#''Oh but Quinn's in S3 more-'' YOU DON'T FUCKING GET IT. to these people it's only just 'The Avocato and Gary show'

[tuiyla]

speaking of Quinn and religion, one thing that's always baffled me is that I do think S1 wants to set up the black comedy of the "Queen of the Chastity Ball" getting knocked up, and it's supposed to be a whole commentary on celibacy, religious hypocrisy, etc. But I've never fully understood why they didn't truly lean into that? Because what the rest of Quinn's arc through S3 shows us is that honestly she's NOT a hypocrite about this. She believed in waiting. She was sincere in her faith. Her big slip-up was super dubious and a one time thing. For how much we've been told we were meant to hate Quinn in S1, I wonder why RIB didn't have her sleeping with the entire football team except Finn, having her play the nice girl around her parents then being knowingly cynical about using her religion as a disguise. It would still even work to contrast her with Santana, one being unapologetically sexual, the other hanging onto her pristine rep while doing the exact same things privately. It would've been such an easy way to make sure the audience sees her as the villain and tbh, might have better fit the dark humor of S1. That they didn't go that path is more proof to me that RM was ALWAYS writing Quinn as an empathetic character, even if he wasn't aware of it.

Alright alright, not gonna put off answering this because it's an amazing topic I wanna keep discussing or as long as y'all have thoughts.

Completely agree, they never lean into it. Not nearly as much as this ostensibly satire show should have. I often think about that, the deliberate irony of framing Quinn as ultra-religious and having her be the president of a damn Celibacy Club just to have her get knocked up. After having sex once, too. A better show would have a) leaned in and b) examined how society treats those who cross the madonna-whore threshold. Even in terms of the cheerleading stereotypes that the Unholy Trinity all check, it's ultimately Quinn who gets portrayed as a whore because she's the one with "evidence" that she's had sex. Brittana are much, much more promiscuous, yeah, but there's something about teen pregnancy as the ultimate symbol of sexual transgression. But, like you say, Quinn wasn't actually a hypocrite about all this.

I think she was also scarred from the pregnancy emotionally, understandably, but the only times she uses her sexuality after this in high school are when she's clearly unhinged. I.e. trying to make another baby with Puck. She wants to take things slow with Sam, completely understands Joe's perspective, and I for one seriously doubt Fuinn ever actually had sex. All that happened with Beth's conception was Puck taking advantage of her. But Glee season 1 just,,, does not get this. They so badly want Quinn to be this hypocritical bitch who cheats on her boyfriend and gets knocked up and isn't all that virginal after all. But even if we didn't see the actual scene, and oh boy do we, that narrative would still be dubious. Simply put, Quinn isn't the character Glee thinks they're writing.

I've said this so many times in so many ways but the bottom line remains the same. The writers did not know what kind of character they were writing. And there's a lot to be said about how RM reacted to that, goddammit I still haven't talked about that Rolling Stone interview, but at the end of the day we just have these facts within the show itself. And this is how I try to explain my frustrations with season 1 to people. Later seasons Quinn is a whole convo, too, but s1 always feels particularly insidious to me.

In terms of how you would have written it, yeah I think that would have worked better with what they were trying to do. There's still the contrast to Brittana so a chance for Quinn's redemption, but this villanizing would at least make more sense. She really would be a hypocrite and not just... a victim. But no, instead they wrote the story of a clear victim. I don't give a fuck if she happens to be rude to Finn and lie to him, yeah that's messed up but the dude is also actively cheating on her, so. Lest we feel too bad for him. It just sucks so much that RM was so, so unaware of the Quinn he was writing. Makes season 1 in particular incredibly frustrating to me, I can't believe there are people out there who consider this to be her best season. Why do you hate her so much?

#literally all they had to do if they wanted to do it this way #was lean into it #forget deconstruction that's too high for glee #just... lean in #but no quinn can't have even that #glee asks #quinn asks #i really really need a tag for this overall idea of #quinn's season 1 framing #not the catchiest tag but it will do #damn now to go back and tag #anon #quinn's framing #let's make a more general one like that

[space-finally]

Sometimes I still wish Chapter 18 "The Remembered" was just a bad dream I'll wake up from and Final Space will still be good.

#all bringing avocato back does #is retroactively make every oter episode Worse #S1 had infinite rewatchability #Now every episode he's in he just looks too damn punchable #and every episode he's NOT in just reminds me of how close we were to getting somewhere #Every time they mourn him it's for nothing #Even my first watchthrough he was the character I was least interested in #So when he died it was like ''ah well. at least now there'll be more time for quinn then. Right?'' Fucking. WRONG. #I knew. I fucking KNEW if he ever came back the fandom would be just unbearable. #I just didn't think it'd happen in season FUCKING 2 #BEFORE they did god damn ANYTHING with Quinn #Olan ''I've been on the internet a long time'' Rogers somehow didn't know this exact shit would happen if he brought him back?? #''Oh but Quinn's in S3 more-'' YOU DON'T FUCKING GET IT. to these people it's only just 'The Avocato and Gary show' #it doesn't matter if Quinn gets the whole season they're still just gonna treat her as a background character and it makes me fucking sick. #it SO didn't have to be this way #it's like he just doubled down and decided to handfeed the worst parts of the fanbase and even if S3 is great it won't matter

[quinnmorgendorffer]

okay but on the topic of glee fandom, since we seemed to be in different parts of that fandom (I was more on the femslash side) what was the craziest glee fandom drama that you personally witnessed

Part of me just wanted to say "Canniblaine" as a one word answer. But like the real answer is that it was never NOT crazy, honestly. But if I had to answer......well, let's talk about s2 in a nutshell.

(Don't worry, Canniblaine will be explained).

So, in summer of 2010, Puckurt (my beloved) was the most popular Kurt ship on ff.net, the fics then were all sweet and fun and normally had a lot of just pure Glee bonding. And Kurt fans were excited since Ryan Murphy promised repeatedly that Kurt would get a jock boyfriend and the two of them would be crowned Prom King and King. Eventually, Jane Lynch said in some interview that they casted a blond boy to play a kid named Sam who would be Kurt's love interest. I can't remember for sure if she was also the one who confirmed that there would be a love triangle with him, Kurt, and Quinn.

But RIB—Ryan, Ian, and Brad, the original and only screenwriters until s3—were NOT fans of their cast leaking spoilers. And eventually they say, no, that's not happening, Chord and Dianna have too much chemistry!!! We're not doing that plot anymore.

But they had been known to lie about certain plots happening when people guessed things correctly. When Idina Menzel was cast in s1, everyone was like "oh she's playing Rachel's mom". They denied it and, wouldn't you know it, she was cast to play Rachel's mom. So, keep that in mind.

Anyway, s2 premieres, we meet Sam. He seems fun, he's cute, there's even a gay joke in his very first scene where he gets actual lines. In the third episode, he gets injured at the football game, whatever.

Then the glorious episode 2x04 "Duets" happens. Truly a magnificent piece of television with some of the best performances. Santana and Mercedes doing "River Deep/Mountain High"? THE MOST FUCKING ICONIC THING. Kurt doing "Le Jazz Hot"? PERFECTION. Tina and Mike doing "Sing!" from A Chorus Line? THE BEST FIRST SONG MIKE COULD'VE BEEN GIVEN AND SO CUTE! Ending with Rachel and Kurt doing "Happy Days Are Here Again/Get Happy"? BEAUTIFUL. And, yeah, the Finchel verison of "Don't Go Breakin' My Heart" is cute and I guess Sam and Quinn doing "Lucky", while not making sense in terms of their relationship, was sweet.

But, despite what RIB said, it was clear that "Duets" was meant to introduce this love triangle with Kurt, Sam, and Quinn. You canNOT tell me that this was NOT both of them flirting with each other. They have amazing chemistry, I'm sorry, you can't deny that. So, that means either RIB were lying about changing the plot, or they waited to change the plot after 2x04.

Then 2x05 happens and that's "The Rocky Horror Glee Show" and we don't talk about that mess.

Anyway, I joined tumblr for Glee fandom literally the day before episode 2x06 came out. And season 2, episode 6 was..... "Never Been Kissed".

And that's when all hell broke loose.

Because NBK, as fans called it, introduced us to Blaine fucking Anderson played by, of course, Darren Criss.

The. Heaviest. Of Sighs.

I remember I was so excited for that, though. I was a Klainer before the ep even aired because I lOVED him. It was only a 3 episode guest arc, but I was sure they'd keep him, and I believed RIB was telling the truth and they were really done with the Kurt/Sam plot. And, evne looking back at it, while I say "Duets" is the last GOOD episode of Glee…NBK is honestly a good episode. And in 2011 especially, it was kind of a big fucking deal.

But the thing about NBK was that, not only did it propel Klaine into existence, it also created Kurtofsky with one kiss in the locker room.

So, now there were THREE ship possibilities arguing all over the place. Klaine shippers who rejoiced as Darren got offered more episodes as a guest actor (his original version of "Teenage Dream" was and I think still IS their best selling single on iTunes, so of COURSE they wanted him around); Kurtofsky shippers who wanted to see this scared, tortured jock redeemed (some of these shippers I know for sure were Puckurt fans, since, yeah, some dynamics were similar enough); and Kurt/Sam shippers who believed RIB was lying as they had in the past (the whole Idina thing).

Btw, there were already arguments over the fucking name for Kurt/Sam because fuckyeahgleesecrets wouldn't let people submit secrets that said "Kum" because it was "obscene"—but having "fuck" in their blog url was fine. I can't find it but once someone sent in a weirdly worded secret that supported Klaine, but then you looked at the first letter of every sentence and it said like "Kum At Me" or something, which was hilarious and got deleted.

Anyway, there was a SHIT TON of fighting. Klainers would say it was the "Klaine Train" but Kummers, as they called themselves, would call it the Klaintanic, like Titanic, saying the ship would fail, and they'd be safe on the Kum canoe. I'll admit I was on that canoe eventually because I hated Klaine by the time it became canon lmao. And I also believed, like other Kummers, that it would still be canon. After all, Dianna and Chord having "too much chemistry" was obviously a lie and they even broke up Sam and Quinn a few episodes into the second half of the season! Oh, and Kurtofsky became pirates based off the sea/ocean thing. I accidentally created the Puckurt centaur, it's a long story.

Anyway, so s2 was wild, with those three mentioned ships constantly fighting. Klainers saying they'd be canon (we all been knew, honestly), Kurtofsky shippers excited over the "Prom Queen" episode being spoiled by an extra, and Kummers holding onto the hope that it would still happen. They'd say something I can't remember like.... "Kum quick on our tittsana faithfully" or something, basically the idea that the endgames were Kum, Quick (Quinn/Puck), Brittana, Finchel, and they'd also often mention Tartie.

Also, did I mention that b3achd3ath aka peyton, who wrote that terrible YA novel everyone was roasting recently, was one of the loudest Kum canoe members?

Did I mention that gr@ceebooks was, like, the Kummers' leader? As in the person who eventually created The JohnLock Conspiracy???? Also led people into believing that another slash ship would become canon????!!!! THOSE WHO DON'T LEARN HISTORY ARE DOOMED TO FUCKING REPEAT IT!

The funny part was that Grace admitted it wasn't going to happen before the s2 finale that was like everyone's final hope that Kum could possibly happen.

The not so funny part is that it's clear, imo, that Chord WAS hired to be Kurt's love interest and they cut it off since Darren made them a shit ton of money with "Teenage Dream" and the whole Warblers thing (I will NOT get into that, this post is long enough), and they clearly didn't know what to do with him after that. Hence why they got rid of him after s2 only to bring him back after enough backlash I guess idk why, and that's also why there's a gifset of Chord kissing every single original Glee girl because they LITERALLY did nOT know what to do with him once they took away the Kurt love interest thing. And it's a shame because the idea of Quinn and Kurt both going after the same guy sounds like SUCH a good plot. Dianna and Chris were two of the strongest actors, and Chord is actually really underrated as an actor, too—good on him for being the leading male against Lindsay Lohan in her comeback movie, I want him to have success after all the shit he went through on Glee. I want all of them to have good things, really (well, not L3a but lmao ya know, and obviously not fucking Bl@ke Jenner, I'm so mad he's still in that Merrily We Roll Along movie adaptation), since they all went through so much.

Oh, and many Klainers started to ship "Criss Colfer" (Darren and Chris, obvi), and claimed PR was keeping them from being openly a couple. As if they WOULDN'T WANT that PR????? Of their same sex couple falling in love on set like wtf PR would want that more than anything??? And, in classic fashion, that led to people sending death threats and harrassing Darren's then gf, now wife, on social media and them stalking any guy who got close to Chris. Chris has been dating the same guy since like at least 2012 I think, and, as said, Darren got married, and some people are still convinced they aren't real relationships, like they're more insane than the fake baby 1ders.

Oh, and of course, Canniblaine.

The Glee Kink Meme—gkm—is a place I wish I never went to, honestly. Like, I was 18 when I first found it, and it fucked me UP. I have said it before and I'll say it again, I'm so concerned for anyone hwo found it under 18. Not in a clutching pearls way, because, yeah, read smut, idc, but this stuff was FUCKED UP. People MADE UP TWINS just to write tw*ncest. Like, literally, there was a trend of Kurt having a twin named Cameron, and eventually people would use like, Chris' character in Struck By Lightning (the movie he wrote and starred in), as one. I remember finding another kink meme for another fandom and like braced myself only to find like…normal fucking smut prompts. No beastality, no gore, no mpreg, no boypussies—and, no, it wasn't that Kurt was a transman, it was that he just had a vagina for some reason, sometimes he WOULD have a cock, too, though, so…Idk.

And I definitely didn't see vore prompts.

And definitely not FILLED vore prompts.

But before Klaine had even sung "Baby It's Cold Outside", someone filled a vore prompt. Wherein Blaine ate Kurt alive.

…This was supposed to be a show the whole family could watch…

There were various memes of the 2010 variety, the best being, of course, the one of him saying, directly from their first duet, "Gosh, you lips ARE delicious". People were daring others to read it.

I made it about a sentence in, realized I was eating a pizza hot pocket (say you were a freshman in college without saying you're a freshman in college, am i right?), and put it down, closed that tab, and I have yet to eat a hot pocket since.

I have to admit this gif still cracks me up though:

So.....long answer, but I hope an enjoyable read on some fandom drama on the Kurt/slash side of fandom.

#long post #thanks for asking this was so long i'm sorry a;slkdfj #glee fandom #kurt fandom #lol klaine #canniblaine #bite me in the ask #cardassiangoodreads

[angelhummel]

what would you do with the characters you don't like if you had power over glee? would you completely get rid of them, replace them or rewrite them to be something different?

I mean the mean part of me wants to say I would just scrap Brittany completely bc she didn't amount to anything in the end asjdfhlfsk BUT if I'm trying to be creative then no, that's too easy. With Brittany, there are two ways I could play it

1) She actually is quite clever but puts on the typical ditzy cheerleader act for funsies. To make sure Quinn knows she isn't a blonde rival threat lol. To mess with guys who think they can take advantage of her. Mostly for her own amusement, to see the looks on people's faces whenever she says something "dumb". But she drops the act midway thru s2 (when they quit the cheerios) and we get to see her for who she really is. Sharp and blunt at the same time, with a sardonic and dry wit that sometimes goes over people's heads. But she's dropped the dumbass act to be a lil smart ass

"How do you know my dim-witted inexperience isn't merely a subtle form of manipulation used to lower people's expectations thereby enhancing my ability to effectively maneuver within any given situation?"

2) She is kind of a ditz but she actually has the emotional intelligence that people claim she has. But the good "Go back in there and be there for Kurt", "family is a place where everyone loves you no matter what" kind, not the "you have to actually eat the chocolate bar or it will melt and look like you have poop in your hand". Basically Brittany talking about poop or toilets or anything in that same vein is strictly forbidden. She's not great in school, makes C's and D's in her main classes. But has creative electives like art, photography, creative writing, etc and does amazingly in those classes. She has her own unique way of looking at things and offers her own unique wisdom to help put things in perspective from time to time

Either way, she is never a complete fucking bonehead turned math genius bc that is fucking awful. And maybe you could even add in the actual autism angle bc like. Doesn't understand social cues, takes things too literally, etc. And either way she would graduate in s3 and get out of my face. So that's what I'd do with Brittany

Finn is easier but also harder bc this is such a gargantuan task and deviation from canon but. Have him actually be more like the person we're told he is. You TELL me he is this amazing uniter of cliques, kind hearted, perfect blend of a jock and show choir god, ushering the school into a new age of togetherness. You SHOW me he is a lil bitch who runs away from the club at the slightest difficulty, drops slurs and outs people on the reg, wants to be the leader without putting in the work, and is kind of a ball hog who actually sucks at football and isn't that great a singer. What's not clicking

Obviously Finn doesn't have to be perfect. He can have issues and uncertainties. But holy shit maybe have one issue once or twice. Doing this same bullshit half a dozen times and never learning a lesson makes me hate him!!!! Idk man just make him less of a fucking asshole

And don't fucking act like he ascended to sainthood when he died. I'm sorry but that bullshit about like "Finn wanted Sam in the club bc he was looking for someone to take over his legacy when he was gone" like shut the fuck up that actually sounds insane. Don't fucking do that. Finn is just a dude. Just make him be a kind of chill and cool dude with his heart in the right place but he slips up and makes mistakes bc he's still human. He doesn't use slurs or out anyone. He isn't constantly beating people up. He doesn't attack a sex worker, thanks. Maybe don't make him a serial cheater either, that would be nice

As for Sebastian, yeah, no, you can scrap him completely. He isn't interesting or fun and it actually drives me insane that he's the fifth most popular character on ao3. You can have your own preferences, you can like a little rich bitch bratty bad boy villain wannabe. But knowing that that many people are so far up his butt makes me wanna scream lol

Shelby, I would change her plotline by having her end up in jail. That would be a nice arc for her character

Will, I would change him by having him be a decent teacher. Broke: himbo Finn. Woke: himbo Will. He's kind and tries his best but he is shockingly dumb. Doesn't realize his wife isn't really pregnant for like five months?? The pieces are there. He sometimes lets himself be bulldozed in his own classroom but when other students talk, he listens. Takes their suggestions, actually shines a light on everyone, helps them improve and lets everyone have their moment in the spotlight. In the end everyone loves him and when he wins teacher of the year, it doesn't feel like a hollow bullshit contrivance

Sue. Either make her drop the villain shtick by about s3, or get rid of her entirely. Talk about going around in circles. I really think she was the worst of it. It got sooo old and boring and it was the same thing for six seasons. So have her be an ally to the club come s3, after her sister's funeral bc that makes sense. Or just write her off. Idc how

Don't ever let Rory set fucking foot on this show. Sorry to the actor but that character was partially responsible for why s3 went down the fucking shitter. He was terrible, and having to write plots about being Irish made early s3 a fucking joke

Oh and I would magically make it so that the viewers of the show have some common fucking sense. And if a character is being racist or a bigot or just a general cunt, there wouldn't be 2395890 compilation videos on youtube praising them for being brutally honest or sassy or hilarious or what have you. :) You know, if I had THAT kind of power

So yeah those are my thoughts. Took me a while to answer but I appreciate the ask!

#glee #long post #asks #answered #my thoughts #anonymous #anti brittany pierce #lol brittany pierce #anti finn hudson #lol finn hudson #anti sebastian smythe #lol sebastian smythe #i think those are the only ones people actually like #for whatever reason #no one's out here for rory or shelby so they dont need anti tags #i assume #also that quote in regards to brittany is from scream 2 #from dewey deputity dewey boy