#I loved the way Diana was characterized in WW | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

teatin · 5 years

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Character personalities bounce around so much in comics (especially over decades), that it's hard to say there is any definitive characterization of a particular character. But is there is any particular characterization that you think Steve Trevor is, or should be? I've read several different opinions on Diana, as she's the hero, but few on Steve. Fewer than on Lois, but then that's probably largely because of his changed role in the post-Crisis era.

This is going to be very long, so buckle up, my friends.

(Also, some of these arguments apply more to Post-Flashpoint which has become the designated canon in my mind, rather than Pre-Crisis. Post-Crisis Steve Trevor on the other hand is a whole different creature altogether.)

I think my preferred characterization of Steve Trevor is already his canon characterization in most comics and media (of course, considering the nature of comic book characters, there are bound to be aberrations here and there, but the essence of Steve Trevor as a character has remained more or less the same across the multiverse, even if his importance in WW mythos fluctuated depending on the writer), but I’m going to give you a detailed run-down anyway. Here is my ideal characterization of Steve Trevor:

First of all, any Steve Trevor that’s gonna be worth my time (and Diana’s) needs to be, without a doubt, a good man. I absolutely cannot stress this enough. I don’t understand those who want to give Diana a boorish, sexist love interest just so she can show what a feminist character she is by teaching him to be less of an asshole. Maybe instead of going the hamfisted route of giving her a jerkass love interest so she can preach feminism to him (and by extension, the audience), pair her up with a genuinely good man who looks at her like she hung the moon and absolutely, wholeheartedly adores her. Because if Diana is truly meant to be a feminist character (and she is), she would’ve never settled for anything less in the first place.

More importantly, Steve Trevor doesn’t just have to be a good man, he needs to represent humanity at its best. He may make mistakes, he may stumble and fall, but in the end, his moral compass sets him true North again. I’ve always believed that it is extremely important for the first man Diana meets to be a good person. The whole essence of Diana’s first meeting with Steve Trevor is that this woman, upon seeing an outsider stumble upon her shores, despite her sisters’ misgivings and preconceived notions about men, despite all their faults and failings she must’ve no doubt been told of, chooses to save his life simply because he’s wounded and dying and that’s what she does. Along the way, she becomes attracted to his kindness and his commitment to do what is right and is inspired to help. Make no mistake, I firmly believe that Diana would’ve left Themyscira to become mankind’s champion sooner or later, with or without Steve’s intervention, but meeting him was still a pivotal moment in her hero origin story. If Steve wasn’t portrayed as a brave, noble man, the story wouldn’t have the same effect. If he were a dick, Diana would have looked like a fool trusting an outsider instead of listening to the wiser counsel of her sisters, thus reinforcing the Amazons’ isolationist way of life. If he were an asshole, Diana’s decision to follow him to Man’s World would just look like she ran away with the first pretty man she saw instead of his courage inspiring her to fight for what is right.

Secondly, Steve Trevor needs to... not have any superpowers. And by extension, he needs to be perfectly fine with Diana swooping in to save his ass. Basically, he needs to be the epitome of anti-toxic masculinity. I’ve written at length about this from a narrative standpoint (more to be found in my #wondertrev meta tag), about how subversive it is to have Diana be physically stronger than Steve, who is a soldier, so basically she’s better than him at not only what is considered the traditionally “masculine” trait, but also the one thing he’s supposed to be good at, and yet he adores her for it. It’s so refreshing to see a couple challenging gender roles in the superhero genre of all things. Because if you see nothing wrong with Superman saving Lois Lane and carrying her bridal style but laugh about Diana doing the same for Steve, congratulations, you have some sexist double standards to sort out, because they’re the exact same goddamn thing.

From an in-universe standpoint, I like Steve Trevor as a normal human because despite his vulnerabilities as a mortal man, he matches Diana’s gumption and tenacity to do what is right. They may not be evenly matched in physical strength, but they share the same strength of spirit, and I do believe that is something that drew Post-Flashpoint Diana and Steve to each other. If Steve, a human man prone to injury and death, is doing his best to help make this world a better place, then Diana, an Amazon warrior goddess with superpowers at her disposal has no reason to do anything less. Gods and aliens and metahumans saving the world? That’s natural, they have the means to do so after all. Ordinary humans doing their best for a good cause despite their tiny efforts going up against insurmountable odds? Sis appreciates that much more, methinks.

Lastly, I want a Steve Trevor who is open about his feelings. A Steve Trevor who never hesitates to tell Diana how much he loves her every chance he gets. A Steve Trevor who can be Diana’s constant when the world seems so changeable and uncertain. A Steve Trevor who can be there for her when she comes home and takes off her armor. Someone she can be vulnerable with. Someone who sees her as a person, not a princess or a warrior or a superhero. Someone who loves her privately, intimately, in a way the world will never get to see.

That being said, that last part is just me waxing poetic about my ship. I don’t think a romantic relationship with Diana is a requirement for a well-written Steve Trevor. These two are important to each other regardless of the nature of their relationship, and any version that downplays their bond just because they’re not lovers is sorely missing the point. I have a lot more to say about their relationship (romantic or platonic), but alas, this is getting too long. I’ll save it for my next long-winded meta.

If you’ve read this far, I applaud your commitment. I’d say I’m sorry but I’m really not.

#wondertrev #wonder woman #steve trevor #ask #long post #wondertrev meta

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crimsonsoulpower · 6 years

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Justice League review -

Justice League rant/review - 6/10

I honestly expected to like it less than I did because reviews have been so aggressively negative. I don't trust the critics but they on still level have an impact on some level.

Anyway,

Cons-

◆ Joss Whedon. You'll know those scenes when you see them. 😕

◆ Run time - They essentially chopped off a third of the movie. If it doesn't make as much as it's expected to, it's on WB execs not on director.

◆ Cyborg's CGI is as bad as it looks in the trailers.

◆ You can see the moustache removal in one of the scenes.

◆ Cowl from BvS provided more mobility, it got a bit clunky in one of the fight scenes? I might be nit picking but whatever.

◆ Villain is meh. He's formidable but his character isn't fleshed out much (cos run time). Anyway, you've seen worse villains and probably didn't even notice, won't be a problem most likely. Not as bad as they're making him sound.

Pros -

◆ Actors. They have great screen presence and chemistry. I wouldn't mind watching an hour of them just talking.

◆ Characterizations and interactions.

◆ Equal focus on pretty much everyone.

◆ Characters got as good introduction and development as is possible in a movie this short.

◆ My ships. Hahahahaha. Especially Superbat!

◆ Superbat!

◆ Bruce channeling the tired dad feel. He's so humanized and I fucking love it.

◆ Aquaman lasso scene.

◆ Pretty much every scene with Barry.

◆ Bruce being so damn obvious with his crush.

◆ Bruce's sugar daddy antics.

◆ Aquaman taking off his clothes in front of Bruce.

◆ Bruce really wanting to know whether Arthur could talk to fishes.

◆ Diana leading! 💖

◆ Mentions of WonderTrevor. 💔😭

◆ Linear and coherent plot. I haven't read one comic but I had no issue following and understanding the story. Tho I'm pretty sure I missed Easter eggs and references.

◆ Whedon aside, drama and humour are balanced pretty good.

◆ It feels like watching live action version of JL Animated series.

◆ Everything I could have asked for, except the runtime.

◆ Post credits scenes.

◆ Makes you wanna watch it again and want for their solo films.

I might be biased because I grew up watching JLAU and it's very similar to that. There's no way I wouldn't like it.

Wonder Woman is a better movie but I legit had more fun watching it. If it weren't for the exams, I would watch it again. If they had allowed Snyder's cut to be theatrical cut, it would've been better than WW.

Eventually the good outweighs the bad by a huge fucking margin. You'll most likely leave the theatre smiling like I did. 😊

#justice league spoilers #justice league #bruce wayne #clark kent #diana prince #arthur curry #barry allen #victor stone #batman #superman #wonder woman #aquaman #cyborg #flash #superbat #thank you zach snyder

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iokoye · 6 years

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wonder woman and black panther :)

oh word!!

-- wonder woman --favorite female character: i literally love all of the female characters in the movie but it’d be a crime for me not to say diana princefavorite male character: steve trevor’s characterization in the movie adaptation of ww.... i love one straight man and it is him least favorite female character: dr. poison?? i mean i’m a sucker for female villains but she’s the only unlikeable female character of the movie if we’re looking at it from a moral standpoint jdhfdhleast favorite male character: um... i didn’t really like the antagonist, ares. the actor was great but the fact that we could see his mustache through his helmet during the final battle made me so uncomfortable plus i never really thought abt him when he was off screen. to me he just didn’t feel like a big threat which is.. not the case in the movie but [insert “that’s my opinion” vine]favorite ship: while straight ships have never clicked with me and i prefer to ship something unexisting like pairing hippolyta/antiope with a random amazon warrior - diana x steve was really cute and i’m upset at how it endedleast favorite ship: idk if they were going there but doctor poison and luddendorff mayhaps. if that’s like a thing it can choke movie rating: 8/10!!! NOT GAY ENOUGH MISS PATTY/DC, DIANA IS BISEXUAL, GIVE US THE CONTENT WE DESERVE -- black panther aka the movie that created marvel itself --favorite female character: once again i love all the female characters but... okoye.. my sweet lesbian daughter you deserved so much...favorite male character: again, it’d be a crime for me not to say t’challa least favorite female character: not much to go by!! all the female characters were amazing least favorite male character: you expect me to say that sleazy bastard klaue but i just don’t like ross. not only is the actor trash but he’ll always be a hobbit to me and he should’ve stayed that way and never have any roles again ever favorite ship: have i mentioned how okoye is a lesbian and in love with ayo or what least favorite ship: um okoye and w’kabi made absolutely no sense they had ZERO chemistry and not once was he faithful to her. he only [redacted] at the end of the movie bc they were losing and she was abt to fucking impale him movie rating: 8.5/10 it was... pretty good not gonna lie. i’m still pissed that marvel has the ugly ass habit to cut every gay scene out of their movies but i was sitting at the edge of my seat throughout the entire movie i just loved it so much send me a tv show/ movie!!

#thank you for asking ily!!#answered #bp spoilers #obroden

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evangelineartemiasamos · 7 years

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Do you think wonder woman would've had less of a white feminism problem had a woc been hired as director instead of Patty Jenkins? I loved the movie, but im tired of being told by white women to wait our turn to be represented in popular media and that ww is a step forward for all of us, even though woc were missing from almost the entirety of the movie and a lot of recent movies with female leads (Ghostbusters, rogue one, tfa) have little to no woc or only have them there for comic relief.

I don’t know. TBH, I can’t relate to your problem of not feeling representated because I’m not personally concerned, nor can I know what you wish for. I can read about the concerns of WOC regarding Wonder Woman. But how should I know who to blame? I have no idea what went on during the casting and while it should’ve been more progressive, I would blame the script as well. The only women with real character arcs are Diana, Dr. Maru and Hippolyta, to a point. There are other amazons but they’re out of the story soon enough and only the English secretary shows up afterwards. If you look at it this way, the movie doesn’t do that much for feminism because it only depicts an almighty female superhero - which is wonderful in itself. I’ve read some commentaries about WW on a German site and some asshole users wrote that they wouldn’t watch WW because “it’s too feminist”, or even saying, “women can’t be superheroes, they’re physically weak”, while superhero movies should be the one genre to ignore that kind of misogyny.

So, regarding there’s still a long way to go, I think WW does its job, but it’s not perfect on all regards, by no means. It doesn’t show women unlike Diana (apart from the badly characterized villain), be it for their ethnicities, strengths, preferences, religions, weaknesses etc. Diana doesn’t even have weaknesses. Another Wonder Woman movie should certainly take a different direction, but while a sequel might do better with ethnic diversity, I can only hope for so much in a superhero movie which lives for special effects.

#wonder woman #ask #representation #feminism #white feminism #tbh i see white feminsim as less than a problem but more as a lacking #white feminism is ignorant but that doesn't mean the concerns of privileged women are wrong to be tackled #criticism

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blueraith · 7 years

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(About your Wonder Woman post) But isn't there a lot of female superheroes already? I mean, Wonder Woman isnt the first or last girl hero idolized. I havent seen that video, but I think the guys were trying to say they don't get why WW should be a bigger role model than any other hero. Or why girls strictly need girl heroes to look up to? I always liked Black Widow... I'm trying to understand how you see hero movies as sexist, because I'm a fan of those movies and I dont see the connection.

The hero movies themselves aren’t sexist. It’s the response to female hero movies, what few there are as well as the ones that are upcoming, that are sexist.

That’s mostly what I’m talking about. There are a good amount of female superheroes, but so many of them are merely female versions of preexisting male superheroes. Batwoman, Supergirl, Spider-Woman. There are a paltry few original female superheroes in comparison. Black Widow, Jean Grey, Wonder Woman. Those three are really the few in the public’s mind when they think ‘original female superhero,’ because female superheroes don’t get a lot of attention. They don’t get their own movies, and they rarely get their own TV shows. Most of the time female superheroes, of any type whether original or rebranded, are secondary characters in a male superhero’s movie.

Wonder Woman is lauded as a bigger hero for a few reasons. First and foremost, she’s Wonder Woman. She’s iconic all on her own for being one of the Big Three in the Justice League, being the most famous female superhero, and her TV show from the 70s. That’s an achievement list that the vast majority of female superheroes just can’t live up to. Second, she’s the titular character of the first successful female superhero movie. In fact, there really isn’t a long list of female lead action movies in general. Third, the movies was just plain good. It characterized Diana as a strong female character without forcing too many masculine traits on her. That, I think, was important. It have her a chance to fight and be tough and warrior like, but at the same time didn’t shy away from the fact that she is a woman. She loves babies and is soft and caring to her friends and family, and can be quite feminine when she wants to be. It’s a bit of a trope for a ‘strong female character’ to basically be a man in women’s clothing.

But, that really isn’t what those guys were talking about. They were specifically targeting fictional heroes and I think, they missed the point. It wasn’t just Wonder Woman, it was the fact that she was a fiction, half-deity, Amazonian princess, and they wondered why anyone would look up to that as a role model when they should look up to the director or a real person.

And on the surface, that seems like a legitimate question. Why not look up to a real person as a role model? I mean, Diana isn’t a real person, she’s a half-Amazon deity who has superpowers, what could you really learn from her?

But what can you learn from Superman or Batman? What can you learn from Obi-Wan Kenobi? What can you learn from any fictional character who is less than realistic? Of course no one is saying that Wonder Woman is a role model that children can reasonably and literally strive to be. You can’t grow up and develop or attain god-like powers. That isn’t the point of having a fictional hero.

And these guys completely missed that point. It isn’t what Diana is that is important for girls to look up to. It is what she does. In terms of her motivations. Not her superpowered actions, but her human ones. How she feels, what she thinks, the choices she makes, her beliefs. Those are what is admirable by children or anyone looking for a fictional role model. There is nothing wrong with having one. It is, I think, why we connect to fictional characters in the first place. Because we admire what we see in them and wish that their actions could be emulated in the real world by others or ourselves.

I’m not saying that Wonder Woman needs to be everyone’s favorite female superhero. She honestly wasn’t mine until I saw this movie. She’s the most well known at what she does, but I’m fairly certain that there’s a good argument that she’s not the best at being the greatest female superhero. I’m very favorable to Batwoman myself. I just think that the reason Wonder Woman achieved such viral note over this past summer is because of her movie, and people kind of took to her. It’s a damn good movie.

I’m also not saying that superhero movies are sexist. The men reacting to them are. Ask a guy if he wants to see a Black Widow movie made. Most of the ones online will say something like, ‘she doesn’t have enough of a backstory to sustain one on her own.’ I see it all the time on Reddit. And it’s bullshit because Black Widow won’t have a backstory unless someone fucking writes her one. That’s literally all that needs to be done to get her story that can be told in a movie. Write her damn story. But, instead, she’s used as a secondary character in everyone else’s movie.

‘Why are there women main characters in everything now?’

That’s the question people had with Ep VII when Rey was revealed to be the Jedi. When Rogue One was coming out. When that new Star Wars cartoon staring mostly female characters aired.

Captain Marvel was pushed back in favor of Ant Man 2.

Some men thought that Wonder Woman was pushing the lesson that men are inferior to women. Like. ????? What movie did they go see?

There is a ton of talk about this from men, over why women should have felt this, or thought that, after this movie came out. Criticism that women shouldn’t be so gung-ho about this movie because it’s just Wonder Woman. She’s not even real. What’s the big deal?

Because they don’t get it. They don’t get what it means to be starved of representation, of seeing your fictional heroes on the big screen, or celebrating them the same way men and boys get to do every day since Hollywood first existed.

It isn’t that Wonder Woman is the best female superhero that needs to be idolized above all others. She merely brought this lingering and ugly sentiment that women shouldn’t have any female superheroes to look up to, to light. It’s been in the background for years. I’ve argued this sentiment for a long time on old message boards, back when vBulletin was the most popular forum format. I used to ask why women couldn’t star in more movies or video games. And I was told, time and again, that women couldn’t carry a story on their own. That Hollywood was marketing to their most common denominator. That men wouldn’t want to play or watch something with a woman in it. Because women weren’t funny enough, or badass enough, or great enough. That men were better at these things than women are.

Wonder Woman is important, and she’s currently talked up right now, because she earned fucking $800 million dollars. Everyone saw this movie. This movie proved every single solitary thing those assholes used to tell young BlueRaith on those message boards she used to argue on. And it’s great. I am simultaneously angry at these assholes who are so surprised and freaked out right now while overjoyed that they’re freaking out. Because they were wrong.

The movies aren’t sexist. But many of the reviewers, commentators, fans, and trolls surrounding them are.

#Wonder Woman #sexism #there is a huge overlap in superhero fandoms and gaming fandoms #both are quite sexist and exhausting to deal with #Anonymous

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hellsbellschime · 7 years

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I agree why is giving Steve actual characteristics considered a bad thing?? The reason I loved WW is because I felt that all the characters had personalities of their own. No one felt flat or one-dimensional and they could have easily made them that way. But they chose to actually flesh them out.

LOL I have no idea. Characterization isn’t a zero sum game, so it’s not like making him a real character somehow detracted from Diana or from the story line. Also like, kinda glad that Diana’s main love interest wasn’t just the first dude she happened to come across? Like there are actual reasons why they stick together and become attracted to each other? And he’s a good looking, brave, accomplished guy instead of just an average Joe? Like she’s fucking WONDER WOMAN, it’s not that wild that she’d be attracted to someone who’s strong and interesting.

#wonder woman for ts #Anonymous

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wilmawrites · 7 years

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I loved Steve Trevor. Chris Pine was charming and fun and really enjoyable to watch. But mostly, I was impressed with how well WW treated the role of the love interest as a character in their own right. Some of it really did feel like male ego stroking though.

WW went out of its way to reassure (probably male) fans “don’t worry. I know that she’s the title character, but look, he’s a tough man who you can project yourself onto. He’s important and powerful in his own way and very relevant to the plot.” That’s why in his very first real conversation with Diana, he establishes how he’s “above average.” It’s why we have to know that he sleeps with lots of women. It’s why he’s a love interest who gets his own plot in the climactic fight and not just a single moment. (Think of Peggy shooting a person to save Steve Rogers or Pepper pushing the button to blow the arc reactor. His moment was separate from and distinct from Diana’s fight while most love interests’ contributions are an assist for the hero.) It’s why he gets to fight and shoot and have his own heroic moments of badassery. He gets backstory on his family and has moments of vulnerability and an established group of friends who would die for and with him.

I love that Steve got to have so much depth and development. I want all love interests to follow his mold. I just wish that female love interests in superhero movies got the same treatment. (I really don’t know if his characterization was the result of Patty, or if it was the result of the male screenwriters and story liners just naturally treating a male character with more respect and consideration)

#in which I ramble with no respect for coherency or flow #it's just something I really want to talk about #I love Steve Trevor #and am mad that he got so much respect and consideration #while characters like Hope or Peggy or Sharon or Jane don't get that consideration #Wonder Woman spoilers #Wonder Woman #maybe I'll come back to this and edit it into some intelligent #but right now I have a headache and want to nap #I just wanted to get my thoughts down first #personal problems

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resnullius-bells · 4 years

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Like I said on my Woman: Dead Earth post, I’m getting back into comics and I decided Wonder Woman #750 looked like a good way to do it. Spoilers under the cut; the original post is here in my dreamwidth.

But to summarize it for those that might be thinking of reading it: Diana goes around showing her female villains she loves them and inspires people to step up, two of my favorite things about Wonder Woman (along with the gratuitous bondage, which also makes a few appearances!). The art was gorgeous, overall, and it's made me regret that I already posted a bunch of Diana's icons here LOL.

The first story, The Wild Hunt Finale, is a wrap up from the previous arc (which I know nothing about). The Cheeta/Diana feels were strong in this one, between Diana’s wish to help her at all costs and Minerva’s goal of freeing Diana from the gods. And I love when Wonder Woman writers remember bondage is a cornerstone of the character LMAO, and they went all in here, with Diana using the lasso on Minerva and her submitting. Anyway, now Diana will do her own missions independent from the Pantheon, or something. And when she gets back home to Boston she gets arrested. IDK why, but who knows if it’s because it’s the first new WW comic I read in years, or because it’s a new plot twist.

From Small Things, Mama by Gail Simone (hi Gail, I really need to see what else you’ve written these past few years. Also, please, come back to the Iron Man run, pretty please) has Diana help Peony (little girl with flower powers) rescue kids from a fire. Then Peony’s family invites Diana to dinner. Then her mother appears and SHE gets invited to dinner, after telling Diana her giant shark friend is dead. They all bond and comfort each other. It’s all very cute, art included, but Diana says the phrase “I’m only human” and it’s weird as hell LOL.

The Interrogation puts us back to the arrest (I think? It’s not clear, or I’m sleep-deprived. One of those two). It was all an Ares plot. Diana thwarts it. Hooray (I’m still slightly bitter about 2017’s WW plot twist).

The next story, Never Change, happens in NOLA, during Mardis Gras, where everyone is dressed like superheroes. Circe and Diana have a date (well, a girl can dream, at least); Diana wants Circe to do some mysterious spell, and Circe wants her lasso in exchange (not the lasso Diana!!). Then we cut to Cheeta, who’s being worshipped in some sort of cave. Diana interrupts to tell her that she loves her (this issue is being very good to me so far) and they fight. Turns out what Diana wanted from Circe was to restore Minerva to herself, but she refused. The fate of the lasso is left in the air, to my chagrin.

A story with young Diana in Themyscira just before Steve crashes there, To Leave Paradise, follows. I love the art and the characterization in this one, with Diana’s curiosity about the outside world.

The next one, Emergency Visit, is… weird. Diana’s body looks cartoonish and disproportionate. Guy Garner has a cameo, because sometimes comics just hate me, I guess. Hippolyta lured a Hydra to have an excuse to bring Diana home, and spends the comic mothering her.

AND THEN COMES THE BOMBSHELLS STORY (known as “every female superhero fought the nazis in WW2 and was super gay in the meantime”). I should reread and finish that run, it was lovely. Anyway, To Me has characters talking about how important Diana is to them (Kate, Steve, Mera, Kara… so non-villain people I ship her with, plus the Wonder Girls). It has a very touching speech about grief from Diana too.

Then we get a story about Diana’s relationship with Vanessa/Silver Swan -yet another antagonist I ship her with (it’s not my fault if Diana goes around declaring love to all her female villains, and make it so that they love her back but want to hurt her at the same time. The tragedy gets to me). In Always Vanessa remembers their battle while she recovers in a facility, waiting for Diana’s visit. They hug it out and it’s nice.

The last story, A Brave New World, has Diana in 1939 saving the president from an assassination attempt. It’s all narrated by Alan Scott and about how important Diana is for humanity.

All in all I really enjoyed myself with this one, and I think it was a good point to jump back in.

#wonder woman #wonder woman comics #wonder woman 750 #diana prince #diana of themyscira #wednesday spoilers #resnullius speaks #original post #text post #dc

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teatin · 5 years

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what are your thoughts on wonder woman bloodlines so far?

I’m certainly intrigued. At first I was disappointed that it would be another origin story, especially since the only other animated WW solo movie was already an origin story, but then I thought, 1) that one was so, so terrible and so divorced from the source material it might as well not be a WW movie, and her origin deserves a proper, semi comic accurate retelling at least once, and 2) if Batman’s origin story has been told so many times that there exists multiple compilation videos on Youtube of his parents getting shot across all types of media, then WW getting a second origin movie isn’t going to kill anyone.

It’s no secret that DCAMU’s characterization of Diana has pissed me off for a long, long time. It represents everything I hate in a badly-written WW: an impulsive, violent, emotionally-stunted, stereotypical barbarian warrior woman who attacks first and asks questions later, and whose aggressive attitude is perceived as a sign that she’s a „strong female character”. Her struggling to connect with Lois over anything but their shared love for the same man (WW, failing the Bechdel test in the year of our Lord 2019) and admitting that she has few female friends and finds it hard to open up with them emotionally remains one of the worst scenes that the DCAMU has given us and haunts me to this day.

However, I did watch the sneak peek for Bloodlines and was pleasantly surprised to find that they’re emphasizing Diana’s kindness and heart in addition to her physical badassery, so that’s encouraging. I’m also so excited for her interactions with Steve and Etta (the 2009 movie bastardized their dynamic into a disgusting quasi-love triangle, a fact I try every day not to think about). About fucking time the core Wonderfam members got the recognition they deserve. It also helps that I approve of pretty much everything they’ve said about Steve and Diana’s relationship. @ people about to call me out for preemptively liking this movie because it features romantic!Steve/Diana: you are absolutely right and I am not sorry.

I also love that they’re adapting the Post-Crisis WW origin with her living with the Kapatelises but without the gross parts (her being a young, innocent babe in the woods with a „virginal” crush on Superman, who is in a committed relationship with someone else and will never see her that way. For real I don’t understand why George Perez thought a romance with Steve was supposedly anti-feminist but then decided WW nursing an unrequited crush on the strongest, manliest man ever and being sad that she’ll never measure up to this other woman because she has that man’s affections is something WW fans want to see.)

As for stuff I’m less thrilled about: I’m not sure this movie attempting to stuff half of WW’s rogues’ gallery into 70-something minutes is such a great idea, and I fear the other villains might either take the focus off Silver Swan, or end up half assed themselves. Come on, save some of those bad guys for the next movie.

Edit: I forgot there was one scene in the sneak peek where Hippolyta catches Diana and Steve sneaking off the island and mother and daughter duke it out, swords and all. I know being against Diana leaving Themyscira is kinda a Hippolyta trademark personality trait, but for them to clash physically over it? Unless it’s secretly some kind of test, I’m not crazy about it. Though if we must skip the competition, I guess this would be a fine replacement, for the sake of dramatic storytelling, even if I’m not sure it’s in character for Hippolyta.

#ask #anonymous

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pyramidhead316 · 7 years

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On ‘Supergirl’ and toxic relationships.

So, I didn’t know about this sh*tstorm that was going on, until I came across it while reading one of my regular jaunts through Supercorp for the day, since I’ve been steadily working on my Star Wars/Supergirl/Persona crossover and my Silent Hill fic ‘Dark Descent’. (Yes, it’s as crazy as it sounds! ;-D) And I’ve been shocked at the mess that this has turned into it. I’ve read accounts of it on Reddit, where people have blamed the fandom from Supergirl, and said that shippers are toxic to the series. Others have said that people are taking this way too seriously.

Yes, fans may be overreacting to this. I don’t condone threats or very harsh personal insults to the cast, since they have friends and family too. But here’s the thing. We’ve just endured an entire series of one of the worst relationships I have ever seen on screen, with a character that literally makes me, a bi-leaning man, want to see Bane break him. I really wanted Bane to just put in one appearance on ‘Supergirl’, break Mon-El in half, and then leave. :-P Chris Wood is a good man, but he’s been stuck with playing Mon-El, a character who is one of the worst and most boring love interests I’ve ever seen on screen, and who has sucked away nearly everything I loved about the series. He pales to some of the legendary love interests who have been presented for strong female characters in the past. Hell, he pales to James who came before him! And now we’re told that LGBT people, who don’t have enough representation on screen, have to feel diminished and that they’re not worth much to the show, that they have to accept anything thrown their way even if it’s insults, that they have to have their fantasies mocked, by straight people who can never understand even an inkling of what they’re going through (God, I really want to punch some straight people tonight, after reading through that thread on Reddit), and that it’s okay to have a formerly strong female be together with an absolute slime of a man, because God forbid you have another LGBT pairing on the show? Yeah, I don’t blame them for being pissed.

By now, I’m sure we all know what was done. Jeremy Jordan said something stupid at Comic Con, and used a song to turn it into a game. Thereby earning himself and Melissa the ire of about 500,000 fans. :-P Even Gail Simone herself has chipped in on this, bashing rightfully the cast for their idiocy. That we’ve pulled a legendary comic book writer from her important work to comment on this says a lot about this situation. The problem is not that Jordan said Supercorp was never going to happen. We knew it was never going to happen. The problem is that he then turned it into a game, using it to insult the very viewers that support him, and a partial portion of the cast was stupid enough not to shut him down. This would NEVER have been done for a straight pairing, and if you’re a straight person and you believe differently, then you’re a fool and deluded.

First off, let’s be honest: the way Kara and Lena are written on ‘Supergirl’ is queer baiting. I understand this happened a lot on another show, ‘Rizzoli and Isles’, to the detriment of that show’s cast when they personally took to mocking the show’s fans who were hoping for a pairing. A lot of people never forgave them for that. Another reason why I never watched that show, besides my disinterest for police procedurals. I don’t have time for that game. Kara and Lena could easily pass for best friends at first. But the dozens of flowers as gratitude for saving (or trying to save) her reputation? The increasing relying on Kara for support? The fact that Lena and Kara have more chemistry in their little fingers than Melissa and Chris have in their entire bodies, on screen? (Where is this supposedly hot action that Karamel fans see on screen? The words that come to mind are “cold fish”. Now John Crichton and Aeryn Sun – there’s a HOT pairing! And I’m not ashamed to say that as a man.) All this has to be intentional on the part of the writers. The chemistry can be accidental – that happens in sets, but the actors can only work with what they’re given. Mon-El never should have passed beyond his comic relief role as an almost little brother for Kara, and I think the writers realize this. They have no plans for what they want to do with him in the end, but he fits the traditional white bread image of a love interest. Lena and Kara have fantastic chemistry, terrific chemistry, but the writers already have an LGBT pairing on the show, and they can’t afford another one – the censors would eat them alive. So, they write this way, teasing glimpses of something that could be more, in order to keep the LGBT audience watching, knowing that there will never be more. That’s queer baiting. Writing teasing glimpses and touches, in order to give the appearance of a possible gay relationship, knowing that there will never be another gay relationship on the show all the while.

Secondly, some people say that why is it important. Do you wonder why so many fans pair together characters in lesbian or gay relationships? People flock to pairings because there is a dearth of representation on the television. Hetero relationships have NEVER been under-represented on TV, ever. It has been the norm for so long that people have accepted it as the norm, and don’t realize that it’s not everybody’s norm. It’s become so accepted for people to assume that a character is straight that a woman could come in on a show and start flirting with every woman imaginable, and people would still assume she was straight and just playing around, unless she outright said she was gay. The same goes for men. Jonathan Frakes attempted to destroy this with an episode of “Star Trek: The Next Generation” in the 90’s, by wanting a man to play his love interest, showing that love knew no gender, but big surprise, the writers never let him get it passed, out of fear of the censors. If you would just give us more LGBT pairings to root for, we wouldn’t give a crap who Supergirl was with! As it stands, you don’t and you pair her with a man that she would otherwise be advised to dump as soon as possible by most people. It’s the final insult, in a long line of insults. What do you expect to happen!? O_O You can’t keep pushing the LGBT fandom, teasing them and needling them whenever necessary, and not expect some fallback. Yes, sometimes it falls on the actors unfortunately, but you have to understand that a lot of people out there are getting sick of this ‘straight only, white only’ crap out there. I notice that you guys didn’t go deep into Maggie’s background in Blue Springs, because you probably didn’t want to traumatize white viewers watching it. What’s the matter, you don’t want to show how nasty white people can be in a small rural town? o_O (And I say this as someone who’s most favorite protagonists are mostly white (Solid Snake, Alessa Gillespie, Raiden, Anakin Skywalker, Kara, etc. The whities are strong in my fics. ;-P Yet it’s their stories I like, not their skin color.)

Wonder Woman is absolutely, blatantly acknowledged as bisexual in the comics. Why is she not portrayed as blatantly bisexual in the movie? O_O Are you that terrified of the few hundred Christians who will protest the decision, that you don’t want to risk ever giving a hint of it in the film? Oh no, other Amazons can be involved with women, and Diana herself admits that men are useless for pleasure, but God forbid you come out and say that she loves women. And this isn’t an attack on the WW filmmakers, they did the best they could. This is an attack on the mindset in Hollywood that says you can’t make a protagonist gay or bisexual in a strong Summer tentpole movie. Why don’t we have a major gay or bi superhero out there, in full display? Why are we letting the bigots continue to run our entertainment for us? And I hate to see this kind of crap filtering down to the television world, with its series. :-( Some people would say, that we should be grateful we got one LGBT couple, in Alex and Maggie. That’s exactly the point: we shouldn’t have to be grateful for only getting one couple, the scraps of whatever they deem fit to toss us? You may know more gay people in your real life than you see on TV! It’s ridiculous. When are we going to be able to see a woman loving a woman, or a man loving a man, and not have it called a perversion or “sickening” children’s minds? It’s the freakin’ 21st century. Get with the program!

Third, if it had been a man who was Lex Luthor’s brother or son, you can believe the Network would have wanted that they hook up and sleep together in three episodes into the season. You can better believe that would have happened. In fact, it would have been a demand: they would HAVE to sleep together, or the writers would be hearing from the network executives soon. Yet God forbid that a woman has something besides friendship with another woman! :-P Yes, it’s perfectly fine to have women be platonic friends: it’s completely ACCEPTABLE! But that’s not the whole story. Far too often, women’s love has been restrained only towards the friendly, while it was expected that any man they meet up with would immediately turn into the romantic. James, Winn, and Mon-El; three red-blooded men who fall in love with Kara, and want to be with her. Why is it that every time Kara meets a man, it has to be romantic? Yet with Lena, a woman, it’s like, oh no, she has to be a friend only! There’s a blatant double standard there, and you must be a blind man without Daredevil’s enhanced senses if you can’t see it! :-P

What hurts about Jeremy Jordan’s words is that his character was (unfairly) characterized as a Nice Guy (™), and not the one you hope for but the other one (i.e. manipulative asshole), whereas he wasn’t that at all. I think he was a friend who genuinely fell in love with Kara, and then shifted out of it later on. He wasn’t trying to manipulate her feelings, by playing the sensitive companion. But the point is that he, out of all the cast members, should have learned that you have to be careful with what you say, and make sure writers give the right impression. It’s like the actor learned nothing from his own arc! O_O I can almost expect this from James’ actor, because then it would have been characterized as jealousy that his character never got a full romantic arc with Kara, and people are clamoring for one with Lena. But for this to come from Winn’s actor, who should have learned that you have to be careful with what you say, because of his own story, is just incredible to believe. I’m glad the actor who plays J’onn J’onzz is staying out of it. He seems to be the wisest of all the main performers there.

I just find this all sickening. The fact that LGBT fans still have to fight for even the slightest shred of respect, and that the smug straight people call them “immature” or “perverts”, or “toxic” or “obsessed for it”. F*cking bastards. It just makes me sick, and makes me wish to never interact with the ‘normal’ fans ever again. If this is what the ‘normal’ fans look like…I’d rather be with the shippers, thank you very much. :-P

Why are gay people and bi people pissed all the time with TV shows? Because gay people ALL DIE in serious programs!! O_O The Clexa thing is an example. You have a 10 times greater chance of dying in a serious TV show, if you’re a gay person! No happy endings are allowed, no sirree. You have to satisfy the Network’s demands that gay people are a perversion, and deserve to die, even if it’s heroically. Whereas with a straight couple, God forbid they have some fatal trouble in their relationship. :-P Some people dismiss that as an insignificant detail, that some people are obsessed with Lexa. I used to think that way, too. Until they realized the truth. Many, if not most straight protagonists make it through their relationship intact. Gay people don’t.

I’ll be honest, I am not going to be watching the season 3 episode when it first premiers. Not just because of this, but because of all the crap with Mon-El, the lazily scripted arcs, the people acting completely out-of-character for the sake of the plot, the hints of Lena turning evil, and many other things. Mon-El sucked all the joy I found out of watching ‘Supergirl’, and the crap going on around him didn’t help. I didn’t care for watching ‘The Mon-El Show’ week after week, and it just became a chore to watch, week in and week out. Sometimes I even switched over to ‘Dancing With The Stars’, even though the lineup was the worst it had been in several years, because I got bored with ‘Supergirl’. At that point, I’d rather have watched a show about J’onn J’onzz and his little adventures, than turn to follow Kara and Mon-El. :-P I’ll wait about six episodes in, until I make sure that it’s good, before tuning in. It wouldn’t be the first time I abandoned a series. I stopped watching ‘The X-Files’ way before the final episode ever aired, and I gave up on ‘Farscape’ for a brief little while when it was obvious the writers had no idea what they were doing, until they got themselves back on track. (Which they did. Thank God.) I have no trouble easily abandoning a series for a few short episodes, until it sorts itself out. Kara’s strong characterization is gone. The strong sisterly bond she shared with Alex is gone. J’onn’s commanding presence is gone, thanks to being hijacked by Mon-El. Lena is set to be evil, from what it looks like, which would completely take away the grayness of her character and stupidly prove that “You are more than your family” just isn’t true. :-P Cat Grant is sorely missed, because James is no replacement, Snapper is sure as hell no replacement, and as cruel as she was, she brought something to the show which is lacking now. Getting rid of the “strong feminist tones” to satisfy the red-blooded American male, apparently means making it like everything else. There is nothing worth watching on ‘Supergirl’ at this time. That’s the simple truth. Besides the occasional guest starring character; those are always good (i.e. Superman, Mxy, etc.). Unless they’re Daxamite. Then they just suck. :-P I hate to put it this way, but maybe it’ll spur some clarity in some folks. ‘Supergirl’ has become a toxic relationship in itself, expecting you to take whatever crap it dishes out, because hey it’s tradition! – that’s what all the other shows do, and I’m cutting it right now. No one is forced to watch, not even if Melissa’s or Chyler’s acting is excellent, and that’s exactly what I’m going to do, I won’t watch. It’s that simple. :-P Unless the show does some serious redeeming, gets back to strong characterization, and forces Mon-El to show remorse for all of the godawful things he did and his godawful fratboy douchebag personality, I’m not going to come back for what is sure to be a sh*tshow of white privilege and faux-romantic arcs painfully grinding strong women down. I miss the way the show was when CBS used to run it. :-(

The irony? I wished for it to be a part of The CW Arrowverse. I see now that my wish was horribly misguided. :-(

*And I can assure you that Mon-El is going to get the most unholy of beatings in my fic. Nothing personal, but his clownish personality and incompetent fighting skills make me sick, and other heroes that aren’t Kara aren’t going to stand for this crap. Can you imagine Batman training this guy? Holy sh*t, Bruce Wayne would go ballistic! :-P As for Winn, I was going to give him a cute little obsession with Star Wars, once he realized the Jedi were real. Oh no, Serra is going to take him to task now, for some of his more annoying foibles. :-P No mercy for the I.T. Hobbit. (And to think, I used to hate that nickname. No longer. You suck, Jeremy Jordan. Thank you for ruining my pure, innocent image of Winn. :-P)

No anonymous messages bashing my views, please. I automatically delete any anonymous messages I receive on my inbox, on every site I’m on whether they’re positive or negative. :-P

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