#but I don’t feel like having a discussion about proshipping

[just-antithings]

In my opinion, from what I’ve seen, I think part of the reason fandom spaces are seeing a rise in “not proship, not anti, but a secret third thing: doesn’t care about shipcourse!” is because a lot of younger antis are growing up and realizing how ridiculous the anti mindset is but still feel a lot of shame surrounding it.

They probably also still have anti friends that they’re attached to who would mistreat them if they ever openly discussed being proship. So, instead of being proship, they’re “neutral,” and “just don’t care,” because it gives them wiggle room to explore darker topics without their anti friends harassing them.

Because they still feel that shame and are only slowly growing out of their anti phases, they usually only like the ‘good’ dark topics and still mock and shame the ‘bad’ ones. Or, they’ll say something undeniably aligned with proship beliefs and then backtrack in the same post to appeal to their anti friends. It’s an extension of “I can like bad things because I’m critical about it and no one else is!”

It’ll definitely be a process for them to grow past it, and some will fall entirely back into anti mindsets, but it is often the beginnings of an anti growing as a person; and that isn’t to say anyone has to forgive these people for harmful things they say or do in the process.

I’ve seen it happen quite a few times now, and while it’s obviously not the case for every “I’m neutral, I have a job!” person, I think it’s the case for at least a good handful. I understand the apprehension and frustration a lot of other proship folks have for this type of “neutral,” but I also haven’t (at least personally, I could’ve missed discussions!) seen anyone discuss this angle.

that’s a really good point that I hadn’t thought about

#mod erin #ask #just anti things

[ship-discourse-confessions]

Hey!! Are you a proshipper? Are you an anti? Please read this post, I want engagement from as many people of as many different opinions as possible!

I have a question that I made a temporary sideblog for because I’ve gotten completely different answers depending on who I ask this question (pro vs anti ship)

I fundamentally disagree with a lot of the “talking points” on either side, so I’m not really sure which camp I fit into (and the one I’m assigned usually changes to the opposite of whoever I’m talking to). So I thought it’d be really interesting to see what people have to say about this. I dunno, I like talking, and discussing media. Talk to me about media.

I’ve sorted these into two sections: opinions usually grouped with “proshippers” and opinions usually grouped with “antis.”

Proship Opinions:

Censorship is bad.

We should not censor the internet and banning legal content here is fruitless. It just doesn’t work, and it takes away efforts from restricting actually harmful content.

Harassment is also bad.

Even when the person being harassed is objectively disgusting and vile.

There is never any excuse to tell someone to kill themself. This feels so obvious, why are we even arguing this.

Restricting the content allowed on some sites (AO3) is kinda stupid.

FF.net and Wattpad are living examples of what happens when you restrict written content: it still gets in, but this time completely untagged and with no warning.

I hate AO3’s current policy and I don’t use the site because of that, but the alternative is so much worse, especially considering they can’t afford the extensive mod team that would require.

Just use the block button.

Getting all bent out of shape in someone’s askbox because of their content is completely pointless. You just exhaust yourself and waste your own energy thinking about this person when they definitely don’t give a fuck what you, some bitch on the internet, think of their content.

The easiest solution for your own wellbeing is just to block them and move on. Then you can never think about them again.

Fictional content is never the same as the real thing, and it’s insulting to survivors to insinuate it is.

No children are harmed by the creation of fictional content. Comparing it to real CP is a slap in the face to real survivors.

The concept of “problematic content” being bad by design is kinda dumb.

There are ways to handle anything in fiction tastefully. Your story can cover topics of sexual abuse, murder, exploitation, etc. without being “problematic.”

The reason for the content’s creation and posting greatly changes how it should be viewed and how the creator should be treated.

I’m reminded of Alfred’s Playhouse. It’s so obviously a cry for help, but everyone ignored it because of the gross and shocking subject matter shown. The creator is a disgusting person, but that is unrelated to her creation of Alfred’s Playhouse, a representation of her own real experiences.

It’s… So obvious to me when someone is suffering and using art to vent or call for help. These people aren’t the people we should be talking about when we discuss the handling of sensitive topics in fiction.

Anti Opinions:

The things you create/enjoy completely change the way I view you as a person, fundamentally.

I don’t think you can be a good person and enjoy thinking about fictional children being molested.

I cut people off if I find out they secretly enjoy this content.

Including ex-friends. It hurts and I feel betrayed, but I was not friends with, nor will I ever be friends with, someone who enjoys (whatever).

I think people deserve to know if one of their favorite artists is secretly into something reprehensible.

If a big artist I like had a secret twitter where they posted incest porn, I would be pissed if someone who knew didn’t tell me.

AO3 sucks.

Specifically because of their policy on RPF in reference to (underage) streamers. If someone requests that the NSFW content featuring them be deleted, AO3 should delete it. If someone goes to AO3 and requests they take down a specific fic about them, AO3 should delete it. But they didn’t, and they don’t. So I don’t use AO3.

“Problematic content” should be criticized when it is handled in offensive ways.

There are ways to handle topics such as child abuse, sexual exploitation, etc. tastefully and respectfully to victims, but when creators fail to do this, they deserve to have their treatment of the subject pointed out.

SEE MY ABOVE POINT ABOUT CREATORS WHO ARE SUFFERING, vent art does not fucking count and pointing out the way someone handles their own real experiences in their vent art makes you an asshole.

Proshipping as I’ve seen it looks like such an unhealthy coping mechanism.

To my knowledge, “shipping” means that you enjoy the dynamic between two (or more) characters, typically in a romantic or sexual way. Enjoying the romantic or sexual dynamic between a minor and an adult you headcanon to be grooming them is… So beyond fucked.

This is 100% not my business and I’m never gonna tell someone this, but it’s an opinion I personally hold that I’ve seen attached to antis before.

#proship #proshipper #profic #anti #antiship #antishipper #<= tagged both for reach #someone talk to me about this stuff i find it so interesting and weird

[ghostfoolish]

So this post is kind of a sequel to this post. I wanted to go more in depth as to why I said that but also talk about why I feel like ther term anti and proshipper are both fundamentally broken. Again, I’m speaking from the experience of being an ex-proshipper. I’m neither of the two. I think both sides are bad and reductive. I’ve been on both sides and I’ve seen the toxicity of both sides. Do NOT call me anti and do NOT call me a proshipper.

Anyways even when I still considered myself to be part of that group, the trend with them calling conservatives and right-wingers “antis” started to come about. At first it wasn’t like that. On a surface level an anti was someone who was just an opposite of a proshipper, someone who harassed people in fandoms over ships or characters that they deemed problematic and harmful. Over time I started to notice proshippers calling people antis over minor disagreements and eventually they started calling actual bigots antis. By that point I started to become frustrated because this word that had a set definition already and actually did have a lot of right wing anti-sjw types in it, started to expand and expand until it became almost like an umbrella term for anything that was of the left.

Is an anti someone that harasses people over ships?

Is an anti a conservative/right winger/puritan?

Is an anti someone who doesn’t like proshippers?

Is an anti someone who doesn’t like a certain ship or character?

Is an anti someone who disagrees with a proshipper during a discussion?

And this isn’t stuff that I just pulled out of my ass, these are all different groups of people that ive seen proshippers call antis. If it’s all of the above then you’re grouping in actual dangerous political groups or people who want those groups to thrive with someone like me. Which is fucked up because conservatives/ right wingers/ puritans wants to eradicate me. That’s why I tell proshippers to not call me that (they do it anyways) because the term anti is too broad and encompasses too many things, just like the term proshipper.

Proship started off as “people who don’t harass others over ships and believe that fiction doesn’t affect reality in a 1:1 way.”

But now? I’ve seen proshippers say that proshipping is pro freedom of expression, pro-free speech, anti harassment, anti censorship, anti racism, pro lgbtq+ etc. Basically it is everything that is left leaning and everything that I also stand for. BUT. I’ve had them come to me over and over and tell me that it doesn’t matter that I’m left leaning, that I’m black, that I’m queer, that Im against harassment or hate speech or pro free speech or whatever. The mere fact that I think that shipping drama shouldn’t come up in discussions about real world topics and that complaining about “antis” when a post is talking about trans issues is tone deaf, was enough for them to label me an anti and much MUCH worse.

Things that are actually bad and actually dangerous are sharing the same label with things that aren’t. In the eyes of proshippers Iam on the same level as a person who wants me dead and has killed, tortured and attacked my people for decades and decades. When people genuinely believe that, it creates an all or nothing mentality. You’re either a proshipper or you’re a person who is a fascist or at the very least, supports fascism and im not using fascist randomly, it’s because I was called a fascist and a nazi for the same post that I mentioned above.

That “either your for us or against us” mentality is how you get absolutely insane coo coo takes like this

Where people insinuate that being a proshipper/supporting proshippers is somehow intrinsic to being queer and that setting up boundaries for them to not interact with you is seen as you forgetting your own people’s history…

Mind you, the proshipping community is mostly made up of white people and there is a racism problem in it that I’ve had to witness, ended up taking part in and was the victim of MULTIPLE times. And some of it is because they will slap the anti label onto anyone.

You know what happens when you’re labeled an anti by a proshipper? They show no sympathy towards you because they believe that antis are/ support oppressors. When you are labeled as an anti they don’t take the time to differentiate if you are Anti: Genuine Bigot Flavored™️ or Anti: Minor Disagreement Flavored™️. They just come at you as if you are actively trying to take away their rights.

This causes someone to go through harassment and this includes racist harassment.

And when a person who had to endure harassment from them says “hey I got fucking harassed, dog pilled and got slurs spammed in my inbox by y’all only for saying that I don’t like proshippers” they counteract it by saying “Woah! Sorry you went through that but those weren’t proshippers. We don’t stand for that, only antis harass people. So those were really antis!”

I’ve seen this happen and said over and over and over and it’s even been said to me after I was harassed.

Telling people that they have to let proshippers engage with them even if it is triggering to do or else you are an anti (everything they deem as oppressive) is almost cult-like.

TL;DR

“Anti” is a label that encompasses too many things which include acts of actual oppression with benign disagreements on ships and characters and because of this, it often groups in oppressors with the groups they seek out to oppress.

#thought long and hard about making a post like this #proshipping #antishipping #fandom #fandom racism

[maiappas]

..

starting over on a new account feels liberating, but also scary, but also kinda pointless...? i’ve been using tumblr since 2010 and the landscape has changed so much. post engagement is at an all time low, and besides, none of my old mutuals are still around… even if they were, i wouldn’t know how to reach out to them to tell them i have this new account.

honestly, i have no idea how to connect with people and find friends as someone who ships pretty much anything. it feels like most people ship a specific ship and don’t like its ‘rival’ ships, especially if said ships are considered “problematic.” i have a couple friends from previous fandoms who enjoy both zutara and zucest, but that’s about it.

i’m also kinda terrified to be harassed off any platform (again)??? haha… i long for the days when people actually adhered to ‘don’t like don’t read’ and respected each other’s business. i don’t like to use the terms proship or profic for myself, even though i am by definition. i just think it complicates things and solidifies my position in the ‘proship/anti’ discourse, despite me wanting nothing to do with said discourse.

i guess i feel like i will have accomplished something if i can meet just a handful of people who share my interests on here, but it’s probably a weird metric to measure ‘success’ on when that type of thing is out of my control. maybe i will feel more accomplished if i draw x amount of fanart or write x amount of fic? but then i fall into the trap of treating myself as a content-creation machine, even though i’m just a guy who likes to create things sometimes. that mindset is probably a remnant of being some form of ‘tumblr-famous’ since i was a young teen. i am still trying to undo the damage that did on my mental health lol

i suppose it doesn’t help that this is a pretty old fandom, and that its recent revival is attributed to the netflix live action, which i have very little interest in discussing. it feels a bit lonely here, is all.

i guess as long as i’m here, i’ll keep writing and drawing these self-indulgent things and keep putting them out there, without expecting any results— just a labor of the love i have for the series. it’s the best i can do for now!

#mai talks #just some fandom-related things i wanted to get off my chest #i am trying to get over the inner voice that tells me that talking about my ‘feelings’ is ‘cringe’

[beevean]

Hey it’s so called this morning’s anon back with more things to say I suppose…

I supposed I wanted to elaborate on some things, I know you said you didn’t wanna start discourse but I really wanted to elaborate on what I meant by that proshipping comment. The term proship, from what I heard, has gone from let people ship what they want and if you don’t like don’t look to… This person is a disgustingly vile subhuman and their death should be celebrated.

Funnily enough I openly ship problematic stuff, but I constantly over complicate things to prove that I’m still better than ‘those guys’, to say that I have morality and ‘they’ don’t… But it’s so fucking exhausted. My life wasn’t good and moral and pure so why does my art have to be?

I’m sick of fearing I’ll have someone genuinely threaten my life because I cope differently than them. Ironically I used to get mad when people say it was their coping mechanism, calling it a shitty excuse to be a whatever [You can insert all kinds of fun and degrading terms there] and yet… I was doing the same thing.

So yeah… I don’t like everything but I’m realizing that everything has its place and if that makes me a proshipper then fuck it I guess I’m a proshipper

[After reading all those kind messages I wanted some way to reveal myself because surprise you actually know who I am! But I wasn’t sure how to do that without outing myself so openly… I read your Hevor fic and told you about it on Discord, it’s the only thing we ever discussed. So yeah if you manage to figure me out based on that alone then congratulations! Purity culture is ruining my life so bad I can’t even say my own name! ;3]

fdjskfksdngksjdhk talk about efficient secret codes lmao. Yes I understand now 😄

That's pretty much what happened. "Proship" started as a countermovement to the "anti" culture budding around 2016 who were all like "Sheith is actually incest because they're like brothers and that's gross guys!!!!", and at first it meant simply "ship and let ship", but then it got twisted into meaning "someone who enjoys problematic ships/ships with incest, pedophilia and/or abuse", which inevitably leads to "this person has Something Wrong with them and they're a Bad Person who Hurts people like me with their Degenerate Art! Pedo alert pedo alert! PUNISHMENT FOR A THOUSAND YEARS".

The problem is that "enjoys" means a lot of things :^) there is a difference between "aww they're so cute <3", "welp this is a kink now", and "wow this would be incredibly fucked up but I am intrigued to explore this story". But nuance is not allowed, apparently.

(fun fact: I don't really go through proship blogs because I swear they all ship sibling incest. I hate sibling ships lmao, especially when they're wholesome. But of course they're all in the "will accept anything" community, after being pretty much shunned and painted as horrible abusers who deserve to be hurt and worse - and just because I don't want to see those ships, that doesn't mean I think they're bad people who condone real-life abuse. So yeah, proship is not about having all the grossest ships in the world, you can be exclusively into the most vanilla M/F ships ever and still think "yo do what you want I'll respect you from a distance")

I also hear similar stories like yours, of people who twist themselves into pretending to be antis and be morally "purer" than others when in private they were doing the same things they were insulting others for, just with tons of shame and denial. Not judging you and I'm happy when people realize that this behavior is harmful, definitely more than being into the Problematic lol... I'm just disappointed and frustrated that the internet culture has come to this. I reiterate my points about surrounding yourself with friends who don't make you feel like you have to walk on eggshells.

Also real talk: you don't really have to psychoanalyze yourself. Maybe your tastes are tied to an easily identifiable reason, or maybe they aren't or the reason goes too deep to explore without outside help. In any case, it doesn't matter. You don't have to justify yourself in any way, let alone showing to everyone the "I'm Coping With Trauma" badge in the hopes they will forgive you - because it doesn't work. It's never about the mental health of victims, it's about "i feel icky and i don't want to :("

Disgust is not harm. You (general) have every right to be disgusted by something - I myself am not above it :P But it's not a personal attack against you, and it's your responsibility to walk away and coping with your feelings in private.

#important #proship #again the discourse can get way too complicated and nuanced #and these may feel like milquetoast stances lol #but... guess they're not and some people really have to be told 'please don't suicide bait someone because they ship a 17 yo and a 19 yo' #something something funny how antis will scream about the normalization of abuse and incest #when they have normalized threatening real people with real harm in a quirky way

[sister-lucifer]

Why even bother putting proship dni in your bio when you literally write rape porn? You are not any better than those types of people lmfao.

yk, i wasn’t originally gonna answer this, but i think this is actually an important discussion. long post ahead, be weary.

[tw for discussion of rape, sexual assault, pedophilia, and incest. stay safe.]

first things first: i don’t want this post to come off angry. I’m not, i understand why you might feel this way. this is a complex and nuanced situation that can be hard to wrap your head around

i’m not a puritan, i don’t mind dark/problematic content inherently, i know big shocker! but there’s a difference between writing something and glorifying it as though it is a positive.

all of my potentially triggering fics are FLUSH with warnings, because warnings are important! i know that what i’m writing is…well, intense! very intense for some people! and that’s ok! i can accomplish the balancing act that is writing what i want while still doing the most I can to keep my audience safe and comfortable.

every once in a while i’ll come across one of those stepcest or age gap fics while on my nightly search for smut, and i scroll by them without a thought because they, they’ve been properly marked with warnings and tagged, i have no business here.

but there’s a big different between that and trying to romanticize these things.

when i write my non/dub con fics, it’s obvious (or at least it should be obvious) that the aggressor is, to put it bluntly, a massive piece of shit. youre supposed to feel afraid or even a bit uncomfortable, because that isn’t a normal situation. you are not supposed to view those scenarios as just “oh another cutesy ship fic” because that’s not that they are. they’re dark and dirty and should be treated as such.

thats what i think makes a lot of the difference between me and actual proshippers: how the relationships are portrayed and how the author wants you to feel towards the aggressor or more powerful person in the relationship.

for a good example of everything i’m against, i suggest watching this video over blogthegreatrouge. here’s the spark notes version:

Rouge repeatedly featured rape, sexual assault, and pedophilic relationships in their comics. now if handled well, i wouldn’t be saying anything. but you are supposed to feel bad for the rapists and predators. you are supposed to sympathize with them and see their literal crimes as just “oh they were only trying to get their crush’s attention, so it’s ok!” but it’s not. i know that, you know that, Rouge SHOULD know that, and yet she’s portraying these things as normal relationships to an audience of children, which Rogue is definitely aware of. on top of that all of the triggering material is unmarked, meaning anyone could stumble upon it.

THIS is what I have an issue with. THIS is what actual proshippers do. and this is inherently harmful, because anyone who isn’t already mature enough to understand that this is wrong will take those experiences with them and it could put them in harms way. a child who sees that could think it’s okay, and potentially not speak up about abuse because of it.

for further examples of what i’m against, check this video as well. these authors are writing about taboo relationships which feature incest and often the young girl is only 17 or 18. i don’t think writing about these things in and of itself is bad, in fact i think there’s much discussion to be had around these issues, but glorifying them to an audience of young girls as if it’s the perfect romance is not the move! seriously, if you go to the amazon reviews for these books, too many of them are teenage girls talking about how they with their stepdad/teacher/dad were like this. THAT is a bad move.

Or what about the Killing Stalking scandal? maybe people criticize killing stalking because it “glorifies” abuse and murder, but if you actually read it, it doesn’t do that. it’s supposed to make you feel uncomfortable and gross, it’s supposed to be HORROR, not romance! the only reason it has the reputation it does is because anime review youtubers brought the comic to their audience of young people who weren’t mature enough to grasp the layers and nuance of what they were reading. killing stalking is a good comic, but all of its goodness is lost in the sea of teenage girls who have no idea what they’re reading.

any of my fics featuring non/dub con are NOT supposed to be cutesy or romantic. they’re supposed to be gross. that’s me looking at you and saying “isn’t that so fucked up? isn’t that wild? isn’t this guy such a gross piece of shit?”

Black Christmas (1974) once said: “If this movie doesn’t make your skin crawl, it’s on too tight.”

If my fics don’t make your skin crawl, it’s on too tight! this is a space where you can come and be gross and yucky and then return to your normal daily life unaffected, because i expect that everyone reading my fics is old and mature enough to understand that you are not supposed to sympathize with the aggressors, you are supposed to see them as the nasty swamp creatures they are. and if i find that they arent, then that’s what the block button is for!

this is a space where we can ask “hey, wouldn’t it be fucked up if x happened?” and have that question answered in an equally fucked up manner, because there’s an inherent understanding that everything that happens in those fics is, in fact, fucked up.

i hope this answers your question, anon.

#i’ve got mail! #fanfic writing #dark fic #serious #important

[dragon-pawz]

Does it count if it's both extremely bad and extremely good at the same time? Cuz that's what I'd say for the Omori fandom lmao

The way some (most ig) of the fandom treats Kel is horrible, and the proship problem is fucking insane with this fandom, yet at the same time if you just hang around the right corner of the fandom I SWEAR the shit this fandom does is SO COOL I've never been in a fandom that's this cool before. I don't even know how to explain lol but it's just, really nice

Yeah, I have some feelings about the omori fandom. I love that it’s very creatively active for an indie game like that! Tho I feel like there’s a ton of kids in the fandom? Like 14-16 year olds. And a lot of that lack of understanding of nuance and such I think comes from younger people. I gotta keep telling myself not to get into discussions/debates with people like that lol

I’ve definitely seen young people that are in this fandom running blogs and don’t know how to interact with an audience in a healthy controlled manner and it drives me crazy sometimes

#yes 14-16 yo people are kids #and often don’t have as developed media literacy and critical thinking skills from lack of experience #or just having brains still in development (I was a teen trust me when I say your brains are definitely still in development) #I don’t mean any of this in an offensive way! #not art #ramble #ask #anon

[misfit-mania-the-first]

Okay I know this is old news or whatever but I am so mad about how much hate the artist/author of Boyfriends on WEBTOON gets.

From when I was more into the comic, the main reason ppl had to be upset at the person were:

A) They drew BTS nsfw art in their teens

B) They fetishized trans men

C) The characters are all Asian and do not look Asian

D) They had the nerd say he was a proshipper

These reasons are honestly so bad to me. Idk if anyone else has extra info or maybe something else he did was bad, but I’m going to explain why I think these are such bad reasons.

1. BTS nsfw art

I’m just going to come out and say it’s bad to write or draw fanart/fanfics of any real person if they haven’t given consent to. It’s different from characters because these are Real People with real emotions and such. And yeah, that wasn’t good. But a couple things. They stopped drawing it around 17-19. For some people that’s way too old to be drawing that, and many think that it’s an attempt at an excuse.

I don’t think that’s the case. I can’t tell you how many posts I’ve seen online of people having bombastic crushes on singers and actors and doing the most heinous shit because they were teenagers. Teenagers just Do That. Yes it’s creepy, but many people go through a phase of having to learn how to seperate fiction from reality and it’s in your teen years. It’s not odd, and I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility to consider that a 17-18-19 year old would learn that and send out an apology. I mean our brains apparently don’t even develop till 25. There was also one point that many believed that the artist actually liked someone else’s nsfw BTS art recently, but I saw the post they liked and in my opinion…I had no idea who tf they were drawing. I’m not into BTS but I’ve seen pictures and if I was just scrolling one day and saw it I’d like the post. I don’t remember any BTS specific tags or a BTS related caption. Maybe the entire account was about that and so they didn’t feel the need for tags but I have no idea.

2) They fetishized trans men

Writing four trans men acting stupid and cringy in college and having healthy relationships and discussing boundaries and consent in a polyamorous relationship is not fetishizing. The artist himself is a trans man.

Sidebar, many critiques also center around the unrealistic portrayal of four ppl being in one polyamorous relationship together which honestly? Who cares if it’s unrealistic, it’s a good portrayal and it’s a romance, why can’t gays just have a happy story for once.

3) The characters are all Asian and do not look Asian

Hey, I didn’t know they were Asian either. I mean, I figured jock was but not the others. But honestly it’s not that big a deal. They’re the only four characters in the entire series I believe( other than their girl counterparts) and I’m sure if there was another character that wasn’t Asian we’d be able to tel. But even then, many many comics have a similar simplistic artstyle online, and race and ethnicity are not always obvious. Also the artist is Filipino, so I really doubt there’s anything iffy going on there.

4) Nerd is a proshipper

There’s nothing bad about thinking fiction ≠ reality and that you can act independently of the fiction you consume. Most people irl are proship without realizing it. Most literature is proship, because it explores every single aspect of storytelling. Antis really have not chosen the best hill to die on.

And that’s all I’ve got.

#boyfriends #boyfriends webtoon #proshipping

[hxllishrebuke]

God this one's gonna be a doozy bc I was talking to this person privately but they've asked me themselves to share these after blocking out names all except for one { and i'll share why when i get to it. }

Note; Loke at the time had their rules to 21+, and then here basically says it's bc they've known this person long enough and that they're awesome. Instantly goes into suggesting shipping + aging up characters. This is a problem because the person in question rps clemont at canon age hence the " i will think about it though. "

I'm sharing this one w/ the name of Fairymint untagged because I was informed by someone else that this was a lie that Loke told and that no, they didn't actually steal HC's despite the claims. It feels like a false accusation just because they blocked a bunch of us { because they blocked me too and loke actually asked me about them as well but I did not really know fairymint that well if at all so I could not give a proper response as to why or when I was blocked by them }

They wanted me to share this because it felt very guilt trippy over the fact that Loke basically pulled this over i'm guessing was either an accidental soft block or maybe a soft block on purpose ?? either way it gives off a very " i know you unfollowed me " type of vibe and practically begging to be refollowed.

They asked what proship meant and this is how loke answered. I'd like to add to this and say that yes, this is how loke constantly explained proshipping to the rest of us whenever the subject was brought up to get heat off of " problematic shipping " as the label for proship and she constantly fights this battle every time it's mentioned to the point she gets carried away or even hostile about it.

and then this one, which i'm just gonna share the cap i took from what they said to me directly about this

they admit they were very naive and I'd like to add that this person in question was 18-19 at the time of all of these discussions. Seeing as they range from 2022 to 2023.

I'd share more but that'd out who they are and I don't want them being harassed by loke and her cronies.

Posting as is…

I have no words. This paints Loke is a very gross and predatory light.

Loke willingly broke her own 21 and over rule to interact with this individual who wasn’t even 20… Absolutely no words.

This folks is why Loke gets documented. They’re a predatory individual looking for young people to influence and sink her claws into.

Also Loke the proship community would hate you for actually grooming a child. Don’t act like the community would be okay with you.

#loke

[livelaughalicecullen]

Victoriya Bachinski “The Most Rambunctious Girl in Town”

Age: 13

Aries: Sign of energy

Catchphrase: “You do not know heartbreak until you find out that Lena Katina and Julia Volkova were not actually lesbians…….But “All The Things She Said” will always be a masterpiece”

Backstory: When Victoriya was just 10 she and her older brother, Mischa, were put up for adoption due to their mother becoming sick after working as a cleaner in Chernobyl. Little did they know, their adoptive parents were told they were receiving a Ukrainian toddler and Ukrainian infant. Instead they received one teenager and one pre-teen. They were both kept in the basement because they couldn’t just send them back. She co-founded the St. Cassian Coven, which may sound like a cult but it’s really just a midnight vampire roleplay group.

Some random facts abt her

She is neurodivergent and she’s hyperfixated(?)on the Twilight saga.

She made Mischa watch all of the Twilight movies.

In return she watched all of the Saw movies.

Mischa regularly brings her to choir practice because their adoptive parents don’t pick them up from school so Mischa drives them home.

The rest of the choir really likes her.

Except at some point Ocean started to criticize Twilight so she chucked a book at her.

Penny also brings Ezra. So him and Victoriya hang out.

(Btw i headcanon that St. Cassian is middle school through high school so her and Mischa are in the same school)(although this might be canon because Ezra and Penny are in the same school)

(OOC stuff under cut)

OOC//

hi. I am Rags/Twyla, my main blog is @iheartfinalgirls I came here to say that I am open to literate/semi-literate roleplaying either in Tumblr dm’s or Discord (My Discord is ragsisdead) :)

RP prompts I WILL do

-AU’s 

-Anything horror related (PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE 🙏/hj I apologize my special interest is special interest-ing)(This mostly includes supernatural horror rp’s such as ghost, demons, possessions, vampires, werewolves, slashers, etc.)

-Fluff (As long as it’s familial and/or platonic)

-Crack rp’s

-Hurt and comfort (Again, as long as it’s familial and/or platonic)

RP prompts I will NOT do

-NO NSFW!!!!!! (My muse is a minor for gods sake + I’m just not comfortable with doing nsfw rp’s in general)

-Along with nsfw, NO PROSHIPPING

-I’m a little iffy about shipping

-No horror au’s that rely too heavily on gore, I want PLOT, I want SUBSTANCE, NOT JUST UNNECESSARY GORE (It can have gore but the story can’t rely too much on it y’know?)

Other things

-I can rp with any canon Ride the Cyclone/Legoland character and oc’s as well

-I have social anxiety so I struggle with interacting first (but don’t feel too pressured to start an rp, I’m just saying that I struggle with making the first move)

-It’s okay to remind me to reply if I take too long

-I don’t have a lot of experience with semi-lit/literate rp’s so please be nice/ hj

-Make sure to discuss a prompt first so before we start an rp

and um that’s it. If anybody wants to rp, my Tumblr dm’s and Discord are open :)

#ride the cyclone #ride the cyclone oc #roleplay account #Victoriya bachinski #mischa bachinski #rtc ocs #ride the cyclone headcanons #ocean o'connell rosenberg #noel gruber #ricky potts #jane doe #penny lamb #constance blackwood #ezra lamb

[xx-slug-xx]

lol they are talking me about my post regarding sexual fantasies not equating real life sexual desires ;)

I’m sorry, but I’m baffled by the fact that people lack critical thinking skills so much that they cannot understand that I was explicitly talking about fantasy in the sexual context. That’s why the deffiniton of fantasy I my post is the same as sexual fantasy. That is the deffiniton I am useing in the context of the post, not that fantasy only means something sexual. I cannot believe I have to make sure that’s clear, holy shit I didn’t think it was necessary either given context clues. I did not mention other types of fantasy’s in the original post because I just didn’t talk about it. It wasn’t relevant to me at the time. I did discuss other sorts of fantasies in reblogs of the post though.

And I stand by my point that, yes, if someone tells someone that their sexual fantasy’s equal real life desires 100% of the time, it is absolutely queerphobic. If I need to explain why, for the second time, I would be more than happy to.

They are correct, fantasies are normal, everyone has them. Aces can even have sexual fantasies without actually wanting to have sex irl. That’s the point of my post. The fact that they were unable to understand that I made a post that supports their claims tells me that literacy is dead smh.

The fact that they call my pinned “questionable” is proof to me that they have no clue what they are talking about. At the very least, I really don’t see why my pinned would be questionable. Is it because I’m proship? Prokink? Do I support the very things that make them feel yucky and they don’t understand that yucky mess doesn’t mean the same as bad? Who knows. Smh this person wasn’t my target audience I guess :/

I feel like peoples critical thinking skills have gone down the drain tbh

Also, the only reason I’m being at all mean to op is because they made some kinda nasty comments towards me, gave me a deffiniton for “fantasy” as if I don’t know what that word means, made this vague post about me, and blocked me so I couldn’t reply or do anything. I’m just being petty in the face of pettiness basically. I will not be giving out any name and if y’all find it, don’t engage, I’m mostly just complaining lol especially when they could have just ignored me if I bothered them so much. Or like, idk, asked me directly to clear things up since it seems like they misunderstood my post completely :/

#proship #profic #anti anti #profiction #anti censorship #comship #anti harassment

[echoes-lighthouse]

Proship vs. Anti (A Personal Manifesto)

I define the difference between ‘proship’ and ‘anti’ as basically being whether you can judge a person’s future actions by their taste in fiction, and I strongly believe that’s not true. 

Antis believe that consuming problematic media makes you more likely to do problematic things in the future (ie. incest fics will lead to irl incest, etc), whereas proshippers believe that most people can separate fiction/fantasy and reality, and understand that enjoying dark fiction doesn’t mean those things are ok in real life. 

I believe that kinks and fiction are all a matter of playacting, and are not an indicator of deeper desire. Participating in BDSM doesn’t make someone abusive if all parties are consenting. Selfshipping with an underage character doesn’t make someone attracted to real minors. 

So here’s the short version of my views on fictional limits! 

I support people shipping themselves with villains, including “irredeemable” ones

I support people shipping themselves with characters out of their age range, although I’m personally more comfortable with aging up or down the character or self-insert if there’s a minor/adult gap

I genuinely don’t care what fanfiction people write, but I am usually uncomfortable with bloggers who identify themselves as particularly attached to problematic tropes (ie. specifically seeking out incest ships over other ships)

I do support open conversation about problematic elements in media, but I don’t typically support the outright banning of fandoms (I’m more conflicted about problematic actors, artists, or youtubers with large followings, but it’s complicated)

I think it’s quite cute when people selfship with celebrities in their own head/notebooks (I know a lot of people have married celebrities in their daydreams), but I have more complicated feelings about posting publicly about selfships with real people, and I haven���t settled on one side or the other

I have strict limits on content that involves real people (videos of assault, explicit content of minors, and posts that encourage harm or provide ‘how to’ guides for sexual assault) and I WILL report any of that, because it is different from fictional content and causes active harm

I am deeply unsettled by positivity posts for problematic fancontent that actively paints it as ‘cute’ or ‘desirable’ but I also understand it comes from a place of reacting to fandom negativity? I’m conflicted on this. 

If you have questions about any of these, feel free to send an ask or a message: I’m very open to discussions in good faith and will do my best to explain myself! 

--

Why Am I Proship?

I grew up selfshipping with a lot of villains, and in those daydreams, our age gaps were often a large feature of my writing and fantasies. I was selfshipping with villains by age six, including creating self-insert fanfiction, but when I was eleven I gravitated towards Nolan’s Joker and really settled in. At the time, I didn’t know about online fandoms: I was an isolated autistic nerd who very much identified as a freak for my interests and the intensity of my obsessions.

I discovered fanfiction two years later, and was overjoyed.

I felt like I wasn’t so weird, and I wasn’t alone, and that there was a space for freaks like me.

In high school, my friends and I had friendly competitions to find the weirdest fics online: cannibalism and unusual kinks and intentionally shocking fics like ‘the [insert noun] fic’ were some of our standard fare, as we competed in teenaged fashion to weird each other out. When we didn’t have weird fics for niche fandoms, we would challenge each other to write them.

Shipping and fandom has never been about my real-life desires, to me: it’s escapism at its finest, into a multiverse of headcanons and fanfictions where nothing affects even the fictional characters for long, with everything shifting from one fanfiction to another. Major character deaths make me cry, and then they come back to life again: relationships build to marriage and then start again from scratch. A ship can be domestic perfection in one story, and a horrific game of manipulation in the next one.

There’s a multitude of reasons why someone might enjoy fanfiction that is triggering to someone else. In my own life, I take comfort in some very strange tropes, including kidnapping (how nice to not have to make any decisions anymore) to omegaverse (what a lovely world where biology makes other people so sensitive to my needs), which I’m aware are NOT real-life desires for myself.

It is genuinely appalling to me that people judge each other so harshly based on their taste in fanfiction and fandom content. I remember being in shipping wars as a teenager: yes, the Wincest shippers were freaks, but they were damn better than the squares who weren’t in fandom at all, and would make fun of all of us for reading fanfiction. And when my friends shipped Wincest, I teased them for being weird and then let them tease me about Hannigram a few years later.

Although I don’t identify 100% with the label proship (I am very concerned about the way that fiction reflects and reinforces our society’s shortcomings, especially with the way it reveals current misogyny, racism, ableism, and tendencies towards oversexualizing teenagers, among other things), I tend to be much more forgiving in fandom, which is mostly created by single people and their fantasies, rather than books and shows that are produced by companies, funded by companies, and designed for mass consumption.

#don't reblog please! #i'm just making mobile links at the moment #tw for shipping discourse under the 'read more' #also if you recognize a different blog from this personal story no you don't :p #me heading into shipping discourse with absolute earnestness and genuine emotion: i'm sure this will be fine

[ghostfoolish]

I have more respect for proshippers who recognize that proshipping is a hobby then the ones who say that being a proshipper is fundamental to being an activist and say that you can’t separate queer history from proshipping. To me those people are just too lost on the fucking sauce and don’t see how stupid and dangerous it is to say that. Whether they want to admit it or not, the proshipping community is overwhelmingly, nauseatingly white and it is mostly made up of white people and it caters to white people. It has always been a place where white feelings come before everything else and where discussions of racism go to die because the only type of “activism” that they know is defending dark fic from angry teenagers.

For them to say that someone like me HAS to endure being in a space full of grown ass white people who do nothing but discourse about fanfiction all day or else I’m just a fascist anti denying my own people’s history is insulting.

#and yea I’m putting this in the main proship tags cause I’m sick of this #proship #proshipping

[is-the-owl-video-cute]

Sorry I'm just trying to keep track of all the blogs- Where do we stand on Scout? I saw someone saying that Scout stands with Agro but I didn't see anything on Scout's blog about that? I'd hate to have to block Scout because I love their cows, but I don't want to accidentally reblog from a bad source to my therian blog. I've already had to go through and delete a lot of posts from people like Page and other people from that thread.

Scout is fine. They sent a message supporting Agro because they’ve been friends for some time and Agro was getting a lot of hate, and they said they want to be left out of this drama which I intend to respect as much as possible, but I do at least want to clarify that all they did was send well wishes to a friend clearly having a hard time. I have received countless anons trying to leverage my hatred for zoophilia as a weapon against Scout by completely misrepresenting the message they sent Agro and blatantly lying, and I don’t want others to fall for it if they receive the same. I don’t want people dragging them into drama they had no part in and wanted no part in.

As I have stated previously, I do believe I gravely misunderstood Agro’s stance and interpretation of that post which they have apparently clarified, and I do not hold anything against them outside minor disagreements we’ve had before. Based on what I understand about what they’ve said, they reblogged it because it suffers from intrusive thoughts and feels a great deal of guilt for them. I don’t have anything against people with intrusive thoughts, the post itself was specifically trying to classify furries and therians as zoophiles as though the label is benign or even applies to either group as a whole. The people to actually avoid would be Aestherians, a-dragons-journal, aevirest, xcekait, smol-paws, and who-is-page as those were the blogs actively normalizing zoophilia. I don’t know the full extent of where Agro falls on any of that, and I don’t really care that much at this point as they confirmed they are not a zoophile and were just experiencing guilt for their intrusive thoughts.

My reply to that post was never intended to single Agro out, it was just the context that lead me to that thread which I was reasonably disturbed by, and I tried to steer the conversation back to just discussing why endorsing zoophilia is wrong but evidently I did not emphasize that enough. From what I’ve been told, I was given misinformation about Agro being a proship and I’m not going to dig through all of its blogs to try to disprove that since I have enough context now to at least know this was all likely a misunderstanding wrt Agro’s involvement. I genuinely want to just leave it alone as it was caught in the crossfire far more than I had anticipated and certainly more than I ever would have intended, and I sincerely hope others do the same because even with the actual zoophile apologists I wanted no further action to be taken than blocking or reporting their posts.

In terms of Agro, I would say that if you are not blocked by it, you can read its posts and make your own judgement based on what you find. I’m respecting its privacy and TOS on the matter and will not be block-evading to stalk through its blog. It will know its own stance better than I do. I regret not making it clearer that my response to that post was not intended to attack Agro and was only intended to respond to what was being said and serve as a free blocklist of people actually adding to the thread.

[bitter-sweet-coffee]

Hi, it's the Anon who sent you the ask that used Jewel the Beetle and talked about maturity levels and called you a pedophile.

So; I wanted to apologize for writing all of that to you and that you had to read that. I've spent a lot of time thinking about that ask since I sent it to you, and I'm not sure if you even remember it, but I felt like I needed to apologize because that was completely out of left field and I never should have written it in the first place. We don't even know anything about each other. I never want to treat a stranger that way ever again and I'm sorry that I had to make you read something like that to realize that about myself.

I'm not asking for forgiveness or anything like that; I just wanted to let you know that I'm genuinely sorry for what I wrote. I hope you have a good day and an amazing life.

Anon! what a lovely lovely message hold on I’m going to unpack this for a second, but I encourage everyone to try and read through this too

For starters, I don’t remember the Jewel ask (maybe tumblr ate it lol) but maybe you mean one of the *other* anon asks where I’ve been called a pedo because if I had a nickel… well, we all know the joke. Not that I need to spell put “I’m not a pedo” on tumblr dot com, but it should be noted that even IF someone is to ship minors with adults in fiction, that doesn’t make them a pedo. I’m not proship nor do I even do this, but it should be pretty clear that cartoon animals are not actual victims, but I’ll pocket this discussion for another time, with the moral being “do not call someone a pedophile unless you have proof they are engaging in sexual behaviour with real living children.”

But… you know this anon. And with absolutely no sarcasm and 100% authentic compassion I want to thank you for this message, and if it’s okay, I’m going to turn it into a bit of a lesson.

IT IS NEVER TOO LATE TO APOLOGIZE FOR SOMETHING. APOLOGIES ARE A GOOD THING!!!

I know it’s sometimes scary or difficult to reach out to someone and apologize, even anonymously, but not only will you feel better, it’s also a marker of you improving as a person. It takes a lot of courage, reflection, and personal growth to not only admit you acted cruelly, but to actively try and better yourself. And this is amazing!!!

This message is genuinely so thoughtful and has positively impacted my day. I even briefly got a laugh out of it because I genuinely did not remember this and was like “haha, is this from the Shadow is not 15 discourse or the whore-joke fiasco!?” because yes those are both real lol.

Anyways, all jokes aside I DO appreciate you reaching out and feel free to PM off-anon if you wanna chat about it because you sound wonderful, anon! I’m so proud of you for this (not in a condescending way, like fr) and I wish that more people online has this level of empathy and self reflection.

At the end of the day, we are on the QUEER AUTISTIC FURRY WEBSITE, IN THE SILLY GAY ANIMAL FANDOM. WE SHOULD ALL HOLD HANDS AND MAKE JOKES TOGETHER, PEACE AND LOVE ON PLANET EARTH <3

#bsc anons #bsc <3 #<- new tag hehe #i liked this so much i had to make a new category of post LOL