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shimmershae · 1 year

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My thoughts on the Walking Dead Series Finale, Rest in Peace.

Or did they change the title?

No matter. Spoilers ahead. So tread carefully through the lengthy landmine of my consciousness, lol.

Placing behind a cut because reasons. Oh and typos abound because it’s 3 am and I haven’t gotten a good night’s sleep since this episode so.

Some general thoughts about Season 11 and TWD in general—much like the season, this is gonna be all over the place so BEWARE and read accordingly

· Carol and Daryl deserved a better ending than that.

· Except for the images of all the characters we’ve loved and the ones we’ve lost along the way saying “we’re the ones that live”? I basically hated that Richonne coda. It was too long, too detailed, and too ambitious for a show that all too frequently in its latter season dropped the ball on the little things that would have paid off big.

· I’ve lost count of how many fucking time jumps this show has taken over the span of its entire run, but I do know there have been too many. Not only that but they’re always skipping valuable character moments and arriving at their “end destination” without any build up because, yep, they skipped it. What could have been forgivable a few times turned into one of this show’s biggest liabilities.

· So many characters just disappeared with little to no explanation. Off the top of my head? Heath. Cyndie. Hell. All of Oceanside was hand waved away this season. Virgil. Like did the dude die or what? And what of Annie? Negan’s insta-wife carrying his redemption-baby? After having comparable screen time to the show’s leading lady (c’mon, you know it’s true, especially in 11A and 11B), she just vanished.

· Speaking of screen time, what in the actual fuck were TIIC thinking sidelining their leading lady, their most talented actress, the heart and soul of the whole damn show? As Carol, Melissa McBride is an incomparable actress. Absolutely phenomenal. And as one of two OGs, she should rightfully have figured very prominently in the main storyline threads this entire season, not just had her appearances sprinkled over the last 8 episodes.

· Inexplicably, it seems Carol’s screen time was “given” to Maggie so that she might have a circular argument with Negan for 2/3’s of the season and only see any real forward momentum and emotional realism in the last handful of episodes. The final episode really. Given that she has her own spinoff with Negan, it makes very little sense and made for an extremely dull first 2/3’s of the season watching them basically meep, meep like the Road Runner on a treadmill going nowhere.

· About that “heart to heart”—I cannot overstate how much it pains me to call any moment between Maggie and Negan that, especially when the pair most deserving of a bonafide heart to heart only got the skim milk version when they should have gotten the full fat, vitamin D version-- in the final episode, it was overdue and I loved that Maggie didn’t pull any punches with Negan because the man murdered her husband with more glee than most children open presents Christmas morning and that’s saying something. He can seek redemption all the day long and keep “proving” himself. But does that mean he will ever “deserve” Maggie’s forgiveness? Personally, I don’t think so and feel it is selfish to want it. Negan suffering the realization of what he cost Maggie and Hershel frankly isn’t enough, IMHO. I don’t care how much the fangirls cry about his woobie face. He’s come a long way and morphed into a character I find multi-faceted and entertaining if not wholly likable during Angela Kang’s tenure and I appreciate that. But as his exclusion from Team Family’s Thanksgiving-esque feast following their last battle proves at least to me? He’s a bad man that’s done some good things not a good man that simply lost his way because lovelies? That road was lost ten thousand detours ago.

· Random observation. Or more like questions, lol. Just who in the hell prepared that big ass feast Team Family enjoyed in the finale to the tune of Stevie Nicks’ Landslide? Who had the energy? It couldn’t have been too long after the battle because generally Walker bite victims don’t tend to linger terribly long, unless TIIC threw their usual conventions out the window with Rosita. Which, come to think of it, wouldn’t be outside the norm. They’re always changing things to suit their current needs.

· Ah, Rosita. I knew she’d been bitten soon as she fell into that sea of Walkers and the fact she didn’t have any torn or disheveled clothing was an eye-rolling moment for me. Also that she wasn’t bleeding because that, to me, suggests the bite didn’t break the skin and you know. Maybe I haven’t paid that much attention to all the various Walker bites in the past, sometimes I simply look away because of the gruesomeness of it all, but usually it takes a break in skin for infection to spread. I guess she got the Bob treatment, come to think of it.

· All that nitpicking aside, Rosita’s sendoff actually had some very lovely moments. Once I pushed back on how pissed I was that TIIC were leaving another child motherless. Were killing a WOC who had only recently enjoyed added dimension in her character and story (although…Rosita, like Carol, seemed be to relocated to the back of the class in Season 11 after having much more impactful screen time in Season 10, a far superior season). Her goodbye scenes with the people she loved, particularly Eugene, hit hard. But even those didn’t tug at my heart near as much as her trying to soak up every last second she could of her remaining time with Coco. That made me ugly cry.

· Know what made me ugly cry that I was in no way expecting? Luke’s death scene where Yumiko and Kelly and Magna and Connie were covered in his blood and their tears, sobbing as they fought futilely to save him. I don’t know. I wasn’t attached to him. I liked him well enough in the very small doses we got of him. But I didn’t actually expect to cry over him dying. Especially since we hadn’t seen him all season and he was obviously brought back to be sacrificed for a bloody death. Angel Theory, Eleanor Matsuura, Nadia Hilker, and Lauren Ridloff were very convincing in their love and grief for him.

· Carol and Daryl were no less convincing in their worry for the little Ass Kicker they both love but to be honest? Judith coming to in the nick of time and finding superheroine strength while being seemingly severely injured (I mean, she had blood coming out of her mouth) to rescue Uncle Daryl in the opening scene took me out of the moment so bad I had a hard time taking the ensuing scenes with her life being in jeopardy seriously. That and she might as well be wearing chain mail because Scott Gimple done fucked up once (and many times afterward, he’s a rambling, riddler of a perpetual fuck up) before by killing Carl and you’d hope AMC would have learned their lesson by now. I personally think not, but let’s move on from that, m’kay? I’ll address more on the Carol and Daryl front later. If I do so now, that’ll be all I talk about because I have a lot of feelings.

· Was Jules’ death a callback to Noah’s in that revolving door because it kind of felt like it?

· Sorry I’m bouncing around a lot here but these “reviews” of mine are always stream of consciousness and hey. I’m basically a human Dug, lol.

· So Daryl wakes up in that hospital bed with a massive shiner and gauze wrapped around his head. How’d he get there? Who else felt cheated by not getting to bear witness to Carol seeing her Pookie passed out cold on that hospital lobby floor alongside Judith? Who do you think she went to first? Judith or Daryl? Who helped her get them to safety? She’s the only one that has been shown to have the bare minimum of medical experience and it makes little sense she wasn’t taking lead on amputating Luke’s leg, at the very least assisting; I’m not discounting Connie’s bravery. Anybody that’s managed to survive in their world and make their disability their “superpower” would have to be, but I don’t see her taking that initiative. Assisting, yes. But holding the knife? No. Same thing with Kelly. So that part rang a little false for me but whatever. Anyway. Don’t you love how we have all these time skips and scene cuts that skip the parts we’re always curious about? Just me then? Okay.

· I can’t be the only person distracted by the increasing visibility of Norman Reedus’s real life tats. I mean. Daryl keeps having all this ink showing up, continuity be damned.

· Carol stroking Judith’s hair while she’s lying on that stretcher makes me wish we’d gotten more scenes of the two of them together. Maybe one where Judith, missing her mom, asked Aunt Carol to brush her hair at bedtime. Maybe even braid it. I mean, they established in one of the earlier eps Carol had been taking care of the kids in Daryl’s absence. They definitely could have spared a minute or two giving us a heartwarming scene like that to show a few things—how much Carol loves Judith despite trying to keep her somewhat at arms’ length, how very much she still misses Sophia, and where she was sleeping in Daryl’s apartment when he wasn’t there and if she and Dog were still missing him and sharing cuddles. 😉

· They really missed the boat big time not having Carol help Siddiq in the infirmary at Alexandria. I mean, sometimes I felt like they were hinting at it. Remember when Siddiq called Carol on the radio for Ezekiel and Dante answered? He was like “she’s right here.” I’ll forgive them not doing more with that though because Season 10 was chockful of Carol and she had so much going on. I didn’t feel the need to fix-it fic her into the fold because she was quite literally the fabric of the whole season but again. Let’s not dwell on that because feelings. I got lots of them.

· Mercer’s reunion with Princess was cute. She scaled that big man like a Sequoia, lol. It reminded me of how much I loved the idea of them earlier in the season. I really hate they got the fast-forward insta-couple treatment thanks to those oh-so-lovely time jumps and scene cuts because their courtship would have been something else. Literally so much of Maggie and Negan’s storyline could have been skipped over in favor of them and it wouldn’t have made a damn bit of difference other than the audience actually being more entertained and less exasperated.

· Okay though. I have to wonder two things about how the fuck Lydia and Aaron came to be back at the Commonwealth. How in the world did Lydia manage to stay upright much less walk with as much blood loss as she sustained? Also? That blood loss had to have her smelling like a Happy Meal to those Walkers. I mean, logic says so anyway, but I guess we all know logic doesn’t live here in this place.

· Rosita finding and rescuing Coco and there being a baby each for her, Eugene, and Father Gabriel made me laugh, not gonna lie.

· The callback to Shane blocking Rick’s door with the stretcher was a nice touch.

· Come on. Am I the only one LMAO at the obvious doll legs and feet in those shots of Eugene and Father Gabriel climbing that pipe? I mean, it was definitely distracting. Again, I ask how the fuck a Walker bit through the thick material of Rosita’s hoodie. It’s not like those assholes have shark teeth. Oh well, abandoning all measures of believability, I enjoyed how much of a fight Rosita put up and was inwardly cheering her on even as I had to refrain from rolling my eyes.

· We were robbed of witnessing Carol and Daryl’s reaction to seeing Lydia. Robbed, I tell you. Then again, we’ve been straight up pick pocketed all season.

· Negan looking concerned for Judith and flanking Lydia was an obvious blink and you miss it ploy to remind us he’s not all bad and it worked a tiny smidgen because JDM’s a softie with kids.

· I love that Aaron has come around where Lydia’s concerned. She’s a sweetheart of a kid that deserves all the love and Aaron has a lot of love to give at his core and experience with the situation she’s now in but dammit. Carol was right there and Melissa and Cassady would have literally brought us to our knees with nothing more than another tearful hug to mirror their last embrace. Why AMC? Why?

· Gimple’s version of Negan could never. That apology was a long damn time coming. Long damn time.

· Finally, I don’t feel resentment towards Eugene’s scenes this episode. Like for so very much of this season, Eugene and Maggie have been Pac-Man and Ms. Pac-Man, gobbling up all the airtime with stories we felt no emotional connection to or were just tired of hearing about because nothing novel happened but in this episode? They were stripped down to the heart of the matter. Somewhere along the way I fell a little bit in love with Eugene’s friendship with Rosita. I never expected to. There was an ick/cringe factor in the very early days. That changed about the time Rosita firmly friend-zoned him. I felt sympathy for the guy then even as I cheered Rosita on for saying the words he needed to hear. So him sussing out the truth of Rosita being bitten and her reaction to that? It broke my heart more than I ever thought it would. Their “I love you’s” were sweet and made me tear up and they were shaded so much differently than another pair of “I love you’s” that touched a nerve with a certain faction of fandom. I bet you can all guess who I’m talking about without my naming names. 😉. I mean, it’s not the first time the two relationships have been in direct juxtaposition with each other, demonstrating the true differences between platonic and romantic love.

· The silent look that passed between Daryl and Carol as they sat vigil at Judith’s beside was intense and full of all the things they’ve never dared speak between them. No two do it better than Melissa McBride and Norman Reedus and that’s 100% fact. That said, the time for their long, long, long overdue “heart to heart” should have been right there in that very moment. Or at least the beginning of it. Because all that chilly distance Daryl’s been keeping between them all season melted with that look at her. He already knew his feelings. He tried to tell her then show her why it wasn’t like that before the cave in. And being faced again with the fragility and brevity of the one life they’re given? It just seemed like the perfect time for confessions to be made, even if they were in the form of a simple “I can’t lose you” echoed back to Carol this time. For apologies to be spoken and accepted. But the lazy AMC scribes relied on the power and magic of Melissa and Norman’s chemistry to do all the work for them like they have basically all season and seriously. Fuck that. Those intense gazes have lit me on fire each and every time all season but goddammit. We’re past time for words here. They’re the OGs. The OG ship. The ship to end all ships on TWD whether some people want to admit it or not. The least they warrant is an actual honest conversation where they stop dancing around the hot pink elephant in the room—they are in fucking love, your honor. Anyway. Let me nudge these thoughts along before I write ten more pages about that.

· Carol’s stroking Judith’s hair again and I can’t help feeling that the walls she’d erected around her heart to protect herself after losing Lizzie/Mika/Carl/Henry started melting like an ice cream cone on a hot summer’s day because she hasn’t been shown to be that tactile with Judith since the Grove. In that respect, what comes later, her staying to help care for the kids, isn’t as much a WTF moment as it could have been.

· The ensuing moment, however? Judith’s comment to Daryl—“Sorry I didn’t tell you before. I was scared that you would leave, too” and Daryl’s response of “I’m right here” definitely adds to the WTFuckery of Daryl’s ultimate exit.

· Ezekiel’s pontificating is an obvious setup for what comes next for him. And like, it’s been obvious all season. But I will say this. I personally resent the fuck out of him leapfrogging Mercer, a figure that’s already been established to have celebrity status with the people of the Commonwealth, someone that’s been there since the beginning, and having a leadership position. Their positions should have been switched but again. Logic has no rightful home in this place.

· It’s the small things. Carol and Daryl barely letting each other out of sight the whole episode makes my heart sing.

· Father Gabriel letting the people inside the walls, especially after the way he was introduced, really makes it strike home how much he’s changed.

· There would have been something poetic about Walker Lance ending Pamela, not gonna lie. But then we wouldn’t have gotten Carol being Queen of Sass with her so.

· Okay. The scene where they’re trying to corral all the Walkers to end them should leave me with more than the thought of “Wow, what a waste of all that fuel, it’s not like there’s an endless supply.” It was anticlimactic but whatever. I’m not here for the fights or explosions or the damn zombies. They could have mentioned it in a line of dialogue and I would have been largely satisfied at this point because we’ve lost so much time this season with so many characters. Carol was criminally underutilized until 11C. I’ll never forgive TIIC for that. Ever.

· “We already had to make an ugly decision. Kept you alive.” LMAO, I love it when Carol’s a savage queen. “…At least we don’t have to worry about who gets your house.”

· Glenn was beautiful, Maggie. So beautiful. I still miss my baby.

· The scene between Maggie and Negan where she tells him she can’t forgive him? It is literally the best scene Maggie has had all season. I don’t want to remember Glenn like that either.

· Who cooked a Thanksgiving feast? Who?

· Eugene watching Rosita with Coco. Mercer and Princess cuddled up. Carol smiling and laughing. Dog. All to the tune of Landslide. My heart is so full.

· Rosita watching it all and confessing to Father Gabriel about being bitten with Judith noticing had me teary again and I’ve always been in the WTF camp with Rosita and Gabriel. Cailey’s little face, though. The child has a bright future.

· Carol and Maggie helping Rosita to bed and saying their goodbyes. The way Rosita seemed to squeeze Carol a little extra hard. I mean, everybody seems to just sink into a Carol hug and I’m pretty sure that’s all thanks to Melissa. Wouldn’t you? I know I would.

· “We’ll see you again someday.” When Father Gabe said that to Rosita, I let out a little sob and I never liked them as a ship. I was full on crying when Rosita told Eugene she was glad it was him with her in the end.

· Another fucking time jump. When will they ever end?

· Eugene and Max naming their baby Rosie was a sweet touch.

· I still can’t get over them making Ezekiel Governor instead of second in command to Mercer.

· Sounds like Daryl and Connie only see each other when he visits the different communities. I have many words for that but I won’t say them, lol.

· Lydia looks happy. She deserves it.

· Negan giving Judith her compass back—I’d honestly forgotten she gave it to him, it feels like forever ago. So I’m guessing he finally left like Carol tried to get him to when Maggie first returned. That’s what I got out of that scene anyway.

· They didn’t show us the whole memorial wall so all I can see is what looks like NIE, but I’m guessing Annie and the baby didn’t make it. Which is honestly too bad. In spite of her convenient insta-existence, I liked her.

· So. This time jump starts at the Commonwealth, goes to Alexandria where we see Carol with her beautiful short curls and the kids are there. The way Gracie greets Judith makes it plain Judith and RJ aren’t at Alexandria anymore. Carol’s little running hug of Aaron is adorable. Lydia and Elijah seem to go back and forth between the communities. Carol and Daryl, too, as evidenced by them traveling from Alexandria to Hilltop. Sorry for the run-on, thinking out loud commentary, lol. I’m just trying to piece everything together.

· Oh my heart. There’s no longer distance or the symbolism of distance between Carol and Daryl. They’re on the same side of the river, literally side by side. I mean, they’ve been that way the whole episode but this is different and you all know why.

· Can’t help being a little resentful of Maggie’s talk about the future that leads Daryl away from Carol’s side. Because ugh. All that talk of “we have a future” and him spending chunks of it away from her. Ugh. Did I say that already? I don’t care.

· Carol saying it’s a beautiful day to head out and Daryl looking right at her as he agrees. I’m crying.

· Nowhere in the fuck of ever has Carol expressed any interest in having Hornsby’s job so fuck whoever decided to retcon that into the narrative.

· “It’s not like we’ve never gonna see each other again.” But can you promise that, Daryl? Can you? Tomorrow isn’t promised. The world is shit sometimes. I hate TIIC for separating them and for why? Why? I know why, spinoff reasons, but narratively why? Make it make sense. You cannot. It’s not like he’s going out to look for Rick and Michonne because a year has passed and it’s apparent he hasn’t ventured all that much further than their established communities. He’s been out “in the frontier” but not so far out that he and Carol and the kids don’t have regular contact.

· So. They left Hilltop and went back to the Commonwealth? Did Carol ride home with him on his bike? Did the kids take a wagon or train? Somebody explain this to me like I’m 5 years old, please. I can’t help thinking she clung to him on the bike ride home, neither one of them really talking about what Maggie proposed because they didn’t want goodbye to be even closer and then they had that emotional talk by the river and oh my heart. It hurts. It hurts. It hurts.

· They’re beautiful. I love them. Now and forever.

· So what? Are the kids staying with Ezekiel now? Aunt Carol? I’m a little lost.

· Judith promising to keep an eye on Dog and Daryl having her promise to keep an eye on Carol. He loves her so much. It’s almost like…you know what? I swear to god if they went canon off-screen and had their first kiss and everything but exchanged those three words…

· Judith looking at Aunt Carol while telling Daryl he deserves a happy ending too is obviously a subtlety lost on a certain faction of shippers and I cannot fathom why because it is so very loud, lol.

· The fact that Judith called him Daryl instead of Uncle Daryl makes me think he’s still involved in their lives and loves them very much but he’s not involved in their everyday lives and he’s distancing himself from them. Then again, it could just be that Judith’s growing up because Cailey has grown so very much since she first started the show.

· Speaking of growing up, dwell on this little nugget. Daryl’s been in Judith’s life from the start. Rick was only there for maybe the first 3 years. Like the man has missed the entirety of RJ’s life and the majority of Judith’s and then they had Michonne leave them basically searching for a needle in a haystack, no guarantee she’d ever find him or make it back to them, and now she’s missed what? Almost 2 years of those babies’ lives? I know the storyline was steered a certain way because of Danai’s exit from the show but it will never sit well with me that a woman, fictional though she may be, would ever leave her children to go on a search that might lead to absolutely nothing in such a dangerous world. Especially with her history of losing Andre. By the time Michonne (and Rick) makes it back, those kids could be half grown and that’s sad AF.

· That hug between Ezekiel and Daryl was a weird touch but hey. Maybe they’ve made their peace with each other and their respective places in Carol’s life.

· I mean, Ezekiel took those kids with him to give Daryl some privacy saying goodbye to her so.

· Carol waiting by Daryl’s bike. 😊 ☹. She’s never shied away from showing Daryl affection in the past. Pre the Prison falling. She’s been more reticent and careful since then unless they’ve embraced. Then she’s clung to him like a lifeline she never wants to let go of. The way she fusses over him and his poncho seems domestic AF and like something a wife would do. Plus, it’s giving her a reason not to look directly into his eyes because she doesn’t want to risk falling apart like she did a little bit at the riverside. Honestly it feels like she’s trying desperately not to ask him to stay. With her.

· Daryl telling Carol he loves her is a huge deal. HUGE. Carol saying it back to him is just as big because Lizzie is the only person we’ve ever heard her say it to. And look. I think she is trying to inject some lightness into a heavy moment because despite what she said to him while they were sitting on that bench? She doesn’t want him to go. He doesn’t want to leave her. He looks like he wants to change her mind before he rides off. She wants to make it easier for him and I want to die.

· I don’t think anything will ever hurt me as bad as watching him ride off without her. FUCK AMC for that. Because it didn’t have to be that way, solo spinoff or not. They could have still left together. They could have shared those “I love you’s” and a kiss 12 years in the making. If this episode wasn’t a springboard for the spinoffs like Gimple claimed it wasn’t? Why not give us and them the whole enchilada? It’s been more than earned. They could have gone all in on them, finally made clear that they were IN LOVE, had them leave TOGETHER, and then cut to a shot where Daryl wakes up somewhere by himself and calls out her name or vice versa. Same result. Still painful AF to think of them spending any time apart. But not without hope because they weren’t separated willingly or by some asinine reason that wasn’t even explicitly spoken. But I guess we all know why AMC didn’t do that, don’t we?

· UGGGGGGHHHHHHHH.

· I’m not going to say too much about that coda. It was bad. The clips of dearly departed characters, though. The clips of all the people they and we loved and them saying “we’re the ones that live”? Those parts struck a chord and made my heart swell with remembered love for this show. They’re the parts that gave me chills. The other parts were dramatic but meh. Otherwise, I think having Rick’s voice crackle over a walkie talkie or just getting a glimpse of his silhouette or even having him wake up in a hospital bed again a la the very first episode would have been much more effective and not locked them into anything so far as the spinoff goes or given too much away. But that’s just me. Your mileage may very well vary. I did find it fitting it ending with that shot of Judith and RJ. So there’s that.

· Anywho. Those are just some of my thoughts and there’s a lot of them but this is just the tip of the iceberg. I won’t bore you with anymore tonight, lol. Er, this morning. Happy Thanksgiving, lovelies. I’m headed to catch a few hours’ sleep.

#The Walking Dead #Season 11 spoilers #Series Finale spoilers #things that make me cry #for reasons #my heart

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ivegotalongmemory · 1 year

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twd 11x19 thoughts but this time i have 3 episodes to catch up on (spoilers!):

-i saw that this one was called variant so I BETTER be seeing something crazy in the next 40 minutes

-daryl coming to drag eugene out of there aw<3 I feel like we deserve more scenes of them

-something so satisfying about seeing Sebastian dead xoxox

-award for most "done with everything" face goes to rosita I think. Ezekiel and princess in at a close second

-i need a jerry in my life to feed me this positivity all the time (and fettuccine!) AARON STOP RUINING JERRYS POSITIVITY

-i would sign up for an hour of rosita being fed up with everyone, she's just so funny for some reason (have I made it obvious enough yet that she's my girl crush)

-why do I have a feeling that eugene is just gonna turn himself in anyway

-i just know Jerry is thinking "fuck u guys I told u we shouldn't take the wagon off the road"

-pamela stop petting ur sons corpse

-"what's the point of this place if a good man is put to death" might just end up being quote of the episode i think

-aaron talking about Eric bye I am going to cry

-THE WALKER HAND???

-eugene trying to fight daryl is genuinely the funniest thing that has ever happened on this show

-i want eugene to think highly of himself just for once

-oh i honestly forgot lance was still existing

-hes such a pathetic little man I hope he picks the wrong hand so that he dies

-ffs nevermind

-princess is legit gonna make me cry with this story

-also I cheer everytime someone gets to say fuck in this show

-mercer been looking like a lil kicked puppy all episode

-also I'm so invested in this mercer and princess romance which is really saying something because I usually don't care about any twd couples very much but God Angela Kang please let them have a happy ending

-the walker grabbing the stick wtf?????

-jerry is literally slaying though

-u guys don't understand how excited I was to find out they were gonna introduce variant walkers but I so wish they would have done this a lot sooner because they could have done so much with this if they didn't leave it until the last few episodes to do it, like yes pls give me walkers that can open doors and shit that makes them an actual threat

-holy shit it climbed

-okay Lydia and elijah I see u being a couple of cuties

-stop it this eugene and rosita scene is making me emotional and why do I get the feeling this is gonna be the last time they see each other, it better not be

-ALSO WHAT THE FUCK?? WHO IS GOING AFTER ROSITA LEAVE MY GIRL ALONE

-anyway that was a rollercoaster

-also they better not have only included the variant walkers for this one episode and then forget about them, I want more!

#the walking dead #twd #twd spoilers #the walking dead spoilers #twd season 11 #11x19 #the walking dead season 11

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carylmeanslove · 2 years

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I wonder how Rayon is taking of all this. We need you now more than ever before, Rayon.

#Rayonisrayon #Caryl #Melissa McBride deserved better #Carol Peletier deserved better #Angela Kang deserved better #Caryl deserved better #Daryl Dixon deserved better #Daryl needs Carol

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bringmecoffeeandroses · 5 years

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Has anyone done this yet?

#I'm feeling bitter and weepy tonight #let's meme #desus #jaaron #jaaryl #paul rovia #paul jesus rovia #tom payne #angela kang #twd #twd writers #bury your gays #paul rovia deserves better 2k18 #Tom Payne also deserves better #the walking dead #walking dead

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my-mt-heart · 2 years

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It’s the end of our first blitz. We tried to get Caryl Spinoff trending and in an ironic turn of events, these two things happened.

I could not be more fucking proud of the Caryl community right now. Excuse me while I go cry.

#caryl #caryl deserved better #carol peletier deserved better #carol peletier #melissa mcbride #melissa deserved better #darylneedscarol #lookattheflowersamc #weaintashescollective #angela kang deserved better

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lola-andheruniverse · 10 months

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it wasn't the plan all along

it was HER FUCKING SHOW and she was pushed out of the door so your favorite man-child could shine like a Marvel super hero

guess what

everyone and their dog are tired of the Marvel bullshit and the never ending bickering between a woman who's reduced to be a forever angry widow and a rapist villain who sometimes decides to play the family man part

that's why you need to trash a female co-worker who is not only talented but kind-hearted

so you can get headlines and an audience for your already tired show

also, stop defending your buddie, he talks enough shit for both of you

ffs shut the fuck up

#caryl #melissa mcbride deserves better #im so tired of this shit #man really can be the worse #also #angela kang deserves better #amc hate

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clairebearhq · 5 years

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@ivebeenmade @lflssfrghtnng my take on this season.

#paul rovia #paul rovia deserved better #anti season 9 #anti walking dead #anti Angela Kang

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haircoveredwriter · 2 years

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Hmm if you were to put money on it, would you say the reunion that’s described as “mini” by one reviewer and “satisfying” by another reviewer a Caryl or a d0nnie? I’d say even if it’s a d0nnie reunion, it doesn’t change Caryl or that we have a spin-off, I ain’t stressing too much, but I am curious!

This question has already been answered by myself as well as many other lovely carylers such as @my-mt-heart & @gunmetal-ring, so I’ll add a bit to what’s already been said but then I think I’m going to classify this as finished.

Point of fact, the reunion in 11x09 was always going to have some sort of Donn*e interaction. Hold up don’t come at me yet before you hear me out. We’re probably going to get a whole mashup reunion between Daryl+the Grimes kiddos, Daryl+Carol, Daryl+Kelly/Jerry/Rosita/whoever at ASZ comes outside, and yes Daryl+Conn*e. For me the latter’s interaction will once again confirm them as “friends/family” and the main take away from it will be the end to this drawn out cave arc and Carol’s self torture.

I fully expect we’ll see either Conn*e or Kelly voice out loud how Carol was the one who found her, along with Kelly bringing up how Carol never stopped looking given her past with Daryl searching (for a brief episode to 1.5 lol). After we’ll of course get another one of those loaded Caryl glances to speak volumes without ever saying a word, but they better fucking talk about stuff eventually because damn it we’re living through a pandemic, Angela…we deserve something good!

In reality though there isn’t going to be time for a grand reunion of Daryl melting into Conn*e’s arms with tears in his eyes or to follow her around like a lost puppy watching a T-bone steak days after the fact. He won’t dive back in for a second helping of a hug just to have more physical contact with her that his body craves down to its very being. There’s a strict timeline Kang has created for episode 9 where there’s no wiggle room for anything unnecessary. In 40-something minutes we have to; finish this God-awful Reaper battle and arc, send Leah off on her much needed trip down the river Styx, finish the storm/walker break in at ASZ including saving the littles from the flooded basement, HAVE ALL THE REUNIONS when Maggie and co get back, have the Commonwealth show up (cue this drama), have TF decide they’re going to the CW and potentially inner turmoil between some characters about not wanting to go/being allowed to go (I’m looking at you Negan), and finished off by a few week time jump once we get to 11x10.

Needless to say, this “satisfying” will be “mini”. Caryl on, y’all❤️

#caryl #caryl positivity #carol peletier #daryl dixon #carol and daryl #caryl speculation #caryl is endgame #please stop believing the overhype #I’m calling this topic done and dusted

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thewalkingdead-imagines · 2 years

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nah cause at some point i got v hopeful and started thinking that we’ll laugh about it later 💀💃🏻

also, same here, i thought that after daryl/leah and how everyone reacted to it, that they probably wouldn’t repeat it..but it seems like the right move in their heads was to rush things again instead of writing something better (esp since its the last season like hello??)

idk at this point lol

Me too, I wanted this to be some false dumb rumor as well and just end up laughing about it but oh well, here we are 🙃

Yeah exactly, I hadn’t seen such a big backlash against a storyline since Carl’s death, so I really hoped they’d get that this isn’t the way to do things. Especially, as you said, since it’s the last season. They don’t have much time, I get that, but I know for sure that

1. They could’ve cut so many unnecessary things to get more time (technically, they could’ve left out the entire reaper arc to make room for the Commonwealth arc, the cancellation for more seasons happened far before the extra episodes that first mention them were written and aired)

2. There are still more complex and creative ways to solve these plots without directly pressing a random new and entirely rushed (+ entirely out of character) relationship into the show. This counts for both Daryl/Leah and Negan/Annie. TWD used to be so good at doing this, I always loved how they refrained from throwing random love interests at main characters just to make a certain plot work and now they’ve done an entire 180 degree turn on this which really disappoints me.

And lastly, if a plot doesn’t work without entirely changing the essence of a character and their whole story so far, that’s a major sign that you should just cut the plot and start over.

But I feel like this is another desperate attempt to create some weird tension between Negan and Maggie, and they’re so set on this that they change Negan’s entire character and arc for it. Like…just let it rest. I’m not a fan of Maggie but both her and Negan as characters deserve to step away from this season(s) long conflict and evolve separately past that. I know that Angela Kang said that they’re her favorite duo and holy fuck, it shows, she forces those two characters together even though everything speaks against it.

Idk what to think anymore either, I’m mainly just disappointed and frustrated right now. Mainly of course regarding what they do to Negan, but also about the way they rush and handle the rest.

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shimmershae · 3 years

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Okay. So I did one of these wish lists last season and got gifted way more than I ever could have anticipated so I thought why not do it again?

Shae’s wish list for Season 11.

Putting it under a cut because it’s long and rambling. And it will probably be revised and/or added to whenever the mood strikes me.

Things I want to see in Season 11:

The actual episode. Why the hell does everything have to be so dark in the literal sense?

Carol and Daryl to have an epic reunion that will totally blow the reunion in the woods outside of Terminus out of the water. C’mon. It really feels like the stage is being set for it and you know Angela loves her callbacks. What better moment to revisit than this one? The one where we all just knew these two were embarking on something new (only they didn’t, not in the way we’d hoped)? Like, it’s a seemingly insurmountable task but I know Norman and Melissa have it in them again. The real question is: do the writers?

Judith and RJ bonding with Aunt Carol and her telling them stories of the old days and all the people they didn’t get to meet. What better way to foster our nostalgia and make us remember why we fell in love with this show and its characters in the first place?

More Carol and Dog because those scenes in Diverged were the epitome of precious.

More Princess. Princess’s “meet and greets” with all our community members, yes. But Princess’s first meeting and assessment of Carol and Daryl. Methinks she’d have something mighty interesting and enlightening to say.

All this angst for Daryl and Carol eventually building to a head and Kang finally delivering on that “heart to heart” she mentioned what feels like a million and one years ago.

Aaron and Gracie scenes because Aaron is such a good daddy, ya’ll.

Rosita continuing to have significant screen time and not having to step back into the shadows just because Maggie is back.

Speaking of, I’m glad Maggie is back. I really am. For the simple fact that Baby Hershel is the cutest alone. But I’m not happy that everybody so far seems so ready to just defer to her when they’ve been perfectly fine making it without her. That is not okay and that shit needs to stop soon-ish.

Hershel making fast friends with Judith and RJ and Gracie and all the Jabila kids. They’re the next generation, ya’ll. I just really need this.

More Jerry and Nabila, please. Because I have a special soft spot for my Jabila.

Jerry and Ezekiel scenes. Because Jerry is Ezekiel’s person and the truest bond he has on the show.

Kelly and Lydia striking up a friendship because Kelly’s a sweet cinnamon roll and Lydia is in desperate need of friends.

More scenes of Lydia, period, and not just her seeking out Negan because they both feel like outcasts. Lydia was raised in Hell. Negan wreaked Hell. It’s different and I don’t appreciate the heavy-handedness of Angela trying to make Negan into something he has no right to be. Leave him at an antihero if you must persist but stop trying to convince us he’s earned his place as a good guy because he hasn’t. JDM may have risen to the challenge of making him a much more compelling, shades of gray character these past two seasons, but Negan is still the guy that gleefully bashed Glenn’s head in with a barb-wire wrapped baseball bat and if he’s not going to show remorse about it? The least he can do is show the common sense not to go out of his way to antagonize Maggie.

Kelly reuniting with Connie and Carol getting to have a hand in doing in. Some acknowledgment from Connie that she chose to go back into the cave with Magna would be nice but ultimately not necessary because I don’t think Connie blames Carol at all.

Dog surviving the season unscathed and getting all the cuddles he deserves.

The not-so-rosy truth about Leah being exposed and Daryl making his choice clear once and for all. Spoiler alert? Leah doesn’t even rank.

I’d love the fake dating/fake marriage trope to be trotted out at the good old Commonwealth with Carol and Daryl because I think it would be so much freaking fun and hey. If Kang is going to continue to give us fanfic (unknown child, a la Rick and Michonne), why not try out a true blue?

Some freaking clue as to why/how Rosita and Father Gabe hooked up. Like I just don’t get it, especially when you consider Siddiq was RIGHT THERE. The amount of distrust Rosita and the rest of Team Family had in him back in the early days of their arriving in Alexandria. I just find it hard to wrap my mind around this relationship when it wasn’t even on the radar pre-time jump.

That said, Father Gabe did have a great scene with Judith in (what was then) the Season Finale where he gave her a message for Rosita and I did find it touching. So I dunno, ya’ll. I could be persuaded. But not all that easily.

Some resolution to the whole Virgil thing. Talk about your random characters in the right place at the right/wrong time. Him promising his wife flowers every day touched me but come the fuck on.

More Carol and Lydia scenes and more Carol and Kelly scenes because Carol with these young ladies gives me life. You know what? Carol getting to interact with and have friendship with any and all of the ladies gives me life and should be a regular thing. Like TPTB missed the opportunity of a lifetime having Carol and Michonne sharing all kinds of bonding scenes. It would have been so poignant to watch them relate to each other over their lost children.

Can we please get some Commonwealth scenes where the kids of Alexandria learn how to be actual kids? I mean, not that they aren’t already, but I’d love to see them have the chance to be carefree and have fun. You know, though, that Jude is definitely going to be a tough little nut to crack, and she’s always going to be keeping one eye open for trouble.

Speaking of Commonwealth, I’d love to see all our faves dolled up, lol. Yes, it’s a rather shallow wish, but can you imagine Carol in a simple but beautiful dress and Daryl utterly tongue-tied to the point that the kids--Lydia, Judith, and RJ--just start giggling uncontrollably and Carol and Daryl both blush? Because I can and it is glorious.

Let the villains villain. Not everyone needs to be redeemed. Some people are just too far gone.

You know what? It’s past time to let Carol in particular unpack some of her trauma and cast it aside so she can move on that future Daryl keeps reminding her they have. She and Daryl are way overdue for a heart to heart where she just opens up a vein and lets it all flow. It’s the only way she’s going to be able to heal and move on, IMHO.

Some indication that Rick and Michonne and the Grimes babies and the rest of their family (Carol, Daryl, etc.) are going to be reunited.

The promise of at least a chance of a happy ending for everyone we’ve watched and loved these last 10+ years.

There’s more. There’s always more, lol. But that’s enough for now. As I think of things I just really, really need to see? I’ll come back to this list. Because hey. Like I said. I did one of these for Season 10 and I got way more of them than I ever could have anticipated so.

#The Walking Dead #Season 11 hopes and wishes and dreams #Caryl #Carol x Daryl #Carol Peletier #Daryl Dixon #really all of our faves #I want this season to be so emotionally satisfying #not devastating #sometimes those two things can be one and the same #sometimes nah #things that make me smile and cry #for reasons

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twdmusicboxmystery · 3 years

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11x02: Acheron, Part 2 - Analysis

Okay, let’s talk 11x02. And 11x01. Because it’s a two-part episode, it’s important to consider them together. I have a LOT to say about what’s going on in these two episodes, so I’ll have plenty to post all week. Let’s dive in!

***As always, spoilers abound below for TWD 11x02. Don’t read until you’ve watched! You’ve been warned!***

Maggie

The first thing we see is a point of view from under the train car. The instant I saw that, I knew how things would go. I never thought Maggie would die (if nothing else, there are scenes with her in the trailer we haven’t seen yet) but I was curious as to how she would survive. When I saw this POV, I knew she’d end up crawling under the train. Just as Glenn crawled under the dumpster. Massive parallels to Glenn. Which by extension, massive parallels to Beth. Major resurrection theme.

It's also important that when she reappears, she comes from underneath the car. Obviously, that’s logical given that she crawled underneath the car, but they make a point of asking if the pounding is coming from the roof. Gabriel says no and then they open the bottom hatch for her. Her coming up from the ground like that is a visual representation of a resurrection.

So we see Gabriel, Negan and the others enter the train car. The spatial details here are important, and I had to watch the episode twice to get them all straight. It’s a little confusing the first time. So, the group jumps down into the train car through a hatch in the roof because they couldn’t get the door open in the last episode. The thing is, if you watch closely, you come to realize they’re not in the train car on the end. They must have walked along the roof for two or three cars before finding a hatch that let them in.

So, when Gauge shows up, he comes behind them, and that confused me because I was thinking they came from that direction. And they did, but they entered through the roof, not the door. Anyway, they can’t get the door open. So honestly, even if they’d tried harder, I’m not sure they could have saved him.

This scene accomplished a lot of things, character-wise, that we need to touch on. It’s important to note that Gauge’s death happened due to his own choices. Does that mean he “deserved” to die or that they shouldn’t have tried to save him if they could have? Of course not. No on both counts. But that doesn’t change the fact that his choices sealed his fate.

It's especially interesting that he called Maggie a Liar. Not only is that a throwback to the Governor, but it’s a particular type of mentality they’re showing here. Even the fact that he didn’t shut the door behind him is really interesting. My first thought was to be annoyed with him. Why WOULDN’T you shut the door. You live in this world. You know better. But it’s all ego. He can’t imagine something bad will happen. He just assumes if it does, someone will save him.

But the most telling thing was how angry he got before saying Liar. It just shows very much how he approaches life. When he messes up, he doesn’t feel bad, and accept that it was his fault, and try to learn from it. No, instead he gets pissed and blames everyone but himself and his own actions.

If this had been Daryl or Gabriel or Alden or any of our other heroes, they would have recognized that opening the door would have gotten their friends and family killed and would have sacrificed themselves. Especially if they realized they’d screwed up. But Gauge became angry and defiant, even killing himself.

Anyway, I’m rambling. This really has nothing to do with Beth or TD other than perhaps being a future template for something. But I thought it was a really fascinating character sketch.

The thing is, this isn’t really a matter of Gauge being wrong and everyone else being right.

Maggie is…not doing so well either. As I told my fellow theorists, Paola Lazaro said in TTD last week that Maggie was kind of off the rails. I think she said that a little prematurely, because we really didn’t understand Maggie’s state of mind just by watching 10x17 and 11x01.

It's not until she tells that messed up story about the house she found and the people in it that we understand that her state of mind really isn’t at its healthiest. Even saying she wanted to kill Negan before is…understandable given their past. But it makes more sense now why Negan is so nervous. He’s sensing her state of mind that her moral conscience isn’t as strong as it once was, so of course he’s fearful for his life.

I don’t know where they’re going with this Maggie story line, but I have a feeling this attitude of hers will cause conflict down the road. Several of my fellow theorists believe it will cause a rift between her and Daryl. And we can see that somewhat through Alden. At first, he was very much defending Maggie, especially against Negan. He has a lot of loyalty to her. But he didn’t like her abandoning Gauge, and you can see his loyalties starting to waver.

At the very least, what she said about not feeling anything about it is the opposite of what Beth always stood for. Daryl was trying hard not to feel things during Still, in the wake of the prison going down. She made him feel things because that’s the only way a person is truly living, rather than just surviving. Now Maggie is in that state of mind.

And I’m gonna argue that makes it a prime time for Beth to return to help her. But of course I’m completely objective over here. ;D

Maggie’s Story:

Maggie’s story was definitely dark and horrible, but interesting to analyze. I’m assuming there was cannibalism going on there. That’s why the missing limbs. The men in the house were eating the female prisoners. No only a callback to Terminus, but remember that Bob’s leg was taken for food, so I’m sure that’s what we’re supposed to infer here.

She talked about no eyes, no tongue, no limbs, vocal cords ripped out. So definitely the see no evil, speak no evil themes. With the limbs, it’s also a matter of not being able to escape or save themselves.

In terms of the plot, I do have one question about this that I think may be significant. Maggie first talks about three deformed people (she says, “I wouldn’t call them men”) coming toward her. She kills them, and only after that hears the noise from the attic.

My question is, why were they deformed? If they’re “men,” then they must be at least Maggie’s age, if not older, which means they’ve been around since before the apocalypse began. Even eating human flesh doesn’t cause one to become deformed, so why the deformities? I have no idea, but I wondered if there is a radiation theme going on here. Something they’re hinting at, but not saying. Just thought that was intriguing.

After that, things go sideways and everyone almost dies until Daryl arrives to save the day. So, let’s skip to his story.

Daryl:

We first see him bust through a wall with Dog. So, dog took off in the last episode, but the first time we see Daryl, he’s already found Dog again. At least, the first time. This is where he sees the murals on the wall, the walker with the handcuff and the suitcase of money, etc. I already talked about most of that in great detail HERE, so I won’t rehash it, though it’s very important.

One thing I will say about the mural is that thematically, it’s a match to Still. So, in the golf club, we had lots of rich people who clearly hid there when the world first went bad. And I don’t remember this particularly, but several of my fellow theorists have told me they remember the TTD after Still and that the writers talked about how the golf club was a statement about the class system. You have these very rich people, but their wealth couldn’t save them. Death, walkers, the apocalypse…none of these things discriminate based on wealth or position.

On the wall, we see people with crowns standing at the top, but below, they are homeless, and one of them is being attacked and torn apart. Meanwhile, Daryl sees a line of text that says, “it comes for us all,” probably meaning death.

Well, guess what? Angela Kang, in talking about the murals, said that this, too, was a statement about the class system. So thematically, this is meant to be a parallel to Still.

It’s just interesting to contemplate because if you think about it, most of our heros—Rick, Daryl, the Greene family, etc—weren’t at all wealthy. Rick was humble and well-grounded. Hershel worked hard his whole life and never had any glory or fanfare. And then there’s Daryl, who was “nothing. No one.” They all survived.

So of course it’s a socioeconomic statement, but it’s also one about mindset. It takes not only grit to survive this world, but a certain amount of humility. Ego always gets you killed eventually, as it did with Gauge.

I’ll also mention that I thought the guy with the crown who was being torn apart was being set upon by walkers, but AK says they’re specifically not walkers. They’re people.

So, it’s not a coincidence that we see this juxtaposed with the Gauge situation. His ego gets him killed and we literally see him being torn apart because of it.

Moving on.

Daryl finds a bag with a $100 bill with a letter written on it. This is a massive TD clue from start to finish. 100 is an important number. The hundred dollar bill features Benjamin Franklin on the front and Independence Hall on the back. Look either of those up and you’ll find lots of fun parallels we could point to. I won’t go into all that today except to say it’s definitely part of the Revolution theme.

This is what’s written on the bill Daryl finds:

“Dear Dad, you always said if you don’t come back in a week to move on. Mom didn’t listen and went looking. It’s been three weeks, so we’re going next. I’ll watch Jesse and turn on the radio every day at 10. See you both soon. Love Tom and Jesse.”

He also finds a picture of two kids. So, the “three weeks” jumps out because of Rick’s line in 5x10, “it’s been three weeks since Atlanta.” It’s also about missing family members, going searching for them, etc. Possibly important that the mom is also missing. I can’t help but think of the song from Still. “Our mother has been absent, every since we founded Rome…”

There is a 10 in there, which is an important number. The turning the radio on every day is both the radio/airwaves theme (also a line from the song) but a callback to Rick and Morgan and their walkie talkies. So, really interesting symbols here.

The two kids immediately reminded me of Noah’s twin brothers. I don’t think these two are supposed to be twins. I’m assuming the brother is older. But still obviously siblings. And it hearkens back to the last episode Beth was technically in. Which also had a lot of the CRM/Revolution theme in it. (X, X).

AK says this family probably didn’t make it, so I’m not expecting these kids to show up in the narrative. But it’s also important to note that the little girl is carrying the toy rabbit Maggie found earlier. So the rabbit also ties into all this symbolism. (P.S. I didn’t get to my rabbit post last week. I planned on it, but time got away from me. I should get it posted later this week.)

So, this is massive in terms of TD symbolism. I’ll talk about it fits into the bigger narrative in a minute.

Then Daryl kills the sleeping bag walker. I wasn’t sure the significance of this at first, but I think it ties to the tents and sleeping bags we saw in Atlanta in 5x06, Consumed. Daryl and Carol passed them while looking for Beth. So, this just shows us that this is tied to her storyline and Daryl searching for her.

You could also argue that the walker was “hidden” at first, and it’s significant that Dog found it/realized it was there before Daryl did.

The other thing is that as he’s looking at the sleeping bag walker, there’s a random shoe on the ground next to it. Missing Shoe/Foot theory, which is also indicative of Beth.

They hear another roaring sound and Dog takes off, running into the dark tunnel.

Here’s the thing. I think most people will assume the roar he heard was just more air being forced through the tunnels by the storm, as Alden explained it in ep 1. But I always watch with the subtitles on and I noticed at this part, the subtitles said, “Man Roaring.” So they actually did hear someone screaming. And that’s probably why Dog ran toward it.

After watching it again, I realized it’s probably supposed to be Roy. He’s the white-haired guy, played by C. Thomas Howell, who Daryl finds wounded after he emerges from the Tunnel. I think whatever happened to him when he went topside but then got attacked by walkers is what Dog heard and went running toward.

Maybe not terribly significant in the plot, but it’s important symbolically. Because once again we have something Daryl hears from a distance but doesn’t see. Dog (a proxy for Beth) runs toward it, and Daryl follows. When he does, he find someone who had previously separated from the group. They’re hurt, but alive. See the parallels?

I will say the Roy situation confuses me just a little. He’s clearly hurt, and when Daryl tries to bandage him, he refuses, saying, “just tell my kids I didn’t die a coward.” But then later he’s with the group, all bandaged up, and seems to be okay. (He dies when they reach the Reapers by taking an arrow to the head, so he still dies overall.) But it’s just weird that it seemed he would die, then seemed he was fine again.

It may well be something that foreshadows a future situation, and that’s why it’s not making tons of sense right now. Only time will tell.

Anyway, I kind of glossed over Daryl crawling through the dark tunnel. I don’t have much else to say about it except that it’s a SUPER potent symbol for Beth’s arc and very important that he emerges on the other side and finds this person. Annnd then goes to save TF. (Dark Tunnel Symbolism).

So, he hears the gunshots and finds the train they’re on. He comes up behind the walkers attacking them from the front, kills them, moves the bench blocking the door, and lets everyone through. Then he uses a grenade to blow up all the walkers. (Ew.)

After that they all get out of the tunnels and go topside. The next scene is also super important. We see the stars above. That’s partly to show that the storm has passed now, but also constellations = Sirius.

Maggie asks what he has and he tells her about it. There is one weird moment in this scene. When she tells them about the supply depot she wants to stop at, she says Georgie (from S8) set it up for emergencies, for people on the outside to use. When it says this, the camera focuses on Daryl for a LONG moment, and he looks almost sad. I’m not sure what they’re trying to tell us there.

Anyway, they all head out. Unfortunately, when they reach the right neighborhood, the Reapers are there to meet/kill them. And Roy is the first to go.

So, a couple of things here. I’ll probably do a details post because I’m leaving out MOST of the background details throughout the episode, and there are a lot of them. Lots of details to be gleaned in this scene.

But the second time I watched it, I was struck by the people hanging upside down. Obviously a grim sight, but it occurred to me that these people hanging this way look a LOT like the deer diagrams from Scars. Let me show you some pictures:

Top pick is 11x02. Middle and bottom one are from Scars.

See what I mean? So, chances are something about Scars foreshadowed the Reapers, which is interesting. They clearly see human beings in a certain way (as animals to be strung up and…perhaps eaten?) And that makes me think that what Maggie found in that house may tie into the Reapers as well. Just kind of interesting foreshadows of coming plots.

Eugene:

Let’s talk Eugene and then I’ll shut up for today. Eugene’s stuff was very intriguing. First thing you need to know. And understand, I didn’t know this. @wdway pointed it out. Some months ago, the actress cast as “Stephanie” was announced. This is her:

And that’s clearly not the woman who steps into the train car at the end. Which means this isn’t really Stephanie. She’s a decoy. In fact, the actress from this episode is billed on IMDb as “woman 2,” not as “Stephanie.”

Knowing that, if you go back and re-watch the parts with Eugene’s group, they mean something very different.

On the surface, it seems that Zeke, Yumiko and Princess are taken away in a sinister fashion. Then Eugene melts down and tells his story. (Note: while he focuses on his feelings for Stephanie and I think most of that is true, he still says he lied both to her and to his friends about being from a large settlement. So, he’s still keeping large chunks of the truth from them.)

Again, on the surface it seems that they accept his explanation and just decide to allow them all in. All the stuff with the other three is just a misunderstanding.

But if “Stephanie” is a decoy, that can’t possibly be the case. I think Zeke and the others told Eugene the truth as they know it, but they’re all still being manipulated.

After Princess left to pee, the guy told Eugene no one was in the room and acted like he had no idea who Princess was. They were definitely using psychological torture on him, trying to break him.

I think they know very well that Eugene's group is still lying about their settlement, and they're using a decoy "Stephanie" to find out the truth.

My point is that it goes back to the hallucination, making-someone-think-they're-crazy theme. It will be really interesting to see how this unfolds, because there's all kinds of psychological shenanigans going on here.

@galadrieljones made a really interesting connection some time ago. She noticed that back in 10x18, at Leah’s cabin, there is a metal, heart-shaped chair. The same chairs show up in the Commonwealth’s sales video from the trailer. So there’s some kind of link between Leah, Daryl’s memory of her, and the Commonwealth. We don’t know what it is yet, but all of this gives credence to the idea that she is either an outright hallucination, or Daryl is just remembering things wrong.

It also might mean that the Reapers are connected to the Commonwealth in some way. We don’t really know yet, but I’m having tons of fun trying to figure it out.

I want to touch briefly on the train car theme. Once again, there’s a parallel in both story lines (Terminus, and this one at the Commonwealth). Daryl’s group is in train cars this episode. And while Eugene’s group has been at a different compound, they started in the train yard and end in it here. But what I noticed is that Eugene enters the train car at the end, which is furnished inside, and finds his friends there. They all have a happy reunion.

It made me think of the fact that when Rick, Daryl, Michonne, and Carl enter the train cars at Terminus, there is also a family reunion. What happened beyond that was not good or easy. Clearly, Terminus was not a good place. Many of them almost died at the trough and they had to fight their way out through a walker blood bath.

I’m just saying that, while it obviously won’t play out exactly the same way, something similar is probably waiting for Eugene’s group outside that train car. Not good.

Acheron Overall:

Okay, let’s get to the big cheese, here. The overall narrative. The template.

These two episodes are called Acheron part 1 and part 2. So here’s the skinny:

Acheron = Underworld. Daryl’s group going into the subway tunnels (dark, underground) is what constitutes Acheron and why the episodes are called that. That’s why, at the end of this episode, they emerge from the tunnels onto the surface (i.e. the living world).

Given all the death, cemetery, and dark tunnel symbolism around Beth, given that she ventured into the land of the dead by being shot, maybe clinically dying for a time, and being thought dead for so long, what this tells me is that everything that happens in these tunnels is a foreshadow and template for what will happen this season.

I maintain that Dog = Beth and we will soon see something where Daryl hears something (not necessarily her; it was a man screaming so I still think it will be Rick he hears word of) and goes chasing after it. While searching for it, he stumbles across Beth. Then the two of them (both Dog and Daryl returned to the train car) go back in time to save TF from something.

This is most likely why the Roy thing is weird. In a super understated way, he represents Rick in the template. Daryl will find him, but only after he finds Beth. Even consider what Roy says. He says, “tell my kids I didn’t die a coward.” And that’s all well and good, but did we even know Roy had kids? No. Have we met them? No. But who has kids that Daryl IS concerned with? That would be Rick.

So I’m thinking that maybe when Daryl finds Rick, Rick will think he’s dying for some reason, and that’s why the dialogue here. But he won’t, which is why we see Roy with the group later.

And no, I’m not thinking that Roy dying via the Reapers will extend to Rick. It’s more like what they’ve done with countless characters that have been Beth proxies. Eventually, they kill them off. He’s a minor character they were using as a proxy, and when they are done with him in the narrative, he becomes walker chow. Or, in this case, Reaper fodder.

Anyway, I think everything will end up being a foreshadow for something. Maggie and Negan. The Gauge situation. All of it. I’ll try to keep coming back to this as the story progresses to show what everything foreshadows. I’ll stop there for today.

#beth greene #beth greene lives #beth is alive #beth is coming #td theory #td theories #team delusional #team defiance #beth is almost here #bethyl

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