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#spn NOT breaking the narrative
i-the-winter-plum · 2 years
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i actually struggle to watch any of supernatural s15 knowing the ending because everything is so... pointless. the big bad is so big and the stakes are so much higher, and yet... nothing happens. they spent 15 seasons talking about breaking the narrative, and set up their last season for them to finally break the narrative - and they DIDN'T. everything they try makes it worse, and it constantly reinforces this big picture and the importance of this incredible story and yet... it ends in nothing.
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sammygender · 25 days
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what if i told you that there was a guy.
and the guy has awful trauma regarding something done to him without his consent when he was very young that irreparably altered him. he feels like he’s intrinsically wrong and dirty his whole life even without knowing this, then he finds out and it totally destroys him. even his father thought he was evil, and that his brother would have to either save him or kill him. the guy really doesn’t want to be evil, he just wants to help people and to be good, so he tries so hard.
and it works! he has psychic powers that everyone thinks are freakish, but he’s sure he can use them to help people. he does! reclaiming the thing done to him when he was young, even though it still feels wrong and evil, he gains more power, and it looks like he’s the only one who’ll actually have enough strength to stop the apocalypse. he can even exorcise demons without hurting the host. so, though it gets a little dark along the way, he gets to the demon he has to defeat to stop the apocalypse. he’s done everything right, he’s tried so hard, he wants to be good so badly. he defeats her-
& it starts the apocalypse. role reversal, board flips. there was a different game being played the whole time, one rigged from the beginning. in trying so hard to save the world, he ended it.
anyway. there is a guy. and his name? SAM WINCHESTER.
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hauntedpearl · 7 months
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I'm gonna give myself a headache thinking about this but the thought is in the brain and it won't leave anyway controversial opinion of the day they never should have introduced chuck, most of all as a villain. like i do enjoy the plot they did do with the existential horror of being trapped in a narrative forced to enact a badly written story for a sick man's entertainment I do but also. when you make the Eldritch tangible, you lose something!!! you lose a lot actually!!! anyway anyWAY. the villains in their story should've been themselves if that makes any sort of sense (it doesn't and it's okay because my brain is just eating this coughing this idea out with no discernable sense around it so I'm sorry) but yeah. like. LIKE. they are who they must beat. god is there and God is watching and you can't beat god because God is the alien who is running the simulation he is the one running the reality but he, effectively, does not change what is reality to you in like your everyday ykwim. ANYWAY. ANYWAY. HMMM
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starkskypines · 10 months
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sometimes i think of how Cas knows every piece of Dean’s soul and still chose to tell Dean he loved him, still chose to make this deal that would shatter and save everything at once, and i think of how cruel it all was. the curse of the empty was the curse of grief and it burns going down Dean’s throat. how much that would have to fuck up Dean to know that he has to live with all of this. that Cas left him with all of this to save him but Dean can’t find it in himself to be saved, but he tries for Cas, but Dean’s grief has always been stronger than him in the beginning because he cares-he loves so much, so it takes him time to get to the living that Cas intended for him—time that the finale stole from Dean. and i think sometimes that ending was so cruel to them both. but then i see how spn and destiel is living on. in memes. in fanfic. fanart. the Winchesters. cons. the fans. that cruelty, that tragedy happened on screen but in the real world we took it and bunched it up like play dough and held it in our hands and said “this hurts and i can make it better” and we did, through a thousand little ways and through that destiel gets the life denied to them.
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thisisreal-really · 2 years
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WHERE IS A SUPER LONG THINK PIECE ANALYZING THE PARALLELS BETWEEN SAM WINCHESTER AND WILL BYERS WHERE IS IT AND HOW DO I MANIFEST IT INTO EXISTENCE
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cassiecasyl · 2 years
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At a hotel.
Dean and Cas chillin in a hot tub five feet apart cause they're not gay.
Castiel moves closer because he is, in fact, gay.
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blorbou · 10 months
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#NewProfilePic THEYRE BESTF RIENDS. DO NOT SEPERATE.
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barry2018-2023 · 1 year
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season 7 is my favorite season to watch parts of 3 episodes from
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the-littlefangirl · 2 years
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Ok but Sam in seasons 1 and 2 is a really compelling character with his final boy could go wrong at any time vibes
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deangirldisease · 1 year
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you know when you open a post and it gives you similar post suggestions at the bottom? ive seen some of the craziest fucking takes on this website through that feature, for example just now i saw the most earnest belief and defense of not only the prequel but the prequel as both an expression of jensens care for misha (irrelevant and boring to me) and his commitment to ‘fix this’, this being the ending of dean AND cas’s arcs in spn (hilarious, utterly insane and baseless and a little sad).
theyre rly out there, people passionately watching this prequel to ‘wait and see’ how the jackles longcon will pay off… how are you STILL getting queerbaited fourteen years later??? to be FAIR, they didnt say anything abt canon destiel necessarily it was mainly abt the actors and their oh so real bond of love and care but they did talk with absolute certainty abt how jackles ‘knows theres no fixing deans ending separate from cas’ or whatever so that to me implies some degree of expecting the confession to be brought up again at least if not full reciprocation and gay sex. absolutely none if which is going to happen on jensen ackles’ money grabbing scheme of a john fucking winchester prequel. ITS LITERALLY ABOUT JOHN LIKE HOW???? HELLO?????????
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fellshish · 2 months
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just felt like letting you know im makin my way through your spn bookmarks on ao3 and its saving my life 💚 do you have an ultimate-nothing-compares destiel faves from the bunch?
YES omg these are the fics that rewired my brain changed my life etc:
And this your living kiss (M, 56k): au where dean is a self deprecating former poet who used to write anonymously under the pen name jack allen. Now he’s finding his way back to loving poetry by taking a class at a college taught by professor novak… only he doesn’t know professor novak happens to be the number one jack allen scholar in the country. Amazing. Inspiring. I’ve reread it several times and it’s probably my favourite fic of all time
The cheapest room in the house (E, 89k): one of those fics whose writing i’m jealous of, it’s mind bogglingly good. And hot. The destiel grindr fic — cas downloads grindr and dean helps him. The rituals are SO intricate. But really, nothing i could say could do justice to how good this is.
Fenario (E, 47k): cas empty rescue fic. Certain paragraphs and scenes are just seared into my brain, amazing writing. I still think about “Cas’s legs give out and he pitches forward, falling the rest of the way into Dean’s lap in a mockery of a pieta” — that’s the point where i knew this fic was gonna become a fave
Right where you left me (E, 93k): cas comes back from the empty but it’s years later. He rings the doorbell and finds dean married. This fic was an event while it was still updating. Supremely well written and with an emotional maturity needed for the theme
Am I a man or am I a muppet (G, 7k): one of the funniest fics i’ve ever read. Dean wakes up as a muppet. Just roll with it! It’s crack, sure, but so good?? This inspired a scene in one of my gomens fics even
Burn this into your brains forever (E, 10k): to me this is an underrated fic for how funny it is. Fake dating between dean and garth but don’t worry, it’s a destiel fic
Half empty (M, 37k): more of a dean study. Reads like you’re dreaming and nothing makes sense. Dean is confused about everything. Kind of a mysterious vibe, excellent writing
There is rest for the wicked (G, 14k): sleepy, domestic dean. The destiel happens so…. Idk. Naturally. It’s a fic that really stays with you for a long time
Ninety one whiskey (E, 401k): one of thee destiel fics of all time. It’s famously a must-read and for good reason. A war fic, so quite heavy and not for everyone. But an absolute experience. I read the last few chapters in bed middle of the night tears streaming down my face. Simply iconic
A winter’s tale (T, 64k): this fic forever changed the way i see cas’ human arc on the show. Not super destiel-y but can be read that way. Again quite heavy. Northernsparrow is an excellent writer.
The dean winchester beat sheet (E, 144k): au where dean is in college and in complete and utter denial about his sexuality. So supremely funny. I will say this dean is not for everyone. But to me he is iconic and i think about certain scenes still. Forever changed the song i want to break free for me.
What has eight tentacles and isn’t allowed to eat pie? (T, 16k): basically uhhhh dean gets turned into an octopus. HEAR ME OUT. This fic will change you fundamentally as a person. It’s funny but also smart. A classic!
Maybe it really is the end (M, 2k): it’s short but there’s not a word out of place. Basically, belphegor taunts dean and cas while in the body of jack. It’s so good and so underrated. I think about it all the time
How a grocer watches dean pull his head out of his ass in seven days (E, 51k): destiel written from an outsider pov, a christian lady who’s easily scandalised and whose narrative voice is SO hilarious. One of the funniest fics i’ve ever read. Fake dating too!
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bradycore · 1 year
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dean canonically did not break the cycle of abuse. that is an essential part of his character, it is in character, and it fits into and adds to the larger themes of the show as a whole. it’s how spn works: dean is jack’s father and the immense harm he does to jack is intrinsic to jack being his son. dean is the reason cas betrayed his home and family but cas only ever experiences dean’s own devotion as conditional. dean loves his family so much that he does horrifying things to sam to keep him alive and by his side. dean gets the privilege of narrative righteousness by being the most angry man on the show. dean was raised by a father who always had a finger on the trigger of a gun, and supernatural is about fathers and gods and hunting and violence and family and hell and home and love and horror, and supernatural is about how dean always. always. has a finger on the trigger of a gun.
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eisforeidolon · 5 months
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Forgive me for restating the obvious, but I was reading through an old post and it just kind of hit me in a way it hadn't before: One of hellers' most fundamental disconnects with the show (and media literacy in general) is how they try to insist parallels establish romance.
SPN used parallels to couples and romantic tropes a lot in regards to the brothers. But it was never meant as a signal that they were romantically in love or to tell you something you otherwise couldn't figure out. It was to underline what we already knew from the entire rest of the story about how they were the most important people in each other's lives. It used romantic relationships because that's a central status typically reserved only for romantic relationships - that was part of the point.
Let's take an example or two. Dean compares himself and Sam to Jesse and Cesar from The Chitters. After interacting with them for a while, Dean is like, 'Haha, you fight just like brothers, almost as bad as Sam and me' and they say that it's more like an old married couple. This is Dean comparing an exact thing that actually happens between him and Sam, silly petty bickering, to something that exactly happens between a married couple. Likewise, let's take Dean's expression and the script note he's thinking about Sam's close call in Red Meat. Michelle is talking about watching the man she loves die and how nothing can be the same, and Dean is thinking about how he believed he lost Sam earlier that same episode and reacting to what she's saying. No one is under the impression that these are signposts telling you for the very first time that Sam and Dean are weirdly, claustrophobically close in a way that compares to romantic couples. They're quick moments which draw an underline on what you already know from the way they've acted towards each other for the entire preceding (and following) length of the show. If you cut either of those moments? It would change nothing about what we understand of Sam and Dean's relationship, because that's how using parallels in storytelling actually works.
Hellers want to insist that romantic couples and tropes being parallels to D/C in and of itself proves that D/C is romantic. Why else would SPN use couples and romantic tropes?!? Well, because SPN does that all the fucking time, maybe? Which is even before you get into how superficial the basis for their supposed parallels typically are.
Let's take an example or two. Hellers want to insist that Dean and Castiel were paralleled to David and Violet from Bloodlines because and I shit you not, one of them wore a tan coat. As well as the absurdly generic dialogue line, "I was there, where were you?" being used both in the backdoor pilot and in 6x20 by Dean. Aha! David and Violet are clearly stand-ins for Dean and Cas, and they were planning to run away together, so D/C is clearly romantic, BOOM! Except literally nothing about Dean and Castiel's actual relationship lines up with that. In no sense were Dean and Castiel ever planning to run away from their families together - not at the point where Dean was calling Castiel out for pretending he didn't know where Dean was if he really wanted advice or otherwise. Unlike the actual parallels with Sam and Dean, there is no underlying narrative base. Likewise, hellers want to insist that Castiel is Dean's Colette. Aha! Cain said Dean is living his life in reverse, and he killed Collette last and his brother first, so since he said Dean would kill Castiel before Sam, Castiel=Colette, and Colette was a romantic partner, so Dean lurves the angel! BOOM! Just for the sake of being pedantic, let's break this nonsense down one more time. Cain lists Crowley as well as Castiel as people Dean will kill before Sam. Collette was special to Cain because she saw everything he was, never gave up on him, and was able to get him to drop the blade. Which is literally what Sam does during the time Dean has the Mark - meanwhile Castiel tries to get Dean to not go and slaughter the Stynes and fails and is ready to give up and kill Dean after he goes demonic. Which doesn't even get into the part where ... Cain is literally just wrong in telling his little fairy tale. Dean is not him. When given the choice of killing his brother, Cain does it. When given the choice of losing control, Cain does it. Dean tries to get Death to shoot him into outer space and then kills Death rather than actually kill Sam. Dean and Dean's love for his brother are both far stronger than Cain is capable of understanding. So the parallel life thing? Is fundamentally hooey anyway. Again, there's no narrative there for a parallel to be drawing an underline on because none of their cobbled together meta resembles anything going on in the actual text. That's not how storytelling uses parallels or any other kind of subtext, by creating something entirely separate and expecting the general audience to decipher it. Though it's no surprise they try to insist that a show would do that, because they have nothing else.
TLDR; Their entire argument is that a comparison to a romantic couple makes two other characters' relationship automagically romantic because reasons. Which even putting aside the lack of validity in their parallels ... continues to be a boldly idiotic statement given the number of actually textual comparisons the show makes between Sam & Dean and romantic couples. Again, it's no wonder they freaked the fuck out over that forehead touch, because they very fundamentally refused to understand what SPN was actually doing on literally any level.
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angelinthefire · 1 year
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Thinking about a 6-part miniseries about Cas. The premise being that there's some way for him to get back the memories that were taken from him, and he's going through the process of re-experiencing them (and this is why we haven't seen him yet, because he's been occupied with this).
So we're following Cas through time, seeing every instance of him going off-script, and every time it gets harder and harder to reset him. And there could be 3 or 4 actors besides Misha who play Cas at various points in history. And there could be returning spn actors for different angels as well as recasts for different "versions" of them. There would be a chance to get into some complex relationships between sibling-soldiers who are under a cult-like authority.
The way I'm imagining it, it would be "kalaidoscopic" to use Edlund's word for describing Cas' perspective. Non-linear narratives layering on top of each other, and making use of motifs and recurring elements in an almost dream-like way, building Cas' story as someone who fought to be his own person. The whole thing being kind of epic and fantastical and philosophical.
And of course it ends with Cas' reunion with Dean. I think in previous episodes there could be short little "missing scenes" situated within the main spn canon, to really re-establish Dean and Cas' relationship for any uninitiated viewers. But by the time it gets to the end, after following Cas' whole story, Dean is framed as the last instance in a long series of Cas' struggles to assert his own sense of right and wrong, his own sense of self. Dean is the time when it finally stuck. So there's a real narrative weight, within the 6 episodes, to them reuniting, it's not just for the sake of finishing what spn started.
And I'm still imagining the reunion scene being something like what I posted about here. Where Dean asks Cas to jailbreak Heaven with him, break the rules with him one more time, run away so they can live their own life. So that Dean is the realization of everything Cas' story has been driving towards.
And then the thing with Jack being taken over by God happens (see linked post). Because a) Cas can't just go off with Dean and leave Jack behind, so there has to be a reason for him to oppose what Jack's been doing in Heaven, and the answer to that is he's God instead of Jack. And b) the series ends on an open page, with Dean and Cas going back into the world as these twin agents of chaos and free will, and you have the sense that they're always going to be out there fighting for free will and fighting to be masters of their own lives, and the story will never end.
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charcubed · 1 year
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Hi. I tend to forget that tumblr exists and just shout all my thoughts about The Winchesters on Twitter @CharCubed, which is a problem, but for once in my life I'm posting something here!
Here are some broad Thoughts on where I've landed of what this season 1 finale of The Winchesters offered–
• I very much want season 2 of this show SO badly. I want to see how they all continue to build their lives now that we know tragedy need not be their end! THIS IS THE HEALING SHOW. That whole cast gets to write their own story... "the only thing that's worse than how it starts for a hunter is how it ends" is no longer the case, as Carlos already said... and Dean helped to free them? That fucks.
• In regards to those possibilities: now that Dean would no longer be framing the prequel as a story he's telling, it frees the prequel up to no longer be doubling as Dean's story through revealing mirroring–which is very much what it's been doing for 12 episodes. Now the monster plots and the storylines for those characters in The Winchesters can also be diversified, so every episode no longer has to include, for example... [checks notes] a situation where a character is literally and/or metaphorically trapped and has to confront their trauma, break cycles of violence, and speak truths to be freed. It's been very Loud and very much Like This Constantly because it's Dean's story, but now it won't have to be anymore, which is an interesting thing to contemplate! (To be clear, for those unaware of my history of yelling about this show: I love that it was Like This. This show is fucking genius.)
• Initially, this finale had some alarm bells pinging in my brain but then I parsed the Reasons for those things. Mary told John she had "Something to say," right? And then she never says it. That's a Chekhov's gun that's never fired and it's of course paralleling how Dean has "something to say" to Cas too. Them not speaking that truth is a problem. In addition, we also got a montage eerily akin to the 15x19 one. But these callbacks / parallels to s15 all loudly indicate something very specific: The Winchesters is an unfinished story, and this finale (like the rest of this show) is mirroring and revealing truths about the prime narrative of SPN. For one thing, with the prequel they originally expected to have 22 or so episodes and ended up having 13 to work with. For another... this is the START of their story, not the end. So along those lines, what can we deduce about the end of season 15? (Hint: that finale is not an ending either.)
• Speaking of which: We learn that everything Dean was just doing takes place in the ~heavenly~ time period before Sam “dies." This all functionally happened right after Dean died as he drove down that road. He is restless, unmoored, grieving, and–this is key–considers his "ending" to be an unhappy happy one. He's fucking around and finding out, looking for and unpacking (through his narration) what he needs and wants for HIS happy ending to look like. He found out about the Akrida being a failsafe from Chuck and couldn't resist meddling to save everyone. It's also worth noting that Dean says to Jack something like, "If you have to kick me out of Heaven then that's fine." Between the lines is the thought of "please kick me out of Heaven, I'm causing problems because I'm grieving and I'm not done, I don't want this 'peace' but would rather have freedom." That in itself is a massive subversion of the SPN finale, to say nothing of the previous 12 episodes we've received.
Anyway. So in terms of Dean's story, we now know that this all takes place smack in the middle of 15x20 timeline-wise. This checks out because Bobby's presence connects to him being the only one we saw in 15x20. And... what I personally consider to be Jack's incredibly fucked up or ~potentially taken over by Chuck~ vibes are, in that sense, consistent with 15x19 as well. (I'm so sorry but please let me drop this cursed "Alex Calvert playing Chuck" joke by Jensen from August 2022 which haunts me.)
So: nothing about the concept that @chuckwon at the end of season 15 has been confirmed or denied in canon at this point. The idea that Chuck LOST, as Dean says here, is simply what Dean may still be thinking (which makes sense). But nothing has fundamentally changed about the state of how season 15 left things in the prime narrative yet... largely because that's not what this story is / was about.
In terms of what this finale presented to us, I think "Chuck won" potential was all deliberately left open. And I continue to Call Bullshit on the finale accordingly. A Chuck won plot line COULD be used in a future sequel to great affect, or it could NOT be used in a future sequel. That will be totally up to the future authors / team behind that potential sequel to see what story they choose to tell, and where it all may or may not go. But until then (on that front) right now it's the same shit, different show, and deliberately literally nothing about that potential has changed.
• I LOVE all of the above now that I've parsed it all in my brain. It makes perfect sense. Much like we were never going see the gay angel pop up in this show and kiss Dean (with apologies to anyone who somehow thought otherwise?)... leaving other things open like this is fantastic and the objectively correct call. Dean's story is HIS story to be furthered elsewhere, whereas this show belonged and continues to belong to its cast of characters who must take center stage. But through this story within a story narrated by Dean himself, we learned a hell of a lot about his state of mind as it actively stands in 15x20. Or more accurately: the entire show reinforces and reiterates comprehensively and repeatedly that the SPN finale was wrong and bad and not the end of the story at all, and now canonically and openly and in no uncertain terms that that's how Dean feels too.
• AND THUS: season 1 of The Winchesters works as deeply clever and layered commentary on Supernatural's ending and presents the stepping stone for a sequel continuation for Dean and his family. It's also the beginning of a new chapter with endless potential for The Winchesters' cast of characters who are not tied to fate or main timeline.
I fucking love it here.
Truly, madly, deeply: ALL HAIL ROBBIE THOMPSON.
And seriously, I really hope we get a season 2 because I adore all of the prequel's characters on their own merit and I want to see what their story can become :')
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