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thegeminisage · 3 years

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birthday meta for the birthday boy <3

[this version of the meta is behind a cut. if you’d prefer the no-cut version, it’s here.]

a fun little fanon from Ye Olde Days of spn (when seasons 1-5 were airing) was that sam always had the absolute worst birthdays. a big part of this is because sam’s birthday is in may. supernatural tends to align itself with “real time,” meaning that they like to use either the date the episode was filmed or the date it aired as the in-universe date, even when two canon dates conflict each other. (they’re so intent on doing this that they pretended the gap years between s5 & s6 and s7 & s8 right out of existence - season openers also usually tend to pick up right after season finales in-universe but still somehow be set several months later.) that means sam’s birthday tends to line up with the airdates on either season finales or episodes right before the finales, which means that every time sam gets a year old, shit hits the fan.

here’s a list of things that did happen or could have happened on some of sam's birthdays:

0-22: we don’t have much in the way as far as concrete dates go for preseries stuff, but it’s perfectly possible sam walked out all that bullshit the day he turned 18, even if i prefer to think he left at age 19 as that aligns rather tragically with some adam-related canon.

23: we don’t have any dates for the end of s1/opening of s2 either, but it’s likely that sam’s birthday took place between 1.20 (dead man’s blood) and 2.01 (in my time of dying). he could have been doing anything from hunting vampires to saving one of YED’s special children to almost shooting his possessed father to getting hit by a semi to using a ouija board to talk to his not-quite-dead brother.

24: here’s where the real fun starts >:) sam died in cold oak in 2.21 (all breaks loose pt 1) and in the episode he says he’s 23. but according to the lore (extra-canonical material), dean made the deal to bring him back on his 24th birthday...

25: ...which means that on his 25th birthday, he was forced to watch dean get dragged to hell...

25b: ...except that sam had TWO 25th birthdays, because mystery spot took place in february, and sam lived in an alternate timeline where dean stayed dead for 6 months, putting him well past may 2nd. which meant that the first time he turned 25, he was actually getting tortured by gabriel. while his brother was getting tortured (or torturing someone else) in hell.

26: 4.20 (the rapture) took place in very late april/very early may (the wiki says may 3, but that’s just a guess), and 4.21 (when the levee breaks) picks up immediately where it left off. so it’s not only plausible but EXTREMELY LIKELY that sam was locked up in the panic room suffering withdrawals when he turned 26, dude

26b: ...except that in 11.17 (safe house), bobby and rufus’s half of the episode presumably takes place at the same time during season 4, and he mentions sam and dean are in reno?? so you know they could have been doing that instead.

27: we have no hard and fast dates for the end of season 5, but it’s my personal headcanon that sam’s birthday took place during 5.22 (swan song), and he beat the devil and leapt into hell on the day he turned 27 - because at this point, why not. however, his birthday could also have taken place during either 5.20 (the devil you know) or 5.21 (two minutes to midnight), meaning he was reconfronting his old college pal who turned out to be a demon brady, or helping bobby and a human cas destroy the factory with the croatoan virus.

28: there’s a gap year between s5 and s6, so sam’s 28th birthday took place while he was soulless, hunting with the campbell family...

28b: ...except spn likes to say “a year passed” without adding one to the calendar, so sam ALSO had a 28th birthday during the airing of s6. there’s some conflicting information about s6′s timeline, so this could have happened anywhere from 6.18 (frontierland) to 6.21 (let it bleed). sam could have been doing anything from time traveling to fighting eve to grappling with cas going dark side to rescuing lisa and ben.

29: sam’s 29th birthday almost definitely took place during 7.20 (the girl with the dungeons and dragons tattoo), during which he met charlie. in case you’ve forgotten, that was actually a great day for him - in a moment of true little brother antics and justifiable homophobia, he got to laugh at dean gay flirting with the security guard.

30: there was another gap year between s7 and s8, which means that sam spent the big three-oh with amelia richardson while dean and cas were in purgatory. he got to have a picnic!

30b: ...but since spn ignores gap years, sam ALSO had a 30th birthday during s8 (a big season for him). there isn’t an exact date for the episodes leading up to the finale, which takes place in late may, after sam’s birthday, so his birthday could have taken place in either 8.21 (the great escapist), where he nearly died of his trial-induced fever and confessed to dean that he always felt unclean, or during 8.22 (clip show), where he met sarah blake again after nearly a decade, only to have her die right in front of him.

31: the s9 timeline is pretty vague, but the best guess for this one is 9.18 (meta fiction), in which sam finally gets to confront gadreel, the angel who possessed him and killed kevin with his hands

32: the s10 timeline is also short on dates, so sam’s birthday could have taken place anywhere between 10.16 (paint it black) and 10.21 (dark dynasty). a few possible things sam could have been doing: dealing with a hunt involving soulless people, helping cas and bobby break metatron out of heaven’s prison, catching up with charlie and giving rowena the book of the damned, battling the cursed werther house (don’t click that unless you’ve seen the episode, the twist is TOO good), reuniting claire with her mom, or building charlie’s pyre.

33: the last quarter or so of s11 happens really quickly sequentially, every episode picking up soon after the last one left off, which means that sam’s birthday either took place at the very end of the season or the beginning of s12. it’s most likely he turned 33 either the day dean saved the sun and sam himself got shot and kidnapped by toni bevell, or a few days later when he was being held captive and tortured in her basement.

34: unfortunately, sam’s 34th birthday almost definitely took place during 12.21 (there’s something about mary). i was really hoping it’d be 12.22 so he could be kicking the bmol’s asses, learning lucifer was back, and hugging mary, but no...instead he was mostly likely learning that ketch had had eileen killed.

35: because of some weird canon, the timeline for season 13 is actually batshit insane and makes no sense whatsoever, which means sam’s birthday is really early this season - either during 13.17 (the thing) where he rescues his brother from a frisky tentacle monster or 13.18 (bring ‘em back alive) where he hangs out with gabriel and cas in the bunker. since that’s garbage, you’d be forgiven for ignoring canon and pretending sam’s birthday fell on one of the following episodes - 13.19 (funeralia) is very touching, as he and rowena clash and then make up with each other; 13.21 (beat the devil) has sam capturing lucifer, then dying and getting revived and captured by him; 13.22 has sam getting a little revenge by leaving lucifer for dead; 13.23, of course, has lucifer finally dying for good.

36: there’s no dates whatsoever on the back half of s14, so theoretically sam’s birthday could take place in any episode after 14.13 (lebanon). the likeliest and COOLEST candidate is for sam to turn 36 during 14.20, in which he shoots god himself point blank. other admittedly inferior scenarios include his stint as justin the 50s househusband, mary’s death, or putting jack in the ma’lak box.

37: we saw this birthday happen onscreen during 15.14 (last holiday) at a party thrown by mrs. butters. unfortunately, not too long after that, she wound up torturing him by pulling out his fingernails.

38: that’s this year! because the timeline of s15 is also so weird and vague, partially fucked up by covid changing the shooting/airing times, and because sam’s birthday is SO early in s15, it’s possible that he has another one this season, right at the end, or maybe post-canon, which means............................................

...................................................that he’s spending it with dean and jack and the newly revived eileen and cas, in the bunker or somewhere else he feels safe and loved :)

happy birthday, sam winchester <3 after all the unhappy ones...u deserve it

[spn masterpost]

#sam winchester #supernatural #liz's meta #liz's spn stuff #long post #never in my life have i had to fight so hard to post a meta #tumblr tried to delete this TWO TIMES

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mittensmorgul · 6 years

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What’s your favorite episode for each season?

Aw, heck... this is a terrible question! Like asking what my favorite flavor of ice cream is. It changes, depending on the context, I guess. I mean, gut feeling, first reaction when put on the spot? Hrm...

1.12 Faith

2.13 Houses of the Holy (heck maybe 2.11 Nightshifter) (or 2.01 In My Time Of Dying, I mean that is my favorite song too so... heck) (or 2.09 Croatoan because Ominous Foreshadowing for like... everything for the next few seasons)

3.11 Mystery Spot (aw heck no It’s probably 3.12 Jus In Bello)

4.16 On The Head Of A Pin (or 4.20 The Rapture) (no maybe it’s 4.01 Lazarus Rising)

5.14 My Bloody Valentine (but really 5.16 Dark Side of the Moon) (or heck maybe 5.03 Free To Be You And Me) (no wait, can I change it again and say 5.08 Changing Channels?)

6.15 The French Mistake (yeah, no that’s a lie. really it’s 6.11 Appointment in Samarra, and don’t try to let me tell you otherwise) (no I’m sure it’s 6.09 Clap Your Hands If You Believe because it’s the only truly good soulless!Sam episode and Dean and fairies is the best fic fodder ever) (or maybe 6.18 because Cowboy Dean and the beginning of understanding just how big Cas’s betrayal has been...) (and since I still feel like I need to make this clear, with 100% honesty I am saying it’s NOT 6.20... that’s at least like... fourth on the list, because while Important™ and heartbreaking and how earth-shattering it is, I’d hardly describe the terrible feelings it gives me as making it a “favorite”... like I skipped over it during my first two or three rewatches because I COULD NOT and can only watch it now because I’ve memorized it to the point it’s lost its initial power to hurt me anymore)

7.14 Plucky Pennywhistle’s Magical Menagerie (nah it’s 7.17 of course because CAAAAASSSSS!) (or wait, probably 7.20 because CHARLIE!) (7.07 because too much real psychic stuff squeezed in through the cracks between all the fake psychic stuff) (oh heck, 7.21 because PLAYING SORRY and Kevin)

8.17 Goodbye Stranger murdered me (but 8.10...) (aw heck who can resist handmaiden Dean and Queen Charlie in 8.11?) (no wait 8.21 because that’s one long series of the most badass things Cas has ever done, like edlund knew cas was gonna fall and become human and was like-- oh okay I got one last shot to use these powers so i’m gonna just.. go nuts with it in a theoretical physics kinda way okay good good)

9.18 Metafiction (but 9.10 is sooooo goooood and 9.06 is divine)

10.14 The Executioner’s Song (no wait... am I actually considering a Bucklemming with 10.16 here? O_O) (or maybe 10.19 The Werther Project, or even 10.09 The Things We Left Behind) (heck there’s also 10.20 because ANGEL HEART)

all of them. just... well okay, most of them... (11.14 The Vessel) (or 11.11 Into The Mystic) (or oh gosh the “how to read gay subtext primer” of 11.19 The Chitters) (11.17 Red Meat, aka the episode 90% of everyone completely missed the point of) (11.21 for the Sad Dean Being Sad and everyone going to save Lucifer, because by lucifer they mean cas) (and duh, 11.23 because I’d called it more than a year earlier. Just all of it.)

12.12 Stuck In The Middle With You (no wait, 12.10 Lily Sunder Has Some Regrets) (no wait, can I change it back to 12.12?) (hrm... maybe it is 12.10) (maybe we should take both of these episodes and let them fight it out?)

13.06 Tombstone because COWBOY. HATS. (heck maybe 13.05 because OWWWWWW), (or 13.19 Funeralia... what a game changer...) (13.14 maybe...) (or duh, 13.16 because SCOOBY and the GIANT STUFFED DINOSAUR IN LOVE)

So you see, anon, it’s a really difficult question for me to answer. :P

I have different reasons for picking a lot of these. This is why I don’t even try to keep a “top 10″ list or anything like that.

#my life as a sad sad fangirl #Anonymous

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jewelleighanna · 7 years

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Another question. Sorry if I am bother I just enjoy your insights on these matters. I have seen posts breaking down how many of the Sky People are left and though its not a perfect figure it fits well enough. I'm trying to figure out how many children (under 17) there are because they were instantly saving them and a select essential personal in the last selection group. After that left 80 spots. How many of the 20 saved were kids? A more simple question but like I said I'm curious. Thanks!

Counting who we know were on the “essential personal” list:

  1. Abby2. Jackson3. Jaha4. Raven5. Kane6 and 7. Unnamed engineers (assuming that there are one or two other important engineers that bumped Monty off the original list).

  We also know that Bellamy and Clarke were promised spots on the list:

8. Bellamy9. Clarke

And of course, I’m assuming Octavia still has to count as a spot.

10. Octavia

Counting backwards from that list, with 20 total spots being held, we can infer that there were around 10 children, give or take one or two, from Arkadia. That is unrealistically low by any count.  Let’s count this a different way:There was a total of 464 Skaikru in the bunker (364 being culled and 100 being saved). If we were to divide those numbers equally between the ages of 1-75, that would means there ought to be 6.18 people each year or around 92 children under the age of 16.  

However, it’s unlikely that the count is divided equally with every age. There’s probably fewer people over the age of 60. Also, with the 1 child rule that means fewer people with each generation. Most likely, the highest count of people is between 35-55, half that between 15-35 and half that between 0-15.   Some rough estimates of Skaikru divided by age:

Over 55: 43 peopleBetween 35-55: 240 peopleBetween 15-35: 120 peopleUnder 15: 60 people  We know all of Farm Station’s children were murdered; however, that shouldn’t greatly make the total count of children lower because there can’t be more than 10 farm station people left. (Mt Weather blowing up and also Pike, Hannah, and three farm station died when they turned over Pike). For the sake of argument, I will give 10 spots to farm station adults and assume there are 10 fewer children in the total count.

That should still leave around 50 Skaikru children in the bunker.

We’ve been given NO reason to assume the count of children should be as low as 10. I mean, when they sent down the 6 stations from the Ark, they would have divided the children up evenly between each station. To put all the children together in factory station or something would be ludicrous because assuming they were the only station to survive, they would have no chance at all. And there hasn’t been any attacks in Arkadia that would have targeted children.

  So, again, that means there ought to have been around 50 Skaikru children left in the bunker.   Honestly, I think the writers either didn’t bother to count logically or just wanted our characters to save all the children (because that’s arguably the moral thing to do) without the Skaikru portion of the bunker becoming one big orphanage.

  Maybe we are to assume that most of the kids died of a mysterious illness during the three months between season 2-3. Best guess I have, because canon is telling us that there are around 10 kids left.

#the 100 #the bunker #Clarke Griffin #the 100 meta

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scribbles-by-kate · 7 years

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Thoughts on 6.18 “Where Bluebirds Fly”

It’s been a while since the show did anything substantial with Zelena, so I suppose they had to do something with her to bring her back into the fold and mend things with her sister. I pretty much guessed what would happen this episode. The press release hinted heavily at Zelena ending up without her magic by the end of the episode, and the sacrifice gives her some brownie points in terms of development, though I’m not sure where she goes from here in terms of contributing to story.

My Fan fiction My Once Upon a Time episode reviews, essays, and meta

Young Zelena was very sweet - she really was. Obviously people’s fear of her magic eventually made her believe magic was the only thing that was important - magic would never hurt her like people did. I can understand that.

Using your magic for good - means you’re not a monster. I like Stanum :) He and Zelena were obviously good friends. I think that maxim holds true for all the magic users - magic for good is fine, but magic for bad makes you a bad guy.

I guessed the Black Fairy was playing Zelena - I knew she wanted something from her. I had thought maybe she was going to kill her for Rumple, or offer to do so, but I knew Zelena was playing into her hands by going to the mines, and, of course, Zelena’s too stubborn to see it.

Why is Emma surprised at being happy? - I mean, if you’re really happy, you don’t question it. Emma seems to be questioning her happiness a lot, or is it really what’s making her happy? I don’t know: that was weird. It was kind of an uncomfortable scene.

Snow and wedding planning - of course she’s got a binder of ideas. I can’t believe she’s been planning since after the first curse! That’s nuts! Laughing at the fact that she’s paid back for the ‘tacos’ incident!

Regina and Zelena fighting - I know this episode was really meant to bring Zelena and Regina into conflict, since they hadn’t even really talked in so long. The fighting felt realistic. I always think Regina is the older sister, since she’s so much more rational and Zelena acts out her emotions so often. She goes off half-cocked and Regina has to pick up after her. It felt like real sisters fighting.

Rumple and Belle - I loved the hug and how happy Belle was to know Gideon isn’t at fault. I haven’t seen her smile like that in ages :) ‘This means he can be saved’ yay! I also loved how supportive she was of Rumple, saying he did what he did to protect Gideon and how he couldn’t have known his mother was pulling the strings. I love how they’ve been trading hope all this half season and she’s giving him a boost this time. It’s lovely that she’s supporting his decisions and just trusting him to take care of the Blue situation. Sometimes the best thing you can do is just stand with someone in their actions, and Belle is being amazing at that now. You can really see them building back trust. Poor Rumple is so frustrated, thinking he’s helped his mother by taking Blue’s magic and wanting so much to be able to wake her. He’s so worried and tense, poor baby.

Belle and Green Bean - this was so sweet. Emilie and Rebecca must have had a lot of fun filming Zelena asking Belle to look after her daughter when Emilie is the one with the daughter in real life. The baby was so cute as well the way she stared at Emilie and smiled when Emilie was playing with her. I’m sure that giraffe belonged to the baby, but I’m just imagining Belle having toys in the shop for her and Rumple’s baby. She was so sweet and loving with the baby, and didn’t show any sign of jealousy or hurt that she’d never gotten to raise her baby. She looked a bit regretful handing the baby back to Zelena, but I love how strong she is for not being angry or blaming anyone because she didn’t get to raise her baby. And I appreciate that Belle and Zelena recognise common ground in each other. I don’t see them as friends, but they recognise that they’re both mothers who love their children, and I think it’s nice that Zelena trusts Belle to look after her child now, after the debacle in the Underworld. I also appreciate that Belle’s relationships with people can be different from Rumple’s and that he wouldn’t try to impose his attitudes to people on Belle, and she wouldn’t do likewise. They can be their own people and have their own opinions about people, though I can’t see Zelena ever being invited over to the house after Rumple and Belle are back together.

Henry trying to cheat by using his powers - oh, Henry, you know you’re not supposed to do that! Or does it only count as cheating when you write in the book? I can’t remember the rules… But obviously the Final Battle is the way it has to be for some reason. Emma was never going to be able to get out of it

How does Regina not recognise her own niece? - I thought that was weird!

Your wickedness - I laughed at that, and at all the green food on the table!

Stanum is the tin man - I kinda thought he would be.

Zelena is afraid - I think she’s lonely, but she fears trying to make friends because she fears people will hate her or be afraid of her magic. And she doesn’t help herself either because of how she uses her magic.

Snowing fighting - I kinda thought that was weird. It was very bad taste bringing Whale up, and calling Granny’s a scrap heap? That wasn’t very nice. So, David was trying to sabotage the planning because he’s afraid of what’s coming? He’s afraid of the Final Battle and the Black Fairy, and he wants his daughter to be safe and have a wedding day without fear. I can understand that. He doesn’t want the best day of her life to turn into the worst. I get it. I still think he was a bit mean about throwing Whale in Snow’s face and what he said about Granny’s.

Why can’t they have the wedding on the ship? - That would be them, not a big fancy royal wedding. Emma’s a princess, but she never acted like one. She didn’t like princess Emma in the wish realm. It’s weird that they’re suggesting a royal wedding. And can she not keep her hands off Hook for like five seconds? She just looks clingy and nuts. And the way she looks at Henry when he speaks is a bit like ‘ew, you’re here?’ It’s like she’s forgotten or doesn’t care about her son. I don’t like this Emma.

Why does Zelena have to be better than everyone else? - I suppose it’s because she thinks magic is all she has, and it comforts her to know she’s ‘better’ at it than her sister. It doesn’t half get her into trouble though.

The chase through the mines - I thought this was a bit stupid. All of these women have magic! Why are they chasing each other?!

Fairy crystals - ok, how did Leroy and the other dwarfs never find these? There are LOADS of them! I suppose the Black Fairy wanted to use those to cast the Dark Curse, yes? The Final Battle is obviously part of this curse… I wonder what extra kick Zelena’s unstable magic would give these crystals. The crystals must take the place of the heart of the thing you love most. Unless the Black Fairy plans on using a heart, but I don’t think she is. I think she wants to do it differently. I presume Rumple is the thing she loves most and she wants him as part of her family, so using his heart would defeat the purpose of the curse.

Zelena’s sacrifice - so, she refused to give up her magic for Stanum, but now she realises she’ll always be alone if she doesn’t try to make friends and put down roots, so she’s willing to fix her mistake in letting herself be tricked by the Black Fairy by giving up her magic and untethering it from the crystals. I think that was brave. It’ll be interesting to see how she adjusts to life without magic, though I’m not sure what more the show can do with her, really. If they keep her, I think they’ll have to give her magic back at some point.

She’s one of us - right, Emma, you protect the child of the woman who tried to steal your brother and kill your own child, and killed Neal, but the son of the man who just saved your life is on his own. Good to know. Yeah, she’ll stick her neck out for everyone who’s last name isn’t Gold.

Regina proud of Zelena - I like that they apologised to each other and that Regina’s proud of her sister. I think acceptance and validation is all Zelena really wanted, and it wasn’t really fair to blame Zelena for Robin’s death, because that’s still on Emma for making the deal with Hades that allowed him to come to Storybrooke in the first place. Hell, it’s on Emma for bringing them all to the Underworld in the first place!

Rumple and Belle - I can’t believe they kept the whereabouts of the Blue Fairy hidden from everyone! But I love that Belle took the blame and then Rumple came in and said it was on both of them. They really are backing each other up and supporting each other, and it’s wonderful. I like how Rumple wants to be the one to return Blue’s magic, but I also like that he listens to Belle. I love how determined Belle is not to lose any more time with Gideon after realising how much time they’ve lost and aren’t going to get back. She’s so supportive and understanding, and she doesn’t tell Rumple what to do, she just makes a suggestion and explains why it might be a good idea to let them try. I love that, even though Rumple doesn’t trust the others and wanted to do this himself, he lets them try.

The Black Fairy’s darkest secret - is obviously something that Rumple won’t like, otherwise she’d tell him. It can’t be that she gave him up to give him his best chance: it has to be that she did something terrible to him, something he won’t be able to forgive. Have to say I loved Gideon goading her a bit :) And the way she’s sort of testy and defeated is how I wrote her in one of my recent fics, so I was pleased to align with canon characterisation :) Part of me is wondering if Rumple is maybe a bit afraid of Blue waking up because he thinks she may know something about why his mother gave him up, and he’s scared of finding out the truth.

#ouat #6.18 where bluebirds fly #scribbles-by-kate's episode reviews #rumbelle #anti-emma swan #zelena mills

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mittensmorgul · 7 years

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1.20... VAMPIRES.

aka, the evils of humanity exposed. Lies, deception, hiding the truth.

SAM: Wait, you came all the way out here for this Elkins guy? JOHN: Yeah. He was... he was a good man. He taught me a hell of a lot about hunting. SAM: Well you never mentioned him to us. JOHN: We had a... we had kind of a falling out. I hadn't seen him in years. (gesturing to the envelope) I should look at that. (He opens it) 'If you're reading this, I'm already dead'... that son of a bitch. DEAN: What is it? JOHN: He had it the whole time. SAM: Dad, what? JOHN: When you searched the place, did you, did you see a gun? An antique, a Colt revolver, did you see it? DEAN: Ah, there was, there was an old case but it was empty. JOHN: They have it.

John had never mentioned Elkins to Sam or Dean, but we know (thanks 6.18) that his primary connection to Elkins would’ve been about the Colt. Sort of makes a person wonder if their “falling out” hadn’t been about the Colt all along. Elkins not wanting to give it to John, John wanting it to kill the demon...

Gosh that gun has a looooong and horrifying history with the Winchester family. It’s an excellent reminder for just how awful Mary’s ignorance of all this history, of what this gun has meant to her family, and the fact she just ~handed it over~ to the people who’d tortured Sam...

They say Samuel Colt made a gun. A special gun. He made it for a hunter, a man like us only on horseback. Story goes he made thirteen bullets, and this hunter used the gun a half dozen times before he disappeared, the gun along with him. And somehow Daniel got his hands on it.

(I mean... Sam’s the guy on horseback here... and Dean’s the last hunter to shoot it at this point... and he dropped the gun when Cas pulled him back from 1861, and that’s probably when Colt left the gun with the Elkins family in Sunrise...)

JOHN: They were what Daniel Elkins killed best: Vampires. DEAN: Vampires? I thought there was no such thing. SAM: You never even mentioned them, Dad. JOHN: I thought they were extinct. I thought Elkins and -- and others had wiped them out. I was wrong.

Most vampire lore is crap. A cross won't repel them, sunlight won't kill them, and neither will a stake to the heart. But the bloodlust, that part's true. They need fresh human blood to survive. They were once people, so you won't know it's a vampire until it's too late.

And here we have the very first bit of vampire lore in the entire series. Something that had always been kept hidden from Sam and Dean by John. This is also the first real hunt we’ve seen John participate in fully, and where we get to see his dictatorial leadership style, the whole “only give them the bare minimum information and expect them to just do as they’re told without question.”

Oh, and this like always makes me so damn angry:

JOHN: Hey Dean why don't you touch up your car before you get rust? I wouldn't have given you the damn thing if I thought you were going to ruin it.

He wasn’t lashing out at Dean about the state Baby was in. He was just lashing out in general. It was about obedience, and the fact that Sam and Dean currently weren’t being very obedient. Yes, it brought out the worst in him, this fear and urge to protect his children that manifested the hidden drill sergeant in him:

JOHN: I don't think I ever told you this but ... the day you were born, you know what I did? SAM: No. JOHN: I put a hundred bucks into a savings account for you. I did the same thing for your brother. It was a college fund. And every month I'd put in another hundred dollars, until... Anyway my point is, Sam, this is never the life that I wanted for you. SAM: Then why'd you get so mad when I left? JOHN: You gotta understand something. After your mother passed all I saw was evil, everywhere. And all I cared about was keeping you boys alive. I wanted you...prepared. Ready. Except somewhere along the line I ... uh ... I stopped being your father and I ... I became your, your drill sergeant. So when you said that you wanted to go away to school, all I could think about, my only thought was, that you were gonna be alone. Vulnerable. Sammy, it just... it never occurred to me what you wanted. I just couldn't accept the fact that you and me -- We're just different. JOHN: What? SAM: We're not different. Not anymore. With what happened to Mom and Jess... (laughs) Well we probably have a lot more in common than just about anyone.

I mean, it’s not an excuse by any stretch of the imagination, but it does give a little bit of context. But we finally get Sam and Dean standing up to John together.

SAM: You're leaving again ,aren't you. You still wanna go after the demon alone. You know, I don't get you. You can't treat us like this. JOHN: Like what? SAM: Like children. JOHN: You are my children. I'm trying to keep you safe. DEAN: Dad, all due respect but, uh, that's a bunch of crap. JOHN: Excuse me? DEAN: You know what Sammy and I have been hunting. Hell you sent us on a few hunting trips yourself. You can't be that worried about keeping us safe. JOHN: It's not the same thing, Dean. DEAN: Then what is it? Why do you want us out of the big fight? JOHN: This demon? It's a bad son of a bitch. I can't make the same moves if I'm worried about keeping you alive. DEAN: You mean you can't be as reckless. JOHN: Look... I don't expect to make it out of this fight in one piece. Your mother's death ... it almost killed me. I can't watch my children die too. I won't. DEAN: What happens if you die? Dad, what happens if you die, and we coulda done something about it? You know I been thinking. I ...think maybe Sammy's right about this one. We should do this together. DEAN: We're stronger as a family, Dad. We just are. You know it. JOHN: We're running out of time. You do your job and you get out of the area. That's an order.

And in that respect, this is sort of the first iteration of Sam and Dean “tearing up the script.” They defined that direct order, but if they hadn’t, John would’ve been dead, the Colt would’ve been lost, and the whole plan would’ve failed.

Dean’s “assignment” had been to save the people the vampires had in a cage. But he and Sam came back.

And here’s a VERY TELLING AND RELEVANT EXCHANGE BETWEEN LUTHER THE VAMPIRE AND JOHN WINCHESTER:

LUTHER: You people. Why can't you leave us alone. We have as much right to live as you do. JOHN: I don't think so.

Just like the BMoL, this idea that the vampires (and other monsters) don’t have as much right to live as anyone else. >.>

And then Dean stands up to John when their obedience is called into question again.

JOHN: You ignored a direct order back there.

DEAN: Yeah but we saved your ass.

JOHN: It scares the hell out of me. You two are all I've got. But I guess we are stronger as a family. So...we go after this damn thing. Together.

#spn 1.20 #spn monsters #lies and damn lies #winchester family dynamics #the ghost of john winchester #the colt #using your words

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mittensmorgul · 7 years

Text

The Right Thing vs The Greater Good

I’ve been rewatching the middle bits of s11 on the TNT loop today (11.14-17), and throwing in 11.10 for Dabb putting his fingerprints all over the mytharc for s11, it really feels like this chunk of episodes is really when Dabb started exerting his influence all over the major themes of the series. And this group of episodes really clearly shows the sorts of themes that s12 is addressing in another way, especially since it seems like Dabb had been in cahoots with Bobo, and still is… :D

(pffft another way)

I included some of my chattybubble thoughts to Lizbob for both clarification and some just for funsies because I think I’m hilarious. :D

There’s the extremely surface level stuff about the MoL involvement in Europe in the past, and bringing that plot to the surface (heh because those events culminated in the sinking of a submarine, I crack myself up).

I’d like to point out that 11.14 and 11.16 BOTH deal with time travel, or stories that play with time in interesting ways, THIS is how you do time travel episodes. And the consequences of 11.14 are similar to the consequences of traveling to the past in the entire history of this show (4.03, 5.13, 6.18, 7.12…) WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE DREADED BUCKLEMMING TIME TRAVEL FIASCOES. Ugh. Okay. Sorry. Just had to say that.

Most of my thoughts on 11.15 and 11.16 ended up tidily summarized in our chats, so here, have a transcript of those, followed by my runthrough of the MAJOR INPORTINT THEMES in 11.17 that are still playing out mid s12. Under a cut, because I still haven’t learned the meaning of the word “brevity.” At least I’m still funny:

(edited for readability, and focus in on the main points. Y’all don’t need to hear such bits of this as me musing over the dozens of robins roosting in my birch tree or that Lizbob went out for a walk at one point...I bolded some key things if you’d prefer to just sorta skim this...)

Mittensmorgul: oh gosh mel's texting me, and I had to tell her that I'd rewound the "travel back in time" episode, she's like "ooh wrestling ep in 4 minutes!" and I had to tell her I'm "not caught up to real time yet." I hate time travel :P

Elizabethrobertajones: hahaha you're in a time loop. amazing :P are you up to the wrestling yet? Does it look any different from a Dabb vs performing Dean hindsight?

Mittensmorgul: It's a bit like an early "ghost of john winchester" preview to s12

Mittensmorgul: Heck I feel really bad for Harley, He believed in himself, turned down a demon deal, and ended up tortured and dead because of it :(

Elizabethrobertajones: yeah :< he was a Dean mirror at the time, right? I can't remember why

Mittensmorgul: He'd spent the first half grumpy at the "old guys." He was almost killed accidentally by the hangman's noose in the ring. the one whose funeral started everything. he was a suspect at first, they thought he was the demon for a bit. he was accusing gunner of being on drugs (he saw his dealer... er. demon). He was a hothead supposedly starting trouble, but really he was standing up for the "honor" (not the right word but whatever) of what they do, working for next to nothing night after night on the road. Ends up having his soul stolen by a demon against his will anyway

Elizabethrobertajones: right, he was a worst case scenario about souls being snatched, which we were worried about at the time

Mittensmorgul: and then in the end, after all Harley's yelling at Gunner about being dirty (via drugs, or via whatever...) Dean finally breaks through to Gunner with reason, with words\ Like Dean was an older and wiser version of Harley. Harley could never have guessed that GUnner's problem wasn't "drugs" but a demon... But Dean not only understood, he empathized, and talked Gunner into choosing another way

Elizabethrobertajones: heeey that sounds familiar :P

Mittensmorgul: honesty, accepting your responsibility, "It's never too late to do the right thing." ack gunner "I look in the mirror and I hate the face looking back at me. I got this coming." That hasn't been Dean in a while now

HELLHOUNDS

and oh my... Dean's "It's never too late to do the right thing" which he believes because "I have to." Because at the beginning his SOLE mission was finding a way to save Cas from having said YEs to Luci

And Sam's like, "If he even wants to be saved"

Dean says "He does, even if he doesn't know it yet"

RUFUS! I've been wanting to see this episode again since reading something about the parallel between Dean and Rufus via Ketch's arrival at the bunker

It's like Bobo, Dabb, and Robbie had all conspired to this theme of "fixing the past" via actions taken in the present by finding another better way

It’s literally it's the entire point of this episode

Where Dean's "better" spell doesn't just trap the soul eater, it KILLS it and frees everyone who's stuck "outside of time and space" in its nest

[we had a rambling discussion of just how much this foreshadowed everything that happened in 11.23]

Elizabethrobertajones: so Dean walked in and walked out And clapped eyes on a long-lost parental figure on the way out :P

Mittensmorgul: BUT in doing so he ALSO frees Bobby's soul, and the trapped kids from the past

Elizabethrobertajones: freeing the things from the past. yikes :P Like Mary was freed from the past

Mittensmorgul: This is literally the theme of s12… Having better tools, better info, a more complete plan for saving everything, healing the past so everyone can move forward

I remember seeing something about how 12.15 paralleled Dean to Rufus... and some of 11.16 does... literally putting Dean into Rufus's exact position as they switch back and forth between past and present. BUT THEN IT'S BOBBY WHO GOES INTO THE SOUL EATER'S NEST WITH DEAN Like Sam and Dean have flipped roles here. Or that they're interchangeably both bobby and rufus...

ACK the soul eater telling Sam "Your brother wants to go to the Darkness, NEEDS to go, but I can keep him here safe, forever." but... they ended up finding a better way through words and balance

Elizabethrobertajones: it's the only time they've seen each other since Bobby died, and Bobby's still technically alive on HIS end, so Dean STILL has never interacted with him, unlike Sam who has twice plus a dream

Mittensmorgul: We're picking at the ghost of John this season, but Bobby's a big part of "father figures" for Dean, and he's been there subtly all season too

ACK the bottle Sam and Jody found in 7.12. And the first call Bobby gets when he's free is from Dean... in the past... They're talking about Bobby maybe having been there "outside of space and time" and that Bobby had never written up his notes about that case... when Dean says "Let's get drunk and never think about this again.” Which is probably what bobby did.

AND THEN THE SAME SONG IS PLAYING ON THEIR RADIO THAT PLAYED ON BOBBY'S AS THEY LEFT

Okay, that was the end of our chat because we had to run off and do other things for a bit, but I did go on to watch 11.17 again as well. And that just neatly tied everything back together again, and there were some things there I believe are KEY to what s12 is focusing on. Back in s11 all of these topics were being dealt with “externally,” applied to situations beyond just Sam, Dean, Cas, etc. Yeah, Dean was central to the Chuck and Amara stuff (pffft as the firewall between light and dark), but now all these big themes are being applied to the Winchester family directly in a sort of “As above, so below” sort of way.

A LOT has changed since 11.15 when Dean needed to take a break from research to clear his mind, because he’d been “spinning his wheels” trying to find a way to save Cas from Lucifer. But now in 11.17 it’s Sam who’s brought him this new case. Dean’s no longer spinning his wheels even if he hasn’t gotten any traction on solving the Casifer problem yet, but his drive to succeed has taken on the KEEP GRINDING motto. He doesn’t want or need to distract himself with this werewolf case, but Sam thinks it’s time for another “clear our heads” break.

Dean drags his heels, but relents.

Like many of the other “civilians” they encounter in s11, Michelle readily accepts the supernatural. Corbin had originally “rejected” the idea that these could be “monsters”-- specifically werewolves, and in the end he’d become the monster himself.

One of the big themes of 11.17 is miscommunication. Everything from Corbin questioning why they needed a landline phone (Don’t you have a cell phone?) because there was no signal service way out there in the woods, to Corbin lying about the extent of his own injuries and making Michelle doubt the evidence of her own eyes.

Michelle: Are you okay? I thought yesterday... Corbin: Just a couple scratches.

She’d seen him bitten, but he dismissed her concerns over and over again, even dismissing her “outlandish” claims when she’s finally at the hospital being interviewed by the sheriff.

Here’s another lovely pair of themes from s12 illustrated very concisely:

Corbin: I... look. Hey, Michelle's real sick, but she's got a chance. Him... he's slowing us down. And if they find us... Dean: We saved you, okay? We saved both of you. Corbin: It's three lives versus one.

Both the “you vs ALL of you” and the theme of “the greater good.” Compare that to I love you, I love all of you, and >.>. But also that last line, “three lives versus one.” That’s The Greater Good reduced to a simple math problem, which Corbin had rigged in his favor by “killing” Sam.

(also bizarre aside, are trees out to get Dean? Here he has a fight with a tree, and in 12.11 the spell that made him lose his memories was carved into a tree and Rowena described the spell as written in “the Language of Trees.” Not to mention the bloody handprint on the tree that spurred him to giddily remember that their best friend’s an angel… okay, end random tree-related digression)

(no I’m reopening the random tree-related digression to postulate that ALL of this is down to the Vanir’s apple tree Dean burned way back in 1.11. I swear, that apple pie was probably freaking worth it... between scarecrows,pie, apples and orchards-- thinking of 7.05 here too-- and just trees in general, I think it wasn’t the broken mirrors from 1.05 that have haunted them all these years, but that dumbass scarecrow... okay, moving on for realsies now)

First it’s Sam’s turn to try and convince Corbin and Michelle to go, to run, to save themselves and leave him behind. Corbin sees the truth of it, though. He knows Dean won’t leave Sam there to die alone. So he makes the executive (possibly influenced by his loss of humanity, that he’s already becoming a “monster”) to suffocate Sam so that Dean will have a reason to leave.

For the greater good…

And at that point, Dean still needed to be convinced to leave Sam behind, but he promised to come back. He went along with the “greater good” of saving the “innocent people” since he didn’t know that one of them was literally and figuratively a monster.

This also neatly captures all the duality subtext in s12, as well. Nephilim, MoL vs hunters, people as monsters, monsters as people, angels as humans, angels living in harmony with a human soul, angels trapped in human bodies… there’s just a lot of this in s12. There’s also the lengths someone will go to in the name of “love,” however monstrous or misguided or even unwanted by the object of that love. More on that later.

Again, like 12.12 that told the story in a non-linear fashion, 11.17 employs a similar “messing with time” storytelling device, only revealing the past through the events of the present. We only understand how the story got to this point via small glimpses of “revisiting the past” through the events of the present. This was a HUGE theme of s11 (most clearly demonstrated in 11.14 and 11.16, as described above), considering the end result of s11 was a resolution of the original “problem” that resulted from the creation of the universe. S12 is doing almost the exact same thing, but instead of being framed around the Darkness being released and eventually reuniting with God, Mary has been released, bringing that universal conflict down to a human scale.

Back to the miscommunication…

Rather than explaining that there was another injured member of their party he needed to get back to attend to, Dean fights against the sheriff and ends up tasered and arrested. If he’d just used his words, the sheriff probably would’ve let him run back to help Sam, but then Corbin would’ve likely killed/turned Michelle without Dean there to intervene at the hospital, and he may have killed many others, as well.

Over and over, cell phones either don’t work in this episode, or they’re only working well enough to get a word or two through.

MISCOMMUNICATION IS THE EVOLEST VILLAIN.

Or maybe it’s actually this:

Corbin: I saved us. Look, you're hurt bad and... and I love you, Michelle. I can't lose you. I did what I had to do.

Seriously, if you hear I DID WHAT I HAD TO DO and don’t simultaneously hear Kill Bill sirens… you should be hearing Kill Bill sirens...

Meanwhile, Corbin knows exactly what bit him, and when asked directly by the doctor, he only tells her “I’m good.” He lies, he refuses to answer, he downplays the truth when someone else speaks it, even to the point of dismissing Michelle’s point of view entirely.

In the worst rendition of “unsuccessful communication,” the sheriff is unable to contact Charlie the Ranger for assistance because he’s already been killed by the monsters.

In another example of miscommunication, even between two people who are actively trying to help one another, Dean refers to Billie as a “Scary, crazy death machine,” and Michelle repeats back “Crazy, evil death machine.” She reinterpreted Dean’s words, and replaced “scary” with “evil,” and those words just aren’t synonyms, you know? Just because something’s scary doesn’t mean it’s evil. Proof that even when two people are essentially on the same page, they might very well have VASTLY DIFFERENT UNDERSTANDINGS AND INTERPRETATIONS of the situation at hand.

*coughRashomonEffectcough*

And… poor Michelle:

Michelle: Corbin? Corbin: Hey, baby. Please, don't be scared of me. I didn't want this. Okay, any of this, but... it's happened and it feels so... you'll see. [Michelle whimpers.] We'll be together. Michelle: No. Please. Corbin: Forever. Michelle: No!

Forced love, or forced life, overriding someone else’s will, and yet Michelle decides what she wants for herself.

And then, a theme that’s been sort of haunting the narrative since the pilot episode, and has now been resurrected right along with Mary:

Michelle: They said I could leave... [she sighs] an hour ago. But... where am I even supposed to go? After everything we survived together... [turning back to Dean] I watched the man I love die. There's no normal after that.

This is what happened to John Winchester. He watched the woman he loved die, and there was never any normal after that. Now Mary is back, without John, and there’s never going to be any normal for her either. But that doesn’t mean there can never be anything worth living for again.

#spn 11.14 #spn 11.15 #spn 11.16 #spn 11.17 #spn s12 speculation #this is an andrew dabb appreciation blog (except when it comes to car stuff)#this is a bobo berens appreciation blog #i tag this with rewatch notes but really this is mainly for my own record keeping purposes #and is likely just an arrangement of words in the shape of a pile to anyone else but i swear it's all relevant to s12!#breaking the codependency #using your words #men of letters vs hunters #spn monsters #here have my belated thoughts on the whole love... and love #winchester family dynamics #dabb vs cars

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