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lattewithatwistoflemon · 3 years

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Gundam Wing Essay

January 25, 2021

Gundam Wing has this powerful nostalgia for me, even though I didn’t actually watch the show when it came on television when I was little. I just shrugged it off and said I didn’t like Gundams. Yet I’m finding myself drawn to these characters and wondering if, in some subconscious way, this show influenced who I’ve become. From my love of damaged, traumatized bishounen to my inclination to dress exactly like Relena, despite never consciously thinking about her in all these years... I feel like maybe aspects of this anime molded me into who I am today.

Every time I heard one of my favorite songs, “Kiss Me” by Sixpence None The Richer, there was a couple there in my head, and I couldn’t pinpoint who they were... But after looking at the Gundam manga issue I got when I was 7, where Heero and Relena are in a romantic garden together, and seeing the ending sequence of the anime, where Relena stands in a field wearing that dress and that hat, I can’t help but think “it’s them”. It’s been Heero and Relena in my head all along, as this idealized fairy tale couple, every time I heard that song. Thinking back on my childhood impression of them, I realized I always imagined them as being like Romeo and Juliet, talking to each other over a balcony, over a courtyard garden, in a star-crossed, Shakespearean romance. In my head, they were always so deeply in love. Perhaps they were a symbol of romance itself. I don’t remember if I had seen a specific scene in the anime as a child that made me see them as a couple, or if my memory is just based on that one chapter of the Ground Zero manga, but either way, they were imprinted on my mind as the most quintessential, devoted lovers. She was a fairy tale princess, and he was the gallant knight who would come rescue her.

Zechs feels like an ideal fairy tale prince... the kind that will kiss my hand, give me roses, and carry me bridal style through a beautiful European garden, to a sweet little white outdoor table, where we drink tea out of fine China teacups, while the sun shines brightly, and the leaves of the trees around us cast shadows upon us that sway with the breeze. Yet Zechs also possesses that same dark, seductive quality of the Phantom of the Opera, whispering in my ear with that voice that’s both sinister and incredibly romantic at the same time, as if luring me into his embrace. Zechs has this beautiful duality to him. He goes down a dark path on multiple occasions, but even so, he feels terrible guilt for what he does. Because of this, he still comes across as honorable and chivalrous to me. Other anime characters that I’ve seen since then have had a similar feel, such as Yue from Cardcaptor Sakura and Griffith from Berserk. I’ve even created original characters for my own stories who are long haired, princely men with ambiguous morals, who I now wonder if they were subconsciously inspired by this one, long-forgotten figure that I had briefly seen as a 7-year-old. I tended to like blonde characters when I was little, and like most little girls, I loved the idea of a perfect, gentlemanly prince charming. I’m genuinely surprised that I didn’t remember him from when I was a child. Perhaps if I had seen those gentle blue eyes beneath the mask, I would’ve fallen in love.

Duo has a much different quality from Zechs. He feels familiar in a way that’s hard to pinpoint. He’s brash, energetic, and laid-back at the same time. He has this friendly, approachable quality to him that the other characters don’t possess. It feels like I can actually get close to him, while all the others feel like they’d push me away. I’ve realized Duo reminds me of various other characters, most of which are from video games, such as Sonic, Dante, and most importantly… Link. Link was my very first crush. My attachment to Link stemmed from the Ocarina of Time game. It wasn’t until many years later that I watched the animated Zelda series, in which Link is very much like Duo. I never thought of myself as being particularly attracted to that version of Link, yet now, when seeing an actual anime character who resembles him in appearance and personality, I find myself incredibly drawn to him. I can’t say for sure whether my attraction to Duo is due to his similarity to Link or to any other character or if it’s simply because of how warm and approachable he feels compared to the other gundam pilots. I remember that Duo’s design always stuck out to me the most, as the cute one with the braid.

For as long as I can remember, I’ve always been interested in angry, angsty characters who have traumatic backstories. For the longest time, I was under the assumption that Heero would be a basic, friendly protagonist. So when I finally started watching this show 20 years later, I was surprised by him being the type of angst-ridden anti-hero that I love nowadays. When I was 13, I discovered Saiyuki, and instantly obsessed over Genjo Sanzo, who’s exactly like Heero in that sense. His past trauma turned him into a cold, ruthless killer, who, despite his self-loathing, came to the decision that he must continue killing in order to live. While watching Gundam Wing, I saw these same qualities in Heero. Whatever he’s experienced before the start of the anime must have damaged him so badly that he’s become this cold-blooded killer. Judging from how quick he is to throw away his life for his mission, I conclude that he despises himself for all the people he’s killed. Just like Sanzo, he pushes aside that self-loathing to live on and continues fighting for what he believes is right. In addition to Sanzo, another character that I love with a similar personality type is Kai from Beyblade. Although his circumstances aren’t as extreme as Heero’s and Sanzo’s, since he hasn’t killed anyone, he also has a chip on his shoulder from his past trauma that causes him to be cold and put up a wall between himself and the people around him. Out of the characters that I know of who have this personality type, Heero would have been the first one I had seen. Even though I don’t remember knowing that Heero was like this, since I had assumed he was completely different all along, part of me gets this feeling of “what if he was the start of this? What if he’s the reason I love this type of character?” I wonder if it’s possible for him to have influenced my inclination towards these characters without me having any memory of it.

Adding to this topic of traumatized characters, Trowa also fits the bill. His trauma isn’t portrayed as anger against the world, as with the characters listed above. Instead, he’s often depicted as depressed and sometimes frightened, in a way that makes Catherine and myself feel pity for him. When he loses his memory and holds himself, shivering, that is a perfect illustration of the type of characters that I like, due to their vulnerability and need for protection. My very first favorite anime character was Hotaru from Sailor Moon, who very frequently displayed these same actions, which made me instantly love her. Also, Trowa reminds me a lot of Hakkai from Saiyuki.

Both Heero and Trowa are suicidal. Trowa had one or two moments highlighting this, but Heero has had at least 5 instances where it looked to me like he was trying to kill himself. He would often do something incredibly dangerous, without any regard to his own life. In one instance, he very nearly blew himself up, which resulted in him being bed-ridden and covered in bandages. I’ve always had a strong interest in suicidal and self-loathing characters like this. Whether this is from some sort of motherly instinct that makes me want to protect them or some sort of sadistic interest that I have with fictional characters, I’m not entirely sure. But either way, these two Gundam Wing characters stuck out to me very strongly due to their trauma and suicidal intent. Since Heero had always given me the impression of being the epitome of a shounen hero, him being suicidal struck me especially hard, and this just made me like him all the more. Even when I watch more lighthearted shows, I like to headcanon these kinds of things. For instance, I headcanon multiple Beyblade characters to be abused, suicidal child soldiers, so it was interesting to see that these things were canon in Gundam Wing. It’s rare for me to find an anime that focuses on traumatized bishounen characters similar to Saiyuki, so when I realized Gundam Wing was like this, I felt like it was written for me. I’ve come to call this the “pretty boys in need” genre.

Another reason this anime speaks to me is that, whenever I see Relena, I feel like I’m looking at myself as an anime character. Over the years, from high school to college especially, I’d developed my own fashion sense and aesthetic. This consisted of me wanting to wear ruffled blouses and long skirts. I loved feeling like a proper Victorian lady. I wore puffy sleeves, bows, and frills. My favorite colors to wear, which people have said look the best on me, were shades of red, pink, or maroon. I’d also wear a lot of white. My favorite hairstyle has always been straight cut bangs with my hair partly tied back, just like Relena’s. The hairstyle was consciously inspired by Gabrielle from Xena Warrior Princess, but I can’t help but wonder if Relena had some subconscious influence on it as well. My hair is naturally brown, but I was born blonde, and I often bleach my hair, so it’s usually somewhere close to her dark blond/light brown hair. My eyes are also dark teal, like Relena’s. Although I’ve lately been working a lot and hardly have the chance to dress up, I still see this Victorian princess image as my ideal appearance, which makes Relena feel like an idealized anime version of myself. I feel like I’ve grown to become her. Although, this comparison is almost strictly appearance-based. Some people say I’m serious, but in general, I don’t feel like I’m nearly as serious as she is. My life revolves around anime (certainly not politics), and I’m known to be very giggly. Although Relena and I do share an interest in angsty bad boys. I can’t help but wonder if maybe, somewhere deep down in my subconscious, I always wanted to be like her?

Lastly, the entire aesthetic and feel of this show feels incredibly nostalgic to me. There’s a scene in the second opening, where Heero suddenly looks up at the camera in a way that makes my heart skip a beat. I’ve been having trouble figuring out exactly what the feeling is that this evokes for me. I’ll say it’s a mix of sweet nostalgia and perhaps guilt. The characters’ faces and art style are so incredibly familiar to me. I’ve known of them since I was 7, but I never gave the show a chance by trying to watch it. I told myself I didn’t like it, after seeing a couple minutes, because I very quickly came to the conclusion that I didn’t like mecha anime. I was only 7, yet this opinion stuck with me for 20 years, without me ever trying to change it. Over the years, I had almost completely forgotten about Gundam Wing. I shunned the show. Perhaps I shunned Heero most of all, with my assumption that he’s a normal, cliche shounen protagonist. So when he looks directly at the screen like that, while I’m captivated by the familiar beauty of the art style, I also feel a pang of guilt for neglecting him all these years.

I think the best way for me to conclude what it is about this series that makes me feel so strongly is that this space opera genre possesses the feeling of an Arthurian romance or a Shakespearean tragedy. While watching this show, my mind isn’t focused on the battles or the gundams. What draws me to this show are the characters’ relationships, emotional trauma, and the visual allusions to times long ago. Because of this, the small, barely remembered bits that I had seen as a small child had left such a big impact on me that, now, when I watch it for the first time, it feels like it’s been living inside my soul all along. When I watch this anime, I get this feeling that I can’t believe I’m actually watching it. As something from a bygone era that I had quickly discarded and never thought I would ever get back, it feels like some sort of miracle, as if I had gone back in time to watch this long-forgotten relic of my past.

Leah Marie

#if anyone takes time out of their day to read this... thank you so much!#i wanted to write something small but #it turned into a 2k word essay #i wasn't sure if i was going to like this anime but #it's safe to say i do #gundam wing #mobile suit gundam wing #gundam wing essay

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peletier · 4 years

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@memoryhallowed || fruity headcanon prompts || accepting!

🍎 : how stable is my muse’s mental health? have they been diagnosed with any mental illnesses and / or conditions? do they have any undiagnosed mental illnesses and / or conditions? do they or should they attend therapy?

// carol’s mental health isn’t the greatest at the moment. there’s fluctuations in her mental state, yes. the more alone she is, the worse it gets. even though that’s exactly what she tries to be when she feels herself deteriorating. sometimes i wondered if it’s some sort of unconscious search for punishing herself for what she sees as a failure in her eyes when it comes to keeping the people she loves safe. or the threat of failure. stemming from the loss of sophia. or even beginning with the loss of herself in her marriage to ed.

[[ rest under read more for length / triggering subjects such as spousal abuse, mental illness, child loss, grief, violence. do not read further if you are triggered by these subjects! comments/thoughts welcome in notes or dms. DO NOT REBLOG! ]]

there’s glimpses of ptsd throughout the years. panic and anxiety. as well as major depressive disorder. a lot of it stemming from the losses she’s suffered through and what happened in her marriage. it can come up through outbursts of utter merciless killing if she feels threatened, guilt ridden killing for the exact same thing if she hasn’t withdrawn from herself enough to get done what needs to get done. of how she can go into a panic. or fall into bouts of locking herself in her room and not dealing with anyone.

physical triggers. though it’s shifted throughout the years? carol will still respond if she is swung at or perceives someone ‘coming at her’ with ill intent. or shouting at her/treating her as if she is below them. mostly fight now, the opposite (flight) was how she responded in the past. raise a hand too quickly? she’d flinch then (VERY RARE OCCASIONS, she will do it now if she is extremely upset or her guard is gone) but mainly now? She’s likely to attempt to pre-empt your move and strike first. If she strikes second? Especially if the attempted assailant is male? You’re lucky if you’re left breathing. Even luckier if you are able to walk away.

nightmares. hallucinations from insomnia. or even from her subconscious. though those are very rare and surfaced during the trauma of losing henry and the subsequent war with alpha and the whisperers. one she tried to escape but, inevitably, was drawn into. from worry about those she loves and the guilt of abandoning them when she knew it was about to get bad. gut instinct is a bitch.

disassociation. she can shut herself down and not feel if that is what she needs at the time. like the fight with the wolves. she was able to damn near go to another place while she cut them down with methodical precision. however. once she STOPPED? that was when she broke down completely and decided she needed to leave because one more time like that? she was terrified of herself and not being able to bring herself back from that cold killer she was. she didn’t want to stop feeling. but problem was? she was feeling too much underneath that.

jump forward to the guys in the truck as she is trying to leave alexandria? you have her shooting them down with tears streaming. she can’t kill any more and there she is, having to kill or be killed. and she won’t let herself die because of them. but she doesn’t shut herself off. i think in that moment? it was beyond her. then the guilt rushes in and later after one comes after her? she’s begging someone to kill her. another breakdown that contrasts her murdering everyone to stay alive. it goes to show how unstable she is flipping from one to another and unable to balance them both. guilt, depression. those come washing in when she comes into herself. she gives up. only long enough for morgan to intervene. thankfully.

back when she did her many attempts (as a lot of battered women do) to leave ed. her and sophia went to the shelter in atlanta more than once. the counselor diagnosed her. but she refused medication because, in the end, she knew she would return to ed and he wouldn’t buy what some big city doctor told her. being on his insurance would’ve made things increasingly difficult for the steady care it takes to get on medication. and with how much he watched her? even more difficult to sneak taking it.

claustrophobia due to being locked in a room, held down, or trapped by ed is something she hasn’t been able to shake. even years later. when several triggers of her mental state could be put on more recent events? her claustrophobia is directly caused by him and has lasted. from the abuse she suffered? she may not ever be able to get rid of that. the smaller the space, the more she can’t breathe and anxiety takes over from there. it’s something that gets fed into and worsens and she can’t control it or herself which makes the attack even worse.

all these issues and others that i haven’t gotten into because i’m not able to word correctly just yet? i may add more to this sometime. carol is, for the most part, very reliant on herself. but. she’s also very reliant to the people who keep her even. the constant presences in her life that she can’t lose. whether or not she can be near them at certain times? that’s besides the point. she uses them as a focus, lets them help build up her strength, and is able to put them above herself when she needs to. it’s a complex thought process. but one i’m familiar with. the more you worry about others? the less focus you have on yourself. and your own problems. they’re still there. they’ll come back. but it’s almost a break from that??

carol isn’t without her peaceful moments though. there are times when she’s perfectly content. there’s still sad days sometimes then. if she remembers people she’s lost. especially her daughter or other children along the way, it hurts. but there’s parts of her that are so so strong. and they do come back. many of the issues above circle around times in her life where there’s chaos. this world gives them that regularly. she isn’t prone to these behaviors during all of them. as i said, she’s grown and become strong. but. sometimes? even the strong can break. and when they do? seems to me, in her sake? the stronger you are? the louder the pieces are when they hit ground.

#okay.#that was a lot bigger than i intended.#i guess i got into it.#there's more #but i gotta think on how i wanna say things.#also putting a few tws on this. for..#tw abuse #tw spousal abuse #tw child loss #tw mental illness #tw violence #from the desk of dixon (ooc)#about carol: exclusive headcanon

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roominthecastle · 6 years

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“Anybody can become angry, that is easy; but to be angry with the right person, and to the right degree, and at the right time, and for the right purpose, and in the right way, that is not within everybody’s power, that is not easy.” - Aristotle, The Art of Rhetoric

Well, look at that ancient Greek dude rolling out a pitch-perfect summary of - what I currently consider to be - Liz’s core issue on TBL. My core issue is that I cannot keep things brief, so I’ll poke this some more bc damn S5 was so much better than I expected, and it left me with an urge to try and sort this canon mess into sth I can swallow.

What’s the deal with Liz, why is her relationship with Red in such a terrible shape at the end of S5, and why is that a likely promise of better things to come?

It’s possible to look at this deterioration as a more or less continuous (organic!) process that reaches back at the very beginning; a process to which both characters have contributed their fair share over the years and now they are reaping the consequences and setting themselves up for a potentially healing collision.

I. Liz has narcissistic traits. Red is a natural born charmer with closely-guarded secrets and a pervasive guilt-complex. Putting them together is like putting mints in a bottle of coke: even on a perfect sunny day it's the kind of fun that leaves a mess.

II. Liz’s traits are amplified by Red’s behavior and Red’s behavior is warped by Tom’s presence. When Red scales things back (i.e. stops going on guilt-trips whenever others don’t feel like facing the consequences of their actions), it only makes things worse. This is the dark side of their intense "lock and key" dynamic, the deep angst pit that has been fore-fronted since S3B due to a rapid sequence of betrayals Red suffers from those closest to him. Tom triggers both empathy and repulsion in him, which in turn feeds his self-hatred and prompts him to keep enabling Liz out of guilt, creating an unsustainable bubble that finally bursts in S5.

III. The current name of the game for Liz is repression and denial, for Red it’s still obsession and rumination. At any given time Liz works off of a partial image of him, which is less about him keeping things from her and more about her purposefully ignoring parts of him in a misguided and doomed attempt to keep an illusion of safe simplicity (she does this with Tom, too). Meanwhile Red displays clear signs of compassion fatigue, which comes with its own destructive habits and distortions of reality.

IV. Sprinters are bad at running marathons. This simple truth has been a background tension factor in the Red/Liz relationship from the get-go. It’s mirrored in Red’s earlier troubles with Madeline and in Liz’s “Tom problem”. It keeps them united yet out of sync, which leads to misunderstandings, doubts, and quite a lot of friction.

more on these behind the cut:

I. Liz has narcissistic traits. Red is a natural born charmer.

Liz has a narcissistic streak and a tendency to delude herself as a messed-up coping mechanism, all of which she voices right off the bat in the pilot episode when Cooper asks her to profile herself (and to give us a brief intro to the character). These manifest chiefly as

(1) angry, aggressive outbursts (2) a sense of entitlement/egocentrism (3) blame-shifting

and she displays these traits to varying degrees throughout the show.

Now add to these the standard “Reddington Effect” that gets pointed out by other characters, articulating what Liz has been feeling since day one:

“There's no one on earth who can make a woman feel like the center of his universe more than Raymond Reddington.” (204)

“I was star-struck. It was exciting and captivating and... it consumed me. My work, my marriage.” (411)

We can also witness this "soft power” in action when Red approaches Zoe, Berlin’s daughter, to use her against her father. We can see how easily he can charm and pull people in to get what he wants. Sometimes it hilariously backfires - as it should - but that’s beside the point rn. The point is, Liz seems to receive this standard treatment, too, and she’s immediately, intensely receptive to it.

We can see both the positive (fascination-attraction) and the negative (rejection-aggression) side of this chemistry early on. She gets exposed to Red’s regular charm routine but it’s ultimately a v different experience because what those women quoted above don’t know (and what Liz still doubts) is that with her, his feelings run very, very deep. She is both the means and the end, the journey and the destination. Neither can walk this road without the other but walk it they must.

II. Liz’s traits are amplified by Red’s behavior and Red’s behavior is warped by Tom’s presence.

Thank God I have Tom, because with you, I never know what to believe. I have never lied to you. How the hell would I know?

Red’s secretive, seductive, guilt-ridden behavior feeds Liz’s narcissistic impulses.

(1) His ingrained "I will never tell you everything” ground rule regularly forms a volatile mix with her proneness to irritability and anger. There are countless examples of this (often understandable) reaction with a wide range that goes from a raised voice to actual physical aggression.

(2) It also clashes with her belief that she's automatically entitled to be told everything, regardless of the possibility that knowing might not make much difference to her but could get others killed, or the fact that she’s often careless w/ sensitive info and sometimes straight-up ignores the answer anyway.

This is an irresponsible and wasteful way of going about getting answers. Wanting to know doesn't entitle anyone to know. It's not at all surprising that Red - whose very life depends on carefully calculated discretion - is rarely fully forthcoming. Still, this is a major source of friction, esp as it seems to run counter to him telling her how special she is and treating her as such with a consistency that most well-adjusted people would fall for. A narcissistic personality like hers stands even less chance. This triggers jealousy and possessiveness very early on, and later engenders a full-blown expectation that when push comes to shove, he would always put her needs above anybody else’s, including his own. This (partially conditioned) expectation is in play e.g. when Tom re-enters her life and also when he violently leaves it again.

(3) Red is also burdened with a lot of chronic guilt which makes him an easy target for blame-shifting by those select few he loves. He often allows Liz to push blame on him for things he is not responsible for and he suffers in silence because “in his heart, he knows he must pay”. This also enables her to delude herself into thinking that he's indeed the unified source of all her problems, which makes her receptive to Mr. Kaplan’s terrible Solution to Nothing that targets him as such. Red has branded himself a “sin eater” and this gets taken full advantage of in a way that veers into emotional abuse. It paves the way for Operation Possum and its fallout that ripples across the next two seasons.

These 3 major negative “lock and key” interactions combine and reach a very unhealthy peak in S3/B. Liz’s thoughtless, pointless fake death stunt pushes Red to an edge he barely manages to pull himself back from, and it throws a wrench in the delicate cogwheels of their relationship where the degree of functionality and “healthiness” has always hinged on proportionate reciprocity (of good and bad alike). The faked death plan is - among other things - so disproportionately cruel and so exceptionally dumb and pointless, it unhinges this interplay.

It shakes Red from his grief- and guilt-induced stupor and cracks his habit of putting Liz on a pedestal. In S4 it is now Dembe who gets to be referred to as the "light in the darkness", which, given the changed circumstances, is a much better arrangement for both Liz and Red. Red would never ask anyone to carry this burden but the truth is, he needs someone like that by his side to keep him from falling to pieces. Dembe is a centered, reliable, well-adjusted person who can carry this heavy weight. Liz can't and she shouldn't, either. Now Dembe needs to be the lighthouse keeper as they navigate their stormy relationship.

On top of pulling Liz from the pedestal, Red also begins to scale back his willingness to play buffer and absorb blame. He pushes back against the kind of behavior he partially conditioned and enabled. He refuses to give in to Mr. Kaplan’s absurd and reckless vendetta that still targets him as the “root of all evil” in Liz’s life. He refuses to keep serving as a scapegoat for Tom’s failings and Liz’s self-imposed blindness, but the most significant “slight” contributing to the big fracture in his relationship with her is his refusal to share the secret of the bag.

“That’s why you’re here. That’s… Not to help me, not to avenge Tom’s death, but to help yourself and get your precious secret back.”

It is less about the secret itself and more about Red prioritizing it above her. She is jealous again but this time it is not directed at a person but at his “precious secret” that ultimately separates him from her, and once again it masquerades as projected and misplaced anger stemming from her deeper desire for their relationship to be close and genuine.

We have been here before when the Fulcrum surfaced:

"That's why you came into my life then. And that's why you're here now. Not because of me or who I am to you, whatever connection we might have, but because of some... object. Some thing."

and after her name gets cleared in S3/B:

I thought maybe after all we've been through the past three months that you might want to take a break. It's a mythic battle, and it's not anywhere close to being over. It's your battle, not mine.

and then again with the bag of bones. “Not me but” is the underlying issue that gets to her in each of these instances and it always manifests as anger.

From her warped perspective (warped by pain, confusion, and narcissism) he is deeply hurting her and taking everything from her to keep himself safe and cozy. It is the complete betrayal of her (partially conditioned but still unreasonable) expectation that he’d always put her and her needs first. In her eyes, this is again proof that their relationship, just like the one with Tom, has been a mere tool, a manufactured illusion, which - coupled with the impostor reveal - must truly mean Red never really cared for her at all.

But her assessment is once again dead wrong because she refuses to take a careful look at all the available information in proper context - a broader context where her personal issues are not the only ones of importance and where Red not bending to her every wish, esp those that make him deeply miserable or an instant murder victim, is not a sign of lack of genuine feelings but of a healthier attitude. She is also projecting anger at her own dishonesty with herself on him, and while it worked back when Red was receptive to it bc it was conducive to his self-flagellation, this messed up coping mechanism is finally breaking down, too, due to his increasing resistance and the multiplying events that signal he was never that alleged single source of evil.

"We want the same thing."

Indeed. It's the need underpinning Liz's anger, the same one Red has already articulated, albeit indirectly: "an inextricable intimacy and a commitment." Liz uses anger to express this, Red uses fish stories and Tom.

We were both half right. Together, we were right.

Liz sees Red's commitment forever lying elsewhere: with his precious secrets. Red sees Liz's commitment tied up in her relationship with Tom even after his betrayal, even after his literal death. They’ve been longing for the other to break away and commit, but this longing still manifests indirectly and out of sync: she pulls Tom between them like a guardrail (and DG, too), so Red flees into his “work” as a defensive response, which she interprets as lack of genuine interest and withdraws further into safe denial, and we have a vicious cycle on our hands. Despite all that, she still wants him to give up his secrets and he still wants her to give up her fixation on Tom. It’s no accident Red is so captivated by her when she describes her fantasy to him. It’s v much his, too.

But they both feel betrayed right now and both cling to their respective security blankets: Red to his secrets, Liz to her anger.

III. The current name of the game for Liz is repression and denial, for Red, it’s obsession and rumination.

Liz's remark about Red during her therapy session is telling and relevant here:

"Some of what he's done is unimaginably bad. But some of what he's done for me is unimaginably good."

She has been privy to many good things Red has done for others (hell, an entire county once) but those are not factored in when she evaluates his "goodness". No, this is about her and again, it produces only a partial image. It is a good start to say to an outsider that they don’t have the full picture of who he is (or can be) and therefore their understanding is skewed. However, the same goes for Liz and she refuses to accept that her POV is limited, too, and that she is complicit in it being so. DG is a prime example: she is handed a DNA test and everything that contradicts the result is pushed aside at once. The same happened when Tom told her he was a changed man: she ignored the contradictions, so she could have the illusion of stability. Red withholds information but it’s Liz who blatantly lies to herself about many things.

But back to the quote above: so only what Red does for her is weighed on the scale of goodness. Only that defines his moral character. It is decidedly untrue but again it's a manifestation of possessiveness and something Red partially conditioned in her in moments where e.g. he says saving her helps him live w/ himself (104) or where he implies that being with her allows him to become less of a monster (209). As a result, he is reduced to something less but something confined to her, something conveniently simplified that - depending on her need - is easier to either embrace or scapegoat. When he goes along with what she wants (whether it is actually good or not), he is a welcome, positive presence. When he refuses her (no matter how justified or necessary it is), he is deemed toxic and gets rejected. But after Tom inserts himself back into their lives and after the fake death betrayal, Red seems to have less and less willingness to silently confine himself to her whims and wishes, and they finally reach a breaking point in S5.

Fans on both sides of the "why does Red care so much about Liz" fence focus heavily on love as his primary drive, and label the nature of the R/L relationship accordingly: parental and romantic respectively. What else could explain such grandiose display of unconditional love other than being related or being in love? To quote Red, "perhaps there's a third option." There is and despite it being on full display (or maybe because of it since the show has conditioned us to assume a convoluted mystery everywhere) we often overlook its importance:

With Red, guilt is the operative word. This is the governing emotion right next to love (a more recent development) to which many of his grand gestures are anchored. The pervasiveness of guilt in Red's life is pointed out several times in the show, most notably in episodes 104, 216, and 319:

“The farmer, who is no longer a farmer sees the wreckage he's left in his wake. It is now he who burns. It is he who slaughters. And he knows, in his heart he must pay.”

“The truth of it is, once you start down this road there's no logical place to stop. For the first few years, it may work. You'll draw some measure of virtue from being her invisible benefactor. But that won't last. It's all a fraud. That it's really not about her at all. That it's all about you. And you're just going through the motions to salve your own guilt. All the money, all the time and effort, all the favors in the world cannot possibly equal what you took away from her. Everything else is just a nice gesture.”

“It was a Hobson's choice. There was a woman and her child. Both were doomed. Both would die. I could either save one or lose both. I chose the child. It was the worst thing I've ever had to do in my life. Worst thing by far. I was arrogant. I presumed that there was an order to things, that there was... that if I nourished and protected and taught the child, she would be safe and happy. And she was neither. No matter what I tried to do, all I brought her was misery and violence.”

In each, the debilitating nature of guilt is given emphasis, the symptoms of which are exhibited by Red throughout the show. Chronic guilt can be an extremely powerful drive. As Red notes, "once you start down this road there's no logical place to stop". He genuinely believes he owes Liz an immeasurable debt and that nothing, not even wrecking or even giving his own life for her, could make up for it. If we look at his behavior from this perspective, the primary answer to why he is willing to go to such great lengths for her becomes obvious. He loves her, too, of course, but love is - as noted above - is a more recent, healthy development, and it still has to co-exist with deep-seated guilt that keeps it in a toxic choke hold. This combination is the main reason why he cannot deny Liz anything (see: Tom) and why he's so vulnerable to blame shifting. When someone believes they deserve to be used and punished by the one they also come to love more than anything, the danger of abuse skyrockets, too.

Guilt-driven gestures, no matter how grandiose, are ultimately selfish and fake, as Red observes. But after he finally meets her, love starts creeping into the picture, shifting their dynamic and imbuing it with something real and selfless. And Red starts pushing back a little now where Tom is concerned. This sprouting, deepening love, however, gets badly trampled on when the guilt-trips and betrayals come. Red endures them because guilt says "you deserve it", but it no longer has quite the same hold as it once did. Heartbreak is a somewhat sobering experience but until the still unknown source of his guilt is uncovered and addressed, his relationship with Liz, his love for her, cannot reach genuine fulfillment.

IV. Sprinters are bad at running marathons.

Red and Liz want the same thing (as we have established above) but she is impulsive and wants it now whereas he is wary and plans long-term.

“I can’t tell you what I’m gonna want 10 years from now. Even a year from now. I just know what I want right now.”

Liz is no fan of delayed gratification. She has wants and she wants those satisfied "right now" even if it means she has to trade a more secure, more enduring yet still unavailable future (Red) for a readily available present of poorer quality (Tom). The former requires hard work (of the sweat, blood, and tears kind), honest self-evaluation, careful planning, and lots of patience. The latter is just easy and right there, so she cuts straight to the finish line, then it all promptly comes crashing down on her.

This is what happens after her exoneration in S3B. She goes to Red but instead of some quality personal time, he acts prickly and distant, then whips out a giant map to show her how just much hard work still needs to be done before Odysseus can even consider returning home. Her response? She rejects it (and him with it) and goes straight back to Tom. He promises to give her everything she wants right there and then at a discount. She only has to bury her head in the sand regarding a couple of things and since Liz is prone to self-delusion and denial by default, she jumps at the opportunity. This is where her relationship with Red begins to go off the rails.

“Circumstances are far more complex than we ever imagined. I’m betting on the long play. The future.”

Red plays the long game when it comes to the most important things in his life, and he doesn’t shy away from torturous self-examination and self-denial to secure enduring results and a better future for those he loves. Liz’s relationship with Tom was a sprint with many corner-cutting and the inevitable letdown. They had a short present, but no future. With Red, there is a future still but Liz has to run a marathon to reach it and being a sprinter, she struggles a lot.

But she is not the only one struggling. Red is still traumatized by the loss of his family, which makes him instinctively reluctant to try to settle down again. Those who inflicted that debilitating loss still represent an active force in the world (see: the map). The longing to settle down is certainly there. It’s a dream he shares with Liz. They practically wish upon it under the stars while “Our House” is playing, but on top of his guilt and grief, the circumstances seem to be forever against him, so he doesn’t dare actively push for it like she does (he even rejects Agnes at first). He redirects his focus to the “job” to try and create a safer environment and maybe a future opportunity. This folds back to the marathon approach that Liz rejects at first but now, after Tom's demise, she must face. She vows to destroy Red but I don't think it will be a literal destruction. Deep down they still want the same thing and even though they have yet to admit it openly, they want it with each other.

Their time spent on the run in S3/A is immersed in the theme of a shared home. Liz and Red seek refuge in a theater where the stage is set as a home. This is where Liz tells Red about her fantasy and this is where Red immediately retreats behind a wall when he realizes that Liz will be pulled back into Tom's orbit.

“I’m not interested in what you want. I’m interested in what you deeply desire. I can sense that death and vengeance aren’t what drive you, Elizabeth. Or feed your soul. [What does?] A lost world, I suspect. Another life. If you can’t face your truths, I can’t be of service.”

The Djinn makes a clear distinction between “what you want” and “what you deeply desire”. It is echoed in the tension-filled dream Liz has where Red removes Tom from the picture just when he is about to spill a secret (nice piece of foreshadowing btw), then stalks up to her bed and asks her the same thing - not just what she wants but what she really wants. This image of Red stepping up as a sexual-romantic partner after her husband’s demise is shoved deep down in her subconscious. It is one she is not yet ready to face, but it is there - the option of making a home with him, an option he, too, keeps at arm’s length due to past trauma and present circumstances, and it adds even more tension to their interplay.

This exact type of unresolved tension has already popped up on this show when Madeline Pratt re-entered Red's life w/ some grievances.

"Florence was everything, our way out, a fresh start. But to you, it’s all just a job."

She feels betrayed and played for a fool because Red chose to continue living his danger-magnet criminal life, prioritizing it over her and their intended home.

"They used Pratt as bait, faked the kidnapping in order to bring Red into the Kings’ custody."

Later on, counting on his savior complex, she lands him in hot water to get even. She stages her own kidnapping and lures Red into a trap set by an enemy with a score to settle. If it sounds familiar, that’s because we see something similar play out between Liz and Red. It’s low-key in the background during S3-4 (w/ the whole home theme) and gets kicked into high-gear in the S5 finale (when Liz thinks he played her for a fool so he can continue living his criminal life):

We were out. You said the ship we were on was headed to Spain. Change of plans. Because? Because after far too much time playing defense, today’s the day we switch to offense.

They could get away and start a new life but Red refuses to quit his "mission". As mentioned above, he tells Liz they still have a lot to do and her reaction is disappointment, and when Tom offers her everything Red is not yet able (to go away and start fresh), she accepts. And this is when their downward spiral begins in earnest and all the accumulated hurt peaks in S5, in Liz's very Madeline-esque plan to fake a kidnapping and lure Red to one of his enemies for some answers and score-settling (the same business the Kings were into w/ their illicit auctions):

If you’re gonna tell him you hurt me, he’s got to believe you. You knew Reddington would come for you. He got to do what he always does: try and save me.

Indeed. And he is about to confess his greatest secret to save her life when they get interrupted and an alternate solution presents itself. He kills Sutton, takes the bag and leaves. Liz vows to destroy him after this and I think she is right. Raymond Reddington needs to die for good this time. He needs to die so the man behind that mask can finally emerge. He needs to die so Liz can finally face and understand the full picture.

Red’s guilt feeds on the secrets he keeps and Liz continues to cling to her anger because these secrets are a wedge between them. The murky past and their distorted perception of it (Red's warped by guilt, Liz's scrambled by memory manipulation) hold them and their relationship hostage, so it must be disclosed and sorted for both their sakes. The second chance will not come until this happens. When it does, I think it will be the most cathartic moment in the history of this show.

This collision course is their way back home.

#long post #the blacklist #lizzington #(not too much i was trying really hard to keep this from turning into a shipper fantasy blueprint)#(emphasis on trying)#speculation #musings #q

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hellzyeahthewebwieldingavenger · 7 years

Text

On the issue of Spider-Man’s guilt

Essentially Stan Lee overexagerated it for two reasons

a) The character was young and thus would naturally exaggerate that sense of angst and guilt although if you actually look at Stan’s run Peter doesn’t bang on about guilt nearly as much as you might, think especially compared to say Slott’s run (where you get bullshit like this)

b) It was written by 1960s Stan Lee who generally speaking exaggerated ALL of the emotions with his characters simply because he and his crew had tapped into the idea of superhumans with human emotions and consequently overmilked those emotions for all they were worth most of the time

Consequently other writers who held up Stan’s run as sacred followed in his lead and many of them didn’t bother to adjust the degree of Peter’s guilt and emotions because they were trying to replicate Stan’s stuff despite Peter’s maturity and the changing writing standards of consequent decades making that portrayal illogical.

However (from an in-universe POV) when you REALLY think about Peter’s character the assertion that he has like crippling guilt issues that he needs like major herepy to address or he’s stunted in his growth as evidenced by those feelings of guilt (because they look immature) doesn’t quite add up.

First of all...his Dad died when he was 15 years old due to a situation that Peter could have prevented but didn’t due to selfishness and arrogance.

it didn’t help that his Dad and his now widowed mother were essentially saints who were the best parents of all time to him and he’d contributed to the death of one of them and as ramifications of that whilst emotionally scarred the other, threw her into financial straits, increased her levels of stress and all that shit helped put her already dodgy health into a less stable state. A state that grew so serious that he gave her a blood transfusion only for that cure to wind up being worse than the disease as it literally gave her radiation poisoning and nearly killed her.

And did I mention they were both sweet old people who probably would’ve retired much earlier had they not had to raise him.

THEN in later life he accidentally kills his girlfriend who was in an extremely life threatening situation specifically due to her association with him.

This isn’t even addressing all the other times people in his life have been endangered or sometimes harmed due to their association with him.

And all thisstuff happened to him from age 15 onwards.

Bearing all that in mind is it any WONDER Peter has a tendency to blame himself for things, even things that aren’t strictly speaking his fault?

Is that really teenage angst and immaturity he never grew out of or is it actually a the perfectly natural mindset of someone who’s lived these particular life experiences?

That being said in all honesty the degree to which Spidey’s angst and guilt are played p fluctuates between writers and stories, sometimes to the point where he’s portrayed with an uncharacteristic LACK of guilt.

If you follow his character leading up to say just before the Mackie/Byrne reboot in 1998/1999 there was actually a relatively linear progression for his character where the guilt and tendency t blame himself was still there but it was handled with greater maturity and wasn’t coming across as (at face value) ‘juvenile’ as in earlier stories.

But it goes beyond that because if you think about it...how guilt ridden is Spider-Man REALLY?

We know that for all the times he’s had a few nightmares it’s not like he rarely gets a good night’s sleep (Spidey needs less than the full 8 hours of most people due to his super powers, but nevertheless he’s hardly walking around tired out most of the time).

Despite the instances where associating with him has endangered the people in his life he still maintains those interpersonal relationships.

Despite even Gwen’s death he continued to date after she died and never even questioned doing that in regards to endangering those women’s lives, even when early in his relationship with MJ (the first relationship he had after Gwen died) Ms Watson was hospitalized due to an explosion meant for Peter as HIS apartment.

Hell there have even been instances where peter has allowed criminals to escape for one reason or another. Most of the time you can justify it but on the occasions where he’s ruminated and felt guilty about this after the fact he’s never seemed AS guilt ridden as you’d naturally think given his origin story.

Can this be accounted for by simple human nature? That depending upon what side of the bed we got out on or what we went through the day before or what we have planned for tomorrow the degree to which we feel things and act upon situations can vary even when presented with similar stimuli?

Sure...but not to this extent. Again...Gwen dies and on panel we never see peter question if it’s right for him to date another woman and thereby risk a repeat of what happened to Gwen?

In fact if Peter had really been living with a chronic guilt complex the likes of which would require major therepy because it’d stunted his growth really he should consistently be way more guilty than we usually see him to be, not just guilty in the instances established on panel. It should be like an almost day-to-day default setting for him.

With all that in mind I put this little explanation to you.

Peter has issues with guilt but not the kind which really require major therepy, or at least not much therepy.

Its not that deep down he HONESTLY blames himself for all the things we see him blaming himself for or carries the burden of guilt for those things around with him constantly.

That’s true of some major things like Gwen andUncle Ben’s deaths, but most of the time, whether it’s not making it to a burning building in time or blaming himself for a super villain just existing, Peter’s guilt is more of a kneejerk emotional reaction he adopts out of habit and/or possibly to give himself a sense of control of the situation.

And it doesn’t last.

Oh, he might walk around feeling bad for awhile (and the milage on how long could vary) but deep down he knows those things aren’t really his fault and that given time he’ll get over it and move on, maybe even forget it outright.

That’s actually why MJ is important.

Sometimes when Peter is genuinely internalizing his guilt she can help him move past it and get closure on it.

At other times she can just verbally slap some sense into him so he moves past the kneejerk guilt stage more quickly which is both healthier and allows him to focus on more important things, consequently positively impacting his life.

She provides a balance and in her own way a form of therapy.

It helps she studied psychology too.

P.S. the thing about Peter dating again after Gwen died and not concerning himself with the risks I think can be explained by two things

a) Peter NEEDED that emotional connection at the time to help him stay sane and stable. He needs that of all his interpersonal relationships and pursuing romanctic fulfillment is an important part of that (even if it’s unbelievable he’d keep it up following the loss of MJ post-OMD)

b) His guilt stems less from the mere fact he had a relationship with Gwen and more from the fact that it was his webline that killed her. Deep down he knows he wasn’t immoral or to blame for dating Gwen or anybody else because he knows he’s entitled to live his own life. Gwen’s own father did just that. He was a respected police captain, someone with enough clout and influence that criminals had axes to grind with him and the Kingpin sought him out as an asset.

The latter situation (which had nada to to with Peter) resulted in Gwen’s life being endangered due to her association with her own father. And between his wealth, criminal connections and public image the Kingpin is actually a lot MORE dangerous than say a lone super powered lunatic like Doc Ock (at least as far as if he’s out to get you) because he can subtly attack you from all angles and you’d never see him coming. And you couldn’t get the police to protect you or even slow him down because he can BUY the police. Hell he can HIRE dudes like Doc Ock to off you or your family if he really wants to.

Peter is aware of that so if an old policeman with a public ID, no super powers and generally more age and wisedom than him saw fit to have a family and a life of his own then Peter probably felt that it was okay for him to do the same, despite him bleeting about it at certain points.

P.P.S. Mary Jane in Soul of the Hunter once said peter has got guilt issues and my fav DeMatteis wrote that. With respect I’m gonna explain that one away as MJ being off her game and tired because...that’s not really true and DeMatteis, though I adore his work, has always ridden the guilt train a bit too much even going so far as to say peter has inherent guilt issues because when he was like 3 years old he blamed his parents’ deaths on himself. This is both unrealistic and also goes against core philosophies underpinning Spider-Man...it was cool in its execution though.

#J.M. DeMatteis #mjwatsonedit #MJ Watson #mary jane watson #Mary Jane Watson Parker #Gwen Stacy #Spider-man #Peter Parker #Stan Lee #Kingpin #George Stacy

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