#trop negativity

[symphonyofsilence]

So, now, according to TROP, Finrod, in Valinor calls Galadriel 'Galadriel', which is a name given to her by her husband after she goes to Middle-earth and sees him there. the aforementioned husband has not been mentioned in the show so far. instead, Galadriel flirts with an original character and to a lesser extent, with her future son-in-law who is generations younger than her and is apparently her bestie now. (But they don't even mention that Galadriel is Gil-Galad's aunt cuz God forbid she actually has some of the caliber that she canonically had. Nobody listens to her, nobody looks up to her, nobody even calls her "lady".) She doesn't even inform her husband and says goodbye to him when she decides to go to Valinor. She doesn't go to see him when she apparently comes back from years of expedition.

(And Galadriel and Halbrand accidentally hold hands in their sleep in the concept art so make of that what you will.)

Also, Galadriel is the Sindrin form of "Alarariel". The Noldor of Valinor, including Finrod, didn't know Sindarin, a language spoken by the elves of Middle-earth.

Then how should have they shown that this child is Galadriel you might ask? Well, they didn't have any problem showing her with the same shift she was wearing in her childhood flashback when she was grown up! But actually, I say, change that whole scene! The point of the scene was probably Finrod's dialogue about the buoyancy of the stone and holly shit! Was that bad! The dialogues are so trying to be philosophical and epic and end up so cringe!

And apparently, Finrod had sworn to find Sauron?? And Sauron found him first?? And killed him?? After the first age??

And look, there is "breaking lore" and then there is "eliminating the whole Akallabeth" which the show is about.

Finrod dies saving Beren. If Finrod wasn't with Beren in the quest for Silmarils, Beren would have died. (Since Beren managed to get that close to Sauron because of Finrod's shapeshifting arts, he might have died sooner.)

And had Beren died, there would have been no Dior. No Dior, no Elwing. No Elwing, no Elrond and Elros.

Elrond is now in the series, and Elros is the first king of Nomenor, which is the subject of a large part of the series.

And it may seem that this will just eliminate the first king of Numenor. But no. There will be no Numenor at all.

Had Beren died, the Silmaril would not have been taken from Melkor's crown and gone to Doriath. The sons of Fëanor wouldn't attack Doriath. Elwing, who would not exist in this scenario, even if she did, wouldn't have gone to Sirion and would not meet Eärendil, and once again, Elrond and Elros wouldn't exist. But more importantly, the sons of Fëanor wouldn't attack Sirion, and therefore Elving wouldn't throw herself into the sea with the Silmaril, so Earendil wouldn't know that his land was gone and that his children had probably died, and reached his last straw and gone to Valinor to ask for help, and because the Silmaril wasn't with him he wouldn't have managed to reach Valinor.

So Eärendil wouldn't have reached Valinor to ask for help, the War of Wrath wouldn't have happened, Beleriand would still be in Melkor's grasp, and the men wouldn't have helped the Valar during the War of Wrath so the Valar wouldn't create Numenor as a reward for them.

Therefore, a huge part of the series should not exist.

But no, apparently the showrunners thought it was more important to change Finrod's death to motivate Galadriel's absurd plotline, in which the wisest of the Eldar throws herself into the ocean and sidestrokes her way from Valinor to Middle-earth. (Valinor that Galadriel was not allowed to go to in the first place... so the whole point of the scene where Galadriel passes her test by rejecting the ring and succeeds in going to Valinor is lost. After removing the story of Galadriel's ambition and that she had come to Middle-earth to rule a land of her own and spent the Second Age looking for that land, and replacing it with this pointless plotline, removing both Galadriel's arc and the weight of the scene that she rejects the power of the ring.)

Also, apparently, Finrod took the oath of Fëanor. Yes, technically, that wasn't the oath of Fëanor. That causes its own problems but I understand that they didn't have the rights to some things but then THEY SHOULD HAVE LEFT IT ALONE! But a bunch of elves holding their swords out while the narrator is talking about how the Noldor swore to defeat the enemy and went to Middle-earth is alluding to the oath! They knew what they were doing when they added it!

And they could have just added a bunch of elves crossing ice with Galadriel, Finrod, and a dark-haired man in blue leading them?! Show the Noldor coming to Middle-earth, strong Galadriel being a leader, Finrod coming to Middle-earth, and a little cameo of Fingolfin without basically showing Fingolfin if they hadn't had the rights (just like how they showed little ginger children in Valinor probably with Amrod and Amras in mind) and stay true to the lore!

Also, with that hairstyle, show! Finrod looks like a popular but bullying captain of a high school's basketball team who would bully book! Finrod for being a theater nerd.

Oh, and, Celebrimbor apparently doesn't have any relationship with the dwarves before Elrond's arrival.

And Elrond, the heir to the Sindarin throne via Thingol, Noldrin (Gil-Galad's heir) via Turgon, and all the houses of the Edain is not an "elf lord" enough!

And yes! That was important! Cuz Elrond, the heir to any thone that there is, CHOSE instead become a healer, minstrel, linguist, loremaster and basically hotel manager. (I like what Robert Aramayo did with the role though. Elrond, Durin, and Disa were the only characters I liked.)

They keep needlessly going against canon! Not having the rights to this book and that book is not an excuse to willfully go against anything the books say!

And you might say that these go against the books, but are not bad writing.

Well, there is bad writing, too.

Show! Galadriel is SUCH a one-dimensional, unlikable, unrelatable character. All she was during the whole thing was angry and in posession of a dagger. With a single purpose and one thing to do. Making bad decisions while pretending to be wise. And the acting doesn't help it at all.

And jumping from the edge of a sword?! Listen, either your world has rules different from ours, or it's the same and you can't break physical rules in such a world! When you establish swords and people's wrists in your world as something that can be deflected with other swords, you can't say that they can endure (the weight of a person+ their armor)×(the acceleration of that person+ g) AND navigate a distance (r×teta) while enduring this weight to give that person an acceleration!

And you can't make people care about your characters and thus their plotlines with 5 minutes at most for each of them in every episode! There's not enough time for anyone to get invested. They don't have any filler scenes to show their characters and their relationship and make us care about them.

And that going to Valinor scene?!

We KNOW Galadriel wouldn't go to Valinor. So if you're choosing that bold plotline (going against the canon and logic along the way) the focus shouldn't be on whether or not she would go, but HOW she wouldn't go! I guess it was supposed to have the emotional weight of someone rejecting heaven for a cause or a person or something but it didn't work. Cuz we didn't know this show's Galadriel. We didn't know much about her adventures in Middle-earth and her relationship to the land, how she fought for it, who she had there (like...you'd think adding Celeborn and Celebrian would have helped), and her cause, keeping Finrod's oath did not work cause FINROD DIDN'T HAVE SUCH AN OATH!

And there is a LOT OF telling and not showing.

So yeah, to answer the showrunners question "can we make the novel that Tolkien never wrote?", yes, you can. You just did. Tolkien never wrote any of these. And would never.

#tolkien #silmarillion #lotr #the rings of power #trop #rop #lotr on prime #I pirated it #amazon lotr #galadriel #finrod #celebrimbor #elrond #my two cents #anti rings of power #trop negativity

[thethirdromana]

Those of you who are fans of LOTR and not fans of Rings of Power might enjoy this article on the flaws in the latter's world-building.

The blog post is by the historian Bret Devereaux, whose specialism is the history of ancient Rome.

@sindar-princeling I suspect you might enjoy this.

#lotr #trop negativity #bonus points to Dr Devereaux for mentioning the very offensive Oirish Harfoots

[saurons-pr-department]

So who's had the biggest character/role assassination:

1) Simultaneously Girlbossified yet oddly stripped of her title that would actually make her a boss and maneuvered by every man ever Galadriel

2) Soggy plain toast Sauron

3) Why have we had an entire season of a show named after my greatest works that's almost completely devoid of my presence Chancellor Palpatine Celebrimbor

4) I can decide when people are unexiled from Valinor if one of them is sufficiently bothersome Gil-Galad

Honourable mention:

5) Celeborn Teleporno who appears to have been just plain assassinated (he may come back, I get it. It's for the bit)

#trop negativity #okay i will finish out the season #then block this shit and not watch it again #he's going to be in the tags forever though isn't he?? #will i never be free? #trop spoilers

[soul-spices]

watch me age 10 years after reading the short interview with ROP’s script writers

they are so lovingly applied, they aren’t even visible. Amazing.

having to take the passive aggressiveness of a 40+ year old white man-child in a Tolkien adaptation is something I never thought I would experience, but here we are, Mister Payne.

also, can you maybe stop using the “Well Tolkien never mentioned x thing” argument? You can use this as a template excuse to justify basically anything. Which is probably why you’re overusing it in the first place.

 the hairstyles changing over time seem to apply solely to male elf characters, who now sport short, gelled up hair, mullets, fades and buzzcuts; and not the female elf characters, who still have long hair. How very gender normative of you! Truly, the public applauds you for your backwards views in this very contemporary adaptation.

amazing Mister McKay. I’m left in awe at your lore knowledge, yet I cannot help but notice you didn’t gave Galadriel her iconic braided crown hairstyle; the hairstyle that TOLKIEN DESCRIBED HER WEARING during the first age. You show that you know the lore, yet you seem to have put little of your knowledge into the show itself. This is truly and quite an amazing feat. Bravo.

i forgot who created this month old meme, to credit them, but it seems to be still valid to the discussion:

firstly, the fault is not that Galadriel is portrayed as a warrior. The issue is how piss-poor you’ve written her as one ( among other things I won’t go into here). You’ve basically written her as the most generic and unlikable manchild-warrior-protag ™

secondly, Nerwen is not a “nickname”, it is the name given by her mother because Galadriel was the tallest female elf among her peers ( and in all ME history, if we’re going meta), and because she was athletic, and liked partaking in sparring with other elves. She wasn’t called Nerwen because she was manifesting the manchild-warrior-protag ™  vibes you cursed her with. Maybe Mister Payne is projecting his own inner man-child into the character he’s likely writing for the script.

thirdly, since we are playing ‘taking the names as literal as physically possible’ game, did you know that her birth name, Artanis, means “noble woman” in elvish? Funny how we don’t see any of the diplomacy of a noble person in her character during your show. Interesting how you wrote her character to be brash and muscle headed :) with the social skills of a petulant child.

no. no, I don’t think I have anymore patience for this.

Source: The Hollywood Reporter Interview

#anti rop #anti rings of power #anti amazon #rings of power negativity #rings of power criticism #rop criticism #rop negativity #anti trop #trop negativity #trop critical #i feel ancient and tired

[sindar-princeling]

actually! i have another question! i know you’ve said that ROP’s holistic reception was rather… :/ but how was the show’s true quality? was there any memorable/fitting music? was it plot accurate? was the film quality high? and a bonus, do you have a favorite scene?

not to offload all this on you at once, but i just want to know your opinion of its quality uwu

hi again! ❤️

I just wanna begin by saying I'm no expert on film- and tv-making, so I don't think I'll have much professional input, but. here we go!

(this is gonna be a spoilery review, just a warning)

overall, the quality was pretty uneven, I'd say. the show was advertised as the most expensive series ever made, and... I personally couldn't see that. especially regarding costumes and cgi, i feel like there was a lot of room to improve. some views and wide shots of locations were pretty nice (lindon, eregion, also khazad dum was just beautiful in some shots), but the scene where they were sailing to valinor looked really bad to me, especially those cgi seagulls.

the acting was a mixed bag. there are characters whose acting i really enjoyed (miriel in the second half of the series, elrond, arondir had his moments, adar was GREAT, elendil was pretty cool, durin was good even when the script wasn't), but it only made the rest look worse in comparison, i'm afraid.

I'd say the music was good. I'm not sure i'd call it memorable, because apart from the opening credits music i well. don't remember it, but that may just be my shitty memory jshkjfhjdk but I don't think there were any moments where music felt unfitting or jarring. it was fine.

about the writing... okay, that's a long one.

as for the plot - they didn't have many rights to tolkien's works, so their options were limited, plot-wise. even the intro with some information from the years of the trees and the first age was very general, and didn't even mention the kinslaying.

but while they had to invent a lot of plot, the characters were RIGHT THERE. all they had to do was do them justice, and in my opinion - they didn't. galadriel isn't wise or power hungry (in my opinion), and it's a shame. her arc is in most part just the writers screaming ISN'T IT IRONIC HOW SHE CAUSED THE THING SHE TRIED TO STOP, it lacks any subtlety.

(on this topic, why did sauron tempt her, and not celebrimbor? does it stink a bit of homophobia or...? it's like they were deadly afraid of even a hint of homoerotic subtext. like im sure that's what happened, but it still sucks)

it's a story about forging of the rings of power, and celebrimbor is barely there. i'm really baffled by some of the writing choices, because they clearly had the rights to the rings, celebrimbor and sauron, so why not tell the story that was written? there is enough material there to tell a compelling story, and in my opinion choosing to omit and overwrite it was a bad one. neither galadriel, nor the original plot benefitted from the writing choices, i think. they both ended up heavily flattened and less interesting than their original versions.

galadriel especially had many of her ambitions and stuggles taken away from her - by making her conflict with sauron central to the plot, the show takes away from the fact that galadriel's biggest stuggle has always been with herself - and in lotr, she wins when she resists the ring (NOT sauron - she resists her hunger for power and her huge ambition. it's about HER). it was one of the changes that made me the saddest, because they had a truly amazing, iconic female character right there, and they wasted her potential so painfully.

it WOULD feel wrong to say i wish they just hadn't chosen her as the main character, because we DO still need more female leads - many, many more. but i can't not be angry at the way they stripped her of her ambitions, best strengths and defining flaws.

there are also many changes to the lore, to which my reactions switched between "why add that?" (isildur's sister, the priestesses? witches? whoever they were), "why change that" (mithril lore (im still all "???" whenever i try to make sense of it)), and "oh my fucking GOD" (halbrand as sauron, mordor's on/off switch). especially the last one was... ridiculous. mordor is a country that's seeped through with evil because of the dark forces inhabiting it for ages, and you're telling me they decided to make it so that it was created within a few minutes because a guy put a sword into a keyhole? fuck off

the whole sauron thing is a material for a separate post and this is already long enough, but I'll just say. i don't get why they had to make drama around sauron. everyone and their mother knows who sauron is, you can just use the impact that this character has instead of creating conflict with a weak plot justification. of course it was going to be hard to create a character from someone who in LOTR is more a symbol than a person - but in my opinion, they didn't make any right choices regarding him. and they didn't even tell the actor he was going to be playing sauron until they were shooting episode three, which is a trend that seriously needs to stop.

all in all, if you're looking for bits of story and lore that tolkien came up with, they are not there. solid 90% of the show - maybe more - is something new or changed

the costumes are... meh, mostly. there is one thing in particular that makes my blood boil, and it's Numenorean armor, best visible on Miriel. take a look at her sleeves:

(id in alt text)

it's fucking. fabric with the scales pattern printed on it??? which is either a pretty bad costume idea/design, or THE cheapest, laziest, almost insulting execution I've ever seen.

also, many costumes are only like two layers of clothes, they usually have few details like jewellery and such, so they often look simply unfinished. especially elven costumes are underwhelming. I think as far as i remember, the dwarves' costumes looked best. I'd recommend watching LanaMarie's videos on youtube, I've stumbled upon them while looking for video essays on rop and it's clear she knows what she's talking about when it comes to costuming.

(also, I stand by what i said when the first promo pics came out - why would you get rid of long-haired male elves? I hate that they did that. are they THAT afraid of breaking gender norms?)

last but not least - i was seriously not impressed by the actors' accents choices. you got English elves, irish harfoots, scottish dwarves, cockney (? i'm not sure) orcs... it was a mess of really ugly stereotypes.

(EDIT: I worded this poorly - it sounds like I mean to say it's the actors' fault, but that's not what I meant. I wanted to say that the actors playing certain races seemed to have been assigned certain accents by the creators and along with some script choices it created a few ugly situations that felt very stereotypical and harmful towards real life people who speak with those accents)

HOWEVER, despite all that i'm gonna end on a more positive note and refer to your last question, my favourite scene. this spot is easily taken by the scene where disa and some other dwarves sing to the mountain to let go of trapped miners. it had amazing impact, to me it was a beautiful piece of lore, and it showed the love and respect and trust the dwarves have for the mountains. it was so short and simple yet so amazingly effective in conveying everything it had to convey. also disa's singing gave me goosbumps, the actress has an amazing voice.

okay, i think that's all i wanted to say (wow, that's. a lot). thank you a lot for asking, I hope that tells you what you wanted to learn! and i really enjoyed this opportunity to talk some more about my thoughts :)

#you managed to ask this on the day when i have some free time in the evening so i was excited about replying to this in detail all day #no questions except on party business #fou-and-foue #rings of power #trop negativity

[caffeinosis]

Why would you, in a series called The Rings of Power, gloss over the creation of the Rings like that? It should have been the main arc.

#trop negativity

[tinwes]

my sister made me watch first trop episode with her, and i am baffled that writers had decided at some point that a) galadriel's arc should revolve around needless revenge for a man who is happy in valinor; and b) that finrod's legacy should be about vengeance.

because finrod's legacy is gil-estel in the sky. finrod's legacy are the alliances between elves and men. finrod's legacy is about being a teacher, an explorer, and a friend to all living things. finrod's legacy is immortals laying down their lives for their mortal friends.

(and if you think that he would be happy with all the killing in his name, think again.)

#trop negativity #anti trop #finrod #galadriel

[vorbarrsultana]

why, why twitter of time collectively likes r*p, you all have better taste than that

[lindirs-gaze]

ghosting someone on bumble because they thought rings of power was good

#trop negativity #immediate ick and yes I’m being judgmental #more like WRONGS of power 🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪

[sleepy-violette]

So I finally watched the first episode of the not-really-lotr show, and while I recognize that they nailed the introduction of their OCs (Nori is a bit cliché but her first scenes got great characterization, Arondir actually looks and act like an elf, also I'm rooting for this guy), I'm fighting hard to turn a blind eye to the absolute mess that is the writing holy shit

#trop #tagging it just to be sure even though I SWEAR I'm watching it in good faith! #trop negativity #but yeah it's dragging hard #i have trouble seeing the red thread that binds it all and makes it into a coherent story #and not a collection of scenes #production design is pretty #but dear god the costumes #also this has nothing to do with the book #ill have to ignore every adaptation choice if i want to survive #(they should have made an original show)

[emerald-valkyrie]

Every time I see Galadriel from The Rings of Power I cry a little bit because she just has SO MUCH makeup on, whether it’s on her eyes or her cheeks, she’s just got so much noticeable makeup on. Compared to the Galadriel we see in Lord of the Rings where Kate has such minimal, barely noticeable makeup… ugh, I just cry.

#this is so minor but it irks me all the same #galadriel #trop negativity #the rings of power #the lord of the rings #text

[saurons-pr-department]

Condolences to the Sauron fandom

Literally nothing can heal the wound created by the knowledge that this fucker will forever be in the Sauron tags T_T

#trop negativity #queen-zimraphel #answered asks #trop spoilers

[nimium-amatrix-ingenii-sui]

So whose adar is Adar, exactly?

#still not watching trop #just asking stupid questions #is it brimby's daddy #is it brimby's dad's daddy #is it gil-galad's daddy #who knows #trop negativity #trop spoilers #maybe? idk? #the sauron show #who's your daddy? #i think we can rule out eru #or can we

[incomingalbatross]

The irony of making Galadriel a warrior is that she could've been the perfect counter to the current idea of a "Strong Female Character" who needs to be a warrior to be seen as strong.

Because Galadriel is a strong female. She's wise, she's noble. She's not a warrior, but she doesn't need to be. In fact she's seen firsthand that being a warrior is not the same as being a good leader or person, particularly with Feanor who could've been the greatest elf who ever lived if not for his pride and aggression.

Galadriel could have been the perfect vehicle for showing that one does not need to be a warrior to be strong, and that prowess in war is not the same as virtue. Something very in line with Tolkien's themes.

She could have been! As you point out, she is an extremely strong, wise, and respected figure in her universe and none of that, particularly in LotR, hinges on combat. I'm far from an expert on the First Age, but my impression of Galadriel's role there is that she went along with the Noldor out of desire to explore and/or gain a kingdom of some sort... and then proceeded to meet Celeborn, settle down in Doriath, and keep a very reasonable distance from all the Noldorin bloodshed and tragedy. Being a warrior is not part of her story, or at least not a significant part, and she's one of the most powerful figures of Middle-Earth without it.

But it seems like mainstream storytelling still wants to pat itself on the back for having Strong Warrior Female Characters, so I guess we can't expect them to think maybe there are other options.

(Though you'd think Eowyn's arc would at least suggest the idea.)

#asks #anon ask #trop negativity

[caffeinosis]

Ι don't mind "young" Galadriel being a warrior but I do mind her being the oldest being in Middle Earth yet acting like a bratty teenager and being a princess of the Noldor, the grandaughter, daughter and niece of high kings but apparently having to be schooled by fucking HALBRAND on how to behave in a royal court.

#trop negativity #I understand that they need to convincingly show her as younger than 3rd age galadriel but this is not the way

[deadqueernoldor]

Ma'am NOT running from whats essentially a pyroclastic flow is not really how... you survive.

#i usually dont care abt this thing but my friend was so happy about that scene and showed me and yeah #its dramatoc cinema wise but like. girlie got essentially killed off #trop negativity