#being like 'yes we should stand for palestine BUT HAMAS'

[ragnarssons]

real question tho, @ the people who keep saying "hamas is forcing the palestinian people to stay, hamas is using them as shields, they're holding them hostages!" what do you even mean? israel built a whole ass wall with cameras and barbed wire to imprison the people of gaza. israel bombed rafah. israel bombed convoys of people, ambulances fleeing to the south as "ordered" by the idf. israel still bombs the south right now, refugee camps and UNWRA schools in the south. israel is ordering the hospitals up north to pack up and leave, doctors to leave their sick on their deathbeds, abandoned to die! and that's without mentioning that the distance north to south in the gaza strip is no more than 40km... not even an hour long car ride. tell me again, how that's hamas' doing?

#palestine #free palestine #y'all im really tired of pro israel zionists and even pro palestine bsters #being like 'yes we should stand for palestine BUT HAMAS' #and don't come at me 'none of this would happen without hamas' attack on oct 7' YES IT WOULD #BECAUSE IT DID #IT'S BEEN LIKE THIS FOR 75 YEARS AND Y'ALL WE'VE BEEN TELLING YOU #the only thing the hamas attack did was bring up everything israel was doing up front #and GOOD because IT SHOULD BE #y'all can't be complecent anymore #y'all can't fake ignorance anymore

[notaplaceofhonour]

One of the most frustrating parts of the extreme rhetoric around Israel/Palestine (besides the obvious reliance on antisemitic & anti-Arab, Islamophobic tropes) is that it exceptionalizes so many things that are actually pretty standard features of nation-states and war in a way that completely compartmentalizes the criticism of these things into just being about criticizing the “few bad apple” countries instead of criticizing the entire institution of nation-states and war as a whole.

For instance: the fact is that war kills civilians, at an alarming average of 6:1 civilians-to-combatants deaths. The status quo of war, across the board, is that way more civilians die than combatants. And yet, despite the high death toll, despite Hamas using civilian infrastructure & noncombatants as human shields (which Hamas has openly admitted to doing), despite the imprecise & destructive nature of using bombs on urban targets, and despite the inadequate humanitarian aid that has been able to make it into Gaza… the IDF has still managed to stayed well below the average of civilian casualties.

The point of saying this is not “this is what war looks like so it’s not a big deal” it’s “this is what war looks like so we as a species need to stop doing it”—seeing the devastation war has brought to the people Gaza should move you, and it should make you never want to see another war again. It should make you want a ceasefire not just for Israel and this war but all wars always. And obviously, in practice, it’s not that simple—peace is more than “just don’t do war” and the thing about ceasefires and peace treaties is they kind of have to be mutual to mean anything—but the point stands: War Bad.

However, if instead you see the destruction in Gaza and think it’s an exceptional case, where Israel is evil and the only way war could be this destructive is genocide, you get to preserve this romanticized, idealistic fantasy of war as, violent yes, but perhaps only in a cathartic, tragic-but-beautiful way—a glorious struggle where two armies clash on a battlefield far removed from everyday life and only soldiers die. You get to preserve your belief in Just War, to look forward to a morally uncomplicated Glorious Revolution™️—you may even preserve your ability to cheer on the death of Israelis.

And that’s just one issue. There are others: the claim of “ethnostate” obscures criticisms of nation-states as a concept, the claim of “apartheid” obscures criticisms of how borders & citizenship are set up across the world, etc. This inverse Israeli Exceptionalism where Israel is treated as uniquely or exceptionally problematic isn’t simply discriminatory or rooted in prejudice (which are reasons enough to criticize it, as I have), it’s actively impeding the left’s ability to criticize the actual structural systems that are the problem.

#i/p #anti war

[xyriath]

but seriously if you are at all blogging about the i/p conflict you NEED to read that standing together article from that post i just reblogged. please. please please please please please. these are the people who are actually doing something about freeing palestine and have been for years. And here's the thing:

IF YOU WANT PEACE IN ISRAEL, IN PALESTINE, THESE ARE THE PEOPLE IT'S GOING TO COME FROM.

Because yeah. The way this site is spreading around uncritical posts is a huge issue (and a reason I haven't been around since October). Standing Together is doing a hell of a lot more than blogging about it. They're on the ground putting in the work. Nine days before the October 7 attack, they were in Tel Aviv publicly protesting about the systematic oppression of Arabs (not just Palestinians) in Israel.

"The global left has to be synced with what we need." Trust me, the right is. Boy HOWDY is the right synced. I have gotten more support about my Judaism from the far right than the left and it's??? kinda fucked up??? Someone who worked for Pat Robertson should not feel safer than someone dedicated to activism, but here we are. I can feel how easy it would be to be radicalized towards the right, and I'm actively fighting against it. Now imagine that multiplied by millions of people, plenty of whom don't have the same desire to do so, or feel like they don't have the luxury of safety to do so.

Seeing Hamas being portrayed as sympathetic and talked about like they had a right to commit all of the atrocities that they have is making me lose my MIND. They're a group run by corrupt billionaires who actively started this conflict with the intent of silencing the Palestinian people who have been protesting their tyranny. They have been siphoning money from Palestinians for years and this entire attack is them deliberately throwing Palestinians into the path of slaughter to distract from that fact, the same way that Netanyahu absolutely took advantage of the threat and tragedy to try and get himself off the hook for his own corruption.

Also check out the google doc linked in the article. It's not just a good way to learn how to communicate, but a very good resource for finding out if something you're sharing is worthwhile. In fact, it does a really god job of breaking down why I've felt so uncomfortable about a bunch of the posts on my dash. Some excerpts:

This got way longer than I had intended, but hopefully does its job. Go read the article and, yes, if you need to, reevaluate your activism. Because if it's not what people involved actually want or need, then it's just for you. And that's kinda fucked up.

#xyri yaps #antisemitism #Israel #Gaza #Palestine #I/P Conflict #Activism #Leftist Antisemitism #Standing Together #i've been sitting on a lot of this for a while and i guess it all came out now

[cock-holliday]

The post you made about the celebrity/Biden letter honestly kind of has the same energy as that person who tried to argue that Neil Gaiman is a zionist, especially considering that the list is full of a majority Jewish celebrities.

I agree that the lack of condemnation of the Isreali government's genocide against Palestinian people doesn't look good and I also hate a lot of the wording of the letter, but I think getting into semantics over performative celebrity slackivism from mostly Jewish people who are ultimately calling for the placement of human life over politics doesn't feel like the place to be wasting energy. Especially when, despite how publicly unpopular it is, being publicly vague about politics is still job security in any field. Especially in the entertainment industry.

(dgmw, that doesn't make it "right" - like just look at Macklemore's incredible statement in comparison - but I also don't think people should be blamed for toeing a line but not crossing it because saying more in different ways could jeopardize their places in their profession, regardless of what that profession is)

Neil Gaiman has stated that he believes Israel has a right to exist and that he wants Palestine to either be a country or have full citizenship within Israel. Neil’s response is the sort of fence-sitting I expected from a celebrity—as the goals of Israel are counter to Palestine’s sovereignty. They do not want Palestinians to exist let alone be given equal or even better treatment. Is that sort of response completely removed from the reality of the situation? Yes. Does that make Neil a zionist? Not really.

The letter is much worse.

To begin with, the letter references “beheaded babies” which immediately shows the level of debunked misinformation the entire campaign is operating from. I expected a limp dick response from celebs: “we want no more death,” “we want everyone to leave peacefully”, “please bring the hostages home and end the conflict that definately started October 7th ty 🙏”

What we get is much more sinister.

No, I wouldn’t fucking dream of celebs en mass condemning Israel when they’re too chickenshit to even call for a ceasefire. I thought, foolishly perhaps, that we would get “we don’t need more bloodshed, please limit civilian casualties/exercise caution/show restraint” etc etc every buzzword they use for hostage situations.

The most chilling part of the letter is the implication that the ONLY source of violence is Hamas. The only cause of death for Israelis is Hamas. The deaths of Palestinians is Hamas or…what? Alternatives are completely absent.

Hamas tried to return hostages and Israel rejected them. The hostages who have been released are the result of a brokered deal with Egypt and Qatar—not Israel. It is looking increasingly like a number of casualties on October 7th are a result of Israel counter-striking, including SHELLING buildings holding the hostages. Israel has been bombing hospitals and mosques and churches across the country under the excuse that Hamas is hiding behind human shields—a tactic they have used for decades.

I expected spineless bothsidesing and empty expressions of a desire for peace alongside the concern for the hostages.

What the letter is is permission to do whatever “to save the hostages” that Israel does not give two shits about. They have killed their own hostages, denied their own hostages—and not for no reason! Israel has been using everything as a pretext for ethnic cleansing.

They have claimed places are hiding Hamas that weren’t, that hospitals they blew up were actually blown up by Hamas, that Hamas actually has chemical weapons and that’s why we have to level a neighborhood, that a civilian standing there was actually cause for violence—they get pissed when civilians don’t fight back because it’s hard to spin it as justified when they kill everyone anyway.

Israel has been attacking Palestinian settlements not controlled or connected to Hamas in any way—it is pretext.

This is Iraq WMDs all fucking over again and it makes me feel insane to watch it happen again.

“Do whatever you must to save the civilians” is implicit permission to do whatever the fuck Israel wants and fuck the hostages, they don’t care.

I fully expect celebs to protect their jobs over their interest in people’s lives—I know the cost of speaking out about Palestine, I have experienced it in the past and watched it happen for years. Silence would still be gross, but less gross than this.

If celebs sang a corny song about how ‘hey maybe Israel could pause the slaughter for a minute’ it would be infinitely less disgusting than this letter that blatantly shows

1. The celebs didn’t read it,

2. They are wiiiiiiiildly clueless to what is happening, or

3. They support genocide.

Which is it?

And *I* am Jewish, many people fighting the IOF are Jewish, many marches in the US and abroad are being organized by and heavily populated by Jews. That is not an excuse. Fence-sitting and handwringing are disappointing—a letter that will ultimately be justification for the continuation of massacres is appalling.

It is not “wasted energy” to explain why this is appalling.

#ask #anon ask

[wheelerpilled]

Reminder that if you're pro-israel block me. Dni. Or even if you are remaining neutral!!!!!! 🇵🇸

There is a genocide still ongoing! Read this post before interacting with my page as it's important.

__________________________________________

And no. By supporting Palestine I don't mean supporting Hamas.

I mean supporting the civilians who have been bombed, killed, and displaced by Israeli attacks. The innocents who are being slaughtered. Those who are the victims in this horrific genocide.

___________________________________________

Block me if you remain neutral. I just can't fathom how anyone can remain on the fence after hearing about the one-sided onslaught in Gaza. Stand with Palestine or stay away from my page as you are not welcomed here. Please, if you don't know alot about the situation that well- ATTEMPT to educate yourself! It is not an excuse to remain neutral due to not knowing the extent of the situation. The resources are readily available.

Sorry if this sounds blunt, my intentions are just in support of spreading awareness for Palestine.

_____________________________________________

here is a link to a useful masterpost of ways you can educate yourself about Palestine and support them.

Please take a look.

While most of us sit privileged and comfortable there is a GENOCIDE ONGOING. This is not meant to be rude or come across as aggressive. it is just a fact. Alot of people (including myself) will probably (and hopefully) never have to firsthand experience such horrors that Palestinians are going through. the fact that innocent people, including innocent CHILDREN AND INFANTS are suffering in such unimaginable ways is vile. it's heartbreaking how cruel the situation is.

I am forever grateful that I am not in such a horrible situation and it's so important that we never take it for granted, so please, all of us can contribute in some way shape or form, no matter how small it may seem. Every contribution helps. Even if it's supporting in free ways without donating.

_________________________________________

Remember to DO YOUR CLICK EVERYDAY. IT TAKES A SECOND AND IT IS FREE.

-i understand some people can't donate. But there is no reason not to take a moment to CLICK A BUTTON everyday. Everything adds up and helps.

even if you don't, just remember to engage with any pro-palestine posts you come across in your feed. Please, spread awareness no matter how you do it. Educate yourself and others on what's happening in the world and about the conflict if you are able to.

_____________________________________________

Yes I am aware I'm a ST blog, a show of which has Zionist cast members- I would like to make it clear now that I do NOT align myself with such vulgar and cruel views and neither should you!! I have no respect for Brett Gelman, Noah Schnapp or ANY other Zionists. I pirate any content I wish to watch from big streaming sites and I will not be streaming ST5 on Netflix or funding a subscription that will benefit Zionists. I won't shame anyone for doing otherwise but I advise people to look into alternative ways of seeing content... especially content of which could POTENTIALLY fund Zionists!!!

____________________________________________

That's all, thank you- please remember to stand with and support Palestine 🇵🇸🇵🇸.

#palestine #free palestine #free gaza #gaza #gaza strip #gaza genocide #pro palestine #anti zionisim #free palestine 🇵🇸 #i stand with palestine 🇵🇸

[raysrambles]

new intro post!!

hi! call me Ray, my pronouns are he/they/xe/aer. I am a minor (don't be fucking weird) and I am gay and demisexual. I'm an agnostic atheist and practice witchcraft, and I am a polytherian and otherkin! :)

I am hyperfixated on warrior cats and wings of fire, and my other interests include music (mainly punk rock and psychedelic rock), drawing, writing, skating, psychology, quantum physics (yes, you read that right, I'm a nerd), and video games.

I am diagnosed with depression, anxiety, ADHD, and BPD. I am also the host of a medically recognized system of 6. We are traumagenic; syscourse opinions vary by alter but I (Ray, the main one posting here) am endo critical, and anti fakeclaiming. I am open (and happy!) to talk syscourse, but please keep it on my sideblog @rayssyscourse.

I have a tendency to be very strongly opinionated, and am an argumentative and confrontational person. If that bothers you, just scroll past or block me. That being said, I will do my best to be open to criticism should I overstep a boundary or take something too far. I block liberally at my own discretion.

I don't have a DNI per se, with the exception of asking kink/nsfw/para (idc your stance on contact, I don't want sexual stuff on my feed) blogs not to interact--I'm a minor and it makes me uncomfortable. Besides that, I don't really care, but will block people if I feel like it for any reason. If it helps for your own DNI purposes, I am a leftist, I stand with Palestine (no, I don't support Hamas at all; I care more about the genocide of innocents than I do the 'lesser of two evils'), anti radqueer/transid, endo critical, anti fakeclaiming, anti public proshipping (idc what you do in private but think it's harmful when publicized), and anti anti recovery.

feel free to reach out for any reason, I'm always open to discussion and making new friends. hope to see you around!! <3

[hello-nichya-here]

What are your thoughts on MJ's daughter supporting Israel and trying to distance herself from her dad? Girl won't even defend him

Jesus fucking Christ, are you guys coordinating these asks? This is the third time one of you asked me it, I'm legit impressed.

Let's get the easy, and horrible part out of the way first: nobody on the fucking planet has any excuse to support Israel. You can hate Hamas and the goverments of countries like Iran without excusing the literal genocide of civilians in Palestine, because yes, that's what Israel is doing right now.

Paris Jackson (and everyone else, famous or not, that is still pretending Israel isn't commiting all kinds of crimes against humanity right now) should have known better and needs to get her shit together.

Now, onto the messy part:

Although Paris has recently said "it's not her role/place" to defend her dad, lets not forget the other things she said on that same controversial statement:

1 - She fully believes her father is innocent and called the "documentary" Leaving Neverland pure lies.

2 - She believes that everything that could be said about her father's innocence has been said already and she'd have nothing new to add to the conversation.

3 - Her cousin Taj has become basically the leader of the family's campain to clear Michael's name and has been doing an amazing job.

4 - She's not as patient as her father was to deal with that kind of stuff and she has been focusing more on trying to recover from her mental health issues.

That last one is important, specially when we remember that Paris has claimed to have been sexually abused in school (which left her with PTSD), and that she has struggled with addiction, paranoia and a freaking suicide attempt.

It would not be surprising to me if having to listen to allegations of childhood sexual abuse is extremelly triggering for her - especially since the person being accused of being the abuser is her late father, who was murdered by his doctor when she was just 10-years-old, and she was treated like a stupid child in denial everytime she tried to point out the things being said about him were not true.

Considering she has continued to praise her father over the years, both with small things like posting a family picture on Father's day this year and big things like saying he was a super accepting man that was totally cool with her not being straight, and DID defend him publically every now and then, like, once again, calling "Leaving Neverland" pure lies when it came out, I'd say she's not really trying to distance herself from her dad or imply she's starting to think he might have been guilty. I think she just genuinely cannot fucking stand having to act as his lawyer only to have every word she says ignored, no matter how much evidence she offers to back it up.

(And before anyone brings up the fact that Taj was also a victim of sexual abuse in his childhood and has is still speaking out in support of his uncle, including of how he helped him deal with his trauma, keep in mind that people cope differently and heal at different paces).

Do I think she could have phrased some things better? Yes.

If either of my parents were accused of something horrible and a bunch of people kept insisting they were guilty despite all evidence poiting to the contrary, would I interact with said celebrities? No, and it is extremelly disappointing whenever Paris does that...

... But then again, Michael was at war with his record label, Sony, for years and was convinced they were not only sabotaging his career but also trying to murder him, yet he still was ready to go on a final tour that was going to make them A LOT of money. Like father, like daughter.

Honestly, I would not blame the entire Jackson family if they just made one last big documentary to try and clear Michael's name, then, regardless of how it was taken, packed all their shit and moved to a remote island, far away from the spotlight and never spoke to any journalist or had any social media presence again. They've been getting screwed over and surrounded by awful people in the industry, the media, and amongst other celebrities since the goddamn sixties, it's a miracle anyone of them is still trying to "play the game" or explain themselves.

#asks #michael jackson #paris jackson #abuse #rape #mental health problems

[santaresistencia]

I'm so confused. I'm not sure what is true anymore!

When I tried talking to a close relative of mine about Palestine, they started going on a huge spiel. They insisted it wasn't genocide, that they voted for Hamas and that Isr*el warned them and gave them time to go south before the bombings happened, that Palestine struck first, and that Isr*el had given them their land.

When I asked them for proof, they dodged the question, claimed they've been in the loop for a very long time (they're nearing their sixties), and said something about the quran.

I don't know what to do and I'm so torn!

warning: this post has a plethora of links (everything underlined) i encourage you and anyone reading to click through them and learn more.

hi lovely sorry it took me so long to respond. i understand why you're confused right now - there's currently a huge, censorship, disinformation campaign being waged by isr*el (and backed and supported by the united states) to keep people confused about what's going on right now. and sadly if you (like me) grew up in the united states/the west very little is taught about palestine and we are steeped in propaganda from the very moment we can talk. it is a failure of the system, and ourselves, and done purposefully to keep us ignorant about an evil from which we directly contribute and benefit.

and if you simply went by what western leaders and cable news are reporting right now you would be vastly misinformed about the true horror being waged and why it is being waged. social media is a powerful tool and is being weaponized by isr*el to fight a proxy war. (a war which they are losing with certain demographics, if the sheer number of us awakening right now and by your very question is evident).

many people are trying to push a narrative of this being a very complicated issue so they can remain "neutral" and i'm here to tell you it isn't - what it comes down to is that isr*el is illegally occupying palestine (which they've been doing for almost 75 years) and are currently waging a genocide against the palestinian people, who throughout the last decades have been forced to live under an apartheid state in both gaza and the west bank - areas which are really just ghettos controlled by their colonizer - isr*el.

i will note here - this is a very basic fact that many are unaware of, to our shame, but gaza is not a country, it is a strip of land under the occupation and total control of isr*el. (to even justify calling this a "war" is unfair in the extreme - wars are fought by more or less equal powers with a standing army of their own - gaza does not have it's own army. the current aggression taking place is david and goliath-levels unequal). more basic facts/questions that we are too afraid to ask covered here and here.

gaza especially is recognized (the united nations included) as the world's "largest open-air prison." palestinians cannot freely travel without the permission of isr*el (on their own land!), and everything - food, electricity, water, incoming supplies, everything - is controlled by isr*el and subject to their whims. they are under constant surveillance and overly policed, killed daily by both the state and isr*eli settlers stealing palestinian land, and thousands of them are held illegally without trial indefinitely by isr*el. (does this sound familiar to you? it should because most of america's police force is trained by the IDF).

and while hamas did attack isr*eli civilians, the attack did not occur in a vacuum and the response to that attack has been very, very, very, very, disproportionate - it is collective punishment against a civilian population and a war crime.

the oct 7th attacks are being used as an excuse to carry out isr*el's dream/ultimate goal of cleansing palestinians off their own land so they can claim it as their own.

but to address the specific claims made by your relative - yes the ongoing isr*eli occupation's aggression is genocide (and has been acknowledged as such by experts in holocaust history, human rights groups, and quite openly by isr*el itself). while hamas did "strike first" they did so in response to the many human rights abuses, systematic oppression, and colonial violence that the palestinian people have been undergoing for close to a century. an oppressed people pushed to the edge of survival and left with no other choice will be forced to use any means necessary to resist their oppressors.

the demonization and dehumanization of hamas is used to paint palestinian resistance as "terrorism" in order to justify wiping a whole group of people (2.3 million) off the face of the earth. civilians - men, woman, and children are not "terrorists" and their slaughter is not and will never be justified.

the claim that isr*el is giving them "warning" and "time" to evacuate before bombing is laughable - where are they supposed to go? they've closed down the borders - no one can get in or out of gaza. they have specifically targeted civilian infrastructure such as hospitals, churches, and residential homes which have been serving as shelter to civilians. they told them to evacuate the north of gaza and into the south (which is impossible when you think of over a million people being given 24 hours to evacuate their homes), and then continue to bomb the south and north anyway. they are also carrying out violence and aggression in the west bank which is not controlled by hamas and so their excuses are simply that, excuses.

no their goal is not to get rid of hamas, their goal is the complete and utter annihilation of gaza and the palestinian people. (which they will not succeed in doing, palestine will be free, whether in this life or the next).

and the idea that isr*el gave palestinians their land? it's their land! isr*el stole their land, violently displaced (such a soft word for such a violent act) over 750,000 people (which has created a diaspora of six million palestinian refugees), forced the remaining into gaza and the west bank, has been subjecting them to a slow suffocating death for decades, and now openly slaughters them by the thousands.

the mention of the Quran specifically by your relative is thinly veiled islamophobia (which is rampant in the west and in the united states in particular). this is not a religious war. and the fact that a majority of palestinians are muslims (though christian palestinians do exist) is being used to paint a whole people as "terrorists" and encourages the dehumanization of palestinian people.

this is why the many many videos and images of dead palestinian babies, men, and woman mean nothing to certain people - palestinians (and frankly brown/black ppl) are not seen as fully human and equally worthy of life. their lives and their deaths weigh less in certain ppl's minds (just compare the global support ukraine received when it was invaded by russia to the indifference that palestine is currently receiving).

to some and (your relative) the horrific slaughter by the literal thousands is justifiable - an "unhappy but inevitable consequence of war." this is not war, this is genocide. these are not battles being fought, these are blatant war crimes being carried out by isr*el who have been given carte blanche by the united states and other western powers to do as they wish.

tbh there are many others on here that can explain better and their masterposts and blogs are valuable resources available here, here, and here. and i recommend these tiktok users here, here, and here. i also recommend the decolonizepalestine.com website as it is highly informative.

and for keeping up with current news in gaza that is not blatant propaganda i recommend al jazeera - which has been doing some of the most comprehensive and amazing journalism i've ever seen. (seriously they are putting their very lives on the line, as several of their reporters have been assassinated by isr*el).

it is a tragedy that we have been kept largely ignorant of a struggle that has been happening right under our noses for years, supported by our own money and aid, and which we directly benefit from. but now that we know the extent of the horror it is our duty to educate ourselves, to reach out and educate others, to uplift palestinian voices, and to do everything we possibly can to help. to do otherwise is a failure of our very own humanity.

#falesteen 🇵🇸 #free gaza #gaza strip #heads up if zionists interact with this you automatically get blocked #in the same way i do not waste my breath arguing with nazis i do not argue with zionists #look deep into your heart and find god #the rest of you asking further questions i will try my best to help and refer you to the best sources #saint rambles #masterpost

[paperstorm]

I don’t feel comfortable coming off anon cause honestly some parts of this fandom have been fucking brutal if you express anything outside of falling exactly in line with how they think you should feel. Zero nuance allowed. My ask was in response to you referring to the “Isreal propaganda machine” as one of the “biggest in the world” and that just felt really close to another form of the “Isreal owns the media.” antisemitic tropes I was referencing. I don’t think you meant it that way but other people certainly do. and what I meant by sources about the human shields is that I genuinely haven’t seen anyone explain how that is propaganda? I’ve seen very reputable info about how Hamas does in fact store bases and supplies nearby and beneath places like schools and I haven’t seen any good information or sources explaining how that isn’t true (sources other than “Hamas spokesperson said this”)… and I was just asking for sources to link to if you had seen that information somewhere so I could be better educated. But almost immediately after I sent that I went and did my own research. I don’t think I have the same conclusion as you but maybe we’re taking “human shields” to mean something different. (but also I’m not saying this would excuse any kind of violence btw. human shields or not, the air strikes need to stop)

Ah okay, that may have just been unartful language on my part and I will be more careful with that.

I don't have specific links on hand because this is an opinion I have developed over many years of reading on this issue but I will explain what I mean about the human shields thing, so at least you know where I stand on it.

Israeli leadership often claims that they have no choice but to bomb hospitals and schools and residential buildings because Hamas is hiding in them, that is the essence of the ‘human shields’ claim. And as far as I know, it is a factual claim that Hamas militants are in those kind of buildings. But there are two points I think are important to contextualize this claim.

The first, is that Palestine is not a real independent state. It does not have sovereignty in any of the ways we use that word. It doesn’t have a capital city. It doesn’t have an elected central government or an independent judiciary. It has no control over its own resources (the mere fact that Israel can cut off fuel and water is deafening evidence of that, because what other country has the ability to cut off water to another state?) Where this comes into play in this conversation is that Palestine has no military, due completely to the occupation and Israel not allowing it to be a sovereign state. This is not in defense of Hamas. They are not defensible and any leftists pretending they’re freedom fighters immediately lose any credibility in my eyes. But it is factual that Hamas operates in residential areas instead of military bases because military bases have not been allowed to exist.

The second, and more important, point, is that I don’t accept that a terrorist potentially being in a residential building is justification for dropping a bomb on it. Extrapolate that logic to any other situation. Let’s say the FBI thinks Ted Bundy is maybe hiding in a 20-storey apartment building. They don’t know this for sure, but they claim to have intel (which they refuse to make public) that shows he’s in a unit on the third floor. Does that give them permission to drop a bomb on that building and kill all 300 people who live there? If it turned out they were right and Ted was among the lifeless bodies they pulled from the rubble, would they be allowed to say “see we got him, so we made the right call and had no other choice”? I would argue, fuck no. Tbh I kind of don’t know how to empathize with someone who would argue yes. But that is the argument the Israeli government is making when they cry human shields. They’re saying they have to slaughter thousands of children, because a Hamas militant might be hiding in that elementary school. It is my opinion that that’s indefensible, regardless of whether they’re right about the presence of Hamas.

#israel/palestine discussion

[meshlasolus]

Yes, it is I again, coming at you with an Israel/Palestine post.

I know y'all are probably sick of hearing about it but I'm suck of dealing with the repercussions of people's blatant antisemitism almost daily.

I've already been over (many times) the fact that antizionism is infact antisemitism. I've already been over the fact that being a zionist does not mean you don't support the rights and self determination of Palestinians. I've already been over the fact that no matter what we as jews can say, the people who can't stand to be wrong will gaslight us and others about how we don't know what we're talking about.

Let's get some facts straight:

The war/conflict has gone on for generations, and mainly began about eighty years ago when Israel achieved statehood. Mind you, it was not just a random choice to settle a bunch of humans there, it was a calculated effort to try and keep jews from being murdered again... you know, by the millions.

"Well, Palestinians had claim to that land! It isn't fair that they had to leave and make room for white Europeans!"

Jews have been in diaspora since the dawn of antisemitism. Not as we see it tofay, or even in the times of WW2. I mean the actual beginning of it, about three thousand years ago. Jew hatred is not new, guys. It is not something that just goes away over time. Only, with time, the hatred and violence against jews has tended to get worse, more vile and personal. People tend to not even realize the internal prejudice they hold against jews based on stereotypes/things they've heard from others. It's why we can't seem to live in one place safely without our lives being threatened or our autonomy being treated as though it is less than others. Israel was not "a fake jewish state" that just appeared one day. It's a place we were once bullied out of and forced to live elsewhere until our race/ethnicity now varies in how we look. We aren't just "white Europeans" who are trying to steal land from others we think we're superior to. We are still culturally and descendantly jews, and our origins are in Judea (modern day Israel).

"Jews don't need an ethnostate! They are perfectly safe where they're at."

Project Aliyah has been going on for many years. In short, it's a Jew's return to their ancestral homeland from all over the world, but mostly because of persecution. Over the years, more than 50,000 jews from Yemen alone have gone to live in Israel. They aren't white and they certainly were not safe where they were at. Yemen's government has quite literally passed a law that makes it legal to murder a jewish person or family without being prosecuted. Not only that, but the last known and self proclaimed jew in Yemen was forced to celebrate Yom Kippur in an Islamic prison.

"Israel should be wiped off the map, Palestine will be free!"

And when Israel ceases to exist, and millions of jews are again killed, the remaining will be forced to scatter amongst the world, again. The cycle of jew hatred never ends. Goyim tend to be just fine with our displacement and our suffering as long as it doesn't inconvenience them or their beliefs. Palestinians are living through hell right now given the stupidity of the current Israeli prime minister and his idiot battalions of soldiers... do you really think their lives would be any better, if Hamas, the current government in Gaza were to take over the land? Do you really think that the men in power that started this entire war at the expense of their own people are going to be the ones that rule over them justly and fairly? They literally made it so no one else could be elected. Sounds a lot like a dictatorship, but the hell do I know?

Hamas opresses and abuses women and children, yet feminist movements are cheering them on. They rebuke lgbtqia+ peoples rights and kill them when they can, and somehow the lgbt in america is gung ho for their "rebellion." They have quite literally filmed themselves proudly killing and raping jews, and to my (unsurprised at this point) knowledge, the majority of humanitarian organizations of the world are right there in with them.

At this point, the jews of the world will jave to completely assimilate, or just be completely dead before y'all wake up. Goyim did not wake up when the arabian conquest stole Judea and Samaria from us, Goyim did not wake up when we were forced to assimilate to hide our culture, Goyim did not wake up when millions of us were being brutally murdered, and now you won't wake up when clearly you have the ability to.

You can say "Palestinians deserve heir own self determination and statehood." But instead you say "Wipe 'Israhell' off the face of the earth."

You could most definitely say "There needs to be an immediate double ceasefire and all the hostages need to be released." But instead you say. "Israel needs to ceasefire, Hamas is the rebellion!"

You should be saying "Jews are indigenous, and Palestinians are, too." But instead you say "Israel is an ethnostate of evil jewish zionists that think they can colonize arab land!."

I can't possibly use anymore words to try and convey this. People will either learn, or they will choose to be closeminded. I've done my part and I can only hope that in time, people will wake up and see that this was never about Israel (becauseif it were about israel as a state, then jordan would be included as well. Jordan 'occupies' more than half of british mandated palestine). It's about jews.

#israel palestine conflict #I'm so tired of seeing this conflict force it's way into fandom spaces #and not in the way of awareness #but in the constant backlash of jews and zionists and complete misinformation being spread

[riot-company]

“Open Air Prison”

While our leaders “urge” the Israeli government to “respect the rules of war and human rights in their self defense”, a lot of them are blind to the horrors committed by a government and its military and do not call out these atrocities for what they are.

Being absent or opposed to a cease fire resolution because you don’t like that it “fails to mention two words” must be the utmost hypocrisy.

Yes, Hamas is a terrorist organization that did not only commit horrible crimes against the Israeli people but also holds the people of Gaza hostage. But using that as an excuse to start genocidal carpet bombings that not only kill innocent civilians by the thousands, half of them children, some of them journalists, aid workers, doctors and teachers; it also is not self defense anymore not even by any imaginary stretch.

Palestine is not Hamas. Hamas is not Palestine.

None of this is right. Not the atrocious terrorist attack by Hamas on October 7th with the indiscriminately killing of Israeli civilians, not the hostage taking, not the carpet bombing, not the indiscriminate killing of civilians by the Israeli military, not the blatant disregard of human rights, not the war crimes committed by a state that should know better, not the dislocation of Palestinians for the past 75 years, not the ongoing effort of members of the Israeli government to deflect from their atrocities by citing “they’re used as human shields by bad people” - they might as well add “their bad!” -, not the long standing blockade of Gaza, not the ongoing and ramped up forced displacement of Palestinians in the West Bank and sure as shit not the blindness and support for all of this by the western states.

No child, anywhere, should have to die for all our leaders inability to seek multilateral peace. No child anywhere should have to suffer because of our leaders inability to be fair to one another, to accept one another, to respect one another, to value one another, to let one another live in peace and prosperity.

No mother, no father, anywhere, should have to bury their children because of our leaders inability to be decent human beings.

It’s time we hold all our leaders accountable.

#freepalestine #free palestine #free gaza #stop war #stop killing children #stop our leaders #allpoliticiansarefascists #daily nightmare

[favroitecrime]

Do you believe that the Israeli children murdered are culpable for the crimes of their government?

I think we both agree that Palestinian children and Palestinian civilians are not valid military targets, despite what Netanyahu and the Israeli government may claim, but do you believe the same applies to children who are being raised in Israel?

gonna need you to point to where i said otherwise bestie

but to entertain the question(s) in full:

I’ve overstated how much I believe children should never be victims & sexual violence is also never excused. I’d never stand & advocate for the lives of Palestinian (& Syrian & Congolese & Sudanese & Armenian & Puerto Rican & Polynesian &&&&) children whilst simultaneously wishing unwell on another group of children.

But there’s a lot of things I hate about this framing & it’s that first and foremost, the children are not the only ones that matter here. What good is saving the children if they’re stripped of the elders of their family? What good is sparing the life of a disabled Palestinian girl in Gaza being wheeled from the North to the South by her father if you’re going to arrest her father and leave her stranded to be saved by other passer-bys? What good is saving the children if they’re wishing they died along their parents?

Second, not only are the civilians not valid military targets, they’re not targets at all. None of them deserve to suffer. None of them deserve to bury their dead in mass graves. None of them deserve to be killed whilst seeking shelter in schools, hospitals, mosques, churches, etc. None of them deserve to starve for days on end & no water in sight. None of them deserve to watch their mass graves dug up and over 100+ of their loved ones’ bodies being taken away by israeli forces to god knows where (likely the skin bank, where they harvest Palestinian organs for their own). They deserve none of it. Hamas could be in every damn room in every damn building and it still could never justify anything, let alone being military targets.

Third, it should shame you by now to STILL shift the narrative to israel & israelis whilst discussing Gaza or Palestine. Enough already. It’s been 41 days. We’ve condemned enough. The conversation cannot be redirected to straw-man arguments & questions meant to what? Pull out a scandalous answer? Was I expected to say yes I see the kids as military targets? What’s your next step knowing my answer is no?

Finally, the government lied. The israeli government has lied repeatedly. They’ve been putting out numbers of their victims ranging from 1200-1500 and just announced today that they’ve overstated how many of them died because it turns out 200 of those bodies were bodies of Palestinians. Which begs the question, if they were so torched and barely recognizable, who did the torching? Why did they silence the interview of one of the survivors as she says that the IOF were largely responsible for the death of multitudes? Why is it they’re interviewing soldiers who were on duty that day who’ve said their orders were to target anything that moved? An israeli plan was mass killing everyone at the music festival because the orders were to go for anything that moved.

Mere days after the initial invasion/“attack”, one of the women who was held in her home with her children went on an interview and said they didn’t harm them at all. They stayed for two hours, one even politely asking for a banana, before quietly shutting the door behind them. Her youngest was so undisturbed they kept tapping away on their tablet. Hamas may not be complete angels, but they’re not barbarians. They’re not savages. Children would never be their main targets, nor targets at all. Any dead children were either caught in a crossfire or much more likely killed by the IOF.

I reject the narrative that I, or anyone else in defense of Palestine, agree with the death of children (no matter who they are). I reject the idea that I, or anyone else in defense of Palestine, would be okay with acts of sexual violence being committed to anyone. And I refuse to cover up the atrocities happening in Palestine with any sympathies you expect me to extend to israel.

Children should never be victims. Including Palestinian children. Free Palestine. 🇵🇸

#tag: asks #free palestine #idk why the first thing you think of when it comes to this is israel but like genuinely what kind of answer were you expecting me to give?

[originalleftist]

Let me spell this out:

If you oppose the oppression of Palestinians, the blockade of Gaza, or indiscriminate bombing of civilians, etc, I agree with you. If you support a two-state solution, if you support a ceasefire, we have no quarrel.

But if you support the murder of Israeli children, if you support the r*pe of Israeli women, or if you support the harassment or dehumanization or murder of Jews (who are not synonymous with Israelis, but are often treated as though they are), then your view on this subject is, in fact, essentially the same as the Nazis.

And I don't really care if you think you're supporting the liberation of Palestine or being anti-colonialist or anything else. If you are in agreement with Hitler's "final solution", then you are DEFINITIONALLY not a Leftist, progressive, anti-racist, anti-oppression, anti-white supremacy, or fucking anti-genocide in any way. You are just genocidal, white supremacist Nazi trash.

I'm not looking to persuade anyone. If you believe that the murder of children can be justified as "anti-oppression", that those children had it coming because of their nationality of birth, or that murdering Jews is in fact anti-racist, then your mind and soul are broken, and fixing them is beyond my abilities. But I do wish to state where I stand, and to warn others of the danger.

The ultimate end point of this Orwellian perversion, of equating being anti-genocide (of Palestinians) to being pro-genocide (of Israelis or Jews), is to erase the distinction altogether, until it is not possible to actually BE anti-genocide- you can only choose which people you think should be exterminated. And if this continues, and especially if more and more of GenZ continues to equate being anti-racist and anti-colonialist with being antiSemitic, there will soon be no anti-fascist alternative left at all.

And yes, there are also white supremacist fascists supporting Israel. And both Hamas and Republican Zionists are getting backing from the Kremlin, because Vladimir Putin has all but perfected the tactic of playing two extremes against each other to maximize chaos and violence, and his ultimate goal, and the goal of men like him, is neither the victory of Israel nor the victory of Hamas, but the division and destruction of more democratic societies.

And we're still falling for it.

And frankly, all this is undoubtably a big part of why the state of Israel exists, and why it is so important to so many Jewish people to have their own homeland. Because even in "liberal" communities in 21st Century America, there is a not insignificant percentage of the population that wants to exterminate them, and believes that they have it coming, simply for being Jews. And this did not come about as a response to Israel's crimes in Palestine. It has been around for literally thousands of years. So what other country can Jewish people truly trust to welcome them, or keep them safe?

Israel might be the oppressor now, but historically, Jews (who are not synonymous with the state or government of Israel in any case) have been among the most oppressed and marginalized. And everywhere but Israel, THEY STILL ARE.

#Israel #Palestine #Gaza #Nazis #Hypocrisy #Russia #AntiGenocide

[msfbgraves]

I stand with the UN

I understand that Jewish people, after 2 millenia of persecution, need a safe space. Israel still seems about the only place on earth where being Jewish does not automatically make you vulnerable for persecution. Terrorist attacks are not persecution, in my view. Still, Hamas' attack was a terrorist attack against many innocent Israeli and a great crime. In this I stand with the UN.

I too stand with the UN in absolute condemnation of the Israeli war crimes in response to Hamas' terrorist attacks. I feel that the international community should do all it can to stop what I can only describe as a genocide on the Palestian people in order to seize and settle Gaza. The Israeli government has actively colonised and oppressed Palestine for decades, and this is, so far, a culmination of oppression that 2 millenia of antisemitism does not excuse or justify.

Judaism, antisemitism and Israeli politics are distinctly different things and Israel is trying to justify genocide by claiming they are fighting antisemitism. They aren't. This is colonialism in action and it is hurting millions of every creed and fueling antisemitism. Which they very likely know and try to use for justification of further war crimes and imperialism. While destroying evidence of the same.

Yes, as my newspaper keeps crying, this fuels antisemitsm and hate crimes. Sure. But the Israeli government is committing genocide under our noses. That causes a lot of hate. Plus, they know they're are putting Jewish people at risk and it's not stopping them.

No, the Israeli government's actions do not excuse antisemitism; they shouldn't cause it. Jewish does not equal Zionist and they need protection same as anybody targeted for hate crimes- like many Muslims worldwide have been since 2001 as well.

But the Israeli government is methodically killing a whole country to be able to occupy the rubble and covering up the evidence, and very likely sacrificing Hamas' hostages to do so too.

It had so many other choices. But it chose genocide.

They're hoping to stave off accountability and may, for a time. But not forever, the world has seen them do it. We know.

It may take decades, but they will be held accountable. And I want that to be by trial in the ICC.

#personal

[khaleesiofalicante]

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cyry-3buwe0/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Hi Dani,

I'm sorry if this post is a bit harsh, but it's very hard for me to see that everyone is screaming “genocide” without understanding the true meaning of the word and without mentioning a word about what happened on October 7th in Israel (maybe you really haven't heard enough about it, so please go read about it, from reliable sources pls!) and not mentioning the more than 200 Israelis kidnapped to Gaza, including babies, children, elderly and holocaust survivors, who are there for over than 2 weeks and their families know nothing about their well-being!

so please read why everything started and what happened in Israel on 7/10 (Israel has the right to defend itself, Israel has warned the residents in Gaza many times to evacuate (and many did so!), and yes you should call freePalestine from Hamas!! A terror organization with whom Israel is currently fighting)

Hello love,

I want to make my position clear.

I stand in solidarity with Palestine.

It is important to emphasize that supporting Palestine does not equate to being anti-Semitic. While it is true that some pro-Palestine discussions can include anti-Semitic rhetoric, it is crucial to understand that this arises from years of oppression.

Supporting Palestine does not make someone pro-Hamas. I reiterate: advocating for Palestine does not imply hatred towards Jews or support for terrorism. It signifies our opposition to the policies of the Israeli government and our stance against what we see as a humanitarian crisis involving genocide and ethnic cleansing.

I acknowledge that we may hold differing views on this matter. But it is essential to recognize that the conflict did not start recently; it has deep historical roots spanning 75 years. This is not just a recent 'war' or 'conflict' initiated by Hamas; it is about a decades-old pattern of oppression against the Palestinian people. If we fail to admit this reality, we cannot work towards a solution.

It is entirely possible to condemn Hamas and their actions while acknowledging a simple truth: no one has the right to colonize other people, occupy their land, and dictate their way of life. Every time someone brings up the actions of 'both sides are suffering' in this conflict, it reminds me of the "men get raped too" argument used when discussing gender-based violence. While we don't disregard the suffering on the other side, it's crucial not to overlook the institutional and systematic oppression faced by the minority.

I keep coming back to this quote. I hope we can take a moment to think about this. It speaks volumes to me. Especially now. 

“If you insist on disavowing that which is ugly about what you do,” said Magnus, still looking at Alec, “you will never learn from your mistakes.”

I must emphasize that I am not an expert on this topic, and I am aware of my privilege in being far removed from the violence and catastrophe. I cannot imagine what it must be like to be a citizen of either country right now.

I hope you and your family are safe. You deserve to be. 

As does everyone else. 

#and this will be the first and last 'statement' i write #because i am currently SO physically and emotionally exhausted (because of work) it's not even funny anymore #please kindly stop telling each other who is right and stand against the governments that are LITERALLY funding genocide #okay bye now i literally need to close my eyes for 5 minutes

[itsjustmyunpopularopinion]

Y'know, it's pretty goddamn sad.

When folks'd say "Hitler did nothing wrong" on the Chans, it was done as an edgelord statement to get people's jimmies rustled. Low-effort bait to spark a response. There wasn't any malice intended (for the most part, some folks on Pol take that shit far too seriously), just being edgy because what else were a bunch of outcast degenerates with too much time supposed to do? Be productive members of society? Fuck nah, it was the early-mid '00s, we were at war, just about everyone hated Bush for dragging us into war...and us youth?

Most of us were just trying to stir shit for the sake of entertainment. Crass, yes, but it got results. Most of us have grown since then, matured (for the most part), and moved on...but now, we're sitting here, watching in real fucking time as younger people UNIRONICALLY tout the same bullshit rhetoric that led to the holocaust...without any sort of sense of self-awareness whatsoever.

Like, yes, I get it, Israel is not an innocent party, not by a longshot...HOWEVER, that doesn't justify in the SLIGHTEST what the Hamas Terrorists are doing, and I get it, it's hard for Zoomers to cobble together the jumbled pieces of information as it tumbles down the Social Media Shit Chute of Personal Bias, but for fuck's sake, at least try to be cognizant of the full scope of the situation before trying to act holier-than-thou and giving support to a hate movement that wants to reenact The Final Solution.

Hamas is not Palestine, I get that, but some of you kids really need to get a firm grasp on that notion as well. There is an enemy right now, and their entire premise is to wipe out an entire ethnic group, and nobody, and I mean NOBODY should stand for that.

The only thing necessary for evil to triumph in the world is that good men do nothing