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skimblyshanks · 3 years

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Negativity and me rambling about discoursey topics below the cut. feel free to keep scrolling. Actually, I encourage it ilaushdfhasd Have a great day!

I want to talk bluntly here.

I know I probably come off like a jackass nowadays, and I don’t want to, but at the end of the day there’s a group of ppl who are going to continue spreading lies about people based on what they ship, how they read characters, or literally anything that they disagree on, and they don’t listen when you try and explain anything.

so I’m kinda tired and grumpy and I genuinely try not to address it because I know no one who i want to get through to will listen, but also I feel like if I don’t just make a big old post whining about it there will probably be more of those small, whinier posts that I delete after an hour or so. But anyway. People are going to call me and my friemds horrible things, and they’re not going to listen if we try and defend ourselves. Which. Old news. Already found that out last July-August.

Guess what? I was here last year. I missed most of the first drama of the year, that being Kittencourse 1.0, but I was dragged along for the ride every other time. And it was anti-shippers starting those dramas, every time. I probably wouldn’t have lebelled myself as anything if not for the fact that for half a year bullies were throwing around their weight and justifying it by being antis, even when their opponents were doing nothing wrong.

I was here when someone was harassed for months over a fanfiction. this person wasn’t some huge presence in the fandom; the fanfic wasn’t some bastion of the fandom. I don’t think most of us knew either person or fic until antis decided it would be fun to fuck with the account for months on end.

I began identifying as pro ship because at least the pro shippers didn’t seem to be going out of their way to be nasty.

You know the funny thing? For a long while the most problematic thing I shipped was Tugger shanks. Even now, the most problematic thing I ship is Munku pounce, which I will not hesitate to tell you is a comfort ship, as pounce is one of my comfort characters. Any other ship is between kittens and those in the nebulous young adult range, which doesn’t seem to match the Anti Council’s definition of problematic, given many of them had no issue following a blog openly labelling itself as pro ship when the spiciest ship was Pounce/Plato.

And that’s the other thing. I’ve been very open on this blog about being pro ship.

Every time I got a wave of followers who seemed v likely to be anti-shippers, I reblogged posts explaining my stance and hopefully making it clear that I was pro ship. Regardless, I ended up having these followers for months; I didn’t block them bc many of them didn’t make it clear either way what they felt, so I dared to assume they were alright following a pro shipper. Then of course a few months later: a pro ship DNI, maybe some soapboxing, and more than once this has been while they are still following me.

And the fact is, it doesn’t matter what I try to explain.

It doesn’t matter how many posts I reblog trying to explain what it means when I use the term pro ship.

It doesn’t matter if I say that incest ships aren’t really it for me.

It doesn’t matter if I say the kittens are not young children to me.

It wouldn’t matter if I compiled every instance of kitten characters being provocative or taking part in sexually charged numbers.

It doesn’t matter that what we’re talking about here are fictional anthro cats played by adults.

It doesn’t matter because antis have already made up their mind and don’t want to hear otherwise.

It wouldn’t help if I changed labels because the label isn’t the issue, it’s the opposition to antis and their mentality. If I changed labels, they’d simply transfer the baggage they’ve given pro ship onto whatever I had chosen instead.

And I don’t think there’s going to be a middle ground reached because both sides are coming at media differently.

Yes, Pro shippers are alright with people having ships between characters who are related, ships with large age gaps, and, yes, even ships between adult characters and child characters. Because this is fiction we’re talking about. No one real is being harmed by this ship existing. The threat of grooming with these ships exists for all ships, all fandoms, all pieces of media, and all things that can be used to gain a victim’s trust.

Also, you don’t know why anyone ships what they do. You don’t know why anyone has the headcanons they do. I think it’s well-documented by now that there are survivors on all sides of this discourse, so that much should be clear. Telling those who do use these more controversial ships or headcanons to cope that they ought to be doing it in private is not only callous but disingenuine, as antis have, multiple times, gone into private spaces and leaked all content thereof so they could call out those within the group.

As it applies to this fandom, I don’t believe I’ve seen any potentially triggering ship in the main tags. Most of us who do ship controversial ships are aware people don’t like them. We provide tags to block, and of course users can be blocked as well.

Speaking of which.

I know who blocks me back. It shows a specific icon when a block is mutual. I assure you very few antis block me, even when they say they do.

Listen.

The truth is, at the end of the day, this is a blog for a musical about cats. I’ve shifted away from interacting with most users, partly so i don’t end up with more followers who end up antis, and partly so other, neutral users don’t end up catching flack for interacting with me.

And yeah, it is true that the current fandom climate is hilariously hostile to several ships that were popular for decades beforehand. It is true that antis have double standards. That their hypocrisy is easy to point out. That’s true of antis and fandoms in general.

But also. No one outside this fandom gives a shit what any of us are shipping, really. We’re all weirdos to them. The block button is right there; the filtering option is right there, Xkit and its blacklisting tool are right there. Yet there are still these dumb as shit outbursts and fearmongering and soapboxing.

And I’m Tired.

I’m tired moreso by general antidom.

There are multiple compilations of anti shippers being horrible people over ships and fiction, and sometimes even just because they think someone is a pro shipper, even if they aren’t. I’ve had many urges to link them, to share them, but often I think about the trigger warnings it would require and I lose steam; I don’t want to share that stuff with my followers.

And I’m Tired.

I’m tired that the same stupid points of drama are probably going to get resurrected again. At least this time I have most of them blocked.

But, yeah.

I’m Tired.

#fandom discourse--#discourse--#fandom drama--

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aaronr99 · 3 years

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Fandom

In this blog, I will be delving inside the world of fandom. Fandom is defined as, a group of enthusiastic fan of something or someone (Fandom definition and meaning | Collins English Dictionary, 2020). Today, social media has allowed for easy communication and connectivity between individuals. This has led to multiple rise of fandoms, spanning from sports, celebrities, movies and even tv shows. Fandom is a world-wide phenomenon, and most of us would personally know a person or two who is always crazy about something, albeit that might just even be ourselves. However, we can all agree on one thing, these fans will always go out their way to support the things they love, even if that means doing anything to not miss out on those football matches, the next album release, or recent celebrity drama.

Contrary to the negative view society holds for most fandoms today, fandoms had also shifted to using their community as a movement of activism and had proven to be a force for good. Fandoms throughout the years, in some way or another had challenged social norms, media representation, and even swayed towards pushing political agendas and social justice campaigns. For example, let’s have a look at one of the biggest fandoms we have today, the korean pop band BTS and their fans, the ARMYs. Now, I myself am not a part of this community, but since I’m an avid Twitter user, the presence of this fandom and their activities in the social media platform can’t be overlooked. In the recent months, the U.S had been preparing for their 59th presidential election, and during this period of time the ARMYs had participated in the U.S political discourse. On twitter, users were tweeting how the ARMYs had interfered with buying an amount of tickets during the Trump rally, and had decided not to show up leaving many seats empty. The supposed “prank” they pulled, had led the Trump team to believe that as many as 1 million ticket requests were received, but ultimately only 6000 attendees came. Moreover, other K-Pop (Korean Pop) fanbases had also participated in online activism, and held progressive values while doing so. The interesting part about these fandom activists is that they are not limited to their demographics and are not localized in one country. The members span across the globe, ranging from the U.S to East Asia. In the recent BlackLivesMatter movement that happened in the U.S, many of these K-pop fans had dominated social media by tweeting about the incident on twitter. As a matter of fact, a police scanner app in Dallas, Texas had been flooded with fancams after the police department requested individuals to report protest activities, thus making it difficult for the police to identify protesters. On twitter, they flooded the #BlueLivesMatter hashtags, made to combat the #BlackLivesMatter and will stray the anti-racism movement, with fancams and videos. Some of the people of the fanbase had disagreed in the way it was conducted, especially in spamming fancams, and it could’ve been used to spread more awareness about the BlackLivesMatter movement. Interestingly, the fanbase also raised about $1 million donation for the BlackLivesMatter movement, where $1 million was also donated by the BTS group themselves. In a sense, K-pop fan bases are always competing against each other, which led to a competition between the fanbase and try to outperform the other, in order to champion their favourite K-pop group. This led them to call up for charities and donations, when they see other fan bases starting their own.

Ultimately, fanbases are easy to mobilize with the existence of social media. Fan members can reach up to members around the globe if they have any intention of starting up donations, or movements. Moreover, these fans will do anything in order to put their favourite artists on the spotlight. The efforts they make in providing aid on social justice movements, or charitable efforts, is another way to increase the popularity of their favourite artists. We are in no position to say that this is a negative thing, as they are also helping in fighting for a good cause. The social media domination these fanbases holds, makes it a formidable force when it comes to spreading campaigns and messages on social media sites. Another fanbase that had turned into a force for change were the Harry Potter Alliance. This fanbase had been making charities and donations in order to provide equality for the minorities in today’s society. The Harry Potter Alliance had been fighting for gender equality, LGBTQIA+ equality, racial injustice and even climate change. The fandom also does charities to help the unfortunate, for example, after the Haiti earthquake struck in 2010, the Harry Potter Alliance had partnered with Partners In Health and successfully raised $123,000.

References

1. Time. 2020. How K-Pop Fans Actually Work As A Force For Political Activism In 2020. [online] Available at: <https://time.com/5866955/k-pop-political/> [Accessed 28 November 2020].

2. Journal.transformativeworks.org. 2020. View Of Up, Up, And Away! The Power And Potential Of Fan Activism | Transformative Works And Cultures. [online] Available at: <https://journal.transformativeworks.org/index.php/twc/article/view/435/305> [Accessed 28 November 2020].

3. Wikiwand. 2020. Harry Potter Alliance | Wikiwand. [online] Available at: <https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Harry_Potter_Alliance> [Accessed 28 November 2020]

#MDA20009 #Fandom #Week9

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padawanlost · 5 years

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dogstar85 replied to your post“That whole chain of events on Euceron (cool name for a planet by the...”

Which author called out the Jedi? I'd like to support.

It’s Karen Traviss. She’s the author of many star wars novels (OT and PT), including TCW novelization, the Republic Commando and Legacy of the Force series. She is known for developing Mandalore’s culture and considered a controversial figure among the SW fandom mostly of the clone army debate and her “anti-Jed” stance

I’m not going to critique her work or her person, instead I’ll try explain some of the controversies and the fandom’s reaction. I’m doing this because this is “old news” by now but many fans still spread a lot of misinformation about what happened and why in a attempt to justify their heinous acts (dead and rape threats). I strongly believe there’s nothing that justifies sending this type of threats to someone. Even if she was the worst SW writer ever, the fandom would still be in the wrong here.

The Controversy: The Clones Army. She stated the clone army had only 3 million soldiers. Fans attacked her and she attacker her back. They called her names. And she called them “talifans”.

The truth: it’s hard to tell. Even the wookiepedia says the information (screen grabs) available are biased. And if wiki page says they won’t post something because the information is unreliable, you know it is. We do know she did engage with fans but no one has evidence of *everything* that was said (on both sides) so I can’t really tell how bad it got. Also, she wasn’t the only one who used this number. You can find many authors using much lower figure than it was realistically possible to describe the size of the clone army. Apprantly she is the only female writer of the bunch and her stance on the Jedi made it okay for to be threatened with dead and rape, I guess :/

The Controversy: she is anti-Jedi. She wrote the Jedi in a bad light, asking questions about their involvement with the clone army, slavery and corruption. She is the one who started calling the clone army a slave army and accused the Jedi of endorsing slavery.

The truth: Karen Traviss was asked on her blog if she hated the Jedi and here is here answer: “No sane human can hate someone who doesn't actually exist. From a writer's perspective, the more super-powers characters acquire, the harder it is to develop logical story arcs and true human drama...but I don't have any real feelings about fictional characters that stay with me once I step out of character-point-of-view-writing mode and get on with my life […] My real problem, then, is not with fictional Jedi, but with the people who refuse to believe they can do wrong.

The Controversy: she called sw fans (in particular Jedi fans) Nazis.

The truth: A lot of fans claim they hate her because she called them Nazis but all the “receipts” I could find are from old LiveJournal posts with people claiming she did. there’s no explanation of how, when or where this was said. What I did find was this interview (the same from above) where she talks about GFFA politics and the fandom: “Now, if you like Jedi because Luke is basically an ordinary guy who finds the hero in himself, great. If you like lightsabers and impossible martial arts moves, bully for you. If it's just fun for you, and you don't feel mortally wounded when someone suggests that the Jedi might not actually be completely perfect, fine. You pass the harmless test. But once you're past the age of puberty and you start arguing passionately with me that the Jedi were right to accept a slave army of cloned human beings and use them in war, and cloned humans aren't proper humans like us, and it was too bad the clones died, and the Jedi had no choice - well, sweetheart, I want to run a mile from you. […] I'm sure you think you're a nice decent person who's kind to animals, recycles faithfully, and fills in tax returns honestly. Maybe you believe in God, too. But to me, you're someone who harbours a vile and degrading belief in the concept of Untermensch - the idea that some humans aren't human at all, and we can do as we like with them, for whatever arbitrary value we put on the words "real human." You're looking for ways to sift your kind of human from the humans who don't matter, and who can be consigned to the fate of animals. In fact, if you use the phrase "real humans" at all, my case is proven. That belief in a league table of humans - and the casual acceptance of it by nice people who were kind to animals and filled in their tax forms on time - led to the enslavement and murder of millions. It's slave-owner-think: it's Nazi-think. And yes, I bloody well hate it, and all those who think it. It's not about Jedi - who don't even exist. It's about you.

The fandom reaction: “ These fans wrote negative reviews of her books, and created a petition to George Lucas to stop Traviss from writing further Star Wars books. Traviss also received rape and death threats.”

It seems her biggest crime was to suggest clones were human beings who deserved as much respect as the Jedi. and hardcore Jedi stans took it really hard when she dared to question the morality behind their “clones/brown people aren’t human beings” excuses.

Here is the thing, NOTHING she said here - no matter how much we might disagree with her - justifies the fandom reaction. Nothing makes sending death and rape threats to someone an acceptable response. And fans who go out of their way to paint her in a bad light (and conveniently forget to mention all the shitty things the fandom said and did) by making her seem like an unhinged attacker are part of the problem too.

Someone wrote a story that made your favorite character look bad? Stop reading. Don’t threaten the author. And when that backfires, don’t try to pretend to be the victim. Because no matter how much you might disagree her or dislike her, NOTHING makes what the SW fandom did to her acceptable.

#dogstar85 #replies #karen traviss #sw meta #meta: fandom #sw books

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rainythursdaynight · 6 years

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"Most destiel shippers love Jared." Really? I do a few destiel shppers that like Jared, but even they admit that most of the Sam/Jared hate in the SpN fandom comes from the Destiel fandom. If "most" destiel shippers love Jared then why do they don't defend him when their fellow shippers send hate to him on social media. I ready know what you're going to say..."I haven't seen the hate for myself..." Yeah yeah, that's what the Harvey Weinstein enablers are saying too.

By “Most Destiel shippers love Jared.” I mean just that. Most of us do love Jared.

I mean, who wouldn’t? That guy is the most adorable energetic puppy to ever exist! I follow some, what, three to four hundred blogs dedicated to spn– this show has consumed me haha– with a majority of them being Destiel positive, and with none of them as Anti-Jared/Sam.

I won’t go around saying that all Destiel shippers love Sam/Jared because I know that isn’t true, just like I won’t go around saying that all general audience viewers don’t hate any of the characters or all wincest shippers hate Misha/Cas. Because 1)- It obviously isn’t true, and 2)- I’d be generalizing which was the second point I was hitting on in my post.

The post was about generalizing and hating the actors, two things we should never do. It was a message to try and do something to tell people to stop hating on the actors because of their ships, which I know won’t do much since I can’t, contrary to whoever tries to convince me I can otherwise, physically go tell every single shipper to stop and have them listen to me as I hold no control over them. (Which is why I can’t directly answer you and tell you why people send hate or don’t defend the actors that do receive hate but, I’ll hit on that in a bit) But, I’ll try to do what I can, whenever I can. Because hating the actors because of your FICTIONAL ship is the same thing as hating, oh– I don’t know, Tom Hiddleston, a damn gentleman, for being Loki, the villain in the Avengers. Or hating any actor because they played a villain or someone you were personally against. It’s an act, none of it is of their own doing because it’s all in a script. These are planned words that aren’t their own, so hating them should seem ridiculous to, hopefully, everyone reading this, right? Well, people still do it. So, why?

Here’s a little story– I met a girl in an old school of mine who watched the show back when it started and was a devout fan throughoutght the entirety of it, but she didn’t like Sam. And I was confused as to why she didn’t, so I asked her and she told me that she liked Sam from all the way up to around season six and it was around that time that she shipped Dean and Lisa together and the only other people who she knew that watched the show and hung around her had constantly told her that wincest was practically canon by season six and were telling her how toxic her ship was compared to their own. So, as a result, she began hating the one person she was made to believe stood in the way of her ship. And that person was Sam. And that’s where the hate stems from. Toxic shipping. From the people around us and from ourselves. Toxic shipping is terrible and ridiculous. And it doesn’t happen often, but when it does, it happens bad. And it happens as a result of people forcing others onto their ships and making their own ships feel inferior. And if you’re just a dick that lacks common sense, which is still a pretty common person to encounter.

Which is why I hardly know any fan of the show that’s against Sam. Because the Destiel shippers I surround myself with, or even the wincest/sastiel/GA fans that I have friendships with, are comfortable enough to not give a crap about what any other shipper says to them, so they aren’t attacking my ship for it. Which is what everyone should be doing.

(It’s also why I hate anti-blogs so much. Because it’s anti-blogs that end up being instigators. People that purposely go out of their way to spread negativity. Because why in the fuck do they think that making someone feel bad for their ship or favourite character is a good thing? Anti-blogs don’t save us, they ruin us. They are spiteful and ignorant. Why would anyone think saying ewcest or wincestew or destihellers or anything like that would be a smart thing? If you don’t like a character or a ship, fine! You’re entitled to it! But, going out of your way and being anti something so much that you literally have blogs yelling and directing hate towards people who like the things you don’t is just plain mean and ridiculous to even consider. If anything, it’s people like that who mostly send hate to the actors. Not the Destiel shippers, or the wincest shippers, or the GA, or the sastiel shippers, or the cas fans, or “minions”, or whatever the fuck you are, it’s the anti-bloggers.

It’s also why I said Most and not all or even some. Because I’d be generalizing if I said all, and I know for a fact that it isn’t just some of us that adore Jared Padelecki. And since you brought up Harvey Weinstein, why don’t I just tie him in to give you an example. Harvey Weinstein is a disgusting sex offender and molester, right? Well, he’s also a man. So that must mean every man is just like him! Sounds ridiculous right? If anything, it sounds like something one of those feme-nazis that have flooded into the world would say. Well, that’s generalizing in a nutshell. Hey, this group of people that like Destiel are attacking Jared! That must mean they’re all like that and they hate Jared! OH NO DESTIHELLERS, RUN!! This is the thought process of a good majority of anti-bloggers, and it’s this thought process that can also stomach hating a person holding a script because they believe his character is against what they want for the show.) - this isn’t really something you asked me, but I felt it important to mention.

Now, as to why not many fans respond to Jared in regards to hate being sent to him, I don’t have an answer for you. I don’t use twitter or facebook and all those other social media platforms, so I tend to not get involved, but I can testify for a FACT, that every other shipper I personally know, have gone against the hate posted towards Jared on social media. The whole, “Queen of Spn” drama left so many of my friends against the people who had attacked Jared, and well-looky here! They ship Destiel! What a shock! So while I may not control the negative side of the fanbase to have them stop, those of us who can, do defend Jared.

Anyway. this got out of hand, but to answer you and sum this up:

“Most destiel shippers love Jared." Really? (Yes, I said most, and not all, because all would including the toxic shippers, and the toxic shippers are just “1%” of us) I do a few destiel shppers that like Jared, but even they admit that most of the Sam/Jared hate in the SpN fandom comes from the Destiel fandom. (Yes, it probably does come from the Destiel fandom, but it’s coming from the toxic shippers and anti blogs, not everyone else. It’s important to note the difference) If "most” destiel shippers love Jared then why do they don’t defend him when their fellow shippers send hate to him on social media. I ready know what you’re going to say…“I haven’t seen the hate for myself…” Yeah yeah, that’s what the Harvey Weinstein enablers are saying too. (Like I said, I can’t answer that question directly because I don’t know the thought process or the personal situation of everyone else who ships Destiel in this fandom, but I do know that those of us who can/do defend him, do it strongly and passionately. And no, I have in fact seen hate. I just am smart enough to realise that just because someone else shows hatred towards someone/something, it doesn’t mean that I or those I know will ever be like that and it’s only those of us who are taking this FICTIONAL show so seriously as to showing hatred towards a character/actor for absolutely no good reason. I don’t use social media other than this hellsite, but now that I know about this constant hatred, I’ll definitely try to do my best on going on there more. Thank you for that.)

I hope I cleared up my post and your asks a bit, and if you’d like to have a conversation or ask me anything, feel free to dm me. :)

#anon #ask away friends #@destiel-sucks-i-know-that-now

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elsa-of-arrendelle · 7 years

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If Destiel shippers are allowed to post why they ship Destiel, I am allowed to say why I don’t.

I’ll point out that, yes, I’m religious. I’m a Christian of the LDS church and I believe that marriage and sexual relations should be between a man and a woman. But that’s not the big reason I don’t ship Destiel (Heck, I think Cecil and Carlos are *neat* and freaking adorable).

I don’t ship Destiel because of what it cancels from the characters, the healthiness of the proposed relationship, and the effect it’s had on the fandom over the years.

Destiel is a ship that began as a fanon ship and still is. The biggest promotion is fans on tumblr, the lip-service and stories are written by fans, the scenes are either drawn by or edited from available sources by fans. The writers clearly have no intent of making it canon and the actors (mainly Jensen cause he’s tired of the constant peppering) have said that Destiel does not exist in the show.

The character-destroying reasons I don’t ship Destiel:

There is a canonically straight man who watches soap operas, cleans, cooks, has worn pink satin panties, drinks flavored water, listens to kids, show empathy, cries, is unafraid to show affection to his male friends and family, mother-hens his friends and family, and listens to his own moral code. It bashes so many stereotypes it makes me want to cry of happiness. Turning Dean Bi changes “breaking useless gender roles and stereotypes” to “Oh, well yeah, he’s gay so that makes sense now.” and degrades how revolutionary his character already is against mainstream media.

There’s also an angel who doesn’t care about sexuality more than a person’s actions (a slap to Westboro Baptists) with no personal reasons for it other than his conscience. He is sweet and kind but can also be awe-inspiring and ruthless against his enemies. Has immense power but tries to use it to help people, even in small acts of service which takes down the idea that abilities are only useful if they’re out beating up bad guys over doing what you can no matter how small.

And I refuse to ignore Sam because he is not going to be demoted to a cheerleader for Destiel. Sam is kind, passionate, and endures immense hardships and is just as valid as Dean or Cas. He is his own powerhouse and while I’m certain that he supports his brother being happy and healthy in any relationship that Dean might choose, he shouldn’t be ignored or downsized as a character to make way for a new romance plot which will inevitably happen because guys, this is tv land. It always happens.

Meg. Megstiel was actually canon. Yet, during the same time that people were still trying to make it Destiel. Meg was literally making out with Cas and it was not one-sided. I have seen more romance - proper, healthy romance, mind you - and positive character development between these two than between Dean and Cas. Castiel would compliment her poetically and she had her pet-name for him and would fuss over him and cared for him when Dean didn’t because the Winchesters had their own problems to deal with.

^^^ Related to this but Destiel shippers have actually stolen a lot from Megstiel which is just messed up. The Pizza Man was based on Megstiel. The idea of having a “unicorn” is from Megstiel. Could you please use your own cliche’s in your fanfics and headcanons??? You can’t think of any that you have on your own?? That’s messed up. If you can’t write a story without stealing a competing ship’s motifs to pass as your own, you probably shouldn’t be writing and should be researching your own dang ship instead.

Dean and Castiel’s relationship would be toxic, in case you didn’t notice. It very nearly is right now. Cas is not and never will be Dean’s top priority. He’s still a priority for sure, but he’s not Sam. A healthy relationship has either each other on equal standing whether their first priority is each other or God. Goals, real-time emotions, or anything else too changeable are easily toppled. The reason Dean and Lisa worked out for a year was because Sam was not an option for Dean to prioritize anymore but the second he came back, the relationship started (sadly) to fall apart and Dean lost that stability. Unless Sam is also Cas’ #1 priority, their relationship is going to capsize faster than the Titanic without interference from Balthazar.

Not to mention, when Dean is stressed about losing Sam/failing the world/problems, he dishes out on Castiel. Cas is a strange character in that he is so old and has so much knowledge but he’s simultaneously like a child for the first several seasons because he’s missing so much social development. Two emotionally unbalanced factors in a relationship either balance each other out perfectly or they go up like a nuclear reactor. Sometimes it’s immediate and other times it builds up, but Dean and Cas initially clash and still clash on many major decisions. They don’t balance each other, they make the other alarmed by their unpredictability and recklessness.

Dean does care about Cas, but he’s not used to him or expressing concern to anyone beyond Sam, John, and Bobby. He’s bad at expressing negative feelings in an okay way. I’m not going to be the anti-shipper who paints Dean as some kind of abusive monster cause I love Dean and they twist him out of context too, but Dean has said some hurtful things and failed on the supportive front for Cas several times because Cas is not his main priority. Similarly, Cas has shown no interest in becoming a human, he enjoys human interaction and helping humans. He’s not some Ariel out to be ‘part of our world’ and S12 had him taking up Joshua on the deal to allow him back into Heaven. They have their own goals and those goals do not align in a way that gives room for a relationship. In short, their relationship will hurt each other, not support each other.

The fact that other characters refer to them as a couple is obsolete. If anyone has ever referred to you and someone else you know as an item, you understand that other people’s feelings on your emotions do not create a relationship, your individual feelings do. So that is not ‘proof’.

Something I want to point out to the fandom:

These are like the 3 most aggresively sexualized moments that the fandom has to work with when it comes to hardcore shipping over fluff. Usually these images are followed by fics of making out passionately after these moments. Fans have turned these moments into ‘magical’ events that scream UST and drama.

But I need you to understand something so listen up.

In each of these moments... DEAN IS FREAKING TERRIFIED.

#1 +2. Castiel warning Dean to show him respect... because he brought Dean out of Hell and could throw him back in and Dean at this point is most definitely not close to coping with the trauma of those 40 years. He’s threatening him with his biggest trigger right here.

How Romantic. Sparks are flying, guys.

#3. Castiel is literally beating up Dean in an alleyway while yelling at him that he’s being selfish and weak and ignoring Cas’ sacrifices. By the end of this, Dean believes that Cas is just going to kill him. Awwwwww...

#4. The angels have just been exposed at villians and Dean has yelled at Cas to make a decision. Several hours later, Cas appears and slams Dean into the wall and Dean is completely lost and alarmed by this and is unaware of what side Cas has chosen until after a moment of waiting for something to happen.

All of these moments have Dean afraid and/or believing that he is probably going to die. STOP TRYING TO TURN FEAR INTO AROUSAL. That is some serious rape-culture logic and it is messed up. It’s not “kinky”, it’s not “sexy”, it’s fear. If you can’t tell the difference, go see a psychologist.

Okay. Moving past that, the fandom has a lot of issues to deal with when it comes to context and character intent. Most of the scenes ‘supporting’ Destiel are regular pictures taken at a moment with 0 context provided. Others are gifs where something else is actually going on but it looks flirty when there aren’t words so it goes. Most shippers will also confess to not being very big Destiel shippers before they got into the fanfic because it changes their perspective and makes them look for a notice things that aren’t meant to be that way. I read some Bela/Dean stories and found myself shipping them for a while when I used to be die-hard Lisa or Jo.

Also worth mentioning: The argument of Cas being a “multi-dimensional wavelength of celestial intent and therefore isn’t really gay so there’s not a problem” is a double-edged sword with the fact that Castiel has never been with anyone not female (or even human btw it was a reaper and almost Hannah and Meg), but you’re also backspacing over the idea that if it was canon it would be a gay ship so... there goes the side opting for LGBTQA representation...what is your goal with that?

I don’t ship it because I’m tired of great characters being simplified, of great relationships being ignored, of made-up images and quotes being spread as though they were true, of looking up Supernatural and being hit by a wave of Destiel headcanons, of people insulting my favorite actors for both refusing to approve of the relationship and for trying not to shut down the relationship, of the level of tin-hatting required to insist that a character is bi because of the color shirt that they wear, and for people tagging every post - no matter how unrelated - as “Destiel”, I’m sick of it all.

Spamming is the biggest reasons for Anti-Destiel blogs. Tagging everything with your ship name makes anyone who doesn’t ship it want to scream and hate you. This is not how you gain support.

I’m personally just very sick of feeling like I’m not really a part of this fandom because I don’t ship Destiel. But a lot of fans don’t. A lot of fans aren’t on tumblr, they don’t read your fanfic, they don’t consider Cas and Dean to be a couple, they just watch and like the show. That’s kinda what being a fan is. Making everything on Supernatural about Destiel is how you lose support for the show and the fandom.

Shipping despite this is fine. You want to, go for it. It won’t change the show that I enjoy, but please remember that not everyone will ship what you ship and spamming them or harassing them is pointless and rude.

#i don't ship destiel #rant #anti-destiel #post #i've wanted to make this for a long time.#venting #I feel like I can breathe easier now

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admiraldora · 7 years

Text

an essay on antis no one’s gonna read but i wanna write anyway

I’ve spend the last week away from tumblr – something that hasn’t happened to me in years – and during this week I’ve been thinking about the thing that made me leave tumblr temporarily – the antis. I’ve tried to analyze why, of all stupid things I’ve seen on tumblr is what, six years?, this is the one that annoys me the most and takes all the joy out of my fandom experience.

Since it would be incredibly ironic for me to end up writing a post full of hatred and thus turn into an anti-anti, I am not exactly trying to bash antis, but mostly attempting to understand where this phenomenon is coming from and reconciliate myself with it, since I can neither do anything to stop the fandom wars on tumblr, nor leave this website.

warning: this is hella long i’m sorry

First of all, I need to say that I’m unimportant enough on tumblr to have never had a personal confrontation with an anti, especially since I don’t like to participate in any kind of discourse. So all of this comes from my observations, nothing more.

Also, I’m not going to name any fandoms or characters here, because this is a problem in so many of them and I’m not trying to come after some particular group of antis, because I’ve seen people being both anti-things-i-like and anti-things-i-can’t-stand and, to be honest, I dislike all the antis equally. I am not going to say I don’t have bitter feelings towards particular characters or ships or whatever, and sometimes I’m so resentful I’m just unable not to reblog a post shitting on a character I dislike - I do all of these things! - but dedicating whole blogs to it, turning your tumblr experience into a mission, into a war – I do not understand that. That’s the gist of it - I don’t think I’m morally superior to the antis, but I don’t understand them and seeing their posts on my dash is irritating.

Important note: I am only going to talk about fandom antis here. There are real life issues that need resistance, that need antis. Fandoms, however, do not.

I have seen people claim that discourse is beneficial for the fandom. I disagree. You know what is beneficial for the fandom? Discussion. I love fandom meta, I love discussion, I love seeing different points of view. When I see a post that makes me really think about a certain character, a certain thing, that makes me change my opinion on it, I love it so much. I love understanding what other people see in the characters I don’t personally like, even if I can’t always agree with them. I’m always open to the criticism of a ship or a character or a plot point, but not the way the antis do it – just claiming it’s problematic or abusive or whatever naughty word they come up with, and not actually giving any good reasoning behind their hate. Fandoms need meta, fandoms need character analysis, fandoms need substantiated criticism, fandoms need discussion. Fandoms don’t need people hating on each other just because they ship different pairings.

And yes, antis really like this big, awful words – abusive, incestuous, pedophilic, add yours! – you can try any of them on a pairing you dislike, at least one will fit for sure, because you don’t need any reasoning if your problematic word is loud and hateful enough. Besides, even if in the canon a pairing is not morally impeccable, this doesn’t mean you must condemn it and its shippers. AUs exist.

And yes, problematic… So many things are problematic now, so many characters. There’s a quest going on, a search for absolute, unattainable purity – your pairing is not allowed to be anything less than perfect, you favourite character is not allowed to make one single mistake – otherwise they turn problematic and the antis can attack them. But you know who else is problematic? Me, right here. In fact, unless you are out Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, I bet you have made bad things in your life, too. That’s problematic. So is life. Yet there are antis who are so ready to condemn people for shipping something they hate, that they are ready to basically hunt these people down, even when they post a whole different kind of content, just to tell everyone that this content comes from a ‘morally impure blog’. It makes me feel so sad, especially when it happens to artists, you know, like when someone creates art for a pairing and then people try to discredit their other works by saying ‘the person who did this is a BADTHING shipper’. Because we don’t need any talent or creativity in the fandom unless it’s only for the Officially Approved Unproblematic Content.

Tumblr can say it likes ‘grey morality’, but it doesn’t. What the majority of people tumblr does is seeing things in a very black-and-white fashion. If a character is good, you must love them. If a character is bad, you must condemn them and hate them. Tumblr tries to turn art, which is a) subjective and b) fictional, into something highly objective while pretending like it matters more than real people do. But no, there is no absolutely, objectively right or wrong opinion in the fandom, and your pairing doesn’t NEED to be morally superior to all the other pairings to make it a good pairing. You just need to enjoy it, that’s what makes a good pairing. There is no need to tear down every opinion, every point of view that doesn’t match your own. This is not a contest, nor a battle.

The deal is, you don’t need to have reasons behind liking or disliking something. Also sometimes you just don’t like a character that’s popular in the fandom and it’s okay! You don’t really need to have a list of reasons why you ‘hate’ them! I happen not to like some extremely popular characters in some fandoms. They are good characters, they have some amazing moments, but I just don’t care about them. It’s okay! It happens! Sometimes you just don’t like characters or ships just because you don’t like them. No other reason is needed. You don’t have to try and find bad things about this characters and prove they are problematic, even though sometimes I want to do it, too.

Or sometimes you do have reasons for hating a character, and it’s okay, too, as long as you don’t start hating on people who like this character. Because again, real people > fictional characters. Even if you don’t like something, you shouldn’t try to censor people into disliking it, too. Let everyone just enjoy the content they like.

It would be a lie to say I do not partially understand the reasons behind all these anti posts that are full of negativity and hatred. I have written some negative, unkind posts on the characters I don’t like, too, and I was so close to publishing them I only needed to click the “Post” button. I have hovered over people’s ask boxes, wanting to tell them their opinion on a certain ship or a character was stupid. If I didn’t do these things, it’s not because I’m better than the antis, but because I’m too tired to participate in a fandom war that doesn’t even matter in the end. That’s one of the reasons why I don’t think I have any moral right to condemn the antis, the other being the fact that some of them are Literally Children. When I go to a blog, and its description says that the blog’s owner is a) an anti and b) 14 y/o, what right do I, a 25 y/o adult, to judge this child? Thank god, I didn’t have tumblr when I was 14, but I won’t say I wasn’t a judgmental bitch back then, who saw then world in a very black-and-white way. Maybe 14 y/o me would’ve been an anti. That’s very possible.

Now, however, I don’t have the kind of energy or time that I can waste hating on people for liking or disliking a certain fictional thing. The ship wars can go on, and sometimes they even become bigger than the shows themselves (that’s very sad and I feel sorry for the creators of the thing), but ultimately, they don’t matter. None of these characters, none of these events, none of the actions and decisions the characters make are real, and thus, none of them actually matter. They can mean a lot to us personally, but we mustn’t allow these things to become more important to us than real people. Because okay, you are an anti. What’s your mission when you attack something or someone? Why is there is no other way than everyone in the fandom having the same negative opinion on a certain thing? What do you achieve by spreading this negativity? Does it really make the world better? Because the anti culture is not educational, it isn’t built on a dialogues, and that’s what I don’t like. It doesn’t really have a point, a goal behind it, it seems like the people participating in the fandom wars just like to spread negativity and drama. Which does make scrolling through tumblr way less enjoyable for me.

I firmly believe that you shouldn’t hate a person over what kind of fictional content they prefer. You shouldn’t judge a person depending on what characters they like. Sometimes we find certain qualities in the characters that speak to us, that touch our very souls, and then we are ready to ignore all the bad qualities these characters have – because these bad qualities are not real and, thus, can be ignored or forgiven. You shouldn’t judge a person based on what pairings they ship, even if you find these pairings problematic. Because liking something in fiction is not the same as liking it in real life. Even shipping something that is not healthy doesn’t mean you as a person are abusive or anything. God knows, all these years of shipping straight pairings didn’t make me straight! Anyway, the point is, the majority of people can see the line between reality and fiction, and besides, though the canon exists, the qualities and the stories, even the ages of the characters are not set in stone.

Because I think that one of the main qualities of any fandom is that it’s transformative. You take a character, a ship, and make it YOURS. You can ignore some if its qualities or add some new ones. You can change the age of the characters, the relationships between them. You can straight up ignore some canon facts. Because that’s what all of us do, anyway, in one way or another (see: headcanons; see: AU). No two people will ever see a character ABSOLUTELY the same way, because it depends on who we are, on our personal experience, on our personal values, on so many things. Something you find inexcusable may be okay for another person. Or they can just ignore it. You can do it, because it’s fiction! Fandom is here for fun, for escaping real-life problems, for relaxing, for making friends, for expressing yourself – not for spreading hatred and intolerance.

There are some things in my fandoms I dislike. Things I can’t stand. Things I hate, even. You know what really makes me feel better about them? Ignoring them. It’s very simple, actually.

The anti culture is very exhausting. Seeing this constant negativity makes me so tired. I know I can’t stop the antis or even influence them, really, but I don’t want the teenagers on tumblr to grow accustomed of hating people over their stance in the fandom. The real world is a bitch, and there are so many bad things out there, and maybe if we could put the energy that goes into ship wars into resolving some real problems, we would’ve been happier. I know it would’ve been happier if my fandoms were more accepting to different opinions and less focused on deeming things problematic. I know I love seeing positivity and informed discussion on my dash, even though I do enjoy an occasional salty post on something I feel equally salty about. Because I’m not saying you’re not allowed to have negative opinion on things, or that you’re not allowed to express it – that’s your blog, after all. But I don’t think you need to preach these opinions, trying to make everyone feel the same resentment that you feel. Fandom is more fun when people are chill, but I can’t even be always chill myself, so I’m just gonna find the block button and ignore the antis. This much I can do.

#dora talks

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