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mamayura · 6 months

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Rewatching Kwamis choice is still wild

Adrien is doing all the work in the Adrinette development, all Marinette is asked to do is raise her hand at perfectly phrased yes-no questions that already include everything important she can't say. So by all means, she's just not asked to say it at all.

Why are Marinette stans even okay with this? I feel offended FOR HER that the narrative portrays her as needing to have Adrien putting in maximum effort into desperately cuddling her to get even just crumbs of her love, bc apparently Marinette herself could never overcome this without a perfect prince charming mind-reader doing all the work for her to give her the poor little princess treatment for the next half of the season.

Not to mention that this is a pretty icky pay-off for 4 seasons of Marinette making being friends with your crush out to be the worst thing possible, borderlining emotional torment (special shout out to Adrien in Protection basically confirming THAT jfc)

The narrative now agrees with her. In Elation, the episode before this, Chat Noir admits to Ladybug that he isn't romantically in love with her anymore or simply wants to move on now, asking her if she's okay with him loving her as a friend, she says okay

And next episode both leave.

Marinette already wants to leave before Plagg initiates the plan so Adrien can find love and happiness bc already at the end of Elation Marinette categorized Chat loving her as a friend now as him not wanting her at all anymore.

Which I guess wasn't completely wrong bc he left too after this, but at least Adrien tried solving it normally first by being Marinette's FRIEND and only when PLAGG came to him, after Marinette rejected him, he agreed to leave so he can tell her he was Chat Noir and clear up what happened. He immediately took initiative to still pursued her civilian identity/ the hurt girl he loves to make him leaving worth it

Tho, Marinette apparently was already ready to leave Chat behind at the beginning of the episode and only her depressive phase of feeling like she's not worthy of love made her stay with him as Ladybug so his presence can remind her over and over again that he doesn't love her romantically anymore so she can hurt herself emotionally with that knowledge while looking at him?? I guess ??

Why is being friends THIS demonized??

And Tikki had to take the miraculous away from Marinette to get anything rolling, and pretend like the two of them aren't obviously gonna see each other again bc Marinette still is the guardian of the Miracle Box, Su-Han knowing her and Alya still in the know, Rena Rouge and her co-guardian?

What was the narrative's issue here pretending like Marinette made some drastic step here away from everything? Adrien was the one who actually did that.

He and Plagg seriously did all the work, huh? wth :/

For all it is, Alya and Marinette could have just asked Kitty Noire next time if Plagg can now - that Adrien stopped being his holder - quickly come to Marinette and Tikki going to him so the Kwamis can lead them together so they can be friends as civilians.

It's wild that the episode and the fandom are pretending like Adrien horribly abandoned Ladybug for no reason, but, I mean, Plagg made it plain obviously that this plan is going down FOR ADRIEN'S SAKE to find happiness and love by revealing his former secret identitiy to Marinette. Plagg decided to leave, and made Tikki do the same with Marinette, so Adrien can he happy and by extension Marinette.

Meanwhile Marinette, even after having given up her Miraculous, still had all the resources to make it possible that her and Chat Noir can be friends now, but the narrative didn't acknowledge that bc it would require that Marinette actually uses all the resources she has to be the one for once who reaches out and communicates in Ladynoir to keep their bond alive if they, but especially SHE (the one with the resources), wanted it.

But the show can't have that bc apparently being friendzoned is the worst thing on earth, and reaching out and communicating is only Adrien's primary job now in either dynamic

And don't twist my words. I'm saying all this bc I want better for Marinette’s character.

I mean, good gosh, the narrative didn't even acknowledge that Marinette could have finally told her parents about her having been Ladybug to get unconditional and endless support and comfort right on spot.

Not doing that is understandable from ADRIEN'S side, but while Tom and Sabine aren't perfect parents one would think that's one of the first things Marinette would finally have done after she wanted to tell Adrien so badly bc "no one can understand what she's going through"

But no, the episode pretends like that option never even existed and Adrien (and Alya once she's back as Scarabella) is all Marinette got, even when Adrien then leaves after the akuma fight.

Gurl. Go downstairs, tell your parents and eat their freshly-baked goods they're lovingly making for you while you lay crying in their arms, hugging them and telling them what you went through.

You HAD that option on a silver plate. An option Adrien could only dream of bc even if Gabriel weren't Monarch Adrien would still be in serious trouble for having been Chat Noir. Why are we pretending like she has no one and no resources to get help? By all means, that's Adrien and he's doing better - despite NO RESOURCES - than Marinette who has everything bc for some reason Marinette cannot develop much further than this for the rest of season 5 bc Adrien must give her the princess treatment for the love square to work.

Man, I just want better for her. She really got screwed over when it comes to personal development in s5.

Also: RIP Ladynoir

#ml spoilers #ml season 5 #miraculous #ml rant #Kwamis choice #ml critical

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mamayura · 6 months

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YES, NEXT CHAPTER LET'S GOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

Chat Noir didn't know what to do. He didn't know what to say either. Part of him was still so desperate to turn tail and run, still desperate to hide. He wanted to curl up in a hole and just be left there. The unease and the fear that scraped through every fibre of his being refused to let up. So much so, that he couldn't even bring himself to look at Marinette directly.

But as much as he wanted to flee, he remained where he was. Ladybug had made him promise her he would stay put. And he was tired of breaking promises. That, and he wasn't sure if he could move, even if he tried.

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mamayura · 7 months

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"So you're the holder of Ladybug miraculous in this universe? How cute.."

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mamayura · 8 months

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I would love to see a scene where Rabbit Noir and Ladybug meet their future daughter Emma!🐞🐾🐰💕

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mamayura · 9 months

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Cats!

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mamayura · 9 months

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bugnoire brainworms!!

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mamayura · 9 months

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I just need to be direct about some things for Ladybugs side of Ladynoir in s5 now for a sec.

It's just.. somebody please tell me how I am supposed to believe that Marinette actually learned something from the season 4 Ladynoir conflict or won't continue to just fall further back on her words when Revelation showed that Ladybug will lie and use Chat Noir as bait and a tool again to continue her s4 treatment of him and how he was nothing but the scapegoat/pet/punching bag for her and Alya for the entire season? Something she already in s4 barely felt appropriately bad about until the end of Strike Back had her pull a 180

Marinette literally proofed in Revelation that she has in fact either not learning anything or doesn't think Chat Noir deserves a better treatment, season 5 just didn't give her the chance to pull this more often because there were no other heros. What am I supposed to expect from her in season 6 now taht the entire team is back?

How am I supposed to think that Ladybug is capable of having a partnership with Chat Noir were both of them are allowed to make mistakes without getting punished for it when Derision is literally the episode about how her being bullied and publicly humiliated is the core of her trauma and yet the same episode has her go back and put Chat Noir at the risk of the very same thing by her own hands again because of the lucky charm plan, and as per usual HE apologizes for having been emotional and yet she never takes accountability for how she then proceeded to use him?

So people in season 4 were right? Ladybug is not capable of behaving normal in this partnership, the moment Chat Noir makes a mistakes or has a bad day or is affected by a power she will continue using him then however she pleases. Is she just not capable of coming up with other plans? Can Chat Noir really not exist in this partnership without being at the constant risk of being turned into a tool and scapegoat while being humiliated in their dynamic the moment he does something wrong? Is the only way of preventing that Chat himself not making mistakes again because Ladybug can't be asked to not do this shit to her partner?

Or can Adrien for once NOT be the only one to apologize in situations like that? I wouldn't be as harsh on what she did in Derision if Psycomedian in season 4 didn't exist where it was already established that Ladybug takes it for granted what Chat Noir puts up with for and from her and that got maxed out for all of season 4. And yet in season 5 Derision we are somehow not one step further? Can she not just say "Hey, about the toilet thing. Sorry that I went after you there, it was my first instinct because the power was to act out the meanest humor. Sorry for having used you like that again though, I will try to do better"

In the context of what Marinette's traumatic backstory is that plan of hers showed 0 self-reflection and once again puts all pressure on Chat Noir to not make a mistake around her or else she will apparently go back to her old ways without feeling bad about it. If Ladybug never clarifies anything then the episode just had her indirectly tell him that this is still what he has to expect from her when he has a bad day or whatever. Just like with Ladybugs violence in s4 she was never asked to take an ounch of accountability for and teached children bad lessons on how to treat friends several times because she's a girl and can get away with it, Derision has her indirectly reinforce that Chat's responsible for her treatment of him. He needs to do better to prevent her from pulling stuff like that because she's "justified" in whatever she does to him anyway as s4 teached us.

Or the fact in Migration neither Marinette nor Adrien know for sure if their partner knows that Luka knew their identity and Monarch picked up on that, and yet only for Adrien one can make a legit argument for why he didn't bring it up and that's the fact that Ladybug and Luka left him for so long all alone in the akuma battle that he would rightfully assume that this is were Ladybug and Luka talked about everything. Marinette on the other hand has no excuse for why she is keeping the fact that Monarch knows that Luka is aware of both their identities a secret from Chat Noir. It's yet another impossibly irresponsible secret directly concerning Chat's life and possibly the safety of all his civilian loved ones she just keeps from him and can't be criticized for because it's Marinette.

So she learned nothing from season 4 and stuff like Ephemeral?

Or even just little moments like Marinette proudly confirming to Alya behind Chat's back that she had him wear the insult paper in his bell for an entire season and them laughing, when it should be a no brainer that Chat didn't agree to wear it so she can tell it others behind his back for him to be laughed at. He trusted her that nothing bad would come out of it and yet that's what she did the moment Alya was there. That is such an awful thing to do. You don't do that to friends. Thats what I expect from Chloé, not Ladybug in Ladynoir.

Or in Réunion when Jeanne was talking down on Chat Noir because she is projecting her own Black Cat issues on Chat by insulting a 14 year old boy for not looking like a full grown man and Marinette.. agrees. One episode prior Marinette was gushing towards Alya about Chat's looks, muscles and whatever but the moment Marinette is insecure in front of an adult Ladybug who isn't all nice to her she directly agrees with insults unfairly directed at Chat Noir through backhanded compliments about "but he's very loyal" because at least it isn't her? And right in front of Chat too?

What's even worse is that Adrien couldn't see or hear Jeanne so from his perspective he literally just witnessed Ladybug agreeing with an insult about him spoken by a past Ladybug while he can't at all defend himself. Chat has no way to tell if the past Ladybug isn't constantly insulting him because apparently his Ladybug won't even disagree or sees any problem with that, and neither does he know if that already went on prior to meeting him.

It's moments like that for which I'm genuinely glad that he rejected her next episode in Elation. Why would he want to still date Ladybug when shes agreeing with insults being directed at him? Adrien was noticeably more insecure from then on in Réunion because he just doesn't know how hard he's being trash-talked and Ladybug just agreed :/

And then of course there is Kwamis choice right after Elation which.. dude, from Adrien's perspective he rejected Ladybug ONCE and then she fucking LEFT. Instantly. Adrien learned that episode that Ladybug herself is apparently a hypocrite and can't take a no either. Their entire partnership dynamic demands of him to be her yes-man and never ask for anything, never saying "no" and if he does than she stands under no obligation to respect it like when she still just uses her guardian privileges to overwrite him having renounced his Miraculous.

And then she for the first time actually had to respect Chat telling her "No" about something and she left. The ending of Hack-San is meaningless now because of Kwamis choice!

Season 5? What am I supposed to do with stuff like that for Ladynoir? Did Marinette learn something in the Ladynoir conflict of season 4 or only partly and I have to expect her regressing again and going back on her words because she was never properly called out on anything? If calling her out is the only way Marinette can learn then why is no one asking BETTER of her in important stuff like this regarding Ladynoir?

Did Marinette learn something or nah? Or will you at least have Alya want better for Chat Noir when Marinette herself already can't do it?

#ml season 5 #ml season 4 #ml ladynoir critical #ml rant #this isnt salt I'm listing stuff she did #im just frustrated at stuff like this #ml spoilers #miraculous #ml

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mamayura · 10 months

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When was the last time I drew Ladynoir and Marichat?….Too long. I miss theeeem. Anyway, doodles before bed.

PLEASE DO NOT REPOST.

COMMISSIONS ARE OPEN

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mamayura · 10 months

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Adrien: “Close your eyes and sleep”

Mari: “But I like you!”

#ml fanart #adrienette #This is so sweet!

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mamayura · 11 months

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..I judge people who think Chloe being disowned by her shitty useless father and given to her abusive mother as a GOOD THING??

Yall weird as shit.

Andre doesn't get to just say "haha I'm free! I'll try better with this new Chloe look alike!" No fuck you!! You're a grown ass man who made your daughter into the spoiled asshole she is and never grew a spine at all against your wife!! You don't get to wipe your hands clean and start over!!

Stop letting shitty parents get away with shitty things !!!

This is a pattern that makes no sense!! Why punish the children more than the literally adults failing the children?? What kind of fucking lesson is that??

Absolute MESS.

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mamayura · 1 year

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The importance of Marinette complimenting Mister Bug's eyes in "Passion", and regarding Marinette's love for Chat Noir from 5x07 to 5x12

I honestly have to say I genuinely, truly dislike how this moment is perceived as "Lady Noire hilariously catcalling Mister Bug because Marinette is so insanely thirsty for him" by the majority of the Fandom. That is the furthest thing from what I see in Marinette’s intentions here.

I personally view this as Marinette realizing on the rooftop that this is now only the SECOND time that she's able to possibly see what Chat Noir's actual eyes look like and therefore she took the chance to comment on that, which merely came out as too directly and that made it awkward.

The following is not really what the rest of the post will be about underneath "Read more", but I just need to talk about this detail and it's implications because it's driving me crazy. It is part of the main points and the overal post's theme of Marinette's love though and will lead right into it while providing more context for it, so don't worry. Also, head-up, I had to get creative here and there to work around the 30 images limitation. I did not think that would get so complicated at times lol So, long post ahead x3

Unfortunately, the way this moment is shot in the end leaves out a crucial aspect of it and I don't understand WHY they did that:

When you watch this moment in normal speed and without being able to pause it then it looks like Adrien is reacting so uncomfortably/ irritated either only because Lady Noire is not moving and keeps looking at him OR because she IS doing something (negatively) he's uncomfortable with/ irritated by and we merely don't get to see it.

Also Adrien's head being placed in the upper right corner when he's alone on screen basically forces you to look at him next when the camera pans out, which means you are absolutely gonna miss where Lady Noire was before she quickly stands up.

And that's the thing:

THIS is what Adrien was reacting to. Instead of standing up to go into battle with him Lady Noire dreamily leaned forwards a solid bit to look at him more. But most importantly, especially regarding the "catcalling" line, Marinette is leaning forwards to see Mister Bug's FACE. His REAL eyes. You know, the part of his appearance she just complimented him for.

Looking into someone's eyes is the LEAST objectifying thing you could possibly do. In fact, other pieces of media deliberately utilize this method in scenes where a woman purposefully sexualizes herself and flirts with a man (for one reason or another, y'all know the trope) so the show/movie etc can showcase that the man is "not like the other men" and doesn't see her merely for her physical beauty by having him only look into her eyes.

It is BAFFLING to me that the show went out of its way to HIDE the actual reason for why Adrien is reacting like he does because by never letting us see that Marinette only leaned forwards because she wanted to she Chat Noir's real eyes and then got distracted by them and him, it really does Marinette no favor at all.

What she did in this moment was incredibly cute and wholesome and it's a shame the episode didn't used the wide shot earlier so the audience can properly put into perspective that, while Adrien's discomfort/irritation is valid because he is not at all used to Ladybug behaving like this towards him and doesn't know what to make of it or how to read it, WE at the very least would immediately know that Marinette did NOT just do something bad here that truly deserved such a reaction. But the way the episode basically hides that Marinette moved at all and HOW is giving room for understandable bad readings which in turn can be twisted into sexist double standards in both directions.

And I don't like that. I don't like it at all.

Because when you look at the overall situation and how Marinette now sees Chat Noir and so many things about him by the time of season 5, there are so MANY reasons for why her pointing out his eyes not only is incredibly wholesome, it also makes perfect sense WHY it's his eyes she points out and WHY this little compliment is actually very VERY meaningful in the wider context of how Marinette's love for Chat Noir develops in season 5:

With one exception, she has up until now only ever seen her partner as Chat Noir or in a miraculous unification that included the Black Cat miraculous, so he was never without the Green Cat eyes she knows him with. Never except for the one time in "Reflectdoll" where she didn't took notice of it and then it didn't happen again.

That one time she let go by without appreciating it because she probably didn't even pick up that there was something special she missed because for all it is nothing too much changed. Adrien still has green eyes and his regular blond Chat hair as Mister Bug.

But that is actually the point, in that her point of view changed.

By the time "Passion" comes around in season 5 Marinette let's herself embrace her feelings for Chat Noir and REALLY regrets having pushed him so far away until the end of s4, and yet she still has not a single clue if even any of the physical features she normally associates him with truly reflect his civilian apparence. She knows NOTHING.

Which while it absolutely does NOT in any way excuse her almost turning into his enemy in "Elation" to demask him as akuma bc he didn't wanted to be with her as Marinette anymore or her being.. VERY hypocritically upset about him "keeping secrets":

It does in my opinion at least give a very understandable reason for why Marinette spiraled down so hard as she did until it all escalated in "Elation" and blew up; and why she then snapped back to put full effort into platonic love with Chat Noir in "Perfection":

Her ending up in a massive emotional extreme in "Elation" where by the time the date happens she.. well, basically completely stops acting in anyway in Chat's interest too so he isn't hurt or forced into something he doesn't want (her knowing he has no idea that she's Ladybug), her then giving up her earrings in "Kwamis Choice" and from then on not acting on her previous crush on him anymore, does come across as rough and kinda as her merely rebounding on him, but frankly, no, it is NOT at all "proof" that Marinette's love for her partner is not and was never genuine.

in "Passion" her love for him really is still pure but by "Elation" Marinette had to accept that 1) Chat Noir doesn't want to love her anymore, and 2) she isn't what he needs. He needs a (romantic) partner who is with him as civilian because it MATTERS absolutely who is underneath the mask MARINETTE:

The way the show handles Marinette's crush on Chat Noir in how "Elation" turns out in near the end through the emotional extremes, and all of that then leading into "Kwamis Choice" is.. we all know that it wasn't good for both parties, so I'll leave it at that.

"Elation" leads into one serious low for Marinette and in it comes Adrien to help her, which from then onwards has Marinette find the love and happiness she was really looking for. But the fact that Marinette then found her happiness and love with "someone else" and not Chat doesn't mean that her feelings for him were never real and that she in all of this never truly hoped for him to find his love and happiness too:

And that is were we go on from "Perfection" onwards. Marinette's love isn't meaningless rebounding and we didn't get here for no reason. Marinette's emotional extreme that escalated so hard was neither irrational selfishness nor was it justified blamelessness.

It was rooted in her genuine feelings for her partner, her fear of hurting him further, loosing him and her wanting the both of them to get closer, be bigger parts of each others lives after everything that happened in s4 and just be happy.

You know, the happiness that Adrien as Chat explicitly named towards Ladybug in "Passion" when they exchanged their miraculous' and he very openly asked her why they cant make a wish themselves to finally put the fighting behind them. And Marinette in turn treated her partner's feelings and ask for help with all the seriousness and care he deserved.

Marinette too wanted this for the BOTH OF THEM. And what set this off so badly by this point no doubt was her trauma copying mechanism of having to know everything about the person she loves to keep herself save, cause that clashes BADLY and in several ways with her realizing for good that she knows very little about Chate for sure. Not even how he actually looks like.

As if Marinette by now doesn't know exactly that a miraculous transformation can changed most of a person's appearance. She knows who every Miraculous holder in her team is and where this already occurs - most importantly Alya as Rena Furtive-

but of course we also have the obvious cases of Hawkmoth, Mayura and now Argos too where it's to be expected that they massively changed their appearance to hide their identities.

Plus, Marinette's own eyes and even CatWalker's that one time are the same as Chat Noir's (which are by default actually Plagg's eyes) and Zoe having the Tiger eyes (for some reason?) as Kitty Noire really would put it into perspective for Marinette that she actually doesn't know anything about her partner's appearance for sure.

Cause apparently the Black Cat miraculous automatically gives you Plagg's green cat eyes or let's you take on Roaar's Tiger eyes if you wanna spice it up.

And let's add the fact that Chat Noir has blond hair, CatWalker's were green and now Marinette saw that Kitty Noire had blonde hair with green highlights; while Kitty and herself as Lady Noire also have a leather outfit and CatWalker shared Chat Noir's chivalry tendencies and turned them up to an eleven & every single Black Cat miraculous holder (including Marinette herself now) has depicted the same flirty and or romantic tendencies for the Ladybug miraculous holder.

Man, at this point I would not at all doubt it if Marinette were to genuinely question if the things she always thought she knew about Chat Noir are actually truly like him as civilian at all. She has no real reverence to ANYTHING. The only Black Cat miraculous holder Marinette knows the identity of is herself but even she is very well aware that she is acting even more "unhinged" as she already did.

So yeah, tell me what is there NOT to appreciate for Marinette in "Passion" about seeing Mister Bug again?

In "Reflectdoll" she most likely didn't even notice that she just received confirmations about a few things she already assumed about Chat's appearance and therefore took it there for granted. But now in s5 it turned into a case of "Phew, I DO actually know the most BASIC things about Chat Noir. I'm so GLAD!"

The Ladybug miraculous on itself up til now (Monarque Bug doesn't count that's a unification) has always keep the holders normal eye color and even if Alya as Scarabella changed her hair style, her hair color stayed the same. If anything it merely got a bit more vibrant.

Meaning that Mister Bug IS the only possible reference Marinette has to draw some conclusions on how Chat would actually look like as civilian. And secret identitiy be damned, at this point I would want to have at least SOME clarity too.

Which btw, yes, this means Alya's statement in "Elation" was correct:

Just because Marinette says otherwise doesn't it mean that her behavoir also reflects that all the time, and when it does, it doesn't mean that Marinette is morally anywhere close to RIGHT.

Anyway. She may still not know for sure if Mister Bug's appearance can truly clue her in on how Chat looks like as a civilian but at least through seeing Mister Bug again Marinette had the opportunity to put things into new perspective and narrow down the chances.

Marinette now knows for example that even if Chat Noir's hair doesn't exactly look like this civilian hair style-wise, his blond hair does have to be/ most likely is an accurate reflection of his real hair.

Plus, another VERY nice detail in my opinion: Marinette may know through especially Alya as Scarabella (but also through alot of other miraculous transformations) that the hair styles can differ from their civilian counterpart, but the fact that the boy behind the mask chose the same hair style as he always wears as Chat Noir does tell Marinette that the hair she associates him with is the hair style he personally prefers the most because he always comes back to it over and over again without fail.

That IS information about him (as it also provides information for us the viewers that unlike Félix for example, Adrien genuinely LIKES to have his civilian hair more messy and would probably prefer to go even a bit further but knows better and remains in the middle about it) and in my opinion, it's very wholesome that Marinette now got a confirmation that she knows how her partner prefers to do his hair. Idk, I find that cute <3

And of course the aspect Marinette herself puts the most emphasis on because, duh, eyes are the doors to a person's soul:

I don't know about you, but I personally cannot see any thirsty "catcalling" intentions in Lady Noirs compliment. Even if she voiced it too bluntly and it therefore got a bit awkward.

Wouldn't YOU be happy to finally get as close to a non-verbal and non-reveal confirmation as possible that you indeed were always right about what you assumed your dear friend's (for whom you also have feelings for) EYES look like?

Isn't it rather SAD that this is something Marinette felt the need to point out and compliment him for, one year into their partnership?

Cause can you imagine how much it would have hit Marinette in the face if suddenly Mister Bug showed up the second time and out of nowhere he had brown eyes? Sure, it probably would have stung too if he suddenly had brown hair, but especially with a miraculous transformation that is a secondary priority.

Why WOULDN'T Marinette be gleaming and starring happily while commenting how the red outfit makes his eyes stand out? Thats literally the truth! The Mister Bug suit is the only one she has ever seen her partner wear that make his eyes stand out FOR HER. Chat Noir's regular transformation magic Cat eyes are just that for her, the regular Transformation Cat eyes she associates with him. Adrien's real eyes are the RARITY here.

And seemingly, Marinette realized this by the time they reached the rooftop and this second chance to make up for her obliviousness in "Reflectdoll" very clearly meant alot to her because if there is one thing I learned about Marinette's body language it's that if she can't or has trouble looking a person (especially Chat Noir and Adrien) into their eyes she either feels bad about something or for what she is currently doing.

Marinette's eyes give her feelings away more often than not, even if she isn't ready to voice them out loud or face her mistake:

(I still find it remarkable how people are seemingly not picking up on how hard Marinette is projecting her guilt towards Chat Noir onto Kagami where most of it is badly missplaced and therefore caused the same problems as in the Ladynoir conflict [same with Luka in "Migration" but elaborating on that would implode this post that already starts lagging while writing and editing lol Kagami and "Perfection" are much more important imo]. So Marinette's/ Ladybug's dialogue that episode, especially around Chat Noir, more often than not very clearly doubles to appliy to both Kagami AND Chat. How else was especially the way Ladybug just pours her heart out about and TOWARDS Kagami/ Kagami's akuma form - who can't hear her ANYWAY - supposed to check out secret identity wise if the episode wasn't written in a way where Adrien understands that Ladybug is opening up about her s4 guilt towards him after they both left in "Kwamis Choice"? Like, the episode and Marinette's behavior, words and fears around Kagami don't make alot of sense in the intensity Marinette is displaying if you don't apply Ladynoir to it:

Sure, there is the obvious Chloè influence here, but Marinette's fear of her dear - but very blunt - friend she treated badly in the past calling her out and mocking her for not being able to face her love for Adrien and TALK when she basically got it served to her on a silver platter? [notice how without a pronoun you don't even know for sure if I just talked about Kagami or Chat. Hint: it's both.] And Marinette feeling extremely guilty about what Kagami had to put up with at the ugly end of her and Adrien’s love after Marinette treated her not exactly kindly until "Ikari Gozen" so she doesn't want to talk to Kagami at all until Marinette figures everything out?

Yeah, nah, this is clear-cut Marinette projecting her insecurities regarding Chat Noir onto Kagami. Kagami’s bluntness is what she fears from her and also from Chat - because she's doing the same hurtful communication inablility again with Adrien (or the boy she told Chat about in season 2, who she is in love with. Hence why the rebounding is hurtful bc Adrien knows that Ladybug loves someone else but is BAD at facing her feelings, so he's aware that she redirected her love to HIM as Chat because that's easier. Sorry, but that's what happened.) when it's very important, but she doesn't want Chat to know that [he knows though lol]- and combined with the similarities between Kagami and Chat Noir for Marinette in their history with her regarding treatment, love life [and an abusive/ bad home, which Marinette absolutely picked up on by now regarding Chat Noir, which is yet another thing “Passion” silently showcased aplenty, but that’s a topic for another post] yeah, Kagami ended up being the prime ‘target’ of having Marinette project all her CN insecurities on, which then escalated the situation in the Kagaminette friendship in a similar way Ladynoir did in s4.

That's straight up almost the entire episode.

You can't just say "That's Marinette's trauma talking" about everything and leave it at that. Trauma isn't irrational. If a traumatized person "overreacts" to something and it genuinely doesn't fit well at all to the situation at hand [like with Kagami] than that's because your emotional trauma is hooking itself onto a dynamic/ person similar enough as an outlet to deal with said emotions when you can't or don't want to channel your emotions at the person it is rooted in [for good or bad reasons]. Trauma on it's own is NEVER irrational and when it comes across that way that means the other person either IS doing something bad to you [intentionally or not] which merely doesnt look like that to other people from the outside, or your own trauma is misdireting itself to something/ someone else that shows a similar pattern that make your alarm bells go off)

So if Marinette struggling to look someone she hold dear in the eyes means she has hidden guilt, then the opposite applies for when she looks them (but particularly Chat Noir after season 4) deep into their eyes and holds the eye contact:

The key to Marinette's guilt and genuineness concerning vunerable topics is hidden in her eyes, if she dares to look and if yes, then how deeply, how long and how open to said vunerablity is she? Cause Marinette can, will and absolutely HAS dealt with emotionally important and vunerable topics while she herself didnt actually let it reach her own vunerable core and remained on defense.

So explain to me again what exactly was shallow and inconcidered catcalling about this moment:

Yeah, that's what I thought.

---

Oh. And do me a favor, will you?

Everything I just said, that it is understandable for Marinette to feel desperate at this point to know.. well, ANYTHING about Chat Noir as civilian because she loves him so much and he means so much to her - and especially her who has sworn in the past to know absolutely EVERYTHING about the person she loves to feel save falling in love - and at this point so many informations around them clash with each other that it would take away any certainty Marinette has about what she always thought she knew and liked about Chat Noir?

All of that and so much more I mentioned? Yeah, let's stop cherry-picking through double standards for a second and apply all of that good-will and understanding for Marinette literally even going so far and being willing to turn into Chat's ENEMY to demask him, get to know him and get his love and apply just HALF of that to Adrien.

And I'm not asking you to do that for no reason. Cause if you do that then

Voilà:

You also get your actual reason for why Marinette said this at the end of "Passion".

Cause this isn't just Marinette romanticizing Chat Noir seemingly being able to flawlessly do for her now what she herself has unsuccessfully tried putting her self through with Adrien two times already - entirely stop acting like she loves him to the point where Adrien or anyone else wouldnt pick up on any absolutely still existing feeling in her anymore. All so she isnt distracted or tempted anymore to do any kind of bad choices for romantical or emotional reasons -,

Nope

Cause this questionable moment at the end of "Passion" IS Marinette massively appreciating how strong her partner is. Even if she isn't properly there yet morally-wise.

Marinette's crush on Chat Noir is on full display from episode 6 til 9 and in these 4 episodes she is literally going further and spiraling down harder than Adrien ever did for Ladybug in 4 seasons. This questionable moment is later payed off by THIS in "Perfection":

At the end of "Passion" that was Marinette gushing over how Chat Noir is emotionally strong enough to not only pull something off she herself knows she could never do - fully stop acting like she love Adrien for the greater good - it's also her gushing over him BECAUSE she knows exactly that by the end of season 4 Marinette as Ladybug pretty much reduced the Ladynoir partnership and friendship down to "Chat Noir I want you around but don't ask anything of me, don't expect me to tell you anything or that you have any voice or status in my team besides being my favorite minion and MY emotional support."

Cool that YOU don't agree that that's bad, but Marinette herself is literally gushing and squealing in "Passion" while being in hard-core denial that her partner has actually already moved on from her (as she said he has to do) because she doesn't want to face the reality that it wasn't only bad, it was BAD and now Chat is trying to protect his heart while still wanting to be with her as friends but she was making that..really difficult for him:

It was a necessary development from episode 6 til 9 that Adrien as Chat Noir learned to assert himself against Marinette / Ladybug and reject her too and actually have it stick even if she is sad, because Marinette herself is indeed aware now how MUCH she asked of her partner to put up with, go through for her and to what little amount of certainty about anything around them and her - whom he loves/loved dearly and with all his heart - he had to settle and adjust to with no choice in the matter bc she didn't let him have any choices

(I swear, if you make all of the season 4 Ladynoir conflict out to be "just" about Adrien's LOVE for Ladybug and completely ignore how much her friendship and companionship means to Adrien I will break into your house at night time and eat your broomstick right in front of you while keeping eye contact. And I promise you, we are both not gonna get out of that one without receiving psychological damage)

Minimize and disregard it however you want. MARINETTE is at least emotionally fully aware of what she did and knows she - who has/ had to know everything about her crush and control as much as possible with barely any compromises - could not have gone through what she asked of Chat Noir while also leaving him all isolated. Which, again, is something she knows she couldn't do because she literally brought Alya/ Rena in fully on his expense while keeping it a secret (and 14 other team mates, bc that was oh so vitally necessary).

The difference between the end moment of "Passion" and the beginning of "Perfection" is that in the later Marinette is past her denial that her asking so much of him she couldn't go through herself actually caused him pain and that is costed him so much emotionally that it did leave him wanting to protect his heart from Ladybug romance-wise and look for his own happiness and love somewhere else for his own sake.

And for the record since I mentioned it earlier: Yes, Adrien noticed the entire time that Ladybug flirted with him ever since "Determination", how is this still a hot take? The development hardly makes any sense if he was just too oblivious to breath. Besides, the entire time Ladybug making a move on Chat Noir always resulted in him running and pulling away from her and Adrien making himself take the next steps in facing his love for Marinette and persue her. No, that wasn't a mere coincidence for like 7 episodes in a row. Gosh...

All of this is literally pay-off for season 4. Marinette's love for Chat Noir coming to light and compensating for her regrets for their partnership, friendship and especially romance-wise; him rejecting her too and persuing civilian Marinette as Adrien and Adrinette finding a healthy love while Ladynoir gets comfortable around each other again.

What have y'all been watching?

#ml spoilers #ml analysis #marinette dupain cheng #ladybug #ml season 5 #adrien agreste #miraculous ladybug #chat noir #Mister Bug #Lady Noire #Ladynoir #Misternoire #ml passion #ml elation #ml perfection

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