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mysteriouslybluepirate · 6 months

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Can't send asks from my sideblog, but this is @chewing-the-drywall

I feel like much of s2 fell into Frenchie's "we put it in the box and then lock it and don't open it again" in the sense that it set up A LOT that I was intrigued about how they would address it, but it either never was mentioned again or was handled poorly.

Examples range from light, like how I wish we saw more of the crew interacting with each other in ways that built on their characters from S1, where in S2 they didn't feel any more developed, or even regressed. (Example, Fang used the word Fingies 2-3 times through S2, and it felt like they were using it almost as a shorthand for his character, rather than making him feel more real and multidimensional as a character.)

100% @chewing-the-drywall. When I first heard that line I had I was so excited for the story to prove Frenchie wrong. Or show how important it can be to put aside problems to stay alive in the moment. But in the end, this one line summarized how the season handled everyone, besides Stede and Ed. Below, is an in depth discussion on where this season decided to spend it's limited amount of time. Instead of focusing on the characters and plotlines they'd already established.

This season had so MANY ideas it wanted to touch on.

Izzy trying to deal with his unrequited love and opening up to a new way of living. The traumatized 'Revenge' crew trying to adapt to a softer way of life again. The abandoned crew learning how to help their traumatized friends. Introducing new characters like Zheng, Auntie, and Archie into our main group. Setting up a conflict to resolve in season three. Along the way, referencing Pirates of history like Ned Low, Mary Reed, and Anne Bonny.

Notice, I've said all this and we're not even at our romantic leads.

Which is fine. Stories are fluid things. As long as the story knows how to flow from our leads to our side characters. Which leads us to how I feel this show took a lot of time away from establishing our central crew-

[Warning- this will be a controversial opinion- I want to know what y'all think about this] Zheng/Oluwande. This seasons habit of retreading old plotlines and referencing scenes from S1.

What S1 did so well was paralleling the side stories with what was going on with Ed/Stede. Usually, highlighting how well Stede/Ed worked by showing how much Ed/Izzy DIDN'T work. Or general hijinks that tied into the plot (Oluwande and Frenchie on the French ship).

Season 2 chose to parallel our main story with what was going on between Zheng/Oluwande as a budding romance and Izzy's slow recovery. The reason Zheng/Oluwande scenes felt like a waste for me in that the story was JUST a retelling the story we watched from S1.

A frustrated first mate(Auntie), and a legendary captain(Zheng) fighting over the captain falling in love with an idiot(Olu). In season 2, much like every callback for me, it felt like it slowed down the plot by pulling us out of the story. Like...yeah, you did the thing again, do you want me to applaud you for it?

I LIKE Zheng and Oluwande as a couple! I like that Oluwande was debating leaving Stede and taking Jim and Archie with him. But at the same time, I didn't care about Zheng until episode 7 when she beat up Stede, showing that yes. She's not just some all powerful woman taken down by a mix of love(the crew in ep3) and thinking that she was above it all (ep 7). She's fast on her feet, smart, and willing to stab someone who gets in her way. She's her own person. But.

Every other scene that established her was about her romance, felt like we could have put Rhys and Taika in there. It didn't feel...unique. It's as if the show only knows 1 way to write a romance between a badass and a bumbling idiot. Again. Oluwande in season 1 wasn't dumb in the same way everyone else was. He was protective of Jim, a bit nervous overall, but he was the person the crew chose to lead them. The season just dumbed everyone down a bit and called it a day.

This comes to the larger issue. When we only have eight episodes I don't want to rewatch the exact same plot beats with different characters. Time spent here ends up taking away from other stories we could have told about trauma and growing as a family and other forms of growing as a family. We didn't need another romance plot line. Imagine taking this time instead to show Lucius reaching out to Pete AND the crew for help. Or Frenchie finally feeling safe enough to play his lute. Or Roach helping Fang get over his thing with cakes-you get my point.

The fact we took all the found family stuff from season one, and pushed it onto only Izzy in S2 means when he dies, all the found family shit falls away. His death makes us realize we've been ignoring the central family we were supposed to care about. Because in so many words, their trauma was ignored.

[I even theorize if Izzy was alive and sailed away with them. Showing how he was taken in and loved by his crew, the ending wouldn't feel so hollow. This crew doesn't feel like a caring family. The person who protected them for months died, wasn't mourned, and then they threw a wedding the same day. Not even a full day to mourn. The 'New Revenge' feels like a heartless crew of characters we barely recognize because they aren't a family like they were at the end of S1. More like coworkers who sometimes fall in love with eachother.]

Trauma, Timelines, and Tonal issues when jumping from Episodes 1-3 to Episodes 4-5.

When the crews meet up, the story chooses to focus on the fun plot. Ed and Stede recovering their relationship, only dipping back into that serious tone when Izzy or Lucius come on screen to 'make things sad' again. I don't think the transition from 'serious' to 'comedy' was handled well.

I don't have an official timeline of the events of season two. But from what I remember, everything happens within 2 weeks.

In episode 4, Stede ignored the vote of his crew- to let the man who was torturing half his 'FAMILY' for at least 80 days- back aboard. This rubbed me the wrong way, as it showed Stede being a selfish prick in a way that could seriously harm his crew. That's when I started to see how not adding a *single* time-skip mid-season would hurt S2.

Imagine if we had a one-week off-screen time skip between episodes 4 and 5.

Maybe it's implied that they stay in that town for a bit. Izzy would a bit more time to learn to move on his new leg and start to open up to those he already trusts. Include a scene of Izzy WITH the crew, maybe laughing about something with the old traumatized crew, even if it's just a 30-second opener. Imply that the traumatized crew would have more time to settle in with the family they miss. Show that yeah, the traumatized crew needs more time to heal. Imply at the start of the 'Ed apology' that Ed and Stede have had more time to talk their issues out.

THEN have Ed apologize. You can even keep the bullshit corporate to show that Ed still has to work for this.

Healing takes time. Setting a series over the span of two weeks after half your cast was tortured by your lead love interest? After five of your main crew thought they would sail off into a storm and die after months of stress and life threatening battles? Why did that shit get shoved to the side so quickly?

Framing episode 5 as the START of Ed making amends with the crew, only to drop the plot by episode 7? Not a smart move. Because let's be honest, 'poison into positivity' in episode 6, referring to the fact that they sold all of Ed's loot to pay for the party, ignores the sacrifices the crew made to live that long. (The death of Ivan, and intense trauma they all need to work through). In a way, Ed throwing this party was him asking the crew to start putting everything away in that imaginary box.

It's Ed retroactively letting himself say 'hey, that time I spent torturing my captives was worth it because we got something good out of it' while still ignoring his own guilt. Ed needed to take accountability for his actions. No more 'I took 'a' mans leg' bullshit. The reason his arc feels so unsatisfying is that the plot easily forgives him. Fuck. I hate what they did for Ed's arc, but that's not the point.

Overall.

My issue with this season is not that it chose to do these topics, it's that it didn't think about the implications of what they were bringing up. It didn't dare to think 'maybe it's fucked if we quickly brush off a trauma like this'. Again. I know we have to blame MAX for cutting off two episodes. But I don't think 2 additional episodes would fix a tone problem seen going from episodes 3-4.

Fucking hell. Each member of the revenge had the potential for their own arc, so it's baffling to see them all reduced to 'well meaning idiot' when they all felt so fleshed out in S1.

When izzy gives his speech about belonging, there's a reason the only image in the show of the crew all together was from S1.

At the end of the day, Season 2 didn't let our surviving side characters grow. This is a mean spirited bit on how I feel the writers see the their own characters.

Stede and Ed are our leads. They won't die, not in this genera. Their shitty actions will be forgiven because it's a comedy, and as long as it's joked about, it holds no weight. They won't die. They won't get fatally hurt. Their trauma will be taken seriously, but it's a 50/50 on if they'll talk about it before breaking up again. They will eventually get a happy ending, their trauma looked at head on, because duh.

Jim, Olu, Lucius, Pete? Characters who used to have defined personalities in S1, but haven't been defined much beyond their relationships with their partners? Whose trauma might be mentioned, but will quickly be 'resolved' in one scene? Shame. Seems like they're only useful as set dressing, But we might make you useful as interchangeable side characters to riff against. Oh, and you're in love! Isn't that cool!

Izzy? I'll just quote Jenkins here. "To have him become a father figure to Blackbeard, and on some level to the rest of the crew, and to see him become the heart of why we’re giving pirates the chance to stand for being able to live how you choose. In reality, they’re thieves and criminals, but what our pirates stand for is a life of belonging to something larger than they are in the face of a crushing, slightly fascist normalcy." So...Is Izzy a pirate and accepted into the Revenge family? Or is he still an outsider? Jenkins gave us a romcom but still defines Izzy's character as that of one stuck in a drama/tragedy. Point and laugh, because tonally these two things clash HARD and will make an audience lose trust in it's writers unless well established. Leading us to the entire issue we've pointed out of not letting your characters actions hold in dramatic weight in your story.

Frenchie, Wee John, Roach, and Fang- Ah. No love interests again...shit. Well. Background actors it is... for now. We'll see. But we need 2 more scenes of the couple breaking up, so MAYBE you'll get some backstory hinted at in dialogue. You all have 1 thing your good at, so that's easy enough to put you where you belong.

Buttons and Swede? Well. They're still alive!! Don't be sad, fans :) The actors just couldn't show up anymore. We don't want our silly happy queer pirate rom com to not end on a happy ending! (Closes the lid of the trash can where they're keep Con O'Neill a bit tighter, thanking God Con was silenced by a strike this entire season from social media)

Do you agree, or disagree? Leave any lingering thoughts down below!

I'd love to chat down below.

#I am absolutely screwing myself over spelling-wise by adding a poll but fuck it. That's what we do #Overall: Just because you can fit something into your story doesn't mean it needs to be shown on screen.#I wanted to add a section of all the scenes I'd cut/tighten to make my added scenes work but I don't think we're there yet as a fandom #I theorize that the reason they couldn't change the script and had to hack it up was due to them already having 10 episodes fully written #also I SWEAR I LIKE ZHENG- but the part of me that sees her as a hollow Ed 'narrative mirror' finds her a bit boring until episode 7 #I LOVED her ship and how she hated Stede. But that's just because I generally don't enjoy Stede when he's unquestioned #Stede on her ship was a pacified lamb slowly getting fattened for the slaughter. She would have turned on him SO EASILY. She almost did too #I semi-tolerated Ed/Stede's love story of not communicating and puppy love. Seeing it again but sped up didn't make me like it more #ofmd s2 #ofmd season 2 #ofmd s2 spoilers #ofmd critical #?#yeah I'll tag that just to be safe #izzy hands #edward teach #ofmd s2 finale #ofmd season 2 spoilers #ofmd s2 meta #ofmd s2 analysis #trauma

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sparring-spirals · 1 year

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uhoh empire sib meta time.

Courtesy of that last rb by @iinfernal thinking very hard (very affectionately) about love in the form of, we are going to work to keep each other on track. Especially with Caleb and Beau. Because like. its not just about newfound acceptance, people who will give you the benefit of the doubt and help you improve, people who see your worst and love you anyway, people who will forgive you.

Like its about that! But its also about- i trust you to drag me back if i stray. i trust you to call me out, to push back. i am putting my back to you- you will protect it, and you will also pull me back if i wander.

The first big backstory reveal between Beau and Caleb was an exchange, not a kindness. it was, tell me why you are afraid of fire, and ill get you into the library. Caleb laid out some of the corners of his guilty conscience, to Nott, with all of her faith in him, (he is my boy), to Beau, with her skepticism and brusque curiosity, and it was not meant as a soft gesture. It was not a call for forgiveness, or absolution- it was an item for barter, a warning, an admission of guilt.

and Beau- still unsure, still rough around the edges and rude and defensive and angry, shell-shocked and out of her depth did not provide forgiveness, or kindness. She said something along the lines of- good god, you know thats fucked up, right? i didnt ask for this, what the fuck.

She said something like: you know what you need to do now, then, right? prevent this guy from hurting more people. This is what you've gotta do now, I think- this is what we'll do-

And Caleb gets into the library, and casts haste on Beau in a bar fight, and there is something to be said about love shaped like a willingness to disagree, to push back, to say things wrong but try to say it anyway.

Caleb, and Beau, arguing. Beau is suspicious and Caleb is ready to run, and "the problem with friends is you have to care about them". Running into old injuries and boundaries, working to learn them, to fight to communicate. Apologies that are awkward but sincere. Kindness that is misshappen but intentional.

Caleb and Beau, butting heads, poking fun, trusting the other person to be suspicious of them, when it really counts.

"Can we keep each other straight?"

Some fifty episodes apart: have faith in us, just a little bit? dont run.

follow your own advice. don't go.

Caleb, vision and hearing gone and flung out ahead, placing a hand on Beau's shoulder. Lead me well, lead me straight, bring me back if I stray. Caleb and Beau, going in circles about what to do as the world ends, ambition and magic and time and guilt, and entities at war. Worried about evil, about going wrong, needing the clear vision of someone who loves you and will not eternally forgive you.

"I'm worried I am exactly what he said I was."

"Not yet."

God just. Love as keeping each other on track. Beau and Caleb, as the only ones to get the eyes, afflicted by searching too hard for knowledge. what a horror, to have you and your tether tossed into an unknown spiral. what a comfort- if it was any of them, at least it was both. The Mighty Nein, making contingency plans, Yasha sticking close to caleb and cooing over his animal forms and ready, ready, for the worst. What a nightmare. Thank god. "Im glad it was us."

"You drove me insane."

"I hated you. You sucked."

What love. What immense care. Years on in, and it all still comes back to:

"You got my back?"

"What's the play, Beauregard?"

#this post was supposed to be 2 paras max but this is one of those subjects that has SO MANY EXAMPLES it could go on forever #critical role #caleb widogast #beauregard #empire siblings #theres a whole cut section about how other members of the m9 did this for each other too but for specificity i kept it to just these two #also i swear the line about them being glad about the eyeballing is like. an in character line but i cant find it. I PROMISE THO #anyway empire sibs famous forever. i know i wrote multiple posts like this for the brjeaus so it seems fair i write one for them #character meta #my meta #narrative meta #its about the hand on the shoulder to lead each other its about love as trusting them to lead you right trusting them to tell you when #youre wrong. its about love as intentionally learning each others languages even when its hard. its about love as fucking up and trying #anyway. its about. two little shits like us doing good? its so. ITS SO.#this is so long bc its actually like three themes in one. sorry.#grrr ok episode tagging time #c2e122 #c2e18 #i think #c3e51 #SORRY I PUT IN A READMORE I DIDNT REALIZE HOW LONG IT GOT #let the record show! this theme is applicable to many rels within the m9 and more broadly among all of them but #this particular post is about beau and caleb #that said oOoOOOo the og post about the whole m9.... love it

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skrunksthatwunk · 14 days

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why the fuck did i write about birds this fucking sucks. i just found out birds only sleep for a few minutes at a time, hundreds of times a day. do you know what this is going to do to my structure? the logistics of their road trip? this is already like three days late and i've been fighting for my life to get A Plot Like Any Plot That Makes Sense out and now the birds fucking sleep for 5 minutes at a time.

#i should've just bailed and written another story when i had the chance #i'm not joking i've never fought a fiction piece this hard before. usually because i'm not writing for specific deadlines #and not a piece so big. and not one that's gonna be workshopped. i wanna blow them away but if things keep going the way they are everyone'#gonna tell me the pacing sucks and it feels pointless and the characters feel really confused. I KNOW. I KNOW THAT. FUCKK #i'm the type to do about 15 passes before i let someone see my 'first draft' and i'm just not gonna be able to do that if i want to get it #in time for a workshop. every day i delay is making things harder for my classmates y'know?? but i've been writing like 1k words a day #and it's still not done. GUHH #I DON'T LIKE WRITING THESE CHARACTERS THAT MUCH THEY'RE NOT FUNNY OR ENDEARING AND THAT'S MY LIKE.#MAIN SKILL AND VIBE WITH SHORT STORY DUOS. BUT NOOOO I HAD TO MAKE THEM DIFFERENT CUZ I WAS SICK OF DOING #THE SAME DYNAMIC OVER AND OVER. BITCH THIS IS YOUR FINAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! TRIED AND TRUE GETS THE BLUE (RIBBON)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!#head in my hands head in my hands head in my hands head in my hands head #going to work on it some more. fuckk #the voices aren't consistent and i'm trying to make it clear that this is toxic bird yuri and not a mother/daughter thing but the maternal #themes are kind of fucking with that but they're important and i don't wanna get rid of them but it feels forced cuz im forcing it #sigh. i'm gonna have to cut the yuri. these two don't work romantically at all. what a waste of time.#i watched the entirety of mnthly girls' nozaki-kun in the past two days while avoiding writing. did you know that? the lengths to which i'l #go? anyway it was fun i appreciate fellow creative agony and i uh never knew how they did screen tones and wasn't expecting that somehow #so i learned something new (hooray). anyway back to. fucking. bird story stuff #i'm so mad i hate these two (<- lying. just pissy) i hate this story (<- mostly exaggerating. throwing a tantrum)#eughhhhhh i just wanna lie on the floor and cryyyyyyyyyy (<- completely deadpan irl. not That upset just kind of sick of shit)#i'm so burnt out and it's only gonna get worse. ughh #why can't someone just come in and write it for meeeeeeeeeeheheuhhh (<- would hate that)

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alyona11 · 6 months

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I truly think some people in the internet need to log out and talk to an actual real human person irl. If every message you send regardless of context looks like a Twitter callout/discourse starter post it's NOT normal and I can't empathize it enough. You shouldn't talk to people this way??? It's incredibly rude and uncalled for.

I think Twitter in particular has permanently damaged people's brains because I started noticing more and more people acting like they are in a ratioed hit tweet outside Twitter. I even started to see that when I spend too much time scrolling through Twitter, I myself start to formulate my messages in a more provocative manner like I have the intention to hurt someone's feelings to get a reaction. And surprise-surprise! It's not cool, guys! Not just in relation to other people but it's toxic to yourself, first a foremost.

Do yourself a favor: do outside, take a walk, talk to actual people, hang out with friends. Delete Twitter at least temporarily to detox. Literally touch grass.

#me being me #just have a lot of thoughts lately #and i started seeing it often #and also felt it on myself #but also i had a convo with my bestie whom i haven't seen for a year since we live in different countries #And she doesn't sit in social webs much so she is kinda not too updated on current internet trends of misinterpretating #and exaggerating each sentence for clout #and I was telling her how one pretty harmless thing she did could be misinterpreted by her thinking too high of herself by other peeps #and she told me 'tbh I don't think so because it was harmless and because for me it's weird to treat each word said to you as a potential #threat and wish to hurt you and get under your skin. I don't expect my friends and people with whom I'm in a good relationship to twist my #every move in search of the way I could have meant to offend them'#and...you know it made me think how places like twitter make you overanalyse your every move so someone wouldn't think you meant to offend #same way as from the other hand we fall into being far too aggressive and too judgemental towards every words that a person posts online #ready to cut throats if we think we found their evil intent to hurt us #and you know... it seems very not healthy?#anyway just needed to say it outloud

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yeonban · 2 months

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I could play the 'spot the differences' game for 7-11 y.o Tobias and 17-21 y.o Tobias and frankly the only things that'd stand out are his build (taller & more masculine as he grows older) and the fact that kid him never smiled whereas if adult him doesn't smile... you've fucked up beyond reparation and are going to find yourself at the gallows the next time you wake up

#muse: tobias.#You know how people have a general tendency to go through several phases of how they look before they hit a certain age.#Yeah well Tobias never had that LMFAODSAJDSAS good thing barely anyone knew him as a kid and those who did are already dead #bc imagine faking your death and being listed as dead on all govt documents only for sb you knew to spot you on the street 10 yrs later #Wammy's House did one good thing about his personality and it's that he's now Friendly. or at least friendly-ish depending on who you are #bc man kid him would've cut your hand off with a FORK if you so much as Tried to touch him. regardless of whether it was for a pat or a hit #Wammy's House the domestication center for feral gifted children except it also trains them with various weapons until mastery AND #gives them all knowledge available to mankind for their own use. oopsie if the orphan in question becomes a criminal instead of a detective #Unironically Tobias lucked out so hard w this orphanage which makes it all the more hilarious that he can't stand Watari. WHO GOT HIM THERE

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713-4th-ward-g · 5 months

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#fucking swear i hate my dad so much #I'll never forgive him for how he was when i was a child #and right when i was starting to see him as a decent dude #he goes and acts like a child #youre 54 years old and raising your voice at me when i did nothing wrong #his stupid ass was the one who cut the pvc pipe and he thinks me telling him how to properly fix it is me criticizing him #and i told him you want me to criticize you ? fine. why were you cutting below the water lines to the washer?#theres clearly an opening showing the pvc pipe and you were the one who cut there still knowing it was there so why did you do it ?#you want me to criticize ill fucking criticize #all he has to say while screaming at me like im the one who created the problem saying shut the fuck up an go to sleep i dont want you here #he gives a stupid bullshit fix for it talking about using glue 😮‍💨 like dude you need pvc primer and glue to seal it correctly not fucking #elmers glue and tape wtf i was giving him an actual real option to fix it and he cusses me out like im the one who cut the damn pipe #i tried writing in my journal but my hand keeps cramping up #i cant stand how much of a child he is #he has no emotional control he takes his anger out of my mom and i and i fucking hate having to be the one to back away and apologize #when its his fucking issue not mine he was the one raising his voice when all i did was give him sound advice to fixing the broken pvc pipe #and i get cussed at and screamed at being told im criticizing when all i did was offer a solution to his own fucking problem he made worse #on his own accord and now hes breaking shit and kicking doors and slamming them all the while cussing over something #that can be fixed its cool to be like fucking shit i fucked up and get that energy out but to fucking throw a temper tantrum and break stuff #is fucking ridiculous it fucking takes me back to my childhood and how fucking horrible he was to my sister and i..#we walked on eggshells around him cause any little thing would make him erupt into anger and physical bouts...#lord forbid he has to do something around the house and he breaks something he will cuss and scream at us for no reason like we did it #but im in the one who has to apologize thats fucking bullshit #i really want to kill myself rn im so over the edge rn i just keep thinking of my mom and why i cant kill myself yet #not until she passes away i cant kill myself..#i long for the day i die im so tired of living here

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riosnecktattoo · 1 year

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i need society to learn what improvised actually means

#an actor coming up with an idea in rehearsal and then the lighting and scene being set up and THEN shot #is not improvising #like IT WAS IMPROVISED THATS SO COOL and theyre talking about a moment with multiple camera angles and plotted movements and many takes #people were so rabid saying that HotD matt smith crown moment was improvised #like the thing they were watching was a moment of true inspiration caught on camera #people will see multiple camera angles and cuts and be like 'ah yes such spontaneity'#the thing brett Goldstein did in that ted lasso ep is also not really improvising #he talked about it off camera and they set up the shot HOW HARD IS THIS TO GRASP #if you cant tell it bugs me #people get like this about DiCaprio cutting his hand and bleeding in that film #as if they didnt call cut give him care and then add fake blood to continue the scene respectfully to his costar #as if it would be cool to get cut and bleed and then wipe your actual blood on your costars face #and not something you should be arrested for lmao #'created spontaneously without preparation' IF YOU HAVE AN IDEA AND THEN BLOCK THE SCENE THATS PREPARATION MMKAYYY #grinds my gears #you can say 'this was improvised in rehearsals and then prepared' but thats NOT what people mean when they say omg this was improvved #you can just tell they saw an article that said this was improvised and now fully believe the scene they watched was the spontaneous moment #id say like actual improvisation is a lot of the stuff in succession because they set so many cameras up and let the actors go for it #anywhom #I'll stop now 🤓

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hatterstan-shameblog · 2 years

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high & low fans: how long was tsukumo in that coma? weeks? months?

#high and low #tsukumo #high & low posting #like seriously though how long was my man out?#i feel like it had to have been at least two weeks because everybody seemed to know about it and everything #long enough for kohaku to get emo i guess?#alsohow did his recovery work like did he just sit up one day and the doctor was like 'lmao heres your keys go have fun' and cut him loose?#you gotta hand it to him though. he jumped right back into the drama.#he was learning what was going on at the same time the audience was like i could NOT have handled that

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thebadtimewolf · 10 months

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hey

do yall know any genuine rose tyler stans that are actually upset about how s1 rose was treated as an equal AND a love interest but as soon as s2-s4 rose was treated more as a equal BECAUSE of her being pideonholed as only a 'i can do things too! see!' archetype of love interests that it took two other characters to be treated as an actual equal? like why did ten thru donna said that he needs an equal and that what the dr needs an equal??

rose was already an equal in season 1. its established bts that rose was an equal to ninth doctor? but now why didn't that sentiment continued on with ten? what happened?

like martha is treated like an actual equal because the dr in the past have always hated themselves, reflected back at them, but still shared the joy and comradarie during a joint adventure with said version of self. like even the time lord victorious two parter book - 8 was flirting and 10 flirted back but at the end of the day - both of em can carry themselves without the arrival of the other, leaving the eyerolling and mild disgust or disinterest aspect to ninth dr when he shared a room with them. like the dr not wanting to "date" martha even though he literally in text trying real hard to pull the wool in both ur qnd his own eyes is essentially him trying not to fuck himself.

donna is - in an almost wish-fufilled in what the dr missed from the master - considered an equal preestablished since season 3 guest appeared and fully in season 4. shes seen as a pea in the pod like the dr master rani and romana - keeping up with that specific lot of em without going thru the 'but im better than you' alien egoist rhetoric that the time lords fall to in times of upper handedness. she can manipulate she talk fast she tech-savvy yet people-grounded BUT she makes sure the respect isnt temporary and doesnt lord it over people because everyone is great and without that person, the whole system can fall apart.

because so far, it doesnt feel that way. like are yall not mad that tenth doctor gave rose up?

after seasons of build up and getting shot and everything? the funky alien eldritch being in a mask of an earth lookin boy that had a chance to man up and show feelings when the opportunity is very in your face given to him to do so in a space where he could do so and — he just gave her up? all that moping and whining and when given what he wanted, he just went: no. here. i need an equal and i have donna so im giving you what i TEN think you want as an equal in me and thats him. BUT NINEROSE ARE EQUALS SHE NEVER SAID SHE WANTED HIM HUMAN BUT RATHER HIMSELF AS HE IS.

its like fridging rose but worse. in s2-4 you made her in memory of someone else that ALWAYS treated her as an equal instead of actually continuing on with that with the next face. death wouldve been more forgiving and thats not a great thing to come to a conclusion to. The one that really treated you as both a love interest AND equal is dead, and now you're married to the discarded imitation of the one that only typecasted you as a love interest.

tentoo should be mad abt this too but this aint about him, this is about yall and the rose tyler connundrum.

i wouldve settled for her having the hand - settling for the hand if that hand turned into ninth doctor (like full on christopher eccleston doing donna impression everything) instead of what we got - which was dust. it made more sense that way. because then the dialogue narrative - the doctor's excuse - wouldve been more well recieved. Does it need saying would have more weight if Eccleston played a NineToo whispered i love you because you know it was well meant. Genuine. Its coming from someone that always treated you as an equal and also getting that i love you and not just - oh the human i love. i miss them not because i treated them on equal terms, its strictly because i only love them - no equality at all

like yeah chris wasnt going to return but hes a movie actor - hes used to green screen. he couldve sent a video message in a leather jacket and let it be done. like we couldve had nine saying i love you to rose on doomsday like do you get what im trying to say like. like tooth and claw if it was nine and rose both wouldve been like 'oh look at that a werewolf transformation!' And not what. we got. LIKE DO YOU SEE WHAT I MEAN

#tv: doctor who #c: rose tyler #c: ninth doctor #c: tenth doctor #{no because im tagging because i want genuine responses and not ANON HATE I WANT ACTUAL DEPH ANALYSIS}#{i dont think i have a tentoo tag. if i did i forgot}#{but i ship the dr with everybody including every TARDIS i see}#{but like i dont ship 10rose or 8rose. like those should be n' stay as platonic SO GLAD 8ROSE IS CANONICALLY PLATONIC thats drdonna LOVE IT}#{like 10martha is more appealing because that man flirted outwardly to her in front of a class and main hospital chief}#{meanwhile 10rose got deleted waste.of.time hand holding seasons 'we had to cut for time' professional sayin IT WAS A WASTE OF TIME}#{THEY CHOSE DUST INSTEAD OF THE FOOD NINE GAVE US FOR FREE WITH LATER 98% DISCOUNTS}#{so yeah but um yeah}#{but like yknow make a comprehensive argument: also goal here non poc ppl TRY NOT TO BE RACIST IN YOUR WORDS}#{i know how easily tempted you are as soon as you see martha and ten in the same sentence let alone the same post: check yo self}#{like 'oh rtd might bring to rose' he might kill her and its feeling and more like hes going to just to appease tories}#{because billie is VERY MUCH not a tory aka conservative so yeah do YOU see why i dont rose back but the moment}#{like he killed off 9 and that was probably due to him being antiroyalist so i IM RIGHTFULLY WORRIED FOR OUR GURL}#{IF she returns as rose tyler. if she returns as the interface THE MOMENT AS SHE IS WELLKNOWN FOR i wont have anythin to worry abt}#{as well as bts conditions but LIKE👀 the worry is there the worry is prevalent present and here}#{she need to come back with tentoo and mia in tow: linked arms handcuffed to each other SOMETHING THAT CALMS ME}#{i dunno who they'll cast for mia i dont care BUT MIA BETTER BE IN TOW WITH HER ON SCREEN IF IS MISS ROSE COME BACK}#{its to calm me.}

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