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verloonati · 15 days
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Talking about Dr who lore is always fun because of the lack of canon but a fun one to think about is the time war. When did it start and when did it end? Because it's a war acrosse time. It's own chronology isn't linear. And it's been conveniently "time-locked" but both factions survived it.
It's easy to think of the freezing of gallifrey as the end point (gallifrey is saved, most of the daleks are wiped out, some survive). But then you'd have to consider the later incidents that opposed the doctor and the daleks / the doctor to the time Lord.
A notion that is brought up from time to time is the idea that there is a "pre-war" universe. With the tenth doctor navigating trough the timelock in dalek universe etc. but it doesn't really work. Because then again the "gallifrey taking place of earth" incident is a major point of the end of the war. The bad wolf incident can be interpreted as a finishing act of the war. (A time Lord weapon (human imbued with raw vortex energy) destroyed every single dalek on the timeline. Arguably more effective a strategy than the "destroy the fleet around gallifrey ofc maybe there's others somewhere around idk man". Hell what is the siege of trenzalore if not a significant part of the war?
Hell bent is for sure post war from the time lord's perspective, doomsday is the dalek's immediate aftermath.
And what about the beginning of the war? Is genesis of the dalek part of the war? Is the trial of the sixth doctor manipulated by the war council? Is the trial of the master at the beginning of the tv movie a part of the war?
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presidentromana · 11 months
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Meta: Time Lord Names, Looms, and Classism
Sequel to this post and relevant to 
Looming headcanons inspired by @charamei’s Looms and caste system metas 
I like the fanon idea of name length being in some way related to class, that there are some kind of rules when it comes to naming loomlings. Maybe the High Houses get extra syllables. Maybe they get extra special syllables that can be passed on like a noble title, for example Dvora in Romana’s name could be related to how she called herself heir to Dvora and custodian of Everstone 
Some evidence to fit this connection between class and length: Romanadvoratrelundar is nine syllables, Narvinectralonum is six, Elboncaveldron (five), Andredaselus/Andredocelus (four or five?), Hallanoberen (five), Darkelatraquisterastred (eight), Teranwynterestimount/Tungwynteristimount (six/seven) 
So we’ve got two members of the Chancellery with four-five, which fits with the vibe of the Chancellery being a working class-ish job at the foot-soldier level. Romana and Darkel are characters we know are considered upper-class by virtue of their birth, not just their jobs- I believe there’s some reference to House Jurisprudence being Great/High. Wynter’s in-between which fits with him being Chancellery but in a high up position within it. We don’t even know what Narvin’s House is called and its complete lack of mention/relevance I feel points more towards Narvin being a rare example of social mobility than him being from the same kind of background as Romana, and six syllables would fit with that. 
Sartiacaradinora is eight which I can argue fits with my very specific headcanon of "Sartia's House is ancient and ought to be respectable but alas, the Great Vampire Groupies" 
(It’s more random in the novels, there are a lot of longer names there like Ruathadvorophrenaltid or Pralamandavarvar, and they’re more likely to reuse chunks of previous canon names like Cavisadoratrelundar) 
Anyway, to circle back to the question of how inheritance might work in Houses that can have as many as fifty cousins 
With so many cousins and a lack of nuclear family structure, inheritance can’t work the same as it does on Earth, but we could make sense of references to titles and heirs through biodata donors. 
When a Gallifreyan dies, their House now has an open spot to make a new loomling. It’s probably highly highly illegal to loom one without that spot because in a society where you can make kids by machine and those kids are nigh immortal, you really do need a method of population control, and with Gallifrey’s authoritarianism they’d come down really hard on anything that threatens that. 
Gallifreyans, either from your House or from other Houses, apply to loom a child using that spot. At least one person in the application is probably from a different House for genetic diversity. Two people applications are the most common simply because it’s easiest to make an alliance of two, but it’s not unusual to have applications from three or four people who intend to create a child together. I��m sure sometimes their reasons are for the purposes or romance or genuinely wanting to raise a child as its own objective, but amongst the Time Lords at least, it’s more commonly about: 
-inter-House alliances
-social climbing, looming a child in a House more respectable than your own 
-social standing, having a child who successfully graduates and attains a good position in society reflects well on you  
The more respectable the House, the more applications they’ll get and the more choosy they get to be, which also becomes a powerful way to enforce social norms. A Time Lord who marries a non Time Lord Gallifreyan wants to have a child? Maybe they’re rejected by all the Time Lord Houses and they have to go with a House with the same level of social power as the least privileged of the couple, massively affecting the privilege that their child is born into. Or if you’re a Gallifreyan who marries a human and want to loom a child? Good luck. So if you take the novel canon of Leela wanting a child (but ignore the weird infertility cure), no wonder Andred and Leela never do loom one. 
Anyway, if you do successfully get a slot, the loom can combine biodata from living people but then probably also takes from the APC net, the pool of dead Time Lords, because of the whole Pandora/the Other situations. Does it take their biodata? Or something more to do with their mental patterns, their psyche?
And that’s how Time Lords can have cousins but also parents outside the House system, who might pass down inherited titles and the like, maybe Romana’s biodata donors have connections to Dvora & Everstone, leading to the Dvora in her name and the extra titles she mentions. 
And here’s some more thoughts on the topic and how it can play into classist power structures horribly well, in the form of a conversation between me and @magicofthepen 
me: 
I think there could be something to the idea that you can have less syllables the more kids you're the primary biodonor for, to discourage people from overcontributing their biodata- this could be why Romana seems to have an extra syllable even compared to other High Housers- at some point, one of her ancestors got allotted an extra syllable for being Rassilon's special little boy or something, and gets to pass that down to the first loomling they donate biodata to
and then that penalises people who are not High House and start out with a five syllable name to begin with, if they want to primarily contribute to three children the third would only have three syllables, the horror! whereas if someone like Romana was the primary contributor to 3 children, the third would still have a respectable 7 syllables
magicofthepen: 
huh the idea that only the first child someone is a primary biodonor for can have more syllables is interesting…..even if it was meant to discourage one person from looming too many kids, it would in effect create more status for eldest siblings (well, not necessarily siblings in the way we think of it, but you know) — so potentially youngest “siblings” could have less status in their name than an eldest sibling in a lower class House.
if the first-loomed children of biodonors inherit the most status, is there implicit pressure for *those* children in particular to apply to loom children when they’re old enough and space is available? or would that only be the case when looming is kept more in House, or within a few Houses, so the Reputation of the entire line is more of a thing? if someone has already been a primary donor before, does that mean their might have to apply to a lower House the next time, because their second or third or fourth child wouldn’t have the status becoming of a High Houser? (I would assume that would be the case, although obviously when the tipping point would be would vary bc like you said, someone like Romana could be a biodonor for a few children and those kids would still be high status bc she’s got more syllables than most)
and then wait you’re likely to end up with the younger children of more upper class Gallifreyans in lower Houses, pushing out the children of the people who *were* in that House bc their youngest kids won’t be high status enough for the House anymore. it’s like gentrification, but with having kids. the biodata of the upper classes keeps encroaching on the lower classes, and once you hit bottom — oops you’re too low status to have kids. more “we can’t let Certain People have too many kids” eugenics vibes.
which is also connected to the basic premise of “if you’re upper class, you’re allowed to have more kids — technically, as many as you have syllables.” if you’re lower class, tough luck.
me:
Yes! And doing it this way rather than outright banning it also allows for the plausible deniability of subtle inequalities, whereas it would be really blunt and obvious if it was a legally mandated limit tied to your status  
magicofthepen:
“well, *everyone* is penalized for having more kids, *every* next kid along gets one syllable reduced, see it’s fair” 
me:
And i think the amount of pressure would be specific to the person and the lineage, but there's probably implicit pressure for people of eight or nine syllable names to contribute their biodata at least once, and someone w nine syllables, assuming they graduated the Academy with reasonable grades and have a reasonably respectable job, would have their pick of looming spots. There’d be a lot of pressure on someone like Romana to do well and live up to expectations, it'd be such a waste if a nine syllable student flaked out of the Academy
which is funny because it's completely a social construct, Romana having nine syllables doesn't make her any more likely to be successful! but social constructs are powerful. omg what if the reason Pandora decided that it was the perfect time to go ahead with her plan because she liked the idea of her heir having the super long name 😄
and yes, that's exactly where that policy would end up! And it's a way to give kids more value in a world where you can make them by machine unlike here where there is an inherent biological cost to children- the stress to the body, dangers of childbirth, and the time it takes to create a child. 
Under this system, if someone really wants to tick "have a child who passes the academy, becomes a time lord, and gets at least a semi respectable job" off their bucketlist, they'd really rather do it on their first try when they can give the kid the maximum amount of status they're capable of, each attempt after that is going to have diminishing returns until it gets simply too embarrassing to loom another, their name being so short would be proof of their failure
magicofthepen:
like hypothetically if one of Romana’s biodonors was a primary biodonor to three more kids, the last would have the same number of syllables as Narvin. but if the idea is that bc of that no one would do that in practice…..hmm this is growing on me as another means of population control — in this case, making sure the limited spots that open for looming a child aren’t always taken by the same person. (I suppose you *could* just outright ban contributing your biodata to lots of kids, but possibly this way there’s a trickle down effect — maybe the younger kids with less status would be less likely to be approved as biodonors themselves, at least to a House of a similar class status as the one they’re from. (although again, I suppose banning would still serve the same purpose, and in a more clean cut way, but also the social implications here are fascinating)
me: 
Mm it's interesting, cos it's all very sci fi on one hand, on the other, "lower class people are penalised for having more children" is just human society too. There's the stereotype of working class people having more kids than they can support and a strong sentiment of crippling poverty as a just punishment for that, the stereotype of middle class people sticking with a small amount of children they can fully support, and then the uber rich having lots of children and having the resources to give all of them trust funds and nannies 
magicofthepen: 
and oooh yes you’re very right about the *pressure* then on eldest children, they have the best social odds of any of their biodonors’ kids and they had better *use* those odds and make the House and their biodonors proud
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sarahjaneadventures · 2 years
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another jack mcspringheel for @waltbraxiatel !! 🥂
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gallifreyanhotfive · 26 days
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Yesterday I asked a tipsy friend who has never watched the show about the Doctors etc etc
She knows they're all the same person but not much else.
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lightfromandromeda · 6 months
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Keep your hands off that time machine!
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Looming vs. Natural Reproduction - what on Gallifrey's going on here?
As the first of the trending topics, GIL's noticed some confusion about the concept of looming vs. natural reproduction in Gallifreyans. Have no fear; GIL's here to help.
🧬 What is looming?
It's a bit like 3D printing, but for people. These Rassilon-created Genetic Loom Breeding-Engines weave new Gallifreyans from a mix of matter and biodata. Looms produce Gallifreyans of all genders, (though females are loomed slightly less frequently). Each House has its unique Loom, which embeds familial traits into its creations.
❓ Why is looming a thing?
The invention of Looms was Rassilon’s grand solution to a serious problem. Following the catastrophic Curse of Pythia, Gallifrey faced extinction. The Looms became lifelines, ensuring the continuity of Gallifreyan civilisation.
🔮 What is the Curse of Pythia?
The Pythias were a kind of magical matriarchal monarchy, with rulers known as Pythias ruling over ancient Gallifrey in succession. Pythia number 309 (out of 309) was elbowed out by Rassilon. She was, understandably, really hacked off. She condemned Gallifrey to wither and then threw herself into the Crevasse of Memories That Will Be, never to be seen again. This 'withering' is known as the 'Curse of Pythia'. It resulted in mass sterility of Gallifreyans - supposedly instantly killing babies in their mother's wombs, and preventing any Gallifreyan from reproducing naturally from that point forward.
🍷 So Gallifreyans used to reproduce naturally?
Yes. Before the sterility curse, Gallifreyans reproduced just like humans, with a little wine, a candlelit dinner and maybe an album by Barry White.
✨ So does this 'Curse' still exist?
No. The apparent lifting of Pythia's curse was marked by Leela's pregnancy (yes, THAT Leela), which hailed a return to natural reproduction among Gallifreyans. Others besides Leela have also been able to reproduce naturally.
🔄 So what method do they use?
This blend of technological and biological means of reproduction leaves Gallifreyans in a unique position. They could use both methods depending on social, political, or personal factors.
🧐It can't all be that simple, GIL ...
Wow, you've been here before, haven't you?
There are accounts that the supposed 'Curse of Pythia' didn't actually come from Pythia.
Self-inflicted: Some say it was a side-effect of a massive time tech experiment that went awry.
It never existed: Others suggest there never was a curse. Rassilon, seeking absolute control, concocted a narrative to enforce a sterile, controllable society, eradicating the unpredictability of natural birth and driving forward eugenics in his perfect society.
🏫 So ...
Thus, the plot thickens. Were Gallifreyans always capable of natural reproduction but held back by societal constructs and fear? Did Leela's pregnancy unveil a truth long buried or simply reawaken a dormant biological ability? That's up to you.
But of course, GIL denies this version of events, cos how else would we get the funding for all the biscuits in the canteen from the High Council? Praise Rassilon!
-------------------------------------------------------
》📫Got a question / submission? 》🔥 Trending |🫀Biology |🗨️Language |🕰️Throwbacks |🤓Facts | 😆Jokes 》📚Complete list of Q+A 》📜Masterpost If you like what GIL does, please consider buying a coffee or tipping below to help make future projects, including complete biology and language guides.
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90's who was wild and weird.
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being-of-rain · 2 months
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Listening to a Dr Who podcast (not one anyone here has recommended to me, in fact I think I heard about it through a tumblr post,) and it's reminding me why I almost never listen to Dr Who podcasts or watch Dr Who youtube videos. It's because I just can't stand hearing so much objectively wrong information. Maybe it's due to Doctor Who being such a large and long-lived franchise, I know that I can misremember and get things muddled. But surely if you're publishing something you'd want to double check that you're not confidently emphasising incorrect facts about even basic things... and yet I feel like I see it with surprising frequency. It drives me crazy, please get a fact checker.
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the expanded media whovians keep trying to get me to start listening to big finish and I'm so sorry guys you're amazing and all but to me it always reads like
!! WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO CONTACT YOU ABOUT YOUR CAR'S EXTENDED WARRANTY !!
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thank you guys I appreciate your effort but I'll fall down that hole when I get to it, I'm currently busy obsessing over some other stuff at the moment
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thediaryofriversong · 4 months
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OH MY GOD THE DOCTOR NEVER SAYS I LOVE YOU BECAUSE OF CHARLEY
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verloonati · 26 days
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I'm bored let's play the thing with six connections with Dr who characters gimme one character and one historical event and I got to connect this character with it in six people they've met/interacted with. I'm not allowed to use the doctor as a connection
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presidentromana · 11 months
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Meta: does Gallifrey have a child protection system?
I fleshed out these thoughts on how Gallifrey deals with child abuse and neglect (or rather, fails to deal) while writing this worldbuilding heavy fic which I mention because this starts off general but gets specific to the not-actually-canon scenario I was thinking about at the end 
Legally and culturally, child neglect and abuse is meant to be taken care of within the House. The most common instance of neglect is probably the scenario of: more senior members of the House stick someone on loomling duty who doesn't want to be, perhaps they're younger and irresponsible, and they neglect the loomling. If punishments don't stop the substandard care, the House is meant to give up and give care responsibility to someone else. 
If a loomling died or regenerated by accident due to neglect, the person who was meant to be caring for them would get in trouble- likely criminal prosecution- and the people in charge who didn't intervene soon enough would likely get some social backlash, but not legal consequences. I think actual death due to neglect would be vanishingly rare though, between regeneration, having servitors/androids around that could deal with emergencies or alert to them, and the level of medical science available, it'd take a lot of bad luck. 
If a member of the House is doing deliberate harm and their cousins don't deal with it effectively and the complaint gets to the authorities, there would be a Chancellery investigation and some level of official consequences for everyone. However, I think the child would be left with the House as long as there's a single cousin who is considered capable and safe to act as caregiver. (The House would be legally obligated to take care of its loomlings and students-when-not-at-the-academy so someone will have to do it and if no one's volunteering, someone with less social power and a job considered less important could be forced to do it) 
If literally all the cousins are unsafe or it's a "the House is being allowed to die out because of past catastrophe and they're all out of adult capable cousins" and the child is old enough to be at the Academy, they'd become a permanent ward of the Academy and stay there during term breaks. Legally and socially, they'd still be connected to the House name once they've graduated. But if the child is still a loomling, then there's a problem. They'll have to be cared for by someone but since Academy initiation starts at such a young age, it won't be for very long and the situation could then convert to the former scenario. Legally anyway, hopefully in that situation whoever cared for them would maintain some kind of emotional and social connection, but they wouldn't be obligated to.  
(I assume that anyone who doesn't get into the Academy still goes to a boarding school situation, I’m imagining a stratified schooling system like the old UK tripartite system but with boarding schools, students at the other kinds of educational places are being prepared for jobs considered menial, perfect for reinforcing classist hierarchies. Maybe the Academy is the top layer and there's a middle layer for those from Time Lord Houses who didn't make the entrance exams or later drop/get expelled out + the presumed to exist middle caste/castes, and a bottom layer for shobogans/the lowest class of society) 
Why no adoption or foster system? 
First of all we're working with smaller numbers than Earth's population. Gallifrey has a smaller but extremely long-lived population and the underage to adult ratio is going to be lower than in humans because of the absurdly long lifespans part and the House/loom system acting as population control. Statistically, the amount of cases that reach the "every single cousin is terrible" level are going to be extremely rare. 
Plus the default is part communal, part institutional raising of children, everyone gets sent to boarding school and then in the holidays they're with older cousins. If any of their cousins contributed a larger amount of their biodata or if they're the result of two or more people who wanted to make a child together and identify as parents, they're still going to have a lot less actual contact with their parents than in a nuclear family based society. Everyone has boarding school syndrome! 
The UK private school system feels very reminiscent of the vibe of the Academy/Gallifrey and it has always had huge problems with bullying and institutionalised abuse, both emotional and physical, and just all round being socially toxic environments that produce the worst kinds of politicians. 
Gallifrey’s Academy sounds like that but more intensely ingrained in their culture. There’s the sense that it's very hard to graduate the Academy, some fail the entrance exam, some burn out/fail out through the years, some die (well, probably only a concern if you’re in the Doctor’s year) 
It's talked about as a negative, gruelling experience, but once you graduate, you're a Time Lord. it’s a century-long hazing to become part of the in-group for the rest of your near-immortal life. There's no interest in making things more mentally healthy or easier or less emotionally abusive for the students because that's what everyone had to go through, the average Time Lord with the power to change any of it thinks it would be unfair for the new generation to have an easier time of it. That would be admitting that their experience wasn't okay and unpacking that trauma. Everyone hates the academy, Romana *side-eyes Brax* 
So, abuse at the Academy is probably a far more common problem with all varieties, that's where Gallifreyan children are spending most of their time after all. If you're a terrible person seeking control over younger people, you'd become a Tutor, not start a family (unless you can get control of your entire House and start a cult). There just isn't the same level of total control and vulnerability that exists in nuclear human families, and there’s no political will to do anything about the Academy problem. 
My next point is that your House is meant to be a permanent, unchangeable thing, you can’t legally change it. The social structures at play are authoritarian and fixed, with a general collectivist attitude, why make a fundamental change to the ideology of Houses for a few vanishingly rare individual cases? 
There's a case or two in the EU of Houses dying out, usually something like a terrible thing happens in a House and the Loom is destroyed so that no more members will be made, but the surviving members are still part of that doomed to die out House, they don’t get to change it. 
For a lot of Time Lords, I imagine a big part of the appeal of using their biodata for a child or helping out a young cousin is that their success reflects well on their own House or lineage and helps maintain or improve social status. If a displaced child can never fully be considered part of their House, they won't get that benefit. And Gallifreyans who buy into eugenics based ideologies wouldn't want the biodata from a "criminal" House to be allowed in anyway, and people like that would probably view a traumatised child as damaged goods, less likely to be successful. 
There are definitely going to be some people who want to loom and/or raise children for more emotional, nurturing reasons, maybe as part of a platonic or romantic relationship with another person, who might consider fostering or adoption, but such people are less likely to have the social/political power to drive policy changes. 
(Though this could be a Chapter-devolved matter, maybe in a Chapter like Cerule informal fostering arrangements exist, as long as people are fostering within Chapter and caste lines.)
Sartia's position is rare- her whole House was, yknow, one of those cults trying to bring back evils from the Dark Times, so all her cousins were complicit in the neglect/abuse, and then they were mostly in prison. 
There was no system set up for cases like that, no kind of "you should speak to another adult if bad things are happening to you at home" kind of PSAs, and no assurance that she wouldn't be blamed for things like keeping illegal secrets. I feel like that danger can’t be overstated considering two kids in her class ended up erased from time for the grievous crime of... reading secret CIA documents about their parents? 
so even if she had successfully told on Kinnora and gotten away with not being implicated in the crime, the best case is still being stuck at the Academy until graduation with no emotional or social support. She'd probably need explicit permission to leave for any reason, through some byzantine layers of bureaucracy, because of their legal responsibility for her.
and people would be sympathetic, think oh what an awful situation, but still not do anything more because that's the law, their hands are tied, and move on with their job
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dweuquotes · 8 months
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“I thought the Master was your friend.”
The words seemed to faze him, just for a second.
“He was... he is.”
Alison snorted with laughter. “For somebody who's so clever you can't half be stupid sometimes, Doctor.”
The Feast of the Stone
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gallifreyanhotfive · 4 months
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Random Doctor Who Facts You Might Not Know
The Doctor has been known to keep a teddy bear in his pocket.
The Master's first TARDIS (Lolita) is the Doctor's TARDIS's twin.
The Eighth Doctor once had sex with a sentient planet.
Machiavelli, Richelieu, and Robespierre were all just different aliases for the immortal Hades.
The iceberg that the Titanic crashed into was actually the Monk's TARDIS.
Also on board at the time were several incarnations of the Doctor, the Decayed Master, Jack Harkness, John Hart, Ace McShane, and Bernice Summerfield.
The First, Fourth, and Fifth Doctors were all in London around when the Great Fire started in 1666.
The Eighth Doctor was briefly engaged to Queen Edith but ran away before the wedding.
Consecrated planets, moons, and asteroids cannot be mined under Galactic Law.
The Doctor used to make up imaginary enemies to play fight when they were a small, lonely child. One of these enemies was called Mandrake.
The Sixth Doctor once went back in time with Peri to kill a baby who would become an evil dictator but could not go through with it.
After Nyssa tried to fix the chameleon circuit, the TARDIS took the shape of a whale.
Tegan Jovanka is the Earth Ambassador to Gallifrey.
The First Doctor participated in a riot and became wanted by the CIA two days before running away from Gallifrey (although some sources dispute this).
While the Ninth Doctor witnessed Kennedy's assassination, the First Doctor witnessed McKinley's.
The First Doctor has been repeatedly eaten and regurgitated by a whale before.
Marilyn Monroe married both the Eleventh Doctor and King Henry VIII, who fathered Elizabeth I, who married the Tenth Doctor, and he had also been married to Amy Pond, who was also the Doctor’s mother-in-law through River Song. Talk about a confusing family tree!
The First Doctor fed a snapping wart fowl to Valyes's summer project, and Valyes has had a grudge ever since.
The Eighth Doctor once demanded to die naked upon being sentenced to execution.
All righty, folks. I'm very tired! Good night. I may add more later.
Part 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49
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lightfromandromeda · 7 months
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have you read the Eighth Doctor Adventures books. will you read the Eighth Doctor Adventures books. when will you read the Eighth Doctor Adventures books
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