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scotianostra · 3 years

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The second of our murder stories today......

On February 10th 1306, John Comyn, a leading claimant to the vacant Scottish throne, was murdered by his arch-rival, Robert the Bruce, whilst in a Dumfries church.

Forget Braveheart, far from betraying William Wallace, the Bruce was inspired by him and, after the battle of Stirling Bridge he realised that Edward’s army could be defeated and Scotland eventually freed from English domination, but how best to go about this?

Setting Scotland free could not be achieved without an established leader and this would have to be sorted out quickly.

There were really only two men who could step up and become King, John Balliol had been out of the picture for too long and by this time would have been about 60 years old, Scotland needed a younger, more ambitious monarch, only two men were ready, and able to step up, Robert the Bruce himself or his arch enemy John “The Red” Comyn.

The two men were always at each other’s throats and distrusted each other completely.

The Bruce suggested that they could both meet in a church and discuss who should be the next king. With their supporters outside, the meeting took place by the high altar of Greyfriars Monastery, Dumfries. Nobody knows exactly what happened, but history tells us that Robert the Bruce murdered the Red Comyn in Greyfriars Monastery Blackfriars that day.

I like to dip into the old newspapers of the day, whatever the post, be it modern or like this ancient, and just like today they had their own agendas and bias, this was a typical English account

Robert de Brus, aspiring to the kingdom of Scotland, sacrilegiously killed the noble man John Comyn at Dumfries (where the justiciar of the king of England was then sitting in the castle) in the church of the Friars Minor, because [Comyn] would not consent to his treasonable action. Robert de Brus junior, earl of Carrick, grievously killed John Comyn, the greatest man in the whole nation of Scotland after the king, because the same John refused to consent to the treason of the same Robert and of the Scots against the king of England There are also some fuller narratives that give details about what had been going on, or at least their version of the events.

The first comes from a section of the Flores Historiarum written shortly after 1306 at Westminster Abbey – which of course was closely associated with Edward I.

In it, The Bruce meets with various Scottish nobles, ‘first secretly and then openly’; he tells them that, as they know, his father was not made king because of Edward I’s trickery, but now, if theycrown him, he will wage their war and liberate Scotland. Many perjurethemselves and agree. But when he asks the noble and powerful John Comyn for support, Comyn ‘firmly replied no’ – ‘so he slaughtered him’ in the Franciscan church at Dumfries.

This narrative was expanded in the fuller ‘Merton’ version of the Flores, possibly written for Edward II’s coronation in 1307. In this fuller account Comyn is given an eloquent speech saying the king of England has subjugated Scotland four times, and all Scots, knights and clergy, have therefore sworn fealty and homage to him for both the present and the future; so ‘let me take no part in this – truly, I shall never give assent in this matter, lest I am forsworn’. They argue at length, until Bruce draws sword and strikes the unarmed Comyn on the head; but the extremely strong Comyn tries to seize the sword from his assailant’s hands, and throws him down. However, the traitor’s attendants, rushing up to free their lord, stab Comyn with their swords. Comyn escapes to the altar; but‘Robert followed … and the impious and cruel man sacrificed his holy victim’. It is the most dramatic of all the accounts of the killing.

There are a number of other English versions of the murder, some written a decade or so later, they all believe that Robert Bruce was planning to become king well before Comyn’s death, which, though plausible is obviously based on hindsight.

One thing that the English chroniclers all agree on is Comyn’s insistence on upholding his homage and fealty to the English king, basically he was happy to be ruled by an English king. I have to say though, not just the English agreed with this, but it was only natural that the concept of the ultra-loyal, ultra-honourable Comyn was a vital piece of English propaganda against Robert I. Moreover, it would have been vehemently promoted by the rest of the Comyn kin, since the killing at Dumfries had transformed its members from leading upholders of the Scottish cause into dependent allies of Edward I who looked for his support in the bloodfeud with Robert I.

Okay enough of the English versions, let's look at what the Scots were saying and firstly we have The Scotichronicon (what a great name eh?) by chronicler John Bower who was a canon and abbot at Inchcolm Abbey on the Firth of Forth, a great place to visit by the way!.

In The Scotichronicon Comyn is consistently and famously portrayed as agreeing to help Robert Bruce become king in return for Robert’s lands, and then betraying this agreement to Edward I, remember I said about this in my post a few days ago about Bruce taking Dumfries. Well reflecting on this, Bower depicts Comyn as overcome by ‘the spirit of iniquity’; in other words he is an agent of the Devil. It is a theme in these chronicles, on both sides of the border, indeed in Europe as a whole to make statements like this, or comparing men to biblical figures, remember these stories were all written by deeply religious figures. The Comyns are shown to having a strong aversion towards William Wallace, for instance deserting him at Falkirk out of jealousy and ‘clear wickedness’.

Gesta Annalia, an important medieval chronicle detailing our history also points to the famous crown-for-land offer between Comyn and Bruce going on to say Comyn destroys this unity by betraying the agreement to Edward I, and that is why Bruce kills him. I have to say that this is the main gist of the story that I have understood to be true.

Gesta's accounts again head in the religious directions saying that God makes his greatest intervention in Scotland’s wars etc, etc. He says Bruce decided to put the public good before his own private interests and therefore approached Comyn humbly with the offer and he is clearly acting under divine influence. How does Bruce respond to God’s call? Only goes and murders Comyn in a church causing him to be excommunicated by the Pope!

Of course the most partisan version that we have of what happened is from John Barbour, author of The Brus. In this it agrees with Gesta, and other Scottish Chronclers the Comyn had proposed the deal and offered to support Bruce's claim for the crown in return for all of Bruce's existing lands and titles.

None of the religious nonsense for Barbour, this version is much more secular, and when it comes to the actual killing, Barbour’s account is succinct and brutal;

Sa fell it in the samyn tid That at Dumfres rycht thar besid Schir Jhone the Cumyn sojornyng maid. The Brus lap on and thidder raid And thocht foroutyn mar letting 30 For to quyt hym his discovering. Thidder he raid but langer let And with Schyr Jhone the Cumyn met In the Freris at the hye awter, And schawyt him with lauchand cher 35 The endentur, syne with a knyff Rycht in that sted hym reft the lyff. Schyr Edmund Cumyn als wes slayn And othir mony off mekill mayn. Nocht-for-thi yeit sum men sayis 40 At that debat fell other-wayis, Bot quhat-sa-evyr maid the debate Thar-throuch he deyt weill I wat. He mysdyd thar gretly but wer That gave na gyrth to the awter,

To sum things up the best explanation the English sources can offer for the intention to kill his rival is Bruce's innate wickedness, which is an understandable attitude for them to take in the circumstances but not especially convincing. Gesta, Fordun and of course Barbour are going to be more sympathetic to King Robert. All make the explicit claim that a written agreement existed between the two that Comyn had broken.

To go back to Barbour’s poem, in it he exonerated Bruce's sacrilegious murder as the just slaughter of a traitor. But this is no mere whitewash. The grave suffering which Bruce endures after his inauguration as king in 1306 represent a series of chivalrous and moral adventures in which Bruce proves himself worthy of his prize, but the murder, and it’s ramifications, that he was excommunicated, played greatly on his mind. You only have to look at the last hours of his life when he asked Sir James Douglas to carry his heart on a crusade, one which he was never himself able to take during his life due to the days events of February 10th 1310 in Dumfries.

You can read the full epic poem The Brus here https://www.gutenberg.org/files/44292/44292-h/44292-h.htm

#Scotland #scottish #medieval history #robert the bruce #john comyn #murder

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petewentzisblack1312 · 3 years

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hi i just read the fob powerpoint u made and its amazing!! i really love all the genre bending fob has done across their discography too and rarely see ppl talking about that in a positive way so ur posts are really refreshing! also u mentioned citizens fob and the promo stuff they did for folie is one of my favorite things from that era so id love to hear anything u have to say about it!! i somehow had no clue that the original release date for folie was election day and thats so funny jkfdgn

im SO glad you asked!! i did a little revision on the wiki page and its a lil more complicated than id initially thought (although its still a little funny.... a smidge funny)

citizens for our benefit had A LOT of different things going on. there were fake website hacks, ashlee made sure she got papped holding flyers for CFOB, there was Fresh Only Bakery, pete wore a gold mask with an envelope that said "doctors orders: when you put on your disguise would the world still recognise you?", other bands on decaydance helped out by having like citizens fob stuff on their instruments (the Cab did that) and making posts on their own websites and quoting citizens fob posts and stuff and it was specifically developed with george orwells 1984 in mind (very pete wentz brainchild of them). it really ties in to the themes they explored on the album, which like i said include the cult of celebrity, but also just like society on a whole. all in all, it was all just quintessential fall out boy. im very glad there was a return to form with mania (without the self imposed time limit) and they did their goofy little viral marketing campaign. i also wanna point out that Copeland also had a viral marketing campaign and for no goddamn reason they decided as part of it to fuck with fobs by creating a website called citizens FOUR our benefit and posting it on fob forums. bitches hate to see you thriving smh.

when it comes to the election day thing, as it turns out i got it twisted, and it was a lot more noble than simply being unable to. they made the decision to release their album on election day wayy before, but decided that the election was way too important, and did not want to detract from it, so they postponed the date, but were really insistent they wanted it released before the year ended, leading to the week long release date.

and actually on the topic of the time limit, we have the benefit of hindsight and everything but i cant get over the fact that they were like "we should try to catch our old first idea best idea spark and limit the time we have with this album" and "we should try to blend a lot more sounds and ideas and create a more orchestral and varied soundscape" and didnt think maybe those 2 things together might emotionally and mentally beat the everloving shit out of them. like i can say with certainty that fall out boy sounds best when they can polish their stuff to a shine, (honestly the former idea is done best on ab/ap which is a comparatively weak album bc of it but its thematically consistent!! and also very good dont @ me) and sonically, folie is AMAZING, its a dynamic and beautiful soundscape that really captures the idea of a continuous soundtrack where every part has its place, and i think the theme they explored with it is great, but god id love to know how much less scattered the different parts of the overarching theme would be if they hadnt had the stupid idea to give themselves a short leash on an album with such an ambitious composition. like they got pretty political at times on that album, but it just feels like they didnt give themselves the time to really think about what they were tackling in which song. like on other albums each song is a self contained exploration of a part of the theme whereas thematically folie bleeds into itself a lot more.

tldr, they Wildin.

#dils declares #okay someone reccomend a better fall out boy reference for meta tags.#dils dissects #folie

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phantom-thieves-official · 4 years

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What did you think of P5R's ending? (I'm sorry if you already said this)

I've talked about it briefly while discussing my thoughts on the game overall, but I've had some time to think on it now & here's my current opinion:

The ending was... fine. I don't dislike the decision to have all the characters go their own way, and although for most of them that seems like the logical step in their character development, my emotional side wants them to all stay together.

Speaking of, some of the futures the characters said they were pursuing were better than others. Haru, who's confidant focuses heavily on struggling to run Okumura foods & pursue her ideas for the company, is going to college for business. Great, love it. Futaba, who's character growth pretty much all centers on putting herself out there & living a normal life without anxiety getting in the way, is going to high school. Perfect, also nicely opposes the scene in her confidant where you show her around Shujin and she ends up feeling anxious & sad. Ann is going to go all in on whatever she thinks will help with her modeling, choosing to study abroad in pursuit of that goal. Good! Her arc, while it's not the main focus, does have smaller elements centered on her learning to tackle things head-on and take them more seriously, her modeling being one of them (in fact, part of her confidant explicitly states she previously only thought of modeling as a hobby and she now wants to work at it seriously.)

Ryuji's goal to start doing track again seems very opposed to his confidant arc, but I can't quite say it's entirely bad. His confidant never implies he doesn't want to run anymore, just that he doesn't want to go back to the track team. I suppose joining a track team at a different school isn’t in direct opposition with his lack of desire to join Shujin's team again. It still doesn't sit quite right with me, but it's not as bad as I initially thought. Plus, it's good to see Ryuji actively pursuing something rather than settling for the troublemaker role he's been boxed into. He strikes me as the least ambitious character, partially bc of the box he's been put in, so I'm happy to see him taking the initiative. And this might be a small thing but he also mentions he's going to run again because he likes it & wants to, but multiple times beforehand we've seen at least part of his reasoning before was in the hopes of getting a scholarship to help his mom (not to imply he didn't love track before, just that it's good to see him pursue something solely bc he wants to, yknow?)

The worst of the bunch are Yusuke & Makoto, who are given no stated goals of any real substance. Yusuke is simply hoping to finish his painting, and Makoto is.... moving out to live on her own. Neither of these seem particularly impactful nor relevant to the characters' growth (Makoto's especially seems lackluster considering a good portion of her growth is about her finding her own path & pursuing the goals and future she wants/believes in. But when it comes time for the game to show her doing this, she makes no decisions at all.)

I feel that, on the whole, the narrative would have been better served if Akechi had legitimately survived Shido’s palace. Maruki brought him back to life, and it’s safe to assume he willingly turned himself in (as in, that was not Maruki twisting reality, that was his decision made entirely on his own). But Lindsey, I hear you cry, Akechi’s character growth centered around him finally making his own decisions, no longer being manipulated and controlled, and that’s exemplified when he chooses to reject Maruki despite knowing he will return to a reality in which he’s dead! And sure. I’ll give you that. But the same ideas could have been presented in any number of ways. If I am to believe Akechi’s character truly does center on the idea that he is finally a) able to and b) allowing himself to make his own choices; to decide the truth of things for himself; then why did it have to be shown in a way that still ends with his death? I have a few big problems with Akechi’s fate. One: dying is the easy way out. Instead of being forced to face the consequences of his crimes (something he was willing to do, as he did turn himself in) he dies. He escapes the consequences related to the things he’s done, which feels especially bad when I consider that he was willing to face the consequences. He was at the start of a properly-handled redemption! And instead of seeing that through, they killed him off still. Two: Through Akechi’s confidant, both in vanilla p5 and p5r, it’s obvious one of the things he’s least capable of facing & expressing his honest feelings about are the Phantom Thieves, Joker in particular. The scene where he dies he gets called out for it, as he’s acting like he hates Joker and doesn’t care; acting like he truly wants Joker dead; but in truth he does care. He does want friends and teammates and he does like Joker. He doesn’t want to kill Joker. But he’s so under Shido’s thumb and so deep in his own head that he can’t be honest - and when he finally comes to his senses, he’s killed. Now please consider. If his growth is even in part supposed to be about him deciding the truth for himself, then doesn’t it stand to reason that he should be given the chance to make his own choices about his friendship with Joker, clear of Shido’s influence? He should be allowed to rectify things. He should be given the opportunity to rebuild the relationship, after facing the consequences he deserves, of course. His feelings towards Joker were clearly such a huge point of contention in his confidant, it is baffling to me that he isn’t given any sort of closure on that at all. His working with the group in Maruki’s palace doesn’t come close to the sort of arc he should have gotten, as it’s an almost begrudging alliance formed out of necessity and not in any way is it Akechi forming his own honest opinion about Joker.

Maruki could have died when his Palace collapsed and I wouldn’t have cared. He’s got a sob story but that doesn’t excuse his full-blown god complex and the incredible depravity of just deciding what’s best for people and forcing that upon them. I wish he actually faced any repercussions, truth be told, but he doesn’t. He just shows up happy as can be at the end. He got off wayy too easy.

#long post #mod answers #asks #p5r spoilers #dude im so sorry abt rambling this got so out of hand #wow im advocating for akechi to live. never thought id see the day.

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sugawaras · 7 years

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alright so can you tell me what this all means. I'm a Slytherin, Thunderbird, INTJ, Sagittarius with a Thestral patronus and my friends is a Ravenclaw, Horned Serpent, INTP, Gemini with a Beagle patronus. Could you tell us what it means individually and maybe even compatibly/friendship? You don't have to use all of the information given. Thanks!

Heyo im definitely not an expert when it comes to these characteristics but ill give it a shot!! I’m vv sorry if this turns out to be horribly inaccurate hahaBeing a slytherin, sagittarius, and thunderbird, you’re ambitious and you’re not afraid of following your dreams, wherever they might be. Your intelligence + drive make a great combination and you do what it takes to get where you want to be. You’re adventurous, but not necessarily in a social landscape. However, if someone insults something you believe strongly in, you have no problem with coming up with a snarky/sarcastic remark (ROASTED), but sometimes you just say it in your head hahaBeing an intj may mean that you have a little more difficulty making friendships. It might not come easy to you, but the friends you do make are ones you love with all your heart. I think you’d be the type of person who has a few really close friends, rather than someone who has a wide circle of friends that aren’t as close. You pick your friends carefully, and your group of friends probably has one thing in common: they’re all intelligent, and i dont mean that they all get good grades. They’re generally aware of social issues, and probably have common interests - such as art and other intellectual interests - with you. Even your friends who may appear a little more easy-going/laidback value things that are more ambiguous (books, movies, video games, etc.)Here’s what I think about your friend, coming from someone who’s also a gemini and beagle patronus (though i’ve gotten about 10 different patronus results tbh)!!You value intelligence, wisdom, and logic. This is kinda obvious, considering you’re a ravenclaw, but you’re truly someone who believes that “wit beyond measure is man’s greatest treasure!” You strive to do well in your academics, and like your friend, you’re very ambitious when you set your mind on something. You’re a very logical person, but I don’t necessarily think you’re lacking at all when it comes to creativity. You might have a deep appreciation for creative things, such as art, poetry, musicals, etc. I think you care more about your grades than your friend, mainly because what you pursue in life relies on having a good GPA and getting a good education. You’re a very bright person, and these qualities are all things your friends admire about you, especially when you get passionate about your ideas.. Here’s what I think about your friendship! This is based a lil bit on my friendship with one of my friends, who’s also a sagittarius slytherpuff. You both have very common interests and traits, but I’m willing to bet that one of you is normally calmer than the other (or one of you is better at faking it haha)! You enjoy intellectual things and the philosophical aspect of life. If either of you ever makes their own art/original work, you support and encourage each other endlessly. You can go from having a deep discussion about life to laughing about memes in half a second, but you’re both smart and quick-witted when it comes to humor. Maybe you both enjoy listening to musicals and busting out the lyrics together, and sometimes you’re more into just walking around a museum together and admiring the architecture and exhibits. You guys might also make the occasional sarcastic, snarky remark from time to time about people who are more simple-minded, whilst marveling at their stupidity - just a theory tho!! Overall, your friendship is strong because you have so many similar - yet different - characteristics. You’re both smart, ambitious, and thoughtful. However, you don’t always agree on social interactions, how to talk to other people, and how much is too much. Nonetheless, you balance each other out. Hope your friendship stays strong!! xx (sorry this is so long yikes)Also - my friend @siriusnox is wayy better when it comes to astrology, so feel free to talk to them about this too!! They’re also the sagittarius friend i mentioned, so they’re vv experienced when it comes to this sort of thing.

#ask #anon #this is way too long I'm honestly so sorry

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