#also if you can recognise john as abusive can you also recognise dean as such 🙃🙃 when dean shows more abusive behaviour on screen | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

lulu-zodiac · 3 years

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I feel stupid for this but the prequel really bothers me. Not only are they trying to glorify an abuser (my dad had a lot of similarities with John) but they are once again trying to push this heteronormative love story.

trigger warning: abuse

oh man do I feel this. sending you lots of hugs <3

your feelings about this are SO valid. the stuff with j*hn has always bothered me too because, like you, my dad has a LOT of similarities with him (definitely one of the reasons I've always identified with dean so much, but that's another ted talk).

if they do glorify an abusive parent in the prequel, I will be so upset about it.

BUT I don't think that has to automatically be the outcome just because they're writing about the relationship with j*hn and mary.

in film and media, I feel like abusers are often portrayed as evil, one-dimensional characters and this can actually be counterproductive for victims of abuse, because the reality of it is often more complex than that. I think it would genuinely be helpful to have more exploration in film/tv of the fact that abusers aren't always abusive all the time in every situation, but that they're also complex, often charming, intelligent etc and this is part of what makes them so dangerous.

the popular idea in the media that abusers are just terrible people always doing terrible things is, I think, damaging and unhelpful, as it frequently dismisses the experiences of victims. most victims know their abuser well (e.g. a parent, partner, sibling), and therefore are probably just as familiar with the charming/seemingly positive qualities of their abusers as the negative ones. in portraying abusers as one dimensional villains (as hollywood often does), many victims may feel that the abuse they suffer isn't "bad enough" because their abuser isn't always this evil villain, and may often show moments of love, regret, or understanding towards them.

so yeah. I think this very common portrayal of abusers is just super unhelpful because it doesn't help victims recognise some of the most common types of emotional and physical abuse (e.g. love-bombing combined with emotional/physical violence, parents caring for you while also being abusive), and might go so far as to actually dismiss victims suffering from these experiences. also, significantly, it doesn't help us better understand why people abuse, and therefore how we can help them stop abusing.

I think, from what jensen has said before, and his nuanced portrayal of dean and dean's trauma, that he has the potential to create a show that explores all these important issues in a really interesting way. to explore the different sides of abusive people, how they interact in different relationships, their red flags, and ultimately why they choose to behave the way they do.

that's just my take on it at the moment, I'm trying to be hopeful!

also, just to clarify, because I feel like it's super important to be clear about a topic like this: I am absolutely NOT justifying any kind of abuse. I just think humanising abusers (whilst also recognising how awful, damaging and inexcusable their abuse is) ultimately helps victims more than othering them. but that's just my personal opinion, I'm sure there are plenty of people who have had similar experiences to me who would think totally differently on this, and that's equally valid.

as for it being a heteronormative love story... if that ends up being true, I'll be disappointed, because the media is FULL of heteronormative love stories and honestly? I'd love some better representation. BUT again, it's jensen and danneel, and, as their chaos machine productions logo shows, they are very much a part of the LGBT+ community, so who knows where they'll go with it... (I'm rooting for bi mary, and appearances from cas)

sorry this ended up being such a long-winded answer, portrayal of abusers in the media is just something I feel really strongly about (obviously lol).

I really relate to you struggling with this, I honestly felt pretty triggered by it when I first heard about the prequel, but I feel a little better having had some time to think and organise my thoughts on it all. really hope you're okay, please take the time to look after yourself <3

also, if you ever need someone to talk to about any of this stuff, my asks and my dms are always open, so please don't hesitate to reach out <3

#asks #tw: abuse #spn prequel #supernatural prequel #jensen ackles #spn #supernatural #john winchester #emotional abuse #mental health #cptsd

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boykingsofhell · 3 years

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3,6,20,27,64

3) Describe the different ways in which liminality shifts as a central theme in Supernatural (or a specific arc/character given)

Liminality is super interesting regarding both Winchester brothers because they both straddle the line between the more normal and more deranged brother at different times. Sam is the boy with the demon blood, black eyes and blood dripping down his face, and he is the man with a white picket fence and a house in suburbia. He is the man who left Stanford thinking he had something he could come back to. Dean is dreaming of suburbia and fast cars in the same thought, normality whilst “it was always going to end like this for me” rings through his head. Dean is alienated from a suburban life and his obsession with hunting further alienated himself. Liminality in spn rests so deeply on the boy’s childhood, in the space between scenes where we understand the boys have never had somewhere to come back to. This shifts in season 8 with the introduction of the bunker, but the bunker and their father’s legacy is just a new form of alienation from their family and from “normal” people.

6) Do you have any psychological headcanons (or canon interpretations) of the characters?

Dean has ADHD (you know I’m right, he is whip smart yet struggled in academic settings and can’t keep attention on things that aren’t interesting to him, what does that remind me of???) Cas and Jack are autistic (I love them) and Sam has chronic not-quite-right syndrome in the way he will never let himself or anyone else try to understand.

20) What is your favourite part of season 3?

I am Obsessed with the scene in 3.10 where Dean says “my father was an obsessed bastard! All that crap he dumped on me about protecting Sam, that was his crap. He's the one that couldn't protect his family! I don’t deserve to die, and I don’t deserve to go to hell” or something like that not like I memorised it haha. But anyway it’s such a cathartic scene, Dean simultaneously realising his own self worth AND stopping blaming himself for his father’s actions. I would have loved for spn to contend with this more because it was a great start in an arc of Dean recognising his past and abuse and moving past it, rather than just. never criticising John Winchester again.

27) How do you think the angels fit into the species ecosystem of the Supernatural universe? how do monsters? are monsters grouped together in your mind in some way other than the fact they are hunted?

OK SO I am currently doing my degree in politics AND a class in philosophy for context. But how we classify groups of people is inherently political and reveals as much about our own biases as the other groups. In my head, angels are classed as beings in the same way as many of the (culturally butchered) pagan gods. Also, monsters as a category are used to dehumanise the Other, by grouping non-sapient creatures in with groups which are basically Humans With A Disease/Powers, like werewolves. Using monsters as a broad level enables hunters to indiscriminately perpetuate violence towards non-humans, regardless of the threat they actually present to the public. Some hunters would classify witches as monsters. Is this how they justify killing them? Long story short, in my head for all supernatural beings that could be classified as monsters, there are two categories, creatures (like the scarecrow), and nonhumans. Because nonhumans can include any supernatural nonhuman creature, like vampires, werewolves, or sirens. Some of these creatures are definitely evil most of the time but! like we’ve seen with Garth this isn’t always the case and is a more neutral definition. tbh with other “monsters” like psychic kids or witches, well, they’re just humans with powers.

64) What are the central themes of Supernatural to you? Did the finale counter or reinforce them? Shape them?

Rem you are too bigbrained with your smart questions. HOWEVER I will attempt to answer. I think the central themes are loss, perseverance, family, and alienation. The others are self explanatory, but there’s the canon alienation of both the Winchesters and many they know from normal life, alienation from their relationships with each other, alienation with how most people see the world, as a place without monsters whilst they know the truth. Ultimately, whether spn wanted to be or not, it is a tragedy. A downwards spiral that never lifts, and ends with two main characters dead and another trapped in a hollow ending in the suburbs. The ending reinforced the theme of loss, as per the tragic tone, but it challenged that of family. The idea that “family don’t end in blood” is pervasive and explicit, yet isn’t textually supported, as Sam and Dean’s most important relationships are almost always with each other and other biological family members. This is blatant in the finale, with Sam seemingly rejecting the family he’s built with other hunters and people in the community to embrace a nuclear family model based on biological ties. The theme of perseverance, to “always keep fighting” was textually explicit in the finale, yet was contradicted by by Dean’s death. Dean, a depressed and at times suicidal man accepting death easily is not a triumph of perseverance, it’s cowardice on the part of the writer’s. The theme of alienation is deeply contradicted by the finale! white picket fence and kids! blurrywife! You know what I’m talking about!

Anyway I hated the finale.

THANK YOU so much for the quiz, it’s super cool and the questions are really insightful :)

#spn #supernatural #spn ask game #i mean im probably (??????????) not adhd or autistic so if ur either of those things and disagree with me let me know i love talking about #that said both are popular fan interpretations and a lot of that comes from neurodivergent ppl #spn meta #sam winchester #dean winchester #this was so fun #using my brain for spn not law readings #suncaptor

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qwertyfingers · 3 years

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Hi, I'm curious, could you elaborate on what things people in SPN fandom produce that you wouldn't have been able to filter out as a teen? I'm not really sure what you're referring to. Problematic porn? Bad takes? Wanky fan activity?

okay uh CSA, incest, and suicide trigger warnings for my answer here lol

first off i dont. really think you actually need me to explain this to you and the way this is worded really feels like either an attempt to minimise some truly atrocious shit or like, imply that i think highly of myself which is not true? i'm full of bad takes bro. i don’t care what people are posting as long as it’s not harmful. but there’s a few layers to the issues i was referring to yesterday

1) while it’s gotten a LOT better over the years, the defense of john’s parenting still happens fairly frequently, and as a kid who related extremely deeply to dean’s specific brand of Menhol Eelness that kind of defense of abuse would have really messed with my headspace! it’s messed up in and off itself to defend people who harm their kids - even unintentionally! - but the way that it specifically affects children who are still being abused is the worst of it. every kid with CPTSD who’s ever had to see someone defend behaviours they recognise from their own abusive family as done out of or as excusable because they had a good reason remembers that shit for the rest of their LIFE

there are echoes of what happened to me in dean, both in the abuse and trauma itself and the way it affects him in the aftermath. to see those things minimised by fans can be really re-traumatising for people. i’m very glad that my exposure to it comes at the end of several long stints in hospital and several years of intensive therapy. i don’t know that 18yo me who attempted suicide on a near weekly basis and hallucinated my abusive step father in my house all the time could have coped with takes like ‘its okay because john was drunk and alcoholism isn’t his fault’ or ‘john wasn’t abusiv he was just grieiving’ or ‘john didn’t abuse dean, everything he did was reasonable for their lifestyle’ without becoming deeply unwell.

2) we also all already know how much deeply fucked up incest content gets made and shared in spn circles. like, okay, have made peace with the existence of incest shipping. i blacklist that shit and i move on. most of it is avoidable and i can kind of forget about it if i’m being careful. but some of spn fandom is on another level. people write and draw some shit that is like, actively triggering on the ‘call my therapist and beg to be sectioned’ level. i had to renew my lorazepam prescription for the first time since lockdown started lmao. one of the fandom darling artists literally posted graphic dean/jack porn on their blog next to their really popular castiel art like. i’m not kidding when i say that would have made me hurt myself when i was younger

3) there are a LOT of really weird interactions btwn minors and adults in this fandom and while thats noit something that the corner of tumblr/discord i move through has any real problems with, i still see shit go down in other circles / servers, and the things i saw on the periphery when i was younger tell me it used to be wayyyyyyyyyyyy worse. adults actively encouraging like 13yos to read/write porn, children being pressured into incest content, 30yo+ people having intensely sexual interactions with minors like.

as someone who is generally of the belief that ‘minors n adults shouldnt interact online’ is the dumbest shit i’ve ever heard, supernatural fandom does sometimes make me think im wrong and wish i could set everyone under the age of 18 in a safe enclosure away from some of the insane people that go here like.

in general i think that teens having adult friends in fandom is good becuase it allows an avenue for discussing legitimate issues you have and they can be really helpful to help rpotect young people! I literally owe my adult fandom friends from my own childhood for giving me the lagnuage to talk about the abuse i faced and they were the first people who ever made me feel like i had a way out of my situation. without older online friends i might never have found out that the reason i had no interest in sex was because of trauma, or figured out that the reason reading fic about women or trans men upset me so much was because i was projecting my trauma onto them, and with cis mens bodies i didnt have that issue. i owe all of those things to adults who in the modern day might be chastised for being friends with me because i was young, but i needed them!

all this is to say that i think the breadth of inappropriate adult/minor interactions over the years have led to an environment where a generation of 20-somethings are now terrified of interacting with teenagers (for fear of becoming the adults who traumatised them), and a generation of teenagers who are largely terrified of talking to adults (for fear of being traumatised) and miss out on guiding hands that some of them really need. if the adults in your physical life harm you, and you cannot turn to adults on the internet, what do you do?

4) i’m so tired of people writing underage porn, bro. there are enough adults in this show, grow the fuck up

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sun-3-160 · 4 years

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End!Verse Meta: It's All Symbolism

End!verse is basically Dean's worst nightmare and Zechariah is using that to strong-arm him into saying Yes. This is all written under the assumption that a) Dean has romantic / alterous feelings for Cas; and b) End!Verse is not the future, and instead simply Zechariah saying it is what will happen of Dean doesn't say Yes. That is what I am setting out to prove.

Dean gets thrown into end!verse with no warning just like he is thrown into the whole having feelings thing.

No cell signal, no radio, he can't really get help from anyone (which is kind of his fault) because he doesn't like to share feelings with anyone, especially Sam. he views himself as a father figure to Sam, and John is the only father figure he has ever really had, nixing Bobby of course, John was his "model father" and not a good one. I'll talk about John later.

Sam is dead (at least as far as Dean knows; this is geared more toward the first half of the episode) because Sam is the one person that he knows he can't ever talk to about feelings; especially in the earlier seasons he is trying to keep up that image of the "perfect father figure" so much that he at times sacrifices a connection with Sam.

Cas fell in an angel way, which was another part of the nightmare because Dean is scared of Cas falling in the feelings way (God he's so scared of Cas reciprocating).

Dean views himself as a romantic rival because he knows in the back of his mind that his own repression is the main reason that he can't be with Cas.

“[Dean] Oh, come on. You don't trust yourself? [ev!Dean] No. Absolutely not.” Really meta on the writer’s part; Dean doesn’t trust himself enough to show feelings, lord forbid he makes emotional connections.

Risa. her name is similar to Lisa’s. Nigh identical. The way the dialogue is framed, (as far as I can tell, at least) we as the viewers are supposed to take it that ev!Dean lied to her about them having a connection. This isn't to say that our Dean didn't love Lisa, but he didn't have a connection with her. he could never truly be with her because he would be paranoid all the time. As much as he wants the “apple pie life” he can never have it.

He's scared of Cas changing. As repressed as he is, Dean recognises that he loves Cas the way that he is, but he knows that he has been a bad influence on him. He doesn’t want Cas to go down the same road he has (The orgy part is because he doesn't want to share).

Ev!Dean seems very... shall we say abusive to ev!Cas. He behaves the way Dean is scared that he eventually will. While Dean tries to behave like John, he never wants to be as bad of a person as John was. The whole "fearless leader" thing is really drilled in. And by Cas nonetheless. Dean doesn’t want Cas of all people to see him as emotionless (Also this is a good time to point out that Dean does in fact view emotions as tantamount to fear. That showing emotion is indicative of fear).

"[ev!Dean] Me and him - It's a pretty messed-up situation we got going." There is a very blatant cut and our Dean looks at ev!Cas. It’s not even subtext at this point. The amount of editing this episode went through is incredible and for that scene to still be put in? As Brian Fuller once said, “It's practically text..”

While he does try to act like him at some times (particularly in parenting Sam) Dean is so scared of becoming like John. He doesn't want to be the fearless - emotionless - leader. Ev!Cas says that ev!Dean is torturing people for information. Torture is a big part of Dean's Hell trauma (A/N: Actually, now that I think about it, they almost conciously avoid talking about Dean’s experiance in Hell or the fact that he frequently exhibits PTSD-like symptoms. That’s not a good look guys...). He doesn't ever want to become like that again. The best example I can think of is Bucky from the Marvel Cinematic Universe. The Winter Soldier is the part of his past that he’d rather not think of, but he can never escape from, and Dean is quite similar in that respect. He was in Hell, torturing people for (extensive Google search) approx. 10 years or almost 4000 days. At the thought of torturing anyone again, even Alastair, the demon who tortured him for 30 years, he practically pleaded with Castiel to find another way, so he wouldn’t have to relive that part of himself.

Cas says "What? I like past you" and ev!Dean gets possessive. Dean is scared of never being with Cas just as much as he is scared of being with him. More importantly, this goes back to the more pressing matter that Dean is scared of Cas liking him. And, if ev!Dean is to be believed as Dean’s future - and nightmare - self, he doesn’t want to become something that Cas wouldn’t love.

He has to kill Sam. Not the meta you came here for, but still important to make the assertion that this is supposed to be Dean’s nightmare. Zechariah is using all of Dean's nightmares against him. He shows him all of his worst fears, and says that it is his future to coerce him into saying “Yes.” This is not the only time killing Sam has been used against Dean. Later on in the show, Cain tells Dean that if he keeps the Mark, he will eventually kill Sam.

This next point was actually removed from the script, but I think if left in, it would have spoken volumes to Dean’s character: "[ev!Cas] But instead, we become this. The only thing I think we have left, Dean and me, is each other. (unadorned sincerity) If Dean says it’s time to go out in a blaze of glory, win or lose, so be it. I’m in. But then... (smiles easily at Dean) That’s just how I roll." This. Just… All of it. Cas’s dependence on Dean, Dean’s fear that he will be what kills Cas. His fear that Cas is just going along with whatever he wants, and his fear that Cas isn’t. That Cas is following Dean so - to all appearances at least - blindly. That Cas is doing it because he reciprocates.

Before they go in to face Samifer, Dean realises that it is a trap and that ev!Dean is using the rest of them as a diversion, You mean you're gonna feed your friends into a meat grinder? Cas, too?” He makes a clear distinction between his friends and Cas. But he isn’t just talking to ev!Dean. He is talking to himself as well, because he knows. He knows that Cas isn’t a friend. He has never viewed Cas as a friend.

Also shortly after that, Dean is knocked out by ev!Dean. When he wakes up, while it isn’t said, the assumption can be made that it crosses him mind that Cas is dead. He worries that his own nature will get him killed, and that he won’t realise that until it’s too late.

Edit: corrected typos, also my horrid inconsistencies with the spelling of Castiel's name (I spell it both "Cas" and "Cass" depending on my mood)

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wingtrap · 4 years

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Season One, Episode Eleven

Scarecrow

4:27 Sam is worried for John, his first question is to ask if John’s alright. He’s trying to explain things to John, saying that they’ve been looking for him. For all they clash, Sam and John do have a much better relationship than Dean and John.

4:50 We find out that it was a demon that killed Mary.

5:12 I would have done anything to protect you from that - John. Again, I think that perhaps Sam and John do have the better relationship. But Sam’s at a stage where being the youngest in the family and being protected isn’t what he’s interested in. Plus, he also doesn’t view a lot of what John does as being protective; he sees it as leaving him out and keeping secrets.

5:23 So the question is why can’t Sam and Dean be involved? John’s lack of communication is one reason why they have so many issues. This is leaving them in the dark, wondering if their father is injured, or thinking that this, what their whole lives have been about, is going to be them sitting on the sidelines and only hearing about it in vague grunts.

5:30 You and your brother, you need to stop looking for me. I don’t know how John thought that would be enough to stop Sam and Dean. He obviously goes with the order tack with Dean, but this is just reverse psychology on Sam. Again, I think he’s trying to protect them, but this just means that they’re going to stumble in blindly.

6:04 Just the whole change to Dean’s posture. He sits up much straighter. It’s fear, and I’d guess that John uses a completely different tone with Dean.

6:32 So, again, John was given them a get out of the way job. That’s really the entire point. Perhaps he felt they got too close to him in Lawrence, or did actually want to check that they were alright.

7:02 Dean’s admiring of John. John is a very good hunter, but you can see a lot in how Dean tries to emulate him. He looks up to John, which to me also goes into seeking John’s approval.

7:55 For Sam, this is really about Jess. He has no memory of Mary, and doesn’t idolise her in the same way Dean does. Jess is what’s motivating Sam, not Mary. But also, I do think that Sam saying that Dean has no way of knowing how Sam feels is a low blow.

8:03 Dean just goes to saying that it isn’t safe. He doesn’t bother arguing with Sam. He recognises that isn’t going to get through to Sam, this is very much trying to be protective. But as he usually does, Sam doesn’t see it that way.

8:11 I don’t understand the blind faith you have in the man - Sam. This is a source of a lot of their issues, and it even comes out in season thirteen when they’re discussing how Dean treats Jack. What Sam sees as blind faith and real admiration, is Dean trying to keep his head down and being a soldier as a result of years of emotional abuse. Dean’s dreadful as expressing this though, so Sam doesn’t see that Dean’s relationship with John is a lot more complicated than the absolute surface level. Dean is trying to be a good son, yes, but that’s only because of what being a “bad” son means, though again Sam just takes that as Dean calling him a bad son. They’re essentially arguing on two different levels and not really communicating.

8:35 You’re a selfish bastard - Dean. This is Sam leaving Dean, again. Sam’s written as quite ignorant of Dean’s emotions, though he gets somewhat better at it in later seasons. I do get Sam’s reasoning for wanting to find John, I just find it easier to relate to Dean.

8:58 That’s what I want you to do - Sam. It’s goading - a go on, prove that I’m right and you’ll just leave. There’s probably more subtext there, but I can’t really unravel it.

I think the most frustrating thing about their argument, particularly here is when they’re just talking past each other and not really discussing anything important. On Sam’s part, he seems to just be reading Dean on a surface level, and it’s fueled by a general sibling rivalry, and the usual annoying older brother. Sam’s usually good with empathising with people, but with Dean, there’s first of all a lot of history, but also Sam can’t take his usual route of comforting with Dean. For Dean, him being bad at communicating emotion is a problem that continually comes up for him in relationships. Grumpy, sarcastic, diverting attention tend to be his norm. Sam is reading Dean on a surface level, partially because that’s what Dean is giving. Here, he’s absolutely wrapped up in the persona that tries to impress and emulate John, and very little of what’s underneath gets through for others to see.

10:27 Well, at least someone got the incredibly subtle reference.

11:28 It’s Meg! I know she’s supposed to be hitch-hiking, but it does immediately seem a little odd that Sam just happens to bump into someone. It’s more obvious once we keep seeing her, but even here it raises an eyebrow. Her and Sam’s relationship is interesting, particularly their connection through Azazel. What is she there to do? She goes the route of being friendly, possibly trying to get Sam on-side. But it’s also a bit of Sam and Dean not being ready for a demon. We saw a number of their misconceptions in Phantom Traveller. Meg looks and acts like a normal person, and certainly isn’t limited to ‘plane crash demon’.

12:03 Just the way Meg says freak. Calling Sam freak keeps coming up.

12:33 I do also think that Meg trusting the van guy does raise an eyebrow. Sam isn’t experienced enough yet to really catch on it - no normal woman would get in a van with someone like that.

17:31 So Meg is wanting to form perhaps a friendship with Sam - maybe to keep an eye on him. She draws attention to herself. She is possibly just bored or thinks it’s fun that he doesn’t recognise her as a demon, but she does kind of put herself in danger by talking to Sam. Especially when he sees her in three different places and it really sticks out that she’s following him.

18:08 Okay, Sam does come across as way too trusting. It’s obvious that he shouldn’t trust Meg, and Sam’s just... completely switched off from being a hunter? Like because he’s not in hunter mode he feels like he’s safe?

21:16 Meg saying that she had to get away from her family. I actually kind of think that’s true - her family is Azazel, and he’s been noted as being fanatical. It would be interesting to know what their relationship is. She’s obviously not telling the whole truth here, but I would think there had been expectations on her. The other thing is that she is trying to connect to Sam, by relating to him. It’s one reason why Sam is so easily trusting - he feels he can relate to Meg.

25:27 Again with the frustration. Sam - don’t just cut Dean off and presume what he’s going to say. Yes, Dean is struggling to get words out and he is probably going to mince them, but listen? It does say that Sam is nowhere near forgiving(?) Dean, though.

25:39 Sam is surprised that Dean wants him to live his own life, but this is more Dean being self-sacrificial. And how Dean says ‘stand up to Dad’ - that little choked laugh, as Dean never could stand up to John. Dean directly says that he admires that about Sam, he’s proud of him. The distance of a phone call (or a prayer) makes it easier for Dean to talk.

31:10 So we get a bit more of Meg’s goal - separating Sam and Dean. She seems particularly upset that Sam is going back to Dean.

41:32 This seems a bit like Meg was going to get Sam to go with her originally. Like with her letting Sam go there’s a little humanity there.

#spn watchback #spn #supernatural #scarecrow #1x11 #dean winchester #sam winchester #meg masters

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orionsangel86 · 7 years

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Part 1 - Episode Review of 12x14

I have written my reviews of 12x14 and 12x15 together for the sake of a quick catch up. 12x15 will be posted in part 2 which will be shortly after this post.

Firstly, I skipped full reviews of these episodes and 12x13 because of my tumblr absence. 12x13 was goddamn awful thanks to bucklemming being the most incompetent writers of all time and only still working on the show thanks to NEPOTISM. The only things I took away from 12x13 was that Mary finally told the boys the truth about working with the BMOL (though the best parts of that conversation were handed over to Berens because Andrew Dabb is a smart man) and Dean’s face when Gavin and his ghostly girlfriend disappeared in a glowy light together which screamed of LONGING for another character who just the episode prior to that one went all glowy for a bit. Ahem. Rowena was also awesome but not written as well as usual. That’s all your getting from me on 12x13 I’m afraid. Moving on.

12x14 was a great episode for Sam content, finally pulling him back into the game and making him “pick a side”. Sam chose the BMOL. He killed the alpha vamp like the BAMF he is and basically owned the episode whilst Dean spent it either being emotional or being seduced by Ketch. (no seriously that was the ONLY way to read that scene). I also loved 12x15 mainly thanks to Cas and Crowley but I’ll talk more about 12x15 in part 2, firstly my main points from 12x14.

Dean and Mary

One really great point to take away from 12x14 was the conversation with Mary at the beginning. Dean is finally being open and honest about his feelings and MY GOD how long has it taken to get to this point?

DEAN “How about for once you just try to be a mom”

MARY “I am your mother, but I am NOT just your mom, and you are NOT a child”

DEAN “I never was”

AAAHHHHHHH this is the CLOSEST we have come to discussing John Winchesters abuse and what it did to Dean and OH MY GOD I NEED MORE! I do hope we see the continuation of this honest dialogue between them in the future, the final scene where Dean and Mary talk again kinda fell a bit flat to me compared to this moment because I think I wanted that conflict to last longer than just one episode;

DEAN “it’s not your job to make my lunch and kiss me at night. Were adults you gotta make your own choices even if I don’t like them, even if I really don’t like them. That’s just something I’m gonna have to get used to. Okay mom”

I guess another reason it felt kinda flat was because it wasn’t an apology. There is still conflict between Dean and Mary and I think that will continue. I doubt he will forgive her so easily for risking Cas’s life (especially since it was risked for a gun which the BMOL had no idea how to work until Sam showed them anyway).

Dean is basically controlled by his emotions. I talk about this a bit more in my Sam point below, but Dean is struggling with Mary due to the fact that she isn’t the idealistic fantasy mother he put on a pedestal when he was 4 years old any more. Even young Mary being a hunter didn’t really break down that fantasy for him as she was going through the phase of wanting to be a mother and housewife at the time. This Mary is a struggle for Dean to accept, far more than Sam, because of that fantasy. This is made even clearer when he calls her “Mary” instead of “Mom” and kicks her out. He is hurting, and when Dean Winchester is hurting, he gets kinda spiteful. But this was understandable in this moment. Though, as I mention below, Dean’s reactions are not at all based on her working with the Brits, but with a whole build up of other stuff based on the breakdown of his fantasy mother. Sam doesn’t act nearly as bad as he does, and as this episode showed, that really pissed Dean off too.

Sammy the Man of Letters

Sam’s choice to work with the BMOL has probably been greatly debated about on tumblr, though after 12x15 I think we are all pretty much in agreement that he is playing it straight right? I did wonder whether his intentions were to infiltrate but I now think he genuinely wants to help them, and set them on the RIGHT track. This is how I see it all going anyway. Sam was told to pick a side instead of playing middle man. He has unfortunately been kept on the sidelines in the season so far, not really having his own character arc in play and I am glad we are now seeing some more action from Sam. For years in the destiel fandom at least, we have been saying how we see a future for Sam as a man of letters, he has the intelligence, the love of the lore, the desire to do good. It is a perfect fit for him and it makes sense that Sam would jump on board before Dean. If only Bucklemming hadn’t butchered Toni’s character in 12x02 and ruined what could have been a really exciting story for Sam from the start, because now his working with the BMOL still puts a bad taste in my mouth after his torture and abuse. I just can’t see Sam Winchester forgiving that kind of treatment. HOWEVER…

Something that always interests me with the brothers came to play in 12x14 with Dean’s “pick a side!” that I want to mention, we have discussed it before as well in the latter part of season 11. Dean is the emotional character. He wears his heart on his sleeve no matter how much he tries to bottle up his feelings and his emotions tend to control his decisions and actions. This is extremely evident in his interactions with Cas through the entire series. Season 6 is a great example of Dean not believing his own eyes thanks to his emotions getting in the way and Season 8 also plays on this concept. The latter half of season 11 is glorious for this reason, showing Dean’s anguish over Cas’s possession by Lucifer.

Now, we are seeing this again with Mary. Dean is overly emotional, and as I have mentioned before, is struggling to deal with his idealised version of his mother being ripped off of her pedestal. He is struggling to accept the real Mary into his life.

Sam however, is completely different to Dean. He internalises his emotions so much that it is sometimes hard for the audience to understand him. This ‘playing the middle ground’ all the time isn’t Sam wanting to keep on everyones good side, as Dean implies, its him trying to remain objective about each situation as they crop up. He is also clearly hurt by Mary’s betrayal, but he shows it differently. Sam is incredibly unselfish in how he puts his own needs and own emotions aside for the greater good literally ALL THE TIME (except for in season 10 but then everyone’s characterisations were destroyed in season 10) Sam didn’t have the memories of a perfect mother that Dean had for Mary to subvert. He isn’t ruled by his emotions either. He is the far more logical brother, hence his decision to work with the BMOL. Sam is more emotionally intelligent than Dean, he is able to put aside his own feelings to see the bigger picture. This was clear in season 6, it was clear in season 11, and it is clear now, because between the two of them, it is Sam who has far more of a reason to hate the BMOL than Dean does. But Sam gets to see what a shambles their operation really is. They NEED his help, because without it, innocent people may get hurt. I don’t think that Sam planned to infiltrate them to destroy them at all, I think he planned to make them BETTER and to bring them around to his way of thinking.

That topic leads me onto my next point from 12x14:

The British Men of Letters

In 12x14 we were shown just how poor the American operation was for the Brits, Mick clearly means well, but he isn’t doing so great when it comes to the big guns. Yes they may have been able to wipe out most of the vamps in the Midwest region, but that caught the eye of the Alpha vamp which lead to the death of over half his team. The majority of their success came from Ketch and Mary, but after this episode Ketch seems like a loose canon compared to the rest of them.

I think Mick will come around easily to Sam’s way of thinking, that they could even be friends and work together well. Mick may not have any field experience but he is motivated by a desire to do good. Unlike Ketch. When Sam finally realises just how black and white the BMOL currently are, Mick will be the first person he is able to convert. Ketch will become a problem.

12x14 went out of its way to show us how awful Ketch is, that scene of blatant sexism towards his female colleague was just the start. When he beat up that vamp girl it was difficult to watch, filmed in a way that the audience was clearly supposed to recognise how wrong it was. Especially since we never see the vamp girl being a monster, or hurting anyone. The entire episode she just seems scared and frail. This was done on purpose. Ketch’s treatment of her was uncalled for.

I am sure we are all joking about Ketch’s seduction of Dean, because I can still hear his moans of pleasure drinking the scotch and seriously, that was hella sexualised and kinda made me cringe. Sorry buddy, didn’t you know that Dean is taken? :P anyway, what struck me about this is that with all their flashy tech and toys and impressive monster killing stats, Ketch goes with the Scotch and tries to seduce Dean by comparing how alike they are. What intel does he have on Dean exactly? (sometimes it seems like everyone in this show knows he is in the closet except for him).

What has greatly interested me was his line “You’re a killer Dean Winchester”. This is the second time in the space of a few episodes that this has been said to Dean and I am just WAITING for the third. Because I fully expect the third time to be answered with “no, I’m not. I may be a hunter, but my first job is to save people. All people.”

I can really see it coming down to Mick and Sam, and Dean and Ketch. With Mick choosing to stand by Sam and Ketch fighting Dean. I am also very interested to see how Cas comes into all of this, since my money is still on Ketch wanting to pin him to his wall like one of those butterflies in Catrina’s box in 12x11. Ever since we saw those butterflies I got a sinking feeling in my stomach because we were saying after Ketch’s introduction to Cas in 12x09 how it looked like he wanted to put Cas on his wall like Magnus with his Supernatural zoo… then came the butterflies and urgh I just don’t see that as a coincidence.

But anyway, overall it was a good episode, I liked the return of the Alpha vamp but in a way I’m kinda annoyed that he died. Sam got the main kill which I see being an ongoing trend all of a sudden in recent episodes. Sam took out the Hellhound in 12x15,he took out the Alpha Vamp in 12x14, he completed the spell to stop the ghost in 12x13, and he killed Ramiel in 12x12. Interesting... They keep calling Dean the killer, but its Sam who is in killer mode at the moment. Where will this go? We shall have to wait and see.

Part 2 for 12x15 posting shortly.

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coysgeorge · 5 years

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Welcome to my brain.

Right so this is weird. For years I’ve suffered with mental health issues. It all started when I was 11 years old, that’s when I realised something wasn’t quite right. I’ve never liked change. Never. I have a routine that I don’t like to break, for those who are close to me they might think I’m one of the laziest and laid back people when it comes to life I’m not. It all started with the process of moving from primary school to secondary school. I remember the first week of senior school so clearly. My mum really wanted me to go to this school called Deanes in a mainly middle class area, I really didn’t fancy it. However she was insistent that I go there. And I got in. I’m certain to this day that’s what triggered all this off. So here I am, a boy aged 11 originally from Edmonton North London (one of the poorest and most crime ridden areas in the UK) who’s been raised on a council estate going to a School where kids were discussing their parents hot tub. The first day of senior school I knew I didn’t fit in. All the other kids knew I was different, I was sat there overweight in a blazer far too big for me, in shoes that were £20 from Tesco with a Afro, whilst all the other kids had Kickers, new haircuts, talking about their parents hot tubs whilst my family had 6 of us in a 3 bedroom semi detached home in Southend. I walked out and went straight to my old primary school by 12pm to confide in my old teacher Mr Martin just to simply be in surroundings I’m comfortable in. This is where it all started. As the months went by, things got worse. I was getting bullied for my weight, my clothes, my mobile phone etc. Nothing that I couldn’t handle, but being a 11 year old lad it still got on top of me. Then the worse thing imaginable happened to me and my family. My Nan, got diagnosed with Vascular Dementia. Now we knew something was up with her, she wouldn’t recognise me, my siblings, her children and most hearbreaking of all my grandad. Within a year my Nan was bed ridden, couldn’t walk, couldn’t feed herself, could barely string a sentence together. This is when shit hit the fan for me, I would literally walk out of school. Go missing for hours, the worse time was when a police helicopter was actually deployed to look for me, social services got involved because they didn’t believe that I was just depressed. They were certain some sort of abuse was going on. It wasn’t. My parents were always great to me. Always made sure me, my brothers and my sisters got what we want. Always. Despite being so poor growing up. The guilt I felt was unbelievable. But for whatever reason I couldn’t sleep, when I did sleep I would literally sob myself into exhaustion then wake up 2 hours later and beg my mum to not let me go to school because all I wanted to do was stay home incase something went wrong with Nan, I was over eating to the point I was a 40 inch waist at age 12. I was literally hoping I wouldn’t wake up the next day.

Then one day I woke up at 6AM and thought that’s it, I’m done, I’m ending it. So I went out to my back garden, grabbed some rope from my dads shed and walked to a Belfairs woods which was only down the road from me. I googled how to hang myself. I was gonna do it, all the way there I wasn’t crying, I wasn’t sad, I felt relief. Happy that in less than 30 minutes this pain will literally be gone. I won’t have to face anything. My best friend, my Nan not recognising me and looking at me like a stranger, the kids at school who wouldn’t even speak to me, this constant sadness will all be gone. I would have nothing to fear, nothing to face just literally a eternity of nothing. So I get to the woods, find a location, find a branch that could hold my weight, and started digging in my bag for a the rope. Then literally out of nowhere this woman, maybe mid 60’s appears with her Jack Russle, and smiles at me the dog approaches me as dogs do so I petted it. She asked me why I’m out so early, I told her some bullshit that I’m going on a detour to collect my papers for my paper round. I didn’t even have a paper round at the time. Then for some reason I just decided, I could easily cause this for myself but if that woman was literally 10 minutes later she would’ve found me hanging from a tree. I didn’t think, but I couldn’t go ahead with it. I couldn’t let someone else live with that for the rest of their lives. So I left, was I greatful for that woman? At the time no, I was angry if anything knowing I’m gonna have to go back to reality after she made me question my conscious after a measly 2 minute conversation that I lied through my teeth in. Now looking back on it. I owe her my life. It’s as simple as that.

So a year passes by, my depressions still there then my mum calls me in the kitchen one day “George you’ve not been yourself and I signed you on the waiting list for belfairs (the secondary school all my primary school friends went to) a year ago, they called today you’re starting Monday” so for the first time in a year I smiled legitimately. The first smile I’ve legitimately not had to force in a year/two years. I’m going back to school with all my pals. I’m elated. I spend the next 3 years being the class clown, getting shit grades, drinking down the park and just being normal. Yes my Nan was ill. But by this time I’ve accepted that she’s gone. The woman laying in that bed wasn’t my Nan. It was a illness that stole my nan’s body. And when she died, yes I was heartbroken but I was also relieved. Relieved that she’s free from any pain and relieved that my grandad can go back to having a life rather than spending every minute of the day caring for her. And hats off to my grandad, he never put her in a home. He was with her every day in his house looking after her. He’s my absolute idol and if I’m half the man he is then I’ll die a very happy man.

So fast forward a few years, I’m struggling for work, second guessing what grades I got on my CV because instead of going to results day me and my friend John went to smoke a packet of benson and hedges down the local park. Not the best life choice but not one u regret.

So I’ve never been good with women, I’m 21 at this point. 22 stone. Bleached blonde hair for some reason. A probably the most undesirable Male on earth. The only 2 t-shirts I wore were this Mohammed Alli t shirt and a smelly blink 182 t shirt with a alien on it. Still suffering with depression but it wasn’t as crippling as before, I had good days, I had bad days. But then finally I get a match on tinder (I didn’t get many back then as you can imagine) so I popped up to this girl expecting she’d reply back then boom, next thing you know I’m in a relationship, good right? Probably completely the opposite. I’ve never been so miserable in my life. I’m not gonna go too deep into the relationship as I’m sure she’s moved on with her life and in a weird way, despite all she put me through in those 8 months. I hope she’s happy. But in those 8 months I self harmed, fought suicidal thoughts daily and couldn’t wait to be dead again. So I’m back to square one again. One day I broke it off with her, I go home. I’m happy again, so I have a job that pays good money, surrounded by my family again and free to do what I like again.

So for those of you who know me, always know how anti cocaine I am. So I’m in a new job. Top sales man out of a team of 60 people. Taking home silly money for a telesales role and I’m drinking. And when I say I’m drinking I’m drinking when I wake up in the morning, I had a vodka bottle stuffed down the side of my bed. I would put whiskey in a flask for my lunch break and put a whole packet of chewing gum in my mouth to get rid of the stench. I’m smoking probably 10 joints a day. I’m a zombie. I wasn’t thinking straight at all. I was having sex with any woman that would show me attention, desperately avoiding a relationship so I’m not emotionally hurt or abused again. I’m a mess. I have a alcohol addiction, then I probably develop 2 of the worse addictions going for the next few months of my life. Cocaine and gambling. So it all started with a night out with some friends from work, being a sales office I knew there would be cocaine but I’ve always had the strength to say no but for whatever reason this time I said yes. I took one line. Didn’t feel anything. Took another, so I said to my mate “is this literally it? I need more because it’s not doing anything” so my mate goes “we’ll get 2 grams for £110, go halves and I promise you you’ll be buzzed more than weed has ever done for you” so I’m sold, if something is better than weed. Why not? So we go back to my colleagues flat at 2am. It’s a shit hole. In a tower block, his Girlfriend sat in the front room furious with him and storms off to bed. We’re listening to house music waiting for this cocaine to be delievered to his door. I fucking hate house music. Half hour later he gets a call from his dealer saying he’s outside. He collects the two grams and he got another two for him and his mrs tomorrow. I ended up giving him the money for 3 of the grams and I’m snorting it off of my work pass still in the clothes I wore at work the day before. I felt like the dogs fucking bollocks. Little did I know at the time I’m sat in a council flat surrounded by a load of filth snorting cocain listening to house music and playing PES. Not even Fifa. PES. I’m the lowest of society right now. But I feel like the Wolf of Wall Street. So I go into work the next day same clothes without even realising how relentless the next 4 months of my life would be. I was spendinga collective of £300 a week on cocaine and weed £150 a week on gambling. I went to the casino with my friend one night, I was so out of hand my friends left me. I lost £2130 in one night, the only reason why I left is because they closed the bar. The people who are closest to me don’t know about that. Not my mum. Not my dad. Not my friends not Sacha. I was a monster.

So the depression is back and in full swing, I lose my job, I was in the most toxic relationship imaginable, I lose my sense or will power all in the space of a year. I’ve been clean of cocaine for 7 months now. I know I won’t touch the shit again. I still have the odd bet. But nothing quite like £2130 in one night. But for some reason it all came crashing down on me the last month or so. I don’t know why, I have Sacha who would literally do anything for me. I’m still getting used to it, she sends me postcards and makes me go get cringe passport photos with her in the photo booth in shops. But I love it, I love her. She’s literally my everything. You’d think that would be enough to cure depression? No it’s not. It’s a illness. A illness I wish there was a cure too. This last month I’ve struggled badly, one night Sacha was in bed next to me and I had to go down to the bathroom and cry for 15 minutes. I don’t know why. I wish I knew why. But it’s time for me to take the right steps and do something about it and get my life back on track. Financially I’m very fortunate at the minute. So are my parents. I’ve got nothing to worry about anymore. I have a strong family, strong friends and a unbelievably strong girlfriend who I worship the ground she walks on.

I’m getting better, will I be depression free one day? Who knows, probably not. Will I be happy all the time? No. But It’s time for me to “man up” as the ignorant people say and take the appropriate steps. I go back to full time hours next week at my job after having 2 weeks signed off with “depression” and going back part time to ease myself in. I’m slowly getting there. I don’t know what the point of this vlog was really, but I feel like it’s helped. And who knows maybe it’ll help someone? For years I’ve been (without sounding big headed) a well know household name on Twitter amongst the spurs community known as a weird vegan guy who doesn’t take anything seriously, but maybe someone will take the time to read this and think “hey if that guy who jokes about 24/7 is like this maybe I’m not so weird at all”

Peace and love my dudes

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wingtrap · 4 years

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Season Two, Episode Two

Everybody Loves a Clown

3:24 I can’t remember being that gullible and trusting as a kid. Clowns randomly rocking up to your place in the middle of the night isn’t normal, kid.

4:58 Sam can’t get out that John died, and visibly, he’s more upset than Dean. Dean is just as affected, if not possibly more, but Sam hasn’t been taught to squash down his emotions in the same way Dean has.

5:17 No. Nothing. - Dean. He’s trying to protect Sam. It’s something he wants to ignore, because it’s an order he could never carry out.

6:45 Don’t patronise me, Dean. - Sam. Dean’s learned from an early age that expressing feelings, and especially mushy ones is something they don’t do. He buries them, rather than dealing with them. For him, talking things out is crying on shoulders, slow dancing and something only girls do. But it leaves him with no way of getting stuff out, so it comes out in some rather destructive ways - drinking, violence.

7:00 All you do is sit out here every day buried under this damn car. - Sam. That is essentially what Dean is doing - he’s burying things. Sam gets outwardly angry, but Dean tends to let things simmer underneath and in this case literally buries himself. The only difference isn’t that he’s voluntarily living under a rock, but rather a car.

7:19 The only thing I can do, is I can work on the car. - Dean. Dean does the same sort of thing at the start of season seven. It’s again a problem he has no way of dealing with. Being active makes him feel better.

10:00 Ellen recognises both Sam and Dean on sight. But they’ve never heard of her.

16:25 Clowns and flying are their ordinary and easy to talk about fears.

14:59 Another attempt at distraction.

15:24 Bunch of scumbags. - Dean. Not you. - Jo. What Jo describes usually happens with guys trying to sleep with her is pretty much exactly what Dean does and was trying to do. In a way she’s calling him out, but Dean is also calling himself a scumbag here. He says ‘guess not’ then drops his eyes.

17:03 You’re awfully quick to jump on this job. - Dean. This is possibly Sam’s way of trying to cheer Dean up, particularly from that Sam’s excuse is that it’s what John would have wanted. Dean’s always shown Sam that he acts because John wants him to. But Sam hasn’t fully lost the desire for revenge and this is probably better than sitting around the Roadhouse playing cat’s cradle.

22:47 But you two, you should go to school. The manager, owner? describes the circus as a refuge for outcasts. He sees Sam and Dean as ordinary. Because on one hand they should be ordinary, but on the other Sam hasn’t been ordinary since he was six months old. They don’t fit in. The Roadhouse is a place they could fit in, but most hunters don’t trust them, and especially not Sam.

23:40 Dad would have wanted me to stick with the job. - Sam. The best way I can read this is that Sam thinks he should stay for Dean’s sake. John’s never been much of a motivator when it comes to Sam.

23:54 Since he died. - Sam. Dean’s reaction says that he very much has a problem with that. Sam being disobedient was probably the source of a lot of abuse for Dean. It’s only now that John has died that Sam’s decided to toe the line. I don’t think Dean understands it.

25:03 Literal smoke and mirrors. Possibly nothing, but neither Sam or Dean are saying exactly what they think and are instead using smoke and mirrors to distract.

30:16 I don't care how you deal with this, but you have to deal with it. - Sam. This reflects their conversation earlier at Bobby’s. Dean doesn’t know how to deal, at least not in a healthy way. For him, the two options are burst out crying or kill a few monsters

#spn #supernatural #dean winchester #sam winchester #2x02 #everybody loves a clown #spn meta #spn watchback

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wingtrap · 4 years

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Season One, Episode Eight

Bugs

3:17 Sam and Dean arguing about whether they should get day jobs or hustle pool to get money. Dean says that he just finds pool fun and easy, but he also says that is how they were raised. I think there’s a bit of that if Dean was put in an ordinary day job, he’d feel uncomfortable and out of place. He feels that his place is hunting, it’s partially John’s influence. Sam, on the other hand, can see himself being much more normal.

3:37 Dean watches Oprah. That’s a little of a sign of him not being quite so stereotypically male as he tries to project.

4:13 Work, work, work. No time to spend my money - Dean. In this season, Dean’s very much at a high point of emotions. Here, hunting is the downer - whereas later, hunting becomes what he does to escape. He reaches a point where spending his money - alcohol, girls - isn’t even coming up in his mind. It’s really a note for later seasons, but you can see depression there, as Dean is no longer interested in things that he once associated with pleasure.

9:05 I’d take our family over normal any day - Dean. It’s interesting, because as we see with Lisa and Ben, and also the bunker Dean would like normal. However, he his priority is Sam - and by extension, John and hunting. Dean only goes for normal when there isn’t an element of guilt in doing so.

11:24 He never treated you like that, you were perfect - Sam. Sam associates the father’s behaviour with John, whereas Dean doesn’t see the connection at all. You can see Dean’s reaction to Sam’s line though. He feels the exact opposite to Sam - that John treated Sam well. It’s a bit of how blind Sam can be to the emotional abuse Dean went through and how much he was shielded. Sam likely experienced only a fraction of what Dean did - and Dean likely reduced John’s criticisms by playing a role.

11:36 A lot of John’s problems with Sam stemmed from Sam not engaging in hunting. Sam didn’t have to develop the same protective mechanisms as Dean, and was able to be more rebellious.

15:11 Dean and his long showers. This is a man who has used the word “marvellous” to describe water pressure.

16:52 Okay, they don’t actually outline bodies like that.

18:30 I do like Dean’s little awkward smile when he’s asked if they’re serial killers. Well, not of humans anyway.

19:36 Mostly, he’s too disappointed in his freak son - Matt. We’re connecting Matt to Sam. Sam sees a lot of himself in Matt, and how Larry treats him. Sam has the same distant relationship with John, and as Matt is interested in insects, Sam is interested in things that John doesn’t approve of. Dean’s “You do?” is also telling. Dean sees himself as the freak son - Sam’s the one who went to college, got a girlfriend and could settle down. All Dean can see himself doing is hunting - he sees education, serious relationships and settling down as pipe dreams. But I think Dean is also annoyed somewhat at Sam, there’s a bit of jealousy there.

19:57 Kid should stick with his family - Dean. They’re really talking about Sam here. Dean was incredibly hurt by Sam leaving, in 5x16, Dean describes Sam leaving as one of the worst nights of his life. It’s a source of much of the tension between Sam and Dean. Sam doesn’t read much more into it than Dean being against him getting out. But it’s a lot more complicated than that for Dean. One is that Sam essentially abandoned him without saying anything, Dean was left to face John alone and has tried to shelter Sam as best he can, though Sam doesn’t recognise this. It’s a bit of younger/older brother, but it’s also Dean seeing himself in the parental role and Sam only seeing Dean in a brother role.

22:57 How about telling him to respect his old man? - Dean. Possibly, one source of Dean’s anger is that Sam being rebellious would have made it harder on Dean. We know Dean often suffered punishment so Sam didn’t have to. You could imagine Dean trying to get Sam to toe the line to protect both of them. It’s realistic, but it can be frustrating how ignorant Sam can be over the way Dean was treated growing up.

23:09 I respected him. But no matter what I did, it was never good enough - Sam. 23:36 You know how most dads are when their kid scores a full ride? Proud - Sam. Sam has been harmed by John. I’m not articulating myself well, but Sam was emotionally free enough to go to college.

23:52 Sam sees this as Dean being dismissive - as I said, it frustrates me. Dean’s hurt here.

24:02 Sam, Dad was never disappointed in you. Never - Dean. But he was always disappointed in Dean. Possibly, John saw Sam as the little kid, something precious to be protected, but didn’t bother getting to actually know Sam.

24:11 He was scared. He was afraid of what could happen to you if he wasn’t around - Dean. Sam says “What are you talking about?” He’s entirely unaware of this. John was interested in protecting Sam. I think he likely expressed a lot of his fears in anger.

24:17 But even when you two weren’t talking, he used to swing by Stanford whenever he could. I think, possibly, that John was proud of Sam. He wasn’t able to say so, but he was still protective of Sam and was willing to keep his distance while still trying to keep Sam safe. I think in their argument, Sam actually wanted his father near and to be emotionally closer, but John read Sam likely at his word, and kept is distance.

On reflection, it’s that Dean doesn’t realise he was abused. He’s got no frame of reference for what a normal upbringing looks like. He knows objectively the most kids aren’t raised on the road as hunters, but he isn’t really exposed to a healthy parent/child dynamic. Dean doesn’t think of himself as having been abused, so he doesn’t connect that emotional trauma to his behaviour as an adult. In 15x09 “I don’t know why I get so angry.” Sam on the other hand, did have a better parental figure - Dean, so Sam is more aware and responsive to John being abusive.

30:29 I do actually like Matt’s fascination with insects. It’s odd, yes, but you can see genuine care and interest there.

32:26 Make him listen? What were you thinking? - Dean. Again, this very much reflects their relationship with John. Dean gets that Matt isn’t going to get through to his father, as Dean couldn’t get through to John. His instinct is to take over from Sam.

32:57 And I think that the father, Larry, is acting a lot like what we could expect John to act. He’s dismissive of his son and his concerns. He easily goes to shouting - the way he shouts “Matt, get inside.”

#spn watchback #spn #supernatural #dean winchester #sam winchester #bugs #1x08 #john winchester #spn meta

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