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genericpuff · 2 months

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CHAD ANON-

Alright so I've been meaning to post about this for a couple days, but we gotta talk about what's been going on in the /r/webtoons subreddit the last couple days.

Every now and then, the heavens part and an anonymous creator will descend with their experiences with Webtoons. And they're almost never good. And that's good in the long run, because that means we have more ammunition to support Webtoons being an ass platform that benefits no one :))

Obviously the anons here are risking a lot posting this sort of stuff, so before I go ahead, let it be known that I'm gonna try and keep speculating to a minimum and just touch on what anon has provided. When it comes down to it, this post hasn't been verified in any way, so it might not even be 100% real, though there's a lot of evidence to suggest it is based on the responses from other users that validate many of the points anon makes.

I will also mention that any opinion I have regarding the contract outside of what's been provided by anon is from reading other accounts from creators who have spoken up and just generally being a community member for a long time who's been around the bend and heard a lot of shit from Originals creators. I am not an Originals creator and I have never been offered any of these contracts.

So let's get into this!

The contract 'evolving' over time was definitely something that a lot of us were at least semi-aware of, as it seems that a lot has changed since 2020 as verified by many creators who have spoken up on their contracts (or at least said what they could in light of the NDA's that WT uses to prevent them from saying anything). But I had no idea the extent to how far WT was going with it, how much they were trying to get away with. Automatically having the ability to buy 100% of the creator's IP? That is a huge, massive no-no. I've had some creators heavily imply to me in the past that they've sold off portions of their IP, but WT being given the automatic pass to buy 100% is severely unethical.

For anyone out of the loop, IP means Intellectual Property. It means whatever content is being made, it belongs to the person making it. Lore Olympus is Rachel Smythe's IP. City of Blank is 66's IP. Of course, copyright law gets dicier when it comes to stuff like fair use, trademarking, etc. but for the sake of this topic, IP just means "if you made it, you own it". Webtoons typically buys digital print rights, meaning if you sign on as an Originals, that means you can only post that comic that you sold to the Originals section. It doesn't mean you can't use other platforms for other comics, just that for the comic you sold, you have to post exclusively to Webtoons.

Webtoons is essentially trying to take that from creators by going "if you sign on as an Originals creator, you don't just lose your distribution rights, you lose all of your rights." They might still be able to run Canvas comics separate from Originals, but whatever they sold to Originals is no longer theirs to own. And the kicker is that it's, of course, for a very low fee. Buying out 100% of someone's IP should NOT come cheap, but WT is undoubtedly offering pennies in the hope that someone bites for that 'exclusive' Originals offer.

This. This is a big one. I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure this is massively ILLEGAL.

Just like with the IP rights, creators should not automatically have their printing rights taken from them by a digital publisher. They can make offers, sure, but they can't force creators into giving up their rights for physical publishing when they themselves are not a physical publishing house. Some series do get physical prints through other publishers like Random House (ex. LO) but a digital printing platform should NOT be able to restrict the printing rights of a creator who has only sold their series for the purpose of digital distribution. Especially because, again, printing rights are usually sold for massive gains for the person selling them - not a portion of month's rent for people living in a shitty New York apartment in 2024. That is what Webtoons thinks your printing rights are worth.

This is one that I've been very certain of for the past little while, particularly due to my past discussions regarding LO's merch. Because let's face it... it isn't good.

But I don't hold Rachel accountable for this shit because she's not the one making it, it's almost certainly some in-house designer at Webtoons or some other third party through Random House Worlds. Sure, it says "By Rachel Smythe" but that's more so just for marketing at this point, because no one wants to buy merch made by Chuck the Penguin House merch guy.

Remember when I said LO's partnership with Inklore / Random House Worlds was gonna be purely for cheap merchandise in the realm of cookbooks and card decks?

Yeah.

Point is, it's clear a lot of creators who are part of Webtoons' merch program may not even have any say or choice in the matter. Of course, I don't know what Rachel's contracts specifically are like, so I won't speculate on that too much, but there's a lot of evidence to suggest that she may not own as much of LO as she used to. She was definitely a part of the older contracts from 2018 at one point that didn't have the more predatory tacked on bullshit like the Minimum Revenue Threshold, but... she's renewed her contract since then. So it begs the question of how much LO has suffered not just on her account of being bad at managing a team and writing a long-form story, but at the hands of Webtoons dipping too much of their hands into her work.

Oh look, another highly unethical if not outright illegal thing! Digital print publishers can't be your agent! Repeat after me -digital print publishers CANNOT be your agent! As anon explains here, it would make it far too easy for publishers to steer their creators into directions that only benefit the company. Agents are like lawyers for artists, their job is to protect writers, actors, artists, anyone who's trying to enter some kind of media industry. Most publishing agencies won't take unsolicited manuscripts for publishing, which means writers need agents who are willing to vouch for them and help them connect with publishers. Webtoons being the publisher AND the agent for creators... seriously, that's fucked up. It means Webtoons can direct creators to do whatever benefits the company itself, not the creator. But hey, we already knew that was the case as soon as we saw "Webtoon would be able to automatically buy 100% of your IP" LOL But if you needed more to support the sheer predatory audacity of Webtoons as a company, there it is.

This is the sad reality for a lot of content creators. Comics aren't a new industry, but webcomics are and a lot of the people going into them are either extremely young or just never learned how to navigate the professional world. We talked about this issue last week and now here it is in action - a lot of creators don't even realize they're supposed to hire lawyers for contracts like these, and those who do... can't afford them.

And again, I'm very aware that this reddit post isn't exactly substantiated by anything beyond anon anecdote (such as a copy of the actual contract) but a couple other people in the thread who were offered contracts also came forward to express the similarities - and differences - between what they were offered and what OP was offered.

(these responses are actually gone now but that's why we have the power of screenshotting as the thread was happening LMAO yay me)

This thread is also being discussed on Twitter:

For those who are as old and falling apart as I am (/hj) and remember when Youtube was still coming into its own as a platform, what Webtoons is doing to webcomic creators is very similar to what businesses like MakerStudios did to Youtubers back in the day - signing creators into predatory contracts with the promise of fame and fortune, just to pull the rug out from under them with shit pay, shit management, and less perks than they had just doing it all on their own time and dime.

Webcomics, as a blooming industry, are now going through the same problem as Youtube did back in the late 2000's/early 2010's. No one knows how to navigate the industry. A lot of people and businesses don't even know how to profit off it, at least not sustainably (and for some platforms definitely not ethically). Very few people have come out of this industry with the money and fame they were seeking in the long-term, both because it's easy to burn out quickly but also because there is no long-term yet due to this being such a new industry... and those who have come out with those victories are often people who are still just pursuing the traditional comic publishing ways of glory, by seeking out agents, signing print deals, and doing everything that any other freelance or contracted comic creator would do, because it's safer and offers more structure than what webcomics are offering on their own. There are no regulations, no protections in place looking out for creators, it's basically just a free for all of young people looking to monetize their creations and businesses willing to take advantage of those people for a quick buck.

I don't think any of this means that webcomics have to be exclusively relegated to being a "stepping stone" for traditional print comics or grander media like film and television. They're a medium in and of themselves, a very accessible medium to boot, that welcomes anyone regardless of their status, technical skills, or background. They're wonderful for that and I think more people should be willing to give webcomics a try as a medium if they want to express themselves on their own terms.

But as I've talked about in the past time and time again, there's still going to be a separation between doing webcomics as a passion project or a hobby, and doing them as a profession. When it comes to the latter, you have to be willing to treat it professionally. You have to recognize that there will be those out there who will take advantage of you for money, because that's what the professional world is all about. This is unfortunately something a lot of creators just don't realize, because we're going through those same growing pains a lot of Youtubers have gone through (and still go through) - learning how to navigate our passion as a job, with all of the legal mess, dotted lines, and legal stipulations that come with it. And we're in the midst of that learning now, by seeing the actions of companies like Webtoons that only seek to exploit creators rather than foster them. It unfortunately will take more creators getting screwed over before anything changes. But we have to be willing to talk about it, every single time. We have to be willing to separate the creator and their own faults from the faults of the platform that's hosting them - a creator can be both lacking in their own skills as a creator as well as lacking in support which makes it impossible for them to hone those skills.

And yes, I say all of this because it concerns the criticisms I make of creators like Rachel Smythe. I think there are a lot of things she does that are indicative of her as a creator and her inability to act professionally in this industry, from LO's rampant misogyny and objectification of women to her own misfires when interacting with her fandom. But there are also just as many things that can be potentially traced back to the platform - it's hard to make better content when you're constantly being exploited and hung out to dry.

Like anon, I too hope that more creators will be willing to stand up and speak on behalf of themselves and their peers, to push back against these contracts. It's gonna suck. It's gonna be hard to want to make those moves when just about every creator is just trying to put food on the table. But for every anonymous creator who stands up and speaks, for every person who isn't willing to sign those contracts and talk about the reasons why, for every storyteller who uses their skills to spread the message, the power they have grows. We have to make it impossible for Webtoons to continue to ignore.

After all, it would be a real shame for more of these stories to come to light just as Webtoons is seeking an initial public offering in the stock market. Wouldn't that just be so unfortunate for them? :)

#webtoon #webtoon critical #fuck webtoons #support small platforms

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manudraws · 4 years

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I’m way too obsessed with Lore Olympus by Rachel Smythe so I just HAD to draw my ocs Banwen and Zoe as Hades and Persephone, sorry I don’t make the rules

#none of the character designs belong to me #they belong to the lore olympus creator #lore olympus #persephone #lore olympus persephone #lo persephone #lo hades #lore olympus hades #persades #persephone and hades #persephone x hades #hades x persephone #oc #ocs #Zoe Vera #Banwen

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alatismeni-theitsa · 3 years

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Idk about you, but what I love most about Americans is how they explain our own history to us and refuse to accept that some of the shit they produce are offensive. Prime example is Lore Olympus, where the creator gives zero shits about the opinions of Greek people but it's generally done with every single (usually ancient) Greek piece of media.

I've had people tell me I'm wrong for wanting the Greek gods to look Greek. Why are they so insane?

They have this problem because they follow the mindset "Greek mythology = American White things, and we have to sUbVErT American White things. It's so white, it's so booooring!" That's why they don't do the same with almost every other ancient pantheon in the world. They don't see it as product of White Culture (ew, this term....) so they don't have touch it.

Meanwhile, they feel SO comfortable with changing everything about an ancient pantheon from a foreign culture 2000 years later, as if the previous history and depictions didn't matter.

"The Greek gods belong to all of us", yes, so every other pantheon, with that logic. I don't see folks adding a North Native American looking person to the Nigerian pantheon..

For some reason they also seem to think that if you're not an oppressed minority in the US, you shouldn't have any problem with the changes. But... the world is not the US! The US exports media to the whole world and that's why they should be careful when they behave as if their demographics are the only ones that matter.

"But the ancient Greeks did-" YOU ARE NOT an ancient Greek! You are VERY removed from our heritage and these people! Greeks are not ancient Greeks either and that's why, in serious works or works that have serious monetization, we don't touch certain things because there is heritage behind them! (I am not talking about a fanfic obviously)

Greeks didn't have a problem with how the Greek pantheon looked either (for millennia) before 21st century Americans told them how "non diverse" the pantheon was. Even today Greeks who have no idea about internet American discourse (aka 70% of the country and maybe more) think it's simply crazy for Americans to come and change what we don't want to change. And this also goes for how the gods behave in modern fictional stories.

"But why is this an issue?"

Because as a people you've made billions from books, movies and comics from a vital part of our culture with the most inaccurate shit and straight up offensive stuff towards the gods and the Greeks (exotization and not listening to us). Greeks automatically consider most US American big media on Greek mythology garbage in quality, if that tells you anything. Now some other creators in other countries have followed suit and it's even more unpleasant.

It would be unnatural if we didn't talk about it.

"Why don't you make your own media and leave us alone?"

That's funny because not only we don't have the budget (they know shit about Greece) and we are a turd compared to the US industry, but this phrase is also similar to the one famous writers use when they don't write a demographic well. "Well no problem I misrepresented X group. This group should write their own stories with good representation!" Yes, but you have immense influence so you also need to learn how to write the group respectfully!!

#answered #greek speaks #greek representation

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cmcameron · 2 years

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Favorite Webtoons that isn't Batman?

OOOOOOOOH! This one's a good one. XD Here's a list:

Morgana and Oz

"What happens when a struggling witch meets an angsty vampire? Either love or war. Morgana belongs to a long line of witches, and Oz to the rival vampire clan. After a chance encounter… and maybe a few stray spells… these two need to find a way to work together, or risk all-out war between coven and clan."

I love this comic, it's so cute. Colors are a 10/10 (you'll see a trend about me talking about colors).

Of Swamp and Sea

"When a monster hunt gone wrong sets two strangers on the same path, they discover their relationship may be more than strictly professional. Enter a world of dangerous beasts, dark magic, and perilous circumstance. When everyone has their secrets, the truth is as murky as the waters of the deepest swamp."

Love this comic's art style. A lot of the time Webtoons Creators use 3D backgrounds (which is 100% understandable, making webtoons are tough and anything you can do to make things go by faster I stand behind), but these mad lads are still drawing everything by hand. Colors are a 10/10

Eaternal Nocturnal

"The man of her dreams does exist… too bad she can’t fall asleep. When Eve is visited one night by a mysterious apparition, she finds that her chronic insomnia is miraculously cured. Meanwhile Dae, the dream eater, finds himself unexpectedly and unwillingly drawn to Eve. This can either be a dream come true or their worst nightmare."

Love the concept and how things are progressing so far!

Siren's Lament is also fantastic btw.

Lore Olympus

I'm currently fast passing these Episodes because I'm so desperate for content.

Suitor Armor

"Lady-in-waiting, Lucia believes getting through the royal wedding will be the toughest part of her new life. That is until she finds herself falling head over heels with Modeus, an up-and-coming knight to the king's guard. With her newfound interest, she is quickly awakened to the mysteries of the kingdom when she learns Modeus is in fact an enchanted suit of armor without a soul. Could there be more to him than just shining armor?"

God I remember Purpah doing a bunch of MSA stuff back in, 2012/2013 and I LOVED her color choices. I remember when she posted the first art piece with Modeus and thinking 'I reeeaallly want this to be a comic SO BAD' AND NOW WE HAVE IT AND IT'S A 10/10. Highly recommend.

Castle Swimmer

"What happens when your entire life is ruled by a prophecy – your future foretold by people you’ve never met, who died long before you were born. Such is the story of two young sea creatures. One believed to be a guiding light for his people, a Beacon who will lead them to a bright, prosperous future. The other is a teenage prince for who’s destiny is to KILL the Beacon so that HIS own people might thrive. When both reject the course set for them, it leads to a raucous adventure as big and unpredictable as the ocean itself – and a romance that nobody could have predicted."

I love the colors and backgrounds for this comic omg. YES.

Love Advice from the Great Duke of Hell

"The girl of your dreams barely knows you exist. Your friends can’t help. Your family is clueless. So where do you turn for love advice? Who can provide you with that essential assistance for the lovelorn? If you’re average everyday teenager Paul, you summon a powerful demon from deep in the recesses of Hell and frankly, hope for the best."

This comic cracks me up omg.

Arial Magic (Completed)

"The daily life of an apprentice witch."

I love the colors for this comic SO MUCH LOOK AT THE CLOUDS!!!! I hardly remember the plot (it's been awhile), but oh boy do I remember the colors.

Sithrah (Completed)

"Nirvana Page wanted to see the world. Traveling by private seaplane with her father on their annual vacation, together they explore exotic places and discover remarkable wildlife, and even if it’s only for a few days, she gets everything a seven-year-old girl could hope for. That is, until a mysterious force crashes their plane, separating Nirvana from her dad, and stranding her in a strange and unfamiliar land. It’s there she encounters SITHRAH—a mysterious being who could hold the key to finding her father—and begins a grand and perilous adventure that will bring her to the end of the world and beyond!"

Jason Brubaker does a lot of cool stuff, and I love his colors. Plus I love that he makes his Webtoon comic as a traditional comic first, then broke apart the pages to fit the scroll format. It makes it so that you can have a printed comic AND a webtoon.

Aka I love owning physical comics and I hope more Webtoon originals can be printed. Not just Lore Olympus.

Erma

"Erma is like any other normal child. She goes to school, plays with friends, and even spends time with the family. It just so happens that she is the daughter of a ghostly spirit and tends to use her haunting abilities for everyday antics, whether for better or for worse."

This comic has BONE vibes and I love it so much. I seriously think there should be more black/white wecomics. Not just because manga, no, it makes the process quicker and it makes printing comics SO MUCH EASIER. I love colors, but color correcting for print is a PROCESS.

Novae

"Raziol is an astronomer with a romantic heart. Sulvain is a kind-hearted necromancer with a troubled past. A strong connection forms between them as they discover the cosmos together, and their relationship blooms. But trouble lurks in the streets of Paris. When the body of a fellow astronomer is found on the steps of the Academy of Sciences, signs point to dark magic and Raziol and Sulvain’s lives become entangled in ways they could never foresee. LGBT+ M/M"

The... The colors are so good. ;w;

Fins & Crinolines

"When a mermaid and a centaur accidentally cross paths and decide to travel together, they end up on a journey that leads to more than either of them ever expected!"

Not a lot of episodes and episodes only come out sporadically (I can 100% understand, making Webtoons is not easy. Especially when it's a hobby/side project). But I LOVE THIS SO MUCH.

Punderworld

Another Hades/Persephone retelling and I AM ALL ABOUT IT. Solid comic.

#batman qa #batman questions #qa #questions #asks

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teddycake233 · 3 years

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Ever since @semisolidmind created the Hades and Persephone AU I had to draw my favorite scene from Lore Olympus (chap. 57)

Your boyfriend belongs to @invertedmindinc

Lore Olympus belongs to their creator on Webtoon

#your boyfriend fanart

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antiloreolympus · 3 years

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9 Anti LO Asks

1. anyone else notice echo is colored similar to hades too? so hades has the hots for a tiny hot pink variant of his mom, and hera (apparently) wants to sleep around with a female version of hades? rachel you know there are other colors, right? tell me you know that

2. hi, im someone who dated someone who was extremely hateful but considered me one of the "good ones" of my race: hera doing that with echo is extremely dehumanizing and, seeing as nymphs are a different race in LO, really racist! i understand there's no actually IRL races involved in LO, but the fantasy racism allegory is still there, and they all look bad! very, very bad! why am i not surprised the well off white lady would have unintentionally bad race takes in her comic! big yikes!

3. server x royal and boss x worker is VERY popular on webtoons in general, but at the very least the majority of them are all 21+ characters with emphasis on them being, well, adults. LO stands out because hades is depicted so much like an old man even by WT standards (40s according to RS) and persephone is ... not, she in canon is stuck at 19, so she's more akin to a high school MC than the MCs from adult/sex-filled romance comics that LO tries to be. It's kinda creepy for that fact, tbh.

4. with recent anons i have to say again that it's unlikely RS puts any of the harmful shit into her work with any ill intent. she's just ignorant and also doesn't think. except maybe that classism because it's so blatant that it's hard to believe RS really doesn't notice it??? is she ever going to bring it up??

5. thats what i dont get about the stans. they've been flooding every single mythology and pagan tag for years now where they shouldnt be, they've harassed and threatened pagans and greeks for not bowing to LO and RS's "genius", they've tried to tamper with actual wikipedia pages, and have doxxed and sent death/r*pe threats to critics and fans alike, but they act like tumblr having a broken tag system is our fault and we must accommodate them? these are grown adults acting like entitled children.

6. i dunno if anyone remembers the "Our company's Women of Color" meme that was just a bunch of white women in rainbow-colored shirts, but ... lore olympus. that's lore olympus. i havent seen that meme since 2015 but its LO to a fault. rachel thinks women of color means purple and pink.

7. wait is rs going to make hera x echo a canon thing? didnt hera torture and basically magic murder echo in myth? how is that a healthy relationship? then again this whole comic is about romanticizing a r*pist and his kidnapping and forced marriage of his victim into a "love story", so i guess its not shocking rachel has some bad takes on "improved" pairings for her girlboss, karen version of hera.

8. As a response to your most recent anon, as a Greek myself, the story is just the same old boring cliche of romanticizing a part of our mythology, same as Percy Jackson or Song of Achilles (another cheap attempt of making profit out of a culture that doesn't belong to them, but eh)...Our mythology has been SO overused and 'defiled' that honestly, it is mostly makes me indifferent than it makes me displeased..Not only Americans but also Europeans have been leeching off of our cultural history for EONS and no matter what we do, they will continue to do so...my word of advice to anyone thinking they are offending Greece or smthng by enjoying these pieces of media is that it is okay if you like them, some of us like them too, some of us don't, it happens..just remember that whatever you read is most certainly a retelling and that the actual material is much less 'enjoyable'

9. So I dropped Lore Olympus a while back...I liked it at first, considering it just a simple piece of media to consume but some people criticizing it had some really good points...so after some consideration I stopped reading it..but lemme just say, the death threats and blatant hate ain't it..it is entirely possible to like a story AND being able to see the flaws in it...all the antis sending death threats to fan content creators and calling fans "apologists" was too extreme...everyone is allowed to have their own opinion on the media they choose to consume and sending hate to one another is a completely pointless notion🤷

#anti lo #anti lore olympus #lo critical #lore olympus critical

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my-faymelodyz · 4 years

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“Persephone”

Bro I have been wanting to draw her so badly I finally got the motivation to draw her

I really like how this came out :3

Persephone’s design belongs to the creator of “Lore Olympus”

I am obsessed with the story

(it’s on WEBTOON )

It is a little bit for mature so just a warning there

But yeahhhh

I am happy on how this came out!

#my art #kv art #heehee #yeet yeet #persephone #lore olympus

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cheemsborger · 4 years

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Athena would definitely be a lesbian if she wasnt aroace because have you SEEN her oh my god

all art belongs to the creator of Lore Olympus on Webtoon (Taken from Episode 91)

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genericpuff · 10 months

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Genuinely curious as to if you asked permission to use Rachel’s characters and she said yes or if you just decided Lore Olympus is popular enough to make a fan comic of and are hoping you don’t receive a cease and desist? Can anyone create a remake comic of original content and just change what you don’t like about it and it’s considered legal if you say the characters belong to the original creator? There is plenty of disappointing media out there that could be remade. I understand you cannot use their characters for profit so is just posting it ok?

Yes, anyone can, because it's called fanfiction lmao Obviously in my case the term "fan" is being used loosely here as at this point it's more like "foe"fiction LMAO but the same principles apply. Unless I try to claim LO is my own creation or make a profit off Rekindled, I should be in the clear. If legal action was taken against me then it would set a precedent against all forms of fanfiction, rewrite, redraw, etc. content around LO which are all essentially doing the same thing Rekindled is doing. I think people tend to view Rekindled as somewhat of an "exception" that's vulnerable to legal action because it's an actual weekly comic put into practice in the same playing field as LO (though they're on massively different bases obviously LOL), but there's not much more separating it from the LO redraw accounts or even the genuine fan accounts that have learned how to draw in Rachel's style (and use it to make their own LO self-inserts and whatnot). I had the time and resources and experience to do what I do through Rekindled, but every redraw, rewrite, fanfiction, etc. account are making the exact same statement I am, whether intentionally or not - "I do/don't like the canon, but/so here's what I think it would be like if it went like this".

There is definitely plenty of media out there that could be remade, and a lot of them are by the fanfiction writers out there who are filling that niche within their respective fandoms. LO is the one I want to do because it's the one that interests me and compels me the most to rewrite.

Not to mention, it's already a bold statement in and of itself to say that I'm "using Rachel's characters", a statement that likely wouldn't hold up in court LMAO Her "characters" are literally just stylized self-insert versions of public domain figures. She did not write The Hymn to Demeter. She did not create Hades, or Persephone, or Hecate, or any of the other characters she writes about. She does not own an entire religion or its deities. The only thing that she really "owns" is the licensing rights to the name "Lore Olympus", and while the style of LO is very unique and identifiable, you can't trademark/copyright a style because that uproots the entire foundation of what art is (ironically no one has had an original idea SINCE the Greeks, we all just learn and adapt our styles based on other artists that we get inspired by and learn from).

Shit, there are series completely unrelated to LO that get harassed or otherwise warned that they could cross into "legal territory" with LO just because they're Greek myth comics. Punderworld, Theia Mania, H x P Ficlets, all of these are comics that also tackle the H x P myth, and while they aren't attempting to do the same thing as Rekindled (as they exist on their own terms) it's really disappointing when I see people talk about these comics purely through the scope of Lore Olympus as if LO invented Greek myth. If WT/Rachel tried to pull rank over the story's "characters", they'd be picking a fight with every other Greek myth comic, book, movie, etc. and they oughta know that's not a fight they're gonna win lol

So everything beyond LO's branding is, in and of itself, fanfiction. Rekindled is just another level deeper by being fanfiction of a fanfiction. As long as I'm not profiting off Lore Olympus' namesake or distributing my work with the misconception that I created LO, it's legally fine. Morally, I'm sure it doesn't exactly make me a saint to do it, it definitely took a lot of hubris for me to say "yeah I don't like how you wrote your story enough that I felt the need to rewrite it completely" and I wouldn't blame anyone for thinking doing so is icky. There are certain lines I won't cross - I don't use the general LO hashtags because my content is very critical and my work isn't really for the fans, I don't encourage anyone to "show Rachel" what I do here because none of what I do here is obligated to be seen by her (and I know it wouldn't be in her best interest to see it anyways, she's literally said that she doesn't like criticism so why tf would I wanna show her a comic that exists to criticize her work lol), and I'm not planning on posting it to Webtoons because that's Rachel's territory. I don't want to overstep both in the legal sense and in the moral one. I think it's more than enough for me to just post my stuff here for the people who are seeking it, and not profit off it or directly affiliate it with LO/Rachel beyond crediting.

All that said, in a moral and legal sense, what I'm doing is literally the basis of fanfiction, and I wouldn't be going to such lengths and spending this much time every week putting out episodes every week if I never cared about LO and how it made us all feel, even if some of us don't love it as much as we used to.

#also just as some food for thought and because i couldn't find a place to fit it in the post #sonic mania ended up being one of the best games in the sonic franchise in over a decade and it was made by a sonic fangame dev #a lot of shakespeare's most beloved plays were also 'stolen' from other works #and don't get me started on the screenwriting industry #many of the books they adapt into film are completely rewritten from weaker source material or material that just won't work in movie form #obviously sometimes it's for worse and not better #but rewriting works you're dissatisfied with is an age old tradition IMO #fifty shades of grey exists and it was literally twilight fanfiction when it started LMAO #innovation is found in fandoms #i could just be haphazardly defending myself tho LOL maybe i'm just an asshole #lore olympus critical #lo critical #anti lore olympus #antiloreolympus #ask me anything #ama #anon ama #anon ask me anything #lore rekindled #lore rekindled comic #lore rekindled ama

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alatismeni-theitsa · 5 years

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Lol about the LO fans. For all we who dislike the comic we have to bear it in every single hashtag related to Greek mythology without complaining because the fans won't even bother to tag it... And we have to tag the anti thing? Just LOL. Last year I had to bear all the rape and triggering without complaining because whenever I complained about it they would come with death threats. Way too much hipocrisy.

True, sometimes tagging doesn't happen on the other side as well! And some fans of LO can be really upset when they see someone disagree with something they enjoy.

And it's so strange that when some Greeks (and some non Greeks) voice concerns about the bad depiction of the Greek culture, we are apparently spoiling the experience of LO fans. While... the comic itself spoils my actual culture?? But I am supposed to hide my opinion behind a tag so it never reaches the people it has to reach? (The people searching about this comic).

I never said "don't read the comic", I havent been disrespectful and I haven't attacked or harassed anyone. Yet, my mere opinion inconveniences people so I have to hide it from their view.

Plus, at the time when I was getting LO asks, the creator threw shade on Twitter, writing in the comments that we who have a problem with it are ignorants and haven't researched - our own culture. Yeah right, I am sure. So people like me, Greeks who deem her portrayal problematic, are automatically seen as stupid and not knowing-loving our own culture. I hope you guys understand that it's incredibly condescending on the creator's part. I hope you understand who you are supporting.

I promised I will tag appropriately in the future. However, I am tagging this specific answer with "Lore Olympus" because I want you guys to see it. I want you to learn how condescending the creator is to people who disagree, even if they are Greeks immersed into the culture. I want you to see how people are harassed by your fandom and how Greek people's opinions are deemed not to belong in the tag when they inconvenience you. I don't condemn the whole fandom of course but, as a community, you need to encourage your people to do better.

#lore olympus #answered

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amanehmd · 4 years

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I love Lore Olympus, from the story to the characters and definitely from each panel of art that the creator offers! So here’s a fan art tribute to my favorite couple in that WEBTOON comic. This is in a similar style to Rachel Symthe’s work, it was tons of fun! Hades and Persephone are on their way to the mortal realm and this time Hades decided to carry her💚 These characters belong to @usedbandaid 🎉💚🎉💚🎉 @webtoonofficial #loreolympus #WEBTOONFanArt #persephone #hades #webtoon #fanart #loreolympusfanart #love #couple #artwork #digital #digitalart #procreate #procreateart #ipadpro #pink #blue #drawing #draw #art #instagram #instaart #instalike #artistsoninstagram #webtoon #comic #fan #artlife #myart #amanehmd https://www.instagram.com/p/B7Zfc5pjx4O/?igshid=1d7nd8r32je6v

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genericpuff · 1 year

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Did you hear about the "do not trace or use my work" update RS has on... I think her Twitter? @hestia-is-ace-pass-it-on knows more about this. I'm just wondering if this is going to affect Lore Rekindled at all since your series is an AU thing?? (I hope not cause I really like Lore Rekindled).

lmao yeah I heard about that, frankly I'm not worried, it's not going to affect Rekindled in the slightest as far as I'm concerned because even the panels that are sourced from S1 LO (like the Persephone looking up at Hades one, the Cerberus one, etc.) are still redrawn by my own hand from the bottom up, I don't directly trace them and I'm not copy + pasting them from LO and just calling it a day. Not to mention (and IDK if Rachel realizes this or not) those kinds of "please don't trace/use my art" warnings are more for people who trace/rip art and pass it off as their own, i.e. deliberate theft. Lore Rekindled is advertised as a fanfic/foe fic/AU project with proper credit given to Smythe and disclaimers that Lore Rekindled is not affiliated with Smythe beyond the original idea and art style that it's aiming to mimic - she can't copyright an art style, the Greek myth inspirations, or the brushes that are used, and there's nothing she can do about people making AU comics.

If she theoretically wanted to put her foot down on Rekindled, she'd have to go after the entirety of the fanfic/fanart community 😂 She has next to no ground to go after any derivative or fan projects inspired by her work, not unless they directly try to impersonate her and/or make a profit with the Lore Olympus name/branding/etc. (hence why there isn't a Patreon for Rekindled). Even the direct edit accounts themselves don't try to pass themselves off as LO or Smythe, they always show the original panel and make it clear in their bio descriptions that the accounts themselves are for LO which is easily sourced as not belonging to them.

One could argue that it's generally bad taste on the grounds of it being rude to edit other people's work, and yeah, that's valid. It casts the presumption that there's something "wrong" with how an artist wants to express themselves and that the edit makes it "better". But, for starters, we all know why these edits exist because LO has gone down in quality and people are having their own fun time trying to restore that original vibe in tribute to Rachel's original version of LO; second, it would be a lot more heinous IMO if LO were still some small series being made by a nobody, but ... it isn't, it's a massive commercial product within its industry and fanwork/foework is par for the course with commercial products; and third, there still isn't any sort of legal ground for Rachel to stand on because those accounts still aren't pretending to be her or her work, if anything they may as well be advertising it.

Plus, a lot of those edit accounts are more like redraw accounts, so many of them may as well be DTIYS prompts rather than direct edits (that's not a bad thing, just a statement of fact) save for a few accounts that deliberately try to mimic the old LO style as much as possible when editing new panels. Those kinds of stylized redraws are legit just fanart.

For many of these accounts, a lot of it's still work they're doing themselves and they're not trying to pass off their edits as legitimate LO products. No one's ripping these panels and re-posting them and going "look what I drew today!" (ex. Love's Divinity did this and a lot of people rightfully called the creator out on it, thankfully it seems like they've learned and moved on from copying directly from LO and other webtoons) they're going "hey, so this is what the webcomic looks like now, and here's what it looks like in my style" or "hey, this is what the webcomic looks like now, but here's what it would possibly look like if it still looked like S1 LO". None of it's meant to be maliciously stealing or impersonation, the pettiest it can get is just people saying "Rachel, your art sucks" which may as well be the only reason she edited that into her bio in the first place.

Like, if this IS aimed at the edit and redraw accounts, she's basically only upset about the panel edits that call out her obviously declining art IMO. Especially considering she's retweeted edit stuff before, many of them being from the anti/ULO community which I don't think she ever even realized ? 😂 But regardless, she shares edit panels a lot so it makes that bio notice come across less as "don't trace or use my work" and more as "don't do edits that make me look bad!!" when she's already doing plenty of work on her own end to make herself look bad 😂

In my personal opinion beyond the legalese... yeah, her work really does suck nowadays. I get how awful working for Webtoons is, I get that Rachel might not even be into drawing LO anymore, I can empathize with her maybe not being able to put in the same amount of emotional investment or time that she was able to put into it back in S1, but every single edit account is pretty sincere in doing it simply because they want to express how they wish it could look if it hadn't dropped in quality.

Phew, that was a lot of words for a very simple question, but rest assured, I'm not really worried it's going to affect Rekindled. 90% of the panels are completely original compositions save for the few panels that are referencing older moments in S1 LO that I brought back for Rekindled's plot, and even those panels are still redrawn from the ground up and given different outcomes (ex. Persephone punching Hades in the face lmao). Probably won't be doing much of that from here on out but more so just because the plot's going to be shifting even further from original S1 LO; but it's def better safe than sorry on my part to just make that 90% into a 100%, I suppose.

As a last point, I don't blame the edit accounts who ARE stepping away from editing panels out of respect. While it might not be a technically legal issue, I can still respect those who still want to respect Rachel's requests and do better as creatives and individuals. Just because something isn't against the law doesn't mean it isn't a cruddy thing to do, and I say that fully as someone who cut their teeth on edit content. We have tons of other ways of expressing ourselves creatively in this fandom than directly editing old panels.

The DTIYS stuff though, I don't think that should be off limits. It's fanart and that's completely fair game IMO especially for someone like Rachel who's creating a commercial piece of work. It comes with the territory. Welcome to being a pro.

#lore olympus critical #lo critical #antiloreolympus #anti lore olympus #ama #ask me anything #anon ama #anon ask me anything

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