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fincalinde · 5 months

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you’ve mentioned a few times in your meta that you view nmj as being hypocritical, and i’m inclined to agree with you! would you share some specific quotes from the text that you feel especially support this reading of his character? 👀

It is one of my favourite words to apply to him, isn’t it! I think that’s because a) it’s true, and b) NMJ’s reputation for righteousness (and his belief in his own righteousness) grant an in-universe illusion of consistency that often bleeds through to external readings of him. So I press the point, because it’s fundamental to his character and I usually see it elided or reduced to all-bark-and-no-bite-grumpy-bear-with-a-heart-of-gold fanon NMJ.

And oh yes, there’s an absolute wealth of quotes supporting this. As always, I use the EXR fan translation because I’m old school.

Christ, this got long. Click for more.

It’s all relative, man

First we need to establish what NMJ’s principles supposedly are.

[Nie Huaisang’s] brother, Nie Mingjue, was extremely resolute when carrying out orders, quite renowned in the cultivation world. […] Nie Mingjue had always taught his younger brother with extreme harshness, particularly caring for his studies. (Chapter 13)

[…] he took over the Nie Sect before he even reached twenty, doing everything in a direct, forceful fashion. (Chapter 21)

When he lived, Nie Mingjue was often exasperated by the fact that his brother didn’t meet expectations, so he disciplined him strictly. (Chapter 21)

In spite of Nie Mingjue being a junior to Jin Guangshan, he conducted himself in a strict manner and refused to tolerate Xue Yang no matter what. (Chapter 30)

Without any hesitation, Nie Mingjue scolded, “Drinking the water he brought you while speaking such spiteful words! Did you join my forces not to kill the Wen-dogs but to make idle talk?!” (Chapter 48)

“A proper man should carry himself with proud righteousness. There’s no need to care for the talk of those idlers.” (Chapter 48)

As we can see, NMJ is all about righteousness, but we don’t get too many details confirming what that righteousness entails. We’re expected to make assumptions based on context: that his values are in line with the ideal values of his society, and that he’s living his life according to those principles (and enforcing said principles on others).

This is worth keeping in mind. We know NMJ is ‘righteous’. We know, in a general sense, what societal standards for morality are in this setting and we see the tension between society’s theoretical standards, its actual standards, and the moral frameworks of characters such as WWX and LXC. And there’s tension between those standards and NMJ’s moral framework, too. But though WWX attempts (and fails) to opt out and LXC attempts (and fails) to find a better way through open conversation and consideration of context, their failures are not due to hypocrisy but instead larger forces at play. In other words, they go up against society and society wins.

NMJ has a problem with society too, but for him the problem is not with its rules and assumptions—it’s with the individuals who make it up. He has no problem with the system. To NMJ, the system is a good thing. If only the people in it would rigidly conform to the rules, everything would be fine. And an outlook like that can only ever lead to hypocrisy, not just because human beings and their actions don’t fit into rigid categories, but because by not attempting to navigate the system (LXC, JGY, JC) or even attempting to opt out (WWX, LWJ, XY), NMJ positions himself above society, as a moral arbiter.

This is why he feels entitled to upbraid JGS, who is a generation above him. It’s why he feels entitled to harass and attempt to murder JGY for not being loyal to NMJ over and above his filial duty to his father. These actions are after he’s reached the point of no return with the sabre spirit, yes, but they didn’t come out of nowhere. It’s just the nadir of a path he’s been on presumably his entire life.

All the information is on the task

NMJ is very good at bending his supposedly rigid principles when it’s convenient for him, while not offering any grace or understanding to others who do the same. And ‘others’, let’s be real, usually equates to JGY. The horror vortex of NMJ’s obsession with controlling JGY really cannot be escaped.

Let’s start with the biggie. JGY is naturally the one who calls NMJ out, because he’s the only one who can see the emperor has no clothes, and by clothes I mean leg to stand on.

“But, Brother, I have always wanted to ask you something—the lives under your hands are in any regard more than those under mine, so why is it that I only killed a few cultivators out of desperation and you keep on bringing it up, even until now?” (Chapter 48)

“Are you saying that all of the people you killed deserved their deaths? […] Then, may I ask, just how do you decide if someone deserves death? Are your standards absolutely correct? If I kill one but save hundreds, would the good outweigh the bad, or would I still deserve death? To do great things, sacrifices must happen.” (Chapter 48)

Chifeng-zun, my man, he has nailed you. The point is not to start drawing equivalences in quite the way JGY is doing—I would certainly argue that if you’re killing undeserving people for the greater good you’d better have one hell of a greater good to be aiming for, even in the crapsack world of MDZS. JGY’s argument is partly a numbers game, but I want to set that aside, because it’s a distraction from his core point, to which numbers are irrelevant: can NMJ truly justify every single murder he has ever committed? Because if he can’t, he’s condemned by his own supposed standards. Note JGY’s use of the word ‘absolute’. NMJ is a moral absolutist! Is he absolutely sure? And if he is sure, does it matter that he’s sure? Why is his certainty more important than anyone else’s?

NMJ never once grapples with these questions. If he did, he might be able to pull the teeth of his own hypocrisy by acknowledging it and engaging with it. But of course he’s not capable of that, certainly not by the time of this scene.

And speaking of NMJ’s hypocrisy re: who does and doesn’t deserve to die…

“Very well! I’ll kill myself after I kill you!” (Chapter 49)

But Roquen, you cry! NMJ says such an utterly mad thing because he’s battered and beaten and not thinking clearly, not to mention past the point of no return with the sabre spirit as he’s been cultivating with resentful energy intensely throughout the war! That’s why he walks it back after LXC intervenes!

To which I say: it is almost as though context matters!

And yes, I’m aware of the context. I’m aware that just before this bit of dialogue the narrative claims JGY pointing out ‘if I hadn’t killed them you’d be dead’ is a subtle way of saying ‘you can’t kill me because you owe me your life’ as though that’s purely manipulative rather than being, you know, true. ‘Even if you refuse to accept I acted for the best, please don’t kill me and I’m going to subtly remind you that you owe me to maximise my chances of getting you to not kill me (after I just risked my life to save yours when it would have been 100x better for me personally if you died)’ is hardly an outrageous position.

It’s interesting, though, isn’t it, that NMJ never again mentions taking his own life as a matter of principle, despite the fact that he subsequently attempts to murder JGY again for the apparently unforgivable crime of … not being able to overrule his abusive father about XY, and then having the temerity to complain to LXC about NMJ’s attempt to murder him.

Obviously the Jin are a huge threat after the war, but these are all pretty feeble reasons for piling on JGY. Sure, maybe JGY would also have tried to protect XY if JGS weren’t around, but the fact is that JGS is around and he’s calling the shots. Besides, once JGS is out of the picture JGY has no issue disposing of XY (with Dr Evil levels of ineptness, apparently), so that’s a fairly decent indicator he’s not ride or die. As for the fact that JGY is making nice to NMJ’s face but complaining behind his back, well. Regardless of any genuine desire to vent to his only friend, I have no doubt he was indeed trying to drive a wedge between NMJ and LXC as a strategic move. But is it wrong of him to do so, considering NMJ is a genuine and present threat to his life and LXC is just not getting it? And does any of the above, including his struggle to maintain his position and all the other work he does for his father mean he deserves death—immediate, extrajudicial and violent death?

Let me put it this way. NMJ is making JGY responsible for his father’s actions and his father’s orders—the question of whether JGY is on board with his father’s instructions is academic, because he has no choice in the matter. JGY cannot opt out of his situation. The only opt out is death, and that is not a meaningful choice because no one else is getting vilified for having the audacity to fight for their place in their world rather than lie down and die. And even if JGY really were a cackling supervillain 100% on board with his father’s diabolical plans, NMJ’s focus on him to the exclusion of JGS is driven by emotion and not by a rational evaluation of the morality and logistics of the situation.

And when he’s insisting that JGY deserves death (and trying to mete it out to him) NMJ never again considers for a moment whether, if JGY really deserves to die, then maybe he does too.

As a third example, to make it a hat trick, we have this:

However, Jin Guangyao wasn’t his subordinate anymore. Only after they became sworn brothers would he have the status and the position to urge Jin Guangyao, like how he disciplined his younger brother, Nie Huaisang. (Chapter 49)

“Brother, it really was my father’s orders. I couldn’t refuse. Now. if you want me to take care of Xue Yang, what would I say to him?” (Chapter 49)

NMJ is perfectly aware that according to the rules of their society and the moral framework he himself subscribes to, JGY’s highest authority is his father. But NMJ can’t accept that. He thinks he should be the ultimate authority over JGY, and though he couches it in moral terms about wanting JGY to follow the correct path, what he really means is what he himself considers to be the correct path. As always, he doesn’t listen to JGY’s perfectly valid points about how it’s not possible for him to do the ‘right’ thing as he just doesn’t have that kind of authority and will only end up making his own life worse. I don’t have a quote demonstrating this, but considering everything we know about NMJ, I think we can infer he would not take kindly to JGY ordering NHS to do something futile and self-destructive in the name of the correct path, purely on the grounds that JGY is now his elder brother.

I’ll acknowledge again that JGY is absolutely an accomplice in his father’s schemes, and the originator of a fair few of them since he’s politically gifted. But it’s just not possible to untangle JGY’s complicity from his need (and his right!) to survive. NMJ is correct to be concerned about JGY as a risk, because he’s a huge asset to JGS. But once again, making JGY a target is not the moral or even the sensible thing to do. We know JGY enjoys aspects of what his father asks him to do. We also know that once his father is out of the picture he gets rid of XY, purges the Jin of corruption and pushes through the watchtower project. When he has agency as a clan leader he doesn’t follow his father’s political agenda to the letter, to say the least! So there is certainly a large dollop of truth in his claims that he has no choice and he’s unhappy and vulnerable.

And then a bonus, something not linked to JGY to demonstrate that NMJ’s hypocrisy extends beyond his personal vendetta.

Nie Mingjue spoke coldly. “If she responded with only silence and not opposition when the Wen Sect was causing mayhem, it’s the same as indifference. She shouldn’t have been so disillusioned as to hope that she could be treated with respect when the Wen Sect was doing evil and be unwilling to suffer the consequences and pay the price when the Wen Sect was wiped out.” (Chapter 73)

Charming. Funny how NMJ says this after spending the war fighting on the same side as the guy who invented demonic cultivation and controls an army of desecrated corpses, violating every possible social and cultural principle they have. But the Sunshot Campaign would have failed without WWX’s contributions, so I suppose NMJ thought that compromise was acceptable. It’s all right for him to stay silent and not oppose WWX, since WWX has been useful to his own agenda. What’s not acceptable is staying silent when the consequence is your own violent death and literally no good whatsoever being achieved thereby.

Aside from being a hypocrite, NMJ is also pathologically incapable of self-reflection.

Finish him!

At the end of the day, NMJ’s principles are inherently contradictory because he’s living in morally relative world where the narrative expects us to take context into account and root for a protagonist who brutally tortures his enemies to death and a romantic lead who find+replaces his ethical framework with ‘Wei Ying’.

It is simply not possible for NMJ to be both righteous and rigid, so when he chooses to be rigid he foregoes being righteous. Even in his moments of flexibility, he continues to apply harsh standards to others that he refuses to apply to himself. That’s what makes him a hypocrite. He isn’t a bastion of absolute morality in a sea of corruption. He’s in denial about the nuanced reality he’s living in, and placing himself on high as a moral authority with no actual mandate. Hypocrisy inevitably results, and the consequences are hugely damaging to everyone around him.

#ask #thatswhatsushesaid #roquen meta #like i said he is FASCINATING #but in a horrifying kind of way #i should also sling in the tags a clarification #that i literally do not care that wwx has an army of desecrated corpses #i'm just pointing out that like you know #it's relevant #if i applied my actual real life moral standards to this text #i wouldn't be able to engage with it all #bc everyone is a walking war crime

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layzeal · 1 year

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What are some of the things that are ace codesd abt wwx? I don’t hear much abt and and am curious!

HIII, okay so as always, "coded" isn't really the right word since it implies authorial intent, but i often use it anyway bc who cares it's my blog. just know i don't think wwx is actually canonically supposed to be demi, it's just a headcanon from silly ol' me!

i do have a #demi-wwx tag you can check if u'd like too hehe

now, what makes wwx come off as SO incredibly acespec/demisexual for me is his approach to... well, relationships in his first life. he's a flirt! he likes teasing people! he likes watching them blush! he likes getting a reaction! but as lwj questions him in the xuanwu cave about, it all seems like very much a game to him, something he does without actual intention, unaware of the torment he might be putting others (lwj) through

i often see people say that wwx didn't date or that wangxian didnt get together in his first life because "they had other things going on" and "there was no time", but that's not only innacurate to post-sunshot, it genuinely comes off to me as if wwx simply has no romantic or sexual interest in anyone at all. granted, he has an eye for pretty things and people, and is VERY vocal about whenever he finds others beautiful. lwj is a common target, but far from the only one!

basically, for as loud as flirty as he can be, we know that's never really genuine. there's no second-intentions or desire in his words (hell, he had even been saving first first kiss for twenty years!!), even when it comes to lwj. and the way we know it is by comparing it all to how he acts, thinks and feels after he's ACTUALLY experiencing attraction for the first time!

but what does have to do with him being demi? and what makes, in my mind, wwx so much more demi coded than lwj for example, whose entire romantic arc is only falling in love with one person?

well, that would be that despite the way it's been romanticized, demisexuality has nothing to do with "only falling in love once". devotion isn't acespec exclusive, choosing to love a single person in your life isn't acespec exclusive. demisexuality is simply a term to describe the specific conditions a relationship might need for an asexual person to experience attraction. those conditions? a strong emotional bond (which is why so many demi ppl are described as "only being able to fall in love with your best friend")

and to me, that's what sells wwx as demisexual the most. he's had so many friends, classmates, xiongdi, and all sorts of companions in his life, but none of them were particularly... emotionally fulfilling. other than perhaps shijie, who he saw more like a mother and sister, there was no one else who he could truly lean on and trust, open up, and be vulnerable with. for many people, that's not a barrier that gets in the way of developing romantic or sexual interest in someone at all, and that's great!! (we see it with lwj himself, who spent so many of his teenage years frustrated for liking wwx and had to slowly realize why that wasn't shameful or a bad thing. lwj's attraction not only came before there was any significant bond between them, it directly blocked it from forming earlier due to lwj's constant avoidance of wwx!)

but for demi people, and for wei wuxian, it is a barrier. it's almost comical just how fast and deeply wwx fell in love with lwj once he opened up to him. it is the most visible in wwx's second life, but i do find there are inklings here and there to it in his first, especially after wwx and lwj get to spend some pleasant time together (ie. post-phoenix mountain and post-yiling date with a-yuan)

but it really does become the most obvious after the yi city arc (drunkji 2 my belovedddd). by that point, their friendship and closeness was already solid, and wwx is already crushing HARD, but isn't quite aware of it yet. it isn't until post-jinlitai stab (and his flashback to his and lwj's youth, how they fell apart and how lwj was only ever worried for him) that he starts pondering if these feelings might be... more than just fondness. and boy do i eat it UUUUUP

it wasn't until wei wuxian got that reassurance of trust and closeness that his feelings truly started to develop. i genuinely cannot imagine a wei wuxian who falls in love with someone who he genuinely believes hates him, and it's actually something i believe stopped wwx from developing deep feelings for lwj in his first life. we know how much all his rejections and their disagreements hurt wwx, and in the back of his mind, he always thought lwj disapproved of him, maybe even disliked him. there was no trust, and it smothered any small, warm little inkling of romantic love from sparking into a flame

so when wwx finds himself with a lwj who is indulgent, who wants to be close, who protects him, comforts him, listens to him, and won't ever let him fall... well, you can't blame him for daydreaming about a calm farm life by his side, or being embarrassed for acting so shameless while still pretending to be mxy, or wishing from the bottom of his heart that even if lwj doesn't love him back, he'll still stay next to him

he only ever wanted lwj to be his friend, and now he's the closest and most intimate one he's ever had. and he treats him so well... all the barriers have fallen, how could wei wuxian not fall too?

(and i didnt rly get into it but this all applies to physical attraction as well! wwx behaves and sees lwj's beauty through two different lenses in his first and second life, and wwx himself noticed the difference from when he could see lwj's nakedness back then without batting an eye VS now. it's hilarious, endearing, and EXTREMELY relatable!!)

#this is just me babbling nonsensically for way too many paragraphs #BUT NOW U KNOW WHY MY BLOG TITLE IS ''wangxian friendship enthusiast''#modao #lace speaks #demi wwx

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incarnadinedreams · 1 year

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What do you think about jc and wwx's relationship? And how sometimes it seems like wwx is not very kind(?) thinking about jc? I don't perceive him having a good opinion about jc (as he does with wn and lwj that he praises)

Oh, this is a tricky one for me! Thanks for the ask, it sparked a lot of thinking... probably too much, oops... and sorry it took so long to reply, there was a small tornado over the weekend so I've been busy picking up the yard for the last couple days...

I definitely agree that's the overall vibe. It's tough because I go back and forth on this and can probably be swayed in different directions depending on my mood or if I read a persuasive argument or something. (And if anyone has any thoughts on the topic I definitely welcome commentary or different perspectives! It's an interesting topic with a lot of different angles to explore, I think.) Or rather what I think the cause of it is, because I agree that he doesn't think of him in particularly nice ways, especially post-resurrection.

Because of the framing of the story, it's a little hard to tell if it's how he's thought about Jiang Cheng all along, or if it's his post-resurrection resentment coloring his recollections.

So then the question I waffle on is exactly how much of these opinions are from anger over everything that happened, how much stem from avoiding painful topics, and how much are from his ideas of Jiang Cheng that took root long before everything that happened? Or why not a little bit of all three!

(Cut for length. 'Challenge: Shut the Fuck Up and Have a Concise Point' has been a spectacular failure. Brevity is the soul of wit but these two make me stupid, so.)

As much as I do dearly love the most precious purple darling of my heart Jiang Cheng, from Wei Wuxian's perspective I can't really blame him for being at least a little bit peeved! There was a siege, after all, and it's not like Jiang Cheng is exactly nice to him either in the present timeline. So there's some 'turnabout is fair play' involved there. I might think he's simply objectively wrong in some of his evaluations of Jiang Cheng, but from an emotional perspective it makes sense and is probably on the mild side, all things considered.

In some ways, I think Wei Wuxian is somewhat invested in the idea of being someone that lets anything and everything go. Partially because it's true that he really does let go of a lot, perhaps to the point where the line is between a healthy amount of letting go and plain avoidance could be called into question, but also because it's what Jiang Yanli told him that's what he was like:

Jiang YanLi said that he was born with a smiling look. No matter what unfortunate thing happened, he wouldn't cling on to them; no matter what situation he was in, he would be happy.

-- Ch. 24, ExR translation

To some extent I think he wants to live up to that, to still be who his shijie said he is, back before everything horrible happened and he was trapped in a downward spiral. So he tries to suppress the greater part of both his anger and resentment, but it still sort of... leaks out, in all those small comments.

In some ways they're mirror opposites of each other: Jiang Cheng is aggressively bitter and angry to suppress how much he still cares about Wei Wuxian, and Wei Wuxian is comparatively civil and pleasant, considering the circumstances, to suppress the genuine pain and anger he feels.

And in some way, that response - the muted sort of civility - sets Jiang Cheng off even more, because it plays so strongly into his fears and insecurities that he cares more about Wei Wuxian than Wei Wuxian cares about him. The way their personalities and coping mechanisms and miscommunications all compound and echo off each other and create this awful swirling chasm between them is tragic but also rings so painfully true.

I think their first big confrontation after Jiang Cheng knows for sure that he was right, that it's really Wei Wuxian - in the inn after Jiang Cheng 'borrows' Fairy - really encapsulates that dynamic between them.

Although his face had always been clouded, marked with arrogance and satire, it seemed as if every corner of it had come alive. It was difficult to determine whether it was vengeful wrath, fathomless hatred, or raving ecstasy.

-- Ch. 23. Love or hate, that's... a lot of feelings going on right there on Jiang Cheng's side. And then (from his perspective) he gets a whole lot of bland nothing back.

For a moment, no one spoke a word. The cup of tea was still steaming hot. Without having a single sip of it, he hurled it onto the ground. Jiang Cheng pulled a curt smile on his face, "... Don't you have anything to say to me?" […] With a sincere tone, Wei WuXian replied: "I don't know what to say to you." Jiang Cheng whispered: "You really don't learn, do you?"

And then to add insult to injury, later in the scene what finally provokes a real response from Wei Wuxian is insulting Lan Wangji.

If I had to take a stab at it, I'd probably say that Jiang Cheng's terrible reaction to non-reactions probably has something to do with his father's vague non-confrontational disappointment and general apathy, on top of just being infuriating in general.

But it's the scene in ch. 32 where the random children are playing out the Sunshot campaign where we see that Wei Wuxian's really not so unbothered about what happened between them at all:

"Jiang Cheng", "Hmph, I can't be better than you? Do you remember how you died?" The light smile on Wei WuXian's face dissipated at once. It was as if he had suddenly been pricked by a poisonous needle. A faint, sharp pain came from all around his body.

Even though it's the situation as seen through third parties who only having rumors to go off of (and the novel reminds us over and over again how accurate that is, even following up in later chapters to have Wei Wuxian clarify), it's obvious that being reminded of the general situation actually is pretty painful for him even if the details aren't particularly accurate. It takes him by surprise and hits where it hurts.

I think this whole pattern between the two of them plays heavily into the lead-up to the Ancestral Hall confrontation, actually - which is also where Wei Wuxian's sourness and dismissiveness is at its peak, and so is Jiang Cheng's fury and bitterness at Wei Wuxian's flippant attitude.

From Jiang Cheng's perspective, he's having just how little Wei Wuxian cares about him shoved in his face right after he'd just been prepared to do something that looks vaguely like dying for him at the Second Siege. Meanwhile, I'm pretty sure Wei Wuxian doesn't know any of that preparing-to-sacrifice-himself stuff even happened, since he was a little busy turning himself into bait with spirit lure flags and all.

So, as usual, everything is horribly amplified by all the things each of them doesn't know about the other. All the things they don't know they don't know come to a head.

Unfortunately only Jiang Cheng comes out of that Ancestral Hall really knowing anything that he didn't know before.

For most of the novel, there's also just... less that he knows about Wen Ning and Lan Wangji. There's so much less baggage, less intensity.

Wen Ning, bless him, Wei Wuxian only knew as a living person for one afternoon at an archery tournament and then for three days at the Supervisory Office in Yiling. (Well, plus the time spent on the mountain for the golden core transfer but I don't think they were sitting around chatting over a nice cup of tea for that.) Of course some of what Wen Ning does really does deserve praise - he did help them at great personal danger to himself. But does Wei Wuxian even really know him? Wen Ning's suppressed resentment in life becomes a powerful tool for Wei Wuxian later, but how much does he really know about his hopes and fears and dreams? A significant chunk of time in the Burial Mounds is spent with no consciousness on Wen Ning's part, and once he regains consciousness there's still this sort of... lingering weird vibe with them until the very end of the novel when Wen Ning becomes more independent. There's genuine friendship, but there's also a sort of avoidance of ever really touching the topic of how Wen Ning feels about being used as his weapon, about being raised as a fierce corpse, about the possibility of being controlled by him, about the decisions Wei Wuxian made for him.

Wen Ning is also just... easy to like. He's sweet and polite -- and he never really pushes back or questions Wei Wuxian's decisions or hits him where it hurts the way Jiang Cheng does.

All he really knows about Lan Wangji for a good chunk of the novel is that he's the goody-two-shoes Lan from summer camp who condemns evil or whatever. Obviously that perception changes drastically throughout the story as more information is revealed and misunderstandings from the past are corrected, but he'd never really had any expectations in his past life for LWJ, and so it left far less room for disappointment, since he didn't realize how LWJ really felt. So what's not to praise?

Of course from a more meta standpoint LWJ is frequently used as a direct contrast to Jiang Cheng, often in ways that are intentionally deceptive on MXTX's part in service to the overall goal of trickle-truthing us about Jiang Cheng over the course of the novel. The setup is constantly reframing his character with tidbits of new information. For example the way Wei Wuxian reacts when seeing Lan Wangji's discipline whip scars in ch. 11 is clearly meant to lead us to believe Jiang Cheng committed some horrible transgression to recieve his own discipline whip scar... and then we find out actually it was from Wen Chao torturing him after the fall of the Jiang sect, because he foolishly, impulsively rushed back to recover his parents' bodies from Lotus Pier, forcing his long-suffering shixiong to sacrifice his own core... except oh wait, that's not what happened at all, except Wei Wuxian doesn't know that last part. So some of the early comparisons I think were also meant to serve that purpose.

But in terms of how Wei Wuxian uses this sort of dismissiveness to avoid confronting how much he's really lost, I think the way he regards Lotus Pier itself is pretty telling:

Although he had always dreamed of returning to Lotus Pier once more, he didn't want to go back to the tattered one nowadays!

Because isn't it just easier to think about how it's not that great anyway, so who cares if you've lost it?

#thinking too much about them again #yunmeng shuangjie feelings #I probably have more thoughts on this topic that I forgot before I wrote them down because really it can go on forever #there's just so much!#they're just so them!#they make me so stupid over them!#they keep me up at night thinking about tragic inevitability!

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rayan12sworld · 6 months

Text

Baby, You Ain't Seen Nothing Yet

By:TriviasFolly

Summary:

For thirteen years, Wei Wuxian had been cautious. He hadn't done anything that could risk his new identify as Mo Xuanyu. He'd distanced himself from anything that had to do with the Clans he grew up with. Only for one coworker's sick kid to cause his past to come hurtling back at him.

His past, of course, is named Lan Wangji. And this time, he won't let Wei Wuxian go.

Chapter:19/?

Words:111,721

Status:ongoing

Tumbler :@triviasfolly

[Additional Tags:Alternate Universe, Omegaverse, Alpha/Beta/Omega Dynamics, Omega Verse, Alpha Lán Zhàn | Lán Wàngjī, Omega Wèi Yīng | Wèi Wúxiàn, Omega Lán Yuàn | Lán Sīzhuī, Alternate universe - Mafia, Alternate Universe - Crime, Alternate Universe - Clans, Alternate Universe - Modern Setting, Sects are Clans, Feral Wei Wuxian, Feral Omegas, once again making WWX a feral murdering machine, Nurse Wèi Yīng | Wèi Wúxiàn, Dark Lán Zhàn | Lán Wàngjī, Dark Wèi Yīng | Wèi Wúxiàn, Possessive Behavior, Possessive Lán Zhàn | Lán Wàngjī, Wei Wuxian plays with his fem side, feminine Wèi Yīng | Wèi Wúxiàn, wwx's cannon desire to be a sugar baby/trophy wife, Breeding Kink, Mpreg, wwx tries to use lwj but catches feels, and lwj knew what he was doing all along, wwx posing as mo xuanyu, wwx 'secret' identity, meandering self indulgent plot, no seriously it goes where ever the vibes take me, No beta we die like wwx, WWX and LWJ have dating histories]

Drunk lan jingyi....so cute 😭😭

“So confusing,” Lan Jingyi muttered. His eyes following Wei Wuxian in a way Lan Wangji wasn’t particularly fond of. “Confusing?” Lan Wangji prodded. “He’s so,” Lan Jingyi flushed red. “Pretty.” “Pretty,” Lan Wangji’s teeth began to itch. “Like a mom.” ~~~

Nice,” Lan Sizhui yawned from where he was nestled against Wei Wuxian’s side. “Mn,” Lan Jingyi yawned against Lan Wangji’s chest. “Like a real family.” Lan Wangji nearly jolted as the words pulled a pleased pur from Wei Wuxian’s chest. He smiled as he caught a hint of red in Wei Wuxian’s face before it was nuzzling into Lan Wangji’s neck. The boys were out before the halfway point of the movie, victims to the nest. Lan Wangji wasn’t sure either of them ever remembered being in one. It was amazing how Wei Wuxian could fix things Lan Wangji didn’t even realize were broken. Lan Wangji kept his words soft as he murmured them into the crown of Wei Wuxian’s head. I love you.

~~~

It was Lan Xichen’s time to growl. “If you wish to challenge-” “Maybe I will,” Lan Wangji hissed through his teeth. It earned him the satisfaction of seeing Lan Xichen’s eyes widen in surprise. “Because I know I would have the backing, because of my mate. Something you’d know if you looked past his skirt. Instead, you’ve no doubt been arming your friends with the knowledge you find my mate a slut.” “I would neve-” “Do not lie to me,” Lan Wangji cut him off. The words were falling from his mouth in a torrent, years of remaining silent rushing from his lips. “It is not the first time you have confided in them, or did you think I do not know the rumors?” “I don’t know wh-” “The only person who I told I loved Wei Wuxian was you,” Lan Wangji barreled over him. “No one saw me leave with him, no one else knew I’d mated him. You were the only one I trusted.” The words made Lan Xichen flinch, as if Lan Wangji had slapped him in the face. “I put up with the rumors back then, but this time your words do not just affect me. They affect my mate and my son.” “Sizhui-” “Loves him,” Lan Wangji didn’t care what protest his brother would supply. “Sizhui reached out and connected with him on his own. Now, SIzhui is trying to fight the rumors that call the man he calls mama every omega insult under the sun.” He took a breath to level a glare at his brother. “My son, who I must remind you is an omega.” The first flash of shame went across Lan Xichen’s face. “Think about that the next time you disparage my mate and throw the word omega slut around.” Without waiting for his brother’s reply. Lan Wangji marched out. ~~~good , lan xichen needed it, does he have to disappoint lan wangji like this 😒😒

Lan furen ,” Lan Wangji smeared the title across Wei Wuxian’s neck along with blood. The buttons of his shirt popped and skittered across the floor as Lan Zhan tore it open. The golden eyes burned as he peered up at Wei Wuxian. “ Furen .” “Furen,” Wei Wuxian repeated. He gasped as Lan Wangji decided licking wasn’t enough, his teeth sinking into the meat of his peck. “You like that?” He tried to tease, but he was too off-kilter for it to have his usual teasing oomph. The rumbling purr from Lan Wangji was more than enough answer. “Here I thought being your little wife was enough.” “Never enough,” The smallest furrow formed in Lan Wangji’s brow. “O-” The word was knocked from Wei Wuxian’s lips as his back hit the wall. “Oh?” “You are mine,” Lan Wangji’s eyes smoldered as a hand reached out to loop a finger through the ring at Wei Wuxian’s throat. “Until the whole world knows, I will never be happy.”

“Wei Ying,” Lan Wangji soothed him with a kiss. “He made you furen.” “I was there,” Wei Wuxian huffed. “If I fuck up one thing he’s going to have my head.” Ge, why does mama live away from everyone else? It just happens sometimes, A-Zhan. The important thing is we can still see her right? And bring her flowers! The memories hit Lan Wangji like a freight truck. Fear seeped in as cold as the snow he remembered seeping in through the knees of his pants. How could he forget the only Lan Furen he and his brother knew? He felt his jaw tighten. Was that his brother’s play? Make it seem like he was accepting Wei Wuxian only to write him up for something minor and have him exiled? “I’m glad we have an understanding,” Wei Wuxian sighed, having misread Lan Wangji’s internal monologue. “We’ll just table all of it.” “No,” Lan Wangji felt a fire light bright within. If Lan Xichen wanted to play this game, he’d picked the wrong opponent. Did he really think Lan Wangji would sit back and watch him give Wei Wuxian the same treatment their mother did? Maybe if it was the first time they bonded, Lan Wangji might have accepted it. He would have seen it as the atonement for saving Wei Wuxian. But now? Now he had the taste of a life with Wei Wuxian. He wasn’t going to settle for anything less. “We do all of it.” “Lan Zhan-” “He made you furen because it no longer benefits him to keep you out,” Lan Wangji explained. “You’ve become popular with the family, to the point where he’s worried I might bid to take his place. He sees this as appeasing me.”

"I’ll be here for you the whole way.” Lan Wangji murmured, pulling him close.

~~~ good 👍 👌 👏, I really like this Lan Wangji, it's good that he won't settle for nothing His decision cemented in his mind as their heartbeats matched. Wei Wuxian wouldn't loose this life, he wouldn't be exiled. Lan Wangji would make sure of it. Even if it meant disposing of his own brother.

~~~wow I have nothing to say😭😭 he is really amazing

#wangxian #wangxian recommendations #mdzs #mxtx mdzs #wangxian fanfic #ao3 recs #the untamed #mdzs fanfic rec #Baby #You Ain't Seen Nothing Yet

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llycaons · 8 months

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ep32 (2/3): sect leader yao: how dare you! murdering innocent people is wrong! wwx: are you FUCKING kidding me-

wwx continuiing to defend himself - HE was the one to get ambushed!

such a cool line his is so hot

the laughing-crying is another EXCELLENT part of this scene. 1. wwx as a character is strongly associated with mirth, but this is a miserable and twisted laughter that conveys and brings no joy, just expresses how far he's been pushed and how close he is to his breaking point. 2. villainous laughter is a part of so many cliches and fairy tales - how many disney movies have you seen with a darkly chuckling villain or cackling megalomaniac? it fits the perception people have of him as an uncaring and malicious demon

this is such a good point! I think for wwx especially, who's had a long life of sacrifice, or unfair punishment, and of serving others, this rankles him particularly. I don't blame him for being sick of it

this is so galling omg sect leader yao being like 'all those people who you killed were innocent! how can you be so callous!" and wwx responding like 'AND THE FARMERS WHOSE LIVES I WAS TRYING TO SAVE WEREN'T???'

and this is so fucking cruel, to wwx who cares SO much and who has such a strong moral compass. this is what myu attacks him with, what jc throws in his face. diminishing and disrespecting his values and his actions. he's not out to be a hero, he's literally just trying to do the right thing and stick to his principles and all he's getting is shit from every single person around him and that INCLUDES lwj he FAILED esp in this episode and he knows it

ASKING TO PROVE A NEGATIVE!! LOGICAL FALLACY YOU BITCH

this is kind of funny. who is this irrelevant bitch. it does open up wwx for one of his greatest lines tho

I wrote a whole post about this because I didn't want it to be hidden but I love this line and I think it demonstrates important things abt wwx's character and outlook that make his relationship with lwj extremely stable

also 'you're so insignificant why would I ever care what side you're on?' lmao

this is was badass I love this so much. IS he keeping himself alive with resentful energy at this point? fuck, who knows?

HELL YEAH THEY'RE BREAKING OUT THE FIREBIRD SUITE. I think. fuck

honestly I find this action scene extremely drawn-out and boring but oh god this hurt me so bad

this was kind of a funny shot where nmj was spinning around then the camera moved behind a post and then it just stopped for a second then went to a completely different shot. thanks for showing us the back of this post I guess

WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN!!!! wow the aesthetics here rule. the contrast. wwx is like barely holding on look at how red his eyes are

I wonder if lxc thinks that wwx is so far gone he'd hurt lwj

oof. obviously they don't want to but I don't think wwx in his paranoia and isolation sees another way out

I've complained before about it not making sense that postres wwx avoided lwj (because they were friends in the flahback!), but if I'm being fair, lwj did in fact attack wwx. with his sword. and I can see wwx waking up and being really leery about what lengths lwj would go to subdue him again.

I'm sure he knew lwj didn't want to kill him - after all, they have such a history and lwj did save him, at the very end. but there's a huge difference between wanting him dead and wanting to support and protect and hide him, and wwx wasn't expecting lwj to offer him that. because he hasn't, historically, look, he;s trying to fight him right here. and he's made it clear in the past that his feelings are secondary to his sect and the path of orthodoxy. so wwx is entirely justified in all his reactions, in fact

ALSO it's kind of hard to tell in screenshots but lwj looks extremely distressed in context I promise

JUST SAY A-YUAN IS ALIVE. JUST SAY IT. THREE WORDS. SPIT IT OUT. god. useless boyfriend

#cql re-rewatch

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dragonji · 2 years

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i think the most surprisingly prevalent premise for wgxn fic that really catches me off guard every time I see it is the sheer amount of time-travel fic, specifically time-travel fix-it fic circa sunshot/burial mounds arcs. Im mostly talking abt postcqueel-release fic btw since that tends to be what I read way more often. Anyways I suppose I can kind of get why that would be an intriguing prompt to explore as an author but if I'm being honest no matter how well-written or interesting a fix it fic is, they almost always fall flat or become just plain unrealistic and cheapen the characters in a way that grates on me like very little else. Will be expanding on this below:

So like the whole Point of the events of sunshot and burial mounds arcs IS that so much of it was motivated by people making the inevitable choice for themselves because of who they are. And yes I acknowledge in certain characters the foreknowledge would absolutely change their actions (particularly lwj- and in turn affect his relationship w wwx- jc, sl, lxc, etc) but imo all that that does is lessen the strength of actual canon.

The reason that these characters are so compelling and fascinating is precisely that they all care So Strongly about other characters/their ideals that the original decisions they made at those times were the only courses of action they saw as an option. And because of that they experience the consequences of those choices and are forever changed and (generally) grow and learn from them. As for the characters whose choices likely would not change even if they were given ability to (wwx, wn and wq, nhs to an extent) they're in the same situation- their morals or relationships or dedication left them with no other options than what they chose originally! But back to my earlier point of those who have possibly-resolvable regrets from their pasts; having a version of themself go back and change events to lessen these regrets feels to me like cheapening the ways they mature (or don't!) because of said pasts.

Take for example lwj (since we know more about him than the others mentioned and also bc I've spent the most time considering him lol): say current-lwj either replaces or advises sunshot-lwj on how to interact with wwx. In either scenario, a lwj with knowledge of his future might be able to make some progress by virtue of acting in unexpected ways and being a better communicator, but for wwx at that time the abrupt accomodation and shift from what wwx expects lwj to think about his cultivation and actions would in all likelihood make him even More guarded and avoidant of lwj, in order to avoid his guilt or the possibility of lwj chosing him over lwj's own standing and reputation and etc. We already see wwx struggling with these issues in his postres life, so adding that to his mental state during SS/BM would undoubtedly make it even worse. For lwj himself, I don't deny that he would feel relief and something like closure at being able to clearly state his intentions at that time, but like I've said- both of them were in situations that had no easy answer, and both would still end up with their own shares of grief and guilt even if they had been able to communicate effectively. And besides that, the aftermath of BM is what launched lwj into questioning and reforming his teachings+priorities+worldview, and without that catalyst it just doesn't feel anywhere as natural or fitting for him to become who he does. Add to that the fact that a majority of fix-its operating on this premise involve wgxn getting together during or shortly after that time as the 'solution' to their conflicts and its just amplifies how Off something like that would be! A romantic/sexual relationship would not have solved the issues either of them were dealing with, and acting like it could just completely ignores what is to me one of if not Thee major hook of the story- the interplay of politics and reputation and personal morals, and how characters choose to act within the varied confines of what is expected of them by others, their families/peers, and themselves.

Never let it be said that I think suffering is necessary for a happy ending but esp with a story like this, The Tragedy Is the Story, yknow? The pain that the characters experience is precisely what makes the conclusions to each storyline so much more impactful, whether that conclusion is rewarding or upsetting. Every single choice made during those arcs hugely affects that character's thoughts and actions postres, and shutting it off midway with a 'theyre fine actually!' just cuts down all of that potential.

#j.txt #all that said I promise im not actually bothered by it or by people who enjoy it lol. its just very much not something I'm interested-#in considering 97% of the time (<took off a bit bc theres two or three fics w timetravel premises that i still thouroughly enjoy)#and good lord Sorry for how long this got. didnt realize I had that much to say when I started typing</3 #anyways these r just some thoughts! s/o to cor for posting abt fix its and reminding me i had this in the drafts mwah

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annalacerda17 · 2 years

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I saw a post the other day saying that everyone in MDZS is the hero of their own story and my annoyance with that post led me to write this.

It's ridiculous that some ppl can read the entire book and come out of it thinking everyone is the hero of their own story, or say that if someone else was the main characters, they'd be the hero instead. They wouldn't, because their actions aren't heroic. A main character doesn't have to be a hero. If anyone other than WWX and LWJ were the MCs it wouldn't make them the hero, it would only change the genre of the story.

If MDZS was entirely from JGY's pov it would be a villain centric story, like the Villainous Friends extra. He still wouldn't be the hero, because he's a horrible person who committed atrocities for the sake of achieving power and prestige. JGY himself doesn't think of himself as a hero. Rather, he doesn't care about the morality of his choices, only about how they benefit him personally.

JC, on the other hand, could never have been the protagonist or the pov character. He's just not the kind of character who can carry an entire novel. He's too whiny, he's not particularly intelligent, he's easy to manipulate, his personality is terrible and he never once learns from his mistakes. JC stans like him because he only shows up in small doses to throw himself a pity party he hasn't earned and then goes away, he's never the most important charcter at any point in the story and he isn't well liked by anyone, so he's easy for ppl who have an inferiority complex to self insert into. But if the entire book was from his pov? He'd annoy even his most hardcore stans before the end of the first chapter. And his personal story is just not interesting enough to have a book centered on it. In any case, his actions aren't heroic, so if there was a book written from his pov, with him as the MC (and I mean canon Jiang Cheng, here, not the distorted fanon version) he'd still not be the hero.

If the story was told from Xue Yang's pov, it would probably be a tragedy with no hero (since he only meets WWX soon before his well deserved death and doesn't get to witnes any of WWX's heroic acts aside from XY's own demise, he dies before WWX and LWJ manage to uncover the truth about JGY, and he never gets to see the truth about WWX come out).

My point is, being the MC does not make a hero, and the audience can cheer for any character they have fun reading about or watching, even if they're horrible ppl.

If MDZS had been written from anyone else's pov it wouldn't be MDZS, because WWX is the only character capable of carrying the themes of the novel. It's very important that WWX is not a member of the gentry, it's very important that WWX doesn't hold grudges, it's very important that WWX is willing to do the right thing regardless of personal cost or past suffering, it matters that WWX doesn't undervalue himself because of his lower social status, it's important that WWX won't let others tell him what's right and what's wrong. An MC without those traits couldn't carry this specific story with those specific themes.

If anyone else was the MC, it would be an entirely different story with different themes, and this other MC wouldn't necessarily be a hero.

#mdzs

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neverdoingmuch · 3 years

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Wait cql lawyer/law school AU

i got you my pal dont worry!!

law school, im gonna be honest and say i know like nothing about law or law school so pls ignore any inconsistencies or inaccuracies

lwj goes to law school and he is definitely the top student in his class. they’ve been there for like a month and everyone already knows he’s gonna be the best

his one and only competition is this dude called wei wuxian but lwj isn’t particularly worried about him

so far they’re still in the stage of the course where they do the fun things to sucker people into doing the class for the semester so there’s been some practise debates and arguments and stuff in their tutorial classes

wei wuxian has that Charisma and like yeah all of his arguments are perfect but also he has an amazing smile and people are like yes i can trust him

(he’s definitely the sort to be like hm, the easy way to argue this case would be to quote some laws and use precedence to justify this but that’s boring)

lwj is also good at that sort of stuff because his arguments are perfect and everything is so perfectly researched that there should be no ground at all for someone to lodge a counterargument

(wei wuxian manages somehow and it makes lwj so mad)

but that’s whatever lwj thinks,, a lot of people join law thinking it’s gonna be like the tv shows and books and then get completely blindsided when it comes to the rote learning part or like the actual laws

and for all of wwx’s confidence, lwj hasn’t actually seen wwx so much as touch the textbook/s and he always studies in the law library so he knows that wwx has probably never even been there bc he hasn’t seen him even once (why’s he looking? bc he needs to see which books wwx uses to study,, bc there has to be something going on there,, obviously)

then they do their first like proper written assignment and lwj and wwx tie for the highest scores and now lwj has a Rival and he refuses to lose to someone who thinks that putting a ‘-us’ sound at the end of a word makes it latin (did wwx say habeas corpus and then point at a soft drink and go sprite-us can-us,,, maybe,,,,)

anyway! lwj and wwx are kinda rivals for the top spot and it’s one of those situations where one test lwj wins by a point but then the next test wwx gets full marks and they just keep exchanging the top spot in class

and this whole time wwx is like The Worst to have in class. he’s always interrupting to ask questions or just straight up not listening and spends the class doodling pictures of rabbits (they’re cute but wwx is terrible and he’s not allowed to make cute drawings)

so after a few months the most horrible thing happens.... they get put together in a project and lwj is like ugh. internally of course but his face is also saying ugh

the first time wwx and lwj get together to work on the project, lwj is prepared with a proper list of tasks to do all nicely split up between the two of them and a schedule for when they should get certain parts done by.

needless to say, lwj does not expect wwx to be ready, but wwx is definitely on top of things

he rocks up and is like yeah let’s do this, this and this and have them done by this time - basically proposing to do everything that lwj has already written down

and lwj is pleasantly surprised and is like hm maybe i misjudged wwx and decides to like re-evaluate his opinion on him

in doing so he realises that when he’d never seen wwx studying, it wasn’t an exaggeration at all. he’s never seen wwx so much as touch a textbook or spend more than a minute on a laptop doing something that wasn’t minesweeper or solitaire

but wwx is also making all of their deadlines and even adds extra information and resources to their document that could be useful elsewhere and sometimes he shows up to their study sessions and he looks absolutely exhausted

eventually lwj manages to get the truth out and wwx is just like yeah it’s easier to get worse grades than a genius but if you both study and you still get lower grades, it’s not easy,, for jc or for me

so wwx usually studies at night when his brother is asleep and lwj is like that’s bad, you can’t keep that up and just when wwx is about to go off at him lwj is like you can come study at my place

and thus begins the wonderful time where everything is alright and lwj falls in love with wwx

they work really well together and wwx is strangely considerate and nice? when he finds out lwj likes rabbits, he goes out and buys bunny post-it notes for lwj and starts to always bring him a doodle of bunnies every time he comes over. he always gets his work done on time, early even, and his work is always so brilliant and every time wwx smiles at him, lwj feels warm inside etc etc

for a long while lwj is like yes (: this is friendship (: bc he’s never had a crush before but then on the day they submit their project wwx is like hey,, the two of us make a great team,, we should always work together,, now and next year and even when we graduate,, i want to help the innocent people who need our help and i think i’d like it a lot if you joined me and lwj has his oh moment

they get a perfect score on the project of course and even after it finishes, wwx keeps coming over to lwj’s place to study or just hang out and lwj is just falling more and more for wwx each day

they’re best friends now and everyone gets used to seeing them work together on projects and then turn around to try and decimate each other when they’re working one on one and lwj thinks that he might just be the happiest he’s ever been

but then one day wwx doesn’t show up to class. it shouldn’t be strange but wwx has never missed class even once and he ends up hearing from lxc who heard from jgy that wwx was caught sabotaging some other student’s work (the other student was jzxun, who had a fondness for playing devil’s advocate and other than wwx once telling him that his argument was shit, wwx never spoke to him or seemed to know who he was but lwj is a bit too angry to remember that)

he manages to find wwx outside of his dorms as he’s moving out and he’s just like why did you do that? and wwx is like oh y’know,, bc he’s not really sure what’s happening himself,, one second he was at the top of his class and the next he was being brought before a board and being told that he was being expelled but he’s not going to tell lwj that bc lwj would definitely try and stand up for him and then they’d both get expelled

but lwj is furious and just spits out well if our dreams meant so little to you then maybe it’s a good thing you failed now,, bc his mother was a lawyer who took all these little jobs that helped people who actually needed the help and lwj was looking forward to doing that with wwx and he doesn’t even seem to care that now they can’t do that

wwx flinches and then smiles at him and just cheerily says, that’s me and leaves. he doesn’t look back and lwj doesn’t chase after him.

lwj doesn’t see him again for years (you can do 13 or 5 or however long you feel like)

lwj is a fully licensed lawyer and he’s working for the family company and he spends half of his time working on cases and uses the rest of his time to do like outreach programs where he goes and visits schools and runs sessions on what it’s like to be a lawyer, how to apply, and to provide assistance to any students who decide to study law at uni

and then at one of these programs he meets this kid, wen yuan, who is ridiculously bright and enthusiastic and has a smile that seems oddly familiar

at the end of the second session he comes up to lwj and is like mr. lan, is your name lan wangji? and lwj just says yes, expecting the kid to be a fan of one of his cases or something but then wen yuan is like oh wow! i thought i recognised you from my dad’s photo!

and lwj isn’t expecting much but he asks what the photo looks like and wen yuan pulls out this photo from his pocket and lwj immediately recognises it,, it’s the only photo he has of him and wwx

your father is wei ying? lwj asks him and wen yuan is like yes, hesitates, and then asks, would you like to see him?

and that’s how lwj finds himself following wen yuan to some dinky little office that has a plaque outside that reads wen and wei

(wen ning is the nicest and sweetest person ever and lots of people underestimate him but then he’s an absolute monster on court. he gets up and completely decimates the opponent and then at the end is like (: it was so nice to meet you!! i am baby!! and all that,, you know our boy)

anyway they walk in and wwx turns to greet wen yuan but then he sees lwj and is like woah! you! and he’s not sure whether to hide or go and hug lwj so he just gives him a fist bump,, like a bro,, and immediately wants to shrivel up and die

anyway they get the reunion stuff out of the way, swelling music, tender wrist holding, lots of staring, lwj silently declaring his wholehearted love for wwx and refusing to believe rumours about him again even though he doesn’t actually know what happened, you know how it goes

from wwx’s side of things,, after he got kicked out he went to some small uni. good in its own right but not known for their law program and ended up specialising in family law

the first case he ever won was for the wens to have the right to keep custody of a-yuan and the first case wen ning ever won was to let wwx adopt a-yuan bc i’m soft like that

so wwx has just been kinda vibing,, being a single dad, living with the wens and helping to make that difference he always promised he would

now this isn’t gonna be some au where lwj goes oh my! i must give up my high salary job and work with wwx! bc lwj has been doing good stuff at his current job and for all of his family’s stuffiness, they run a fair and just company

but! he does end up helping wwx when wwx gets a letter with a bunch of information about the jins and how they’re actually super corrupt and evil (big surprise,,) and how wwx was maybe definitely framed bc he was doing some casual work on the side and stumbled across some bad shit on the jins back in uni

lwj ends up being the one to take the case officially but wwx is definitely the guy leading it and so lwj ends up spending most of his time at the wen-wei office

lwj definitely bonds with wen yuan, who also wants to go into law, and writes him recommendation letters and helps him edit his applications and stuff

(and one day wen yuan is like leaving you was the hardest thing dad ever did and i dont think you appreciated how much he cared about you. he really did think that he annoyed you ‘til the end and lwj is like no! he didn’t! and wen yuan is like yeah i know but you gotta tell him and lwj really does mean to but the time is never right or something like that but also wen yuan is all but calling lwj dad at this point)

anyway they end up going to court, side by side, working as a team just as they promised to do and just as they finish their final day on the case, ended with the jury ruling jgy guilty and wwx’s reputation all but saved, wwx turns around and flings himself at lwj

is he crying? is he laughing? a bit of both tbh but wwx ends up confessing right then and there, still on record and everything (is that how that works??? idk! let’s say it does)

and what can lwj do but make out with him?

did a news crew come in to film the results of this massive court case just to end up with five minutes of wangxian kissing?? maybe! but when it played on tv it meant wwx and lwj didnt have to actually tell anyone they got together

(and does lwj eventually pop the question using wwx’s bad latinification? yes and wwx is too busy laughing to accept at first but he does and they end up being the worst possible tutors for wen yuan as he goes through law school bc they keep being all gross and lovey-dovey and acting like law school is the most romantic place in the world)

#mdzs #Anonymous #modao zushi #wei wuxian #lan wangji #wangxian #cql #the untamed #mo dao zu shi #all of my understanding of law comes from the pelican brief which i read over 10 years ago and one seminar on law courses at uni #so sorry if it's bad #):#lan sizhui #also i stand by wen yuan #let him keep his last name!#my aus #asks

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rabbitcrimes · 3 years

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I love so many things about the moral ambiguities of the bitches in the untamed but one of my favorite little nuances is that wwx has absolutely no problem with lying if he thinks it’s what he needs to do to accomplish something, even (and especially!) if that means hiding something from or str8 up lying to the people who love him the most. I just think that’s such an interesting characterization for a character that wants desperately to be on the side of justice. That he’s a liar! That he’s a liar and that he lies specifically to keep himself at a safe emotional distance from the people who love him and to try to stay in control of his relationships and doesn't think twice about it.

This strategy works honestly very well for him ESPECIALLY with Jiang Cheng, who usually knows something is up but is baited so easily that he can’t see the smoke and mirrors for what they are. And then you have Jiang Yanli who knows he’s lying to her BUT who he allows to be as close to him as anyone because she lets him lie and pretends she doesn’t know he's doing it, actively choosing loving him over the truth. And then you have Wen Qing, who I think has a pretty real idea of what he’s capable of both in terms of heroism and horrors and is absolutely playing her own game of lies and love and distance with him. She lets him play his little games but there’s this sense with her that she's letting him think he's winning, which I LOVE for them. Like a sort of third path, where she's like 'ok, we can lie to each other, but I'll gut you like a fish if you make me, be apprised' and he's like 'cool cool cool noted, very fair.'

But Lan Wangji...... sweet Lan Wangji :((( Like okay the worst part is that lying is obviously forbidden in cloud recesses and lwj has all of his moral codes but Lan Wangji of ALL people sees the value of a well placed lie and the VALUE of keeping people at a safe emotional distance. Like that's his Whole Thing but he doesn't want to do that with Wei Wuxian, he wants them to be each others' exceptions and he’s waiting for wwx to just fucking ASK him to risk it all and wwx WON'T and it’s HORRIBLE!! Like for me it all comes back to that confrontation where Lan Wangji and Jiang Cheng first see wwx play the flute. It's the first time that wwx puts lwj at a distance and lwj pushes back on that distance because he thinks he's wwx's exception. But wwx doesn't know he feels that way!! He sees lwj pushing him to open up to him as a threat and a betrayal!! And Lwj is so shocked by wwx pushing him away that he panics and pushes back harder and in the span of like five minutes wwx has shut him out completely!!!! That’s!!!!!!!!!! Lwj realizing in hellfire slow motion that wwx has given him an ultimatum and that ultimatum is 'let me lie to you or leave me alone,' and lwj has no idea how to argue with that in a way that doesn’t push wwx further away.

And what rlly hits me abt all of this is that at some point I do think lwj realizes that wwx has his reasons for not trusting lwj and that half of them are that wwx cares about lwj too much to feel safe in honesty. Like I think he knows that, particularly after wwx comes back from the dead. He knows that wwx will lie to the people whose judgement actually matters to him specifically bc it matters to him. But there’s no way lwj can articulate that to him! And not only does wwx lie, but he throws his entire heart into the smoke and mirrors of the lie. And how that must break lwj's heart, to have him back after so many years and still wonder when and how wwx is lying to him and know that there's no small chance that he wouldn't know and he wouldn't be able to do anything about it and it’s horrible !!!! Lwj is practically skywriting 'YOU CAN TELL ME ANYTHING I DON'T CARE HOW MANY MURDERS YOU DO WE'RE WELL PAST THAT' and wwx is like 'hmmmm we will see.' And all lwj wants is to be wwx's exception!!! Extremely ‘you will do the thing you always do /and I’ll watch/‘ like WHAT a nuance!! Ahh!!!!!

And OKAY the place that it all really turns for me is that scene where Lan Wangji is like asking Wei Wuxian where he was for sixteen years and wwx is like "If I say I don't know, would you believe me" and lwj is like "I believe you." As a contrast to when lwj asks where he was when he was missing for three months and pushes and pushes until wwx shuts him out. And I love this moment because it's ostensibly the truth but maybe it's not, you know? Wei Wuxian doesn't say 'I don't know' he says '/if/ I said I didn't know, would you believe me?' And it doesn't seem to matter if it's the truth to either of them. It's Wei Wuxian saying 'do you trust me to do what I need to do and tell you what I need to tell you' and Lan Wangji saying 'of course I do.' Like it's not that they grow to a place where wwx always tells the truth or that lwj just has to accept that wwx lies its like they've moved to a place where something like that is secondary. Bc they've moved past the smoke and mirrors. Pretty sexy of them honestly

#wangxian #lan wangji #wei wuxian #im gonna #LOSE IT #also idk how supported a lot of this is by the book #but this is my read of the show #particularly that initial flute scene bc to ME #it feels like wwx pushing lwj away on purpose #me *weeping* TRUST #does this essay fall apart in the latter half? no idea #have been thinking about how HARD it is so write characters who lie #even tho people lie all the time #today i choose 'using my english degree for evil'

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canary3d-obsessed · 4 years

Text

Restless Rewatch: The Untamed Episode 05 (second part)

(Masterpost) (Continued from Episode 05 first part, over here)

Breaking News: Zewu-Jun Continues to be Handsome

Just. Look at that man.

Water Ghost Field Trip

Lans Xichen and Wangji are going ghost hunting and the Yunmeng boys want in. For a simple "can we come?" conversation, a whole lot happens here. Lan Wangji uses his mouth to say he definitely does not want these boys to come while using the rest of his face to secretly beg his brother to invite them.

Corporate recruiter Wei Wuxian advocates for Wen Qing, talking up her skills, and then does the same for Wen Ning. He pays careful attention to what everyone is good at, and advocates specifically based on their abilities. While Wen Ning makes heart eyes at him.

That’s my future dark master

Wei Wuxian also promises to protect Wen Ning, which he ultimately does for the rest of his first life. Wen Qing gives both Jiang boys a genuine sweet smile, and dismantles another anti-WWX ward or two, while still being very protective of her brother's secret.

Lan Xichen says yes to everybody. Lan Xichen is that indulgent elder sibling who's just a bit too old to play with you after school, but will take you to the park when he isn't too busy with varsity and debate club. [OP mentally hugs her third older brother]

Back at the Inn

Fastidious local boy dislikes dust; plans to build house on corpse pile

They get to town and Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian check into a room together. LAN XICHEN WHAT ARE YOU DOING? Each of these boys came to this town with his own brother, but they are rooming together, how did this even happen?

(more after the cut)

Does this mean Lan Xichen and Jiang Cheng are rooming together? and if so are they going to have a hot but ultimately meaningless one-night stand while each pines for the person they truly desire?

Wen Qing is rooming with her own brother, and the other hot girl cultivators stayed back in Gusu. Wen Qing never catches a break.

The innkeeper tells the Hardy Boys cultivators that there’s a shark ghosts in the lake and they’re going to have to close the beaches in the middle of July, oh dear.

Lan Wangji takes a lingering look at one of the beds and then goes to sit at the desk. Wei Wuxian tries to chat with him, fails, and goes and lies down on the bed. They’re not quite getting along yet but they’re moving in that direction, like when you bring a shelter cat home and introduce it to your established cat. Wei Wuxian is obviously the stray tabby in this metaphor, while Lan Wangji is one of those stuck-up Blue Russians.

Physically they are setting the template for many of their future domestic interactions, in which in which Lan Wangji meditates or plays guqin at his desk while Wei Wuxian lays in bed recovering from his latest physical or spiritual injury.

Walk from Dock to Dock

Instead of taking a boat from the dock directly outside the inn, the cultivators walk through a bunch of random countryside. How does anyone around here sell their fish, if the lake isn’t next to the town?

Wei Wuxian chats with Lan Xichen, laying out his case for why all the recent weirdness is connected. Lan Wangji, who has been shut out of his brother’s thinking on all of this, listens super carefully. Lan Xichen straight up lies and says “nuh-uh” and then walks faster to get away, so Wei Wuxian tries grilling Lan Wangji instead.

At this point WWX reveals that he, terrifyingly, shares Lan Xichen’s ability to tell what Lan Wangji is thinking by looking at his face.

Lan Wangji distracts him by pouring out his wine. This isn't LWJ being puritanical; he's escaping from the conversation by using the power of pettiness.

This works perfectly, getting Wei Wuxian to completely drop the subject and allowing Lan Wangji to make a run for it.

Note: Lan Wangji may have just now made up the “No Liquor on Night Hunts” rule, because Wei Wuxian asks him “why don’t I know that?” and if anyone knows Lan Clan rules at this point, it’s Wei Wuxian.

R-A-G-G M-O-P-P Rag Mop

They take a bunch of boats and all stand in the middles of the boats while they use magic, presumably, to move the boats and also to keep from falling the fuck over because you're not supposed to stand up in a boat, assholes.

Cue JAWS music.

Wei Wuxian cleverly spots a rag mop on Lan Wangji’s boat. I would like to know where the Department of Dubious Effects sources their goddamn nerve, because we are in Classic Doctor Who territory with these mop monsters.

Wei Wuxian is out here being impressive, and Lan Wangji is doing his good goddamnest to not be impressed, and to be a sulky bitch while he's at it. He rejects Wei Wuxian’s explanation for why he splashed water on his boat, and rejects this friendly shoulder bump, telling Wei Wuxian to stay away from him.

Look at how Wei Wuxian reacts to that. He is dangerously close to being done with Lan Wangji’s bullshit.

He is opening the fight playbook here. He takes a big ol’ step over the boundary that Lan Wangji just set, which means the first phase has begun.

Let’s take a moment to appreciate the not-at-all suggestive framing and prop placement in that shot.

Lan Xichen is amused at these two extremely deadly extremely horny youngsters getting ready to kill and/or make out with each other.

Suibian

Before this can turn into a fight, the water mops start attacking and Wei Wuxian gets to show off his sword skills.

Wei Wuxian’s crazy high level of cultivation always makes Lan Wangji weak in the knees, which is part of why it’s so distressing for LWJ when WWX gives up the sword during the Sunshot campaign. Cultivation is the heart of their romance, and while Dark Wei Ying is also a high-level cultivator, Lan Wangji isn’t ready to share his narrow path until much later.

Lan Wangji is impressed enough to ask Wei Wuxian about his sword, and is rewarded with the most Wei Wuxian answer ever, as he explains why he named his sword “Whatever.”

The important relationship being shown in this moment is not Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji, but Wei Wuxian and Suibian. You can see how he loves it and it's like he's talking about his pet.

And it loves him back, as we later learn. This comfortable symbiosis is part of what he gives up when he sacrifices his core.

Jiang Cheng gets injured by a seaweed mop and Dr. Wen hops over to help him and look at his leg, leaving Wen Ning alone in his boat. This doesn't actually cause a problem for Wen Ning because he's a very strong cultivator.

Later, as the Ghost General, he's more formidable than any other fierce corpse out there, and he is harder for Xue Yang to control than Song Lan is. Which means he’s right now he’s probably one of the more powerful cultivators of his generation in spite of his youth and his wandering-soul problem.

Dance of the Water Ghosts

Now things start to get dicey. Wen Ning notices the color of the water is wrong and Lan Wangji correctly deduces what the water ghosts are doing. Then Wei Wuxian correctly identifies the water demon. As a corporate teambuilding exercise this is going very well, but as a night hunt it is maybe a little more dangerous than expected.

Lan Wangji says everyone needs to ride their swords and all of the actors fling their arms out in a T and pretend they’re not just standing there in front of the camera. It’s so fucking ridiculous I can’t even.

However, it’s even worse when they show them standing on the swords. It’s SO MUCH WORSE when they show them standing on the swords.

Back to Corporate Strengths Finder 2.0: Su She has no strengths, just weaknesses. Instead of riding his sword he wants to take one last swipe at a rag mop. He sends his sword into the water and it loses its bluetooth connection and he can't get it to come back out.

The entire group of Lan clan disciples hop up into the air on their swords and not one of them tries to help Su She, which is hilarious.

Sweet baby Wen Ning, however, being a good lad, does go help him, and gets possessed, oops.

Wei Wuxian grabs Wen Ning and flinches when he sees his white eyes, but hangs on to him.

When Lan Wangji sees that Wei Wuxian is in danger he makes this face and goes and grabs him and Su She.

A hilarious midair conversation ensues, along with some relationship negotiation. Wangji is touch starved and aims to keep it that way. At least in public.

Lan Xichen fires up the battle flute and seals the water demon and oh my god how is he so elegant and beautiful?

What’s Wrong With The Baby

Wei Wuxian back at the Inn is checking on Wen Ning in a genuinely concerned way, having basically signed on as a co-elder sibling at this point, sensing that Wen Ning is broken. Wei Wuxian is friendly with everybody but he's particularly protective of anyone who's hurt.

Wen Qing shows up and tells him quite directly to get the fuck out, but he surprises her by understanding what's up with Wen Ning and making it clear that he's on her side as far as care for Wen Ning goes, while he still knows that she's up to something.

Giving Gifts to Girls, Yunmeng Brothers Style

Wei Wuxian: I deduced that your beloved brother has no personal firewall and can be possessed easily in spite of his high cultivation level, so I used my expertise to make a special talisman that can protect him from invasion by hostile entities. Here, even if you and I are sorta enemies I want him to have this. Also I’m going to throw in a casual acknowledgement of your professional expertise.

Jiang Cheng: I bought you a comb

Squeeze This

Wei Wuxian tosses an approximately testicle-sized loquat fruit to Lan Wangji and Lan Wangji catches it without looking, and an ENORMOUS romantic music cue swells up.

Then he rejects it and throws it back. He doesn't, of course, just avoid catching it in the first place because that wouldn’t be elegant and pointed enough. In a later episode, when they begin travelling together, Wei Wuxian will announce his presence in this same way, throwing a loquat fruit at to Lan Wangji, who will catch it and keep it.

Wei Wuxian tosses the rejected loquat over to Jiang Cheng, who catches it, not realizing he is going to be Wei Wuxian’s second choice man in every instance from this point onward.

Outtro

Soundtrack

Jaws music obvs

WuJi aka Wanxian which is playing constantly when they are in the library, presumably this is the sound in LWJ’s head

Lookin’ Out My Back Door by CCR

Nothing, from A Chorus Line

Rag Mop by the Ames Brothers (warning before you google it: this will give you a permanent earworm)

Writing prompt: Nie Huaisang and Jiang Cheng explore Gusu while WWX is stuck in the library

Restless Rewatch Episode 06 is here!

#fytheuntamed #the untamed #the untamed gifs #the untamed memes #wangxian #chen qing ling #the untamed spoilers #the untamed stills #restless rewatch #canary3d-original #restless rewatch the untamed #wei wuxian #wen qing #lan xichen #lan wangji #my gifs #cql not mzds but mzds is good too

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vrishchikawrites · 3 years

Note

JC's condemnation of WWX and the recent discussion about Lan Xichen made me wonder about how both characters failed their brothers (JC obv more than LXC) and the entire discussion about how things could've changed if JC had stood by WWX.

And that made me wonder of a scenario where Xichen for the sake of his brother, actually tightens his belt and visits WWX in the Burial Mounds- would that have made an effect? After all LXC doesn't know WWX at all and only through second hand accounts at this point so why not actually DO something about it.

Honestly i wonder about a comparison between LXC and Jiang Fengmian where both characters are the wait-and-see type and do the bare minimum of courtesy but never proactive enough to bring about a change or raise their voice. I don't dislike these sort of characters because they still feel better then the ones who accuse and vilify and have no control over their emotions, but they also feel like a cautionary tale of being too mild and trying to make everyone happy but failing completely.

I know everyone says LWJ is suppressed but sometimes I think LXC is worse. LWJ is eventually honest with himself but I feel like LXC lies to himself a LOT. So much that he actually believes it. Always smiling. Always unruffled. The First Jade of Lan.

The cast is so big it's a bit hard to think about all characters so i've liked/been neutral about LXC for a while. I have to admit though that in many many fanfics he basically exists only to give shovel talks to WWX (which is beyond annoying) and very rarely makes friends with WWX and often when he does WWX is overly tearfully grateful and it's affected my view of the character somewhat. I've become less fond of LXC but I still sympathize with him for Meng Yao. It's what he warned to his little brother about WWX but instead it was actually happening to him.

On a different note- how strong a cultivator is Lan Xichen? I feel like he should be right up there among the best but his cultivation skills are mentioned. What is he good at? Is he super good at anything?

I sometimes think LXC is, in a way, a foil for LWJ. He's this gentle, placid guy, willing to cruise along with the world, serene as the surface of the lake until someone throws a stone. LWJ, on the other hand, feels powerful like a storm sometimes. Even his silence has an edge to it, he comes across as fierce in ways LXC just isn't.

His fierceness makes him proactive instead of reactive, that's especially true when he's an adult. He's always ready to shoot and he doesn't hesitate. That's why he goes where chaos exists. LWJ isn't the kind to sit idly by when people face problems, even if the people don't concern him.

With LXC, things are different. Yes, he earns his title during the war and is known for helping hundreds of cultivators. We get the picture that he's this incredibly kind, gentle, and honorable guy. And he is.

But honestly, there's a limit to how much a kind guy will care about other people not connected to him. He knows LWJ cares for WWX in some capacity but LXC himself isn't attached to WWX in anyway. In his view, this is the guy who teased his brother relentlessly as a teenager and then showed up rebeling against everything they had been taught.

WWX's no innocent peasant or helpless cultivator that needs defending. In his eyes, WWX is powerful, dangerous, and a proven soldier. He knows WWX is smart and cunning. LXC knows he's capable of being very ruthless.

All of the heroism and kindness that LWJ has seen first hand, LXC has seen none of it. I'm also uncertain about how much he understands LWJ's feelings for WWX. He was forced to go mediate between the two a few times during the war because they were fighting so much.

So why would he go out of his way to get the true facts regarding WWX and the Wens? Especially if JC, WWX's own sect leader is set against him? He has no reason to distrust JC, who has always seemed like a steady guy, trying to reign in WWX's chaos.

From his perspective, whatever happens to WWX and the Wens is just a part of the post-war politicking.

Now, if LWJ had asked him to check, LXC would've definitely gone to the BM settlement. But he didn't afaik. LXC simply went on handling his own sect business and life.

All of that makes perfect sense for his character and his station in life. He becomes a little more invested post-ressurection when LWJ and WWX request his aid. He gets involved because both of our heroes ask this time. And due to his connection with JGY. If he wasn't tied so closely to the situation, with JGY and LWJ at risk, he wouldn't have paid much attention to the situation.

Imo, he's just a kind guy who is inclined to help but also needs to have some sort of personal stake to truly involve himself. Everytime he's shown stepping forward (outside of war) in any meaningful way, it happens when someone close to him is at risk like JGY, NMJ, LWJ, or even NHS.

There's a big difference between how JC and LXC failed their brothers.

JC activily turned the entire Cultivation world against WWX. He refused to defend him or offer help when needed.

LXC only saw his brother's somewhat 'friend' was turning bad and his brother maybe felt a little put out about it. Can't even consider that a failure, tbh.

When he knew how seriously invested LWJ was, having seen his brother suffer for love, he became seriously invested in WWX's wellbeing too. He showed that by sheltering WWX even if it meant going against his sworn brother in spirit.

But that doesn't mean WWX owes LXC anything.

So to conclude, I think he's a kind but casual character. MXTX basically wanted him to be a humbo, so there's that.

As for his power, I believe he's a skilled cultivator, particularly good with musical cultivation. He's so good that JGY thought he was nothing in comparison. He's also a good swordman and very good at archery.

Is he has powerful as LWJ - I somehow don't believe he is simply because LWJ seems to go on many more nighthunts. I assume that hightens his cultivation somewhat. But LXC is very competent from what the text suggests.

#reader asks #my personal opinion #i could be wrong

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pumpkinpaix · 3 years

Note

*waves* Hi! New(ish) follower, I followed for your posts about translation which are beautiful (especially the one about the imagery of "Zewu-jun") and thought-provoking; I don't have a good segue so here are some Salty Asks I'd like to know your answers to concerning MDZS: 5, 9, 10, 12, 23

oh, that’s so sweet of you!! thank you I’m really happy you enjoyed them 💛

okay salt incoming let’s see--all opinions are my own, no one has to agree with me, etc! and in true cyan fashion, this ask meme response actually needs a readmore l m a o

5. Has fandom ever ruined a pairing for you?

fandom has not ruined any ships in mdzs for me, but it has made me way more critical of both wangxian and xicheng interpretations. not in the sense that like, I think they are bad! i love wangxian and xicheng, but I have very very specific feelings about them that I rarely see reflected in popular fandom interpretations. (because i am a picky bitch lol)

wangxian tends to get the “they did no wrong and their love is righteous” treatment which I find disingenuous and believe directly contradicts the point of mdzs. i think that wangxian is fundamentally a very selfish relationship, and that that is, in fact, a good thing. i love that about them. i care so much about the assertion that your desires do not have to be perfect and righteous to still matter and be worthwhile. i don’t understand the impulse to make wangxian into a pure ship that triumphs and “deserves” a happy ending because they were right all along. I always felt like the entire point of mdzs was that--you can be the most terrible person, you can do unspeakable harm, and still be loved and deserving of that love. i think wangxian is compelling and moving specifically for that reason, and I often have to back out of interpretations that don’t acknowledge it in the way that i want them to. a lot of interpretations tend to idealize wwx and lwj in ways that I disagree with, and I’ve seen a lot of vitriolic pushback over anything that’s seen as even vaguely critical of either of them, when the point isn’t that “wwx/lwj is a bad person because he is selfish” the point is that “wwx/lwj’s choices are selfishly motivated” -- that’s not meant to be a value judgment, at least for me.

(i understand that a lot of this has to do with CQL’s influence, in which wangxian IS narratively rewarded for their righteousness, but as I’ve discussed at length, I think that positioning undermines what makes mdzs so powerful to me in the first place. not that i don’t love CQL!! i do love CQL--they have made a beautiful thing within the constraints that they had. but I think the novel is much stronger thematically.)

as for xicheng: i think that their relationship could be extraordinarily interesting if done in specific ways--I do not think they are well-suited to each other at any point in the canon timeline, but that they could be something really good maybe 10 years post-canon. I used to really like the idea of xicheng romantically, but as time goes on, I’m leaning harder into friendship. I think they have a lot of uniquely shared life experiences, and that it would be really good for both of them to have a person that they knew understood those experiences intimately: the pressures of leading a sect before adulthood, the grief of losing your family in a massacre and being unable to save them, the betrayal of someone who was once so close to you--that’s a lot. and i think there are very few people in their generation who could truly understand that. (for this reason, I also think lxc and xxc would be a very interesting relationship to see many many years post-canon, if xxc were ever revived) but during canon? no, absolutely not. i don’t think lxc has the slightest interest in jc, and i don’t think jc is particularly moved by lxc either, beyond a distant “yeah i mean, he’s the first jade everyone loves him sure moving on” kind of way. they both have their own shit to deal with, and before lxc’s seclusion and also before the core reveal, i think jc is too angry and vicious for lxc and lxc is too soft and toothless for jc. for someone to really convince me on xicheng, jc has to move towards some kind of self-forgiveness and peace and lxc has to move towards self-assertion. then I think they can meet somewhere in the middle of all that.

and like, it’s not that i won’t read silly fluffy aus or like canonverse stuff with them in a ship, but i admit that because it’s grown so popular but not at all in the ways that i personally want, I’m frustrated with and have retreated from reading it. unless it’s done in the specific way i like, it has too much of a pair the spares vibe for me to get behind it anymore.

9. Most disliked character(s)? Why?

jin guangshan, obvious reasons, next

ok well, i guess to elaborate even slightly: jin guangshan, to me, is the embodiment of the systems within mdzs that cause tragedy. he and chang ci’an are similar in that respect? like, the callousness with which they treat people they consider beneath them. what is nothing to them is ruinous for another, but why should they care? but jgs really had every advantage handed to him and chose to use that advantage to hurt others in really insidious ways and i can’t forgive that. jin zixun is also on this list, but like, still ahead of jgs bc he’s younger. -_- i suppose in that respect, i also very much dislike chang ci’an, but that’s a bit harder to quantify, given that we know almost nothing about him.

10. Most disliked arc? Why?

huh. uhhhh. i think i actually really like all of them? in the novel anyways. if we’re talking CQL, yin iron plot ugh.

12. Is there an unpopular arc that you like that the fandom doesn’t? Why?

I think for similar reasons to 10, not really! I don’t see a lot of hate for any specific plot arc. Oh, maybe the incense burners? I completely unironically love those. people rag a lot on mxtx’s smut, but it’s very important to me for a number of like, personal mental health reasons lol.

23. Unpopular character you love?

xue yang! i think xue yang’s character raises a very interesting point about equivalent justice that kinda gets swept away in all the uhhhh murder. and it’s a point that has really big thematic repercussions, I think? but the way it’s worded makes it very easy to dismiss.

very briefly: xue yang is right when he says that 50 lives cannot pay back his finger, because there is nothing that can pay back that finger. no vengeance or sentence visited upon chang ci’an will ever be equal to the injustice that he visited upon xue yang. i think there’s a bit of naivety in the way xxc says “why didn’t you cut off his finger then? or his whole arm, if that wasn’t enough?” and the answer I think is very obvious--xy cutting off cca’s finger would not in any way be the same kind of trauma that xy losing his finger was, esp if chang ci’an knew who xue yang was. there would be an understanding in that: i am losing my finger because this man blames me for the loss of his finger. but to xue yang, a 7 year old? the pain he experienced was completely senseless and cruel and terrifying.

does that mean xue yang was justified? no jesus christ, but i do think it ties very neatly into the general themes of what it means to get vengeance, what it means to get justice, and how cycles of trauma eventually end. so i love him for that.

on a lesser note, but a similar one: i rather like su she, I think. there is something about like, jgy’s “all i had to do was remember his name and he was willing to die for me” that gets to me. there’s a huge tragedy in that somewhere.

wow i have no idea if any of that was coherent im very sleepy

salt asks

#cyan gets too deep in the weeds #ask meme #mdzs #rip i hate that the 5 tags thing doesn't work anymore rip to me i guess #the untamed #nice people saying nice things #ajax-daughter-of-telamon #asks and replies

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i-like-plan-m · 3 years

Note

If you're accepting prompts, how about one where people either can't lie to LWJ or he can tell when they're lying, and he inadvertently discovers a whole bunch of stuff WWX would rather he didn't (could be either WWX's low self worth, or his intense LWJ-based thirst!)

such a good prompt omg thank you [Posted to Ao3]

It was a curse, some said. A gift, according to others. The sect debated for years on the technicalities and argued their differing opinions over Lan Zhan’s head until Lan Qiren insisted the sect leave his nephew alone.

No one ever asked Lan Zhan what he thought.

He considered it neither a gift nor a curse. It was simply a part of him, the same as his golden core.

Except while a golden core was perfectly normal, Lan Zhan’s ability to detect any lie— spoken or unspoken— was less so. He heard falsehoods like music; words were notes, conversations were harmonies, and lies were the jarring wrong note that scraped harshly across his ears.

The hardest part was learning the reasons for a lie. Lan Zhan did not understand people the way his brother did, could only hear their lies and quietly disapprove. But Lan Xichen spent hours upon hours with him, testing the bounds of the skill and gently pointing out the different types of lies, and why the distinctions were important.

Sometimes, he’d said, people lie to protect themselves or others. Sometimes a lie is kinder than the truth. They were not all born of malicious intent, and he’d taught Lan Zhan how to distinguish between them. How to identify the dangerous lies, the harmful ones, and those that were best left unacknowledged out of kindness or respect.

Lan Xichen had been eternally patient, remarkably encouraging, and quietly concerned about the effect this curse would have on his little brother. Lan Zhan had seen it in his face, the nonverbal lie reading to him like a whisper every time Lan Xichen smiled to hide his worry.

His brother had never asked about the source of the curse or gift or whatever the sect considered it; Lan Zhan suspected he had his own theories, and Lan Xichen’s guesses would most certainly be better than the elders’.

But only Lan Zhan knew its origins for sure.

His mother had been lied to, once, and as a result had spent the rest of her days a prisoner in a small, lonely house. His clearest memory of his mother was her holding him close, tucking him into her lap and wrapping her arms around him in a loving, protective cocoon. It was the safest he had ever felt.

He’d been too young to recognize his mother’s sorrow for what it was at the time, the way she’d clearly known her death was approaching. But he remembered the quiet words she’d whispered to him, words of love and fear and protectiveness. The way her golden core had enveloped him, warm and steady, as she made sure her youngest son would not live in a house of lies and silence like her.

It was her greatest gift to him, and her last.

~*~

Lan Zhan knew the sound of a lie. So when a particularly irritating disciple arrived and immediately began causing trouble, Lan Zhan expected any number of lies from the boy. He was eager, even, for vindication for his own prejudice against such a disrespectful nuisance.

But Wei Ying had a way of talking that sounded like slurred notes to Lan Zhan’s highly trained ear. He was all chaos and deflection, and Lan Zhan experienced something uncomfortably like whiplash trying to keep up with the words in Wei Ying’s never-ending chatter.

It could not have been deliberate— no one outside of the Lan Sect’s elders and his own family knew of Lan Zhan’s particular skill— but nonetheless Wei Ying avoided giving straight answers, topics sliding sideways and off course with a joke, a question of his own, or some wildly inappropriate comment that made Lan Zhan too furious to focus.

He was infuriating.

He was beautiful.

Somehow that was worse.

Lan Zhan did not bother to look over as Wei Ying bickered with his sect brother, not in any mood to deal with him or his own feelings about the biggest troublemaker he’d ever met in his life.

Wei Ying’s laugh rang over the courtyard, bright and happy as he slung an arm over Jiang Wanyin’s shoulders, ignoring the sect heir’s incensed protests. “Don’t lie, shidi, I know you love me!”

The lie sounded like a gong in Lan Zhan’s head, startling him so badly that he stumbled to an awkward stop and snapped his head around to stare at Wei Ying, who was for once paying him no attention.

His ever-present smile was in place, nothing false or fixed about it. Wei Ying wore happiness and humor like armor, and Lan Zhan wondered if anyone had ever seen past it. He hadn’t… until now.

Lies were interesting things. Sometimes entire speeches were a lie (for instance, everything that came out of Jin Guangshan’s mouth). Sometimes gestures held the lie, such as Nie Huaisang’s amiable nod of agreement whenever his older brother ordered him to go train with his saber. And sometimes the lie was only a single word.

I know you love me. The low, booming signal of Wei Ying’s lie was significant for two reasons: the timing, and the strength of the sound. The greater the lie, the louder the noise, and this one had left a painful echo in Lan Zhan’s ears from the force of it. And the timing… the lie had been marked on a single word: love.

I know you love me. But Wei Ying did not believe this, not even a little.

Lan Zhan… did not know what to do with this revelation.

By the end of class that day, during which Wei Ying had been bellowed at by Lan Qiren and handed off to Lan Zhan for yet another punishment, he still had not figured out what to do about it. He would have gone to his brother for advice, because Xichen always helped him find the right thing to do, but lately his brother had a terrible light of laughter in his eyes every time Lan Zhan mentioned Wei Ying, and he was not about to willingly subject himself to that indignity.

So he was left to his own devices. Lan Zhan stared down at his scroll, not reading a single word of it because of to Wei Ying’s indecent sprawl across a nearby desk. He was humming innocently, like Lan Zhan couldn’t see him urging a tiny paper man on a march towards Lan Zhan’s pot of ink.

“Focus on your work,” Lan Zhan said sternly, capturing the figure just before it dipped its little arms in the bowl and went on a rampage.

“Ugh, Lan Zhan,” Wei Ying whined, flopping over the desk. “This is so boring, how can you stand it? Not even Madam Yu would make me do all this!”

Lan Zhan studied the paper man in the cage of his fingers. This was a chance to learn more, he thought, about Wei Wuxian’s life in Yunmeng. Maybe even about why he did not believe his own brother loved him.

Why do you care? This does not concern you. Lan Zhan mutinously banished the thought and set the paper man free to explore the stack of books on his desk.

Hesitantly, he asked, “Do you like Lotus Pier?”

“Lan Zhan!” Wei Ying laughed. “What kind of question is that?”

Lan Zhan felt the familiar surge of frustration at the deflection; he could never get a straight answer out of Wei Ying, and it was a source of much aggravation.

“You mention punishments at Lotus Pier frequently,” he said instead of pinning Wei Ying to the floor until he got a truthful answer. The image sent a flash of heat through him, and he held himself very, very still until he had control over himself again.

“Eh.” Wei Ying waved a dismissive hand. “I get in trouble everywhere, Lan Zhan, whether I mean to or not.”

Truth.

“Are you punished in similar ways?” Lan Zhan asked, looking pointedly at Wei Ying’s abandoned paper of half-copied rules.

“No one gives punishments like the Lans. Don’t worry, your sect’s reputation is still the most feared of all!”

Not true, because anyone with half a brain knew to be wary of Wen Ruohan. This lie was like a slipped finger on the string of a qin, a short, wavering note that was discordant and vaguely unsettling. An untruth, technically, but said as a joke, as a sort-of truth because both of them knew the statement wasn’t genuine and that they other knew it as well.

Lan Zhan had a headache.

He tried a different track. “You were adopted by Sect Leader Jiang?”

Wei Ying sat up, propping his elbows on his desk and studying him for a moment before grinning. “So many questions, Lan Zhan! If I didn’t know better, I’d think you want to be friends.”

It was said teasingly, and the lie was held in the latter part of the sentence— Wei Ying did not believe Lan Zhan wanted to be friends. That, combined with the frustration of yet another question avoided, made Lan Zhan say, “It seems you do not know better.”

Embarrassingly, his heart was pounding at the admission. Lan Zhan had never had a friend before, other than his brother, and he certainly did not know how to make them. But he knew that he wanted to spend time with Wei Ying more and more often, even though part of him rebelled at the thought.

It was oddly silent in the library. Lan Zhan knew his ears were flushed red with embarrassment and uncertainty, and he waited with bated breath for Wei Ying to tease him again, to deflect with another laugh or joke that kindly disguised the fact that he did not want to be Lan Zhan’s friend, that Lan Zhan was too stiff and weird and boring to be anyone’s friend.

A little nauseated, Lan Zhan lifted his eyes from his paper and gathered his courage to look at the other boy.

Wei Ying was gaping at him like a fish.

“Friends?” He finally managed. Lan Zhan dropped his eyes back to the desk and said nothing, couldn’t speak past the lump in his throat. “You don’t want to be my friend!”

His gaze flickered back towards Wei Ying. The statement was untrue, obviously, but it was a lie that Wei Ying believed to be true, so it sounded like a half-missed note on a flute. Easily corrected, quickly covered, but there nonetheless.

“Says who?” Lan Zhan asked, wondering… hoping…

Wei Ying blinked at him for a moment, visibly stumped. Ridiculously, it made Lan Zhan feel as though he’d won something. Triumph over being the one to shock Wei Ying into uncharacteristic silence for once.

As expected, it didn’t last long.

Traitorous fondness glowed in his chest as Wei Ying planted his hands on the desk and raised himself onto his knees with an indignant expression. His hair fell in disarray around his face, a half-tied red ribbon spilling over his shoulder and against rumpled robes.

“You did!” Wei Ying said, outraged. “I said we should be friends on the first night!”

He’d said a lot of things that first night, Lan Zhan thought with reluctant amusement. Lan Zhan had forgotten most of it thanks to the veil of rage that had overtaken him as he chased a beautiful boy under the moonlight.

“Hm,” Lan Zhan said, dismissive, mostly just to watch Wei Ying’s expression contort into disbelief. “Did you ask?”

Wei Ying spluttered. “Of course I asked!” He said too loudly, and then cocked his head like he’d heard the ring of the lie, too. “Oh. Huh, I guess I didn’t ask, now that I think about it.”

He looked at Lan Zhan with a gleam in his eye. Lan Zhan had only a second to think, uh oh, and then Wei Ying had vaulted over his desk to land on his knees across from him.

“Lan Zhan,” he whispered, leaning in like they were sharing secrets. Lan Zhan’s hear thundered in his ears as Wei Ying grinned conspiratorially at him and leaned in close enough that Lan Zhan could smell the floral scent of his hair oil, the tinge of chili oil that he’d smuggled into the Cloud Recesses and then at some point spilled on his sleeve. “I want to be your friend. Do you want to be friends?”

Lan Zhan savored the silence around his words— I want to be your friend, he’d said, with no single hint of a lie— and tried not to let the mischievous glint in Wei Ying’s eye distract him.

It was too late, though. The seed of mischief had taken root in Lan Zhan, which was why he said with a perfectly straight face, “Hm. I will have to think about it.”

“Lan Zhan!” Wei Ying squawked with indignation, and then must have caught the tiny curl of Lan Zhan’s mouth because he exploded into laughter a second later. “Were you teasing me just now? Lan Zhan, I can’t believe this.”

Quietly pleased with himself, Lan Zhan watched as Wei Ying laughed until he ran out of air, falling onto his back with his usual exuberant expressiveness. The laughter was a joyous sound, bright and honest, and hearing it in one of his favorite places made Lan Zhan’s chest feel warm and tight.

His mother would have liked him, Lan Zhan thought wistfully. For his humor, his irrepressible love of life, his fearlessness. His heart felt too big for his chest as he listened to Wei Ying laugh, unrestrained emotion where only disciplined constraint had ever been permitted.

He would investigate Wei Ying’s beliefs about his own worth later, he decided. They were friends now, so this was allowed.

For now, though, he let the clear, ringing music of Wei Ying’s laughter fill the room. Basked in the warmth he hadn’t felt since his mother had been alive, and softened enough to smile back at Wei Ying.

#y'all have sent me some fantastic prompts #this one was fun #the untamed #wangxian #lan zhan #lan wangji #wei ying #wei wuxian #mdzs #asks #anon #prompts #my writing #my fics

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xiyao-feels · 3 years

Text

So, this started off as a shipping bingo for MDZS nie//lan; I've added the bingo meme above so that you know what you're getting into. What it evolved into, however, is several thousand words of close reading of the NMJ+LXC relationship, getting some into the 3//zun dynamics and comparing it with LXC and JGY's relationship to help demonstrate my point. If that sounds interesting to you, read away! Fair warning: as you might gather from the bingo above I am not very gentle, not only on the idea of a romantic relationship but also on their friendship.

Originally, I imagined I'd be saying something like, while of course they were very good friends and LXC grieves for NMJ, there's no evidence of romantic interest. But I wanted to look over the scenes first, to get a handle on them properly and to pick out some quotes; and what I found, when I looked at it closely, startled me—I couldn't believe how little there actually was.

My methodology for this review, by the way: I searched the entire text for every variation on their name I could think of, and then read over the chapter for chapters they were both mentioned in. I also reviewed chapters where only one of them is mentioned (that's how I caught the reference in ch 16, where NMJ is only referred to as NHS' brother). I might have missed something, or I might have read it and not registered it, etc etc. I definitely don't have JGY's memory XP But I've done my best to be thorough.

Also, a heads up: while I've done a little bit of addressing NMJ's emotions, this is mostly focused on what LXC feels, because otherwise this would be even more ridiculously long and because that's where my interest lies.

I'll state my conclusions up front, in case you just want to know what I think and not have to wade through [mumble] thousand words to get there. But it's far enough off from even the standard non-shippy take on their relationship that I really did think it was worth walking through the evidence.

It seems to me that while NMJ and LXC were to some extent close before the war, they grew apart during the war and very much so afterwards. There are a few moments that suggest NMJ might feel unusually tender towards LXC, there is nothing similar on LXC's part, and frankly their post-Sunshot interactions that we see suggest that—while LXC certainly cares about him—he does not at all feel close to him.

Moreover, his personal grief for NMJ's death, and whatever personal betrayal he may feel about JGY killing his, LXC's, friend, are not the drivers of his emotional difficulties with respect to JGY.

Okay, now the evidence. This has been divided up into two parts, NMJ alive and NMJ dead.

Pt I: NMJ alive

LXC and NMJ were friends before Sunshot; while we don't have a lot of evidence to guess how close they were, we can certainly see signs of long familiarity with each other in their later interactions, and it's worth noting that we don't see either of them having other friends beyond, in LXC's case, JGY.*

*NMJ got along with his subordinate MY very well, but except for one incident it was purely in the context of a superior/subordinate relationship, and he does not seem to have been interested in MY as a person, so I'm not classing them as friends.

Nevertheless, during Sunshot, we can see LXC begin to grow apart from him, and in their post-Sunshot interactions they start not very close and end up quite distant. By the time if NMJ's death, it's clear that while LXC cares about him, he is not emotionally close to him at all.

A brief discussion of NMJ's feelings, before I spend most of the rest of the post focusing on LXC's. As I mentioned above, LXC seems to be NMJ's only friend, and he does react to him in ways he doesn't really seem to anyone else. In the teacups scene, for example, we're told that "while Nie MingJue had never been one for humor," nevertheless "in front of Lan XiChen, his expression eased." Later, towards the end of the stairs incident, LXC is able to dissuade him from immediately pursuing JGY's death, which I believe is as much as we see anyone ever do with NMJ's anger. Finally, in ch 46, when LXC and LWJ are playing music to deal with NMJ's headless corpse, WWX thinks that NMJ might particularly be responding to LXC playing Liebing: "Wei WuXian didn’t know if it was only his imagination, but as soon as the soft, serene tone of the xiao appeared, the corpse’s movement paused. For a moment, he seemed to have stood still and listened, then turned around, as though he wanted to see who was the one playing the music."

If you wanted to say that NMJ has romantic or quasi-romantic feelings about LXC, then I don't think that would be an unreasonable extrapolation from the text, although I also don't think it's a necessary one; friendship and minor romantic feelings are I think pretty much equally fair readings.

Even so, LXC is not his priority; rather, he prioritizes NHS and (probably not unrelatedly) JGY's moral rectitude. In Ch 48, the friendly 3zun conversation only happens because NMJ was seeking LXC out to bring him NHS' saber, which he'd left behind, and when he qi deviates it's NHS and not LXC who manages to bring him some calm just before he dies, and whose features he can recognize (ch 50). At the Phoenix Mountain Hunt (ch 69-70), we see no sign that either he or LXC sought each other out, and on those occasions we do see NMJ initiate discussion with LXC it's usually about JGY's moral rectitude (ch 73, his sarcastic remark about JGY's hard work after the conference about WWX; ch 49, his interjection during the guqin scene; ch 49, the beginning of the stairs incident).

And what about what LXC feels? Let's take a close look at the progression of their relationship.

In chapter 16, when NHS is studying at Cloud Recesses, we see LXC run into him and convey NMJ's query into his studies, having apparently recently returned from Qinghe. While he doesn't say what he was doing there, it seems reasonable to infer that he was either visiting NMJ or at least visited him while he was there. (ETA: NHS also hopes that LXC will put in some good words for him to NMJ, which also suggests that he expects they'll be in contact.) This establishes a baseline of closeness from before the war, however much they drift apart during and after. However, we never see any of their interactions before the war, or anything else about their relationship; this is all we get.

The high point of the NMJ and LXC interactions that we see on page happen during Sunshot, where we see them have three conversations (all in ch 48). High point, however, is a relative phrase. In order, there's the teacups scene; there's their conversation (including MY) after NMJ agrees to release MY from his service, with a recommendation letter no less; and there's their conversation where NMJ recounts what happened with MY in Langya.

Let's start with the teacups scene. NMJ and LXC do talk, but it's part of a group conversation with other cultivators—at least three and as many as six of whom we see interject,* one of whom is another sect leader—and it seems mostly about practical or immediate matters. The exchange on the page isn't long and "Soon afterward, Lan XiChen and the rest stood up" and are led to their resting areas by MY. Moreover, interestingly, it's NMJ who asks all the questions; LXC answers him, but doesn't ask him questions in turn, or comment on his situation.

*there are two separate occasions where there cultivators per chime in

(Note also that the focus of the conversation suggests that NMJ and LXC aren't communicating extensively through letters or anything, as does LXC not knowing MY is NMJ's deputy. I don't think this is hugely significant, given that there's a war on and presumably they don't want information leaking everywhere and LXC doesn't seem to have a fixed address, but it does seem worth noting—as does the implication, perhaps more significant, that LXC only stops at Hejian when he's escorting other cultivators: "Everytime Lan XiChen passed Hejian as he was escorting other cultivators, he would rest shortly[.]")

NMJ and LXC's conversation in the teacups scene stands in really stark contrast to the conversation between LXC and MY that NMJ is about to overhear. That conversation is very much private; it's in LXC's private resting area, and MY is sitting in the presence of Zewu-Jun. The conversation is sort of about the war, but really only as it relates to MY's dream of "earn[ing] a proper place in the LanlingJin Sect" and "receiv[ing] the approval of [his] father." The very first thing we hear LXC say is a comment on MY's situation ("What a coincidence. You joined MingJue-xiong’s force and became his deputy")! He is of course going to go on to raise the possibility of MY going to Langya (to serve his father), and independently volunteer to talk to NMJ if NMJ isn't willing to let MY go. And even after NMJ joins them, some things are kept private between LXC and MY; when he asks them how they know each other, LXC refuses to answer, and then when he asks MY to answer as LXC will not, MY also refuses him, since LXC doesn't want it spoken.

The two conversations are simply very different, in a way that suggests a strong contrast between LXC's feelings for and interest in NMJ and LXC's feelings for and interest in MY. It's also worth noting, as I mentioned above, that it seems that NMJ sought LXC out because he was bringing LXC NHS' sabre, so LXC can bring it on to NHS.

Now, let's look at the conversation the three of them have after NMJ volunteers to give MY a letter of recommendation and send him to serve his father in Langya. This conversation is, I think, the high point of the interactions they have that we actually see. LXC expresses a positive evaluation of NMJ: "Look, I told you that MingJue-xiong would respect your decision." He smiles at NHS' sabre, and responds directly to NMJ. And then of course there's this famous paragraph:

The three chatted back and forth, at times serious, yet at times light. The conversation was much more relaxed than when they had been in the living room. Listening to their chatter, Wei WuXian often wanted to get a word in as well, yet he was unable to do so.

That said...well. Again, there's nothing about anything here that suggests romance, and if you look at the reasons I give for it being the high point, that's not actually very high. As to the paragraph—again, I do think they're friends! But I think it's also noteworthy that the easiest conversation we see/hear about them having is one that is early in the war,* and where MY is also present, and one where NMJ has just done something good for MY.

*MY is noted as having joined the Nie forces "right after" Sunshot begins, and to have been promoted to NMJ's deputy after not many interactions; LXC also seems surprised at least by MY being NMJ's deputy, which suggests that he hasn't stopped there before while this was the case, and he comes by in the paragraph immediately after MY is promoted. Finally, after MY vanishes after his confrontation with NMJ in Langya, we're told that "during the next few years" no traces could be found of him. All taken together, this suggests to me that MY was NMJ's deputy for 1-2 months early in the war, and the conversation of course takes place at the very end of that period

(As ever, I recommend confusion-and-more's close reading of the second scene, here.)

The next interaction that's mentioned in the text is after MY tricks and immobilizes NMJ and flees, when NMJ describes what happened with him to LXC. I think it's worth noting exactly how the exchange is introduced:

Even when Lan XiChen had the time to assist Langya, a few days later, his anger hadn’t died down one bit. As soon as he came, Lan XiChen laughed, “MingJue-xiong, what a temper you seem to be in. Where is Meng Yao? Why does he not come and douse your flames?”

"As soon as he came," note! It seems to be literally the first thing LXC says. And while it is a comment on NMJ's state, its primary function seems to be as a lead-in to asking about the state/whereabouts of MY. Their exchange as the text shows us is /entirely/ about MY, and he's clearly the focus of LXC's interest. We also have this from LXC, which I think is interesting as it shows the contrast between his morality and NMJ's:

"Judging from his words, the person whom he killed had definitely done wrong. However, he should not have taken his life either. We are in harsh times, so it is quite difficult to determine who was at fault."

Their next interaction is in chapter 49, LXC defending MY from NMJ post Sun Palace—and I don't just mean verbally, he's defending against Baxia with an unsheathed Shuoyue through this whole conversation. At this point, he still has some faith in NMJ's ability to act rationally towards MY, as he asks MY if MY hadn't told NMJ about his being the spy, and NMJ displays familiarity with LXC, knowing that he rarely interrupted people. I'll note that unlike in CQL, LXC does not seem particularly angry at this point—MDZS LXC is almost never angry, including at multiple points where CQL LXC /is/—but overall it's hardly an example of particular closeness, and we see that LXC's morality continues to differ from NMJ's: "MingJue-xiong," he says of MY, "he was undercover in Qishan, and sometimes there would be some things that… could not have been helped."

Later in the chapter, just before the Flower Banquet, it's mentioned (possibly as inference from WWX) that LXC brought up the sworn brotherhood to NMJ, "having always hoped that the two [NMJ and JGY] would reconcile." Obviously we can infer things about their closeness from the fact that LXC does in fact swear brotherhood with NMJ, but we have no direct textual statement as to why he wanted to swear /himself/ to NMJ, be that personal or political or both.

Next comes the Flower Banquet. NMJ seeks JGY out, first, for his usual concerns with JGY's moral rectitude. Shortly after, LWJ and LXC come over; shortly after that, JC and WWX come over, though they soon move on. There are two things I want to note here. First, it's the only time we see LXC seek NMJ out (and one of only two times we see one of them seek the other out—the other will be in ch 73, after the conference about WWX, when NMJ comes over to him and JGY talking). Second, this is the only time we see LXC respond to NMJ verbally post-Sunshot in a way that isn't about defending someone, either JGY (the usual case) or WQ (at the conference in ch 73)—although it is to some degree a defense of WWX, and it's not quite directly in reply to NMJ, as NMJ and LWJ have a brief exchange on the subject first. These positive signs will not occur again, and I think it's significant that this is the earliest post-Sunshot scene we see.

The next scene for this analysis (chronologically speaking; it's in an entirely different chapter) is the Phoenix Mountain Hunt. Although we see NMJ and LXC arrive to the hunt in ch 69, NMJ arrives after the Twin Jades have started slowly riding into the distance and we don't actually see them interact at all; nor do we see them together in ch 70, the rest of the hunt. Moreover, there doesn't really seem to be any suggestion that they /did/ interact. When JGY says he's not sure if he'll be able to expand the hunting ground in two hours, LXC asks him why, instead of saying something like "oh right da-ge was doing all that hunting too." Moreover, when JGY answers him ("not only did Young Master Wei keep a third of the prey to himself, our eldest brother has eliminated over half of the fays and the monsters as well"), LXC's response doesn't indicate that he saw NMJ earlier, or knew what he was doing, though it does suggest a general familiarity with Nie Mingjue's character: 'Hearing this, Lan XiChen laughed, “That is how Brother is like, after all.”'

Now, this hardly rules out the idea that they had any interaction, but I think it at least suggests they didn't have any significant interaction, or any interaction after the hunt began. This is in contrast (again!) to his relationship with JGY—he was with him earlier for who knows how long, as they arrive on the scene together, and after this is going to go help expand the hunting grounds. They do have LWJ with them for this last, but he's helping them at LXC's request, and the framing of that request is very—well: "WangJi, should we leave, or would you like to help as well?" So LWJ can come help them, but if he doesn't want to, LXC is simply going to go off with JGY again.

If the Flower Banquet was the high point of their actual interactions on the page, post-Sunshot, then this is I think the most purely emotionally positive we see LXC feel about NMJ post-Sunshot. Significantly, it's based on an apparently older familiarity, and it's when they don't seem to have interacted recently and NMJ isn't even on the page.

The next scene they're in together, again chronologically, is in chapter 73. They're seated together in the first row, but that's explicitly because of their status, and they're grouped with LWJ and JC: "In the front row sat sect leaders and famed cultivators like Nie MingJue, Jiang Cheng, Lan XiChen, and Lan WangJi." During the conference, they have a brief conflict about WQ's culpability, which LXC leaves off explicitly because he's familiar with NMJ's hatred for the Wen. After the conference, we're told "the Venerated Trio gathered," but what this looks like in practice is LXC and JGY talking together and then NMJ coming over. LXC observed that JGY has worked hard, JGY is amused by the destruction JC wrought on his table, and then NMJ interrupts with a negative comment about JGY*: "All clever talk—hard work indeed." LXC smiles but doesn't reply. JGY tries to change the subject by asking LXC where LWJ is, and LXC gestures to the front, where LWJ and Mianmian are finishing up their conversation. NMJ compliments Mianmian, and JGY agrees. That's the end of the scene. I noted for the Flower Banquet that that scene unusually involves LXC replying verbally to NMJ in a way that isn't /just/ about defending someone; here, LXC does not speak a single word after NMJ joins them.

*In the interests of not being unfair I will note that NMJ did observe JGY lie; this doesn't really matter to the NMJ-LXC stuff except that it's a lie that LXC would also have noticed, as it involved contradicting LWJ.

NMJ and LXC are once again in the same scene in ch 78, for the swearing ceremony, and even speak one after the other. However, they don't seem to interact in any way, and their speech seems to be an important sect leader thing; we're told of their responses to JGS' toast, and then JC is explicitly contrasted in not speaking:

Nie MingJue, “May their souls live on.”

Lan XiChen, “Rest in peace.”

Jiang Cheng, however, still had on a darkened expression. He didn’t say anything even after he poured the wine.

Now we're back in the Empathy chapters, after a not insignificant gap: the next scene is the guqin scene, in chapter 49. Although LXC is playing guqin in the Unclean Realm, and is going to offer to teach JGY the Song of Clarity which he can use on NMJ, LXC and NMJ barely interact at all—they only have one very brief exchange, where NMJ objects to LXC teaching JGY the SoC (because it's leaking Lan techniques), LXC defends his decision, and NMJ realizes he's not going to change his mind so he doesn't say anything. Again, in contrast, LXC is very focused on JGY, asking him questions about his background, complimenting his playing, and independently offering to help him improve his guqin and even teach him an "exclusive teaching" of the Lan! The contrast is very noticeable.

A little after this, it's revealed that LXC left a guqin at the UR, apparently for JGY to use to play the SoC to NMJ. This is ostensibly because he is busy with the rebuilding of CR, although WWX speculates that this is just an excuse and that he "simply wanted to give Nie MingJue and Jin GuangYao a chance to ease their tension."

In chapter 30, it's revealed that at a Discussion Conference in the past, NMJ (who we are told otherwise would not have shown up, note, although it would have been an opportunity to see LXC) confronts the Jin about their refusal to sentence XY to death. He draws his sabre with the intent of killing XY, and gives JGY "a harsh scolding," causing JGY to "hid[e] behind Lan XiChen, not daring to say anything else." It seems likely that LXC defends JGY and/or helps to calm NMJ down, although nevertheless the Jin Sect has to (temporarily) give in on the matter of XY's death sentence; nothing about any further interaction they may have is noted.

Their next interaction is at the stairs incident, back in chapter 49. NMJ charges in on LXC and JGY, who are discussing the watchtower plans together, and tells LXC to stay there and JGY to come out with him. LXC's "face disclose[s] his worry," but JGY stops him and follows NMJ out. Some time later, LXC shows up at the conflict, coming to see what's happening, "concerned after having waited for long." He manages to calm NMJ down and prevent him from further trying to kill JGY, by talking about the work JGY has put in with the Song of Clarity, pointing out that he really is in a terrible situation, and urging NMJ to give him more time. Nothing he says particularly suggests that he feels close to NMJ; if anything, he seems kind of in denial about just how much NMJ is set against JGY.

Finally, there is their last interaction, just before NMJ's death. LXC is defending—well, not so much NMJ as the idea that NMJ hasn't rejected JGY completely, to JGY. His arguments are as follows: NMJ chose to become sworn brothers with JGY, which means he approves of JGY; when NMJ included in the oath stuff about "face a thousand accusing fingers, be torn from limb to limb," and so forth, he /also/ included "if one were to think otherwise," and since JGY doesn't think otherwise, he doesn't need to worry about it too much; that NMJ has always cherished JGY's talent and hoped he would choose the right path; and finally, that he's really really troubled by the saber spirit, that "[h]is anger was simply too great for him to have thought before speaking," and that JGY must not provoke him again (presumably by talking back, as he did at the stairs). As shining defenses of character go, this... isn't one. Again, he seems like he's kind of in denial about how much NMJ is set against JGY—notably, he didn't see all of the stairs incident, certainly not the part before JGY talked back—but it also doesn't exactly contain a strong positive assessment of NMJ. Forget his defense of JGY to Wangxian: this doesn't even compare to his confidence in NMJ in the conversation NMJ overhears and then joins at the Hejian front.

I realize all this is a lot, so to sum up their post-Sunshot interactions: we only see LXC seek out NMJ once, early post-Sunshot, and that's at a party. The fondest LXC seems of NMJ is one line during the Phoenix Mountain Hunt, when NMJ isn't even on-page. We do not see them spend any time privately together when JGY is not also there, and every time they interact publically JGY is also present at the party or gathering. When we do see them interact, the only time LXC responds verbally directly to NMJ is in defense of someone; if we include his indirect defense of WWX at the Flower Banquet, then that becomes 'the only time we see LXC respond verbally to NMJ at all.'

This is not of course to say that they don't have interactions we don't see. Given the time gaps, they must! But there's nothing about the interactions we *do* see to suggest that the ones we don't are in any way actually emotionally close, certainly not on LXC's part. Again, a contrast with his interactions with JGY is instructive; as with NMJ, we certainly don't see all of their interactions, but what we do see signals their closeness, mutual respect, and tendency to spend time together.

PT II: NMJ dead

Okay, you say, but wait! What about the depth of his renewed grief after he finds NMJ's body!! What about his deep personal betrayal about JGY killing his close friend!!!

Yes, I say, wild-eyed, having tried to find anything in the text for just that. what /about/ all that.

My problem is, how do I prove a negative? In the chapters with NMJ alive, LXC's presence and his interactions with NMJ are short enough that I could reasonably if lengthily discuss and summarize; that's just not going to work here (there are twelve and a half temple chapters!), not least because some of it is a matter of context or interpretation. So I'm doing two things. First, where we do see him actively upset, I'm going to show you what he seems upset about, and second, I'm going to point out places where we might expect him to react if he's feeling a deep personal grief about NMJ specifically, and instead he does not, or reacts differently.

Let's start with chapter 46, where LXC sees NMJ's moving corpse for the first time. I've seen the idea around that LXC recognized NMJ by his abs, but this doesn't really seem to be the case; it's either the shape of his (headless) body or his saber-fighting movements. Significantly, LWJ also recognizes it at the exact same time: "As they saw the headless shadow, both [LXC and LWJ] paused shortly." LXC's reaction to this recognition is extreme surprise, "almost to the point of shocked," and he takes a bit to resume playing Liebing, joining LWJ on the guqin (to deal with the headless corpse that's going around). 'Shock' is hardly incompatible with immense personal grief, but I will note that in this section he is also not described as anything other than shocked, although it is his first time seeing NMJ's body in ten years.

In a few paragraphs they deal with the corpse, attacking its energy enough that it falls back into pieces. As WWX seals the pieces back into his qiankun pouch, LXC asks him to wait: he wants to look at the corpse first, and he's described as having an "ashen" complexion. In context, though, both of these things seem to me to be about the likely identity of NMJ's killer, rather than NMJ himself; when LXC says he want to look at the corpse, WWX asks him if he recognizes the corpse, but it's not LXC who replies: "Before Lan XiChen could reply, Lan WangJi already nodded slowly." Moreover, as WWX points out, LWJ has already given LXC all the evidence that points at JGY as the killer—and also, after they do start talking about the identity of the killer, LXC shows no further interest in the corpse. This, from WWX, seems to me to sum up LXC's emotional conflict in this conversation: "Sect Leader Lan, you know who is the most suspicious person. You’re just refusing to admit it." It's not about NMJ being the corpse per se; it's what NMJ being the corpse suggests JGY did. ETA: I look at this scene in more detail here.

(I'll also note that the very first time we see LXC have anything to do with NMJ's corpse, it's in chapter 11, in the context of LWJ asking if LXC is visiting JGY "again" and a paragraph on JGY from WWX which includes the revelation that he and LXC are sworn brothers on the one hand, and LXC talking about LWJ being in good spirits and bringing guests home on the other. Meanwhile, NMJ's arm: 'Lan XiChen spoke, “Uncle has taken and examined what you brought back from Mo Village.”'

Now obviously we can't infer LXC's feelings about NMJ from this directly, given that he doesn't know it's NMJ's arm at the time, but it's certainly textually suggestive, and it very much fits in with a pattern of LXC prioritizing JGY and LWJ.)

That's most of the end of chapter 46; the next chapter has LXC, LWJ, and WWX going to the discussion conference at Carp Tower. Again, it's kind of hard to prove a negative, and LXC's reactions aren't really described at great length (though he does of course greet JGY with a smile); the only thing that seems unusual is that he seems "absent-minded."

Chapters 48 and 49, and part of 50, are the Empathy chapters. After WWX escapes from the flashback and returns to LWJ, he and LWJ start causing a ruckus trying to get into JGY's bedchamber (to get to his secret room). An audience is attracted, including LXC. Taking a cue from LWJ, he pressures his way into the treasure room; he seems relieved when NMJ's head isn't behind the curtain WWX lifts. He has—well, he certainly has a few emotional reactions, but at no point does he seem driven by grief over NMJ instead of uncertainty about JGY. At one point he "nod[s] heavily" to confirm to NHS that he's talking about NMJ. Or consider this exchange:

Jin GuangYao’s eyes still held tears, but appeared as if they were red with anger. He clenched his hands into fists and shouted with both grief and resentment, “Dismembered… Dismembered! Who in this world could’ve done such an insane act?!”

Lan XiChen shook his head, “I do not know. When we were searching for the head, the clues disappeared.”

Now obviously JGY is acting—but he's acting the role of someone who /is/ personally mourning NMJ, and he's showing more anger than LXC ever does about it. Now—to be fair, MDZS LXC gets angry even less than CQL LXC, who is hardly an angry person. But there are a few times we do see him angry—certain moments confronting JGY in the temple, in the temple courtyard when he's angry at WWX for how he's treated LWJ—and what happens to NMJ's body, never mind the fact of the death itself, doesn't seem to make the list.

In chapter 63, WWX wakes up in CR, having been recovering for four days. In this chapter and the next two, LXC becomes increasingly distressed as they discover the Song of Turmoil and the evidence seems to weigh against Jin Guangyao, enough that it's not really feasible to review every instance of it. Nevertheless, there are a couple of parts I think it's worth looking at directly.

In chapter 64, we get something extremely valuable: LXC's statement of his own emotional quandary.

Lan XiChen supported his head on his hand. His voice was low, as though he was trying to hold something back, “WangJi, the version of Jin GuangYao that I know is entirely different compared to the version that you know and the version that the world knows! Throughout all these years, in my eyes, he has always been… enduring his suffer, caring for all people, treating everyone with respect. I have always believed, without a doubt, that the criticism he received from others all came from misunderstandings, that what I knew how he truly is. Now, you want me to believe, at once, that everything about this person is fake, that he planned to kill one of his sworn brothers, that I was also a part of his plan and even helped him… Could you please allow me some more discretion before I make my own judgement?”

So, what is he distressed by here? It's quite clearly the idea that he /doesn't/ know JGY, that the JGY he knows is fake, a falsehood, and relatedly that their relationship is not as he understands it ("that I was also a part of his plan and even helped him"). JGY killing NMJ is obviously what inspires this crisis, but it's not at all what's centered in his speech here, and even the half-sentence mention that it gets doesn't frame it at all in terms of NMJ's relationship to LXC. "He planned to kill one of his sworn brothers," he says, not "our sworn brother" or "my sworn brother" or even "my friend."

(The paragraph immediately following reads to me more like WWX's conclusions than narrative certainty, but either way, it's not about his personal relationship with NMJ: "Lan XiChen had taught Jin GuangYao the Song of Clarity, keeping in mind the grudge between Jin GuangYao and Nie MingJue, hoping that they could be how they used to be. He requested Jin GuangYao to help calm Nie MingJue in place of him. Who would’ve known that his kindness made possible Jin GuangYao’s cruelty? How should he face himself now?")

Later in the chapter, there's the famous section where he tells WWX about his and LWJ's parents' story. I do think part of this is about telling WWX something about LWJ (although not that LWJ has feelings for him, which MDZS LXC thinks he already knows), but it's also pretty transparently about his own uncertainty re: JGY.

He paused before speaking again, “Young Master Wei, can you understand why he did such a thing?”

Wei WuXian answered after a moment of silence, “He could neither forgive the one who killed his teacher nor watch the death of the woman who he loved. He could only marry her to protect her life and force himself not to see her.”

Lan XiChen, “Do you think that this was right?”

Wei WuXian, “I don’t know.”

Lan XiChen looked somewhat lost, “Then, what do you think would be right?”

Wei WuXian, “I don’t know.”

A while later, [Lan Xichen speaks again, in a whisper]

He spoke, “Madam Lan must’ve been a very gentle woman.”

Lan XiChen, “In my memories, Mother had indeed been so. I do not know why she did such a thing back then. And, in truth, I…”

He took in a deep breath before confessing, “Do not want to know either.”

It's not what you might call subtle.

But it's also worth noting, I think, exactly what LXC focuses on telling the story. It was one of his father's teachers that his mother killed—and while that is absolutely a very important position, and obviously would have mattered and indeed did matter to QHJ a great deal—that's literally all the information we get about him, that he was QHJ's teacher. He lingers on why QHJ did what he did, and whether it was the right thing; he talks about the crime his mother committed, and his response to that. He does not focus at all on the teacher, the clear NMJ-analogue in this scenario. He's not QHJ's beloved teacher, or his favourite teacher, or anything like that—he's not even just "his teacher," he's "one of his teachers." And maybe that's all the information he has about him, but he doesn't linger on that question either! Again, there's nothing here to suggest that his conflict is about his personal connection with NMJ.

ETA: I actually missed something here. Thanks to some critique in the notes (and which I discuss more extensively in the post linked at the bottom of the page), I looked at the Chinese here, and the word LXC uses for teacher is 恩师, which Pleco gives me as “mentor; one’s kind and respected master (or teacher).” So on the one hand, that's not nothing. On the other hand, the point remains that it's only one word, LXC isn't adding lots of adjectives on to describe the teacher, and as I mentioned in the previous paragraph, simply doesn't linger on the teacher in his conversation with WWX; the focus is elsewhere. I think the point as a whole stands.

Now to the temple chapters. I think it's fairly well-known, at this point, that he doesn't bring up NMJ to JGY in the temple chapters, but I'm going to point it out again—he doesn't bring up NMJ to JGY in the temple chapters! And this is, I feel, even more significant in MDZS, where he's seen NMJ's fierce corpse. That said, there are a few instances where he reacts to NMJ/NMJ's corpse; I'm going to look at all of them.

First of all, in ch 104 when WWX says "Looks like being called the son of a prostitute is really Sect Leader Jin’s weak spot. No wonder you killed ChiFeng-Zun," we're told that "With the mention of Nie MingJue, Lan XiChen’s expression changed." No further details are provided; we don't know what it changes into, and the only hint we have as to what it changes /from/ is that LXC's last described reaction, only two paragraphs previous, was calling "Sect Leader Jin" because he knew JGY was about to fuck with JC. Also interestingly, LXC does /not/ have any reaction described when JGY and JC have the "isn't it hard being your shixiong/isn't it even harder being your sworn brother" exchange, earlier in chapter 101. Perhaps his reaction is simply not noted by the text—it seems unlikely he has literally zero reaction to it—but if we're looking for a difference, it seems like it's either the explicit reference to killing NMJ, or the reminder of NMJ calling JGY the son of a prostitute.

Second, there's the moment NMJ('s fierce corpse) shows up (ch 106). He, JGY, and NHS all say "Brother." JGY and LXC's responses are one paragraph after the other, and the punctuation is the same: "… Brother."* Meanwhile, NHS reacts first, a few paragraphs earlier, and he cries out, "Brother!!!" We're told that "[their] three tones were drastically different," which is interesting as well. NHS seems in the grip of some strong, active emotion—excitement? grief? We're explicitly told that JGY is scared. Whatever LXC's tone is, it's hard to say—but it's not like NHS'.

*(In the original text it looks like LXC's is "…Brother." and JGY's is "…Brother...", but either way they're significantly more similar to each other's than either is to NHS'.)

Thirdly and finally, when the Jin cultivators are fighting NMJ's corpse (ch 107), NHS peers out from behind LXC's back and calls out to NMJ ("both frightened and eager"), leading NMJ to charge at them. LXC stops him by playing Liebing, then then tries to get him to recognize identifying NHS ("Brother, this is Huaisang!"); the latter unfortunately does not work, NMJ being totally overcome by resentful energy. This section does actually have some evidence of grief: when he plays Liebing, it's described as "with a sob of Liebing."

He'll continue to try and deal with NMJ's corpse, notably with LWJ and WWX, but those three moments are the only times he reacts to NMJ (as NMJ, as opposed to as a fierce corpse that needs to be dealt with). That's not a lot, and each moment is very brief, not to mention fairly ambiguous about LXC's emotional reaction. If he /was/ being driven by his grief for NMJ's death, you would think we'd see more of it.

Furthermore, there's one moment I think it's important to pull out as explicitly not about NMJ. LXC tells JGY (and had told him previously) not to call LXC er-ge, /not/ because he killed da-ge (which you might expect!) but because of the second siege: “Sect Leader Jin, I have already said, when you went your own way to scheme such havoc at Burial Mound, that there was no longer the need to call me ‘Brother.’”

Now, to be clear, it's not that LXC's reactions to things just aren't described in the temple sequence in general. Obviously we see him react when he's telling LWJ about WWX's feelings, but even beyond that, even when he's occupying a more background role in the narrative, we're given his reaction quite a few times. He sighs when LWJ seals his spiritual powers (ch 100); he tends to NHS, covering with his outer robe (ch 102), comforting him when he's disturbed at the sight of the coffin (ch 103), protecting him from SMS (after NHS frames him for stabbing him, ch. 107) and from NMJ (ch 107), and comforting him and giving him pain medicine about the wound in his leg (ch 108); along with LWJ, he's distressed by the sound of JC's sword-scraping technique against JGY's music (ch 101); he tries to warn JC a couple of times when JC is fighting JGY (ch 101), cautions JL (ch 101) and later JC (ch 102) about worsening JC's injuries, and along with JL, WWX, and LWJ freezes when JC slaps JL to the ground (ch 102); he asks Minshan why he's being rude to LWJ, and a little later, with SMS and JL, pauses in astonishment when LWJ laughs (ch 100); he averts his gaze from and seems perhaps embarassed by the ghosts that WWX summons (ch 104); he calls out to WWX to remind him that his current body is closely related to JGY, and will therefore attract NMJ's fierce corpse (ch 107). He actually has a couple of entertaining reactions to Wangxian being Wangxian: he coughs and tells WWX it is maybe not the best time and place for this when WWX is about to repeat "I really wanted to sleep with you," and then later he and Jin Ling inexplicably! move their sitting cushions far away from Wangxian's and gaze into the distance (ch 100).

And more than anything else—in what I think is a very instructive contrast—he reacts to JGY, in a way that reflects an ongoing continual emotional investment. He is, quite notably, consistently worried about JGY and unable to stand the sight of him in pain, even when he thinks he shouldn't be. When the coffin trap goes off, and they overhear Jin cultivators wailing and a pungent smoke emerges, there's worry in LXC's eyes; after JGY and Minshan make it out, and JGY takes some medicine against the poison, LXC hesitates for a moment and then asks what happened (ch 103). After LWJ cuts JGY's hand off—which means /after/ he's taken JL hostage, note—LXC "seemed as though he wanted to help him for an instant," though "in the end he dared not" (ch 106). When Minshan asks him for medicine for JGY, seeing how terrible JGY looks, he hesitates slightly before they're interrupted by NMJ's success fighting the Jin cultivators (ch 107). After they've defeated NMJ, he treats JGY's wrist; moreover, "Seeing that Jin GuangYao almost passed out from the pain, Lan XiChen, who in the beginning wanted to use this to punish him, still didn’t have the heart to bear it," and goes for the pain-relief medicine from NHS. And this is all not even accounting for his reactions to JGY either during his questioning of JGY or post-stabbing!

And what about when he's distressed by JGY? When he's reacting with upset or anger? There seem to be two consistent threads: first, that JGY did awful things/hurt people /not/ under constraint, and second, the idea that he doesn't know JGY after all and their relationship was a lie.

For the first, he calls out Sect Leader Jin when JGY starts in on JC after JC calls him the son of a prostitute (ch 104), although notably he does not do the same in their earlier confrontation when JGY is distracting JC in order to defeat him, only warning JC (ch 101); when JGY confesses to having burned down the brothel, he's distressed when JGY says that it wasn't entirely to remove the traces (ch 105); he becomes /less/ angry about the second siege and about QS when it turns out that he was operating under constraint in those conditions (ch 106); and of course, the thing he's angriest about is JGY killing his father, "and even in such a way" (ch 106). In ch 103, looking down at the coffin he is shocked that JGY buried something that caused such horror to its surroundings, but without further information about JGY's reasons this does not metamorphose into anger.

For the second, when WWX him asks why there's no light shining from Shuoyue, he tells him "It's quite a shame," and that he "was fooled by lies" and had his cultivation sealed (ch 99); when JGY assures him that he'll let him and NHS go without harm when the time comes, he asks if he should believe him (ch 100); when JGY asks if LXC isn't going to ask him /why/ he set the fire (since it wasn't entirely to erace the traces), we have this important excerpt (ch 105):

“In the past, it was not that I did not know what you did, but that I believed you had your reasons behind doing them.”

He continued, “But, you have done too much. And I… no longer know if I should believe you.”

Fatigue and disappointment sunk heavily into his tone.

And then after JGY takes JL hostage (ch 106), this one:

Lan XiChen spoke slowly, “Sect Leader Jin, you lied again.”

Jin GuangYao, “Just this once. There’ll be no next time.”

Lan XiChen, “This was what you said last time. I can no longer tell which of your words are true.”

LXC asks him about the letter in the first place because "whenever he heard there might be hiddenmight hidden reasons, he just had to hear it" (ch 105); when WWX challenges him before he tends to JGY's wounds, he says "Many things still remain unanswered" (ch 108).

His upset at JGY "attacking" him is in ch 108, I think, a combination of the two—in CQL, it reads more like he's angry that JGY took an action that made him need to attack JGY than anything else, but in MDZS he experiences it as a real betrayal: "As he saw Nie HuaiSang’s expression along with the warning, he felt something in his heart go cold." Because it would have been one; it's a line that JGY hasn't crossed, and as it turns out it's a line that JGY hadn't crossed, and would never.

And lastly, after JGY's death, we have once again LXC's explicit statement of his difficulties—and while LXC's post-stabbing difficulties could be different from his pre-stabbing ones, it's at least an important consideration, and it is in line with the rest of what we see:

“… Just what does he want to do? I once thought I knew him well, and then I realized I did not. Before tonight, I thought I knew him well once more, but now I do not.” Nobody could give him an answer. Lan XiChen repeated in frustration, “Just what does he want to do?”

Looking over the evidence, he's hurt and angry that JGY would do awful things not under constraint, and about the idea that he doesn't know JGY after all/their relationship is a lie. I do think it's unlikely that he's zero percent upset about JGY contributing to NMJ's death—I tend to think they talked about if offscreen, between LXC leaving with him from Gusu and WWX finding them in the temple, and that's why LXC doesn't bring him up in the temple sequence. But whatever he's feeling, his reactions to JGY don't seem to be about his own personal grief for or relationship with NMJ, and if they /had/ been about that I think there's several moments in the temple that would have played out differently.

One last note: I see often the idea that LXC going into seclusion after JGY's death is for his grief about /both/ his sworn brothers. At this point, you're probably unsurprised to learn that I don't think the evidence supports this. Not only, again, do we have very little evidence of his personal grief for NMJ post-timeskip—ten years past NMJ's death!—even after NMJ shows up again, but there's a distinct change in him after JGY dies. Before that, he's obviously distressed, but he's still tracking and on top of things; afterwards, on the other hand, we're told that "If it were the usual ZeWu-Jun, he couldn’t have failed to fathom [what WWX was suggesting the letter be intended to cause]. But right now, it was likely he had no more space in his mind to think" (ch 109), which tracks pretty well with his absent-mindedness at the banquet a few months down the line (ch 116). Nothing about LWJ's discussion with WWX of LXC's state suggests it's at all precedented (ch 115), and in fact when LQR talks to him immediately after JGY dies, we're told that "Lan XiChen’s face was full of an unspeakable grief" and that "Lan QiRen had never seen Lan XiChen, a child he single-handedly brought up, look so agitated and discomposed" (ch 110). JGY's death is a breaking point; NMJ's death, at the time or now, simply is not.

In conclusion, while he was certainly friends with NMJ pre-Sunshot, and that is genuinely rare for LXC, they began to grow apart during Sunshot; and while LXC continued to care for NMJ, he was not at all intimate with him, and showed no sign of particularly enjoying or seeking out his company. Later, while he is certainly disturbed at the idea that JGY might have killed NMJ, this is because it suggests that he /doesn't/ know JGY after all, and his reactions to JGY then and at the temple are not driven by his personal grief for or relationship with NMJ, nor is his seclusion in any way related to his feelings for NMJ.

ETA: All quotes taken from the Exiled Rebels translation.

ETA: I discuss some critique of this by @/hqfeels here.

#ship negativity cw #ship meme #I'm done!!!#good fucking god this took me a month #that damn bingo post #long meta #profound philosophical differences #anger burned in his heart #the best of men #a gentle warmth filling the deepest of needs

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