't have much to say about Turhan and Süleyman. Just like everything with her and her character, I couldn't feel any sort of emotion and it was all about the facade of hers she had to keep for a goal. She was relying on him to do his duty and be loyal to her and that's it. I couldn't see anything genuine in her. Süleyman himself seemed glad to fulfill her every need and was considerate with her, but that's about it. Their dynamic was underdeveloped, even though the interactions they had were not so little. It was still close to a functional dynamic when it comes to Turhan.

#magnificent century #muhteşem yüzyıl #muhtesem yuzyil #magnificent century: kösem #magnificent century kösem #magnificent century kosem #hurrem sultan #nurbanu sultan #safiye sultan #kosem sultan #turhan sultan #sumbul aga #gazanfer aga #haci aga #suleyman aga #ask #zealousdreamclodwagon

[ottomanladies]

Do you think Nurbanu had the same personality as Turhan? A lot of sources agree that Turhan never seemed like a threat in Kosem’s eyes and I have a feeling the same way Nurbanu behaved towards Hurrem, like a total darling who actually wanted to have the power. How ironic that Nurbanu died in 1583 as the first valide powerful and Turhan in 1683 ( just wanted to point it out)

I... don’t think that Nurbanu had much of a relationship with Hürrem, to be honest. While it’s true that Hürrem routinely visited her sons in their provinces, she probably just checked - with the harem stewardess - that everything was in order. Also, Nurbanu was “a nobody” when Hürrem was still alive; she was just a concubine. Mother of Selim’s only son, alright, but Selim’s chances to get on the throne at the time were very slim so I doubt that Nurbanu had already planned that ahead

well, that’s very curious! I have never noticed that (but I’m awful at remembering dates.... yikes)

#anon #ask post #ask: ottoman history #haseki hurrem sultan #nurbanu sultan #zealousdreamclodwagon

[fy-magnificentcentury]

Do you think Suleyman truly loved Firuze? Had she not been a spy, I wonder if he would have loved her more than Hurrem at one point

nah, firuze only was the new ‘exotic’ thing in his harem, eventually suleyman would’ve been tired of her too. he only loved hurrem (in his own fucked up way i must say), but their relationship was in another stage, they wouldn’t be lovebirds madly in love with each other forever.

btw, the firuze plot was so useless to me, there was enough drama with hurrem and ibrahim to add yet another woman to ‘defeat’ hurrem.

#answered #zealousdreamclodwagon

[hurremshiv]

Show wise, would Halime be more reasonable without Dilruba’s influence? It always appears that her daughter goes the extra mile and I doubt Halime would have died like that if she agreed to Kosem’s terms (and she intially wanted to do that)

Honestly I think Halime was significantly more reasonable than Dilruba. It's telling to me that she is horrified and angry when she learns that Dilruba planned to kill all of Kösem's children. She doesn't have the same blind hatred towards her that Dilruba does.

I'm not sure exactly what terms you mean (since I haven't watched season 1 in over a year now), but if I'm assuming this is about the agreement they made when Mustafa first became Sultan, things would have been significantly different if she had kept to the agreement since that was a source of conflict for the rest of season 1. Ultimately though I think it was Osman's death that doomed Halime and Dilruba. Since that was what Kösem wanted revenge for.

#halime sultan #dilruba sultan #magnificent century: kösem #magnificent century #answered #zealousdreamclodwagon

[hurremshiv]

Is Gulnihal to Hurrem what Cennet is to Safiye? I wonder if Gulnihal would have betrayed Hurrem at some point because she ruined her life

I mean Cennet was never a romantic rival to Safiye. She was a romantic rival to Halime who Safiye thought was too ambitious. So she burned her face and let Halime take the blame. So that's one difference.

The other thing is that the betrayal on Cennet's part came just as much from the revelation that she had been deceived and her life wasted being loyal to the woman who had done that to her. Gülnihal knew it was Hürrem who did that to her. And Hürrem apologised and they made up afterwards. Not to mention that Cennet's life was ruined far more than Gülnihal's. She had to become a kalfa because of what had happened to her whereas Gülnihal still managed to get out by being married. So she wasn't ruined enough to not be seen as a marriage prospect at least.

I guess the point is that Gülnihal is a saint who the show never deserved, much less Hürrem. And that Cennet deserved to reclaim her life.

#magnificent century: kösem #magnificent century #answered #zealousdreamclodwagon

[hurremshiv]

I loved Anastasia and Ahmed, but not so much Beren Kosem and Ahmed to be honest. Kosem was a widow from such a young age so the plot of finding love in another man’s arms comes only naturally, and gosh Kemankes was perfect for her. I feel for a woman of her status it only comes naturally that she could open more to someone inferior to her.

Honestly I enjoyed both relationships. Kösem and Ahmet had issues in season 1 (like when he abandoned her when she was pregnant with Mehmet for a silly reason). But even then in the end she still got to communicate with him. Which is far more than could be said of Süleyman. As for Kösem and Kemankeş I agree. Her falling in love again makes sense since she's not aro. And the way they both cared about each other was sweet.

#kösem sultan #magnificent century: kösem #magnificent century #answered #zealousdreamclodwagon

[hurremshiv]

I honestly consider the blood argument so cringey, and I don't understand if they had such a problem with the whole a slave runs the harem why didn't they marry show wise Suleyman to a foreign princess and thus maintain the line "pure", I mean Mahi was also a slave so one way or the other a slave was next in the succession but for them it sounds implausible even tho that's the way the harem operates, and I will leave it at that

I think they just expected the slave women to know their place and not have any type of ambition that would threaten them. They didn’t think that deeply about it.

#magnificent century #answer #zealousdreamclodwagon

[hurremshiv]

Is Turhan basically Nurbanu, Halime and Safiye combined?

Turhan is more like Safiye but she doesn't have the development, characterisation, elegance or flair that made Safiye so iconic. Turhan was only there for 4 episodes and so just didn't get to be nearly as developped as the others. We didn't get as much of an insight into her psychology or backstory at all in the same way as we did for the rest. I really wished she had been introduced earlier. For someone who was so pivotal she really could have stood to have had more of a character arc.

#turhan sultan #magnificent century: kösem #magnificent century #answered #zealousdreamclodwagon

[hurremshiv]

How different and not so different would things be if the fraticide did not exist? So basically one prince becomes sultan the other governors in other regions similar to other cultures? On one hand, it would certainly ease most of the anxieties of the show, and perhaps Hurrem would not be as desperate to destroy all her love rivals and suffer from Stockholm syndrome. On the other hand, I still think she would do everything rightfully to place one of her sons on the throne,.

I mean Hürrem is an interesting case. Because her actions are informed both by the fratricide law and by her trauma. While the fratricide law is one symptom of the toxicity of the system, there is a lot more to it than that.

I think most of the abuse that she received would have still happened. Even if just the fratricide law was gone. And so that would have still contributed to her ruthless and vindictive sides. Particularly against Ibrahim and the Valide Sultan. And this would have contributed to the breakdown of her friendship with Hatice.

That said, I don't think that she would have gone against Mustafa nearly as much as she did. Without it I don't see Mahidevran trying to convince Mustafa to kill his brothers in episode 55, I don't see the Efsun or Gülezar incidents happening (because the fratricide law was Hürrem's sole motive for both of those) and neither do I see Amasyagate or Mehmet's death happening. The only times she goes after Mustafa for purely vengeful reasons are in the wake of Mehmet's death. And the final plot to kill Mustafa comes about specifically because the janissaries want Selim dead, and so if they bring Mustafa to power pose a direct threat to her kids' lives (as they would probably pressure him into fulfilling the fratricide law). There's a reason why the 'If only you were my son' scene is timed when it is.

If the fratricide law wasn't there, either Mustafa or Mehmet would have been Sultan with Mahidevran or Hürrem as his respective Valide. And the other princes would have probably been safe.

#magnificent century #answered #zealousdreamclodwagon

[hurremshiv]

What if Raziye was Firuze's daughter? How would the plot evolve?

It would reinforce Firuze's power and presence as a rival to Hürrem and consolidate the alliance surrounding her. That said, it wouldn't be as much of a victory as a son would. Hürrem would probably keep trying to kill or otherwise get rid of both Firuze and Raziye though. That said, come episode 76 this would probably force Süleyman to marry Firuze as well as Hürrem. Although since Süleyman never fully fell out of love with Hürrem, I can see his love for her having more staying power than his love for Firuze.

#firuze hatun #raziye sultan #magnificent century #answered #zealousdreamclodwagon

[hurremshiv]

Hello! How different do you consider the love story between Hurrem and Suleyman compared to Nurbanu and Selim? Hurrem never states that she cares more about power, whereas Nurbanu at the end of the season already dreams herself a valide.

The thing is, Hürrem and Nurbanu are both ambitious and also genuinely love Süleyman and Selim. Hürrem says things like 'What is the harem? I will rule the world.' and clearly relishes her power and influence. But at the same time she does love Süleyman and she is loyal to him. And she uses that loyalty to her and her kids' advantage. I do think their relationship is toxic though. The way he treats her is abusive. As I've explained here.

Meanwhile, Nurbanu is ambitious as well. Even from the beginning she wants to emulate Hürrem and schemes to get herself into Selim's harem because he's going to Manisa. That said, she also does genuinely love him. He saved her life. And she is deeply protective of him and Murad. Which is one of the motivations that fuels her schemes and her determination that Selim should win and take power. They still have toxicity in their relationship (she manipulates him and he will not see why she gets upset when he's with Dilşah) but their far more on the same page in terms of scheming. Also Nurbanu does genuinely encourage him and hype him up.

#hürrem sultan #nurbanu sultan #magnificent century #answered #zealousdreamclodwagon

[hurremshiv]

What if Nazenin gave birth to a boy? It is just too ridiculous to imagine that a toddler would be the new competitot for the throne.

Btw, I also think Suleyman acted so strange in this arc I mean does he not realise that more babies would just result in more suffering due to the fraticide

The baby wouldn't have been a serious contender I agree. Honestly the show was in general so blind to what more children meant. The show has convenient amnesia as far as the fratricide law is concerned. Especially in the later seasons. This is also shown by the general idea that Mustafa could have protected his brothers (he couldn't have), Hatice's encouragement of Firuze to have a son just to get back at Hürrem (just why? Hatice - who cares about her family - should be cognizant of what that means), the way the only nephew Fatma may as well have is Mustafa. As far as Süleyman's concerned he had cheated on Hürrem before and made no effort to change the law. even though he knew about it. So he must have just not cared enough. It's easier to blame Hürrem or Mahidevran than himself for things that were in his control but not theirs I guess.

#magnificent century #answered #zealousdreamclodwagon

[hurremshiv]

Do you think Suleyman would have truly replaced Hurrem with Firuze at some point, or was Hurrem's position truly challenged by her?

I think there was definitely the chance that that could have happened, although it wouldn't have been assured. She was absolutely the person who came the closest to replacing Hürrem. She challenged their relationship and Hürrem's position more than any other concubine. She almost took away the Thursday night from Hürrem and Süleyman even nearly married her. She loved music and poetry. She was pleasant, intelligent and entertaining. All of which were qualities Süleyman admired and also parallelled Hürrem strongly.

That said, there's a reason why he dismissed her on that Thursday night. And why he chose not to marry her. And it's that what he felt for her wasn't the same as what he felt for Hürrem. And as much as he could be oblivious, inconsiderate and genuinely abusive to Hürrem, going so far to replace her was a step too far. Even for him. In those two moments, the reflection of Hürrem's sadness in the mirror and her begging him and reminding him what marrying someone else could mean for the future of her children reminded him of what was at stake for her too. And he couldn't do something that hurtful to her.

#hürrem sultan #firuze hatun #magnificent century #answered #zealousdreamclodwagon

[hurremshiv]

What is your stance on how Safiye speaks greatly of Hurrem and Nurbanu even tho her mother in law made her life a living nightmare, while Kosem never mentions her predecessors? I think it represents a step of maturity from Safiye, but I am interested in the meaning of this, especially why Kosem never mentions the past at all

The thing is, Safiye has a skewed version of who these women were. Particularly Hürrem. She saw the cruelty, power and beauty of Nurbanu but wasn't there to see the struggles who made her who she was. And she never even met Hürrem. So her understanding of who she was comes from Mihrimah and Nurbanu. And while Nurbanu was very similar to Hürrem in a lot of ways and Mihrimah was the closest of her siblings to her mother, they don't form an accurate representation of who Hürrem was. Safiye lionises Hürrem's power and ruthlessness without understanding the complex human being who Hürrem was. Both she and Mihrimah essentially girlbossify her.

As for Kösem, she does mention the past in season 2. She's very much haunted by it. But it's something she wants to move on from and forget. She doesn't talk about Safiye very much aside from calling her cruel and being horrified by the suggestion that she's becoming like her. And she doesn't talk about Halime either. Other than that, when Kösem remembers the past it's recalling the pain she's been through. Like Mehmet and Ahmet's deaths. It's not something she wants to think about. It seems that remembering is probably too much for her. It's like she represses the past. Just as the palace keeps Mustafa in the kafes. His madness and trauma have to be hidden away and repressed. Out of sight, out of mind.

#magnificent century: k��sem #magnificent century #answered #zealousdreamclodwagon

[hurremshiv]

What’s the craziest intrigue in MY? For me it has to be Sah Sultana creating a fake scenario in which Suleyman was ambushed, Mustafa was ready to take the throne all to pressure Hurrem to put bayazid on the throne. This could have ended up bloody with bayezid executed and yet Sah did it just like that like wow that was cold as fuck. This is why she if my favorite sister

Agreed. That showcased how different Şah was from Hatice. She was much, cleverer, more creative and more ruthless. And that was what made her such a formidable opponent to Hürrem.

#magnificent century #answered #zealousdreamclodwagon