#op i dont want to talk over you or derail

[neonsamurai]

About the recent Kerry Drama:

I had a long very interesting talk with @makkwastaken who boiled up the comunity again with his post about the Kerry tag.

Things got out of hand reeeaalllyy fast and derailed into an corner that it shouldnt. Because i am that type of person whos always curious about WHY a person posts something agressive and what makes them feel a certain bitter way i stepped in and talked to the OP via Dm ... trying to figure out what went wrong

Hes aware of his offensive tone now and all this bullshit today is the result of misscomunication and one sided argouments (one sided because a normal conversation Is impossible in that way)

so okay:

WHAT was this mess all about?

FIRST of all, op has NOTHING against Bi-Kerry, Fem!V or them being a ship!!! it sadly just came of as such! NO HATE ok? Just overboiling emotions

in fact it has nothing to do with kerry being bisexual at all.

We took this out of the equation to dig down to the real issue.

Op was scared that with rising popularity of KerryxFem!V the canon ship might gets overlooked and ignored at some point.Overeacted out of panic (op having ADHD doesnt help the cause too).

So far Male!V x Kerry is even dominant in the tag :)

But WHY that fear?

Theres the fact that the “ Kerry Discourse “ comes up a LOT in our Fandom

This never ends nice.

I noticed its mainly two big fractions who headbutt with each other trying stand their ground.

Those who want to protect Kerrys Bisexuality and well deserved Bi-representation

And those wo fear they loose their Gay-representation if Kerry loves more women then men in the tag via fanart, fics and etc.

I also noticed that the mlm side fear the Bi kerry movement is all about empowering Female!V only to date who she wants...when its in fact about empowering KERRY and him being free to date who he wants.

AS LONG those two fractions cant find a common ground, explain their fears and wishes..., things will excalate over and over again ...

Things even can go worse when the mlm side starts to cling on Kerry for their rep and fear of loosing it...trying to gatekeep like today...and getting agressive in their statements when its about something completely different..

THIS attracts those who ship Kerry with Fem!V out of spite just to piss off those who might not see kerry as bisexual yet (or headcanon him entirely gay) ..letting the fear boil up again and so on. yes they exist...i saw people talking about it and if you do that thats not the right way!!!

...its an downward spiral of hate and fear...

you should love Kerry because hes GREAT and not because something pisses you off.

Result?

The Kerry tag should be for EVERYONE and ANNYONE

this counts for everyone.. but specially those who ship Kerry x fem!V out of spite AND those who cling to their mlm representation hissing at the Girls who just love Kerry as much as they do

...i talked with op about this and he agrees with me...apologizing for the mess today and those who got hurt and confused

if we just let people fucking ship what they want, as long they respect canon ,things will be fine!!!

Share your headcanons in peace! if someone thinks Kerry is gay? Fine, try to show them why hes not, but also look at the other persons argouments! maybe they see something we dont :).

But in the end it can be an Headcanon and i am more then fine with that.

-Neonsamurai

#Cyberpunk 2077 #Kerry Eurodyne #IMPORTANT

[tetranocular]

theres so many posts that i would love to reblog because i emphatically agree with them, but because they dont encapsulate the entirety of my opinion, i don’t, since it would be derailing the post and it probably come off as rude to add my own two cents

like, i of course dont know why the person made the post or what their full thoughts are on a subject, since a post is just a little snippet of a person’s internal monologue that’s been tailored specifically for online consumption, so it feels extra rude to assume that they don’t hold a more nuanced opinion than the one provided

but GOD theres so many posts i want to comment on with a... i won’t say opposing opinion, but a.. perpendicular one? not opposite, and not separate. it isn’t parallel, it just intersects, but isn’t opposing it

i just don’t want to seem like i’m disagreeing, because i’m not! im agreeing AND providing a small bit of defense for the other side, because like 99% of issues are NOT black and white

like i saw a post that was talking about the desexualization of trans bodies, and how someone drawing a trans guy without a binder isnt inherently a fetish thing, and its really shitty to trans creators to attack them over designs that are meant to mirror actual trans bodies 

and i agree! emphatically! yes absolutely! 

AND 

there are many people who draw trans people as mere caricatures. things either meant to be oversexualized and fetishized, or overexaggerated in a more disdainful and derogatory manner. even other trans people do this! i’m sure we all know who i’m making reference to, if you were on tumblr a few years back and had to bear witness to some pretty uncomfortable pieces

oftentimes, people who fall into the latter category feel vindicated from posts like the former. posts like the former are GREAT and i love them and i agree wholeheartedly, and it’s not the OP’s responsibility to bar people from the latter category from agreeing with the post—in fact, it would be impossible for the OP of a post to prevent unwanted people from reblogging it—so this is not a complaint on the OP’s behalf. i just wish intellectual discussions were more of a thing, and comments that don’t COMPLETELY align with the OP’s point weren’t seen as a disagreement (which didn’t happen with that specific post, so please don’t assume such)

i’ve seen so many well-meaning responders get immediately shut down even though there often IS a discussion to be had, just because people have a knee-jerk reaction to someone playing the devil’s advocate (which like... i do get, i have a pretty visceral reaction to that phrase too, but i promise that it’s not an inherently bad thing)

i guess what i really want to say here is that one extreme is not better than the other, and i wish more people would allow a nuanced discussion to be had regarding topics that probably actually require a way more nuanced take than what’s being offered

this is NOT me saying that posts that take a firm stance on one side or the other are bad, NOR is it me saying that the OPs of said posts are bad. and once again, it is NOT the OPs responsibility to take all of this into account. these posts are great and i love them, and i appreciate it when people are bold enough to take a stance on matters that are important to them and other people

i just wish that it was more acceptable to say “yes AND”, without being met with hostility 

#speaking of #you can definitely 'yes and' this post #if you have thoughts i mean #i like intellectual discussions

[feralphoenix]

related to previous reblog but enough of its own thing that i dont want to hide this in the tags or derail the specific topic op wants to discuss...

if youre in fandom and youre white/christian/generally in a position of privilege, please remember that youre overstepping if you attempt to dictate the tone of any conversation about racism (or other prejudice you dont experience) in that fandom.

this goes for interactions between real life people (fan to fan, creator/staff and fan etc), and marginalized people talking about how racism & other prejudice is depicted in a work of fiction (whether that’s a headlining theme of the work or ppl seeing subtext you don’t see/relating their real life experiences or their people’s history to events in the text).

it might make you feel uncomfortable to see those discussions and think about the implications people are talking about. that’s ok. but this is a place where you should sit in and think through your discomfort privately/with therapeutic help instead of trying to shut people down. remember that whatever discomfort you’re experiencing cannot compare to the pain you’re hearing people express. you’re being given an opportunity to learn and grow as a person if you choose to listen respectfully, so it would be very cool of you to take that opportunity.

(i am SPECIFICALLY talking about privilege here & not lateral violence/conflict, frex. white fans shutting down poc fans talking about forms of racism, practicing/nonpracticing/atheist cultural christian fans shutting down non-christian fans talking about the effects of christian hegemony, ppl who currently id as cis & het talking over queer ppl. the power dynamics involved in conflict between marginalized communities is a very different matter from what im discussing here)

#this is smth ive been talking about on tweeter since starwar wank over a. driver's character whose name im not mentioning here #liking that character or ships involving that character or wanting rehabilitation and growth for that character isnt racist n doesnt make u #a bad person. HOWEVER if you (general you) were to publicly pooh-pooh jewish/muslim/native fans talking abt how that character reminds #them of very real historical & modern political factions/hate groups whove committed genocide against them...... thats very racist. so dont #id rather people dont r./ebagel this because im old and tired. yes i Will block offenders you Have been warned

[xwynn]

y’all make the mistake of seeing someone talking specificaly about anti Blackness or the Black experience and thus Black issues and derail it for it to be it to more inclusive to all poc and then when the OP says dont derail their posts you find it to be racist. The BLM movement and anti Blackness work in general is so often piggybacked by other people and thus the focus is no longer Black people but it is all people of color when the “poc” experience and oppression and associated history is not at all homogenous nor you can you make any blanket statements on it so it is frankly rude to come into a space specifically talking about Black issues, which in and of itself including every other point of intersecting identities like Black lgbtq+, Black and disabled, Black and muslim, and so on and so forth and demand or expect that space to talk about nonBlack issues and experiences of people of color and to do the work for nonBlack people of color. It is disingenous for me, a Black person, to enter a space for latinos or southeast asians and not only try to speak on the behalf of that group but to also expect them to shift focus and do the work on antiBlackness racism when they do not know the Black experience, Black issues in and out of the community, and Black history and would be disingenous for those groups to enter Black spaces and expect the same. Y’all are unable to realize that a Black person talking intentionally and specifically about Black issues wanting to only talk about that is not that the person doesnt care for other marginalized groups its that they either arent speaking on it at that moment and/or they know that they are not at all knowledgeable about that group and their histories and thus it would be disrespectful to talk about those marginalized groups.

Essentially, y’all have made the crucial and racist mistake of demanding Black people lead the change and movements of groups that they are not apart of and when that person declines and says they will only talk about Black issues and will not allow their conversations to be derailed to something else y’all call them racist because you’re unable to acknowledge that one person saying they wont speak on something doesnt mean that they dont care but even more you expect Black people to do the hard work for you instead of doing it yourself for your own marginalized group and thus y’all throw a temper tantrum and cry wolf and I have seen it over a hundred times on tumblr itself.

[abundantchewtoys]

HS Epi Meat, page 4 reaction

So, is John going to zap to the next plot point now, or will it switch back to Earth C?

I wonder, if it's the latter, whether we might see something from an antagonist, or a less important character, like Jack Noir or GCATavrosprite. And if the former, I wonder if John will venture further into (a retconned version of) the Game Over timeline, or not?

---

"You arrive in the Land of Heat and Clockwork in a flash of white." OOOoooh, LOHAC! Will he visit Dave - well, presumably yes. But will he revisit the moment he zapped back to, when he came to ask for help regarding his retcon powers?

... I kind of like Blaperile's idea better, that he revisits the point in time he disrupted before, the conversation between Dave & Jade, but which he afterwards retconned again, sending himself to go find Roxy? ... Wait, it was never really explained where that John that bapped himself on the head came from, I swear, if this is (out-of-comic) retconned as having been this 23-year-old John... Okay, I might have forgotten if Rx John had already gone back. ... Okay yeah, it already happened. Page 8333 vs 9047 of Homestuck. Anyway...

Hmm, GO Dave never used the eggsword much in the end (Caledfwlch), as he went after Jade's body and tied to a critical devilbeast combo. But I don't think John'll take it?

"Through the condensation you can make out the shapes of Dave and Jade below, as well as two more of you hovering in the air above. Both Johns turn to look at you." PFfffffff, of course he draws his other selves attention. Why would it resolve so cleanly as they zapping away in the background. Dave had a fit before when he saw one, but now, if he'll acknowledge all three...

"On the ground, Dave is talking in a particular cadence, one that is familiar to you, his longtime best buddy. Casual, wandering, verging on droning. It’s a good indication he’ll be monologuing for a while, and probably already has been." Yeah, GO Dave was summing up all the reasons he didn't particularly want to do anything about LE. Retconned Dave just thought he should fulfill the prophecy to get it over with, but that's about the end of his commitment in the matter too. Only Davepetasprite^2 really felt like going up against LE. Will Caledfwlch make it into their hands?

"DAVE: thats what...DAVE: you do...DAVE: with..." Awesome, he even gets trailed off at exactly the same moment in his monologue. :D

"DAVE: karate. john what the fuck are you doing hereDAVE: or... waitDAVE: actually three johnsDAVE: hey three johns what the fuck are three johns doing here" Dave is so whatever about this, it's hilarious. Then again, he's been all around LOHACSE thrice in a single day, he's got some experience in the matter of walking around alt time selves.

Also, I wonder if Dave (and Jade) will notice he's an older version of John. If not, his god tier powers probably keep him youthful, like Superman.

"It’s a fair question, which logically should have been directed to the oldest and most knowledgeable John. Nevertheless, one of the younger Johns replies first." Pfff, the second oldest one then? The one that came back here with a semblance of purpose, not randomly zapping through canon? Plus, if Dave wouldn't notice a difference between the Johns, neither would the younger ones.

"(JOHN 1): er.(JOHN 1): i don’t know." Ooooh! Cool, not just are they parenthesed, the Johns are now also numbered! Yeah, we wouldn't want them to just all be named John, that'd be insane and probably what Jade went through with PCG & FCG from her end (aka two ?CG's).

"JOHN 3: john, don’t worry about it. i’ll take things from here.DAVE: johns dont get me wrong its cool that you all randomly dropped by again but this wasnt really the best time" Hah, yeah John, try and get that semblance of knowing what you're doing back, like you acted out on LOPAN against your past selves. I'm actually interested to see whether he will be as dismissive towards his other selves as back then. Right, this is the second time Dave saw John, after the time he dropped in when Dave was looking at his old photographs.

"DAVE: we were kind of in the middle of a thing here(JOHN 1): whoops. sorry.(JOHN 2): uh... actually, i only came here to swoop in and zap this john away without being seen, to retcon away the mess i made earlier.(JOHN 2): i didn’t expect to see another john here.

JOHN 3: hey, other john, i said i’ll handle it!

JOHN 3: i’m the only one who actually knows what’s going on here.DAVE: god damn it johns what the fuck did you do" John 1 fucked it up, John 2 would've fixed things but then John 3 came back and fucked up some more. It's like the goddamned Primer movie all over again.

"JOHN 3: young dave, please.

JOHN 3: let me deal with the johns first, then i’ll explain.DAVE: young dave???" Why did that make me think of WV's polite commands. "Sir John" and all that. :P I think the other Johns will be able to get resolved easily enough, one zapping the other away to bop him in the head, both confused over the mess they left behind.

"DAVE: ohDAVE: yeah why are you a fucking adult now" OOOOOOh, nice! Okay, even though it'll be all shades of awkward, I really like the age difference isn't getting skimmed over.

"DAVE: did you grow up and start time traveling dude" Take that, reverse it.

"JADE: will someone tell me what the fuck is happening???????" Oh right, Grimbark Jade's text colour thingy!

"JOHN 3: johns, there’s no reason for you to hang around anymore.

JOHN 3: not to sound like a wet blanket, but the things you’re trying to accomplish are now useless, so you can just zap away and do whatever you want.(JOHN 1): ummm...(JOHN 2): useless?? wait." Harsh much, John. Also, just cause they won't/aren't you, they can just go become you, or whatever how you want to put it.

"JOHN 3: ok, maybe i shouldn’t have said that.

JOHN 3: i’m sure you can still go and do what i did when i originally did what you’re currently trying to do...DAVE: jesus john" Dave's inner time logistician is crying. John's retcon powers are so OP, he doesn't have to take any care in keeping time loops going if he doesn't want to. But that'd just result in copies of him flying around, so he'd best to just send them on their way, hopefully never to run into them again.

"

JOHN 3: in fact, it will still probably be a very rewarding experience!

JOHN 3: some of my best memories happened right after you do what you’re about to do next." I was thinking of the meet-up with his friends in general, but yeah, it's probably mostly about meeting Roxy, which is the closest thing to happen to (John 1)'s point in time.

"JOHN 3: the point is, you should just go do it, so that you aren’t here anymore." Savage.

"JOHN 3: i’m here to make sure some new and different important things happen, and those things don’t include you.

JADE: :|(JOHN 1): oh...(JOHN 2): ...ok.

The useless Johns zap away. You sincerely hope that they have a beautiful and fulfilling youth." ... That's not what your mouth ended up conveying there, John. Nor your thoughts, I mean, "useless", dear god man, have some alt self respect. :P

"DAVE: adult john what the fuck have you doneDAVE: is this some time travel shitDAVE: please dont tell me youve been spending the next however many years bungling through time like this because tbh if what i just witnessed was even remotely indicative of shit you get up to on a recurring basis then your future is almost too embarrassing to even think aboutDAVE: and this is coming from a teenager who was just in the middle of an angsty episode" Self aware Dave tirades are still the best. :D

"JOHN: i used my retcon abilities to travel here from the future, in a manner of speaking.DAVE: sounds fuckin stupidJOHN: it is stupid. but that’s just how things are." Glad they can agree to agree on that very valid assessment. :P

"JADE: im a little confused

JADE: im supposed to be hunting you down and capturing you... but im not sure if the adult version of you counts?

JADE: i think the condesce might just be... confused if i brought her an adult john?" Oooh, is this conflicting with her "programming" some how? Doggy Jade is confused, that's actually intruiging that she's given pause.

"JOHN: no, you don’t need to capture me, and you wouldn’t be able to even if you wanted to, since my existence literally transcends the confines of canon.

JADE: well...

JADE: i guess that simplifies things then?" John bullshitting his way to victory over people smarter than him, it remains a sight to behold.

"

JADE: in that case, would you mind giving me and dave a few minutes to wrap up our conversation?" XD Lol, wut????? Hahahah, Paradox Space really can only handle so much derailment to a timeline. At some point it just throws up it's arms and goes "leave me be, for five minutes, I was busy here!"

"JADE: we were sort of in the middle of something important... i thinkJOHN: no, you really weren’t.JOHN: sorry to be the bearer of lame news, like i just was to the other johns.JOHN: but whatever you were doing doesn’t matter anymore.JOHN: nothing that’s happening here matters at all.JOHN: this session, this whole takeover by the condesce... this isn’t how a universe gets made.

JADE: its not?JOHN: no." Sorry to break it to ya, but you're in a doomed timeline.

"DAVE: so what nowDAVE: if its all a done deal like preemptively speakingDAVE: can we all just relax or whatJOHN: actually...JOHN: no." Okay... So, what, can he just recruit these guys off and zap off with them to the next plot point? Won't something have to be done about the grimbarkness first? Also, if the next plot point is in the same timeline... Game Over really gets derailed. No Jade, no swapping Derse for LOFAF.

"DAVE: fuckJOHN: ah! i just realized why she sent me to this point in time to start recruiting you all.DAVE: whatDAVE: who" Rose, but not your Rose, although perhaps with the memories of that Rose, so kinda your Rose. :P Okay, so it's not that Rose's letter gave more detailed instructions than to zap there & recruit. So John'll have to figure out what to bring besides the people, in some cases at least. Like, here that would be Caledfwlch.

"JOHN: this is the moment just after you made your legendary cue ball sword.JOHN: you’re going to need it.DAVE: for whatJOHN: to come fight lord english with me.

Dave’s eyebrows descend beneath his sunglasses. You feel pretty bad because you’re about to completely circumvent the life-changing epiphany he’s just had that you know for a fact will make him a happier, chiller, and altogether more well-balanced human being." :/ Yeah, Dave really was happier cheating his way out of the prophecy. But then, he could only become so happy if someone else took care of the REAL Lord English for him. Guess another Dave'll have to bite the dust for "alpha" Dave again. Then again, epiphany or not, GO Dave might have ended up happy... but then he'd have been a happy ghost, for just as long until LE or the black hole got to him.

Still, man, I'm feeling for the guy. It's one thing to reject the call when it's an abstract prophecy or artefact thrust on you. But now it's his best friend asking him to join him in a crazy last stand. That's... actually one of the toughest challenges any Dave has had.

"DAVE: oh shit" ... Best underwhelming response he could have. :D

"JADE: what??

JADE: john. he is NOT going to fight lord english just yet

JADE: he is staying right here

JADE: old ladys orders :PJOHN: actually, yes he is." I'm sensing a showdown coming, but I wonder how swift John will take care of her, can his mangrist trump First Guardian swiftness? Oh, yeah, and he could turn into the Breeze too, I recall. Yeah, Jade's gonna bite the dust.

"JOHN: and so are you. we all are." Oooooh, okay, he wants everyone from the GO timeline to take a swing. Cool that he's getting his gang back together. Still, the age difference! :P Everyone but Roxy might be a little wary of it. (I'm saying that because at one point Roxy crushed on Jane's Dad.

"JADE: omg

JADE: how dare you?????JOHN: jade, you’re brainwashed.JOHN: sorry. but nothing you’re saying now means anything." Like, I understand where he's coming from, but dang John, still so brutal.

"JOHN: it’s fine though, you’ll stop being brainwashed once i zap you outside the influence of the condesce." Oooh, round trips to blankspace it is? I don't think it'll be to LOWAS, just to "a" point in blankspace they can be "stored" until the gang is assembled.

"JADE: youre not zapping me anywhere!!!!!JOHN: ha ha, yes i am.JOHN: watch this...

> Zap Grimbark Jade outta there." Has he learned to do a snap to zap her away while staying behind himself? Like how Jade zapped everyone to LOMAX.

It would be anticlimactic for John's retcon powers to suddenly cease working here. It would also be very Hussie for that to happen spontaneously. :P But then again, not likely as he'll use the same power to go to LOCAM (Caliborn's planet).

"You set a hand on Jade’s shoulder and zap her off to a better place. Then you touch down on the concrete surface where the whole pointless confrontation was taking place so that you can talk Dave around whatever it is he’s going through right now. Dave, like his ecto-sister, really needs to get in an absurd amount of extraneous words before he can fully process a situation.

The Mayor tips his head at you and fiddles with his sash. God damn, you missed the Mayor." Ah, okay, that particular conversation we might not see in its entirety? Or maybe we will. In any case, right, WV was there! Aww, yes we missed him. But hey, seems like John at least took a little time before they travelled into the future, to get to know WV? I wonder if he ever found out he was his exile, probably not.

"DAVE: so what do we do nextJOHN: well, i’ll leave you to hang out with jade for a bit, while i go round up the others." Hey, it occurred to me, Dave & Jade could have a chat while they wait, work some things out. A similar conversation as that GO Dave & Jade presumably had right after their deaths, when they woke up next to each other in the dreambubbles!

"DAVE: what others... likeDAVE: everyoneJOHN: yes. rose, and the other four." Yeah, this is speeding things up rapidly as far as the meetup between the kids is concerned. Dave & Dirk might benefit from some alone time out in blankspace together, mirroring their LOTAK conversation. Also, this means John will be zapping into the outer reaches of the session to retrieve Dirk, hahah. ... I wonder if the glitches from the stardust will be causing any disturbance, probably not anymore since the stardust was blown out of the cartridge, admittedly at a "later" point in the timeline.

Blaperile has a good point, what about Roxy? I'm going to assume that, by the time gets around to breaking her out of jail, John 1 or an equivalent John has already visited her. But I don't remember if they talked about the ring already back then. I do still think John will be giving her the ring to go revive Calliope, but the exact feelings around the moment will remain to be seen.

"DAVE: i seeDAVE: so...DAVE: sorry if i seem a little slow here im just trying to figure this outDAVE: youre telling me that i made this sword because im destined to defeat lord english and weve all been training for that day our whole lives to some extent more or lessDAVE: and we are actually successful here like we overthrow the condesce and make a universe and everythingDAVE: and thenDAVE: we..." ... Yeah, this timeline won't spawn a universe, it's already been done, it exists, no point in repeating the whole process. This session is now void again. Dave tries to build a timeline in his head that makes sense, but the sad thing is, his future is uncertain. Though, he might not be sad at all? I mean, not if the future is his to be written, right?

"DAVE: sit on our asses for several years in the new universe and become adults and lead mostly boring lives instead of going off to fight him?" ... Or, does Dave really DO understand what has happened, that he's picking up left over plot behind some other version of him.

"JOHN: yes.DAVE: guess that makes senseDAVE: now that i think about it thats probably what i would want to do by the time we finally wrap up this whole hot messJOHN: yep, it is what you wanted to do.JOHN: and pretty much everyone else agreed, including me. so that’s what we did." Not sure how conscious the decision was for them at the time, but sure.

"DAVE: which uhDAVE: i guess begs the questionDAVE: if it seemed pointless at the time and nobody could be assed to go fight him when we all had our shit togetherDAVE: why does it suddenly become important to go back and beat him years later after we become a bunch of lazy adults with boring lives" You'd have to ask Rose but she wouldn't remember in this timeline so the point is kind of mute. :P

"JOHN: i pretty much had the same questions, dave.JOHN: there are probably some pretty good answers to that. definitely some complicated answers.JOHN: but to be honest... i kind of forget what they actually were?DAVE: god damn it john" Pfffffff. John "it seemed important at the time so here i am" Egbert, everyone.

"JOHN: it has something to do with canon unraveling, and such.JOHN: we all live outside canon in the future, and if we don’t do go do this, everything will stop meaning anything.DAVE: does...DAVE: anything you just said actually mean anything in the first place" There's a song that comes to mind from Volume 9, "Everything means Something to Somebody". To Dave, it must be sound like the same level of fortune cookie wisdom.

"JOHN: that’s a great question, dave.JOHN: one that i can’t say i’m qualified to answer!JOHN: i think the bottom line here is, this is what rose said we had to do.JOHN: so, that’s why we’re doing it.DAVE: sounds like a bullshit reason if i ever heard oneJOHN: you might be right.JOHN: but is it less of a bullshit reason than any other reason we currently have to go fight him?DAVE: ...DAVE: damnDAVE: youre rightDAVE: i dont know how you did it but you somehow instantly sold me completelyDAVE: fuck you adult egbert" At some point, the scales will buckle just from the shear heap of bullshit piled on.

"You zap Dave off to where he needs to go. The Mayor is still staring at you, blinking his buggy little eyes. You shoot him a warm smile and a thumbs-up before bouncing off into the ether of infinity." Awww, actually, leaving WV behind can't be all bad for him. He can find Serenity in here, PM too. Condesce might very well leave for the Furthest Ring, and then this session is up for sale to anyone. And with the royalty down for the count, WV can take over. Well, okay, WQ... probably blew up when Union Jack broke Prospit. Yeah, WV, PM & the still alive Derse agents are the top bill around, and if PM can trump Jack again (the three of him, Spades Slick & Union Jack included), then the remaining Derse agents would follow.

That marks the end of Meat, page 4 for us!

#homestuck #homestuck epilogues #homestuck meat #upd8 #reaction #spoiler alert #john egbert #dave strider #grimbark jade #wv #the mayor #LOHAC #retjohn

[carnifcrous]

could you give me a rundown on what being gender critical is? i get the basics i think but if you don’t mind explaining your views?

oh boy anon i’ll sure try!! idk if im the best person to talk about it tbh and ive confused a lot of people trying to explain my views before ahfjkfh but ill try REALLY hard to keep my adhd ass in check lmfao. if theres anything i said thats confusing & you need cleared up feel free to @ me againi dont know how long gender critical has existed as a concept, but i wouldnt be surprised if it was developed as a reaction to a certain VERY vocal part of the trans movement/trans rights activists

(so when you talk to people (trans ppl) about gender i think people usually break it down into several a few categories: gender identity, gender roles, and gender expression. i think most trans people are aware of & separate their sex from their gender identity, the identity being something innately part of every person, the roles generally speaking the bullshit that society expects & should be rejected, and gender expression really just being the traditional “feminine” or “masculine” behaviors/dress you use regardless of your innate identity.in trans circles/lgbt (merch, lol) sites i’ve seen the phrase passed around “gender is a social construct.” i think trans people who do/used to say that meant it kind of like that since gender was created by societies so it doesn’t matter how you identify/why not expand the understanding of gender (ergo, non-binary genders getting popularized). i think this fell out of popularity because it was transppls attempt to validate ourselves and conservatives cant wrap their mind around social constructs are/the distinction between sex and gender and so it wasnt really working out lmfaobut now there’s been some scientific studies getting popularized that have Suggested the existences of male & female brains and that trans ppl have the brain of their identified gender, therefore the disconnect between their brain and their body manifests as gender dysphoria. (i think the transmed community has especially taken to this idea esp because of kalvin garrah discovering these studies & now kind of preaching them as facts & science. with this comes him, his friends, and all the transmed ppl who stan him ryan and london saying that Gender Isnt Socially Constructed)then theres the posts circling around here saying Transwomen Are Women/Real Women + when the women’s march happened in america after trump got elected, i saw quite a few things on facebook where ppl were saying that all the talk of vaginas and shit were transphobic and trans-exclusionary and they should keep in mind that not all women have vaginas, etc etcthen u have what i believe (or at least hope) are outliers in the trans community being dug up (usually transwomen) who say........ The Most ridiculous shit imo. like saying theyre more of a woman than ciswomen (i’ll use cis strictly to mean not-trans in the context of this post), transwomen claiming theyre having a period, and just in general perpetuating “cotton ceiling” stuff like lesbians just needing to get over their transphobia to be with a pre-op transwoman. (again i would like to reiterate i DO NOT believe this is what the majority of transpeople believe, its just a vocal minority thats gotten attention from receipt blogs IMO.))**sorry that this post is already becoming an essay and if its derailing from the question, but this is what i think gender critical stuff is meant to react toso kind of in opposition to mainstream ideas of what gender is, i think radfems/gender critical people dont really break down gender into the different things like identity, roles and expression. from my understanding, gender was socially constructed based on sex stereotypes. i think we can all agree that stereotypes are Bad, so why should we identify with some set stereotypes?

the gender critical beliefs is that there’s not right or wrong way to be male or female (male and female in this post meaning to strictly refer to biological sex). gender is holding us back by continuing to subscribe to sex stereotypes and is counterproductive to building a society where people are free to express themselves however they like. (a lot of gender critical ppl equate gender identity with personality, and while i think this can sometimes be the case w nondysphoric people & mogai genders, it isn’t always and usually isnt, because as i mentioned before, a lot of ppl know enough to say that gender expression is something independent of gender identity.)as for my personal take on it & how it plays a part of my life (apologies that this is going to get super anecdotal):this all is related to my own transition. since questioning being trans, i fluctuated between different non-binary identities. i didnt think i was Trans Enough to call myself a transmale because i didnt want to kill myself over not having a penis (or even trans enough to call myself trans at all lol), so i thought i needed to stay as being nb. then i realized they/them pronouns did...... nothing for me. the whole time i had she/they/he or they/he in a profile i was always secretly hoping someone would just call me he lol.

but i felt like i was an insult to REAL transmen. it took me a while to realize that i didnt care too much about the specifics, i just needed to do what made me happy. that happiness was being read as male & using he/him pronouns.

but even then id still struggle. id have moments of thinking that i was just copying my best friend (who had a similar nb -> binary transmale path as me), or that i didnt even feel like a boy, that i was STILL faking being trans, that i should feel more of x y & z, that id made a mistake with starting testosterone, etc. reading radfem/gender critical stuff used to trigger the fuck out of me lmfao.i think what i eventually realized for myself and the sentiment other gender critical transppl share is that i was setting up an expectation/standard for myself that was impossible to attain. with mainstream gender theory, a cisman and i share our gender identity, our gender is the same (”cis” as its used to “identifying with your biological sex”). the thing is though, in terms of sex/gender, theres nothing i find that i have comparable to a male. i dont act like a “man” because im not one, im a TRANSman. ive lived most of my life so far as female and being socialized that way has been significant to me. i relate a lot to women and its always felt wrong to me how suddenly because im transitioning it felt to me like i was expected to revoke my right to speak on feminism/womens experiences. way before i discovered gender critical things i was pissed off at people trying to be “allies” to transpeople saying shit like “all men are trash transmen are real men so theyre trash too uwu!” like. fuck that. and fuck you for insinuating i would EVER treat a woman the way that men do.

like i know there are transmen (and just transppl in general, for that matter), who try to overcompensate with misogyny/misogynistic ideas because they think itll help them pass better but fuck

anyway. im proud of being a natal female and being socialized that way. being trans isnt exactly a party but im glad i could get the insight i have into the treatment of women and so forth. and the thing is, this isnt a contradiction to me being trans at all. once i let go of whether or not i was “male enough” of “valid” as a boy, i could once again just focus on the very concrete evidence in my life: i was EXTREMELY dysphoric about my chest. i’ve been on hrt for almost two years now and ive had top surgery. my dysphoria is almost non-existent since ive had surgery. i dont mind & even get excited about all the changes coming from being on testosterone. (dont like that i cant sing like i used to and that i’ll probably end up balding at least by my 50s if my dads head is any indication, but cismen have this problem too so whatever)

also ive never felt quite right when i was calling myself gay (exclusively attracted to men). i share some issues that gay men might, i Can be affected by homophobia because i Do pass as male, but its still not 100% the same experience and i think that distinction is importantmy concerns & how being gender critical is important to me:

me coming out as trans was a process over time. using the usual trans rhetoric, i was having difficulties explaining myself to people. specifically im thinking about my mom. when i said i was uncomfortable with being seen as a girl, she said she was uncomfortable too. she liked dressing more like a boy. some other shit she said too that i dont remember, but my basic takeaway: cispeople, particularly ciswomen, arent necessarily enthusiastically identifying with their correlated gender to their sex, because..... no reasonable person likes gender roles.

and i get worried about people like my mom who might be encouraged to identify as nonbinary just because theyre gender non-conforming. the identity itself wouldnt be much of a problem except that it seems to me like its being pretty normalized for nonbinary people to just kind of....... experiment with medical transitioning to try to achieve some Ideal androgynous form that would be.... Very difficult to achieve. i worry about people not thinking medical transitioning is a big deal and just kind of.... disregarding all the potential health consequences, how powerful testosterone is as a hormone, and so on. with the permanent changes that come people THEN end up experiencing dysphoria and life is.... really pretty difficult for detransitioned women from what i can tell, and a lot of people talk about how theres been a spike of people detransitioning lately.

i think part of the problem is 1. transmed/truscum people harassing & bullying nondysphoric trans-identified people, so they feel the need to medically transition to Prove Themselves and 2. just in general the aforementioned idea that everyone has a gender identity. i think itd be very uncommon for people to “identify” as cis, and so you get this whole mess of people thinking they need an androgynous body to match their androgynous identity......... etc.

bonus: my mom crying on her birthday because she said she didnt think shed be able to ever see me as a guy. “nonbinary, maybe, but you dont act like a boy.” problem solved, i dont act like a guy, i act like a transguy!!

also again, need to reiterate that i cant relate to men. i can never Become Male, not with our current technology. i was not socialized as male and thats okay!! its okay because im just doing what i need to in order to be comfortable with my body and myself. i dont need to worry about my dating pool seeing me as a Real Man because they can see me fully as the transman i am and my relationship with being a natal woman and just, shit like that. ive gotten a lot more comfortable with even being called she when it does happen (by accident by family members). its not a swear word to me and ive let go of a lot of expectations i thought i had to meet with being uncomfortable talking about my female organs and my past as living as a woman etc etc. im not trying to Be anything anymore. im just trying to live as myself

some of my issues with the gender critical community just as a disclaimer:

i have a lot honestly and im not going to be able to name them all off the top of my head

makes sense that it would be, but i think the community is rampant with transphobia in the sense of flattening transpeople to the “transcult” stereotype where they just..... dont seem to think of us as individuals. they think we’re all genderists getting triggered by misgendering & demanding our pronouns. they think all of us are “delusional” about our natal sex. they think we’re all gender conforming. they dont take dysphoria seriously in general, ESPECIALLY males experiencing dysphoria (i get that your feminism doesnt have to be concerned with “men” but come on). misgendering is just disrespectful to me (idgaf about rapists, whatever use whatever pronouns you feel the need for those people.)

just in general some people dont get that trans people can still exist in a post-gender world? and you can still be critical of gender while respecting people’s pronouns? by their very nature i think the transmed, radfem, and especially gender critical communities are attractive to bullies so you have those flocking to it, and thats an issue but... yeah.

this answer has gone on long enough and im really sorry anon im sure you didnt sign up to read a 13 page essay. i just got lost in my thoughts and felt like i had a lot of explaining to do. i think my feelings are both simple and complicated so idk if i even really answered your questions, i hope i did..., ;;

#sorry in advance guys i literally never proofread #and i had family come over in the middle of me typing this so i lost my train of thought midway #i dont know where to put this but some last thoughts #the transpeople who insist they have nothing to do with their natal sex make us look like a fucking joke #like thats so easily exploitable by transphobic conservatives #and im tired of them having that leverage because theyre fucking idiots and dont deserve any sort of intellectual upperhand #gender theory has a lot of holes in it i think and its way too easy to poke at right now #also i think even more important than transmen its important for transwomen to acknowledge they arent the same as ciswomen #i know dysphorias a bitch i know it sucks i know it hurts #im trying not to let my privilege let me forget because i DO have a lot of privilege #but when we're talking about females as an oppressed social class #you dont neatly fit in & share that same experience #doesnt mean you dont have problems/face oppression! but its most likely because youre trans #not because of your identity #also my take on gender critical theory is that it just..... fits for me #i had that whole section about why its important to me #but i also dont really care that much about ppl still subscribing to gender theory #like you do you boo i just think it can be harmful sometimes #anyway #long post #radfem #gender critical #discourse #pine speaks

[keith-against-sheith]

@educating-antis

can you send me receipts about that incident bc this is literally the first time i’m hearing about it. this post is the first time anyone has personally come to me (this side) to boost anything, you know, rather than use extreme cases to fearmonger and derail actual discussions (like..how i said..in the op..that we just get radio silence except when you shaladins come here to tell us we’re bullies). I dont check up on shaladin accounts (and most antis dont bc we tend to want to avoid you guys).

“Most shaladins actively campaign against hate that’s what their accounts exist to do” same for antis yet many of the asks/submissions/responses we get are hate! next

“How many posts exist that say along the lines of ‘antis should die?’ A very small amount” I’m just wondering how much content antis receive do you actually see bc this seems to be a very one-sided view lol. do you want like an exhaustive list of how much hate/harassment antis get cuz you’d be waiting a while lol. it’s not just posts but asks, submissions, dms, and I don’t get how you can say we DON’T receive the hate we do when you’re not an anti.

also WHO are the fandom moms you are talking about? bc the only ones ive seen are shaladins/non-antis. could you link to evidence of predatory ppl pls? so i can actually do something? instead of just talking on my post about how bad and awful we are? this is literally the most useless response ive ever gotten.

“You were attacking her, harassing her.” the minor who had an issue with bex wasn’t attacking her. people were rightfully upset that she joked about a pedophilic ship—a ship that she said herself she doesn’t support in canon because it would be an inappropriate relationship and “shiro is not a sexual predator” and is not in a relationship with any of them. that’s in her words btw. AND she encouraged a sexual homophobic comment about a minor as well. people had a right to be angry with her, and with her platform/celebrity status she should’ve known not to react the way she did. she doesn’t deserve to get called a pedophile and other antis as well as myself have made posts about that for our own community. but what she did was not okay, and even she knew that when she tried to apologize. but still because of her that minor was sent death threats and harassed off of tumblr by who? shaladins. bex was NOT abused jfc for people who love to say we don’t know pedophilia is this is a laughable response.

and now “I have never seen a pedophile shaladin” ??? your entire community is built off of “it’s just fiction” and “don’t like don’t read” content/content-creator shielding rhetoric. guess who that protects? lol here are some examples: x / x / x

plus EVERY shaladin who interacts w sexual content of the underaged characters (ESP where they look really young/younger compared to shiro, don’t ignore that), EVERY shaladin who makes the “age of consent is 15 in X country” argument, “fictional child porn is just fictional” argument, “my parents got together when one was 15 and the other was 20″ argument, “as long as they’re post-pubescent it’s fine” argument—that is ALL predatory rhetoric/behavior. you’re telling us we’re watering down the definition of pedophilia when countless shaladins like to say anyone who hits puberty is suddenly eligible so it’s fine if a teenager dates someone in their twenties??? nasty. you guys refuse to examine the danger in age gap relationships if one or more person involved is in their teens so don’t tell us we don’t care about minors or survivors.

“You actively ignore when someone brings to light a real life case of pedophilia.” where??????? link me please??? or hey remember when i mentioned above when a shaladin called a CSA defense firm (a firm that defends pedophiles for a living) to confirm that child erotica is not in fact illegal #DiscourseEnded :)

this is literally hilarious that you’re telling ME that antis put fictional arguments over real people. that second to last paragraph is just a bunch of bullshit. your whole community is a cesspool that aids pedophiles and abusers and makes it easier for them to feel safe grooming kids because fandom has been brainwashing everyone with this ridiculous mantra of There’s Nothing Wrong With This Abusive Relationship If It’s Fictional. where criticism of fictional content/fandom behavior is suddenly harassment and the Good Old Days of fandom were when everyone could do whatever the fuck they want (i.e be racist/homophobic/consume pedophilic content/ship incest/etc etc etc). do you not see how dangerous that is? nowhere am i saying the anti community is perfect but shaladins fit perfectly in this whole “fandom is not your safe space/it’s just fiction” shithole where people like lohkay and todokaras and jakeira thrive and call kids stupid for being uncomfortable with pedophilic/abusive/etc content.

“Stop pretending you’re doing what you do for the greater good because it’s been shown time and time again when that was put to the test that all you actively care about is your ships and your petty arguments regarding other people’s” literally shaladins are the ones who pull all this shit out of their asses for the sake of a fictional ship. how’d you get that backwards lol. come back after you acknowledge the predatory arguments your side uses.

and yeah im 21, I’ve had more time to unlearn the gross hive mindset of Dont Like Dont Read that fandom is currently trying to break out of. Me being against glorified pedophilia/abuse/incest/etc. isn’t the problem here and I hope you can realize that.

#long post #anti shaladin