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dextixer · 1 month

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The hypocritical Woobification of Raven Branwen

I dont think it is a secret to anyone who has followed any RWBY discourse, that female characters are treated VERY differently from male ones in the wider fandom, especially in regards to the morality of their actions. I dare anyone who wishes to enter the words like "Raven" "Ironwood" "Adam" "Cinder: and the like into the search bar of websites like twitter and even Reddit to some extent. What you will find more often than not, besides fan-art and porn are discussions about these characters.

After browsing through these discussions one can quickly notice a pattern. Ironwood and Adam are either demonized or have complicated discussions surrounding them. While characters like Raven and Cinder, while having their detractors mostly have discussions focused on shipping or on justifying/excusing their actions.

Raven Branwen is of course, the most iconic example of this.

Raven Branwen in Canon

In the canon of RWBY, Raven Branwen and her brother Qrow both hail from a bandit tribe. They were sent to Beacon to learn how to kill hunters where they learn the values of family and friendship, with team STRQ becoming close. Raven even marries Tai, her teammate and has a kid with him, then ditches him with the child and leaves Summer to come into the picture while Qrow remains an eternal bachelor.

It is revealed to us that Ozpins tendency to keep secrets is what lead Raven to losing trust and leaving the side of good. That, and feat of Salem who she knows is immortal and thus cannot be killed directly.

She returns to her bandit tribe and becomes a bandit queen, killing entire villages for loot and plunder. One of which we can see in the show.

Her becoming a bandit is not something that was thrust upon her, she was not forced to do it or anything of the sort. She chose to do it under her own volition.

Her only "redeeming" point is not being allied to Salem and having a "I will save you once" rule with those she knows and nothing more.

And yet...

Raven Branwen in Fanon

If we were to follow the most common discussions of Fanon then Raven is a tragic lesbian who could never be with Summer, a mother who understood her limits and wanted her daughter to have a better life than with her and who was forced into the position of providing for her tribe and had absolutely no choice but to raid villages for survival of her poor tribe.

If people arent thirsting over Raven herself and or her "romance" with Summer then one can always find many excuses and people calling her a "tragic" and "understandable" figure. They will say that "Shes not perfect" and things like that when in reality, Raven Branwen is just a straight up evil person in the story. Complicated? Yes. Evil? Also yes.

Her only saving grace is that most of the time she is not an antagonist. And she is not related to Salem and in fact would oppose her if she wasnt a coward. And yet, her actions, her being a literal murderous bandit seem to be ignored by a lot of the fandom.

The same fandom that will give shit to Ironwood for bringing 3 airships to Vale and calling it a "military occupation" and Adam wanting to blow up a train (with its crew) will then turn around and pretend that Raven killing innocent villages for shits and giggles on her own volition never happened.

They will cry about how Ironwood and Adam never deserved redemption! How they are deeply evil and have always been deeply evil people, while convincing everyone that Raven is perfect for redemption and was just "forced" to be a bandit queen.

The hypocricy of the RWBY FNDM is staggering, but not news.

What is worse however is how Raven is seemingly receiving the same if not even faster way of redemption that Emerald has. By now most people have probably seen both the RWBY:Beyond first episode and of course the ending animatic. And who else is there in Vacuo if not Raven. Shes just there. Like she just belongs amongst the heroes despite being a literal BANDIT QUEEN.

Despite Ironwood and Adam turning evil they had a good cause at the end of the day. A cause they wanted to fight for.

And instead the people praise and want the redeption of a terrorist who worked for Salem and a literal bandit queen, both of whom did the things they did out of selfish needs? Seriously?

Whats worse is that it seems that CRWBY is more than okay with that. It seems that this is at least currently one of their goals. Which to me is just staggering.

Conclussion i guess

Sorry for the ranty nature of this post. I know that im preaching to the choir but i just needed to get this out of my chest after seeing 10000000000000 posts about Raven and Summer fucking on twitter. Because yeah, THATS Ravens most identifying feature, being a girlkisser. After fucking years of being called a fascist and a bootliker for simply saying that Ironwoods heel turn was shittily done and that SOME of his plans were good it fucking maddens me to see people simp for a literal BANDIT QUEEN without push-back.

#rwby #rwde #rwby discourse #rwby discussion #rwby fandom #rwby fndm

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wander-wren · 4 months

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you know, i have a cool warrior cats name concept that i’m probably never going to get to write into a fic, because i have so much else to do that wc is indefinitely on the back burner, and even the fic i have the idea for would take….a long time to develop (it’s overwriting epitaphs, part, uh…6? 7? so)

but i want the masses to know about it, so here we go!

this sprung from the base idea of forming leader names with star as a title, rather than a suffix, ie star fireheart, star mistyfoot, etc. i dont know if i got that from someone else’s warriors au (i’ve seen it a few different times), or came up with it independently. i’ve been sitting on this for a long time.

anyway, i was thinking about how nice that formation sounded in my brain for many months, but i didnt know what to do with it. then i thought about medieval/anthro aus, and how those sorts of characters always seem to introduce themselves with either a title or a “son of [name]” or both.

so, i decided to combine the two and have a system where cats put their mother’s prefix ahead of their name like a title. for example, this would lead to a family line going Sand Squirrelflight -> Squirrel Lionblaze -> Cinder Fernsong -> Ivy Bristlefrost. cats would always introduce themselves like this to strangers, would use the titles for higher-ranked cats out of respect even if they knew them well (less commonly in their own clan, but still regularly), and would use the titles in any formal ceremonies.

“wait, but leafpool is lionblaze’s mom” yes, let’s discuss rules and exceptions!

so in warrior cats universe the mother is the much more important/present parent 95% of the time, so her prefix should always be used, not the father’s. however, if a cat does not know their biological mother’s name or does not consider her important enough to them (like a death in childbirth or loner abandonment situation), they can then take the prefix of their next-closest parent(al figure). if they don’t consider any specific cat worthy of that position, they take the prefix of the leader. for example, i don’t think fireheart knew his mom’s name, so he would be Blue Fireheart. they have to decide at their apprentice ceremony, though it’s not really a “decision;” the leader will only take their opinion into account if it is an aforementioned gray area.

this is very, very strict among the clans. family lines are already taken seriously in the books; in a world where this was normal, it would be even more serious. you can’t just decide that you don’t like your mom in a fit of teen angst and become Lark Nightheart. first of all, any cat in another clan who knew you or your parents would immediately know your family drama, and second, your clanmates would not allow/use it, generally. it is far more about who your mom is biologically than who you feel is worthy, which is why i was specific with my caveats above. someone like crookedstar (crookedjaw, rather) could make a compelling case for switching from Rain to Shell, though it would probably still be hotly debated in the clan.

i imagine jayfeather, lionblaze, and leafpool, being in a weird, unique situation, would’ve been allowed to choose which prefix to take. in the gap between the fire scene and learning leafpool is their mom, they wouldn’t have had the option to not be titled, though i imagine none of them were super thrilled to keep using “squirrel.” i wonder how fireheart might have felt if they took his prefix? i wonder if any of them (hollyleaf?) took “bramble” in solidarity with him also not knowing the secret? very messy. i wonder what they all settled on after the leafpool part came out. it’s not something i’ve speculated on too much.

jayfeather, at least, doesn’t have to worry about it, because i also decided while writing this that medicine cats get a separate title like leaders: moon, for the moonstone. this is because all of them are separated from their kin and become family to the whole clan; their connection to starclan matters more than their blood. so, Moon Jayfeather.

and yes, this would do even more to reinforce xenophobia, and likely cats would weaponize it that way. as delightful as it is to think that this gives us “Princess Cloudtail,” it would make him stand out from the others for the rest of his life. he could use “brindle” or “blue,” of course, but given the canon emphasis on his kittypet status i don’t see it happening.

so, wait, what happens in overwriting epitaphs part 6 to cause this system to come into play?

well, i want to write a sort of pyrrhic victory in the great battle. the clans win, but at the cost of about 3/4 of their population. the remaining cats coalesce into one clan, and a lot of cultural shifts happen.

this one starts as a combo of getting used to new clanmates and remembering the dead; family is one of the first things cats talk about. perhaps you’ve been under a rock and don’t know breezepelt. well, his parents are crowfeather and nightcloud. ah, the cats from the journey, interesting. it’s a little out there, forgive me, but i imagine this morphing into cats automatically including family when they introduce each other, which becomes putting your parents names before your own in a sort of casual way, like “yeah, let’s get that whole song and dance out of the way and move on with the convo.” or, again, in a spiritual honoring the dead way. i suppose it would depend who is left alive and how religious the clan still is after the whole ordeal.

somewhere in there, mistystar (the one surviving leader, you go girl) decides to change her name to mistyfoot, to put herself on more even footing with her warriors, which gets turned into Star Mistyfoot to keep some of the respect/separation in it. that leads to, slowly, the other titles forming, probably first among cats who only had one known/important parent to start with (Daisy Mousewhisker, for example. just take out a comma). and voilà, new tradition.

(all the way at the end, i realized that some cats are gay or trans. in that case, kits would take the prefix of whichever parent did more of the birthing/nursing/kit-rearing. it might also be possible to hyphenate, but again i imagine it would be frowned upon just for breaking tradition, and because it could just sound like a warrior name if you said it fast. but i could get behind Tawny-Rowan Tigerheart, because i believe in trans rowanclaw and they’re both pretty close to their kids.)

#bird noises #warrior cats #i’m far too lazy to tag

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bestworstcase · 1 year

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Maybe I'm looking at this differently, but I feel like a point about this discussion about Salem really just drives home how reductive the mentality behind "cool story, still murder" really is, and of the need to "punish" them regardless of the complexity of the circumstances, and regardless of the full context.

Like, forgive me if I'm misunderstanding or phrasing this poorly, but to me a large part of the series highlighted the fundamentally complex ways in how one can sink into evil. With Ozpin sinking into it without even realizing it because of his devotion to a cruel manipulative god contrasting his deeply buried love for his anti-god ex-wife, Adam sinking into evil because his bloodlust and need to satiate his cruelty against his enemies that overwhelmed whatever desire for justice he might have once had, Ironwood sinking into evil because he's utterly lacking in any self-awareness and needs to satiate his egotistical fantasy and inability to recognize his own fascistic indoctrination...

And Salem stands out when you think about it because the prior characters fell into evil by a complex network of choices, of compromises driven by an unwillingness to re-evaluate their actions, trapping them into a downward spiral that they can't drag themselves out of. Salem, if your thesis is accurate...is basically something of an anomaly because a large part of the problem ISN'T her choice. She was driven there because everyone else decided she was the villain even when she was trying NOT to be. It doesn't justify the evil things she did do, but I feel like that difference is important somehow.

And in that sense, if she does ultimately make the choice to ask for aid (even if she needs prodding from an outside source, or if there's evidence of it being beneficial to her), what would it prove for her to be "proven in the wrong" anyways? Ironwood was proven wrong because he refused to STOP being wrong, as was Adam. Ozpin is in the middle of being dragged out of being wrong and recognizing the flaws of his mandate and the world he's created in the pursuit of his mission, even if they haven't quite gotten there yet. A large part of the story is how important our choices are, and that we always have, and should have the right to turn back away from bad choices, even if it means having to confront the damage we caused in the process.

So to just reduce Salem's story to "cool story, still murder" just feels reductive, and essentially taking away her autonomy again for the sake of the satisfaction of the audience.

Like, sorry if what I said made absolutely no sense, I'm having a hard time getting my thoughts out right.

no yeah i think you nailed it. salem clung to being good for way longer and through way more profoundly awful circumstances than could reasonably be expected of anybody, until ozma put her in a position where she can either… become a willing participant in her own increasingly exorbitant punishment, or embrace the scapegoating and refashion that role into an aegis; being the evil witch keeps her safe by prohibiting the fulfillment of the mandate. and… there’s some oddities in the outward facing surface that i do think are best interpreted as deliberate masking, as playing to the expectations of the part. the way she slumps and pulls into herself after the grandiose little speech in 6.4, for example. the… everything about the fight in 8.9 is bizarre if salem intends to recapture the kids but makes perfect sense as a ploy to let her lieutenant’s kid go unharmed without tipping her hand. and then there’s the thing where if summer really is a turncoat who joined salem, then the remark salem makes about her in 7.11 is a bit of verbal sleight of hand that leads ruby to the incorrect conclusion that salem killed her mother. so there is this subtle element of Performance, very similar to the performative mimicry we see more clearly with cinder (which is sort of funny, in that cinder’s mimicry of salem’s mannerisms might just be one performance imitating another.)

and like if salem’s villainy is a performative role she has taken up out of, predominantly, desperation and resigned certainty that this is the only way to protect herself from the gods because no one else is willing to help her, then… what ‘proving her wrong’ entails is helping her. further punishment or condemnation only confirms and reinforces her understanding of the world and how it will treat her irrespective of her actions, entrenching the problem further—in this she is, again, very similar to cinder—and doing fuck all to prevent her from continuing to hurt people in the future. is it more important to win symbolic moral victories by telling her off, or resolve the problem by allowing her to leave it behind? does avenging the past matter more than healing the present and creating a better future? etc.

similarly i don’t think salem is going to be “”redeemed“” by purging her of grimm corruption or whatever, because the dehumanizing rhetoric used to scapegoat her is predicated on her ostensible corruption and if her acceptance is predicated on its purification then that… er, proves her right. if being treated like a person is contingent not on her actions but on whether or not she looks human enough then nothing she does matters at all, and she has no reason to change now that she’s been “”saved;“” she’ll always know that her humanity might be stripped away again at any moment, for any reason, putting her right back at square one. it’s a very hollow and cynical way of dealing with her. (and with cinder. cinder is a repetition of salem in a lot of ways and nearly everything that can be said of salem applies to her as well.)

this is also something rwby illustrates symbolically through the device of salem’s hitherto fruitless search for the crown of choice: she begins her campaign for the relics by going after choice, and almost a year later she has yet to discover its location because ozpin took special care to hide it in a way she didn’t expect and can’t unravel. laying aside the fun puzzle box of why he might be so uniquely determined to keep the crown out of her hands versus the other three, the overt symbolism here is that salem lacks meaningful choice because it is deliberately withheld from her and she is resolute on taking it back, by any means necessary. it is not accidental that the agents she applies to this problem are 1. the maiden of choice who was a slave and yearns for freedom and safety, which she understands to mean power, and (likely) 2. the turncoat who broke beneath the crushing weight of being the pure heroic savior. both salem and cinder, and i suspect this’ll apply to summer too, are looking for agency in a world that denied it to them.

“cool motive, still murder” pithily gestures at the moral principle that people are still responsible for their actions even when bad things happened to them—but on the other hand moral absolutism is not helpful in circumstances where the only way to be good is to tolerate grievous harm to yourself or actively participate in your own abuse. cinder is i think the clearest illustration of the dilemma, because a huntsman—the living embodiment of what “goodness” looks like, in the society ozma has constructed—tells her explicitly that killing the woman who put a shock collar on her is wrong and that she must instead remain in this situation for seven more years while he trains her in secret to give her a chance to earn her freedom by passing the entrance exams for the huntsman academies. she is told, overtly, that the only way to be good is to accept being tortured every day. in salem’s story the imposition of that moral is subtler but no less inescapable. and this is the context in which both characters are selfish—if they do not care about themselves and prioritize their own safety above everything else, no one else will, and the abuse they suffer will continue forever. under such circumstances selflessness is not a virtue—it’s self-destructive, ruinous.

(ozma is a case study of that.)

if the goal is to prove salem wrong, or prove cinder wrong—and it should be, because the way the two of them view themselves and the world is incredibly warped—then the proof must be that the world can receive them with kindness. in order for the violence and destruction they author to be unnecessary the possibility that they can be safe and free without ripping it bodily out of an uncaring world needs to exist, and so far it… really doesn’t seem to, yet. this is the main reason i’m thinking that their villain -> hero arcs are going to be intertwined and interdependent; they both need variations on the same thing and are best positioned out of anyone in the cast to offer that to each other, salem by willingly relinquishing her control over cinder, already begun through her surrender of the power struggle in V8, and cinder by engaging with salem as a person rather than a devil-or-divine rorschach test, also already begun, in that she is increasingly thinking of salem as a rival and peer.

#but yeah the ‘selfish tantrum-throwing spoiled bitch’ reading of salem is reductive to the point of absurdity #and also just. not at all in line with how she acts lol #also sidebar people should maybe not be uncritically adopting a moral ethos #founded on a pithy one-liner from the wholesome copaganda show lol

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onewomancitadel · 1 year

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is it just a coincidence that the madame and her two daughters who tormented cinder have blonde hair and blue eyes like jaune does

Character design is very deliberate. It's communicating a lot visually, making you draw subconscious connections. I initially predicted Blake/Yang on the basis that their eyes (the window to the soul)/Aura are matching, which in a setting where your soul ~has a special colour and everyone's named after a colour~ seems like a big deal. It's not lost on me that this is true for other pairings such as Ruby/Oscar (silver/gold, but also her red Aura/his green Aura) and Ren/Nora (pink/blue). I'm not sure if this holds true for Emerald/Mercury (red/grey) but they do have the matchy-matchy of black and white, so maybe it's not a hard-and-fast rule. Anyway, point being I'm looking for matchy-matchy.

Blake looks like Raven.

I'm not saying anything Oedipal is going on here, but I am saying that inherited conflicts are redeemed through the romances, and if Yang has problems with her mother, her love interest (who also runs away) kind of looking like her (and then later lopping off her hair so she doesn't) probably isn't an accident.

I'm aware that you have sent three different sets of anonymous asks to me disputing that Blake/Yang was never intended to be canon and 'reeks of direction change' (and similarly you dispute Ren/Nora), but there's no way I can answer this question without drawing reference from indisputable canon romances, irrespective of my personal feelings about them. If you can't accept the patterning of the given canon romances, there is absolutely no foundation to discuss Jaune/Cinder, and frankly I'd question why you think the ship has any basis in canon anyway if you don't have basic trust in the storytelling. But I'm still willing to answer this question because I think it's interesting and with drawing on the other canonical romances and Ozlem I think there is intentional patterning going on here.

It's no accident that Jaune doesn't just have the blond hair/blue eyes combo like Madame and the sisters but also like Salem's original human form, which your average literalist would erroneously take to mean he's related to her, but in my books I think it's more symbolically related to the fact that if this is the given conflict for Cinder (being tormented), drawing visual allegory to someone who's not going to give up on her and is not going to hurt her and is central to her redemption is pretty clever.

Personally I feel it goes back to that the cure is also sort of the poison, it's the thematic idea of the wound that can be healed only by the weapon that dealt it.

On the other hand, between Cinder and Ruby alone they basically have the same haircut and are going on the same emotional journey. So they're sort of the 'same' person symbolically (which Jungian-wise make sense, as Cinder is her Shadow). But they're also too alike in that in any given position in the story, neither one is really interested in knowing who the other truly is (because they refuse to interrogate themselves/understand themselves/accept pain/joy). So the question is how you make those two meet in the middle, and Cinder can't really do that until she confronts the reality of her own situation, and the same is true of Ruby (which is why this development with her across this volume is so calculated). Cue Jaune.

Anyway, my point is that if the character design is intentional, that Jaune is effectively a bright, pretty version does say some things to me. Some very specific things. This is why I can't really parse where Jaune/Weiss or any other Jaune pairing figures in, because it basically breaks a majority of the storytelling, but further to that kind of makes some of the character design nonsensical lol. It makes it feel a lot less intentional anyway. Cinder's orange eye is perfectly complementary to his blue; this is an early point you can find I made a few years ago on my blog and I have some old tags which discuss the subject further, but it's pretty straightforward. If we're going by their little paint-by-numbers romantic nonsense through the RYB and RGB models, right now we've got yellow/purple (Blake/Yang), red/green (silver/gold, Ruby/Oscar), pink/green (Ren/Nora), and you'll have to forgive me but I'm wondering where the blue/orange figures in because that's the third of the RYB model. It's probably likely that I'm missing a few here off the top of my head (and I'm still somewhat uncertain about Emerald/Mercury, but they parallel Ren/Nora too much to be ignored - and there's every possibility something develops with them more clearly romantically in the future, e.g. the slow incorporation of blue with him in opposite to Emerald's red, black/white thing going on with his Aura and her clothes...) but I think it's worth making note that Jaune/Cinder is the ship which fulfills blue/orange.

So that's why I think the character design is worth paying attention to. I wouldn't put all my eggs in one basket. But I think it's very intentional, especially as to how it relates to the already given narrative set-up. To my eyes, it augments it. It's not necessarily argumentation on its own - irrespective of character design these ideas can be communicated, especially the Reverse Ozlem elements (with simple, pure cinematic paralleling it's done) - but it is definitely something that makes me suspicious and feel less like I'm making shit up. That being said, I rarely introduce this as my first point with the ship.

The refutation is the null hypothesis, which is that it means nothing. Which is not all that fun to think about, and I can't really control it from happening. I'd rather try to reason now, because I think expecting better is not a regrettable practice; having actual substantial trust in a story is not embarrassing. That's the risk inherent to speculating about Jaune/Cinder, one supposes.

So it is a bit of a strange one, because I think it's sort of offputting to some to consider, but I think thematically it does make sense (the pain of being truly alive, the poison is the cure). At a minimum it makes you think about Jaune in the context of people who've really hurt Cinder, and then makes you wonder why he would have anything to do with that.

Thanks for your ask.

#seraphina's asks #user: megashadowdragon #knightfall #paint by numbers with RWBY #I have a tag for it somewhere I need to fix it all lol #seraphina ruminates over V9 #rwby9

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ausp-ice · 2 years

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A redesign of one of my Edeia! Crown, any pronouns, with the Idea of Uncaging - essentially, overcoming, surpassing, or otherwise destroying restraints on one's self, particularly those that limit free expression of self or identity. Edeia Site | Edeia Discord | Personal Website

Name: Crown Idea: Uncaging (essentially, overcoming, surpassing, or otherwise destroying restraints on one's self, particularly those that limit free expression of self or identity) Gender: Nonbinary Pronouns: any Masterlist: #108

About Aren't you tired of being nice? Don't you just wanna let loose?

Crown absolutely detests the idea of anyone doing anything against their will. They believe that everyone should be able to pursue their own happiness - so long as doing so doesn't harm others - and they do not have positive opinions of anyone who controls others, whether intentionally or not.

They are very confident and self-assured, though they can also be rather impulsive. They have thick skin - insults or mean things said to them hardly affect them at all. They are very blunt and assertive, and while they try to remain respectful of others, sometimes this means pushing someone out of their comfort zone so that they can reach a better state of existence. If they have something to say, they will say it very directly without beating around the bush. They are quite dramatic and enjoys "theatrics" and likes to play up their "presentation." They do not express anything ungenuine, however.

When they were Muted Crown, they were rather short-tempered and fairly easily incensed. They were also much more careful with and considerate of others, even if they did not like them. Now, they still are not at all malicious, but their words can be cutting and harsh at times.

Abilities Repression Sensing: Crown can sense things that are causing repression in others, whether internal or external.

Strength to Overcome: They can give people the strength to face the things that repress them, whatever they are - whether that strength is internal/emotional or external, such as granting the ability to temporarily use a specific kind of magic that will help the person free themselves. When that magic is no longer needed or when Crown decides to take it back, then the abilities gradually vanish. The more magic Crown grants, the weaker they become (i.e. less energy and focus). This may lead to them "napping" randomly, including sometimes popping in front of their friends and conking out.

Moments of Realization: They can cause a sort of realization that someone is repressed - for example, if someone is going on autopilot in some unhappy situation, Crown's proximity can cause a feeling like waking up, like "what am I doing?" Or something along those lines.

Abstraction Crown's Abstraction consists of a shifting black mass in a bright white space. The black mass typically has a part that resembles a castle, which can be entered and has many different rooms that they can enter and "summon" at will.

Some parts may also "drip" downwards to resemble stalacites. The mass when touched feels completely solid, but can shift in ways that don't seem physically possible right under your hands. Black cinders drift through the white space.

There is also less gravity the further you are from the main castle mass.

History Crown was born in the Age of Secrecy in France, with the Idea of Repression. They were of higher class, though they often snuck out to disguise as and mingle among all classes of France. They felt closer to the common people than the nobility, and they could feel the festering repression in both themself and in France.

Over time, their Idea began to shift to "Release of Repression" - not that they had a name for it at that time. They began to encourage others to free themselves of meaningless restraints, to take matters into their own hands. Perhaps the French Revolution would have occurred without them, but their words and their abilities most certainly encouraged it. When they were 18, the Revolution began.

They stood alongside the common folk, but eventually their noble blood was discovered. They were cast under suspicion, but accepted death as their fate for the karma of having a hand in so much strife in the country, even if, in their mind, it was for the better. After some deliberation and some egging on by the part of Crown themself, they were brought to be executed. Just as the blade fell, however, there was a change within them. A burst of light filled the area, and when it faded, they were gone.

They appeared somewhere nearby in their new existence as an Edeia, forgetting many details of their human life but not at all forgetting the revolution. With a mentality of "my work here is done," they left France, off to stir the pot elsewhere.

Another Edeia found them quickly and informed them of the contract for Secrecy. Muted was rather displeased by the restriction, but understood the rationale behind it. For a time, they took their name as Muted Crown, and their appearance was of one still muted. They did what they could to help those who were repressed by themself, others, or circumstances, often by disguising themself as a human or manipulating dreams.

Perhaps unsurprisingly, they could only stay quiet for so long. They started revealing themself to small groups, and then larger and larger ones - groups that were repressed, oppressed, suffering from inaction. Order caught wind of this and sent Saturne to warn them, and Muted heeded the warning for a time. Before long, however, they again could no longer resist. Order judged them to be too great a risk for Secrecy, and they were given the option to remain in a Sanctuary away from mundane civilization until Secrecy was over, or be sentenced to Abstraction containment. Muted grudgingly agreed to remain in a Sanctuary.

They spent the rest of the hundred years or so of Secrecy moving amongst Sanctuaries, interacting with the microcosms of society within them. Many were still holding themself back, and Muted helped them uncage themselves, helped them unlock the potential of their own lives. Over time, Muted felt a slight shift in their sense of self. One day, they spoke with Saturne and found a new balance with a new self: Crown, Edeia of Uncaging. Their form, which had begun to undergo a number of changes, changed into what they are today.

When Secrecy ended, Crown was ready for the new world.

#creature #my species #original species #art #my art #procreate #edeia #spirit #ideation #scheduled

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uncaught-coolfish · 1 year

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Adam/Sienna, Adam/Marrow, Adam/Clover, Adam/Winter and Adam/Cinder (Shackled Ambition, Bulldogs, Bullseye, Arctic Warfare and Tartaurus, respectively). That should be a good start. :3

OOOOH GIVING ME A PLATTER OF SHIPS WITH MY FAVORITE WORST GUY??? great start ok

Sienna/Adam? HARD NO

Why don’t you ship it? Canon wise, I don’t ship murdered x murderer. Non-canon wise? Uhhh…. 1. I’ve always headcanonned them as having some sort of mother-son relationship (oh wow the girl Literally Writing The Fic About That using big words) 2. AGAIN I AM WRITING THEM WITH THE FOUND FAMILY DYNAMIC 3. Again, headcanons, but… even canon wise, visually alone there is DEFO an age gap between the two me thinks(plus the “Sienna controls through the power of Pussy and Sex” tweet haunts my fucking nightmares)

What would have made you ship it? Uhhh probably nothing, always gonna be the “Surrogate Family Sienna and Adam” truther!!

Despite not shipping it, anything positive? “Shackled Ambitions” is a metal ass ship name

Bulldogs? Ship!

What made you ship it? From the super cute ship name and a whole lot of differing possibilities dynamic wise (given ONE DIES BEFORE WERE INTRODUCED TO THE OTHER), it’s honestly just a ship I can vibe with. And both characters are my little meow meows

2. What are your favorite things about the ship? Happy fun buddy x Edgeo the Hedgehog over here…

3.Is there an unpopular opinion you have on your ship? Idk. Don’t see much of this ship anywhere but everything I do see is… fairly nice. It’s cute. Solid 7-8.

Bullseye? Ehhhhhh?????

Genuinely have nothing to say on this since I’ve LITERALLY never heard of it before LOL

Arctic Warefare? Honestly SHIP

What made you ship it? Literally came into my mind as a “this would be funny lol” and it has since plagued my mind like a parasite

Favorite things about the ship? what could have been (if bullboy over here ever got to interact with a Schnee). plus they’re both bad bitch cuntresses soooo

Unpopular opinion about your ship? I am a firm believer in the white and blue x black and red, Angel x Devil, “good” x “evil”, and the dynamic possibilities are very interesting. Probably wouldn’t ever want it in canon (because what they’re doing with Winter as of RN kind of suuuucks!!!!) but AU is where the heart is.

Tartaurus? Again, ehhhh?

Why don’t you ship it? I see them paralleling more in how their lives (—of child slavery man this show has a weird problem with making their villains margina—) shaped who they became as they grew older, and less less them as a. Thing. plus the whole “she killed a bunch of his men to get him to comply” shit YIKES

What would have made you ship it? Had Adam ever been allowed to interact with any other character outside of like. 5 and also if Cinder wasn’t soooooooo boring now

Positives? Again, cool ass ship name

sorry if this is cluttered asf, I’m new at this and yeeeeah :D

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kimyoonmiauthor · 3 months

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Controversial Opinion: Info dump isn't always bad and...

Info dump isn't always bad and there is a huge difference between description, detail, rumination, and info dump. Wait until I say that telling isn't always bad...

Haha. More story theory hopefully with a global perspective.

Definitions

Info dump is a lot of information supplied all at once usually in a long paragraph.

Description is usually a paragraph using adjectives and adverbs to represent a person, object or place. And for writers without an action involved. (Better with opinions and emotions and/or tone attached).

Detail is usually an insert into a sentence to represent an aspect of a person, object or place within a set of actions.

Rumination is usually a reflection that not necessarily has actions, but the thoughts of the character. This may slow down the current action, but should be loosely anchored to time and space.

Info Dumping

People say Info dumping is ALWAYS evil. ALWAYS.

"ONCE UPON A TIME a girl named Cinderella lived with her stepmother and two stepsisters. Cinderella had to work hard while the others slept well into the day. It was Cinderella who had to wake up each morning when it was still dark and cold to start the fire. It was Cinderella who cooked the meals. It was Cinderella who kept the fire going. The poor girl could not stay clean, from all the ashes and cinders by the fire."

Credit:

Ummm... info dumping.

Chinese folktale Ye Xian ("Chinese Cinderella")

"Long, long time ago, there was a cave chief named Wu in south coast of China. He married two wives. Unfortunately, One of them died after giving birth to a baby girl. After growing into a young lady, the girl was extremely beautiful and had a remarkable gift for embroidery and spinning. Chief Wu liked her very much and named her Ye Xian."

Credit: https://www.slps.org/cms/lib03/MO01001157/Centricity/Domain/4081/Cinderella--Ye%20Xian--China%20ancient%20and%20modern.pdf (Warning: PDF)

Umm... info dumping.

NK Jemisin said she cackled over the fact she put in what? Info dumping (blog):

"I am not as I once was. They have done this to me, broken me open and torn out my heart. I do not know who I am anymore.

I must try to remember.

* * *

My people tell stories of the night I was born. They say my mother crossed her legs in the middle of labor and fought with all her strength not to release me into the world. I was born anyhow, of course; nature cannot be denied. Yet it does not surprise me that she tried.

* * *

My mother was an heiress of the Arameri. There was a ballfor the lesser nobility—the sort of thing that happens once a decade as a backhanded sop to their self-esteem. My father dared ask my mother to dance; she deigned to consent. I have often wondered what he said and did that night to make her fall in love with him so powerfully, for she eventually abdicated her position to be with him. It is the stuff of great tales, yes? Very romantic. In the tales, such a couple lives happily ever after. The tales do not say what happens when the most powerful family in the world is offended in the process."

But why does this work?

BTW, I find it funny that the Chinese info dumping is shorter than the European one here. Usually it's the reverse and (usually US) people get enraged at the info dump in Chinese stories.

Granted fairytales try to shorten things by info dumping.

NK Jemisin said that she wanted to evoke folktales, but also, buried in that passage is characterization.

Info dumping is good for making something that would be long, long pages of nothing shorten to sometimes one sentence. Do you want 200 pages of showing how a town grew over 20 years with a first person narrative? No. That's not the time. So you can say something good about it, but integrate that info dump with other things:

emotions

place

character

time

NK Jemisin also plays with poetic phrasing to short up the expectation.

People will notice, but it's not necessarily "evil". And one can also do characterization of object as well. (Personification)

Info dump is also useful in Mysteries where you have a Sherlock Holmes-eque character who has put together all of the missing pieces and you need to remind the reader what has transpired. (Japanese dramas love, love, BTW, making fun of this)

So far her improvement was sufficient—and in many other points she came on exceedingly well; for though she could not write sonnets, she brought herself to read them; and though there seemed no chance of her throwing a whole party into raptures by a prelude on the pianoforte, of her own composition, she could listen to other people’s performance with very little fatigue. Her greatest deficiency was in the pencil—she had no notion of drawing—not enough even to attempt a sketch of her lover’s profile, that she might be detected in the design. There she fell miserably short of the true heroic height. At present she did not know her own poverty, for she had no lover to portray. She had reached the age of seventeen, without having seen one amiable youth who could call forth her sensibility, without having inspired one real passion, and without having excited even any admiration but what was very moderate and very transient. This was strange indeed! But strange things may be generally accounted for if their cause be fairly searched out. There was not one lord in the neighbourhood; no—not even a baronet. There was not one family among their acquaintance who had reared and supported a boy accidentally found at their door—not one young man whose origin was unknown. Her father had no ward, and the squire of the parish no children.

--Jane Austen, Northanger Abbey

100% info dump, but you forgive her because it's satire of a style.

Description

You can info dump without description. You can do description without info dumping.

These aren't inherently the same thing.

Their Eyes were Watching God by Zora Neale Hurston, Chapter 1

Ships at a distance have every man’s wish on board. For some they come in with the tide. For others they sail forever on the horizon, never out of sight, never landing until the Watcher turns his eyes away in resignation, his dreams mocked to death by Time. That is the life of men. Now, women forget all those things they don’t want to remember, and remember everything they don’t want to forget. The dream is the truth. Then they act and do things accordingly. So the beginning of this was a woman and she had come back from burying the dead. Not the dead of sick and ailing with friends at the pillow and the feet. She had come back from the sodden and the bloated; the sudden dead, their eyes flung wide open in judgment.

Annotated: https://pressbooks.library.torontomu.ca/theireyeswerewatchinggod/chapter/1/

But notice the transitions, the personification and the difference between info dumping and description in this piece. Are you really getting that much information from this? Isn't it setting more the mood before the action, thus setting up the tone? The first paragraph sets up men. The second sets up women. And yet if you read the rest of the text, it's not necessarily evil the rest of the paragraph because the rest of the passage, if you're patient, rewards you by tying the theme, and later the thematic elements of the book tie together.

In setting up the tone, and setting up promises along the way to pay off later, it's mostly using description, not info dump. Info dump is far more mechanical in nature.

Even the details within the passage aren't really helping with the INFO. But helping with setting the TONE.

Details

The snow had started that morning. Hye-ja opened the window, sat on the sill, and watched the carefree flakes turn the world giddy. The neighborhood was still, the snow muffling every tiny, squirming noise. There were no calls for the baseballs that came flying into her yard several times a day, no sound of children sneaking over the wall after them. When the girl who rented the room near the front gate worked the day shift, the neighbor children took advantage of the vacant house and climbed over the wall.

Opening to The Wayfarer by Oh Cheong Hee in the collection: The Future of Silence: Fiction by Korean Women. Translated by Bruce and Ju-Chan Fulton

Tonal set up. Foreshadowing. But also a very smooth transition to the characters in the scene and also introduces thematic set up. The detail is there.

"still, the snow muffling every tiny, squirming noise"

to emphasize other things: "no sound of children sneaking over the wall after them"

This would usually also be struck down as "incorrect."

But this works to do so much.

Rumination

Of course the US filled to the brim with non-self-reflection in an imperialistic society hates, absolutely hates paragraphs of self-reflection and rumination.

But this is not info dump.

This is also called introverts exist, !@#$. The industry should allow introverts to exist and ambiverts too. The best way to do this is long paragraphs of rumination, tied to time and place.

Seeing the water birds on the lake increase in number day by day, I thought to myself how nice it would be if it snowed before we got back to the Palace--the garden would look so beautiful; and then, two days later, while I was away on a short visit, lo and behold, it did snow. As I watched the rather drab scene at home, I felt both depressed and confused. For some years now, I had existed from day to day in a listless fashion, taking note of the flowers, the birds in song, the way the skies change from season to season, the moon, the frost and snow, doing little more than registering the passage of time. How would it all turn out? The thought of my continuing loneliness was unbearable, and yet I had managed to exchange sympathetic letters with those of like mind--some contact via fairly tenuous connections--who would discuss my trifling tales and other matters with me; but I was merely amusing myself with fiction, finding solace for my idleness in foolish words.

The Diaries of Lady Murasaki by Lady Murasaki

What I'm saying, up front, is !@#$ Stop marking rumination as info dump and not all rumination is evil because you need dialogue every few paragraphs in order to cope with a text block. Rumination is not evil. It gives the inner working of the person, gives them time to reflect on their actions and make better ones.

Also, it's crucial to things like mystery novels.

Again, introverts are not evil. And I know a bunch of introverts out there marking up passages like this as "not good" but think really hard on it, self-reflect. Do introverts really, really do externalization of all of their thoughts to another person like they are on a movie screen? No. !@#$ Jane Austen's Northanger Abbey.

Internal v. external thoughts. Let rumination live.

Also, sometimes characters don't ruminate because they are externally motivated. Sometimes they don't know their inner world. These are called by US publishers, "Bad narrators". But I don't think this holds true either.

This clearly isn't info dump at all. Is any new information added to Murasaki's passage? No. Does it add that much detail? No. Does it describe much no. Does it tell the inner workings of this person? Yes. Her point isn't about the passage of time, but the loneliness and isolation she feels by the coming snow. It emphasizes what? tone, a mood and a thematic feeling that pays off later.

I should note here, I kinda wish that US publishers would allow this more. UK isn't as bad, but seriously. Let tone and thematic set ups live.

Conclusion

You know what I'm going to say here. There is no such thing as an evil writing tool. Only a tool that was applied badly for the story aims. The job of us as readers, critiquers and writers is to recognize them and apply them well. 'cause yaddayadda, reading comprehension and media literacy.

#story theory #description #detail #world literature #rumination #info dump

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trashytummiez · 2 years

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Disarming

I got an idea to write out a flashback scene between Dabi and Mr. Compress after @fungusfangs came up with an interesting scene; Dabi cauterizing Mr. Compress' arm after it got blown up by Chisaki. So I ended up making a fic that was sort of based on the fun drawing she made and sort of ended up being a little more feelsy in the end.

Dabi's face was hard to read.

…Granted it was always hard to read due to his scarred patchwork flesh but this was different.

"…Unnnf…s-shouldn't you be with Tomura and the others? Ngh…n-no doubt they're…owww…ngh…n-no doubt they're strategizing as we speak…" Mr. Compress could barely speak. Even with his sad faced mask on Dabi could hear him clenching his teeth from the mindnumbing pain. He grasped at the now bandaged stump where his arm used to be. His bicep was still pulsating from the ruptured nerve ends now severed. Compress' breathing was visibly hitched and shaky.

His yellow shirt was only halfway on with his right arm still in his sleeve. His left arm...or what was left of it was left exposed. It rendered him mostly bare chested but he still insisted on keeping something on. The masks on the other hand he slipped back on more out of shame. Something about throwing up at the smell of his own flesh cooking from Dabi's cauterizing was more than a bit embarrassing for the villain who had already lost more than his fair share that night.

Dabi cracked his jokes throughout. He even lightly ribbed Compress about no one ever being able to anticipate the smell of their own flesh burning. A horrid sickly sweet smell Dabi himself was probably more familiar with than literally anyone alive today.

But even when he joked there was something 'forced' about it.

After all Mr. Compress wasn't a fighter. Sleight of hand and evasion were his tricks of the trade. That was going to be a lot harder with only one hand now…

Dabi exhaled through his small nostrils. He slid down into a hunched position next to Mr. Compress. His sky blue eyes remained laser focused on the stump he just cauterized not too long ago. Dabi's fingers twitched as they usually did when he was lost in thought.

"…Dabi?" Compress spoke up.

"…Well least you ain't cryin'," Dabi finally said in a casual and deceptively snarky way.

"D-Do you have any idea what it's like to…" Mr. Compress' complaining trailed off when he glanced at Dabi's…everything. Even Dabi couldn't help but raise a brow with a sly smirk that seemed to say 'please finish that thought'.

Compress spared himself that indignity.

"…A-At any rate I wasn't crying, thank you very much. Merely howling in agony. Big difference…"

"Whatever you say ol' man," Dabi said then he smirked. "But next time you give me shit for gettin' nauseous, ya better remember tonight."

Mr. Compress shuddered and held a fist against his masked mouth.

"...Hrp...p-please don't remind me..." Mr. Compress insisted after giving a small nauseous burp in his mouth. Just the thought of his arm burning and that damn smell emanating made his stomach turn all over again.

Still even with his continued teasing Dabi's eyes never averted away from the bandaged stump.

Dabi always used his patchwork face to his advantage. It gave him an impossible to read expression unless he was being especially snarky or downright malicious. Dabi's neutral expression was deadpanned as it got.

But it was the eyes that tended to give him away. Compress saw something in Dabi's eyes. It was the same thing he saw in Jin's eyes after the meeting with that bastard Yakuza boss went so bad.

…It almost looked like...guilt...

"…Y-You know…Dabi…" Compress tried to speak without too much pain being etched onto his voice. "…Those red little bullets of his…they got to me before I could use my quirk on that Chisaki mongrel. He had his gunmen trained on us before the meeting even happened. Lurking and waiting. They would've gotten to you long before you could burn him to cinders…"

Dabi said nothing.

"M-My point is…this…what happened to Magne…y-you can't-"

"-Dude…you don't seriously think I blame myself for what happened to you and her do ya?" Dabi asked with a soft scoff. "You said it yourself. It all happened so fast right? So my being there wouldn't have changed anything."

"…R-Right. Exactly!" Mr. Compress said assuringly. But despite what Dabi just said Compress could still see in his eyes what he was really feeling.

"…Tch. You're soft ol man. Actin' like I care about any of you guys. Gimme a break. I told ya didn't I? Y'all are just a means to an end. Nothin' more…nah…nothin' at all…" Dabi said in a way that sounded more like he was trying to convince himself than Compress.

He sat himself down next to the older more theatrical villain.

"…She was…pretty cool though…"

Mr. Compress nodded quietly.

"…There was that one night my gut was such a mess I was pukin' all night…"

"…That is…unfortunately…far more than one night," Mr. Compress replied in a delightfully sickened way.

"Ain't my fault my body hates me. But anyway. She not only stayed with me that whole night, but she even wrapped me up in a blanket'n cuddled close…rubbin' my back'n strokin' my head all comforting'n shit…she…she didn't hafta do that…ain't like she owed me anything…"

"Toga and Jin didn't call her 'Big Sister Mag' for nothing after all," Mr. Compress said fondly with the pain in his voice somewhat dimmed.

Dabi was quiet again.

"…She wasn't my friend or nothin' but…I'm gonna miss her…"

Mr. Compress' mask covered his facial expressions but he was genuinely taken aback listening to Dabi speak the softest he'd ever heard him speak before. His eyes were drifting down to the ground. Compress was starting to think that if he still had functioning tear ducts…Dabi might have started tearing up if he could…

The two men sat there on the ground together with Compress still squirming from the pain he was enduring. Then he looked back at Dabi and managed as close to a stiff upper lip as he could manage.

"…Y-You really should get back to Tomura. That boy hates repeating himself and no doubt his plans are going to be very layered and detailed," Mr. Compress insisted.

"Nahhh…" Dabi said in a more casual way. "You ain't there either so the boss is gonna be repeatin' himself regardless. Won't make a difference if he's just repeatin' his plans t'you or both of us at the same time…and…if I've learned anything from her…it's never leave a teammate alone and in pain, y'know?"

Despite the sheer amount of pain wracking his body…Mr. Compress smiled softly behind his mask at Dabi.

"…Thank you…"

"Whatever ol' man. Just don't expect me to cuddle ya the way she did for me," Dabi said with a scoff while he got comfortable next to Compress.

The two men once again sat in silence but there was more comfort in their shared silence this time.

So naturally Dabi broke the ice again.

"…So…y'want more painkillers?"

"Oh god yes…"

#kink fic #non kink #writing #dabi #mr. compress #nausea #healing #comfort

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jinmukangwrites · 3 years

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@damianwayneweek Day 1 (6-13): Truth serum | Damian Wayne Protection Squad™ | Best friends to lovers

Note: Rushed. I'm sure it's still the 13th somewhere.

Warnings: kidnapping, nonconsensual drugging, needles.

-o-o-o-o-

Dick wakes to the taste of blood on his tongue.

Thankfully, after slowly moving his tongue around, it's just because he bit the inside of his cheek sometime between when he was knocked out and when he woke up. His head pounds like a war-drum with his heart as he tries to get ahold of his situation. Without opening his eyes, he assess his arms are restrained behind his back and he's sitting on an uncomfortable metal chair. His legs are also tied to the chair, keeping him from running.

The suit he wears feels suffocating, proof that—once again—him wearing Batman's cowl isn't some sort of sick joke. However, his shoulders are a bit lighter suggesting his cape has been taken. Not that he'll mourn it.

His cowl is on. He silently curses himself for not checking that first. It would be the first thing Bruce checked.

He always prioritized the identity. The mission. Secrecy before safety, Gotham before everything else. Not injuries, not friends, not family, partners-

Dick's eyes fly open, reminding him of the real thing he should have checked for first.

"Robin," he gasps out loud, looking wildly around the room and tugging on the ropes holding his back to the chair.

The room is dark and small, the walls made of cinder bricks that have water mold where it connects to the cement floor. In front of him is a metal table with a black, palm sized box placed on top. Dick ignores that for now and looks to his side, only relaxing when he finds Damian to his right, tied similarly to another chair with his chin to his chest. Only unconscious, Dick notes as he watches his stomach rise and fall.

However, anxiety flutters in his gut when he sees there's a dried trail of blood running down the side of his head.

"Robin," he tries again, knowing at the back of his head that Bruce would be telling him to be quiet. Check for cameras. Look for an escape route. Don't let them know you're awake until you have a plan-

Dick shakes his head. Damian could have a concussion, and that takes priority. Dick could have one as well, considering how badly his head hurts, but Damian is only ten years old and Dick knows better than anyone the lingering effects injuries could have when you're a child.

He presses his feet to the ground and pushes, attempting to slide closer to his protege. He does nothing more than jolt in place. There's not enough leverage.

However, it seems the sound of the metal scraping against the ground is enough to wake up the boy. He comes to with a small groan and a pain laced crease between his brow.

"Robin," Dick repeats a third time. He can do nothing but sit as Damian blinks slowly behind his mask; his shoulders tensing as he too notices the restraints.

Damian opens his mouth, but before any words could leave there's a loud clang. The door in front of Dick and Damian, on the other side of the table, swings open.

In walks three men; two are unfamiliar, but the third Dick recognizes from the case files he and Damian got from Gordon about a week ago. Jonas Gibbs. Known arms dealer and smuggler. He's made his moves in Gotham these past few weeks, getting the police and public nervous about shootings with illegal guns. Batman and Robin had finally pinned down the date, time, and location of his next shipment and intended to take him down then, but he was smart and had hired help from various mercenaries that Dick could confidently bet used to be in the military before they were dishonorably discharged.

The way they moved, worked, and attacked was too strategic and planned. It was only a matter of time before one got a lucky hit on Damian; a blow with the butt of their rifle across the kid's forehead. The barrel of the rifle pointed down at Damian's unconscious body was all it took for Dick to raise his hands in surrender.

And now they're here, in some damp old room. Tied to chairs. A table placed in front of them with a mysterious box set on top of it.

"Perfect timing," Gibbs says, grinning. The two other men, clearly mercs, stand on either side of him as he drags up a chair and sits on the other side of the table. "I was almost afraid we'd have to dump water to get you up."

"What do you want?" Dick growls. He must want something. He hasn't taken off the cowl… or at least he hasn't tried to get through the various traps to pull it off. It means he must need something that an identity reveal wouldn't give him.

"I'm glad you asked, Batman," Gibbs says, a grin spreading on his face. He looks to one of his goons and they immediately pull a small camera out from a bag they had around their shoulder. He points it at Dick.

Dick gets a bad feeling about all of this.

"I want you to tell your real name for the camera."

Dick glares. "Are you serious?"

"Very. One of my men has second degree burns thanks to that cowl of yours electrifying him. So, I decided I'll let you go without any more harm. You tell me your names, and I'll let you go. Won't even show the video to anyone. Well," he smirkes, "unless you get in my way."

Dick clenches his jaw. Besides him, Damian mumbles something.

"I'm going to give you to the count of three," Gibbs says, unphased. "Otherwise it will get unpleasant."

His eyes drift to the black box, signifying it's mysterious importance. Dick doesn't let it scare him. He's not going to let this low life criminal blackmail him... put him and his family in danger. He'll take whatever will be thrown at him until he can work out a way to escape.

Gibbs counts down, and he reaches zero uninterrupted.

"Well," Gibbs says, unsurprised. "The hard way then. Gag him."

The grunts move like clockwork, and before Dick knows it his face is being grabbed and held in place while the other shoves a rag into his mouth and wraps a layer of tape around his face to hold it there.

"Batman..." he hears Damian mumble as the grunts back up. He sounds out of it. In pain. Dick can only hope that the hit he took to his head isn't too serious.

Gibbs retakes his attention, however, when he reaches forward and presses a hatch on the side of the black box, flicking it open on spring-loaded hinges. What's inside makes Dick's stomach drop. A needle and a glass vial filled with a yellow tinted liquid lays neatly inside. One of the grunts lifts the needle and the vial to begin filling it up.

"Do you know what this is?" Gibbs asks as the liquid fills the syringe. "I've yet to test it on anyone, but word is from the man I bought it from... It forces the truth out of you." The grunts finishes filling the syringe and flicks the bubbles. "Truth serum."

Dick has no doubt that the serum will work. He only wonders why he's threatening with it while he's gagged.

When the grunt walks around the table to Damian, he doesn't wonder anymore.

He can only tug on his restraints as the grunt grabs Damian's arm to aim the needle. Damian, for his effort, attempts to pull away, but the weakness of his head injury and his restraints do nothing to stop the needle from entering the inside of his elbow.

"You could have done this the easy way, Batman," Gibbs says. Dick watches as the syringe is pressed down, pushing the liquid into Damian's body. "I never like getting children involved."

Damian squeezes his jaw shut and turns his head away from the needle in his arm. It only takes a moment before the grunt pulls the empty syringe out before returning to standing besides his leader. A bead of blood appears where the needle left Damian's skin, but the boy doesn't move.

The air feels solid. Dick can hardly breathe as he tries to conceal his panic. He wants nothing more than to get out of these restraints and punch Gibbs and his men into next year, but he can't reach anything useful to do so. All he can do is watch Damian sit stock still as drugs spread through his veins.

A minute passes as Gibbs sits there in smug silence. Then, when a few more moments pass, he speaks.

"Robin," he says. Damian flinches, but doesn't look his way. His jaw still clenched. The goon with the camera points it right at Damian. "Why don't we start with something easy? What's your favorite animal?"

Damian curls his fingers behind his back and keeps his jaw grinding shut.

"Tight lipped huh?" Gibbs chuckles. He doesn't look surprised. Or worried. "Don't worry, I was assured that once it's fully in your system, it will hurt more to say nothing. What's your favorite animal, Robin?"

Damian says nothing, but he looks ridged. Tense.

"You look uncomfortable, Robin. Do you feel it in your head? I promise it will get better when you stop resisting. Let's try something different while we wait. Are you from Gotham?"

Damian's knuckles must be white under his gloves.

"How about your favorite color? Is it blue?"

Damian breathes a shaky breath through his nose, and Dick's heart breaks. He works harder to find a weakness in his restraints.

"My, your resilience is admirable. Were you trained on this?" Gibbs asks. Damian remains stubborn, but Gibbs still doesn't look worried. "Who were you trained by?"

"The best," Damian whimpers, cutting himself off with a growl and shutting his jaw. Gibbs smiles.

"What's your favorite animal?"

Damian shakes his head, a frustrated cry caught in his throat.

This continues, Gibbs finding victory in the one slip and pressing with everything he's got. Dick doesn't know how long Damian can last like this, and he doesn't want to find out. With every passing second, Dick knows it's only a matter of time before Damian's lips loosen. No amount of training can beat a good concussion and drugs designed to make your lips loose.

"What grade are you? Do you have any friends?"

After each question, Dick can see more and more discomfort in Damian's position. He's beginning to fidget and whimper and Dick's... Dick's had enough.

"What's your favorite color, Robin?"

"Green," Damian says with strangled gasp, sounding horrified with himself.

Gibbs smirks like a predator, knowing he's finally won.

"What's your real name?"

Yeah. Dick's had enough. With a hard tug, the ropes around his wrists finally snap against where he's been rubbing at them with his gauntlets. Gibbs and his men can barely react before Dick's upon them, cutting away the rest of the ropes with a batarang from his belt. He makes quick work of them in their shock, knocking them out and leaving them on the floor in unconscious piles.

He almost bends to put cable ties on their arms and legs, but he hears a tight whimper behind him. The moment after, he's rushing over to Damian to undo the ropes.

"Are you okay?" Dick asks, cutting through the bonds.

Damian shakes his head. Dick almost kicks himself.

"It's okay," he quickly says. "No one can hear. Let it out."

He's almost afraid Damian will force himself to remain silent, but to his relief and heartache, Damian opens his mouth and lets out a heaving sob. "It hurts- it hurts-"

Dick finally undoes the ropes, then he pulls his kid in close to his chest. "Get it out," he soothes, rubbing Damian's back.

"Dogs-" Damian starts, dissolving into quick rambling breaths. Every question he had been asked begins to be answered. Dick holds him close and lets him get it out with his tears. Silently, he sends a message to Gordon to pick up Gibbs and his men, then he messages Alfred to get the med-bay and lab ready. Soon enough, Damian is silent except for pain laced gasps, he holds tight to Dick's chest as Dick lifts him up and stuffs the vial with extra serum into his belt.

"I got you," he says as Damian continues to cry all the way to the batmobile. "I got you."

#damianwayneweek2021 #damian wayne #dick grayson #robin #Nightwing #dc comics #jin writes #fanfiction #violence tw #needles tw #noncon drugging tw #ill upload to ao3 with an edited link in the morning

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aspoonofsugar · 3 years

Note

What is your opinion about the Maidens in RWBY and their importance?

Hello anon!

I like the Maidens and especially how they explore two main ideas:

1) The concept of cycles and generations.

2) The trope of the chosen one.

THE CYCLE OF SEASONS

I think it is clear Ozpin created the Maidens partly because he wanted guardians and partly as a way to grieve his four daughters. He has symbolically dragged them into the cycle with him and Salem.

In a sense, the story keeps repeating. Salem kills Ozpin, he is reborn and his daughters are victims of the conflict between them.

Because of this, the four Maidens have become one of the many symbols of this endless cycle, which is clealry breaking its protagonists more and more.

This is well conveyed by the Maidens having a season theme. Seasons are in fact linked to the repetition of time aka one of Ozpin’s motifs:

At the same time, the idea of an older woman passing the torch to a younger one can be easily read as a metaphor for a mother-daughter dynamic. This is not always the case, but so far this interpretation is important for two of our four Maidens:

Penny receiving the Maiden’s powers from Fria is important on multiple levels and it plays on Penny alluding to Pinocchio. Fria (The Blue Fairy) recognizes Penny as a real girl, something she has been struggling with since the beginning:

Penny: Ruby... I'm not a real girl.

And is still struggling with:

Cinder: I don’t serve anyone. And you wouldn’t either, if you were built that way.

That said, Penny is not only struggling with enemies that consider her a robot, but also with the (understandable) overprotectiveness of people who love her:

Pietro: I lost you before. Are you asking me to go through that again? No. No. I want the chance to watch you live your life.

Penny: But dad… I am trying to.

She is not only a robot, who wants to prove she is a real girl, but also a daughter, who wants to grow into her own person.

This idea is made even stronger by Penny having been “created” through Pietro’s aura. She is a part of Pietro becoming someone completely different and independent from him. Still, isn’t it what all children are?

Raven is instead Penny’s opposite since she is not a daughter, but a mother. Not only that, but she is a mother, who fails three times.

She fails her biological daughter Yang by abandoning her and putting her in danger.

She fails Vernal, who dies for her.

She fails the previous Spring Maiden, who clearly looked up to her and was betrayed:

Cinder: Vernal was a decoy the whole time. The last Spring Maiden must've trusted you a great deal before she died. I bet that was a mistake...

This is well conveyed by Raven’s case being the opposite of what should ideally happen. Normally an older Maiden should pass her power to a younger girl, so that the cycle keeps going and that a new generation can keep fighting for good. However, Raven steals the powers of the Maiden for herself, just like she uses her shape-shifting ability for selfish objectives:

Ozpin: Everyone has a choice. The Branwens chose to accept their powers and the responsibilities that came with them. And later, one of them chose to abandon her duties in favor of her own self-interest.

She presents herself as a mentor for young women, but in the end she is a failure because she is too self-centered.

In conclusion, Rwby is both a coming of age story and a story that deals with cycles. Let’s think about the many abusive cycles in the story or the damaging cycles present in society, for example. All these cycles need to be broken and I would not be surprised if this will be the case for the cycle of the Maidens as well.

THE CHOSEN ONES

Up until now, the person who should be a Maiden never becomes one.

a) Pyrrha was destined to be the Fall Maiden, but Cinder stole the power.

b) Vernal is foreshadowed to be the Spring Maiden, but Raven turns out to be the real one.

c) Winter has been preparing herself to inherit the Winter’s Maiden’s role, but Penny is the one chosen by Fria.

Why is that so?

The story is clearly playing with the idea of the “chosen one” and asking some questions.

Are people chosen by destiny:

Cinder: It’s unfortunate you were promised a power that was never truly yours.

Or do they choose it?

Red-Haired Woman: She understood that she had a responsibility… to try. I don’t think she would regret her choice, because a Huntress would understand that there really wasn’t a choice to make. And a Huntress is what she always wanted to be.

What if the chosen person is the wrong one?

Lionheart: She was determined, at first, when she inherited her powers, but the weight of responsibility proved to be too much for the child. She... ran. Abandoned her training, everyone. That was over a decade ago. There's no telling where she could be now.

Finally, is it even right to choose a person?

Weiss: Doesn't it bother you? He practically groomed your entire military career.

Winter: It did at first, when the General first proposed it to me. But the more I thought about it, the more I saw it as a privilege, a chance to do some real good for Atlas. For Remnant.

Weiss: But your destiny was chosen for you, without your input.

So far each Maiden has explored this concept in a different way. Moreover, the story has highlighted many problems with the method used by Ozpin and his allies to select their guardians.

First of all there is the machine used to transmit aura:

Ironwood: We've made... significant strides. And we believe we've found a way to capture it.

Qrow: Capture it and cram it into something else. (gestures to Pyrrha as she takes a second to realize what that means) Or in your case ...

Pyrrha: (to Ironwood) That's...

Ironwood: Classified.

Pyrrha: ... wrong!

This method has been presented in-universe as sketchy and unethical both for the person who is having her aura taken and for the person receiving it.

It is also interesting that this machine is basically the technological equivalent of the Grimm used by Salem and Cinder to steal the powers in the first place:

One is the product of destruction (The Brother’s Grimms), while the other is the result of creation (in-universe technology is linked to creation). However, they both do essentially the same thing. They steal another person’s aura and change the one absorbing it:

Raven: You turned yourself into a monster just for power.

Secondly, there is the fact that so far several Maidens have died or have been targeted in horrible ways.

Some of them were specifically attacked because young and less experienced than others, like Amber. Some others made their choice without truly understanding it, like the Spring Maiden. And some of them. like Pyrrha, were not even given all the elements to make an informed choice.

In short:

Hazel: You send children to their deaths for a cause that you know has no victory, no end!

It is true that Hazel is a hypocrite that feels anger for Ozpin sending students to their deaths only to be the one killing them. It is also true that he does not respect his sister’s choice:

Oscar: Did she know the risk of being a Huntress?

Hazel: She was only a child! She wasn't ready!!

Oscar: She made a choice! A choice to put others before herself! So do I.

However, the narrative harshly criticizes Ozpin for not giving people all the information, “the knowledge”, they need to make that choice:

Yang: There was so much you hadn't told us! How could you think that was okay?!

Finally, we arrive at the current volumes where we see how Ironwood has tried to control Penny, Winter and Fria aka all the three people involved in the passage of the Maidens powers...only to fail miserably.

And in this failure probably lies the true mistake which has been made over and over again. The whole point is that probably the whole cycle (thematically) can’t and should not be controlled to this extent:

Goodwitch: At first, the only thing that was certain was that the powers were specifically passed on to young women. But as time went on, it was discovered that the selection process was much more... intimate.

Pyrrha: ... Intimate?

Goodwitch: As we understand it now, when a Maiden dies, the one who is in her final thoughts is the first candidate to inherit her power.

The powers are passed from a person to another through emotions. It is not by chance that the last person in a Maiden’s mind is the one who gets the power. It is because the power is linked to emotions and to ties and you should not try to weaponize them.

MAIDENS AND RELICS

Finally each Maiden is clearly linked to the theme represented by her respective relic.

Pyrrha and Cinder are both linked to the idea of destiny and choosing. I have shared some thoughts on them here.

I would say that Cinder wants to be chosen. She wants to be special and to be given value. This is probably why she is serving Salem. It is because Salem has chosen her for an important role:

Salem: When I chose you as my vessel for the Maidens, I put my trust in you.

This is not positive. It is dehumanizing:

Salem: This game is not yours to win, Cinder, it’s mine. Just because you’re more valuable to me than a pawn, does not make you a player.

But Cinder sees this as a chance.

Pyrrha is instead a person, who chooses her own destiny:

Pyrrha: When I think of destiny, I don’t think of a predetermined fate you can’t escape. But rather… some sort of final goal, something you work towards your entire life.

In other words, Pyrrha has an active role in her own destiny, while Cinder so far has accepted it passively.

This might seem ironic because all in all Cinder has been a pretty active character. She was born as nothing and fought to free herself and to become more powerful. However, she is still leaving her own life in the hands of another person, who is specifically coded as an abusive mother-figure. It is probable that her arc will be about taking back the agency Salem is clearly stealing from her.

This might very well be why she is the Maiden of choice. It is because in the end she’ll make an active choice to get her own freedom back.

At the same time, Pyrrha being active in her choices still leads to her demise. This is because she represents a choice without knowledge, as I have stated in the meta linked above:

She had been explained only a fragment of the truth, while the whole point is that one should learn, meet creation and destruction and then make a choice. This is why we have yet to meet the relic of choice.

As a matter of fact it is clear that knowledge and choice are complementary, just like destruction and creation.

This is highlighted also by their respective relics. On one hand the Lamp offers knowledge of the past. On the other hand the Crown gives its user a vision of a future choice.

This is because one has to know the past to change the future:

Bartholomew Oobleck : History is important, gentlemen! If you can't learn from it... you're destined to repeat it.

In a sense, knowledge is the passive condition of choice, while choice is the active goal of knowledge.

This is why one needs both to contribute to the world in the most effective way possible. If one acts without knowledge they might make the wrong choice. At the same time, knowledge without choice is just passiveness, as shown in The Indecisive King fairy tale.

Too much knowledge might lead to indeciveness or even cynism. This is why Raven is the Spring Maiden. It is because she is Pyrrha’s opposite aka knowledge without choice:

Yang: Which is it, mom? Are you merciful, or are you a survivor? Did you let me walk into that trap because you knew I could handle it, or because it meant you could get what you wanted?!

Raven keeps making decisions only to run away from them immediately after. Knowledge did not make her braver, but just a coward.

Finally we arrive to Penny and the idea of creation.

I have mentioned Penny in the meta linked above:

Penny is an artificial human, a creation who was given life because her father loved her so much that he sacrificed a part of his aura for her… twice. She is at the centre of the theme of creation and it represents the good sides of it. She is a creation with a soul, a child, the fruit of parental love. It is because of the love she received that she is willing to protect creation.

Penny is at the centre of the theme of creation in two ways.

a) She is a child, who wants independence.

b) She is a good declination of technology.

On one hand children are new lives that join the world. They are the embodyment of creation.

On the other hand technology is an expression of human creation and a way humans have to change and influence reality.

Penny is both. She is Pietro’s girl and a robot with a soul:

Pietro: When the General first challenged us to find the next breakthrough in defense technology, most of my colleagues pursued more obvious choices. I was one of the few who believed in looking inward for inspiration.

Ruby: You wanted a protector with a soul.

Pietro: I did. And when General Ironwood saw her, he did too. Much to my surprise, the Penny Project was chosen over all the other proposals.

Ironwood choosing Pietro’s project over others is very interesting and ambiguous. Did he choose this project because at the time he understood the importance of “a protector with a soul”?

Probably consciously yes, but the way he has treated Penny since volume 2 suggests also something different. It suggests a desire of domination. The idea that putting a soul into a metallic body would make it easier to control it.

After all:

Ironwood: For the past few years, Atlas has been studying Aura from a more scientific standpoint; how it works, what's it made of, how it can be used. We've made... significant strides. And we believe we've found a way to capture it.

Each one of humanity’s gift has another side of itself. Knowledge can lead to fear and choice is linked to passivity/agency. When it comes to creation, this gift brings with itself the temptation of control.

Why shouldn’t a creator “own” theis creation? Why shouldn’t they be entitled to it? Why should they share it with the rest of the world?

If one looks at Ironwood, at Atlas and at the other protagonists of this volume this way, a lot of things resonate.

Atlas is the most technological advanced kingdom, but instead of sharing its resources it closes off. Ironwood’s embargo is just another declination of this same idea of losing control.

Similarly the Ace Ops and Winter are all repressing their emotions. They want perfect control over themselves. They are taught they should be like drones.

Technology itself is often misused by the characters. Technolofy should be like Penny. It should have humanity and a soul, but Ironwood likes it because he sees it as something logical that can be controlled (and of course he keeps losing control over it). Ironwood wants to become like he thinks Penny is aka a controllable soul. He fails to understand that Penny is special because she has her own free will.

Finally, this same desire of control is present also in familial relationship. It is not by chance that the Schnee Family is in Atlas. Weiss’s story has always been about exploring this specific idea of a family. A family, which is cold and controlling, just like ice. Weiss’s arc is about melting this ice, in herself first and now in others as well.

Technological control and the control of people. In short, the control over two aspects of creation. This is the the idea Atlas represents and this is why it is currently falling.

In short, the creation must be free and it is not by chance the world is in its current predicament because the Gods tried to control their creations with disastrous results.

CONCLUSION

These are my main thoughts on the Maidens so far. That said, they might chance since the story is far from over as the arcs of all the maidens we have met so far.

As a final note, I find interesting that so far none of our four protagonists is a Maiden. It is an interesting choice and I think that it lets the series make a good use of its ensemble cast.

That said, I wonder if our four protagonists will end up calling back the original Four Maidens instead.

The fairy tale is interesting on multiple levels.

In-universe, it is interesting because it tells us something about how Ozpin was probably inspired by the original Four Maidens to try to save the world again. Ozpin is inspired by four normal people, who are just trying their best to help others.

This is a recurring idea in Rwby and this might be why none of the four protagonists has been selected to be a Maiden yet.

If read as a stand-alone, the story is an interesting tale on how to overcome depression.

The story starts with the old man closed in his house and it shows how he progressively opens up until he himself is able to help others.

Winter is the one who teaches him how to work on his own interiority even when the world is cold.

Springs prepares the terrain for him to come out. It makes the garden more welcoming. It is like when a person has to find the right environment to open herself up.

Summer is the one who finally drags the man out and gives him energy.

Finally Fall is the one who makes the man realize he can now share his new found energy with others.

Theirs is a virtuous cycle and I would say it is very different of the tragic cycle that sees the current Maidens as protagonists. Who knows? Maybe it is about going back to that virtuosity.

Thank you for the ask!

#rwby #rwby meta #maidens #cinder fall #raven branwen #penny polendina #pyrrha nikos #asksfullofsugar #anonymous

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itsclydebitches · 3 years

Note

None of them liked Ironwoods growingly tyrannical actions, it's the whole reason Ruby lies to him, he looked shady as hell. They are shown very clearly uncomfortable with what he's turned Atlas into in the First episode. It's just that at the end of Volime 7 he crossed the line.

The key words there are “first episode.” I’ve mentioned on other posts that if the plot had simply continued the forward momentum of the group being disgusted with Ironwood’s choices and working against him (hiding out in the city, gathering like-minded allies, etc.) then we would have been golden. Ironwood is Volume 7’s antagonist. There, done. The problem is what starts in the second episode. Our basic events are as follows:

The group (and audience) learn that Ironwood has arguably justified reasons for everything “shady as hell” that he’s done. The embargo? They are at war with Salem and people have been stealing resources since our introductory trailers (Blake). Soldiers in the streets? That first episode showed that grimm are attacking defenseless civilians and, if the soldiers hadn’t been there to fend the grimm off prior to Penny’s arrival, they likely would have died. Taking resources? That’s to re-establish global communications and enact a plan to stop Salem for good, freeing the world from the danger she presents.

However, they’re still morally gray choices which our group could have opposed… but they didn’t. They join Ironwood as public allies (standing with Clover and Penny against Robyn), as Inner Circle allies (they learn all of Ironwood’s plans—and we learn that he never lied to them), as huntsmen (it’s his power as general that gives them their licenses), and as fellow soldiers (they are indistinguishable from the Ace Ops in the missions they conduct). Now toss in a bunch of other connections like living in his academy, taking his weapon upgrades, and carrying the Relic. They might not like his actions, but they’re certainly doing everything possible to support and reap the benefits of them.

Ruby does lie to him… which two in the group oppose (however lackluster that was). Yang and Oscar both question the wisdom of doing the very thing they punished Ozpin for. Ren also develops a strong (if quiet) alliance with Ironwood that will carry into Volume 8... until his semblance changed and he forgot about it.

During all this there are efforts—mostly through Nora—to condemn Ironwood for his choices. How can you continue to hurt the people like this? Same answer as above: because he believes a short-term struggle is worth the long-term victory. Nora doesn’t agree… but Ruby, the leader, does. She pushes Ironwood to finish Amity somehow.

Which is an incredibly strange stance to take considering she knows that amassing a world-wide army will not defeat Salem. If the group wants Ironwood to stop hurting Mantle, all they have to do is tell him that Salem is immortal… but they don’t. They let him continue under this false belief, despite having more information about this war than he does and despite that information being the key to stopping the harm he’s enacting.

The arc of the volume is not the group choosing to trust Ironwood and then realizing he actually isn’t trustworthy, it’s the group (or rather, Ruby) deciding not to trust Ironwood and then realizing he is trustworthy. We get that climactic scene of Ruby and Oscar simultaneously realizing they should tell him about Salem and Oscar apologizing for keeping that secret in the first place.

Note that this occurs after they’ve talked him into telling Mantle about her. So not only is the group not made up of mindless subordinates being ordered about by a powerful general—it’s their advice Ironwood listens to—but now they’ve put an entire city in the position they were in during Volume 6. We’re told, via Ozpin’s arc, that telling people about Salem without including the issue of her immortality is a horrific thing to do. Those like Qrow have supposedly “wasted” their lives fighting an impossible war and the fandom has argued strongly that Ozpin has manipulated everyone involved in this fight by not giving them the full picture. Yet now, the group has spent months keeping that information from Ironwood when his questionable choices are based on that ignorance, and they’ve talked him into telling half his population that Salem exists and they should rise up to fight her… but not the pesky detail that she’s immortal. They did to Ironwood and all of Mantle exactly what Ozpin did to them.

Immediately after hearing that they’ve kept this secret from him the entire time they’ve been here (which he takes very well) Ironwood captures one of their main villains, loses his arm in the process, learns that two in the group have outright betrayed him to a political enemy, learns that despite all their best efforts Cinder has just waltzed into his office, learns that Salem herself is on her way and their defenses are already gone, knows that everyone is exhausted from a major battle… so when he decides to take all of Atlas, the majority of Mantle, and the Relics/Maiden they have to try and get out of Salem’s reach… Ruby says no. What’s her plan? She doesn’t have one. You’re just not allowed to leave.

The problem with the writing is it wants us to believe two contradictory things at once. Looking back, Ironwood is meant to be seen as an unambiguously bad guy in Volume 7, which we know because of scenes like Winter’s fight wherein she condemns him for everything he did in Volume 7, not just Volume 8 stuff like threatening to bomb Mantle. Yet at the same time, we’re simultaneously meant to believe that the group is made up of unambiguously good people who function as direct contrasts to Ironwood. Given what we got, these two things cannot coexist! Either Ironwood was a good man who the heroes backed for an entire volume and there’s no acknowledgment of that, or Ironwood was a bad man… who the heroes backed for an entire volume and there’s no acknowledgment of that either. If the group’s defense is, “We knew he was shady as hell. We knew what he was doing was wrong. We knew he was the bad guy here… but we still helped him maintain power, forward his plans, and reap the benefits of the flawed system for months on end”… that’s really bad. “I supported, assisted, and benefited from the guy who was shady as hell, but that’s fine because I felt uncomfortable about it the whole time” is not the hot take the fandom wants it to be. We cannot make these broad, sweeping statements about how the Atlas military—merged with its huntsmen—is an Evil Thing and then show scenes like, say, Jaune using his military grade huntsmen license to convince a bunch of civilians to follow his evacuation plan. The heroes cannot be Good and Pure while supporting the supposed villains and their systems; or, the villains cannot be purely Bad and Evil if they’re supported by the heroes.

The reality is that RWBY is badly written and this sort of simplistic, inconsistent writing doesn’t lend itself to a topic as complex as this one. To be frank, we don’t even know enough to make informed decisions about these actions because the world building is nearly nonexistent. What are these “resources” and how are the resources to patch a hole in the wall the same as the resources used to make Amity Tower into a world-wide communication device? How much power does Ironwood actually have and what other decisions has he made that impact Mantle? We never hear about any policies to explain things like the poor conditions, or the slum areas with the faunus. Why are the civilians so against the soldiers patrolling when we don’t see them abusing the public in any way, but we do see the grimm threatening them on the regular? Why does Ruby want Amity built so badly—willing to hurt Mantle to do it—when she knows a bigger army isn’t the answer/that telling people about Salem has almost always led to panic and betrayal? Is there really any difference between huntsmen and soldiers here? And if the answer is, “Yes. Huntsmen aren’t beholden to any power. That’s a good thing because following orders is Bad. They do what they think is best” than what are we supposed to make of someone like Rhodes who, apparently, did what he thought was best? If he’d been beholden to some superior there might have been a system in place to help Cinder. As it was, he was left to his own devices and a lot of fans are furious with the solution he, as one flawed individual, came up with. We simply don’t have a good picture of this world and when we do, things constantly contradict. It’s good for huntsmen to make their own choices, but only when Ruby does it, not Rhodes. It’s bad for heroes to keep the Salem secret and tell lies to their allies, but only when Ozpin does it, not Ruby. It’s bad for someone to try and save who they’ve got, but only when Ironwood does it, not Ruby, who apparently left Atlas after failing to create portals for her Uncle, Robyn, the Ace Ops, Pietro, Maria, and an entire army.

The way that the fandom gets around these problems—because too few are willing to just acknowledge that they are problems and RWBY is shoddily written—is by simplistically comparing RWBY’s military to a real world one. I cannot tell you how many posts I’ve come across that amount to, “Imagine thinking the teenage girls are the bad guys when a military general is right there, being a military general 😒 ” Those posts imply that fans like me are too stupid (too brainwashed, too close to “bootlickers”) to be critical of the military, but I assure you, that’s as far from true as can be. Those posts are trying to conflate real life politics with a fantasy story whose world looks nothing like our own. The is not a question of being critical of the military, it’s a question of being critical of RWBY as that fictional text… and that fiction never established any of the military problems we deal with in the real world. It might have (very easily), but it didn’t. Is Ironwood leveraging his people to conquer others or go after wealth? No, his world has literal, unambiguously evil monsters to fight. Does he amass power out of a desire to control the people? No, he lays out his exact thoughts on how these measures will help protect against those monsters and a witch. Does the military abandon its soldiers after war, leaving them with few resources and fewer prospects? No, we never see anyone struggling in that manner and one of the most prominent tragedies—Yang losing a limb—is answered by Ironwood personally sending a replacement to her home. Is the military at least built around propaganda, painting civilians an inaccurate picture of Freedom and Glory to convince them to fight? No, we see no propaganda, Ironwood—since Volume 2—has been focused on replacing people with robots and our entire story is built around one child’s desire to fight the exact same battle. Why do you want to be a huntress, Ruby? Because I want to help people! And that goal is never painted as a naïve outlook that Ruby becomes disillusioned with. Posts like the one mentioned above bank 100% on the reader mapping real life military criticism onto RWBY… rather than actually looking at the world RWBY built, what choices the characters make, the amount of information we’re given (little), and whether that in any way reflects our current, political problems. It doesn’t.

I’m never going to pretend there weren’t problems with Ironwood’s decisions. In fact, I love that this was actually a conflict in Volume 3 that gave both sides a fair shake: is it better to scare people and have an army at the ready to defend them, or is it better to keep them in the dark and potentially be defenseless? Ironwood’s kind heart bumping up against extreme measures is what made him compelling, especially when the story was having him grow in the “right” direction (AKA, listening to Ozpin). His treatment of Penny is another big issue, creating a whole ass person to serve as a military defense tool. That’s horrifying! So he’s absolutely had his problems long before the writing had him turn into a trigger-happy murderer, but part of the issue here is that the writing doesn’t acknowledge those problems in other characters. If Ironwood is “shady as hell” for forwarding a military agenda and using military resources… then so is Ruby, the leader who backed that for months. If Ironwood is “shady as hell” for funding the creation of a person to defend his kingdom… then so is Pietro, the scientist who not only built Penny, but came up with the idea in the first place. He’s not some defenseless victim who was forced by the evil Ironwood to create something morally reprehensible, he suggested it! The same way Winter wasn’t some defenseless victim who was forced by the evil Ironwood to go along with these plans. She supported them, agreed to be his Maiden, and was the first to suggest martial law! Yet Ruby, Pietro, Winter and their like are all presented as unambiguously Good People, whereas Ironwood is presented as the unambiguous Bad Guy—and when a lot of fans went, “But you’re not writing him like a Bad Guy? Especially when we compare him to the heroes?” we got his sudden, OOC murder streak in Volume 8. But it doesn’t work. Either the group is made up of morally gray/bad people because they did the things our antagonist Ironwood did, or Ironwood is not the morally gray/bad person the show insists he is (prior to Volume 8) because he did the same things as our heroes. You cannot give us that plot, those choices, that agency and insist on both at once. This problem has existed ever since we got an entire volume about how simplistically evil Ozpin is for keeping this secret… only for Ruby to immediately turn around and keep it herself, with no acknowledgement that either a) Ozpin wasn’t the bad guy then or b) Ruby is as bad as he is. But the show wants Ruby to be the Good Person in every situation, no matter how much she models her behavior after those she deems her enemies, and Ironwood’s arc only increased that problem tenfold.

#rwby #mymetas #tempoaryblogformightyjensblog

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just2bubbly · 3 years

Text

Cursed Souls

Masterlist

TLC Ship Week 2021!

*written for tlcshipweek2021- kaider for the prompt 'Cursed'

@kaiderforever

Summary:

"Thorne, Do you think I'm cursed?"

"What?"

"Uh- like do you think I'm cursed? that Cinder- s-she is-"

"Is suffering because of you?"

"You really love Cinder."

"What's that supposed to mean?"

...

Grief can make your mind think distressed thoughts, Kai with a haywire mind turns to Thorne for help- feeling overwhelmed just moments after the rebellion as he waits to hear news of Cinder.

A snippet of Kai alone with his thoughts as he waits outside the OT following the brutal injury of Cinder in Winter.

Ship: Kaider

Words: 2.5k

Genre: Angst, Hurt-Comfort

Prompt: 'Cursed'

*Sort-of canon-divergence.

Kai's Perspective:

Saying that he was anxious would be an understatement of his (let's assume long) lifetime. Everything around him was intense. After making sure that the Earthens were in a secure place, Kai followed by Torin had hastily returned to the Throne room. He could not focus on anything after Iko had told him that Cinder had gone to face Levana- alone.

Kai was praying to anyone who would listen- he prayed for Cinder's safety. Everything around him had been so rushed in the last few days- he had been high on adrenaline since the time he had helped Cress stick to the plan, coming back for crowning Levana as the Empress, to the sudden outburst of Lunars, the rebellion, him being captured and later escaping.

Kai was not sure how he remained on his own two feet walking through the pale halls of Artemisia Palace.

"Kaito, she shall be fine", Torin assured.

Kai was not going to buy it- how could Cinder be fine with a tyrant like Levana, who was likely trying to kill her?

He yelled at his own mind for letting Cinder go alone to confront Levana.

All of a sudden the sound of gunshots was heard, followed by a cry of pain making Kai look in horror at his advisor. He hoped it was anyone but Cinder. His heart was pumping loudly- at some inhuman speed and the rush of adrenaline forced him to walk faster than humanly possible. As the elegant and large doors of the throne room became visible, memories- horrors of incidents that would likely haunt him for the rest of his days flooded in Kai's mind.

Now was not the time to be sentimental- it was the time to be brave and help Cinder... if she was in a position to be helped.

The sight that was before his eyes stopped him in his tracks. Kai was dumbstruck at the sight of so much blood pooling in the throne room- the red a stark contrast to the pale marble floor and the real condition of the usually-disguised face of Levana- the face behind the glamour was enough to make him go stiff and be rooted to the spot.

However, Torin shook him out of his reverie to point out things- people. No, not just any people, his newly made friends.

He exhaled sharply when he saw Thorne, Scarlet and Wolf alive. He could not say the same when his eyes fell on Cress and Cinder. A sob escaped his shaking lips as Kai ordered Torin to call for doctors.

As he ran towards her with a thumping heart, he hoped he would not collapse at the sight of Cinder's misery.

A pool of dark red blood had surrounded her, her bosom had a knife- it did not take much to conclude that Levana had stabbed Cinder. His cheeks were damp with moisture as he huddled next to her- not sure what to do. Cinder coughed blood, her face gone pale because of the loss of so much blood. She could not cry but the worried lines along her forehead full with beads of sweat as she nibbled on her lower lip to think of anything but the wound- to avoid screaming with agony were enough to speak about her misery.

"Cinder," he cried through trembling lips.

"Kai, help Cress first. I won't-" she said through irregular words. Even in death, Cinder thought about saving others above herself.

"Shh, she is going to be fine. You're going to be fine." He said with questionable certainty. He had never known any person who had been stabbed to know how fine the after-effects were. Yet he refused to lose hope.

"Kai," she said smiling a bit sarcastically. As if both of them knew that they were lying to each other- to console, to convince.

"Don't speak I'm here- help is coming. Try to breathe. You're going to be fine." He said trying to assure him more than her.

"No- listen, Kai, look at me I might not have enough-" she hacked blood mid-sentence. Her stuttering words were cut short due to her current state. However, Kai very well knew what she was to say.

"All my ears to you, Cinder." He smiled at her, the same cheeky smile he had shown her at the garage, where they had met for the first time.

"Don't mourn for me Kai," she said. "-And I know I will not make it. My time as the revolutionary is over. I was not meant to be Queen or Princess. I trust you to do what you can for everyone," she muttered through ragged breaths, stopping from time to time to inhale sharply.

Kai would mourn for her death even if she prohibited it, even if it was forbidden. His throat ached as he tried to form sentences, probably not the last one she would hear.

"Cinder you are going to live through it. You will live long enough to rule yourself and do what you can for Luna." He said as his voice threatened to quiver, to cry out loud. He knew she was slipping away from him, as her glazed eyes rolled at the back of her head, eyes that would spontaneously shake looking at the ceiling. He would not lose her- hadn't he suffered enough grief to last a lifetime?

She closed her eyes and as calm resided over her features, Kai thought he had lost her. He could not hold it anymore, he cried not giving a damn- the Emperor of EC was crying for his beloved who was in his lap. Dying.

"No, Kai. I am a lowly mechanic. The Emperor should not cry for someone like me- Be h-happy Kai," she said with her eyes closed. It felt like she could bear to gaze into his eyes.

Kai begged for a miracle. How he wished that he would wake up and all this would just be a bad dream. He hoped that Cinder would live to see that she was never just a lowly mechanic. How she was always more than someone to him!

She cleared her mouth to say something instead a sharp breath was inhaled. Her lips now red with her own blood.

"You were the happy ending to my tragic life, Kai. I hope you remember that," She murmured.

He did not know if it was her or fragments of his own imagination speaking to him. He watched over as the others raised her and lay her across a stretcher. She was taken out to someplace where Kai followed blindly. They argued over something with Torin in the corner as he kept losing his mind- little by little.

He wanted to tell her, wanted to say them till she believed it.

"His ending without her would no longer be happy."

Still, he could not mutter any words as he choked on his own sobs. he was not brave enough to think that Cinder was dying inside. His haywire mind failing to register the happenings around him.

Torin appeared beside him and held him tight, unknowingly muttering soothing words- not knowing how to comfort the grieving Emperor. He stood outside white doors while Cinder lay inside, he cried his heart out on Torin's shoulder having had no clue if she was alive or not. He refused to listen to anything, he refused to talk- to ask about her state.

His mind played back the whole scenario over and over trying to make sense of his messed-up present.

Selene had been a mystery to him, she was a lost princess born out of his imagination, Torin used to describe it as a lost cause once. When he gave up on her, Cinder walked into his life. When the matter was revealed, he had hope. Selene and Cinder- just different names had been his hope for a long time, his ray of hope was struggling indoors. She was far away from him, from the world. He clutched on tightly to Torin trying to make sense of his falling apart life.

"T-Torin, is she a-a- okay?" he inquired.

"She will be."

"You think so?"

"Yes, Kai. She is a strong woman."

He remained silent for a long time- staring at the doors that would not allow him to enter. Trying to avoid thinking about the 'what-ifs'.

He did not move from his position for the entire day, keeping himself rooted to the seat before the door, with Torin beside him.

"You killed her, Kai. You are responsible for her fate... if not for you she would have never been drawn into this mess-"

"-She would not be dying right now"

"How selfish of you to use her for your own gain!?"

"She was just a poor girl aching to be loved- and look what you did!"

"You cursed her"

"'She is dead because of YOU"

He opened his eyes- panting for breath. All the voices sounded like Levana... she was dead right? He had never bothered to check if she was alive or dead, as he was in the haste due to Cinder's state- could she have survived?

Realizing he was just hyperventilating, it was a nightmare- nothing about it should trouble Kai into thinking that the tyrannical Queen was alive. He might have dozed off, sitting in the medical chamber of the palace, he thought trying to make his mind stray away from the loud thoughts of his mind.

'Was he cursed?'

Kai did not have many people in his life that he would have claimed to love, but the ones he did were either dead or dying.

'He had loved his parents, hadn't he? And where were they now?', He thought bitterly.

They hadn't even be buried like royals ought to, their goods burnt down to prevent the spreading of the disease to Kai or others. Their bodies were cremated in an incinerator as a precaution. Kai could not even be near them, being asked to see the whole ordeal from far away for his own safety. He had lost both of them to Leutomosis.

He loved Cinder and there she was a few metres away from him, perhaps already gone on another journey beyond life.

Maybe he was a cursed person, otherwise, why would all his loved ones die? Was he not capable of love? Could he not love anyone without having to lose them? And the ones he loved would all wither and die, while he watched them from far away?

Or was she the cursed one?

The girl who could not be loved, the one who would have a near-death experience, every time someone tried loving her. Cinder and Kai- were they two cursed souls?

Didn't she say, 'You were the happy ending to my tragic life.' and hadn't he thought, 'His ending without her would no longer be happy'?

Did she think he was responsible for her tragic life- her death? Hadn't she been an outcast for a major part of her life thanks to Kai, who failed to realize the sorrow of the cyborgs living in his own nation?

Were they just going to be each other's broken, sorrowful endings?

Not able to cope with his overwhelming thoughts, he looked around for Torin, only to find him nowhere.

He gawked at Thorne, who sat adjoining him and asked, "Thorne, Do you think I'm cursed?"

Thorne was confused, to say the least, maybe he was being too vague so he briefed, "Uh- like do you think I'm cursed? that Cinder- s-she is-"

"Is suffering because of you?" he provided, as Kai failed to continue. He nodded slightly, confirming that he was thinking the same thing.

Much to his surprise, Thorne smiled, not the flirty smile that usually did but a genuine smiled that reached his eyes and said, "You really love Cinder."

Taken aback by his remark he asked, "What's that supposed to mean?"

"You are so alike, I can only imagine if the roles were reversed she would be here thinking the same thing."

"You think so?"

"I know so"

"What makes you so confident?"

"You had no idea how tensed Cinder was when you decided to marry Levana to prevent the wolf-hybrid soldiers from doing more damage. She never said it but she thought that she was responsible for all the mess created in your life."

"Okay," he replied, not knowing what else to say.

"Kai, what makes you think you are cursed anyways?"

"It's just- you know, all the people that I have cared about are dead and I do care about Cinder and she is inside fighting to stay alive- I just think I'm cursed, not capable of loving people," he explained.

Kai, would not admit it but saying it aloud made it seem foolish. Thorne would likely laugh at him for feeling he was 'cursed'- like was he even thinking through before popping the question to Thorne.

"Really Kai, sometimes I wonder the future of your country if you happen to be sentimental- how did we get two so feeble-minded monarchs to look after us?!" He asked, dramatically- can always rely on Thorne to disguise his sorrow with charm.

Kai rolled his eyes thinking to himself, 'why did he bother in the first place?' and looked away.

A sigh escaped him and he stated, "You are not cursed, Kai."

Now Thorne did have his attention, it might have been the first sincere thing he said after Cress was taken in OT. Kai realized how he was not the only one waiting for some news outside the medical chamber, not the only one who was afraid.

"You care about your advisor, umm what's his name?"

"Torin," Kai provided.

"Yeah Torin- you care about him, probably look up to him as well and he is neither dead nor trying hard to stay alive. You care about your people and I don't think all of them are dead right now, now are they?"

"No, they are not," he said even though it was a rhetorical question.

"I'm just afraid," he admitted after a long time to which Thorne honestly replied, "Me as well."

He looked at Thorne, trying to understand his grief- if Cress did not make it, Thorne would not be able to live with the guilt- knowing very well that he was responsible for her loss, that if not for him stabbing her in the stomach she would be alive.

"They would make it, right?" he asked, terrified of what Thorne would say.

He did not reply just pressed his lips in a thin line and looked before him. None of them was capable enough to answer it. So, Kai looked ahead as well and prayed because that's what all he could do. Pray.

"Kai stop thinking about bullshit things like being cursed."

Kai nodded, pointing out that he was listening and likely not going to think about how he might be cursed.

He thought before saying it aloud, rolling the words over and over before finally saying them.

"You are really a nice guy, Thorne. No wonder Cress really likes you."

A/N: I had promised I had come up with angst, and see here I am- keeping my promise to you guys.

I know I have knocked a lot of medical facts, I know she should be unconscious within seconds but I just choose to overlook it for my plot. I wanted some deep farewell/ goodbye shit before Cinder becomes unconscious (builds up the angst you know).

I wanted to this idea for a long time now, Cinder's almost-death through Kai's POV. This fic was likely going to have a different ending than one the it has now- I was just going to live the ending in grey area but I had to change it to keep up with the prompt 'Cursed' for ship week. Don't blame me writing angst, I am just writing ship week prompts- and apparently all of them happen to be angst!

Tell me what's on your mind after reading it!

Votes and comments are always appreciated.

Thanks for reading!

Taglist: @cinderswrench @gingerale2017 @linhcinder686 @shellyseashell @ladyvesuvia @shelbylmkaider @levanariddlebackup @cindersassasin @kaider-is-my-otp (Tell me if you wanna be added/removed)

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masterweaverx · 3 years

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RWBY Parents from Best to Worst

That’s right, everybody, I’m a-going to rank how terrible these people are to and for their kids! For the sake of covering as many parents as I can, I am defining ‘parent’ as either ‘legal guardian’ or ‘the one that gave birth to you’, and excluding relationships that are explicitly something else. That does mean that we’re going to miss out on some very important people, though, so before we begin, let’s have some Honorable Mentions!

Yang Xiao Long and Winter Schnee: Professional Momsisters

“That’s why big sisters come first, to protect the ones that come after.” I don’t know who said that to these two, if anybody actually did, but it’s a quote that most definitely applies to them. Not only would they take a bullet (or a sword, or a fireball) for their younger siblings, they took the time out to give them affection and training that they needed when their own parents weren’t quite doing the job. If I absolutely had to rank one of them as the better momsister, I’d say Yang, but that’s really only because Yang had less to deal with overall; a depressed single dad not being able to pull himself together just doesn’t stack up with an abusive powermonger, a self-loathing drunkard, and all the institutional bigotry and pressure of Atlas. Plus, you know, Winter went into the military for a bit. Still, pretty good track record considering!

Klein Sieben: Doing the work of seven good dads

Look, there is only one reason Klein wasn’t listed before the momsisters, and that reason is that he is technically the hired help (and could therefore become the fired help). He is, hands down, a better surrogate parent than Yang and Winter, providing guidance and care to all the Schneeblings and very effectively undoing the damage Jacques Gele (HE DOES NOT GET TO BE CALLED SCHNEE!) did to them. And he even helped out Willow! If he was allowed to do more, he would absolutely be My Real Dad of the year.

Qrow Branwen: “The only one that gets to be sad in this house is me!”

Qrow has a lot of flaws. Like, so so many flaws. As Yang said in a noncanon spinoff, he’s cool but not exactly a role model. Thing is, you don’t have to be a role model to be a good parent--you just have to make sure your kids (or nieces in this case) get good advice and the opportunity to grow into the best versions of themselves they can be. And when Qrow’s not beating himself up or drowning his sorrows, he’s actually very good at helping Yang and Ruby. Honestly the only reason he’s not on the actual list is because he’s technically not a parent.

Uncle Copper: Adopting a blind kid automatically makes you cool

So here we have a character that appeared in a single flashback in the novels, but from what we do know he was pretty likely to be a good guy. Like, raising a blind kid is hard enough; raising a blind kid in a desert after their actual parents got nommed by sand is so, so much more difficult. And yet, this guy said ‘If nobody else is going to adopt this kid I will!’ and by all measures he was a very caring and loving guy. Also, shout-out to the tribe, who took Fox in after Copper got killed by some maniac (and also killed said maniac). Fox has had a rough life, but it’s been filled with supportive people. Not everyone can say that.

Starr Sanzang: She put up with Sun

Sure, she’s only had one scene in one novel, but Starr showed patience and caring and... probably did a lot to make sure Sun stays as aggressively cheery and patient as he is. Plus she’s got a dojo in Vacuo now... okay, I’ll be honest, I don’t know nearly enough about her to really assess her. Still, as far as cousins go, Sun Wukong could do a lot worse. And there are the implications of their motifs to factor in...

Rhodes: If you’d done even just a little bit more--!

So, reasonably, what would you do when you see a little girl enslaved with a shock collar? Would you (A) get the girl out of there, (B) arrest the woman doing it, (C) try to get the girl therapy, or (D) all of the above? If you picked (E) secretly train the girl in swordplay so she can join a huntsman academy when she comes of age, then congratulations! You’ve given her hope! Good for you! And what if she snaps after five years of literal torture, kills her abuser, and then turns to you for comfort and/or approval? Welp, obviously she’s an irredeemable criminal and you have to bring her in, crushing all the faith she had in you and herself.

Seriously Rhodes, dropped the ball hard on that one. I’m only mentioning you because you had such a serious impact on Cinder’s development.

Brother Gods: Creating and destroying entire species

Like, okay. Look. These are the two that made humanity, so an argument could be made that they’re humanity’s parents. But, by the strict and arbitrary rules I have selected, they aren’t parents. And even if they were, they would be just the worst sort of parents possible. Darkbro is bad enough, what with viewing only strength as valuable and creating the Grimm and, you know, annihilating humanity that one time, but he’s at least honest and honorable. Not like the cryptic Lightbro, who doesn’t bother making sure people understand him, who doesn’t even keep his own promises to his brother... I get that they’re basically overpowered children. Yeah, they are. Still... kinda terrible.

So, now that that’s all done, let’s get to the actual list! After the break, so you don’t get stuck scrolling a lot. RWBY parents, from best to worst, are as follows:

23. Saphron and Terra Cotta-Arc: Two moms are better than none!

If I’m rating all the parents, and I am, then I have to acknowledge their flaws. And... these two don’t have any! Okay, fine, they used Adrian in a criminal scheme that one time (and that was literally just asking him to cry on command) and maybe Terra’s overworked and, to be fair, parenting a young kid is a lot different than parenting a teenager. But not only did they support their kid, they helped out all the kids that needed to room with them for a while! Saphron may also qualify as a momsister, depending on how well the Arcs managed their massive-numbered horde of kids. Look, the point is: Excellent parents. Bam.

22. Yatsuhashi's Parents: Their slipups weren’t their fault

When your kid can wipe your memories and you don’t know about it, you’re bound to get a few mistakes down the line. Luckily for everyone, after the whole incident with Hiyoko Yatsu came clean, and his parents made absolutely sure that he understood (A) that having such an ability was a big responsibility and (B) that even though he really screwed up he was NOT evil. Given the man that Yatsuhashi is now, I’m pretty confident in calling them great parents--even if they only appeared in a book flashback.

21. Coco's Dad: He exists!

That’s... honestly all I really know about him. He’s mentioned once in the books, and Coco has a few brothers. I’m kind of just assuming he’s a good parent from that, even if he didn’t figure out how to help Coco with her claustrophobia. So... yeah, shrug, Coco’s got a dad.

20: Ghira and Kali Belladonna: Actually marvelous people

Loving. Caring. Mentoring, protective. You may be asking why these two aren’t lower on the list, given that they are absolutely great for Blake, and I’ll have to admit that they only really made one slipup--letting Adam talk with Blake.

And okay, look. The thing about people like Adam is that they don’t start out showing their true colors. It’s always a slow, gentle broil. Blake was young and stupid, Adam was cute and edgy, and these parents want their daughter to be happy. So not twigging on what Adam really was--or at least not being able to properly convince Blake--that’s entirely understandable. And they did instill her with a strong enough moral code to leave when enough was enough, and they absolutely welcomed her back with open arms. Frankly, if the lower-listing parents didn’t exist, I would happily say they are the best parents in the show.

19. Pietro Polendina: He took Penny’s death flags

When you carve out part of your literal soul to bring your girl back from the dead, you get MAJOR parenting props. And even beyond that, Pietro is an absolutely caring and supportive father to everyone’s favorite bundle of sunshine. Even when she’s put in the rough position she was in, Pietro did his best to help her out. His one big flaw, though, is being overprotective and a bit presumptive. He does want Penny to live her best life, but he also can be just a touch too quick to say he knows what’s best for her. To his credit, when he’s called out on it, he does mend his ways. And he’s at least better then the GENERAL...

18. Salem and Ozma: Good parents, surprisingly!

Sure, Salem decided that world conquest was a good idea and wanted to put down anybody that wasn’t directly from her bloodline. Sure, she psychologically manipulated her husband when he had doubts. And, being fair, it’s highly likely that her four daughters were killed in the crossfire of her and Ozma’s little tuff. But! That was likely an accident, she’s been shown to still clearly mourn their passing, and before that point she absolutely loved and adored the girls. Ozma gets points for being a generally good person who fell in love with her before she became unstable and, honestly, was just trying to help his girls escape... and hey, he blames himself for their deaths. As does Salem.

Just because they’re kind of directly responsible for a LOT of Remnant’s woes doesn’t mean they aren’t good parents!

17. Will and Meg Scarlatina: Estranged but loving...

Yes, I know Rooster Teeth hasn’t officially confirmed that Bill is Will. I still believe though! Also it makes for a great picture, in any case.

Look, you can be the best and most loving parents ever--and from what we saw in the novels Will was definitely loving--but if you split up, your kid is going to get a little stressed. And hey, it’s not like these two were terrible people! Velvet’s just got a lot going on because of things entirely out of her control. Parents are people too, but sometimes the stress of one situation will leak out into another. Just... give people time to adapt.

16. Nicholas Schnee: The man, the legend, the titan!

Nicholas Schnee is the rockstar success story of Remnant. Some guy from Mantle put in all the work to make the SDC, and honestly from what little we know about him he was probably a great guy! But if we’re registering parental goodness, well... he wasn’t quite smart enough to warn Willow away from abusive gold diggers, and he’s not present when the story starts. So, yeah, even if he was a good parent otherwise--and I think he would be--he kinda... didn’t put in the work to prevent Willow breaking later. Still. Not deliberately terrible!

15. Li and An Ren: Don’t die in front of your kids, folks!

Seriously, it traumatizes them, especially if there’s a Grimm assault going on at the same time. Oh, double-especially if you reassure them that everything will be fine literally the second before the roof collapses on your head. And... well, okay, you couldn’t help your son and some random girl being the only survivors...

In all seriousness, that whole situation was absolutely out of their control. And before their deaths they were shown to be loving, wise, giving good advice to Lie Ren and helping him understand what the right thing to do was. Honestly, if they hadn’t died in front of him he’d be a lot better, mentally speaking. His trauma is not their fault. Plus Li went out distracting the big Grimm so Lie could run. No greater love hath man, indeed.

14. Summer Rose: Loving mother, ticking trauma bomb

When she was around, Summer Rose was probably the best mom Yang and Ruby could ask for. Sure, everyone could be exaggerating a little on how great a person she was--fond memories and grief can do that--but even taking that into account, she was probably a great and wonderful woman to be raised by. And hey, it turns out the reason she vanished was to go confront basically the Devil Herself so her kids wouldn’t have to live in a world where she existed! I can totally get the logic behind that.

And to be fair, “I’m going to do this on my own so nobody else suffers” is a pretty common character flaw among the RWBY cast. There are entire arcs where each character learns to overcome it. Still, wandering off on your lonesome without telling anyone was not the smartest move, Summer. Especially if you expected to die--which, you know, Devil Herself, high probability. And you know, if you had died, that would be bad enough, but now Ruby’s practically certain to have to fight your grimmified self. At least she figured out what happened to you before Salem decided to hammer in the trauma button, so she’ll be a little more ready, but... seriously.

13. The Arc Parents: Look, you try juggling eight kids!

To be fair, neither Arc parent has appeared on screen, but we can derive some of their traits from their kids. Jaune’s father said women like confident men. Jaune’s mother said strangers are friends you haven’t met yet. Jaune’s sister moved out of the house and (it’s implied) was happier for it. Jaune himself took his family’s ancestral weapon and ran off to Beacon to become a hero without any training whatsoever....

I get the impression that these two are not horrible parents, but they aren’t really stellar ones either. They slip up, don’t understand their children, give some really bad advice (as well as really good advice), and... look, it’s kind of middle of the road here. The Arcs could be wonderful people that just weren’t ready for the complexities of raising eight kids. I come from a big family myself, I know it can be stressful. And their kids turned out well anyway, so...

12. The Mother of Pyrrha Nikos: You taught your girl too well

Hero complexes are funny things. And Pyrrha Nikos... in retrospect, she was really hiding a lot of insecurities under that facade. Laying it all at this woman’s feet is unfair, I’ll admit, a lot of that came from being The Mistral Champion. But... with stories and fairy tales of heroes, it’s not hard to imagine a genuinely loving mother making sure her daughter knew right from wrong, always knew to act with mercy and protect the weak, and made her hardline into being a hero at the cost of her own... sense of self. It wouldn’t even be something either of them noticed, really. Good people can make bad choices sometimes.

11: Ilia's Parents: Oh god, can good people make bad choices...

So the idea of getting Ilia up to Atlas for a better life, that rocks (if you assume the propaganda to be true). And I’m certain her parents absolutely did what they did out of love. But what they did, you see, was tell Ilia to hide a very important part of herself from anybody who could find out, since it was likely she would be kicked out of the school she was in if people found out she was a faunus.

Which actually, did a lot of damage.

I mean look at Ilia now! She has trouble expressing herself until she explodes, she follows a crowd instead of her own morals, she broke down in tears when she finally did the right thing... Conceal Don’t Feel is never good advice, and these two went on and said ‘Honey, because of racism, you have to hide the fact you literally change color when you have emotions.’ Oh, and then they died offscreen--again, not their fault, but boy howdy did it give Ilia a complex.

10. Taiyang Xiao Long: Slumped at just the wrong time

Honestly, Tai as he is now is a wonderful dad. Supportive of his daughters in their time of need, able to lift their mood with a tasteless joke or two, frankly if we were assessing just how they were in the moment... I’d still be a little critical of his refusal to talk about the girls’ mothers, but hey, that’s minor. Compared to, you know...

Okay, so this needs serious addressing. Taiyang cannot be blamed for falling into a depressive slump. People can hurt, and need time to heal. That said, his depressive slump is at the root of Yang’s many issues, and frankly if she hadn’t had to pull herself together for Ruby she would be a major mess. It’s a bad situation all round, even if it’s not his fault.

9. Willow Schnee: “Kids, don’t wind up like me.”

Drowning her sorrows isn’t the best way to handle being stuck in an abusive marriage, but it was the best way Willow could think of. And, yeah, that really cut into her skills as a mom... but despite that, she did her darnedest to make sure her kids had what they needed to free themselves. Heck, once Jacques was out of the picture, she even pulled herself together and risked her life to save them! A broken women, to be sure, but not a shattered one.

8. Neptune's Mother: She exists!

Being fair, there’s not a lot to go on here. We know Neptune’s mother is a lawyer (insert evil lawyer joke), that their family are famous swimmers, and that his brother caused his hydrophobia by tossing him into the water. It does paint a bit of a picture, though, of everyone having expectations for Neptune that he was not able to live up to. Pretty poor parenting, if it’s true.

7. Nora Valkyrie's Mom: Come get your girl!

Literally the only factoid we have about Mama Valkyrie is that she abandoned her to the Grimm. We don’t know when this was, and it’s feasible it’s a case of ‘Oh No I Lost Track Of My Daughter In The Panic!’ But given we see young Nora scavenging for scraps of food... I’m not optimistic on her parenting skills.

6. Raven Branwen: "I wasn’t part of your life, how could I ruin it?”

Raven is just not a good mom at all. And, surprisingly, she seems to know it. Or that’s one interpretation of her character. The thing about Raven is that she plays her cards close to chest. We still don’t know why she left her daughter, and we only have inklings about the reasoning behind her behavior once they reunited. In the end, though... she did concede to Yang, she did apologize for something, and there’s a very deliberate indication that a lot of her behavior is a mask to both others and herself. So, terrible mother, for the moment, but self-aware.

5. Salem's Father: Explicitly noted as cruel

We get a bit more about Salem’s father from ‘Fairy Tales Of Remnant’, how he became possessive of the last remnant of his wife and locked her away in a tower. From what we know of him, that’s all he did--lock her away and not let her go. Still makes him a terrible dad. And with this, we transition firmly into the most definitively abusive parent figures. Everyone before this might have the excuse of not realizing what was going on or having their own damage, but now we’ve got parents actively deciding to make their kids’ lives worse.

4. Jacques Gelé: HE DOES NOT GET TO BE CALLED SCHNEE!

His children are property, to be manipulated and traded for the benefit of the company he married into, and any defiance is to be quelled instantly. He is manipulative, scheming, abusive, and frankly the worst sort of scumbag to ever wear a white suit. He does have the single redeeming quality of only leaning into the punishment if it benefits him; nobody would ever accuse the man of being needlessly cruel. His name is Jacques, and you will hate him... especially on the rare occasions he actually has a point.

3. The Marigolds: There’s no peppy tagline, they’re just mean

There’s not a picture of these jerks on the wiki, so you’ll have to make do with the woman that is no longer their daughter. See all that empty space around her? That’s about as close as they ever got. May spells out how much they hated her for having a heart, and how little they cared about her as a person, in one epic line. And even if they have other redeeming qualities (unlikely) we can tell they’d probably still be terrible parents because of how sleazy May’s cousin is. Honestly, for once I’m glad some characters don’t get pictures. They don’t deserve to be remembered. They aren’t even the cool kind of evil, they’re just... gross.

2. Marcus Black: Look if you train your kid to be a killer...

...you’re going to have to expect them to kill you. I mean, you basically ripped apart Mercury’s legs, man. He had to get cyberlegs. Also, you used your semblance to steal his. Which, given that semblances come from aura, and that aura is a manifestation of the soul, is kinda... that’s a deeply personal and intimate violation. Sure, you got your assassin kid. And can we talk about the fact that Marcus was an assassin? It’s not a pretty job. I guess I can see all the abuse--physical and mental--as a good way to train up another assassin, but... geeze, if that’s your goal, why did you use your own kid?! Why not hire some angsty teenager?! Yeah, no, Markus Black stood high on my list of parental monsters... and was only toppled by the arrival of one other.

1. Madame of the Glass Unicorn: She only appeared in one episode and she rocketed to the top of this list, that should tell you something

Let’s be clear here: What Madame did to Cinder is bad enough. It was literally slavery. Enforced by a shock collar. And because the collar looked like a necklace, she pulled it off in front of I don’t know how many clients. Granted, said clients were racists, why else would they be customers at a ‘We Do Not Serve Faunus’ hotel, but keeping her torture just out of the public eye very clearly shows both that she knew what she was doing was illegal and that she was clever enough to avoid detection.

Oh... and then there are her birth daughters.

With Cinder, she was abusive to a dangerous degree. With her daughters, she was permissive, not only allowing but encouraging them to bully their adoptive sister. The whole point of parenthood is to teach your children how to become the best version of themselves, but Madame didn’t even bother to instill a semblance of morality in these girls. She used them as extensions of her will, and they obliviously played along because that was all they knew.

You’d think the biggest monster on the show would be the Grimm woman, but no--it’s some random lady with a hotel.

#RWBY #Analysis #Ranking #I had the urge to make this #Feel free to disagree #Some of this is opinion-based

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stufftippywrote · 3 years

Text

perfect

Cicadas sing a sharp song in the trees. The heat blisters the pavement. It’s a miserable summer afternoon for most people, which is why Wei Ying loves it. It’s nothing compared to sticky, swampy Yunmeng summers. In dry heat like this, the sun feels good and the trees are brilliant green and Wei Ying loves being alive.

He doesn’t love being in class, but at least everyone is miserable along with him in this heat. Lots of mopping brows, lots of unsatisfied murmurs. Is there any relief to be found in Gusu on such a day? Some have heard there’s a lake a bit further up in the mountains, big enough for swimming. But they’re not allowed to go up there; it’s off limits to everyone but Lan inner disciples. Only Wei Ying knows for a fact that it’s there; that’s because he’s been sneaking off up there every night since summer school started.

Lan Qiren enters and the room falls silent. The frantic wiping of sweat of brows continues, a current of activity in the quiet classroom. Lan Qiren surveys them silently and frowns. He’s sweating, too.

“Due to the excessive heat,” he says, coughing, “the upper grounds of Cloud Recesses will be opened to students for the duration of the day. That includes the lake. The back hills and the waterfall are still off limits.” Nobody picks up this last bit, because the minute Lan Qiren says “lake,” the room starts to buzz with whispers.

Not even Lan Qiren can quell them; there’s a torrent of nervous energy in this room, and it won’t survive an entire lesson. Sure enough, about twenty minutes before the end of the class students start gathering their things as though they’re ready to bolt. Wei Ying knows they’re only waiting for one of them to take the lead, and they’ll all start filing out with or without Lan Qiren’s say-so. Well, that’s a position he’s always happy to fill. He stretches out, grabs his backpack, and leaves the room without a word or a look back.

He heads up the stone stairs carved into the mountain, backpack slung loosely over one arm, whistling to himself. The other students will have some time catching up to him; he knows the way to the lake, and they don’t; besides, they have to go change, and Wei Ying always keeps his swimsuit in his backpack, just in case. So he climbs the stairs solo and pushes through the line of vegetation that lies between the path and the lake.

He’s about to emerge from the trees when a splash draws his attention. Quickly, he hides and peers over at the lake.

Someone’s already there and swimming. Wei Ying sees dark hair, pulled into a neat topknot, and the lines of what looks like a fairly strong body, blurred by the moving water. Some student has beat him to it. Which is a little surprising, because Wei Ying’s the only one with the chutzpah to sneak off in this direction when they’re supposed to be somewhere else. He watches in kind of dumb fascination as the swimmer moves to the near edge of the pond and surfaces.

Oh. Oh, that explains it.

It’s Lan Qiren’s annoyingly perfect nephew, Lan Zhan. Lan Zhan, who is too good to attend classes with students his own age. Lan Zhan who, rather than making friends with such students, serves as a sort of disciplinarian, regularly snapping unruly students back into line with nothing more than a cold glance from his admittedly perfect face. Lan Zhan, who Wei Ying had to learn to avoid early in the summer, because he kept catching him trying to sneak out or tiptoe into forbidden places. That Lan Zhan.

Wei Ying steels himself to be utterly annoyed by whatever happens next.

Lan Zhan lingers for a time, head and shoulders above water. Then he approaches a large rock where his things sit in a neat white bundle. In one fluid movement, he lifts himself up with both hands on the rock and swings into a sitting position, his toes in the water.

It all happens like slow motion. Wei Ying’s brain sputters, then lurches, then goes completely on the fritz.

He’s—he’s—he’s actually perfect.

Wei Ying knew he was perfect, but that was an annoyance like everything. The beauty of his face was a mockery of everything Wei Ying stands for. He could find words to speak when faced with that stern face, but his words have dried up now, because Lan Zhan’s body is – Lan Zhan’s muscles are –

He has no idea Wei Ying is watching him. His face is serene, his body relaxed, and the sun beats on him like a spotlight, turning the edges of his skin to gold. Wei Ying is gobsmacked. How dare he. How dare he sit there with that expression, not knowing that he’s turning Wei Ying’s insides into molten lava just by being there … with thighs like that .. and a bare chest like a sculpted statue … and good god his arms, and his shoulders, and he already has an annoyingly perfect face, only now it’s matched up with that --- that body, and Wei Ying has never wanted to close his mouth around a drop of water the way he does now, as water trickles down Lan Zhan’s chest.

Oh, and he’s wearing a fucking Speedo.

It’s common knowledge that a Speedo looks stupid on like 95 percent of guys, and yet Lan Zhan looks as though it was created solely to fit him. And nothing is left to the imagination. Holy fuck, that knowledge is going to burn though him until he’s cinders. He struggles to concentrate on something – anything but that.

It’s going to be a very different experience the next time Lan Zhan disciplines him.

Oh. Oh, now his mind is up and running again, but the direction it’s going is dangerous. Lan Zhan angry with him, Lan Zhan throwing him against a wall, Lan Zhan tossing him to the grass. Standing over him. Kneeling over him. Those powerful thighs and well-muscled arms. A hard hand on his wrists, unyielding no matter how much Wei Ying resists. Lan Zhan forcing Wei Ying to his knees. Lan Zhan between Wei Ying’s legs, edging forward, pinning him down as…

“Fuck,” he swears, suddenly and far too loudly. Lan Zhan looks up. Eyes suddenly sharp, he leaps to his feet and scans the tree line. Wei Ying has no choice. He just hopes Lan Zhan doesn’t glance between his legs when he shows himself.

He steps forward from the trees, waving a halfhearted hand. “Hi, Lan Zhan,” he says with a grin. “Fancy meeting you here.”

Lan Zhan’s brows knit. “You’re not supposed to be here.”

“Oh, but I am!” Wei Ying keeps moving forward, despite his best intentions. Lan Zhan’s body is like a gravity well, drawing him closer. “They lifted the restriction so we could all come up and swim today. It’s brutal out,” he says, squinting and raising against the sun although he’s actually perfectly comfortable.

“Oh.” Lan Zhan looks at him warily. “So others are coming?”

He says it evenly, but Wei Ying wonders if there isn’t some trepidation there. He’s perturbed enough that Wei Ying’s entered his space; what are twenty-some classmates going to do to him? “They’re changing,” he says. “They’ll be here in a few minutes.” He grins. “Just you and me for the time being.”

He thinks the look in Lan Zhan’s eyes is anger, but he doesn’t know for sure. “How do you know this place?” he asks, sounding unsure and not at all like his usual gentlemanly self.

“Oh, your uncle explained how to get here when he gave us the notice this morning,” Wei Ying lies. “I just didn’t have to go back and change like the others, so I got here faster.” He taps his backpack. “Swimsuit’s in here.”

Lan Zhan’s eyes widen. “You’re going to change … here?”

“Why not? Ain’t nobody here but us boys,” Wei Ying says, and winks. He’s suddenly terrified of showing Lan Zhan his naked skin, but he can’t afford to show it. He strips off his T-shirt.

Lan Zhan turns as though offended by the sight. Well, sure he would be, since no one else can measure up to him, Wei Ying thinks. “Hey Lan Zhan, is this what you do while the rest of us are suffering in class?” he asks breezily, stripping off his shorts and boxers. Lan Zhan’s back remains resolutely turned. “Just swimming out here like a fish all day long? I bet I could beat you in a race.”

“There’s not … room here to race,” Lan Zhan says. He still won’t look.

“We’ll go down to Biling Lake next time,” Wei Ying challenges. “You can look at me now. The swimsuit’s on. I won’t offend your sensibilities.”

“I’m not offend—” Lan Zhan turns, and then something clips the edge of his word. He stares at Wei Ying like he’s got three heads.

“Oh, well, glad to hear, then.” Wei Ying sits down on the rock where Lan Zhan had been. “So. Mind if I take a dip?”

The coolness returns to Lan Zhan’s voice. “Suit yourself.” But he’s still staring at Wei Ying.

For just one moment, Wei Ying remembers all those earlier fantasies. That’s exactly the look he imagined on Lan Zhan’s face in those moments. The look where he can’t quite keep his anger in check. The look that says Wei Ying’s getting to him. Wei Ying has no idea how he is gettingto Lan Zhan in this moment, just sitting on a rock. Unless…

Nah, couldn’t be.

The next moment, Lan Zhan’s diving into the water. His body is an arc of movement, a single curved line, and Wei Ying loses his breath again. Apparently he needed to be reminded that Lan Zhan’s body is a flawless machine. His brain is pinging madly and he wants with all his heart to just drop into the water and swim for Lan Zhan like a shark. That would probably be a bad idea. He knows he probably has an advantage in an underwater tussle, but somehow, he doesn’t really want to win anymore.

Lan Zhan has emerged, in a shallow portion of the lake, his head and half his chest visible above the water line. He has eyes on Wei Ying. “Well?” he asks, something curiously hesitant in his voice.

“Well, what?” Wei Ying feels like he should be holding his breath. He’s careful to keep his voice casual.

Lan Zhan looks down, then to the side, then to him again. It’s a very un-Lan-like action. After a short silence, he ventures in what is almost – not quite -- a tentative voice, “Are you coming in?”

Wei Ying stares down at him. The silence that follows is pregnant with possibility.

“Wei-xiong!”

Nie Huaisang bursts first through the treeline, then, following him, the rest of the students in noisy gaggles. “Wei-xiong, how did you find this place so quickly? We all got turned around looking for it—”

Splashes sound here and there as the students find their way into the lake. Soon, the whole place is echoing with the sound of laughter and chatter. Wei Ying’s gaze finds Lan Zhan, through an increasingly dense thicket of people. Lan Zhan is looking at him with eyes that are almost sad. A moment later, he turns away.

It’s disappointing. Wei Ying had thought – perhaps imagined? – that there was something starting to happen there, something thawing in the relationship between them. He considers giving chase. But Lan Zhan is striding through the trees and disappearing before he can say a thing. So much for that.

Still, Wei Ying has an image he didn’t have before. Lan Zhan, dipped in gold, his body bare and his chin uplifted toward the sun. It’s printed in indelible ink on his mind now, along with a memory of Lan Zhan’s gaze, softer perhaps than Wei Ying has ever seen it. He closes his eyes and savors both the picture and the memory for a moment. Then, grinning, he rejoins his friends.

#notenoughgatorade #mdzs #mdzs fic #mdzs ficlet #wangxian #modern au #summer school au #cql #cql fic #cql ficlet #stuff tippy wrote

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onewomancitadel · 1 year

Note

on your thoughts on knightfall becoming canon ( how high do you believe thats possible like if this was gambling how much stock would you put into it)

I think it's worth emphasising that I constantly make note of my own personal cautiousness about the matter, mostly because I think that's just part-and-parcel of the analytic procedure. Lol.

By nature with works-in-progress you can absolutely never account for authorial whimsy, even if at a minimum you accept that there needs to be canonical intelligibility to any given fan theory - and authorial whimsy can be anything from realising a better idea actually works to draw out your original intentions (this is why the appeal to the 'original pure idea' is usually wrong, because it's not really one-way like that) to actual handovers or conflict of creators/creative vision to it simply being revealed they had very different ideas than what were originally conveyed because it took time for that to come through to simply being kind of stupid.

What's frustrating to me is that a lot of naysayers think that the conversation begins and ends with, 'It's not that deep,' or 'it's not that smart'; it's an easy position to argue from because people assume it's an argument which doesn't necessitate evidence. You don't need to think that hard. What you actually need to do is demonstrate where it isn't thoughtful, and where I would generally agree that, say, the White Fang has poor execution, in terms of its thematic ideas (which in part contribute to some of its tone-deafness), it is actually totally thematically consistent. But most of the fandom doesn't think that a nonviolent solution to the conflict with Salem is possible or even on the cards, so they're never going to be reading these broader ideas into an earlier plotline in the show, and they're never going to connect the redemption and reformation of the White Fang to the redemption and reformation of the bad guys in the story who are all deeply hurting in their own ways (no, Adam was not set up for a redemption arc and is a corrupting force), and I think most people would tell you that the reunion between the Faunus and humans comes off tone-deaf to a lot of modern social justice movements - but it's describing individual psychological harmony - and to be totally fair, I do think that they misused the allegory in a serious way. It's the danger of allegory. Once you introduce magical animal people, I don't think a social justice allegory works, but I think this is a case of where they prioritised the ideas they had (nonviolence, psychological harmony) over the execution proper, and then in addition to that were clumsy and yes, perpetuating racist - and everything else - ideas about the way people are supposed to fight for their freedom.

But I also wouldn't say that the Faunus storyline runs counter to the ideas of the story in any way. Not at all. I think that's where you can identify the fallout.

So the question isn't even necessarily grounded in, 'Is this story stupid?' but, 'Is this story coherent?' which don't always mean the same thing and don't always speak to the same sort of quality. Because I find the friendship is magic stuff bullshit, and at first I thought it was just stupid, but with Cinder and Ruby's respective development, I am basically led to believe it is stupid. It is stupid, and that's coherent - the overemphasis of it has led to a refusal to confront and accept the necessity and transformation of pain, and the beauty which grows from that. This is why I don't really think Pyrrha is the stickling point for the pairing, since her and the Fall of Beacon - which makes the abstract personal for Jaune - basically sets the romance up.

But the point I was working towards is that it needs to be demonstrated where the story is not thoughtful. The difference with RWBY is that most of it is thoughtful. Character arcs are basically connected, basic narrative events are foreshadowed, the romances have thematic- and plot-work to do in the story, the allusions have meaningful employment most of the time. All of it's beholden to Ozlem. It's actually working towards some greater idea and it has specific goals in mind about resolving Salem and Ozma's conflict and about situating Ruby in the story (particularly across this volume). Why her? What's the point of all the little heroes in the story? Of course, what you're fighting uphill against in this fandom is that a lot of angry people online don't appreciate basic storytelling tools. They have a severe case of the narrative cynicisms and literalism, and frankly, this is an ideology which gains traction in the world of outrage and easy clicks and contrarianism just for the pure sake of it. This is more extreme than just, 'Why does the good guy always win?', like asking fundamental and interesting questions, but more like a complete rejection of character transformation. A lot of people view static character as being logical, and especially power fantasy as being logical, which means a total rejection of most events in the show. Or then you've got simple tonal mismatch where people think it's the bestfriendsforever show.

I'm making this case here because it's not actually a simple question. Jaune/Cinder is a serious polemic. It's not a twee power fantasy romance, it's not guy gets the girl as a reward, it's not hero/villain for the sake of it because it's hot, it's actually much more than that and if you came to the ship through that reasoning, that's fine, but that's not the angle I'm arguing from and it's not the angle that I think it's being argued through in the show either.

The case you have to make for Jaune/Cinder is both a thematic one and a character one, because even amongst people who believe in Cinder's redemption, most of them would tell you that job belongs to Emerald, and others might say Ruby. Why would romance be relevant here? Why would Jaune not just end up with Weiss or whichever female character gets relegated to narrative obscurity? It's a positive case which has to be made because what you're relying on is RWBY having some sense of intelligible, consistent (consistent) storytelling, which is thematically motivated, with specific ideas it needs answered - why is the power of friendship the one to fail, why can no one reach Cinder? - which doesn't lean into puerile self-insert power fantasy or the easy, lazy answer, or just the guy waiting patiently until the pretty princess notices him now he's a good boy with almost zero narrative consequences. The much more radical idea to me is that Jaune's character development actually has serious narrative consequences in respect to Cinder's character arc and redemption. You've tied the romance to a major turn-the-tide event and now you've got justification. It's not there for shits and giggles or because it would make a handful of Redditors happy.

(Yes, I do think the interactions Cinder has with the Maidens are calculated, and they have done work to tease out Cinder's specific growth over the past few volumes. But I do think it can be said that every redemption arc so far and yes, every romance has had specific people involved for specific reasons).

But the problem here is that I think the average naysayer would say RWBY isn't that smart (or that Jaune/Cinder is problematic, but you're watching the wrong show if so). Of course, that's why I refer to the canon romances so, and especially the prominence of Ozlem in the story. No other romance best realises Ozlem in such literal reversal. It is curious that Jaune/Cinder mirrors Ruby/Oscar interactions. It is curious that Jaune/Weiss mirrors Blake/Sun in the time of a Volume 4 reprisal-ish when V5 followed on with a serious volume-finisher indicating Blake/Yang and oh yeah, that very one also had the best interaction of all time in the show with Jaune and Cinder. It is curious that the canon romances all in some way line up in ways that Jaune/Weiss doesn't, and even curiouser that Jaune/Cinder does. The romances in RWBY are embedded in the plot. They realise specific ideas. This is foreign to a lot of people who think romance is when people blush at each other and make funny jokes and kiss. Good, interesting, justified, passionate, transformational, heart-moving, soul-touching romance is more than that, and it's part of what I like about RWBY's execution of the romances, because it speaks to a sensibility I appreciate. This isn't radical stuff necessarily, it's just radical to paint-by-numbers understandings of storytelling.

I'm not saying that Jaune/Cinder will be canon. I'm not a gambler. It's really hard to make predictions based off of a work in progress because you have an incomplete synthesis of ideas which can recontextualise everything that's been said.

It's kind of like how most people didn't twig that Cinder is sympathetic up until they made it really obviously textual until Volume 8 to most people (in my opinion it was the end of V7, but in terms of reaction that's when it was). It changes all her previous characterisation because now you understand there's an intended complexity there. Ironwood's fall casts his previous characterisation in a different light in addition to casting more ambiguity over Ozma himself and what Ozma had to handle with Lionheart - it makes Lionheart's loss more profound. I can say that right now Jaune/Weiss doesn't and didn't mirror the canon romance developments, and across this volume it hasn't, but the only point that seriously makes me question it is her casting him into the abyss. Whilst I can identify that as a parallel with Raven-Cinder (Vault fight) and Oscar-Ironwood (Vault fight) where it takes place in a magical place which can reach back into the normal world (a reverse of the Vaults), on the other hand it's the only thing that's given the pairing any remote complexity/drama which is a necessity for all of the pairings (think Blake leaving Yang and the Adam problem, Ren/Nora's backstories and Mantle/Atlas, Ruby and Oscar with the Ozma curse and lying to Ironwood, and then for Emerald/Mercury - well, need I say?). On the other hand, I was really weirded out that Weiss was never personally made uncomfortable with the Penny situation, and at present it seems more like something to inject complexity into Ruby's partnership with Weiss and further influence Ruby's disillusionment. Then once you get into Ruby-Cinder parallels, right now, Jaune being able to help Ruby who is remarkably paralleled with a certain Fall Maiden... does set him up for something else.

But the point I'm trying to make is that even if I could say to you, oh, Jaune/Weiss has almost no development and no paralleled development to the other canon romances crossvolumes, if the present development with Weiss hurling him into the abyss by accident actually addresses that, then you can mark up the Jaune/Weiss development to inconsistency and/or an about turn. Authorial whimsy. They might've changed their mind, or they might've not have wanted to draw scrutiny to the relationship at all until Jaune aged up and was more 'mature' for the pairing, or they might've considered the barren interaction of the awakening of his Semblance sufficient development until then... which it was not, especially because we never got anything between them and Weiss' development with her family in Atlas. Jaune's familial struggles should've come up in respect to that. That is so obvious it hurts! The Arc and Schnee inheritances should be central to the pairing. They've not abandoned either idea with them - in fact who Jaune is 'supposed' to be is one of his central character wounds, which hurts him, in respect to the way Weiss actually wants to reform her family name. Jaune wants to get away from it, Weiss doesn't. So why isn't and hasn't there been any development there whatsoever? Why is his initial crush on her actually tied up in something which hurt him, especially as this volume revisits this idea of the made-up hero he can't be? (Of course, that he's a real yet imperfect hero is the point).

They might've even just thought it'd be funny to put Jaune and Weiss together.

Because Jaune/Cinder hinges on narrative relevance for both Jaune and Cinder. It's giving Cinder a romance when most people don't think about that in respect to her except as a fetish thing which squarely puts her in a position of redeeming Ozlem and addressing her own character wounds (the truth is that nobody's ever loved you). It means that Jaune's presence in the story is completely justified by virtue of being the one to reach out to Cinder when it seemed impossible and seemed absolutely absurd and heretical (yeah I'm pulling the Joan of Arc allusion out here). He's not just here for the laugh of it; there's a quiet little love story between them against the backdrop of the epic spectacle. Ever since Volume 1 people have speculated over their narrative connections. I remember people predicting Cinder was going to be the one to kill Jaune, and I remember shock at the fact that it was Pyrrha and not him.

So I find it beautiful that such a curiosity was warranted, but it's actually contextually realised differently. It's because they'll fall in love. It's a positive subversion.

Is their romance and their respective character arcs actually that relevant to be in question since Volume 1? I think you can make the case for Cinder more because of her redemption and because of the Maiden power, and honestly with this volume, yes, I do think it's easier to make the case for Jaune now than it ever was before, especially as they didn't dismiss the aftermath of Penny but actually broke him even harder than I thought they would. Critically, their romance involves the Crown of Choice (a confrontation over this is near-inevitable, they're the last two survivors of the Beacon Vault), which seems maybe the only certain prediction I can make if their romance is canon.

If you weren't thinking that hard about his character? You would write Jaune/Weiss. If you weren't thinking that hard about Cinder's redemption, and you just finangle its evolution at the last minute? You wouldn't write Jaune/Cinder. Jaune/Cinder by necessity involves carefulness. It doesn't necessarily speak to a perfect execution, but it does speak to coherency, and it does speak to the fundamental ideas to the story, and yes, it does speak to idealism being valued in the story. Resolving Cinder's wounded idealism and prioritising nonviolence and seeing and not just looking and getting the missing side of the story even when she is someone who has broken you (and has the capacity to build you back up) is a tall order, but it's also magical and it does rest on validating fairytales in the story, but in a complicated way, because the dragon and the maiden are one. Why does there have to be a bad guy? Why is Cinder the bad guy? Can they meet in the middle? Jaune and Cinder is about meeting in the middle, even when it's deeply questionable to both sides and would potentially compromise them both.

The question of Jaune/Cinder isn't simply about my dollies kissing - it is about that, to be fair, and I'm not ashamed of it - but to my eyes, it is also what I find valuable about RWBY. It reaffirms RWBY's best ideas. It affirms its ideas, its playful storytelling, its particular intentions with the romances, its sense of transformational redemption. So I think Jaune/Cinder has the possibility to be canon insofar as it follows through on what's it set up and it's coherent and its character development is purposeful and actually, everything about it is purposeful. Jaune has hijinks this volume with team RWBY, sure, but it's also the Old Man and the Four Maidens. It's hard to read his interactions with the Winter Maiden as romantic, especially as she's the first to get through to him, so he can finally go find the Fall Maiden who's run away. But then why make Jaune so obviously and painfully Ozma-coded? Is it because there's a certain, other, actual Fall Maiden, not analogue, who herself has a Grimm curse much alike to Salem? Is it purposeful? Am I supposed to be thinking?

I don't pay much attention to Jaune/Cinder naysayers (and there are a lot of them) because I like RWBY. I like what it's got going for it and I think it's fun and joyful, and I like its sense of spectacle, and most of all I think it's sincere. I don't think Jaune/Weiss or any other Jaune ship is sincere and it would mean that I probably really had no reason to trust in any of Jaune's development or even really the other romances, because what's the point? Once you break what makes them all special, I don't see why I should be invested. Because you can only make a coherent argument for Blake/Yang throughout the show on a basis which conflicts with Jaune/Weiss or indeed even Jaune/Pyrrha.

I also think it has the potential to be the greatest, most thrilling, unexpected yet totally sensical romance of all time. So sue me. I think it's fucking clever, and if that cleverness isn't there, then I don't know if I have any specific reason to care about RWBY.

I couldn't tell you whether I'd gamble on it. I tentatively hope. But deep down I'm a cynic and I've been burnt before and my trust in something so good happening just isn't there - and this is why I hate people telling me this, because I already think it.

But then there's that terrible part of me which can't help but wonder, and I guess that's why I keep writing posts even when it's a controversial ship... I want characters like Jaune and Cinder to see their hopes reaffirmed. I'd like a hopeful story. I'd like a story which gives a shit. I'd like my own hopes to be affirmed, I suppose, even when it seems impossible.

#seraphina's asks #user: megashadowdragon #knightfall #seraphina ruminates over V9 #rwby9 #and yes I wrote this post with the full knowledge you've repeatedly messaged me about blake/sun; please don't message me about it again #if you want to argue for blake/sun then I think you should get used to the idea of jaune/weiss #long post

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