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horizon-verizon · 1 year

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Alicent provided House Targaryen with four healthy dragonriding Targaryens when the Targaryen bloodline was most vulnerable. In return, the least the Targaryens could do is allow her son to ascend the throne to allow House Hightower to have more power in exchange for them helping to create four healthy Targaryens. It’s really weird how Viserys referred to Aegon as Otto’s blood and Rhaenyra as his own blood when Aegon is also his child and therefore his blood.

The Hightowers behaved like any other family married into the royal family would, so I don’t get why they’re so hated. If Viserys didn’t want the Hightowers gaining more influence then he shouldn’t have married Alicent in the first place. It was stupid of him to expect one of the most powerful noble houses in Westeros to accept Targaryens of their blood just being spares instead of kings.

Disclaimer:

The parts about explaining feudalism is supposed to recontextualize how the hierarchy is not itself based on a good ethics system or fair/good morals, not to justify said hierarchy.

The system (unjustly) does not enforces nor expects the King to be equally sociopolitically or emotionally accountable to his Queen Consort.

................................................

You make the mistake of thinking that in a feudal society/Westerosi/Andal culture, the King and his house are obligated to do anything for the Queen Consort except to:

not publicly humiliate her (and "humiliate" can look different according to the thing done) -- with Aegon IV, it was an exceptional situation since he targeted Naerys and Aemon simultaneously out of jealousy. As long as the King doesn't disinherit her children (if they are OLDER than his mistress' kids AND those mistress' kids ARE NOT legitimized) he is, by custom, not seen to be doing anything wrong

not deny her access to the appropriate clothing, shelter befitting her station, and food

take care of any child she brings forth

In feudal societies, the Queen Consort’s “job” is to provide heirs and like everyone else in the kingdom, she has to obey her husband’s orders. She is subject to him, she has no privileges or rights over him.

The King/Monarch is always the legal/official/customary authority over literally everyone else. This is not a democracy nor an oligarchy.

Therefore, it is actually Alicent who customarily should obey Viserys’ commands and declarations. That is her place in this hierarchy.

You may think this is unfair, but:

Alicent was definitely a victim of her father & Viserys, but she blames the wrong person for it (Rhaenyra) bc the answer is to totally buy into the sexist and authoritarian ideals against female sexuale and other sorts of autonomy--as Alicent fails into & chooses to perpetuate.

That is feudalism (the economic-socio-political system) AND absolute monarchy (the form of government). Again, she's fallen, then chooses, to sincerely buy into this system partially bc she has no choice but she also is much too inflexible to reflect on how she's essentially hurting herself and those around her or performing a sort of self fulfilling prophecy. That was the entire point! Alicen tis not unique, too, in how the patriarchal feudal system uses her up! Rhaenyra, Rhaenys, etc, too!

@rhaenyragendereuphoria states it quite simply HERE:

Feudalism is a system of servitude based on giving up your freedom in exchange of protection by a higher lord. It binds serfs to their lords, and lords to other lords all the way to the king. Yes, the whole “Protector of the Realm” is propaganda, but it’s what they believe the job of the king to be. They will give it to the strongest who can protect them from foreign invasions: and it’s hard to think of stronger than “family that literally owns dragons”. This fandom has feudal mentality completely upside down, thinking they loathe their subjugation because subjugation is an affront to freedom. Feudalism IS subjugation. What they loathe is to submit to a weakling. They despise (and hunt, and murder) the Free Folk, calling them “wildlings”, because they’d rather be free than be bound by feudal oaths of subjugation. Feudalism is the rule of “might makes right”. At its roots, it’s a military hierarchy of warlords who bind each others with feeble and fickle treaties until one of them decides to break them and attempt to conquer the others, and either wins or fails.

And in this POST:

However, no one is given rights in these societies, not even men - not the way we would define rights. Their idea of “right” is just as arbitrary as their idea of “freedom”. They are societies based on privileges, and privileges are always revocable, unlike rights.

Alicent has no independent “rights” apart from what I already listed above. At all. Especially since she isn't blood-related to Viserys. Rhaenyra has a birthright, but only once Viserys bestows it upon her.

Alysanne was a Queen Consort, not a Queen Regnant. Visenya & Rhaenys had more law-changing power than Alysanne did while being Consorts and not Regnant Queens, but Aegon’s word was final and he was the Monarch.

And all these women were the sisters of the then-Kings as well as their wives. You’d think that they would have more say, but no. They were obey their husband-kings' final words by Andal/feudal/monarchial custom and law.

There is no contract where it says that Viserys owes Alicent or the Hightowers -- all of them his subjects -- anything except military protection. This is feudalist absolute monarchy as GRRM sets it up and models after the common set up of real life feudal monarchies.

You:

Alicent provided House Targaryen with four healthy dragonriding Targaryens when the Targaryen bloodline was most vulnerable.

Already addressed what a Consort’s repeated purpose is.

And when was this dynasty “most vulnerable”? By all accounts, Viserys’ court and reign was prosperous and peaceful (expect with the Stepstones and towards the end of his reign with Rhaenyra, Alicent, and their kids of course -- but the Stepstones war didn’t affect the actual subjects [peasant or nobles] of Westeros too much to make huge differences in and the stuff with his personal family happened insularly):

Many consider the reign of King Viserys I to represent the apex of Targaryen power in Westeros. Beyond a doubt, there were more lords and princes claiming the blood of the dragon than at any period before or since. Though the Targaryens had continued their traditional practice of marrying brother to sister, uncle to niece, and cousin to cousin wherever possible, there had also been important matches outside the royal family, the fruit of which would play important roles in the war to come. There were more dragons than ever before as well, and several of the she-dragons were regularly producing clutches of eggs.

[...]

The reign of the Young King, as the commons called him upon his ascent, was peaceful and prosperous. His Grace’s open-handedness was legendary, and the Red Keep became a place of song and splendor. King Viserys and Queen Aemma hosted many a feast and tourney, and lavished gold, offices, and honors on their favorites.

(“A Question of Succession”)

If you mean Viserys having a girl as his only scion, I must remind you that:

the Targs had dragons (more dragons than ever and Aegon I/Visenya/Rhaenys, conquered Westeros with only 3)

there were no mentioned, burgeoning signs of rebellion against Rhaenyra until Alicent and Otto started to make waves (post by @theblackqveen)

While this is in the text:

After Viserys makes it clear that he won’t change his mind, it gets more settled, and again, we hear absolutely no mention of any real attempt to prepare against Rhaenyra except from the greens.

I wrote a 2 posts on HotD Alicent and Book!Alicent’s foolishness and narcissism.

THIS is what GRRM says about laws of succession:

There are no clear cut answers, either in Westeros or in real medieval history. Things were often decided on a case by case basis. A case might set a precedent for later cases… but as often as not, the precedents conflicted as much as the claims.

In fact, if you look at medieval history, conflicting claims were the cause of three quarters of the wars.

[...]

The medieval world was governed by men, not by laws. You could even make a case that the lords preferred the laws to be vague and contradictory, since that gave them more power. In a tangle like the Hornwood case, ultimately the lord would decide... and if some of the more powerful claimants did not like the decision, it might come down to force of arms.The bottom line, I suppose, is that inheritance was decided as much by politics as by laws. In Westeros and in medieval Europe both.

Still, if Alicent really is all about just following the rules and being “good”, the she would follow her husband’s order and not antagonize or contradict Rhaenyra. Because part of her Westerosi/Andal customs is that the King/Monarch is paramount and their word is law.

She hypocritically doesn’t follow the law to such a particualr "degree" or whatever that she ends up going against the authoritarian regime's ideals of King's rule and all that for her own stake...mostly unconciously.

So really, she’s about power and misogyny, since she chooses to still make her rapist son King and reap the rewards from his ascendance (who’d follow along for her and her house’s interests more than Rhaenyra would). In the show, she goes after Rhaenyra for presumably sleeping with a man not her husband....while she gives up her feet to fulfill Larys' sexual titillation in exchange for information. So Rhaenyra's sleeping with another man in a consensual setting is wrong, but somehow Alicent allowing herself to be used (she is Queen Consort, she can definitely order Larys around) and silencing one of her son's victims is okay? Both of these things that support sexual abuse? In the book, she turns against Rhaenyra when Rhaenyra is 10, and we can see the implication that they began to actually fight ever since then, so Alicent antagonizes a 10 year old. At the tourney where Daemon comes back in the book, there were Essosi people who witnessed the tension between the two.

And why does she do all that? Because she wants to empower herself, her son, and disempower Rhaenyra. At the same time, Alicent fosters an environment where this is justified.

This is why she is hated. Book!her tries to use Rhaenyra having extramarital sex as pretext for deposing her, yet she is the one going against the King’s word when it is obvious he doesn’t give three shits.

@theroguewyrm answers this ASK where the asker breaks down more of Alicent’s hypocrisy:

[...] Alicent as she has constantly held Rhaenyra accountable for having illegitimate relations with men but when it comes to her she can do it as she cloaks it under the hood of duty. The hypocrisy was also shown when Alicent tolerates every single sexual crime committed by her son in the premises of the Red Keep and outside. If it is benefitting her then she’ll permit them, she’ll stay quiet, but will simultaneously use Rhaenyra’s affair with Harwin to vilify her.

You:

It’s really weird how Viserys referred to Aegon as Otto’s blood and Rhaenyra as his own blood when Aegon is also his child and therefore his blood.

That’s because he distrusts Otto and knows Otto wants his grandkids/these green boys to inherit the throne. Otto went so far as to continue to demand/suggest Viserys change the order of succession several times until Viserys dismissed him:

The amity between Her Grace and her stepdaughter had proved short- lived, for both Rhaenyra and Alicent aspired to be the first lady of the realm...and though the queen had given the king not one but two male heirs, Viserys had done nothing to change the order of succession. The Princess of Dragonstone remained his acknowledged heir, with half the lords of Westeros sworn to defend her rights.

[...]

The matter had been decided, so far as King Viserys was concerned; it was not an issue His Grace cared to revisit. Still, questions persisted, not the least from Queen Alicent herself. Loudest amongst her supporters was her father, Ser Otto Hightower, Hand of the King. Pushed too far on the matter, in 109 AC Viserys stripped Ser Otto of his chain of office and named in his place the taciturn Lord of Harrenhal, Lyonel Strong. “This Hand will not hector me,” His Grace proclaimed.

(“A Question of Succession”)

Viserys was being a bad dad here, I agree. Otto was also stupid as fuck for this. Both him and Alicent. And when it comes to feudalism, the personal and the political are one and the same often. Viserys never learned, I think, to separate himself from kingship because the position and society doesn’t allow for this metaphysical existence, or for it to be practiced seriously and without consequences.

And these are the details of Rhaenyra’s naming-as-heir:

Disregarding the precedents set by King Jaehaerys in 92 and the Great Council in 101, Viserys declared his daughter, Rhaenyra, to be his rightful heir, and named her Princess of Dragonstone. In a lavish ceremony at King’s Landing, hundreds of lords did obeisance to the Realm’s Delight as she sat at her father’s feet at the base of the Iron Throne, swearing to honor and defend her right of succession.

(“A Question of Succession”)

Now from a more pragmatic standpoint, these lords already gave their oaths to Rhaenyra. To go back on it, while maybe welcome to some lords, would also diminish Viserys’ monarchial word’s value because of how huge the chnages are, and how he seems (publicly) to value oaths in general.

While Tyland Lannister says that he never took oaths, oaths are still very seriously taken and regarded generally in this society (or like to think of themselves as doing so).

Viserys was a bad dad. Doesn't make what Alicent did excusable.

You:

The Hightowers behaved like any other family married into the royal family would, so I don’t get why they’re so hated.

We’re talking about the greens, here, not the Hightowers. Two, though related, separate entities for now.

The greens (Alicent, Otto, Aegon, Aemond, Daeron [Helaena is not a real player]) are hated because they are misogynists turned up 11, with an over-inflated sense of their own male privilege. It causes them to maim, rape, cause genocide, attempt assassination against Rhaenyra, even disregard and turn against each other. And at last, make a 10 year old watch as his mother is eaten alive by a dragon.

Even with universal misogyny, I doubt that most other noblemen/individuals would be as murderous, stupid and audacious as these specific people.

BTW, you slipped. Aegon, Ameond, Helaena, and Daeron and the kids from Aegon/Helaena are all Targs. Not Hightowers.

You:

If Viserys didn’t want the Hightowers gaining more influence then he shouldn’t have married Alicent in the first place. It was stupid of him to expect one of the most powerful noble houses in Westeros to accept Targaryens of their blood just being spares instead of kings.

Here’s the text:

Though Princess Rhaenyra had been proclaimed her father’s successor, there were many in the realm, at court and beyond it, who still hoped that Viserys might father a male heir, for the Young King was not yet thirty. Grand Maester Runciter was the first to urge His Grace to remarry, even suggesting a suitable choice: the Lady Laena Velaryon, who had just turned twelve.

(“A Question of Succession”)

We understand through this and through real life feudal politics that a king/Monarch was expected to have as many kids as possible so that in the event one or some die, the others could take their place.

The moment that Otto allowed Alicent to marry Viserys after Rhaenyra had been heir for 2 years, all of Alicent’s kids would have been “spares”. This would be true if Rhaenyra was male.

Alicent and Otto both signed up for this.

However, Rhaenyra is female, so Otto got greedy. It is only the thought that Viserys would automatically change heirs that Otto even contemplated it would be an easy thing to have Alicent’s kids as Viserys’ heirs because he thought Viserys would pass her over.

Take a look at the sociopolitical patterns. This is always the deal for second wives/Queen Consorts. If the monarch had kids from a first marriage , those kids are always before the ones in the second because they came first/are older.

Viserys makes Rhaenyra continue to be his heir and treats her like he would his male heir in that her siblings remain the “spares” they would be if she were male. thereby putting into practice equal primogentiure.

Otto has been with Viserys as his hand for years.....why did he not anticipate something like this?

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odinsblog · 2 years

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King Charles and his … consort (abridged version)

#lol #princess diana #queen consort #camilla parker bowles #king charles #queen elizabeth #royal family #lady diana spencer

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perfectlypanda · 10 months

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“I’ll take care of you." / "It’s rotten work." / "Not to me. Not if it’s you.” - Anne Carson (Fire Noodle #15)

Had a hard time with this one and others, been in an art slump.

♥ Please do not repost. If you like it and want to show people, share a link to this page instead. Thank you!

#zutara #zuko #katara #fire lord zuko #master katara of the southern water tribe queen consort of the fire nation #fire noodle #druk #adventures of fire noodle #pandaverse #look I made a thing

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slavonicrhapsody · 4 months

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Ranni has every reason to hate Marika. She is the figurehead of an order that has caused her and her family so much misery… and yet, in the Age of the Stars ending cutscene, Ranni holds Marika’s head with such gentleness. It feels less like Ranni is putting down a tyrant, and more like she’s laying her to rest, after many long years of torment.

Ranni could have been Marika’s successor, but she rejected the guidance of the Two Fingers, slaying her own flesh in order to be rid of their influence:

“But I would not acquiesce to the Two Fingers. I stole the Rune of Death, slew mine own Empyrean flesh, casting it away. I would not be controlled by that thing.”

Ranni goes to such drastic lengths because the most intolerable thing possible to her is to be a pawn; her will not being her own, but being at the mercy of a higher power. Ranni’s quest is above all about free will – it culminates with Ranni using the Fingerslayer Blade to tear her Two Fingers into bloody ribbons, at long last giving her full control over her own destiny.

Marika in the present day is a prisoner held in perpetual torment. According to Enia and the Two Fingers,

"Queen Marika is the vessel of the Elden Ring, carrier of its vision. A god, in truth. But after the Elden Ring's shattering, she was imprisoned in the Erdtree. A grim punishment for shattering the Order, despite her godhood. The Fingers speak... "Marika's trespass demanded a heavy sentence. But even in shackles, she remains a god, and the vision's vessel.”

Marika shattered the Order, going against the will of the Two Fingers, and was punished for it gravely. In many ways, Marika’s fate is Ranni’s absolute worst nightmare. This is exactly the fate she took such drastic lengths to escape… serving a higher power with her entire being, her will not her own, but the will of the Fingers, with any attempt at change met with violent suppression, her body essentially being used as a puppet to defend the last vestiges of the Order.

“I would not be controlled by that thing.”

I think that Ranni, seeing Marika’s broken body at the end of it all, felt nothing but pity for her in that moment, despite everything she’d done. To me, the act of Ranni holding Marika’s head in her hands feels like she’s saying, “you were my enemy. But there is no worse fate in this world than what you suffered. Now, you can be truly free."

#elden ring #marika #ranni #ranni the witch #queen marika the eternal #thee mother-daughter relationship that wasn't!!!#also the parallel that the fingers will us to become marika’s consort as elden lord #whereas we choose to become ranni’s consort though she tries to warn people away with her message on the ring #also also ranni being fated to become marika’s successor but she instead follows in the footsteps of rennala #rejecting her godly mother’s destiny in favor of the traditions of her ‘chosen’ mother #there's just so muchhhh #ranni's pause while she's cradling marika's head towards her chest makes me feel something

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stardust948 · 6 months

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I don't think people realize what a power move it is for Katara to become Queen of the nation that nearly succeeded in wiping her people out.

#very throw me to the wolves and i'll come out their leader vibes #atla #katara #fire lady katara #queen consort katara #master katara #zutara #pro zutara #pro katara #katara deserved better #queen behavior

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rainbowsmagicandshit · 1 month

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Merlin Prompt/Idea:

Arthur calls a meeting of his inner round table (those that sat with him at the table of the ancient kings) except Merlin. He also tells everyone else not to tell Merlin. At this meeting they decide that Merlin will have a seat at the Royal Round Table.

Why is Merlin getting an official seat at the official and highly sought after Royal Round Table?

Because Arthur wants to marry him, of course!

This is step one to getting all the stuck up nobles to except Merlin as Arthur’s choice of spouse.

Does Merlin know that that’s Arthur’s intention with his appointment? No.

Does Merlin know that Arthur wants to marry him? No.

Does Merlin even know that Arthur has feelings for him? No.

Is Merlin increasing frustrated that he keeps getting excluded from half of the inner circle meetings despite gaining a seat at the official one? Yes.

Is Merlin going to give Arthur a piece of his mind once finds out that this entire roundabout thing was just a plot to get him as his husband? Undoubtedly.

Is Merlin going to be completely badass and show his capability as “queen” despite not knowing what’s going on? Absolutely.

What are the next steps?

#bbc merlin #Merlin #arthur pendragon #merlin emrys #merthur #the knights of the round table #merlin fanfic #merlin fandom #merlin fanfic prompt #merlin fanfiction prompt #merlin prompt #merthur prompt #Merlin is DONE #no one is telling him anything #how are they going to find out about this magic?#how’s that going to effect the plan?#what step will legalizing magic be?#I know I put “queen in the post but I actually think his title will be king consort #do with this what you will

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ginny-anime · 3 months

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Why are people mad at Helaena supporting Aegon II at becoming king?

He’s not just her husband but her full blooded brother as well. She’s more closer to him than she ever was with Rhaenyra. (No matter if the relationship was good or not) Helaena isn’t going to leave her mother and brothers, the people that have been in her life constantly. She also probably didn’t feel safe going to Rhaenyra as well.

I know that Rhaenyra didn’t have anything against her siblings before the death of lucerys. But she didn’t really have an relationship with any of them. So why would she just expect any of them to go to her instead and leave their mother and grandfather.

#fire and blood #helaena targaryen #queen consort #house of the dragon #aegon ii targaryen #rhaenyra targaryen #dance of the dragons

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theroyalsandi · 2 months

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Danish Royal Family - The Queen attends the Specialists’ 20th anniversary at Nationalmuseet Københavb (Photo by Jesper Sunesen) | April 09, 2024

#royaltyedit #theroyalsandi #queen mary #queen mary of denmark #queen of denmark #queen consort of denmark #danish royal family #my edit

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horizon-verizon · 1 year

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Different Types of Queens

Queen Consort: a wife of a ruling, living King

does not have her husband’s political powers

has a similar status as her husband (unless it’s a morganatic marriage)

Queen Regent: the wife or widow of the King left to use his royal prerogative to rule in his incapacity, absence or death

rare and unlikely to happen again in the British monarchy (Katherine Parr)

in ASoIaF, when her son has not come into his official adulthood, even when he technically is the King

Queen Dowager: a widow of a past, dead King

usually keeps the precedence/status of a Queen Consort

doesn’t have to be the mother to the new ruler

still can’t make executive, legal, judicial decisions, unless she is in line to succeed, then she’d just be Queen regnant, in which case she’s likely not use her Dowager title

in various imperial Chinese dynasties, could enjoy a lot of de facto political power

Queen Mother: a mother of a ruling, living ruler (a Dowager as well)

in the British monarchy, not really a solid or substantial title or really used

in Europe, usually kept the precedence/status of a Queen Consort

in Europe, still can’t make executive, legal, judicial decisions

in the Ottoman Empire, the Sultana, was politically only lower than the Sultan himself and enjoyed a lot of power due to Islamic “A mother's right is God's right”

in more “symbolically”-driven societies (ex. the Yoruba’s kingdoms) she doesn’t have to be a blood relative and can just be an individual of any age imbued with the ritual essence of past queens in the ceremonial sense--regarded as the ruler’s mother then

Queen Regnant: a woman who rules in her own right

the exact same status and abilities as a a male ruler

in Europe, her spouse can be a King Consort or a Prince Consort, according to the allowances by custom or power and agreement of persons arranging the terms of rule and marriage

her husband will not outrank her, nor will he have her political powers de jure

[NEW INFO] however, as we see in Queen Joanna of first just Castile and then of Aragon, queen Regnantas could still have their power materially taken from them by men/male relatives/spouses like Joanna’s father Ferdinand of Aragon and husband Philip I of the Spanish Hapsburgs -> even under laws or customs like Jure uxoris, or “right by wife”, which “describes a title of nobility used by a man because his wife holds the office or title suo jure ("in her own right"). Similarly, the husband of an heiress could become the legal possessor of her lands”; Philip I was her official “co-ruler”

#medieval queens #medieval europe #european history #european queens #the medieval period #queens #queen consorts #queen regnants #queen mothers #queen dowagers #queen regents #monarchy customs #non-european monarchy #european monarchy #definitions

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cinnabons-treasure-trove · 7 months

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Merlin is going to murder Arthur and rest of the round table knights(except Leon and Lancelot they're the most level-headed of the bunch) for getting ambushed on a stupid hunt on a beast they had no knowledge of without taking him.

Merlin: [grumbling to himself] I can't believe this–well I can–Arthur is an idiot, and the knights are also idiots for going along with it!

Morgana who is trudging by his side nods in agreement, both her and Merlin had warned Arthur of hunting down the unknown beast since they didn't know of its origins, if it was dangerous, or if it was weak against magic, of course Arthur didn't listen to them.

Morgause and Mordred follow quietly behind the court sorceress and the warlock consort as they came to stand beside them as they observed the unusual tracks; they were heading in the right direction at least.

Morgause: [hand on sword, looking boredly over to Merlin] It's moments like these I wonder why you married a foolish King.

Merlin: [massaging his head from the incoming headache, he glares half-heartedly back at Morgause] Because he's good at fucking me—uh, pretend I didn't say that.

There was silence between them, before Morgause barks out a hearty laugh(scaring away a few birds in the trees) with Morgana cackling next to her, Mordred on the other hand doesn't know whether to wish for the ground to swallow him whole or do as lord Emyrs says, pretend he didn't hear anything.

For his sanity's sake he will do exactly that.

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perfectlypanda · 1 year

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Zutara Month 2023 Day 26: How I Met Your Mother

Sneaking into Zutara Month at the last minute like what. I may go back and change the ending of this sometime, I’m not thrilled with it but wanted to finish it before Zutara Month was over.

♥ Please do not repost. If you like it and want to show people, share a link to this page instead. Thank you!