#daenerys meta

[asongofstarkandtargaryen]

How many asoiaf leaders we see being self reflecting?

Meanwhile Dany, the night before she offers freedom to all Unsullied, she reflects about Eroeh's fate and even feels guilty about her tragic end.

This girl was raped when Dany rescued her and added her to her personal slaves in order to offer her protection ( remember, back when Dany was married to Drogo, she didn't have the authority to free a slave herself).

Unfortunately for Eroeh, her sad fate didn't stop there. Because after Khal Drogo was dead and Dany was no longer considered a Khaleesi by most of his khalasar, Eroeh's rapist return to abuse and kill the girl.

Dany was by no means responsible to what happened to Eroeh because she was unconscious ( after giving a difficult birth) when the girl met her cruel end by Khal Mago.

However, that doesn't stop Dany from feeling she failed the girl. Because Dany believes that a ruler's duty is to protect their subjects.

Dany was once also a helpless child in need of protection from her brother - king. But instead all she got was his cruelty and abuse.

Dany knows first hand how someone can suffer under a merciless King. Combine on that the guilt she feels for the fate of a girl she couldn't possible change and it's no wonder that she comes to the conclusion that " justice...is what kings are for".

Those aren't pretty words coming out of a mouth of a pampered and naive girl playing the Messiah. Those are the words of a girl who has sold by her Brother - King as a bride-slave, a girl who has suffered things other Ruler candidates couldn't possibly imagine, a girl who is going to live by those words she said. The same teenage girl offers freedom and justice to all the Unsullied slaves the next morning.

#daenerys targaryen #asoiaf meta #daenerys meta #house Targaryen #valyrianscrolls #astapor #asos #asos meta

[nogoodsheepstealing-greatgrandma]

Daenerys is 14

And she does stay in Slavers Bay and try to rebuild the economy. Source: A Dance With Dragons.

She spends much of the book trying to negotiate new trade deals with the Lhazarene and the Qartheen, trying to plant new olive groves and bean fields, trying to reform the guilds membership so former slaves can earn proper wages as skilled craftsmen. She tries to assimilate with Meereenese culture to ease a peaceful transition of power, she consults with their priestess, she adopts their religious rites and their uncomfortable traditional dress, she agrees under pressure to marry a Meereenese noble (she doesn't force anyone into marriage at dragonpoint like in the show). And she goes out personally to feed and care for the sick and starving refugees at her door, she tries to set up quarantine zones to slow the spread of infection.

And yeah she falls short. But the odds are stacked against her. She's 14, for starters. And before she arrived the slavers burnt all the olive groves and salted the soil so she couldn't use them, and as she calculates it will take 30 years before the land will be truly productive again. She also has the Meereenese slaving class working very hard to sabotage her by funding domestic terrorism within the city. And she has to deal with a refugee crisis, a famine, a plague, and an alliance of pro-Slavery states forming a blockade around Meereen and threatening to siege the city.

True the refugee crisis is arguably due to her leaving Astapor. She set up a new government, but she should have stayed longer to consolidate it. But she is only 14, and her main adviser/parental figure is too busy being a pro-slavery pedophile.

And the fall of Astapor isn't completely on her shoulders. She left adults in charge, people with qualifications and who knew the land and people better than she did. They had political agency and responsibility. As did Cleon. He could have chosen not to overthrow the Council and name himself King. He could have chosen to heed Daenerys when she told him "don't start a war with the Yunkai". And the Yunkai could have chosen not to slaughter Astapor and chase the refugees to Meereen. They could have simply removed Cleon and then recognised Daenerys had no part in his actions. The Yunkai could have chosen not to then declare war on Meereen.

The institution of slavery is complicated to overthrow and complicated to replace and even complicated in the ways it reasserts itself. Daenerys isn't the only actor here who determines the fate of Slavers Bay (though if she unleashes her dragons she can certainly become the most decisive actor again). The entire point of ADWD is that it's much more complicated than that - its GRRM's answer to "what was Aragorn's tax policy?". She is a 14 year old child who does her best against impossible odds, and who explicitly puts any dreams of Westeros on hold indefinitely. Time and time again she is offered the chance and means to sail for Westeros, and she turns it down each time because she knows she can't leave the people of Meereen behind to die.

And hopefully the lesson she learns by the end of ADWD is that she has to stop being conciliatory towards the slaving class. She spares the lives of hostages, she opens the fighting pits for them, she gives up her body in marriage, and still they try to poison her to install Hizdhar as King. Mercy isn't a weakness, but the people who have a vested interest in slavery aren't going to stop just because you ask them nicely (like that garbage show GOT seems to think). She's got to use her dragons.

No, critiquing her failures isn't the same as defending slavery. But claiming that she never tried, and ignoring the odds stacked against her, is false. As for blaming her for Slavers Bay falling into chaos and suffering... First off, again, she isn't the only responsible actor with agency - I maintain that the fall of Astapor was pretty much out of her hands. And second, it ignores the massive scale of human suffering that already gripped slavers bay. The daily violence inflicted on slaves - the families torn apart, the lives destroyed, the children mutilated, the thousands of dead babies killed to initiate the Unsullied, the tortures and crucifixions and whippings and executions and rapes.

Ignoring that isn't that far off from defending slavery. Claiming that the violence that overthrew slavery is worse than the violence that is slavery isn't that far off from defending slavery. Should no one ever dare strike off a slaves chains just because they can't account for the violence that could come after? Is the crucifixion of child-murdering Slavers worse than the crucifixion of innocent children?

Or to bring up another literary scenario with more moral equivalency and ambiguity - was the Tenth plague upon the firstborns of Egypt worse than the mass culling of infant slaves? Who do you blame for the Ten Plagues of Egypt? Should Moses have left well enough alone?

#fandom nonsense #daenerys targaryen #asoiaf #valyrianscrolls #breaker of chains #daenerys defense squad #meereen #daenerys meta #dany meta #dany #dany defence squad #pro daenerys #pro daenerys targaryen #anti got

[graveyardcuddles]

I'm sure this has probably already been pointed out, but it's interesting to think about the historically significant Targaryens who had the same name or a similar name to Daenerys.

Daenys the Dreamer - Saved all of House Targaryen from the Doom with her prophetic vision. A woman whose dreams came true. Could be argued is the very foundation of House Targaryen even more so than Aegon I because Aegon could have never conquered the Seven Kingdom if his ancestors were wiped out by the Doom.

Princess Daenerys Targaryen I - Firstborn daughter of Queen Alysanne and King Jaehaerys. Early walker, talker, and reader. A lively, laughing child, often mud-spattered and grass-stained. She died young, but Alysanne fought for her to become Jaehaerys' heir over her younger brother Aemon and to rule as Queen in her own right.

Princess Daenerys Targaryen II - Daughter of King Aegon the Unworthy and Queen Naerys. The Daenerys that our Dany is named after. Born 19 years after her older brother. Mother was trapped in an abusive, unloving marriage. Said to have loved Daemon Blackfyre but set aside her personal desires for duty to marry Maron Martell to further solidify peace with Dorne. Began the tradition of opening the Water Gardens to the common children of the palace. And was remembered mainly for her compassion.

You can say that this naming convention is just a little easter egg that was included by George simply to create literary parallels to our Dany and that's probably true. But it feels like George is subtly hinting that Dany has been this figure whose birth has been heralded for centuries.

You can see little echos of her story in other Danys throughout history. And now, in THIS incarnation as Daenerys Stormborn, she is all those Danys and more. She is the wide-eyed, clever, grass-stained young girl learning to become a Queen in the Dorthraki Sea. She is the Dany who was born from an abusive loveless marriage but still became a compassionate leader even though it meant making personal sacrifices (including entering a politically advantage marriage) of her own. A woman whose dreams come true and who rules in her own right. Daenys the Dreamer and Aegon I.

#asoiaf #asoiaf meta #asoiaf analysis #house targaryen #awoiaf #a world of ice and fire #fire and blood #daenerys targaryen #daenerys meta #daenerys targaryen meta #a song of ice and fire

[winterprince601]

arya, sansa and dany get ALLLL the experiences of feudal girlhood. being torn from your family and forced to erase your connection to them at a young age. having a very dangerous pet!!! attending a wedding where at least one person dies. praying but in like, a non-denominational way. killing a man in your head. hoping your mother would be proud of you :( getting a new hairstyle and changing your identity!! killing a man.

#ok so technically sansa has not yet done the last one #but she HAS been a literal accessory to murder #and she IS doing some cute poisoning rn #so forgiven #sansa stark #arya stark #danaerys targaryen #daenerys targaryen #asoiaf #asoiaf meta #asoiaf shitpost #a song of ice and fire #asoiaf girlies

[lizzie-queenofmeigas]

Even if Viserys had named Aegon heir and no war took place, the dragons would have died out anyway.

The dragons died because a woman was denied the throne, House Targaryen lost its might for betraying their woman. It is not a coincidence that Morning dies so young, it is not a coincidence that is Daenerys who brings back the dragons. Steeling from women has terrible magical consequences in Asoiaf, the first long night and the dying of the dragons are great examples.

House Targaryen tried for centuries to bring back the dragons, but only a girl, Daenerys, could. Only a queen.

It can't be a coincidence.

#asoiaf meta #a song of ice and fire #asoiaf fandom #daenerys targaryen #queen daenerys #daenerys stormborn #house of the dragon #anti team green #pro team black #anti hotd #team black #rhaenyra targaryen #house targaryen #the dance of the dragons

[fromtheseventhhell]

Dany: *breathes*

Dark!Dany "theories": I honestly don't know how there's any question of Dany turning evil when we have such obvious foreshadowing like this in the books. In the first place, this is not just Dany exhaling...it is a violent expulsion of air from her body. It's a sigh, a sign of impatience which shows that Dany becomes frustrated and restless very easily. Not only that, the presence of oxygen strengthens a fire and can lead to a sudden explosion; when Dany gets impatient, intentional or not, her first instinct is to add "fuel to the fire". And finally, air is the very essence of life. She expels "life" from her body, rather violently at that, the moment she becomes impatient and unconsciously begins to turn to fire...do I really need to say more? It's so obvious that Mad Queen!Dany is being built up, George isn't even trying to be subtle lol

#daenerys targeryan #pro daenerys targaryen #asoiaf #fandom nonsense #is it more funny or sad that this is barely an exaggeration of /dark Dany/ metas? I can't decide #draft sweep 🧹

[daenerystargaryen06]

"How beautiful, the queen tried to tell herself, but inside her was some foolish little girl who could not help but look about for Daario. If he loved you, he would come and carry you off at swordpoint, as Rhaegar carried off his northern girl, the girl in her insisted, but the queen knew that was folly..." -A Dance with Dragons - Daenerys VII

"I would need to steal her if I wanted her love, but she might give me children. I might someday hold a son of my own blood in my arms. A son was something Jon Snow had never dared dream of, since he decided to live his life on the Wall. I could name him Robb." -A Storm of Swords -Jon XII

Daenerys wanting Daario to carry her off at sword point, and Jon thinking of stealing Val for her love. Two parallels of one girl wanting to be stolen, and one boy wanting to steal someone. Both for love.

"None of them had ever seen a direwolf before, he realized, and Ghost was twice as large as the common wolves that prowled their southron greenwoods. As he walked toward the armory, Jon chanced to look up and saw Val standing in her tower window. I'm sorry, he thought. I'm not the man to steal you out of there." -A Storm of Swords - Jon XII

"Even if her captain was mad enough to attempt it, the Brazen Beasts would cut him down before he got within a hundred yards of her." -A Dance with Dragons - Daenerys VII

Jon is sorry he can't steal away Val, and Daenerys reflects on the fact that even if Daario did attempt to carry her off at sword point, he'd be cut down.

Both Jon and Daenerys have a sense of romanticism in their POV's. Both are hopeless romantics (perhaps Daenerys more so than Jon in a sense). Both want love, despite denying it deep down. Jon because he's a man of the Night's Watch and a bastard. Daenerys because she is a Queen over her people and accepts duty over giving in to "girlish" thoughts.

Both had found love within confinement. Jon having fallen for Ygritte while pretending to be on the Freefolk's side. Daenerys having found a twisted love in Drogo after being sold to him as a bridal slave. Both were coerced into sexual relations with Ygritte and Drogo. Both had to watch Ygritte and Drogo die (and Dany killed Drogo out of mercy).

"He found Ygritte sprawled across a patch of old snow beneath the Lord Commander's Tower, with an arrow between her breasts. The ice crystals had settled over her face, and in the moonlight it looked as though she wore a glittering silver mask [...] "Oh." Ygritte cupped his cheek with her hand. "You know nothing, Jon Snow," she sighed, dying. -A Storm of Swords - Jon VII

"And when the bleak dawn broke over an empty horizon, Dany knew that he was truly lost to her. “When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east,” she said sadly. “When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When my womb quickens again, and I bear a living child. Then you will return, my sun-and-stars, and not before.” Never, the darkness cried, never never never. Inside the tent Dany found a cushion, soft silk stuffed with feathers. She clutched it to her breasts as she walked back out to Drogo, to her sun-and-stars. If I look back I am lost. It hurt even to walk, and she wanted to sleep, to sleep and not to dream. She knelt, kissed Drogo on the lips, and pressed the cushion down across his face." -A Game of Thrones - Daenerys IX

Both Jon and Daenerys have also found interest again after the deaths of Ygritte and Drogo. Jon wants Val, and Daenerys sleeps with Daario and may perhaps love him, but doubts over her relations with Daario. Both focus on their duties over giving in to what they really want. Daenerys even marries again for peace over giving in to what she really wants.

Both Jon and Daenerys think of having children, but push away the ideal. Jon due to being a member of the Night's Watch and a bastard. Daenerys due to thinking she is barren/cursed by Mirri Maz Duur and can never again have a child born from her.

Jon reflects that if he ever had a son, he'd name him Robb after his brother. Daenerys when pregnant with Drogo's child names her son Rhaego after her brother.

Jon is the secret son of Rhaegar and Lyanna. Lyanna is associated with blue winter roses:

"He was walking through the crypts beneath Winterfell, as he had walked a thousand times before. The Kings of Winter watched him pass with eyes of ice, and the direwolves at their feet turned their great stone heads and snarled. Last of all, he came to the tomb where his father slept, with Brandon and Lyanna beside him. "Promise me, Ned," Lyanna's statue whispered. She wore a garland of pale blue roses, and her eyes wept blood." -A Game of Thrones - Eddard XIII

"Robert had been jesting with Jon and old Lord Hunter as the prince circled the field after unhorsing Ser Barristan in the final tilt to claim the champion's crown. Ned remembered the moment when all the smiles died, when Prince Rhaegar Targaryen urged his horse past his own wife, the Dornish princess Elia Martell, to lay the queen of beauty's laurel in Lyanna's lap. He could see it still: a crown of winter roses, blue as frost." -A Game of Thrones - Eddard XV

When Daenerys has visions in the House of the Undying, she sees the Wall:

"A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness. . . . mother of dragons, bride of fire . . ." -A Clash of Kings - Daenerys IV

Jon is the 'blue flower' she sees growing from the wall of ice, filling the air with 'sweetness'. Jon is Lyanna's son. Both carry blue flower representation.

Jon also wants to know everything there is about his mother; who she was, if she loved him, what sort of person she was. Just alike to how Daenerys wants to learn and know everything she can about Rhaegar, as she also idolizes him in a sense. Both have thoughts about these people. Jon constantly thinks about his mother (Lyanna even if he does not know yet who she is); Daenerys often thinks of Rhaegar (despite never knowing him). Both think of these people despite them already being gone from the world, and both only wish they could have known who they truly were as people and can only guess how Lyanna and Rhaegar would've thought or acted.

Jon thinks of having dragons at the Wall:

"We should have twenty trebuchets, not two, and they should be mounted on sledges and turntables so we could move them. It was a futile thought. He might as well wish for another thousand men, and maybe a dragon or three." -A Storm of Swords - Jon VIII

When Jon dies, Daenerys hears a wolf howling in the distance:

"Off in the distance, a wolf howled. The sound made her feel sad and lonely, but no less hungry. As the moon rose above the grasslands, Dany slipped at last into a restless sleep." -A Dance with Dragons - Daenerys X

Both have an association/thought relating to one another's animal sigil/companion. Jon thinks of wishing for three dragons (Daenerys' house sigil and her dragon children). Daenerys hears a wolf howling when Jon dies, making her feel sad and lonely (Jon's house sigil through Lyanna/Ned and his direwolf Ghost).

Both Jon and Daenerys dream of home. Daenerys with the house with the red door and the lemon tree. Jon with Winterfell.

Both are estranged from their families (Jon being at the Wall. Daenerys being in Essos and the last of her family having died).

Both have lost their brothers in different means. Both have had their mothers die from childbirth and never got to meet them. Both of their fathers (Rhaegar and Aerys) died during the Rebellion.

Both had arcs of leadership and rule, and struggle with their decisions and making hard choices. Jon winds up killed due to his choices at the end of ADWD, and Daenerys becomes stranded in the Dothraki Sea due to her choice of saving Drogon (and her people from Drogon) from the fighting pit and escaping on dragonback.

While Daenerys thinks of taking the IT as a duty due to being the last of her family and Viserys' last living heir, Jon admits to wanting to become Lord of Winterfell but turning the opportunity away.

#daenerys defence squad #daenerys stormborn #daenerys targaryen #daenerys targeryan #daenerys appreciation #mother of dragons #pro daenerys targaryen #breaker of chains #khaleesi #asoiaf jon #jon snow #asoiaf daenerys #a song of ice and fire #team daenerys #meta #long reads #long post #parallels #jonerys #jon x daenerys #snowstorm #drogon #ghost #ygritte mention #drogo mention

[vivacissimx]

A Game of Thrones' first chapter being Bran I and last chapter being Daenerys X, and those two chapters being in such strong conversation with each other will forever be what sells me on ASOIAF as a series. The set-up is just it. Consider: AGOT begins with an execution, of Gared the Night's Watch deserter who witnessed The Horrors. It's presented as a part of Bran's coming of age, this complex situation which he's now old enough to grapple with. Gared is sympathetic to us as readers (he witnessed The Horrors!!!) but his life is forfeit. He dies by Ice. After, Jon and Robb argue over whether he died brave or afraid. Ned says it doesn't matter—death is necessary, it is part of a larger Cycle which Bran will one day be a part of though he shouldn't enjoy it any more than he denies it... what makes it necessary though? What is this cycle—because if it's only about justice, well, Gared's execution doesn't feel just. Now we have our first true question of the book.

Daenerys X follows a similar format with a sympathetic Mirri Maz Duur having forfeited her life after killing an unborn Rhaego. Why? Well she also witnessed The Horrors. This time in the shape of a Dothraki invasion & the Stallion Who Mounts The World prophecy. She is set to die by burning (ice and fire babyyy). In the moments before, she appears defiant... but when Daenerys says it does not matter how she dies, then fear creeps into MMD's eyes. Again the interplay between bravery & fear. Again the seesaw, the balance. So now we can return to the first question. Why is this necessary?

Because only death can pay for life... and because you should strive for life. There should be hope and yearning for birth, for rebirth. Gared & Mirri have both given up on their own lives due to their fear while Bran asks, and Daenerys answers, that yes, you must reach for life even when life as you know it has ended. It's a coming of age for Daenerys too. When the dragons burst forth their newborn cries are called music—it's a song!! A Song of Ice and Fire. So yeah. Five fucking stars.

#bran stark #daenerys targaryen #asoiaf #valyrianscrolls #agot #text #asoiaf meta

[diamondperfumes]

I like and see the appeal of "Dany, Jon, and Young Griff" as the three heads of the dragon/"new Targaryen trio." I can't help but think, however, that people who are reluctant to acknowledge that the real three heads are likely Dany, Jon, and Tyrion, are simply being ableist.

It makes sense that the three heads are Dany, Jon, and Tyrion, centered around Dany (she is Aegon the Conqueror Reborn; this prophecy centers around her, whether you like it or not).

All three have dealt with an undying threat using fire (the Undying, aptly named; a wight; a stone man).

All three have connections to dragons (Dany the strongest connection, one I don't need to elaborate on, hence being the center of the trio; Jon, who wishes for a dragon "or three," who speaks of a dragon warming things up at the Wall; Tyrion, who adores dragons, who yearned for one as a child and even dreamed of them, who is an expert on dragonology).

All three have had concrete, extensive ruling arcs (and not just "for thematic exploration," as some would have it, but as tangible demonstrations of what Westeros needs, and how Westeros could benefit if they were in charge), as Queen of Meereen, Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, and (acting) Hand of King Joffrey I Baratheon.

Both Jon and Tyrion show up in Dany's House of the Undying visions; Jon as Dany's third ?* in her bride of fire prophecy, Tyrion as a white lion running through grass. Tyrion similarly hears a prophecy of dragons from Moqorro, a prophecy that likely refers to both Jon and Dany, among other Targaryens, and is said to be a snarling shadow amidst them all. If that doesn't scream Tyrion's importance, especially his future connection to Dany and Jon both, I don't know what does.

All three are the third child of their parents, whose mothers died in childbirth, and all three have some kind of rivalry with an elder sibling (though Jon's relationship with Robb is the healthiest and most loving). All three also look up to their eldest brothers. All three had a negative relationship with an authority figure while growing up: Viserys, Catelyn, and Tywin (and for Cat haters, no I am not comparing Cat to Vis and Tywin, except to demonstrate the similarities in thinking and emotional state between the three).

All three suffer a formative betrayal that leads to a physical or metaphysical rebirth, taking place over ASOS to ADWD.

All three know what it's like to starve, be hunted, and live in deprivation. These aren't just random experiences; it's obvious that George is setting them up to brave the harsh conditions of the Long Night, possibly to find the heart of winter together. Being able to endure and survive starvation and the extremities of physical environments like The Wall, the Red Waste, and Slaver's Bay, are building blocks to this.

All three have connections to nomadic cultures that are seen as savage and barbaric––the Dothraki, the Free Folk, and the Mountain Clans of the Vale.

All three are positioned to rectify the wrongs of their houses, though thus far Dany has done the most concrete work in this regard (this is not a slight against Jon and Tyrion). More on this later.

All three are "outcast" POV's, even explicitly referred to as such by GRRM. Jon because he was raised as a bastard, Dany as an exile, bridal slave, and teenage girl, Tyrion as a dwarf who has been abused and maligned his whole life.

All three have had arcs that take place away from Westeros proper; again, this geographic and geopolitical distancing from Westeros only serves to enhance their ideological values as rulers and leaders.

Under the complicated rules of succession, all three are positioned to inherit a title that is not immediately accessible to them: Jon as King in the North (Winterfell), Tyrion as Lord of Casterly Rock, Dany as Queen of the Seven Kingdoms. Why they can't access it is because of the very things that make them outcasts.

All three are foreshadowed to have three formative romances. Jon with Ygritte, Val, and ?*, Dany's marriages to Drogo, Hizdahr, and ?*, Tyrion with Tysha, Sansa, and ?**. Dany and Tyrion specifically share the parallel of having three marriages, with the first two "failing" in some way.

Their ruling arcs each deal with similar themes: the makings of war and peace, the line between compromise and justice, stirrings of revolution, poverty, hunger, disenfranchisement, exploitation, religion, ableism, classism, ethnic nationalism, etc.

Dany and Tyrion share in common being enslaved. This is a very important parallel that Jon does not have in common with them.

All three are related to, and have thus observed, kings: Jon is Robb's brother (biologically, his cousin) and observed Robert Baratheon; Tyrion is Joffrey and Tommen's uncle, and has extensively observed Robert and Joffrey; Dany is Viserys III's sister, and her POV is a bait-and-switch revealing that the protagonist of the Targaryen storyline is her rather than Viserys.

They have clearly outlined parallels with specific Targaryens from history: Dany with Aegon I, Rhaegar, Aegon V, Aegon III, and the first two Daenerys', most prominently, though the entire history of House Targaryen is centered around her so really every Targaryen could be counted here; Jon notably with the Targaryen bastards/dragonseeds, including Orys Baratheon, Jacaerys Velaryon, and Brynden Rivers; he is also paralleled with Aemon the Pale Prince; and Tyrion with Viserys II.

All three are romantic idealists; Jon and Tyrion are more outwardly cynical and ruthlessly pragmatic, however, a parallel they share with each other rather than with Dany, even if Dany will ~go darker~ in TWOW.

All three identify with beast/monster imagery, and not just because of their house emblems. All three have also been subject to malicious slander, in part because of their association with beastliness/monstrousness. All three are also seen as religious sinners/heretics.

All three have compassion for the marginalized (this is a fact; most ASOIAF fans tend to see Jon as a hero and Dany and Tyrion as villains, for obvious reasons, but as far as the text goes, all three are presented as empathetic toward the downtrodden and oppressed).

All three have both military and diplomatic experience; Jon is the only formally militarily trained one, with a traditional weapon (a sword), while Dany and Tyrion have to use more creative ways to wage war and fight in battle.

All three long for home, and feel guilty for doing so. Dany and Tyrion share a specific parallel of longing for an abstract ideal of home that may no longer be accessible (the house with the red door, the cottage by the sea).

Dany and Tyrion specifically share in common that they were suicidal. Dany was suicidal in AGOT, and Tyrion was suicidal in ADWD. Conveniently, the ASOIAF fandom wants both to die (as heroes or villains), and sees nothing wrong with such endings for them. One can argue that suicidal characters dying in the end is good, righteous, and beautiful, in the ASOIAF fandom (at least when it comes to these two).

Dany and Tyrion share in common that they failed to protect an innocent––Eroeh and Tysha––and this informs their political and spiritual development as rulers.

(*? = fill in the blank as you see fit; it is contentious in this fandom to admit who Jon and Dany's final romances are, and I am not in the mood to argue over this).

(**? = I genuinely am not sure whom Tyrion's third marriage will be with).

I could sit here all day and list parallels. These are just the ones off the top of my head. As you can see, Dany and Tyrion in particular share a lot of parallels unique between them. The experience of having a terrible father, and being alienated your whole life from your own family, while also taking pride in your family name, is something they will be able to help each other understand. The books are clearly setting that up.

Why then do people replace Tyrion with Arya or Faegon or Sansa or whoever else in the three heads of the dragon theory? Don't just chalk it up to different interpretations. The plain truth is that it's ableism. Tyrion isn't an able-bodied or conventionally attractive man and thus doesn't fit the aesthetic component of the three heads.

Yet for all the talk of wanting Dany to be the "antithesis" to house Targaryen, or wanting Dany, Jon, and Faegon to be Targaryens who "end the Targaryen dynasty" (is the dynasty not already ended?), why does no one speak of how Tyrion is the only Lannister in text to actually go against House Lannister, in concrete, material ways, and has suffered the consequences for it? The one Lannister who was barred from accessing his own identity? The one Lannister uniquely positioned to bring down his house?

Perhaps it's because what Tyrion represents is something people are afraid to admit about House Stark (upheld as unequivocally heroic) and House Targaryen (upheld as unequivocally villainous). Tyrion does not just foreshadow the ending of House Lannister as we know it; he foreshadows a RECREATION of it, a REFORGING in a new name and light. Tyrion has experience running the household at Casterly Rock, and did an excellent job of it. He was Hand of the King. He's known enslavement and hunger and violence, which a Lannister typically will never experience. This gives him a unique insight into understanding the plight and trials of the smallfolk who work Lannister lands and the commoners who work at Casterly Rock. Tyrion has not abandoned his identity as a lion of Lannister, even if he feels more alienated from it than ever. Nor has he abandoned love for his family, in spite of his dark spiral in ADWD. Yet his pride in being a lion, him being the only one of Tywin's children to truly resemble Tywin (as per Genna), while also undoing Tywin's legacy of oppression, and his idealism and desire for companionship and empathy, all exist in tandem.

Tyrion WANTS to be Lord of Casterly Rock. He WANTS to rule. He WANTS to be acknowledged as a Lannister. He WANTS vengeance against his enemies, including his own family. He WANTS a wife and family. All of this exists ALONGSIDE Tyrion wanting a simple life, to protect dwarves, enact justice for the disabled, care for the weak and innocent, create more equitable political institutions, foster more accountable ruling for the people, and pave the way for peace. Rather than Tyrion being part of "the good heroic house" (Starks) or "being the antithesis of House Lannister and dying to eradicate the house," Tyrion is clearly a balance forging new ground: an unabashed, proud Lannister, who envisions a future where a dwarf rules Casterly Rock, gets married, has children, may even be ruthless and cunning toward his enemies, but is also empathetic, compassionate, idealistic, dutiful, and kind. The crux of Tyrion's struggle is not "should I be good or should I be a Lannister," it's being accepted as a Lannister, knowing his disability, his status, his appearance, his values, his relation to his family. Tyrion as Hand of the King went against his own family, for both selfish and selfless reasons, and yet protected his family and heritage and strove to forge new ground AS a Lannister, rather than as an anti-Lannister.

This is anathema for ASOIAF fans, specifically in how they engage with Jon, Dany, House Stark, and House Targaryen. For the typical ASOIAF fan, Jon is a classic, traditional hero, unquestioned, unproblematic, unhateable. Jon is meant to "embrace" his Stark bastard identity and "reject" his Targaryen identity. His reunion with his siblings is meant to be nothing more than heartwarming and poignant. House Stark in this scenario is the "protagonistic heart" of ASOIAF, the unequivocal heroes, not problematized by the narrative in the slightest. House Stark "winning" is a moral victory, Northern Independence is reminiscent of anti-colonial justice, and a return to Stark rule is a proxy for GRRM's anti-feudalism, anti-war message, because the Starks are the good guys.

On the other hand, for the typical ASOIAF fan, Dany has to die. Now, some articulate this in the more honest, traditional way: Dany is a villain, destined to be a mad queen, and her death signifies the end of House Targaryen. Others articulate it in a more creative and deceptive way: Dany is just such a good person (with the caveat that she's still a "white woman whose arc is built on the suffering of women of color") that she clearly isn't like the rest of her family, and will happily die for humanity to redeem herself (because she'll still commit a sin; she has those dragons after all) and by dying, House Targaryen will end protecting humanity, where once it "colonized and enslaved humanity." The death of Daenerys Targaryen is supposed to emblematize a moral victory, anti-colonial justice, and a proxy for GRRM's anti-feudalism, anti-war message, because the Targaryens are the bad guys.

What we have here is that one side will win, reunite with his family, get the girl/the title/the house/the power, perhaps reject part or some of it so that the rest of his family can retain it, while the other side will have to die, either as a hero, villain, or redeemed anti-hero, and such death will thankfully symbolize humanity winning, order being restored, feudalism being destroyed, war coming to an end, peace flourishing, etc.

Where does Tyrion stand in this discourse? Usually nowhere. Most ASOIAF fans don't even care to write about his endgame; most of them write him off as a villain. Some think he'll die, some think he'll inherit Casterly Rock, but there isn't much passion in what most people theorize about his endgame. For better or worse, there is at least passion in people arguing over Jon and Dany's endgames.

In the TEXT, however, as I argue, Tyrion is someone who embraces his house identity and pride, while also going against the oppressive values of his family, and doing so in a material, concrete way. Tyrion doesn't cry about how awful Lannisters are, or hate himself for being a Lannister, or tell himself that he should give up his noble title in order to be a good heroic guy and save the day. But he DOES reflect on Tywin's evil, Cersei's greed, Jaime's stagnancy, Joffrey's petty tyranny, the near-enslavement conditions of the smallfolk at Casterly Rock, the corruption of the monarchic system in Westeros that the Lannisters benefit from, the ableism of his own family, how he benefits from the noble name that has also alienated him, etc. He seeks to protect victims of his family, like Sansa and Penny. Under the frameworks promulgated by the ASOIAF fandom, this should not be possible; he either should belong to "one of the good houses" (which the Lannisters clearly are not, and Tyrion is not Jaime, so he does not get the 50-page long PhD essays and dissertations on redemption, gender, and honor that Jaime does, despite being the more major Lannister POV character), or he should hate himself/distance himself from his evil family and die to eradicate their name (while Tyrion is suicidal in ADWD, it's not for selfless reasons; and he doesn't hate himself for being a Lannister, he hates himself for not being accepted by his family, for being a dwarf, for being a kinslayer, for being unable to save Tysha, for being hated by society).

Tyrion doesn't have to despise himself for being a Lannister in order to change his family and even be a class traitor to his own family. He also doesn't have to eschew his selfishly motivated ambitions and desires to effectuate real change. This makes him an excellent character, yet it also makes him one hard to parse for fans, not just because he is morally gray, but also because he defies the ASOIAF fanmade dichotomy of good house=good character/bad house=die (unless you're a teenage-girl coded cishet male character, e.g. Jaime, Theon, or Sandor). Tyrion isn't a selfless, abstract ideal of morally pure heroism. He has real flaws, often discomforting ones, and some of his desires are nasty. His ambition is ruthless. Yet he is still the one positioned to end House Lannister in its current form and recreate it completely.

It's clear that this is what unites the three heads: Targaryen, Stark, and Lannister, the actual heads of each house if they were allowed to be the heads if not for what makes them an outcast within their own family, embracing their names and identities while changing and recreating what it means to be each of these names. All three houses have been enemies at one point or another, but by coming together, these three will signify a real unity. Yet it's hard for fans to apply what Tyrion represents to Jon and Dany, firstly because most fans hate or ignore Tyrion, and secondly because Jon and Dany represent the two ends of the dichotomy I outlined. For fans to accept what Tyrion represents for the other two, they'd have to admit that House Stark is not the progressive, anti-colonial, feminist, pro-smallfolk force for change that fans claim it is, and they'd have to admit that Dany dying to end House Targaryen won't singlehandedly change the world and end oppression as we know it, and that House Targaryen isn't actually the devil.

A House Stark with a bastard as its head, mixed with Targaryen blood, is anathema to the history of House Stark. Have any bastards been Kings of Winter or Lords of Winterfell, save for Bael the Bard's child who killed Bael? Have any Kings of Winter had blood other than First Men blood (knowing that Starks only marry First Men-blooded houses)? Have any Kings of Winter intermingled with the Free Folk and reintegrated them into Westeros?

A House Targaryen with a teenage girl as its head may seem anathema to the history of House Targaryen, but it's not; really, it's a vindication for the women of House Targaryen. Certainly it's anathema to the WESTEROSI history of House Targaryen. What's even more anathema is a Valyrian heading an antislavery campaign and warring with other Valyrians to abolish slavery. This is the aspect of Dany's character that garners the idea that Dany is the anti-Targaryen Targaryen. Yet would not Jon be the anti-Stark Stark, by being half Targaryen and mingling with the Free Folk, when Stark identity for thousands of years has been rigidly defined in opposition to the Free Folk, exclusive of non-First Men blood, and in conformance with the Wall and what it represents?

That's what Tyrion is: House Lannister with a dwarf as its head, a dwarf who cares about women, smallfolk, bastards, commoners, children, and the disabled, who actually wants to protect the people rather than just exploit them, and who has killed and harmed other Lannisters both in the service of that cause and in service of his own goals. The other two heads of the dragon, Jon and Dany, are supposed to represent that balance and nuance as well, between embracing and embodying identity/rejecting its worst parts, destroying the old and ushering in the new.

But it's not in vogue to include Tyrion. He's not attractive enough and he's not able-bodied. He loves dragons, power, wine, and sex too much. He takes too much pride in his own identity and doesn't hate himself enough for being a Lannister. He's too ambitious. He's too ruthless. For a fandom so insistent on the aesthetics and performance of "ending the Targaryen dynasty and ushering in Northern Independence," he fits nowhere into that tapestry, so he is excluded. It doesn't sound as sexy to say he's the third head, not just because he isn't a Targaryen, but also because he doesn't fit the "pattern" ASOIAF fans want, of a "three heads" of the dragon that serves to uphold the centrality of House Stark as heroes and the centrality of House Targaryen as villains.

Yet it's for all of these reasons that TYRION is the third head of the dragon. People will continue to debate this and vehemently disagree (as if it makes sense for a completely minor character like Faegon to be the third head). However, only Tyrion thematically, philosophically, and plot wise fits the conception of the three heads of the dragon, and only he is foreshadowed to have that kind of relationship with Jon and Dany, but especially Dany.

#daenerys targaryen #canondany #canontyrion #danyrion #meta #my discourse #asoiaf meta #asoiaf #tyrion lannister #jon snow #the dragon has three heads

[fuckalicent]

the continuous fruit motifs in asoiaf when it comes to childhood and sibling bonds are so……. renly’s peach representing his ability to be carefree versus stannis’ overly uptight nature….. sansa daenerys lemon and childhood yearning parallels…… arya throwing a blood orange at sansa and essentially drenching her, sansa sharing a blood orange with petyr years later but using a spoon to keep her fingers clean…… sansa refusing the pomegranate given to her by petyr and the nod to persephone and hades and the subsequent loss of innocence……..

#cannot afford to use my brain rn but.. thoughts #asoiaf #asoiaf meta #valyrianscrolls #sansa stark #renly baratheon #stannis baratheon #daenerys targaryen

[pessimisticpigeonsworld]

Mad Queen Misogyny

All the mad queen Dany takes, from both D&D and the audience, are just plain misogyny. They are literally just repeats of common misogynistic ideas. D&D have given a few reasons for why they wrote the mad queen ending for Dany, and all of them are the same old misogynistic tropes of fantasy and mythology.

The Mad Queen:

I'm going to start this off by going into how the mad queen trope itself is rooted in misogyny. This is one of the oldest tropes in fantasy/fairytales. Whether it's Snow White's evil step mother or the Queen of Hearts, literature is riddled with mad queens.

The idea of the mad queen is informed by the desires of men to keep women out of power. Yes there are historical women who were horrible people and unstable when in power. However, those examples are not enough to justify the amount of times the trope occurs, especially since some of the examples occur after many stories have already been written (ie, Mary I and medieval fairytales). These fictional women were written as cautionary tales of what happens when a woman is placed in power.

By writing the mad queen Dany arc in GOT, D&D are perpetuating an old trope rather than "subverting" anything as they claim. The most powerful woman in the world turning out to be a war mongering and mass murdering tyrant isn't subversive in any way. The only reason it was surprising was because it came out of nowhere narratively.

ASOIAF fans who constantly try to justify this turn for Dany's book character are attempting to do the same thing D&D did. They want to employ an ancient trope to justify their dislike for her in name of being "subversive".

The Violent Woman:

A trope that stretches back all the way to the Ancient Greeks is that of the angry, homicidal woman in power. From Hera to Medea, the myths are full of women who commit atrocities simply because of anger. This trope isn't just about avenging a slight or retribution on the guilty; it's about a woman taking out her anger on innocent parties.

Daenerys has fallen into the role of the avenger many times throughout both the show and and book. She killed Mirri Maz Duur for the murder of her son and husband. She killed the Undying for attempting to trap/kill her. She kills Kraznys mo Nakloz and many other slavers for the atrocities they commit constantly on the people they enslaved.

In the show, she imprisoned Xaro Xhoan Daxos and Doreah in a vault for killing Irri and helping the warlocks steal her children. She killed the Khals who threatened to rape her. She kills the Tarleys for rebelling against the Tyrells, thus getting them killed, and refusing to bend the knee.

Every time Dany killed up until season eight, it was purely because those she killed harmed her or her allies/children. That is why none of her past kills justify her burning KL. The people of KL did nothing to her; it's not an established part of her character to harm innocents out of anger. She even outright condemns the killing of innocents in earlier seasons.

The inconsistencies show how D&D chose to blatantly ignore the complexities of Dany's character in favor of a sexist trope. They perpetuated the idea that a woman in power who is angered will ultimately commit injustice and atrocities.

Dany antis in the ASOIAF fandom are no different from D&D. A common argument used by Dany and Targaryen antis is that they are bound to be corrupt and tyrannical because they have dragons. Essentially saying that Dany was doomed to be the villain the moment she hatched her children.

They point to her dragons' existence and her conquest in Essos as reasons for her "villain arc", despite the fact that none of her actions reflect the things they claim. Dany is simply being condemned for being a woman with power; it's expected of her to be a tyrant for those reasons alone.

The Woman Scorned:

This reasoning given by D&D in a behind the episode interview is probably the excuse that I hate the most. They said that one of the reasons for Dany's descent into madness was because Jon Snow refused to kiss her back once he found out they were aunt and nephew. This is an insanely misogynistic trope.

Used time and again by writers (mostly male), this trope is about a woman who becomes an antagonist due to rejection, unrequited love, or betrayal from a lover. In the case of Dany and GOT, it's Jon refusing to continue their romantic relationship.

For some reason, this is seen as a breaking point for Dany. A woman who has endured poverty, homelessness, sexual slavery, a traumatic miscarriage and death of a spouse/protector, and the stresses of war was broken by a man refusing to kiss her. Doesn't that sound fucking stupid? Well that's because it is.

Dany has never felt entitled to people's love (with the exception of shitty writing from D&D) let alone someone's sexual/romantic reciprocation. It's out of character and flat out insulting to women to believe that is enough to make Dany into a mass murdering tyrant.

Once again, there are members of the fandom who espouse this reasoning into their own theories and metas. Jonsas especially are guilty of this; some claiming that Jon's rejection of Dany in favor of Sansa will be a catalyst for the "mad queen".

An offshoot of this thinking, is the idea that Dany went/will go mad because she was rejected by the realm.

In the show, the Northmen are dismissive or outright hostile to Dany when she arrives (even after she saves them). Due to this rejection by the Westerosi people, Dany decides "let it be fear" and chooses to burn KL to the ground.

Once again, this idea isn't grounded in her past actions at all. Dany has always known she needs to earn people's love and respect as a ruler, why should she change her mind the moment she steps onto Westerosi soil? The answer is simple: she's a woman, so she can't possibly be able to deal with rejection.

Fans theorize constantly that Dany is going to go mad and destroy KL and Westeros because the people will definitely reject her in favor of Young Griff/Jon Snow/any other king they can think of. This theory is simply clinging to misogynistic ideas about women and it's disgusting in every iteration (it also dismisses the fact that there are people in Westeros excited about the idea of Dany and her dragons in the books but that's a different post).

The Woman Bereft:

This argument is probably the least outright in its misogyny. The idea that a woman who has lost everything will lose her mind isn't a new one and it can be played in a non-sexist way. However, GOT played it completely in the sexist roots of the trope.

Throughout seasons seven and eight, Dany loses basically everything. All but one of her children, her closest advisor and best friend Missandei, Ser Jorah, a massive chunk of her army, her other advisors, most of her allies, and is rejected by Westeros and Jon. That's a lot of loss to endure.

However, Dany has endured severe loss before and never reacted by murdering a city full of innocents. Again, this decision and descent isn't backed up by anything else in her storyline.

The sexism of this idea, that loss produces mad women, is that it's rarely applied to men in the same situations. For example: Tyrion lost everything he cared about, yet he's never written by D&D to be in danger of becoming a mass murderer. He even outright says he wishes he'd poisoned the whole court, but is never portrayed as a mad man by D&D or fans.

Dany is expected to go insane after enduring loss because she's a woman. She's perceived as being fundamentally weaker, mentally as well as physically, so she must be more vulnerable to madness than the male characters.

The Foreign Seductress:

The idea of the foreign seductress is a xenophobic and racist stereotype. For Dany, her antis use the instances of her exercising sexual autonomy and her life in Essos as fodder for this disparaging trope.

In the books and the show, Dany pursues sexual and romantic relationships outside of marriage. This is something that doesn't fall in line with the medieval setting of the world. In Westeros and Essos, it's common for men to do that, but not women, due to systematic misogyny. Because of this, Dany's antis often feel free to argue that because she doesn't act "pure", she is wrong and evil. Dany's bound to become a villain because she isn't a chaste and "good" woman.

In the same way, Dany is painted as wrong for wanting to take her family's throne purely because she wasn't raised in Westeros. She's perceived as a foreign invader by both her antis and D&D.

D&D wrote many scenes of outright xenophobia from the Northmen, Sansa, and Arya towards Dany and her forces without ever condemning those ideas. In fact, they justify them by writing the mad queen ending. The fact that Dany isn't "one of them" is used as an excuse for her descent.

Dany antis also employ this rhetoric, especially when people compare Dany's conquest for the IT to the Starks' desire to retake Winterfell. It's good for the Starks to want to retake their throne because they were raised in Winterfell, but Dany has no right to her ancestral home because she wasn't raised in Westeros.

However, this idea is never applied to Young Griff, who was also not raised in Westeros. Despite this, people will talk about how excited they are for his story and how sad it is that he's totally going to be murdered by his evil aunt. Once again a double standard is applied to Dany.

All this is because Dany is a woman who refuses to conform to patriarchal standards and was raised in a foreign country.

Never Good Enough:

Dany antis and D&D thrive on applying a different set of standards to Dany than other characters. They do this an a way that's reminiscent of the double standards set for women even today.

No matter what Dany does, it's never good enough for them. She dealt with Viserys and his death in the wrong way. She didn't protect her people in the right way. She tried to abolish slavery in the wrong way. She saved the goddamn world wrong. Like nothing Dany does is right in their eyes.

In their minds, Dany should've died in AGOT being a perfectly passive woman. She refused to submit to those (men) around her, and for that they punish her.

She's wrong for fighting the slavers, she's wrong for trying to avenge murdered children, she's evil for killing to protect herself. D&D used each of her actions throughout the show that they seemed too aggressive as justification for what they wrote. Dany's antis do the exact same thing in their theories.

The mad queen Dany theory is rooted completely in misogyny. It has no true justification in the narrative and every argument conjured up is just as sexist as the trope they want to perpetuate.

#daenerys targaryen #asoiaf #anti got #anti jonsa #anti sansa stans #anti dany antis #anti targaryen antis #asoiaf fandom #fandom misogyny #fandom critical #anti d&d #asoiaf meta

[asongofstarkandtargaryen]

ASOS : Daenerys and her children

On her very first pov chapter of this book Dany refers her dragons as her children. What is more, she recalls maegi's prophecy of being unable to give birth to children and that strengthens her view on her dragons as her kids ( please note that she also refers to them as her children in previous book but since I'm focusing on Asos I won't include those quotes)

They are my children, she told herself, and if the maegi spoke truly, they are the only children I am even like to have

Asos, Daenerys I

She feels lonely because the prophecy makes her believe that House Targaryen will end up with her but she finds solace on her dragons:

House Targaryen will end up with me. That made her sad. " You must me my children" she told her dragons, " my three fierce children. Arstan says that dragons live longer than men, so you will go on after I am dead ".

Asos, Daenerys IV

However on the same chapter we start to see glimpses that the dragons aren't the only ones Dany considers her children. We witness Dany taking responsibility of the people who followed her after the sack of Astapor. That's what a just leader should do but the way Dany talks about her subjects (who are useless in the upcoming battles and will only delay her army, mind you) is so protective of them, and almost has a motherly tone:

The raggled-taggle host of freemen dwarfed her own, but they were more a burden than a benefit. Perhaps one in a hundred had a donkey, a camel, or an ox; most carried weapons looted from some slaver's armory, but only one in ten was strong enough to fight, and none was trained. [...] Yet Dany could not bring herself to abandon them as Ser Jorah and her bloodriders urged. I told them they were free. I cannot tell them now they are not free to join me.

Asos, Daenerys IV

At the end of this chapter, after Yunkai is liberated we have the iconic "Mhysa" scene. And Dany calls her new people, her children.

"They will not hurt me", she told him "They are my children, Jorah".

Asos, Daenerys IV

So, after this chapter the dragons aren't considered her only children anymore. Her people also occupy that place in her heart.

Which is why she's hunted by the image of the dead slave kids, the slavers crucified as a warning to make her not go to Meeren. The slavers knew that Dany is above all a rescuer of the weak and knew that this horrific action would affect her - and it did. Dany can't stop thinking about those poor children and at the same time she wanted to look an every crucify child and memorize them all.

Because to her those children facing this horrible end wasn't just a casualty of the war between her and the slavers. It was more personal, as those slave kids would also become her children once she liberated their city and would be under her protection. So ofc, her fury against of those who hurt them is gonna be huge. It's the fury of a mother or "mhysa" if you prefer it.

When she arrives at Meeren she also makes it clear that she wants a victory without endangering her beloved children ( aka the people who follow her). It's a paradox bc most leaders sacrifice their followers to gain more territories. But for Dany the good of her people is her first priority:

"No" she said. " I will not march my people off to die". My children. "There must be some way into this city"

Asos, Dany V

What angers her the most is that inside Meeren the slavers have luxurious feasts while her people - her children as once again calls them- are hungry. And that's something that she's not gonna let pass.

As she camps outside Meeren some of her people are calling her "Mother" once again and she doesn't dislike the familiarity they show her, on the contrary she enjoys it.

Some of the freedmen called her " Mother," while others begged for boons or favors[...] Many of the freedmen believed there was good fortune in her touch. If it helps give them courage, let them touch me, she thought.

Asos, Daenerys V

Later on, as she performa justice to the slavers but doing to them what they did to the poor slave kids we see her falter. Because Dany has a tender heart and she doesn't enjoy inflicting pain not even to the ones who deserve it. To strengthen her resolve she brings the poor children on her mind and does what she must do to honor their tragic memory.

Dany put the glass aside, frowning. It was just. It was. I did it for the children.

Asos, Daenerys VI

#daenerys targaryen #house targaryen #a post of ice and fire #valyrianscrolls #asoiaf meta #Daenerys meta #a storm of swords #daenerys ASOS

[reignof-fyre]

I believe that Valyrians of old practised equal primogeniture, and the only thing an heir had to be was a dragonrider. Think about it. They practice incest, so the eldest (say, a daughter) inheriting meant that the firstborn son (say, the second eldest) would be a ruler anyway. Why overlook the dragonriding daughter for a dragonriding son when they'd both end up rulers anyway?

Also, in Old Valyrian, the world's "prince" "princess", and "heir" are all the same: dārilaros, as in, it isn't gendered. This is the biggest clue that they practised equal primogeniture in Valyria and likely gave that up in Westeros to please the misogynistic bastards there.

(Click for better view, from this site)

Also, they were in close proximity to the Rhoynar, and they are confirmed to practice equal primogeniture.

From what we know, Visenya was a warrior and this was accepted by her father and brother-husband as normal. She rode a dragon, which is, again, their normal. It's also heavily implied that Aegon wed Visenya to strengthen his claim to dragonstone, meaning she was the named heir of their father as the eldest no matter her gender.

The Targaryens conceeded a lot when they became Kings and Queens, one being their faith (as far as we know; they could have secretly worshipped the 14 flames of Old Valyria) and they had to have a literal contract written by Jaehaerys and the Faith to be able to continue intermarrying to keep the bloodline pure.

From this, we can extrapolate that Valyrians likely practiced equal primogeniture and it was Jaehaerys, whose best friend was a Septon, who began the trend of being a misogynistic piece of shit to the women of House Targaryen, what with how he disregarded a lot of what Alysanne said to him, disinherited Rhaenys, and allowed Lord's not of House Targaryen to choose the heir to the throne rather than let Rhaenys inherit. He also treated his daughters like absolute shit, calling Saera a whore and barely mourning Viserra, etc.

I definitely think that Jaehaerys, due to his trauma from Maegor, was slowly manipulated by Septon Barth and the men he surrounded himself with to see women as less than, and he alone planted the seeds of rebellion by giving the lords a choice in who would inherit after him when they never should have had the option because in the world of ice and fire the monarchy is absolute and the King's word is absolute law.

Jaehaerys' many mistakes gave the Hightowers a foothold and meant that the realm would undoubtedly be split when it came to the Dance because a previous king (jaehaerys) planted doubts. And also Otto schemed and plotted with alicent and likely the maesters and faith.

In naming Rhaenys heir, Jaehaerys would then have to answer the question as to why he took the throne when Rhaena and Aerea were still alive and the wife and daughter of the last King (Aegon). Jaehaerys was, in actual fact, a usurper if you looked at it at a certain point of view.

The Rightful line of succession should have gone like this going by cannon deaths etc

Aenys > Rhaena > Aerea (died)> Rhaella (if she gave up her septas's vows), or Jaehaerys > daenerys (she died young) > aemon > rhaenys > laena (dies) > Baela (jacaerys as consort) > their firstborn > so on and so forth

But it didn't. Because jaehaerys is a cunt, and so are the women hating, misogynistic andals + faith and maesters.

#anti jaehaerys i targaryen #anti faith of the seven #anti maesters #anti otto hightower #anti alicent hightower #anti alicent stans #awoiaf #asoiaf #asoiaf meta #hotd #daenerys targaryen #rhaenyra targaryen #got #anti greens #pro blacks

[daenerysies]

Kind of a rewrite of this post, trying to correct some mistakes in information and really get into how Rhaenyra's usurpation was unjust and inevitable in the grand scheme of things.

There was a peace between 9 year old Princess Rhaenyra and 18 year old Queen Alicent, but it only lasted for a year, right up until Alicent gave Viserys a son and he did not change the succession. This is when their enmity formally began, with Rhaenyra being 10 years old at the time. The Blacks and the Greens were born in 111 AC, five years after Viserys married Alicent:

At the opening feast, the queen wore a green gown, whilst the princess dressed dramatically in Targaryen red and black. Note was taken, and thereafter it became the custom to refer to “greens” and “blacks” when talking of the queen’s party and the party of the princess, respectively.

The wording of this sentence implies that it was not usual as the time for Rhaenyra to wear her house colors, 'dresses dramatically in Targaryen red and black,' as opposed to Alicent's 'wore a green dress,' and considering how young she is; it would not be a reach to conclude that this is Rhaenyra *finally* stepping out from her step-mother's shadow. She is making a name for herself, and pushing her claim to the throne; despite Alicent being openly antagonistic towards this matter. Rhaenyra is 14 here, she is not married, has no children, and no substantive rumors to sully her claim to the throne, minus her womanhood. Her being a woman is the only thing that can be used against her here, and used against her it is.

Let’s take into consideration in book how the Green’s discussed ‘matters of succession’ using benign evidence like the castle being turned into a brothel, Alicent's children and grandchildren being in danger, etc. and ultimately the only real argument they had was that Aegon was the king's firstborn son. They used agnatic primogeniture as the basis for Aegon taking the throne over Rhaenyra (a woman could inherit but her children could not because it would be through the female lineage rather than the male), and while Alicent called Rhaenyra's children bastards they were never *officially* declared as such, so this was the only solution. It's also the only saleable reasoning for the Lords to back his claim. She was the lawful heir to Viserys, something made known countless times to the realm:

...Viserys had done nothing to change the order of succession. The Princess of Dragonstone remained his acknowledged heir, with half the lords of Westeros sworn to defend her rights. Those who asked, “What of the ruling of the Great Council of 101?” found their words falling on deaf ears. The matter had been decided, so far as King Viserys was concerned; it was not an issue His Grace cared to revisit.

and to Alicent, 'who was eager to see [her] blood set over Aemma’s for the throne,' yet when she and Otto pestered the King on the succession Viserys removed Otto from his role as Hand of the King and replaced him with Lyonel Strong. He had well over 20 years to name Aegon as his heir, and steadfastly he upheld his daughter's position and claim. This cannot be refuted.

Once Alicent confirmed that Viserys was dead she ordered his room sealed and placed under guard, and had the serving man who had discovered this fact arrested to make certain he did not spread the tale. The Green's then proceeded to call a small council meeting, decide to anoint Aegon as king, then left Viserys' body to rot in bed for days while they made their preparations. All of this was done in absolute secrecy, which is a sure sign that their cause was not in the right. Further proven by them admitting that them doing this would lead to war:

“If we do this,” Grand Maester Orwyle cautioned the council, according to the True Telling, “it must surely lead to war. The princess will not meekly stand aside, and she has dragons.” “And friends,” Lord Beesbury declared. “Men of honor, who will not forget the vows they swore to her and her father. I am an old man, but not so old that I will sit here meekly whilst the likes of you plot to steal her crown.” And so saying, he rose to go.

The accounts do not add up entirely into how Lord Beesbury was murdered to ensure his quietness, but it is agreed upon that he was first blood drawn. Second blood drawn also belongs to the Green's, with Aemond murdering Lucerys despite his status as envoy:

And with his death, the war of ravens and envoys and marriage pacts came to an end, and the war of fire and blood began in earnest.

Rhaenyra's children being bastards, and that mattering towards the succession, is a red herring. In one of the earliest drafts of the Targaryen family tree, Rhaenyra was married to a Lannister, by whom she had no children (or any children at all) and was still usurped. In a retcon of that first draft from the 2009 A Song of Ice and Fire roleplaying book, she was married to Lyonel Strong and had three unnamed trueborn children with him, and was still usurped.

George finally settled on her marrying Laenor first and having three sons with him (which were rumored to be sired by Harwin Strong), and two sons with her second husband, Daemon, once he officially wrote the history out. Jacaerys, Lucerys, and Joffrey are remembered in history as Velaryon’s, and these rumors alone did not matter to the 53 Westerosi houses that fought for the Black's over the Green's 28. Their legitimacy was settled in the eyes of the Lord’s due to their dragons hatching:

“Those who doubted the paternity of Rhaenyra’s sons whispered that the eggs would never hatch, but the birth in turn of three dragons gave the lie to their words.”

Even a pro-Team Green account states that Jacaerys had ‘proved himself a man, and a worthy heir to the Iron Throne.'

The age differences have also changed significantly throughout the years, with Aegon and Rhaenyra being one year apart initially (stated in A Game of Thrones appendix, not completely sure if they were meant to be full siblings or not) to ten years apart in Fire and Blood. Yet the Dance of the Dragons still occurred. What GRRM’s original message was remains to be seen, but he clearly intended by Fire and Blood’s publication for the Dance to be a tale of how misogyny and the patriarchy kill absolutely.

We also have the Widow’s Law working in favor of both Rhaenyra and Alicent:

(...) reaffirming the right of the eldest son (or daughter, where there was no son) to inherit, but requiring said heirs to maintain surviving widows in the same conditions they enjoyed before their husband's death. A lord's widow, be she a second, third or fourth wife, could no longer be driven from his castle, nor deprived of her servants, clothing, and income. The same law also forbade a man to disinherit the children by a first wife in order to bestow their lands, seat or property on a later wife or her children.

This is an actual law put in place by a ruling monarch, something which Andal custom lacks. Granted, did Jaehaerys think about what this would entail regarding who is or could be the heir to the Iron Throne? Probably not (hello raging misogynist), but that doesn't change what was put in place. In theory Alicent and her children would be safe after Viserys' death and Rhaenyra's *peaceful* ascension. This is further proven in how Rhaenyra responds to news of her usurpation:

"As for my half-brothers and my sweet sister, Helaena," she announced, "they have been led astray by the counsel of evil men. Let them come to Dragonstone, bend the knee, and ask my forgiveness, and I shall gladly spare their lives and take them back into my own heart, for they are of my own blood, and no man or woman is as accursed as the kinslayer."

There were ways to avoid this conflict, none of which fall on Rhaenyra's shoulders. She did not usurp Aegon, she did not draw first blood. Rhaenyra did not start the war, and there was nothing she could have done to prevent it from happening. SHE was the test. The blueprint to see if the realm could handle a woman seated on the Iron Throne, and it failed miserably.

Just to reiterate from my previous post: Rhaenyra’s biggest crime in Westeros was that she dared to be a woman; a woman who wanted her inheritance, a woman who fought back against the unjust systems put in place meant to tear her apart. It is no coincidence that after Rhaenyra’s death (femicide) the dragons ceased hatching, save for small, weak creatures that would not last long. The magic died with her. Her story’s resemblance to the Amethyst Empress all but confirms that. The equilibrium of Ice and Fire was put into shambles once again upon her and the dragon's deaths. Her death means the inevitable death of all lives as they know it, and only her descendent, another little girl now fighting back against unjust systems (some the same, some different) is meant to save the world from it's untimely doom.

#asoiaf #fire and blood #bookverse #rhaenyra targaryen #pro rhaenyra targaryen #in defense of rhaenyra targaryen #pro daenerys targaryen #team black #pro team black #anti team green #anti team green stans #meta #i’m backkkkk #here to bring more pro rhaenyra propaganda for your viewing pleasure :)

[winterprince601]

symbolically, dany (probably) not being able to have kids is very powerful. throughout the first book, her worth as a queen, threat as a conqueror and value as a body is determined by her ability to breed: the prospect of a son overshadows all her achievements and her body is used and abused as the vehicle of her brother's, her husband's and various other men's conquests. that is why it is so radical when instead of her barrenness being depicted as defective, she births the dragons all by herself, all of herself, without any real male intervention. SHE is the true dragon, it's in HER blood, HER power and she flips the terms of reproduction so that she is the one inscribing meaning into lifeless matter, animating clay. any marriage she now enters will be far more on her bodily terms. in fact, there doesn't have to be a husband or a son or even a legacy - she defines daenerys and she defines targaryen.

of course, personally this is still heartbreakingly sad for someone like dany who desperately wants a home and family. even as it potentially grants her more autonomy and forges a very important maternal bond with her dragons, daenerys is still left feeling isolated from and through her body.

#daenerys targaryen #asoiaf meta #a song of ice and feels #asoiaf #a song of ice and fire #dany #:(( rereading got as i've already said and WOW dany had it rough #tw objectification #i'm not sure how to tag this exactly so that no one is uncomfortable #khal drogo #viserys targaryen #those are the main troublesome men #cw infertility #tw infertility #body politics

[the-lake-lily-alchemist]

Dany’s vision of Rhaegar in the HotU

So, I want to beat an already dead and over-beaten horse, and talk a bit about Dany’s vision of Rhaegar in the House of the Undying.

Now, I want to preface it by saying that I know this subject has been talked about thousands of times and it’s boring and tiring to talk about the same shit over and over again, but I just saw “Rhaegar is a prophecy-obsessed groomer/rapist” discourse on my twitter feed and thought I’d toss my two cents in.

Firstly, let’s look a bit at this vision as it appears in the books, shall we?

Viserys, was her first thought the next time she paused, but a second glance told her otherwise. The man had her brother’s hair, but he was taller, and his eyes were a dark indigo rather than lilac. “Aegon,” he said to a woman nursing a newborn babe in a great wooden bed. “What better name for a king?”

As we can see here, Dany, on her quest to find her children, stumbles upon this little moment long past. The text tells us that the three people shown here are Rhaegar, his wife Elia, and their son Aegon.

“Will you make a song for him?” the woman asked.

“He has a song,” the man replied. “He is the prince that was promised, and his is the song of ice and fire.” He looked up when he said it and his eyes met Dany’s, and it seemed as if he saw her standing there beyond the door.

This passage specifically has been interpreted numerous times. The text tells us that Rhaegar thought that his son, Aegon, was The Prince that was Promised. However, Rhaegar looks up when he says the prophecy, and looks directly at Dany, as if talking to her.

This to me reads as not-very-subtly being told the answer to the prophecy. Dany is TPTWP, as the author tells us through vision-Rhaegar. Thus, she is made aware of the prophecy, part of which we can find in the title of the book series.

I’ve seen the theory that Rhaegar seeing Dany was a time-space continuum bubble, of the present looking at the past, or, for Rhaegar, the present glimpsing at the future. How I see it, however, is that when he says those fateful words, and looks up to meet his sister’s eyes, he becomes both the gods’ and the author’s channel to make Dany and the reader aware of the answer to the prophecy. He sceases to be just a vision of the past and becomes the gods’/R’hllor’s voice, informing Dany. He tells her about the PTWP prophecy, because she is TPTWP!

Thus, when he continues with this,

“There must be one more,” he said, though whether he was speaking to her or the woman in the bed she could not say. “The dragon has three heads.”

we can infer that he’s saying this to Dany, because the gods want her to know this (and the author wants us to know this).

Mind you, these are visions, not just excerpts from the past/present/future. The conversation as it’s shown might not have taken place exactly like this, if it ever did. With how abrupt the cut from Rhaegar saying this to him going and playing the harp, I think he’s never said those words himself. Again, I believe that, in that moment (given that “There must be one more” and “The dragon has three heads” do not tie at all with the PTWP prophecy), it’s the gods using this vision of him to tell Dany (and the reader) an important message.

I shall say it one more time, just to be perfectly clear: IT’S NOT RHAEGAR TALKING ABOUT THE THREE HEADS AND A THIRD CHILD, IT’S THE GODS!

“There must be one more”, because Rhaegar has three children, not just two. Dany is fated to meet Rhaegar’s third child (and very probably fall in love and marry said third child, but that’s another overly-beaten, dead horse), and we as readers have been getting clues about who this child is since book one.

In no passage is it stated or implied that Rhaegar sought to have another child. He doesn’t go on and say, “When the maester has cleared you, we shall try for a third.” or “Because you can’t get pregnant again, I shall look for another woman to bear my third child.” The theory that he wanted another one, presumably a girl, to name her Visenya, is just that, a fan theory.

“The dragon has three heads. There are two men in the world who I can trust, if I can flnd them. I will not be alone then. We will be three against the world, like Aegon and his sisters.” (ASOS, Dany VI)

It’s clear (or it should be) that “the dragon has three heads” it’s specifically for Dany to know that there are two people out there whom she can trust and with whom she shall stand “against the world, like Aegon and his sisters.”

It’s not about Rhaegar thinking that his children are “the three heads of the dragon”. It’s about Dany. You would think it’s obvious given that it’s her chapter, but whatever.

#i also want to add that nowhere in the books does it say that ‘a song of ice and fire’ means Stark + Targaryen #this is also a fan theory that has become so popular it’s regarded as canon #Dany is TPTWP and she’s also Azor Ahai as it’s shown when she fulfilled the prophecy in her last chapter in AGOT #most of you are dumb tho #full offence #you guys are not reading the books properly #pick ‘em up and start reading because this shit is getting ridiculous #daenerys targaryen #daenerys stormborn #rhaegar targaryen #how tf do you read about a duty-bound melancholy book-ish beautiful prince #who loves going outside to play his harp for the people of kl #and say he’s prophecy-obsessed and a rapist #are you guys robert baratheon or smth? #my meta #asoiaf meta #asoiaf