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lostuntothisworld · 2 months

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Okay so I think it's time for another spaghetti theory:

Lilamoth isn't collecting moms. She's collecting sisters (or siblings)

Let me explain my thought process here. So a big complaint the fandom has is that we don't have a proper rogue gallery for villains. It's just the butterfly, and nothing else. It worked for early seasons, but things might be getting stale for some folks.

Enter new characters connected to Lilamoth somehow.

So she has 3 moms so far (that we know about.) All but one have something in common: dark hair and blue eyes.

From left to right we have Mrs. Rossi (red), Mrs. Bianca (white), and her third mother who is deaf could possibly be Mrs. Verdi (green).

Then we have this fourth lady that we see Lilamoth watching on her phone in the season 5 finale. I would NOT be surprised if Odille is going to be her 4th mom. Dark hair and blue eyes, and she is also disabled, just like her third mom.

(And I would not be surprised if we find out her surname is Nero (black), or Viola (violet). More on that aspect of this crack theory in a bit...)

Anyway, back to the concept of a rogues gallery. In the finale we see Lila in a disguise that 's VERY reminiscent of one of her moms:

Certainly she can't expect to disguise herself as a woman in her 30's-40's, and especially not with glasses and bangs. But she can pass reasonably as a teenage girl with a dark bob and glasses. You know, a sister.

So we know a certain main character whose name is in the title and wears red with black polkadots has dark hair and blue eyes. We don't know Lilamoth's motivations and and end goal, but we can surmise that she wants to take the place of Marinette.

(And I KNOW I've seen at least one other person theorize this, and I cannot find the post(s) so if you can find it please let me know so I can link it here!)

The pictures we see is one of Marinette with her classmates on the Liberty where Zoe is accepted in the friend group, Marinette with her parents, 3 pictures of Marinette with Kagami, and one picture of Marinette with Luka.

It's interesting to note that there isn't a picture of Marinette and Adrien together shown to the audience. You'd think they'd emphasize that, but no, it's mostly Kagami. I know it's because it's because the episode focuses on Kagami, but still. Other than her, it's just Marinette's parents, Zoe and Luka (Luka! Marinette's ex!) showcased in the closeup screenshot.

I got sidetracked! Anyway, I think other than similar coloring (and color-themed surnames haha) Lilamoth is trying to find other teenagers who are willing to join forces with her. She probably will get her hands on some Miraculous for them, somehow. But I don't think the new jewels will be from the Chinese box.

Here's where things start REALLY going off the rails with this theory:

All of Lilamoth's rogue gallery of villains are her adopted sisters (or siblings) and they are all Luka's exes. He's got a type for Italians with dark hair and blue eyes...

Going back to the surnames, all the surnames have something in common: they share the colors of all of Adrien's various transformations over the course of the series so far:

Rossi: Mister Bug

Bianca: Chat Blanc

Verdi: Aspik

We're just missing Chat Noir (could possibly will be the surname Nero, as it's Italian)

and Ephemeral (it's interesting to note that the surname Lee in Chinese can mean plum, which of course, is purple)

So naturally, my crack theory circles back to Lukadrien is endgame.

Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.

{{{{{{Edit as of April 3, 2024.}}}}}

I will NOT be surprised if this girl with black hair in an extremely recognizable style is a disguise of another sister.

Is Lilamoth collecting blackmail to manipulate them later? She's very obviously walking disguised in areas where there would be lots of cameras (The inside of the Agreste mansion, and the hotel).

(Edit as of April 27, 2024!)

Now we know the synopsis of the London Special, I believe the disguises are to hide Lilamoth's tracks because she knows Maribug's identity. Bonus points if these girls were previous Ladybugs in past time lines that Lilamoth stole the identities of...

#not gonna be surprised if one of Luka's exes is that Adam guy from the noncanon comics that have access to early plot points #he was akumatized with time manipulation powers and was defeated with a hand mirror #naturally I gotta point out the obvious: Viperion and Second Chance and Kagami means mirror #there's no way one of Luka's at least 4 exes isn't a dude #Someone ask me about the band Luka's exes form in dedication to Ladybug and how that ties back to Luka being Bob Roth's newest rockstar #miraculous ladybug #lila rossi #cerise bianca #iris verdi #adrien agreste #marinette dupain cheng #cat noir #chat noir #luka couffaine #kagami tsurugi #miraculous ladybug theory #lukadrien #marigami #yeah marigami is endgame too #ml theory #miraculous ladybug season 6 #ladybug season 6 #miraculous world london #chronobug and the ghosts of the past

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miraculouscontent · 4 years

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Ask Explosion #6

Asks answering previous posts:

Oh, okay! I’m glad, thank you!

(the post this anon is referring to)

Ohhhh.

And fjbgjnfkjgfg thanks >////<

I don’t think there’s much wrong with liking the design itself; I prefer Riposte personally, but that’s just me.

The best way I could put the “insensitive” part (I’m sort of dumb when it comes to this stuff and I talked about it before when I was working on that 3D model of Marinette) is that it’s so heavy on Japanese. I mean, they already have Kagami constantly wear what looks like a school uniform and Tomoe is just like--super heavy Japanese. It’s like the show doesn’t know how to balance “can’t tell at all” (with Marinette) and then “okay this is WAY strong” (with Kagami+Tomoe+Kung Food).

That makes sense! I guess the only problem then would be that the kwami can’t really act as mentors of any kind because “you’re saying this just because that’s all you can say” (like Sass, hypothetically, always willing to give someone a second chance, no matter what; I know that’s not what his power specifically entails but it’s just an example).

I would however definitely lean towards kwami being very strict in one alignment, so Tikki would always be on the path of pure good and thus never want to take/steal/whatever, whereas Plagg is always on the path of “bad,” but there are times where Marinette will have to ignore Tikki while Adrien will have to listen to Plagg.

And yeah, the guardians existing and the kwami not having so much control... not a huge fan.

Someone asked about Chat Noir’s flirting and he claimed that it was “on purpose” (you know, while throwing episodes like “Felix” at us but okay) and then he followed up with this:

There was also this other comment he made a while back when someone tried to make a suggestion to him:

Except he’s missing the point completely. When he talks about constructive criticism, he acts like it doesn’t matter, especially not anymore now that they’re working on Seasons 4 and 5:

(I mean, personally, I don’t think I need “engineering knowledge” to know when a rollercoaster I’d ridden nearly tossed the cart off the tracks and had questionable design decisions, but you do you, Astruc.)

Yes, constructive criticism is mainly for seeing a product improve, but that doesn’t mean ignoring it because, “well you haven’t seen the full product.”

“Animaestro” even has a bit of commentary on it:

Ladybug: What's with that trailer too? I am not scared of cats, at all.

Animaestro: You haven't even seen the movie and you're already slamming it?

Chat Noir: He does have a point, you know.

Ladybug: I wasn't slamming it. It's called constructive criticism!

(firstly, of course Chat Noir bows to Astruc on that one because he’s Astruc’s sunshine boy, ugh)

Ignoring the fact that a movie/printed book is usually a “full product,” criticism is also to say “you did this thing wrong, don’t do this in the future.” It doesn’t have to be referring strictly to the show. It’s just, “you did this thing wrong and here’s why, try to catch yourself if you accidentally do it again in the future, whether in what you’re working on now or otherwise.”

(He’s also talked about “unsolicited critique” before and I don’t know what that means? Like, dude, this isn’t someone’s fanfiction where I’d actually agree that you can’t go after them for their work. This is professional work.)

Anyway, remember “Chameleon”? When everyone saw the trailer and absolutely flipped out over it, then there were people who were like, “Wait for the full episode!!”?

Guess what? The full episode came out and people were either just as mad or even madder than before.

Astruc wants to have his cake and eat it to. He wants to say that his episodes are “stand-alone,” and that the order isn’t that important, but when people start pointing out issues, it becomes, “No! You have to wait for the rest of the episodes to come out!” and when people do that, it’s gonna be like, “Well, we already did the whole show so it’s not like I can change anything. *shrug*”

Also, just blaming it on “the industry” when everything else has been exhausted:

(He’s literally brought up before that the New York special was meant to have subplots about other characters, so it’s not like he can never say anything when something didn’t fit the “original vision”; I’m not asking him to get on his knees and say he’s sorry - plus, I do recognize that a lot of influence comes from the industry and people like Jeremy - but I expect a little more than the “whoops” he gave when people pointed out that “Weredad” contradicted his statement on Miraculous Ladybug.)

I think the reason people see it the way they do is because of Fu’s line in “Robostus” seems to imply the exact opposite thing happening.

Master Fu: Universe must always stay in balance. For every action, there is a reaction. For every wish, a price to pay in return. Had your robotic friend asked to become a real boy, someone would have lost his humanity in return.

New Asks:

Marigami is acceptable. I’m not crazy about it but it’s likable enough.

Lukadrien though... no, absolutely not. On a conceptual level, because it’s such a slap in the face for Marinette, and on a fanon level, because most of the jokes around it is Luka going to Marinette like he’s about to ask her out and then just asks for Adrien’s details. It’s just... ugh. I hate it (throwing Marinette into the ship still doesn’t help for me though because I’m not into the love square).

Bi erasure is my least favorite thing.

And yeah, it’s like--they set the love square ship(s?) out onto the water, then the Lukanette ship later with the plan to either sink it or just kinda... return it to the harbor if they don’t make a huge fuss about it?

Meanwhile, the love square ship has been in piece this whole time, and instead of letting it sink, they put it on a raft to keep it floating.

Depends.

In LadyBugOut? It’s already written and I haven’t posted it.

For canon? Like, Marinette being super disappointed at her view of Adrien being shattered or? :P

That’s accurate. I dislike about a fourth-ish of Season 1,then about half-ish of Season 2, then like... almost all of Season 3.

So we’ll just have to see what happens in Season 4.

I like Adrimi, but I’m not crazy about it and I don’t really write for it unless Lukanette is already the main ship (making Adrimi just a background ship). Adrien tends to dismiss Kagami a lot (like in “Frozer” and then “Miracle Queen” with him not committing) and I don’t want to see Kagami hurting like that (I agree with the anon completely that Adrien is more at fault than she is). They’re both emotionally-stunted so I usually have them wait it out or something to have them get together.

My ideal endgame is Lukanette while Adrimi is more like “let’s wait, let’s work on ourselves (especially Adrien; Kagami at least has on firm crush and wants to commit to it), and we’ll see where we go down the line.”

I don’t know if they really have the guts to arrest Gabriel. I also think that Lila might pick up the butterfly at the end of Season 5 or something after she’s been “dealt with.”

Chloe also is the mayor’s daughter so even if the law was that strict on teens, nothing would happen to her unless Andre got replaced.

Big yikes.

Maybe that the thing forcing Marinette away from Adrien and causing things to go wrong is the part of the curse trying to prevent the ladybug and cat miraculous from coming together?

So, close enough to be attracted and want to work together, but forcing the ladybug away from the cat to prevent the miraculouses from being used to make a wish?

I CHOKED ON MY DRINK.

ugh

ugggggggh

I’m 100% sure that Marinette wouldn’t be as uncomfortable around Adrien if Alya hadn’t constantly intervened. She’s the enabler of both Marinette’s anxiety and her crush on Adrien.

I went back and looked at the scene and it does kinda look like it, yes, because it basically goes from the intersection Marinette is in to another intersection that looks very, extremely similar and I don’t see Marinette in that intersection.

It was just a really, really bad transition. I remember being thrown off for a second too so I don’t blame you, anon.

I think Bob Roth’s intent was to scare Marinette away from showing that proof? He probably knows very well that Marinette has all the evidence she needs to make a case and already had a story planned for the press about how “the young talents they found didn’t measure up and the people deserved better.”

He just needed enough pressure on them for them to believe that he had enough authority to silence them.

And then Silencer tried to silence him instead. :3

I don’t think Marinette’s relationship with her parents would change too much. Like, they already let her just go out whenever she wants which obviously Plagg approves off, although Marinette might become more numb to the idea of being grounded because Plagg just teaches her, “hey lol Ladybug isn’t grounded tho,” so Marinette sneaks out all the time.

Yeah, Tikki would probably justify Gabriel’s behavior, and she wouldn’t really be able to get on his case for flirting as Mister Bug because she’s not aware of it.

lol it helps no one to have Tikki I guess.

Adrien overall and then honorable mention to Alya for Winny’s comment about her being Marinette’s conscience (which is probably why they almost never nail Alya for stuff she does).

KHNJFDNGFD THE LUKANETTE QUEEN MONIKER RETURNS >///<

And ugh, the absolute level of bias in that. Even if the video was made in, like, Season 2 (don’t know, didn’t see it), Season 2 still gives examples of why Adrienette isn’t making Marinette happy at all (and has some of the love square failings too).

The name and the fact that they gave it that name tells me everything I need to know.

Goodness gracious.

Yeah, people can talk about character’s flaws. I mean, we talk a lot here about Marinette’s struggles in getting over Adrien (partly brought on by a lot of outside factors but still).

Also, sure, Luka is a “pushover” because he’s one of the few characters who understands Marinette’s tunnel vision and isn’t bothered by it, okay. :P (Interesting that the topic of Chat’s entitlement towards Ladybug but Luka respecting her choices and just enjoying being around her makes him her punching bag).

Every time I hear, “Adrien needs more spotlight!!!” I lose a part of my soul. How people can’t see that Marinette is the show’s true punching bag is beyond me.

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rosethornewrites · 4 years

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Fic: Never Let It Fade Away

Relationship: Adrien Agreste | Chat Noir & Marinette Dupain-Cheng | Ladybug

Characters: Adrien Agreste | Chat Noir, Marinette Dupain-Cheng | Ladybug

Tags: Sexual Harassment, Light Angst, Talking, difficult conversations, Friendship, Platonic Relationships, Sad Adrien Agreste | Chat Noir, Honesty, Types of love, actual Very Good Friends Ladybug and Chat Noir, he's her idiot little brother, They’re messes but at least they're messes together, Brother-Sister Relationships, Moving On, Partnership, Salt, Sugar, THEY’RE DOING THEIR BEST, Post-Episode: s03 Miracle Queen (The Battle of the Miraculous Part 2), Adrien salt, but only a tinge

Summary: Ladybug notices Chat seems withdrawn in the weeks following Miracle Queen, and they have a much-needed talk. Directly connected to "Catch a Falling Star."

Notes: Been meaning to write this for a while, as a follow-up to the conversation between Chat and Marinette in “Catch a Falling Star.” This conversation is what Kagami was referencing in “Love Language,” though she doesn’t know everything about it. No, there’s not Adrienette or Ladynoir endgame in this fic series, but Marigami/Kagaminette. There may be more one-shots between this one and “Love Language” that pop up to show the movement toward that.

AO3 link

Part of the Catch a Falling Star series | Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3

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She was embarrassed to admit how long it took her to notice Chat seemed withdrawn, even pensive. Everything had happened all at once—the expulsion, giving up on Adrien, Miracle Queen, the loss of Fu… Chat was her partner and she’d failed to even think about him.

The realization hit her on patrol one night; it felt like he was looking through her, his smile similar to Adrien’s model smile in its falseness.

“Chat, are you doing okay?” she asked when they reached the Eiffel Tower, their last stop of the night.

He started, looking at her wide-eyed for a moment.

“A lot has happened,” she continued, “and I’ve been so focused on the changes, I haven’t checked to see how you’re doing. You seem… withdrawn.”

He looked away, up at the stars winking above them, partly drowned out by the light pollution of the city. The sigh he let out was almost resigned.

“I’ve… been thinking a lot,” he said after nearly thirty seconds of uncomfortable silence had passed between them. “A while back, I had a conversation with Marinette Dupain-Cheng; you know her, right?”

Ladybug nodded, feeling awkward to have him talk about her true self like that.

“I saw her crying on her balcony, stopped to check on her. She was going through some things at school. And one of the things she mentioned was a friend being sexually harassed.”

Her mouth went dry at that; his body language, hunched in slightly, his faux tail curled around his leg… She wasn’t sure where he was going with this. Had he been harassed? As Chat? As his civilian self? Was he hurt?

“I… after what that one Félix kid pulled—the one you punched?—I just…”

He looked up then, and she was startled to see tears in his eyes.

“I’ve harassed you. And I am so so sorry I put you through that. I’m sorry I made you uncomfortable, and if you want to punch me too, I know I deserve it.”

Her mind whirled, relief at the fact that he wasn’t a victim, shock at his belief he’d victimized her. She’d been irritated with his flirting, sure, but she’d never considered it sexual harassment.

When she reached forward, he flinched slightly, as though expecting that punch. Instead she grasped his shoulder.

“Chat, I punched him because he tried to kiss me and I didn’t trust him to stop when I told him no. You’ve always given me time to say no, and you’ve always respected my answer. You’ve never tried to force yourself on me. I trust you.”

His body tremored under her hand.

“I looked up sexual harassment, though,” he said. “And I kept asking, kept bothering you to go out on a date, kept flirting when you when you said to stop, and I keep making you say no when once should be enough. I’m horrible.”

“No, you’re not. Don’t talk about my partner that way.”

She sighed softly when he looked away.

“You… Look, I’ve been irritated at times. Like when you do it while we’re fighting Akumas. And, well, it’s hard. You’re one of my best friends, and I know how you feel, and I wish I felt the same. But I’ve never felt sexually harassed by you. Ever.”

Chat glanced up again, his gaze uncertain. “Really?”

“Really. I won’t deny that it sucks to have to turn you down, because I hate hurting you. I do love you, just not like how you want me to.” She squeezed his shoulder. “I want you to be happy, Chaton. And I worry that being stuck on me, you’ll miss out on someone wonderful.”

He quirked a wry smile, the meaning obvious.

Ladybug sighed softly. “I’m not as wonderful as you think I am, you know. I’m a mess, especially outside the mask. But your friendship has meant so much to me; I’d be a much bigger mess in the mask if not for you.”

She was glad to see his smile turn more genuine at that.

“Until this year, I didn’t really have friends,” she continued. “I was actually bullied pretty badly. And I almost quit being Ladybug in the beginning. I would have, if not for you. You, and this, helped me gain confidence.”

“I didn’t have friends until this year, either.” There was wonderment in Chat’s voice at finding they had this in common. “I don’t have a lot of social experience. It’s really made it hard to make friends—and you were one of my first real ones, too. My only friend before that was… well, she’s pretty awful. I used to watch movies and TV and imagine I was friends with the characters.”

Though that information was new, Ladybug also wasn’t surprised.

“That’s where you got your ideas about romance, isn’t it?”

At his nod, she sighed again. She gestured at the beam they were standing on, and was glad when Chat took a seat, letting one of his legs hang over. She sat beside him, crossing her legs, getting comfortable.

“Chat, so many of the relationships portrayed in TV and movies are super toxic or even abusive.”

His ears flicked back, and he looked chagrined. “Yeah, I learned that when I was looking up sexual harassment.”

It had clearly been an upsetting realization for him. Probably it had really challenged what he thought he knew about the world.

“It’s not really your fault,” she told him. “A lot of people our age don’t know. We’re young and we live in a society that normalizes that stuff. I’ve been… not great myself at it. I’ve engaged in toxic behavior myself. Toward the person I had a crush on.”

“You did? But you’re so professional, LB.”

His surprise made her wince.

“Yeah, but I’m human, too. And we’re both, what? Fourteen? Fifteen? I’ve done things I’m not proud of. Like stalkery things, a lot worse than what you’ve done flirting with me. And I ultimately decided I needed to let my crush go.”

Chat’s mouth opened, then closed. “Why?” he finally asked.

That was a complicated question to answer.

“Well, who’s to say I wouldn’t be just as toxic in a relationship with him, for one,” she said softly. “But also… I’ve been through a lot in my real life lately. And the crush started to fade as a result. A friend was growing closer to him so… I let him go. I don’t even know if I’m ready for a romantic relationship at all right now. Things as a civilian are difficult right now. And maybe I need time to figure myself out first, you know?”

After a short pause, Chat nodded. “I understand. A friend… In my life, a friend of mine has expressed interest in dating me. And I’m just not sure. I don’t know if I feel that way about her, and I’m afraid of hurting her. And…” He glanced at her. “Well, you’re not wrong. I’ve been holding out for you, which hasn’t been fair to you.”

“To either of us,” Ladybug amended. “Chat, you’re one of my first friends, my most important friend, my partner. I’m an only child, and it’s like through you I’ve gained a brother.” She quirked a smile. “A dorky, pun-loving little brother.”

He laughed. “Hey, maybe I’m older than you! You don’t know!”

“You act younger, so my headcanon has you as the little brother,” she retorted with a giggle.

It was nice to see him laugh. Hangdog looks had no place on a cat. But Ladybug knew there was more that needed to be said, that they needed to get out. None of this was easy, but she’d learned that the necessary conversations rarely were. She was glad it wasn’t a school night, that they had time for it.

“Sometimes… I was worried you didn’t want to be my friend,” she confessed. “Because you wanted more. And I’m not really good with self-confidence.”

“No…” The look on Chat’s face was one of horror. “I absolutely value your friendship, and I’m so glad I met you. It’s…” He looked down for a moment. “This is dumb, but I like this trope in movies and shows and anime, the friends to lovers one?”

He seemed to be struggling for words, but Ladybug knew the one he was talking about.

“Oh, so like superhero partners and friends, like the idea of destiny sort of thing?”

“Yeah, that. Dumb, right?”

She shoved his shoulder with her fist, a fake punch, much different from the one Félix had gotten—and for good reason, as Chat was nothing like that horrible brat.

“Maybe a little, but only because real life is way different from that, you ridiculous weeaboo.”

Chat actually giggle-snorted, sending Ladybug into a giggle-fit that left her wheezing.

When they had recovered, Chat offered a sad smile.

“You know, I wonder if I’m in love with ideas more than anything,” he said softly. “Like… this isn’t how I act in real life. I’d share more, but identity stuff. I’m able to be me as Chat more than anywhere else. And I guess I’m scared people in my real life love the idea of me instead of who I am. But I’ve been doing that to you, too, haven’t I?”

She smiled back. “Probably. As I said, I’m a total spacey mess in my real life. Can’t share more, same reason. And I think I did that to the boy I liked, too. So you’re not alone there, either.”

“We’re both messes, LB. We can be messes together. In, you know, a platonic way.”

“Thanks, minou.”

They sat in companionable silence for a while. Eventually, she lay back on the beam to stargaze, and he mirrored her movement from the other side, until their heads were beside each other.

“Do you really hate it when I call you Bugaboo? And m’lady?” he finally asked.

Ladybug hesitated for a moment. “Well, hate is a strong word… Friends make up nicknames for each other, after all. It just felt like you were calling me those like as a potential girlfriend.”

“Well… kind of. But more because they’re pretty awesome puns on Ladybug.”

She turned and stared at him. He was smirking.

“You know how much I love those, right?”

“Oh my god you are an idiot.”

“But I’m your idiot little brother.”

Ladybug groaned, almost sorry she mentioned that. But at the same time, it seemed they could turn over a new leaf, create the partnership and friendship they both needed.

“Thanks for checking in on me, Bugs. I don’t think I’d have ever gotten the courage to apologize otherwise.”

She snorted at the new nickname, reaching up to awkwardly ruffle his hair. She was rewarded with a purr. “No problem, mon petit frérot. We both needed to talk.”

She relaxed, watching the moon slice across the stars as time passed them by, relieved that at least this part of her life was in the process of being healed.

#miraculous ladybug #miraculous fanfiction #my fanfiction #ladybug #chat noir #adrien salt #but very minor #adrien sugar #post-miracle queen #miraculous salt #ml salt

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