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crehador · 2 months

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brother crab's winter 2024 parting thoughts: high card s2

WHAT THE HELL

HIGH CARD IS GOOD?!

tl;dr very flashy and aesthetic, consistently good in that regard, but the story was not always gripping to me. however, with the ultimate payoff in the last three eps, totally worth it imo

full review:

wow wow wow i'm kind of glad i fell way behind on anime and had the last three eps of s2 to binge all at once because hoooly shit i enjoyed that immensely

at no point did i think high card was bad, but it definitely had moments where it didn't fully grab me. there were times when it felt like all flash, no substance

and it's definitely not perfect, i have some serious and fairly significant gripes with it. mainly i'm really bummed that leo, wendy, and vijay never really got fully fleshed out. i mean i get it, finn's the main character and chris is the thinly veiled love interest also important so obviously they're going to take up most of the time, but i really feel like the other members of the crew had so much unexplored potential (especially wendy and vijay, because leo did sort of get his moment as a factor in the old man yaoi situation)

speaking of which THE OLD MAN YAOI!! man there were a lot of moving pieces in this show, and sometimes they came together in messy ways (or didn't really come together at all... some bits do still feel pretty disjointed and jumpy to me, tbh)

but overall the payoff of the s2 finale was absolutely worth it to me, particularly since it dealt with my favorites of those moving pieces: the old man yaoi and the sudden YANDERE ONIISAN ARC

i find myself really wishing the show had gone harder on both of those threads sooner, but like... honestly i'm not disappointed with how they played out. the whole theodore and ban thing could not have been more tropey (YEARS of loathing only for a "the one i wanted to protect all along was... you" and then dying for each other like HELLO yes an absolute tropefest BUT TROPES THAT I LOVE. GOOD FOR THOSE TOXIC DOOMED YAOI MFERS)

tilt has always been fascinating to me right from the character design and i am more or less satisfied with how things played out for him too, though i kind of wish we'd had more of this development spread throughout the series. i guess it was there, but... i dunno. in some ways feels like there could have been More (but i may be biased)

like you gotta feel bad for him, it's a sad story, but also that extreeemely creepy unhinged yandere oniisan "i have been stalking you i literally have a wall with giant blown up photos of you i hate the other guy who is calling himself your brother" sequence was SO FUCKING DELICIOUS LIKE WTF??? stunned and absolutely blown away by how hard they went on that, what a delight

(ironically it makes me think about how unhinged matakara in bucchigiri?! just doesn't work while unhinged tilt in high card works super well, but this is not about bucchigiri?! so i won't get too into that)

i am still admittedly just. kind of like. idk. i go back and forth on finn and chris, as characters and as partners. i don't dislike them but they aren't always all that compelling to me. sometimes they definitely are, but sometimes they just fall a bit flat to me. this probably isn't an issue with them as characters, though, just a matter of taste. i occasionally found the chemistry between them lacking as well, but sometimes it was really on point

same feeling about the crew dynamics in general. i looove a good like heist crew or spy agency crew, whatever it is, when the dynamics just click. and sometimes they didn't, here. i am too sleepy to articulate it properly right now but it just felt like there was something missing, some pieces not really fitting together. i didn't dislike any of the characters, but just... i guess wanted more team shenanigans? maybe there was no time for that but it would have been nice (like this is one show that could have done with a few filler and/or fluff episodes, imo!)

anyway. christ. my eye emoji-ing at tilt based solely on his character design finally paid off after two gay ass seasons lmao. good night

#crab watches #winter 2024 #parting thoughts #high card #GENUINELY WAS NOT EXPECTING TO ENJOY THE LAST THREE EPS THIS MUCH BUT I SO SO SO DID #although lol holy infodump tf #this show loooves its infodumps esp in the second half of the second season #i didn't personally mind all the monologuing that much i guess #like it delivered the information fine #but the fact that there were so many ''LET ME TELL YOU A STORY YOU'VE NEVER HEARD BEFORE'' scenes in a ROW #was just kind of funny #anyway. it's not like overall the best thing ever but it is wild fun and really paid off in the end (for me at least)#i am a sucker for toxic old man yaoi and the yandere oniisan was a bonus #damn that was fun #alright. going to sleep for real now lmao

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myalchod · 7 months

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Hello, my darling giftee!💙 How have you been?

I have a feeling you’d be glad to hear that your answer to my previous question brought tears to my eyes. Honestly, I can’t stop thinking about “The five stages of grief”.

Today I’d love to hear about your most favorite tropes and headcanons for Farah and Saul(but you have to pick only one for each and one for them as a pair,not necessarily romantic)

Always yours,

you *relatively soon* know who💌

Oh my goddddddddddd, HEX anon, I adore you and I hate you so much for this ask. Because one each?! Do you have any idea how hard decisions are for me in the best of circumstances? This is cruelty!

(Given how much I screamed at this ask, I am going to enjoy that my responses gave you pain last time. It seems only fair with how much I suffered in trying to address this. I'm glad "the five stages of grief" got you -- that ending remains firmly lodged in my head and will not get out, so it seems only fair to share it!)

Anyway. Headcanons. I don't promise I succeeded at single choices because it gets blurry, but I tried! I also don't know that they're most favourite because that's like picking your favourite fluffy beast from a pile of adorable snuggly kittens and puppies, but let's call them among my favourites?

Farah: I know there's a good part of fandom that loves Mama Farah, literal or figurative, but in my head she never wanted children, and some days the idea that she is positioned as a mother figure to an entire school of teenagers makes her want to scream as much as it makes her want to laugh. It's one more part of the complicated equation that adds up to her finding distance easier. (She's always been socially awkward, and it just got worse with everything, but the lack of maternal impulses isn't just the product of how she was raised. Doesn't mean she won't get ferally protective when it comes to her charges, just ... not that way.)

Saul: Inverting the above, Saul does have paternal instincts, but he's suppressed the ever-loving shit out of them because he doesn't feel like he deserves to have them. He's living a life he stole, and while I don't see him as particularly competitive, the idea that he hasn't earned what he's been given has absolutely embedded itself into his psyche and is a constant background noise. As much as Farah may have lived their sixteen years after Aster Dell trying to not be Rosalind, Saul lived them trying to be Andreas -- not the actual man, but the idealised version he built in his head and raised Sky with stories of. (Sixteen years of "what would Andreas do" that only become "what would Farah do" when she is gone and Andreas is back, and damned if that doesn't rub salt into all of his wounds. The ghosts are real.)

Silrah: Regardless of whether one reads them as romantic or platonic, I headcanon an incredibly strong bond between them (literally and/or figuratively) -- there's a foundation of friendshp and familiarity through the years that underscores all of their interactions and that's where everything else builds from. Both of them are terrible at trust, including trusting themselves, but they trust each other -- to the point that Saul is Farah's moral centre (irony not lost here), and she is perhaps his cause (not entirely sure how to phrase that; it's less solid in my head).

tl;dr my blorbos are oblivous idiots and I love them for it and I have headcanons for days even if they're 99% incoherent screaming? I hope this helps you, anyway! It didn't help me in the least. 😭 I'm just going to be a mess of unexpected feels and useless thoughts over here for the rest of the night.

#ftwsholidayexchange #fate the winx saga #farah dowling #saul silva #silrah #my beloved morons #headcanons #asked and answered

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vvienne · 3 years

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CHENGXIAN FIC RECS

Petals on a Wet Black Bough by DachOsmin

While drinking at a tavern that caters to men that favor men, Jiang Cheng happens upon a masked stranger that looks eerily like his dead brother.

from these nettles, alms by callowyn, zorrosuchil

Jiang Cheng didn’t have a plan for Wei Wuxian coming back into his life, and he realizes now this was a mistake. He’s going to slip up. He’s going to give it all away.

Fate—or at least Jin Ling—is going to make sure of it.

you're the one that I want by verity

They haven't really talked about what's going on between them, except this morning while Jiang Cheng was eating breakfast and Wei Wuxian was lying on the sofa with his arm over his eyes, Wei Wuxian said, "Are you going to be weird about it if I hold your hand in front of our friends?"

Jiang Cheng chewed his youtiao.

"Just let me know," Wei Wuxian said. "It's chill."

Oh, Jiang Cheng knew very well that it was not chill. But he wasn't like Wei Wuxian; he couldn't just do things like that, like it was nothing. Wei Wuxian could name his sword—gleaming now on the rack above his head—Suibian, he could do whatever he wanted. He got all the curses and the blessings of being always inside and outside the Jiangs, and Jiang Cheng got everything else.

"You can hold my hand," Jiang Cheng said after he swallowed, feeling like he'd just walked over a bed of hot coals.

letters from inside the storm by serein

"Jiang Cheng," Wei Wuxian hears himself say, echoing and strange as if from underwater. His hands feel slow and fumbling as he reaches for Jiang Cheng's chest, watching the blood soak through the silk and keep dripping.

______________

A year post-canon, Jiang Cheng takes a blade meant for Wei Wuxian. Things unravel.

family resemblance by ruche

“I am good-looking,” Wei Wuxian cuts in, theatrically pouting. Then he drops the act and gestures at Jiang Cheng’s-- everything, “but in a different way than you, obviously.”

In which Wei Wuxian takes Jiang Cheng to a sex store. They are, as always, so incredibly supportive of each other.

i was put together wrong, still i was made for you by finedae

Wei Wuxian wakes up in Mo Xuanyu's body, and the five slits across his wrist. He also wakes up in a brothel where the Mo family had sent Mo Xuanyu after the embarrassment of harassing Sect Leader Jin Guangyao, his half brother and now Chief Cultivator.

Jiang Cheng pays for a night, looking for a demonic cultivator.

too much, not enough by Shamelesscooper

“Okay, so good news!” Wei Wuxian says, swanning into the room with just enough energetic cheer that Jiang Cheng knows whatever it is he’s going to say is going to be awful. “We figured out the nature of your curse! You’re probably not going to die! It’s not even going to hurt!”

“Yeah? And what’s the bad news?” Jiang Cheng gruffs, crossing his arms over his chest.

Wei Wuxian does a double-take, like he’d expected his (fake) good mood to fool Jiang Cheng. Like it’s ever managed to fool Jiang Cheng. His laugh is a little shrill, a little frenetic as he says, “Well, uh. You know our ghost friend back there? Yeah, she’s possessing you. Which is why...” He makes a gesture at the general area of Jiang Cheng’s... problem.

“Ah,” Jiang Cheng said, expression souring. “I’m not going to like the cure, am I?”

“You’re not going to like the cure,” Wei Wuxian nods.

Jiang Cheng gets cursed on a nighthunt. Wei Wuxian helps him with the cure.

Halves by jusrecht

What do you call halves that fit each other in all the wrong ways?

Start a Riot by ohwhatevrewhatevr

“They killed A-Die and A-Niang,” Jiang Cheng says, his sharp but defined muscular frame curling in. He's all lean, purposeful muscle, nude and bruised.

“Wei Wuxian -” Jiang Cheng grits out in a dangerous, furious rasp - there’s a slight tremor to it still. He still isn’t looking at Wei Ying, just lying there limp, his face to his side, showing his profile and those sharp cheekbones. “Where the hell did you go? Where did you go that was worth leaving me behind ?”

“I-”

“And why won’t you tell me? Why won’t you-”

TL;DR Jiang Cheng goes into heat, they fuck, and hormones make them spill some of the beans before they go spill some Wen blood. (no romance happens :/, just sex)

like you’ve never known fear by tsunderestorm

He doesn’t want to take it slow, because Wei Wuxian doesn’t want things slow. Wei Wuxian wants passion and skill and things Jiang Cheng doesn’t have, he just has anger and inferiority and a head full of fucking thoughts that won’t stop running around and bumping into one another when he’s trying to focus on this.

翻云覆雨 // in clouds and rainfall by oh_fudgecakes

A night hunt goes wrong when the group encounters a Qiongqi. While protecting his nephew, Jiang Cheng is hit with poison by the beast. They don’t have time to research an antidote, but prolonged dual cultivation with another cultivator will neutralize the poison...

When he’s chosen for the job, Wei Wuxian is surprised, and determined to give his shidi a good time. Alternatively: In Which Yunmeng Recon Happens While Wei Wuxian is Balls Deep In Jiang Cheng.

oh my god they were (step)brothers by serein

"Really, boys?" Yanli sighs. "Right in front of my salad?"

________________________

chengxian and step-brothers porn tropes: a montage.

baby it's a black hole by villainousfriend (katzenfabrik)

"What's wrong, Jiang Cheng?" he asks suddenly, looking up from his bowl.

Jiang Cheng just meets his gaze, not even lifting an arm to convey, Where do you want me to start?

"You've been... staring at me, this whole evening, shidi," Wei Wuxian adds, more slowly. The colour in his cheeks didn't fade after the bath, and now, with the food and candles, the room's got stuffy and he's even pinker than before. It should look healthy but it only highlights the shadows under his eyes, so deep they look like grooves in the skin.

"No, I haven't," he says automatically, and shoves a meatball in his mouth.

Jiang Cheng meets up with Wei Wuxian after Baoshan Sanren restores his golden core, just as they planned. After this, surely things are going to go right, right?

don't you worry honey, 'cause i can't say no by Runespoor

Wei Wuxian tests a talisman and hopes Jiang Cheng doesn’t make it weird.

hungry little fool by serein

Despite the easy warmth of the picture, Jiang Cheng immediately pegs something as wrong.

Wei Wuxian's looking at his slim forearms, held aloft in the air, with that look on his face like his unease is lapping at the edges, threatening to escape.

Like the tide is rising too high, and it's threatening to wash Wei Wuxian away.

[soft chengxian post-canon ft learning to love your new body]

lotus bridge by Sectionladvivi

Wei WuXian comes to visit Jiang Cheng's shitty apartment and they wax nostalgic about when they used to whack off to porn together as teens.

for a moment (i forget to worry) by everyearning (noctiphany)

He wants to fuck him, of course he does. But this is good. It’s almost too good. Wei Wuxian is afraid of things that feel too good now, too scared that he’ll wake up and it will all have been a dream. But he thinks as long as he can keep them like this, right on the precipice, maybe he won’t have to find out. Maybe this won’t get stolen from him like so many other good things.

smoke by serein

"You do piss me off," Jiang Cheng replied automatically, ignoring Wei Wuxian's faux-sad swoon. Jiang Cheng scowled. "If I'm such an oblivious idiot, why didn't you say something?"

Wei Wuxian huffed. "Well they're very confusing feelings to explain, Jiang Cheng. I want to kill anyone who thinks they can hurt you, but I also want to fuck you until you cry." Oh. Jiang Cheng's stomach fluttered in mixed interest and trepidation.

Canon divergent AU chengxian ft. Jiang Cheng's not so subtle danger kink and Wei Wuxian being a jealous, dangerous gremlin.

when everything soft abrades you by tsunderestorm

Jiang Cheng had said “no” when Wei Wuxian had first asked him to wear lacy panties and a bra when they fucked. He doesn’t feel bad about that, either - after all, it hadn’t even been a serious request, more rather one of Wei Wuxian’s off-hand, teasing remarks. They come off as jokes - at least, he means for them to - but Jiang Cheng knows from experience that they are backed one hundred and ten percent by Wei Wuxian’s modus operandi of “haha, unless it you’re into it though”.

Turns out Jiang Cheng is into it, too.

weaving figure eights and circles by vrooom

“Wait hold on. Jiang Cheng?” The voice is no longer sultry. It’s matter of fact, incredulous, and horrifyingly familiar in a way that makes Jiang Cheng’s insides shrivel up and crumble into dust.

“Wei Wuxian?” Jiang Cheng says, holding the phone as far away from his ear as possible. He glares at the phone like it personally betrayed him. “What the fuck are you doing on my phone sex line?”

can’t train a moth by Runespoor

"Hey. You alright?"

"My boyfriend wants to put nudes of me after sex on Grindr. Take a wild guess."

Wei Wuxian and Jiang Cheng attempt communication and a new kink.

clothes make the man by verity

Jiang Cheng requires a new suit. Wei Wuxian removes it.

#chengxian #mdzs #mdzs recs #jiang cheng #wei wuxian #fic recs

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bthump · 3 years

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You probably already answered this before, but why did Judeau stop Rickert from telling Guts that Griffith was so broken up about him leaving? Does Judeau not want Guts to feel guilty or emotionally overwhelmed? Is it because he is trying to protect Casca's feelings (she's not even present in the scene)? I'm just not sure what was up with that.

Oooh man I love that moment so much, I have talked about it before but I'm more than happy to talk about it again lol. (Here's the short version if you prefer, but I want to thoroughly dig into what Judeau's doing here in one post.)

Judeau has pretty much one role in the story at this point and that's to convince Guts and Casca to fuck. Seriously lol that's like his sole function once the gtsca subplot kicks off. Especially in this scene - on the very next page Judeau changes the subject to Casca taking over as leader and then mentions that he thinks it's unfair to her.

Later in the scene he straight up tells Guts that she was calling his name in her fever dreams while recovering from arrow wounds, and ofc this all comes after Judeau initially planted the idea in Guts' head right before Guts left, in chapter 33. And finally he finishes this scene with the unsubtle suggestion that only Guts can do something to save Casca from the burden of leadership:

Note Rickert's little question mark after Judeau finishes - it's calling attention to Judeau's clear agenda and the artificiality of what he's saying. It's a way of highlighting his manipulativeness here. This is further cemented by moments like the aforementioned headshake, or Guts giving him a straight up suspicious look when Judeau tells him to leave with Casca again shortly before the Eclipse:

It's funny like, the first time Judeau directly brings up the possibility of Guts hooking up with her Guts is surprised and calls his suggestion random:

At this point this reads like Judeau being a bro and giving Guts genuine helpful advice, and Guts awkwardly protesting because he hasn't considered the romantic tension between him and Casca, so he needs a friend to point it out for him. Basic romance trope, right?

But then it just keeps happening, until Guts flat out looks annoyed and questioning the final time Judeau suggests it.

Ultimately I think Judeau is an instance of Miura adding a little bit of realistic complication to the typical matchmaker/good advice friend character. Judeau isn't just trying to set Guts and Casca up because he thinks they'd be good for each other or because he wants his friends to be happy - Judeau is lowkey in love with Casca, doesn't think he's good enough for her, but thinks that Guts is, because Guts is a master at something and Judeau isn't, and that's how Judeau judges people's worth, because he's got some self-esteem issues. He explains this in the very same chapter he starts encouraging gtsca to happen:

And of course his final words before he dies are an expression of regret that he never told Casca "that important thing."

Basically what I'm getting at here is that Judeau is consistently the one who encourages Guts to bone Casca, from getting Guts to first consider it when he never had before, to subtly (and later less subtly) influencing Guts to take Casca away from the Hawks with him. Our attention is drawn to this through characters' reactions to Judeau's words, like Rickert's questioning and Guts' irritation. And when we learn that Judeau is in love with Casca, we should also then be able to realize that his role was not your classic, shallow "good friend giving good advice" dude, but rather "biased friend giving biased advice because he has his own issues too, because Miura enjoys playing with classic tropes" dude.

SO ALL THAT SAID, when Rickert tries to tell Guts how Griffith feels about him and Judeau subtly tells him to shut up? That is directly telling us that Guts understanding how Griffith really feels about him is incompatible with his relationship with Casca. Judeau wants that relationship to happen, which is especially highlighted in this chapter, and he doesn't want Guts to know that Griffith destroyed his own life because Guts left. Guts and Casca only connect romantically when Griffith and his feelings are out of the picture.

And honestly, that tracks completely.

Guts textually initiates sex with her as a distraction from thinking about all the painful Griffith-related shit he let Casca stab him over and Casca tried to kill herself over:

Much the same way Griffith initiated sex with Charlotte while telling her to take all the sad and frightening things and cast them into the fire.

After having sex with Casca he manages to bury the realization that Griffith loves him for a good three days even after he let Casca stab him out of guilt for abandoning Griffith (not to mention Rickert telling him), and only fully accepts that knowledge in chapter 71 with the line "Why do I always see these things after they're done and gone?" Appropriately enough, right after Casca has broken up with him.

More generally, Guts and Casca start feeling jealous and getting weird during the rescue mission as they get closer and closer to Griffith, Griffith is why Casca breaks up with him and also why Guts privately chooses not to leave with Casca after all but to stay with Griffith before that, after the Eclipse Guts abandons Casca to chase Griffith, after Hill of Swords he chooses to stay with Casca after Griffith tells him he has no feelings and ditches him in the snow, the Beast of Darkness tells Guts to leave Casca to find Griffith, Casca wakes up and can’t look at him while Guts can’t get Griffith’s intense stare out of his head...

Casca, imo, is a method of repression, a straightforward goal Guts can focus on to avoid thinking about his complicated feelings, and to keep thinking of Griffith as a godlike, unreachable figure.

uhhhhh yeah so tl;dr that panel means Judeau knows that Guts isn't gonna want to fuck Casca if he finds out he can fuck Griffith instead.

(or yk phrase it as “judeau knows guts isn’t gonna want to leave with casca if he finds out griffith fell to pieces when he left the first time and therefore the whole become griffith’s equal to get his attention thing was bullshit all along’ but same difference)

#lol you should probably read the short version but ykw this was fun to write #ask #Anonymous #a #b #character: judeau #ship: gtsca #ship: griffguts #theme: repression #scene: pre rescue #ty for the ask!#long post

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qqueenofhades · 4 years

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I really don’t want to start a discourse™, but I want you to know that I really appreciate how you write joe and Nicky in deo volente. So many of the fics I’ve read have placed yusef in the role of more sexually experienced and less devoted to god, while Nicky is depicted as an inexperienced and virginal priest/knight/monk and so forth and so on. Your narrative of joe out there rescuing people and being faithful, while Nicky looks back on his life of gambling and pleasures of the flesh ...(1/?)

Not to say that there’s anything wrong with either, obviously. I love guilty priest Nicky and repressed Nicky and p much every Nicky. But in the vast array of fics out there, it’s rare to see the opposite. Not that you’re working in a binary morally good/religious vs. not way. Your writing in the fic is really subtle and and your characterizations reveal a lot of depth. I just think it’s cool to see Nicky, average second son of a duke, drinking and gambling and feeling terribly guilty (2/?)

Guilty about the crusades and the fucking horror of crusade 1 without being excessively devout. Just an average dude. Not some paragon of virtue (btw, I’m on chapter 2 of the fic, so I don’t know how much your characterization changes moving forward. You have a lovely ability to combine your incredible knowledge of history, your beautiful writing, and these intimate details of the characters that make them fit— fit the canon and fit the history. (3/? Shit I’m sorry this had gotten way too long)

I enjoy the way you’ve really inserted us into the quotidian aspect of history. Aaaaaanyway— the discourse that I was afraid of: I think that a lot of fans of the movie that are generating fan content (tysfm to all of you beauties, btw 🙏🙏♥️) are westerners (which is a whole nother kettle of fish) and that carries a sort of ignorance about the Muslim world in the Middle Ages and this desire to simplify Europe as “Christian” “fighters for faith” etc. (4/? Fuuuuck. One(??) more)

And when we do that, we end up as characterizing the brown people as “not that”. The thing I love about this fandom is that people are definitely down on the crusades. I feel like all the fic I’ve read has been particularly negative about those wars, but the thing I love about your fic is that you don’t just say war is bad because people died and it was despicable and this pious white dude says so and this one brown person agrees. (5/6, I see the end in sight I swear it)

Instead you give us a larger cast of Muslims and Arabs and really flesh them out and give them opinions and different interpretations of faith, and I really appreciate that. The crusades were terrible, and we know this because these regular dudes who struggle with their different faiths and lives say so. And I just. I think that’s really great. Also, I fucking love yusef’s mom. I feel like more people would be accepting of the gift in this fashion and I think she’s lovely and (god damn it 6/7)

Aaaaaaaand. The bit where yusef returns and she’s already gone breaks my fucking heart. Also the moment where he’s like “I’m not sure about Abraham’s god, but my mothers god is worth my faith”?? Just really fucking great. So. Excellent fic. Excellent characters. Excellent not-being-accidentally-biased-towards-white-Christians. That is what I came here to say. Thank you so much for your amazing stories. I love them and I love history. Sorry about the rambling. idek how I wrote so much. (7/7)

Epilogue: tl;dr: you’re great.

Oh man! What a huge and thoughtful comment (which will in turn provoke a long-ass response from me, so…) I absolutely agree that no matter what fandom, I don’t do Discourse TM; I just sit in my bubble and stay in my lane and do my own thing and create content I enjoy. And I don’t even think this is that so much as just… general commentary on character and background? So obviously all of this should be read as my own personal experience and choices in writing DVLA, and that alone. I really appreciate you for saying that you love a wide range of fan creators/fanworks and you’re not placing one over another, you understand that fans have diverse ranges of backgrounds/experience with history and other cultures when they create content, and that’s not the same for everyone. So I just think that’s a great and respectful way to start things off.

First, as a professional historian who has written a literal PhD thesis on the crusades, I absolutely understand that many people (and regular fans) will not have the same privilege/education/perspective that I do, and that’s fine! They should not be expected to get multiple advanced degrees to enjoy a Netflix movie! But since I DO have that background, and since I’ve been working on the intellectual genealogy of the crusades (and the associated Christian/Muslim component, whether racially or religiously) since I was a master’s student, I have a lot of academic training and personal feelings that inform how I write these characters. Aside from my research on all this, my sister lives in an Islamic country and her boyfriend is a Muslim man; I’ve known a lot of Muslims and Middle Easterners; and especially with the current political climate of Islamophobia and the reckoning with racism whether in reality or fandom, I have been thinking about all this a lot, and my impact on such.

Basically: I love Nicky dearly, but I ADORE Joe, and as such, I’m protective of him and certainly very mindful of how I write him. Especially when the obvious default for westerners in general, fandom-related or otherwise, is to write what you are familiar with (i.e. the European Christian white character) and be either less comfortable or less confident or sometimes less thoughtful about his opposing number. I have at times tangentially stumbled across takes on Joe that turn me into the “eeeeeeeh” emoji or Dubious Chrissy Teigen, but I honestly couldn’t tell you anything else about them because I was like, “nope not for me” and went elsewhere rather than do Discourse (which is pretty much a waste of time everywhere and always makes people feel bad). This is why I’m always selective about my fan content, but especially so with this ship, because I have SO much field-specific knowledge that I just have to make what I like and which suits my personal tastes. So that is what I do.

Obviously, there’s a troublesome history with the trope of “sexually liberate brown person seduces virginal white character into a world of Fleshly Decadence,” whether from the medieval correlation of “sodomite” and “Saracen,” or the nineteenth-century Orientalist depictions of the East as a land variously childishly simplistic, societally backward, darkly mysterious and Exotic, or “decadent” (read: code for sexually unlike Western Europe, including the spectrum of queer acts). So when I was writing DVLA, I absolutely did not want to do that and it’s not to my taste, but I’m not going to whip out a red pen on someone else writing a story that broadly follows those parameters (because as I said, I stay in my lane and don’t see it anyway). Joe to me is just such an intensely complex and lovely Muslim character that that’s the only way I feel like I can honestly write him, and I absolutely love that about him. So yeah, any depiction of hypersexualizing him or making him only available for the sexual use and education of the white character(s) is just... mmm, not for me.

For example, I stressed over whether it was appropriate to move his origin from “somewhere in the Maghreb” to Cairo specifically, since Egypt, while it IS in North Africa, is not technically part of the Maghreb. I realize that Marwan Kenzari’s family is Tunisian and that’s probably why they chose it, to honor the actor’s heritage, but on the flip side… “al-Kaysani” is also a specifically Ismai’li Shia name (it’s the name of a branch of it) and the Fatimids (the ruling dynasty in Jerusalem at the time of the First Crusade) were well-known for being the only Ismai’li Shia caliphate. (This is why the Shi’ites still ancestrally dislike Saladin for overthrowing it in 1174, even if Saladin is a huge hero to the rest of the Islamic world.) Plus I really wanted to use medieval Cairo as Joe’s homeland, and it just made more sense for an Ismai’li Shia Fatimid from Cairo (i.e. the actual Muslim denomination and caliphate that controlled Jerusalem) to be defending the Holy City because it was personal for him, rather than a Sunni Zirid from Ifriqiya just kind of turning up there. Especially due to the intense fragmentation and disorganization in the Islamic world at the time of the First Crusade (which was a big part of the reason it succeeded) and since the Zirids were a breakaway group from the Fatimids and therefore not very likely to be militarily allied with them. As with my personal gripes about Nicky being a priest, I decided to make that change because I felt, as a historian, that it made more sense for the character. But I SUPER recognize it as my own choices and tweaks, and obviously I’m not about to complain at anyone for writing what’s in graphic novel/bonus content canon!

That ties, however, into the fact that Nicky has a clearly defined city/region of origin (Genoa, which has a distinct history, culture, and tradition of crusading) and Joe is just said to be from “the Maghreb” which…. is obviously huge. (I.e. anywhere in North Africa west of Egypt all the way to Morocco.) And this isn’t a fandom thing, but from the official creators/writers of the comics and the movie. And I’m over here like: okay, which country? Which city? Which denomination of Islam? You’ve given him a Shia name but then point him to an origin in Sunni Ifriqiya. If he’s from there, why has he gone thousands of miles to Jerusalem in the middle of a dangerous war to help his religious/political rivals defend their territory? Just because he’s nice? Because it was an accident? Why is his motivation or reason for being there any less defined or any less religious (inasmuch as DVLA Nicky’s motive for being on the First Crusade is religious at all, which is not very) than the white character’s? In a sense, the Christians are the ones who have to work a lot harder to justify their presence in the Middle East in the eleventh century at all: the First Crusade was a specifically military and offensive invasion launched at the direct behest of the leader of the Western Roman church (Pope Urban II.) So the idea that they’re “fighting for the faith” or defending it bravely is…

Eeeeh. (Insert Dubious Chrissy Teigen.)

But of course, nobody teaches medieval history to anyone in America (except for Bad Game of Thrones History Tee Em), and they sure as hell don’t teach about the crusades (except for the Religious Violence Bad highlight reel) so people don’t KNOW about these things, and I wish they DID know, and that’s why I’m over here trying to be an academic so I can help them LEARN it, and I get very passionate about it. So once again, I entirely don’t blame people who have acquired this distorted cultural impression of the crusades and don’t want to do a book’s worth of research to write a fic about a Netflix movie. I do hope that they take the initiative to learn more about it because they’re interested and want to know more, since by nature the pairing involves a lot of complex religious, racial, and cultural dynamics that need to be handled thoughtfully, even if you don’t know everything about it. So like, basically all I want is for the Muslim character(s) to be given the same level of respect, attention to detail, background story, family context, and religious diversity as any of the white characters, and Imma do it myself if I have to. Dammit.

(I’m really excited to hear your thoughts on the second half of the fic, especially chapter 3 and chapter 6, but definitely all of it, since I think the characters they’re established as in the early part of the fic do remain true to themselves and both grow and struggle and go through a realistic journey with their faith over their very long lives, and it’s one of my favorite themes about DVLA.)

Anyway, about Nicky. I also made the specific choice to have him be an average guy, the ordinary second son of a nobleman who doesn’t really know what he’s doing with his life and isn’t the mouthpiece of Moral Virtue in the story, since as he himself realizes pretty quick, the crusades and especially the sack/massacre of Jerusalem are actually horrific. I’ve written in various posts about my nitpicking gripes with him being a priest, so he’s not, and as I said, I’m definitely avoiding any scenario where he has to Learn About The World from Joe. That is because I want to make the point that the people on the crusades were people, and they went for a lot of different reasons, not all of which were intense personal religious belief. The crusades were an institution and operated institutionally. Even on the First Crusade, where there were a lot of ordinary people who went because of sincere religious belief, there was the usual bad behavior by soldiers and secular noblemen and people who just went because it was the thing to do. James Brundage has an article about prostitution and miscegenation and other sexual activity on the First Crusade; even at the height of this first and holy expedition, it was happening. So Nicky obviously isn’t going to be the moral exemplar because a) the crusades are horrific, he himself realizes that, and b) it’s just as historically accurate that he wouldn’t be anyway. Since the idea is that medieval crusaders were all just zealots and ergo Not Like Us is dangerous, I didn’t want to do that either. If we think they all went because they were all personally fervent Catholics and thus clearly we couldn’t do the same, then we miss a lot of our own behavior and our parallel (and troubling) decisions, and yeah.

As well, I made a deliberate choice to have Nicky’s kindness (which I LOVE about him, it’s one of my favorite things, god how refreshing to have that be one of the central tenets of a male warrior character) not to be something that was just… always there and he was Meek and Good because a priest or whatever else. Especially as I’ve gotten older and we’ve all been living through these ridiculous hellyears (2020 is the worst, but it’s all been general shit for a while), I’ve thought more and more about how kindness is an active CHOICE and it’s as transgressive as anything else you can do and a whole lot more brave than just cynicism and nihilism and despair. As you’ll see in the second half of the fic, Nicky (and Joe) have been through some truly devastating things and it might be understandable if they gave into despair, but they DON’T. They choose to continue to be good people and to try and to actively BE kind, rather than it being some passive default setting. They struggle with it and it’s raw and painful and they’re not always saints, but they always come down on the side of wanting to keep doing what they’re doing, and I… have feelings about that.

Anyway, this is already SUPER long, so I’ll call it quits for now. But thank you so much for this, because I love these characters and I love the story I created for them in DVLA, since all this is personal to me in a lot of ways, and I’m so glad you picked up on that.

#history #medieval history #queer history #dvla asks #long post #the old guard meta #anonymous #ask

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neuxue · 4 years

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Hello hello. I just started watching The Untamed and found your blog and it's been a lot of fun because, somebody has already put my mental screaming into words so thank you for that! I'm kind of mentally stuck on the events of the Lotus Pavillion massacre tho and just had to get my thoughts out because I haven't seen this said anywhere yet? So,1- When JC and Sis are in mourning they leave everything so WWX. except he just got whipped and it would've taken him a month to heal. Soooo (1/2)

(2/2) yeah WWX in also in excruciating physical pain on top of emotional and mental and nobody notices or remembers that his back is shredded.

Oh man okay, so. On the one hand, you are not wrong. On the other hand...

I’ve said this before, but something I like about this show is the approach it takes to letting everything go to shit, in that it’s often not any specific person’s fault so much as it is a whole bunch of people’s virtues and flaws and insecurities and intentions good or ill all snagging against each other.

Because my own interpretive lens tends to be biased towards... looking from every character’s perspective and optimising for maximum pain to maximum number of characters (dark ethics, show me the forbidden utilitarianism) rather than assigning blame to any specific one.

So, with that lens in place, my take on this (and yours may be different!):

On no one noticing/remembering Wei Wuxian being in pain

I’m always here for the ‘how are you even standing’ trope and it may not be outright stated in the episode but Wei Wuxian has been whipped by magical lightning to the extent that it’s a believable claim to make that he won’t be able to walk for weeks. (Whether Yu Ziyuan exaggerates in an attempt to convince Wang Lingjiao to leave them alone is... a topic for another time, but either way it’s a pretty sure bet Wei Wuxian’s in agony).

Thing is (and this, too, is its own kind of devastating), Wei Wuxian is not unaccustomed to ignoring, downplaying, and enduring extreme pain. And he has effectively conditioned everyone around him to go along with it. Maybe they don’t always completely believe him, but he’s just so good at drawing everyone into his pretense with him that I don’t think they always see the degree to which he’s hurting (or at least they know it’s futile to push it).

I also think it’s not unlikely that he’s experienced this specific pain before (and, if so, likely has practice in pushing through this exact experience, so that his siblings won’t worry, won’t feel guilty, won’t have to choose between him and their mother. Which would only hurt them if they knew, and really any way you spin it that family is a mess on so many levels, ow).

Also, not insignificantly, adrenaline is one hell of a painkiller, while it lasts.

So he’s able to take pain that should have anyone else on their knees and just... put it aside, ignore it, push through it without a word.

Enough so that Jiang Yanli (who wasn’t there and therefore actually doesn’t know what has happened) doesn’t realise. Enough so that Jiang Cheng (who was there, but is, I think, practised at not seeing or not thinking about certain things--another topic for another time, but Jiang Cheng has been hurt and shaped by this family just as much as Wei Wuxian has, though in different ways) doesn’t question Wei Wuxian standing up with a makeshift oar to try to bring them all back to their family.

It’s as if we’re seeing the damage of all three of them, with respect to the particular dysfunction of their family, playing out here. Wei Wuxian masking pain in order to protect (prioritise) his siblings. Jiang Cheng seeing the image he is presented, rather than dealing with the truth he fears. Jiang Yanli being set aside, shielded (overlooked). This feels like a pattern that has played out before, all of them playing their roles. Which, you know, hurts.

On everything being ‘left’ to Wei Wuxian

On paper, that is pretty much what happens. But I tend to read this as... all three siblings’ established characterisation, their existing dynamic, and the ways in which different people respond to crisis, panic, and grief.

Firstly, this is what Wei Wuxian does. He sacrifices himself at every opportunity to protect those around him (especially but by no means exclusively his siblings).

That’s even more true now, with the last words of both his adoptive parents in his ears (‘protect them’), the reminder of what he has written into the very fabric of himself: that he owes them, that they are more important, that his only value is in his capability, and even that has value only when used to help others. That he is nothing and they are everything, and so the only acceptable option is to sacrifice himself in whatever way is necessary.

Which, you know, hurts. And we can put no small portion of the blame for that on his upbringing, and on the cultivation world as a whole for the way it regards reputation and bloodline and family and obligation and role.

But here’s the thing: there’s plenty of emotional damage to go around! Because Wei Wuxian does this, each time, unasked and unasking. He just... steps up quietly, ignores his own pain, and does what he feels is necessary--regardless of whether those he is doing this for would want that from him.

(I’m not going to argue the ethics of that one way or the other because that’s not really my point here; my point is more just that he makes that choice unilaterally, and it hurts for all of them. Wei Wuxian because he has so deeply internalised the thought that he has to do this, and his siblings because they probably don’t want to see him hurt).

Finally, there’s the whole issue of how people cope in a crisis. No one in this scene is operating at 100% rational capacity. They’re shocked and hurt and grieving and terrified, and that combination makes for a kind of... not always tunnel vision, exactly, but snap decisions and narrowed focus and a kind of brutal triage: if it’s not immediately relevant and vital, it doesn’t register. So, the ability to think about what you say before you let the words out, the ability to hold back the urge to cry or lash out, the ability to look past yourself and register the suppressed signs of pain in your sibling--all of these are pretty much offline for the time being.

For Jiang Cheng, that manifests first as a frantic need to get back to his family; that takes priority, consumes him, in this state of panic and fear and the world crumbling around him, over anything and everything else. Later, that turns to anger because again he’s just not in a headspace to be able to process it further than that, to hold any of that back.

For Jiang Yanli, it manifests as sadness, as grief, as reaching out to her brothers and trying to hold them close, but also as a fear of confrontation, of doing anything that could make this worse. Where Jiang Cheng’s desperation is get to my family, hers is keep my family together.

Meanwhile Wei Wuxian defaults to his base state of There Must Be A Way Self-Sacrifice Can Solve This Problem. It’s... a heartbreaking kind of altruism, but in its way just as irrational and panic-driven as his siblings’ responses. This is what he does, so he throws himself into it without considering any other option, because he’s not in a place where he can. His desperation is that ingrained protect my family above myself.

(Also, he’s very much a ‘throw yourself into the task at hand in order to keep the trauma at bay’ kind of person, so this is basically his coping mechanism, just as anger is Jiang Cheng’s).

tl;dr: somewhere in there I had a point, and I think it’s basically ‘everyone in this sequence is hurting so much, and they’re all so raw and exposed, and falling into these deeply engrained patterns that hurt all of them and help none of them and yet it’s all they can do, because this is what their world has made them’.

#i just! have a lot! of thoughts and feelings! about this sequence!#how these characters hurt themselves and even those around them #not out of malice or intent but because they're trying #to do what the world demands of them #and so are they to blame?#or is that world?#that demands so much of its children #and repays them in blood and nightmare #the untamed #wei wuxian #jiang cheng #jiang yanli #asks #anon

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kinetic-elaboration · 3 years

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August 21: 3x04 And the Children Shall Lead

Okay, I’m finally going to write up my thoughts on And the Children Shall Lead. I think I’m (mostly) over all of my excessively-strong emotions about this ep lol. Maybe going through my notes will bring them back. Or maybe not. I’ve felt very tired and uninterested in everything today so it’s hard to tell. So far the process is not going well: tumblr ate my first attempt at a post, like literally I wrote a few lines, clicked to a new tab, and when I clicked back the post was empty so thanks for that, and I keep on just generally not being interested in the task. So, we’ll see.

The tl;dr is that I don’t see why this ep is considered one of the worst. I actually really liked it!

Single-color jumpsuits: the fashion of the future.

Another old Kirk friend! (This isn’t even important lol; it never comes up again or matters that Kirk knew this guy, but we must always be reminded that he is the best networker in Starfleet.)

“He’s dead, Captain.” Not “he’s dead, Jim”?? Sounds wrong.

“The enemy within.” I thought that was a S1 ep?

Ah, another bunch of creepy kids. In pajamas this time, apparently.

Kirk is not having fun being the center of their creepy little rhyme.

RIP to McCoy but my diagnosis is “alien shenanigans.”

“I’m sorry, Captain Kirk.” Such a polite little alien.

McCoy corralling the kids

This sounds a lot like Miri, except purposeful—something targeted all the adults but left the kids, just like the virus in Miri affected all the adults, but not the kids.

…A disturbance in the cave!

Lol at Kirk’s anxiety face. I feel you, man.

Spock’s never experienced anxiety? My first thought is ‘sounds fake’ but actually… maybe he really hasn’t.

“There has to be an explanation.” This is the MOST Jim line.

I like these kids. They’re actually pretty cute. Also love Kirk trying to relate to the kids.

Where are they? Is this Sulu’s greenhouse lol? I love it. They should have used this set more.

“That place is for adults.” Gotta say, I wrote this down but now have no recollection what it actually refers to. The bridge? I think it’s the bridge.

Are they performing witchcraft? Intriguing.

“Friendly angel”—nothing creepy about that at all.

Got a little alien cult going on here. Every time I feel anxiety from now on I’m going to assume it’s an alien cultist nearby.

“We’ll pursue this in my quarters.” Wink wink.

Can’t fool Uhura.

Never mind. Yes you can.

For someone who wanted the kids guarded all the time, Kirk sure was ok with them just traipsing around the bridge. I mean the guards are at the door but like…they’re only at the door.

Never really thought about how there’s apparently an…engineering component... to flying the ship? I don’t know, I don’t really get it but it’s cool.

"Evil does seek to maintain power by suppressing the truth." Damn. Great line.

BAND OF MARAUDES. That’s a cool backstory for the dead alien society. Basically, they’re ghosts. Greedy ghosts. Alien ghost pirates.

Great triumvirate scene. McCoy want to protect the kids and Kirk’s like “…but the ship, though?” Which is fair!!

What does the ghost want? Um, a ship to maraud in, were you not listening to Spock’s exposition of the back story?

No don’t beam anyone down!!

Love any time Spock pushes someone else out of the way so he can man the transporter. He’s somehow the second-best expert on it on the entire ship.

Eeek, low-key gruesome death there. Look, I know that this is one of the scenes that haters love to point out as a reason to despise the episode but I personally don’t think deeply enough into the transporter situation to wonder how much information they have or assume before they beam people anywhere. Also…weird alien stuff is happening, guys. Just attribute it to that. Also also, if you’re gonna nitpick like that, be prepared to hate all of TOS.

THE KIDS STOLE THE CAR.

“Sulu, what did you to do my ship?”

Uhura’s watching this little witchcraft scene from the background like ‘aw, so cute.’

“Call upon their beasts.” Metal.

“Go to your stations.” This little kid is a future Captain in the making.

SPACE KNIVES

Kirk's like "Oh no, my crew is deserting me, I'm gonna have to fly the whole ship by myself AGAIN.”

“Captain, why are we bothering Starfleet?” Et tu, Spock?s

How did they get to Spock? He doesn’t seem scared of anything…more like he’s under the influence of a general hallucination, like the others seeing the planet on the screen even after they left orbit.

I remember this part, with Kirk freaking out. Spock doesn’t like it one bit.

He’s just being a littttle Dramatique.

Cannot believe that all Spock has to do is say “Jim” in a quiet, intimate voice and Kirk is immediately okay. Just let it out of his system, grabbed onto his friend, heard his own name, and the beast is defeated.

“My Vulcan friend”? Lol.

Kirk’s face when he realizes they’ve got Scotty too…

“Go away or we’ll kill you.” That was legitimately creepy. Scotty gone rogue.

Aw, Spock was worried about him again.

“Without followers, evil cannot spread.”

“Where did you hear this order, Chekov?” / “The voices in my head.”

It’s interesting that Kirk and Spock can’t be manipulated—perhaps because they have each other?

Enough of this—fight time!

That guard sounded like he really liked that nerve pinch; he was kinda moaning as he went down.

“Spock, corral them to their rooms.”

Outta the chair, brat.

Is Kirk going to defeat the alien evil using logic?

Summoning the “angel” by using the old recording is very clever.

When did they decide to start calling him the Gorgon?

“It lost its power in the light of reality” = “I looked into Spock’s eyes and knew myself again.”

HE IS GENTLE. It’s true and you should say it.

And he doesn’t even dispute it. “AND we are ALSO very strong.”

"You are full of goodness. Such as you cannot be changed."

So the girl is Jankowski.

This is very Candyman. The alien needs their belief to live. When they cease to follow him, he literally disappears.

Honestly, this whole alien scheme starts to look equal parts silly and sad, trying to call the crying children "generals.” They’re babies!

McCoy loves to see children in tears lol.

Kirk just hands them all off to McCoy, like ‘well, my work here is done.’

Okay, now we reverse course to pick up those stranded security guards still on the planet, right? Right? No? Okay, guess not.

Uhura, immediately ready with the paperwork lol. Now IS the time.

The end!

Now to try to interpret all of my other, more general notes.

The way I interpreted Spock being able to defy the mind control was that he was affected by Kirk. Because he clearly was affected, but then when he saw Kirk starting to freak out, he looked concerned, and then got them both off the bridge—he had a breakthrough of clarity long enough to understand he needed to get off the bridge. Then he’d be away from the kids, and they wouldn’t have as much control, and he could snap Jim out of it, too.

Like I’m sure his Vulcan resilience could easily have been part of it, too, but that resilience wasn’t enough to keep him from being affected at all—and of course they could have easily written it that way—and it seems obvious that his moment of clarity was caused specifically by watching Kirk starting to lose it. There are so many shots of him specifically watching Kirk and the guard.

The K/S vibes were so strong. Spock was so protective, then they get in the lift and Kirk basically clings to him. All he has to do is say Kirk’s name and Kirk is fine, which is basically the power of true love. And then even outside of that scene… for the whole rest of the ep, they’re a duo. It’s not just Kirk against the Evil of the Week, it’s Kirk and Spock, working together at every turn. Neither of them could have done it alone.

it's a pretty classic trope, in fact, especially in s1, to have Kirk all alone, abandoned by all...where he's the last man standing, the one who has to run the whole ship and save the whole day. Naked Time, This Side of Paradise, and Trouble with Tribbles (kinda) all come to mind. But this time he has Spock! You see the progression of their relationship in that.

I really enjoyed this episode in general. Lots of classic tropes: creepy children; surprise alien; old alien society not as dead as we thought; Kirk has to run the whole ship by himself (with Spock); heroic!Kirk saving the day… It has it all. It’s clearly revisiting some older themes and ideas, but in a sufficiently unique way that it doesn’t just seem like a rehash of an older plot. In some ways, it felt like a Classic S1 episode to me. It has some Miri elements, some Charlie X elements, some Naked Time elements…

I literally don’t understand why it’s so disliked.

Skimmed the wiki and the only specific criticism in there is that Kirk shows an “unmistakable hostility to the children.” Well first of all, he doesn’t. He might not have the best manner with them, but why should he? He’s certainly not mean or cruel to them. He recognizes they’re a danger to his ship, and to the whole planet of Marcos-12, which by the way is objectively true, but that’s not being hostile. McCoy is the one who represents ‘exclusive care for the children’s welfare’ in this ep, but he CAN do that, because he’s not the Captain. He represents that perspective, he gives his opinion, which is both his job on the ship and his role on the show, and then Kirk takes that into account while doing HIS job, which is running the ship. McCoy would have literally let the kids take over their ship and conquer the galaxy as part of their grieving process lol. Kirk was right and I should say it. (Also btw he understands that killing the kids might be an option—but he obviously doesn’t actually do it.)

I actually think this ep is a great example of the triumvirate functioning--McCoy reminds Kirk that the children are just traumatized children, and Spock reminds him that he's responsible for 400+ people on the ship, and Kirk makes the decisions that vanquish the evil, save the ship, and free the kids.

And look, even if you don’t like this episode, you’d have to argue very hard to convince me it’s the WORST, as in worse than Spock’s Brain, worse than The Alternative Factor, worse than Assignment Earth (not even a real TOS ep!), worse than The Omega Glory.

Some stuff I actively liked: the concept of the alien taking over the children specifically (both creepy and…kinda makes sense? That they’d be vulnerable); the message that the followers of demagogues can be both truly dangerous and objects of sympathy; the backstory of the evil empire of pirate aliens—and how greed doesn’t die; the witchcraft aesthetic, ESPECIALLY when paired with the kid antagonists, since kids are so into that like chanting, incantations, rituals thing; that the ep used every single main character (when was the last time a TOS ep did that?). Also I thought the kid actors did a good job!

The theme about the authoritarian and the cult followers was actually quite resonant, I thought; inevitably made me think of Tr/ump and his Tr/umpies. Just like in this episode, you must have some kind of… if not sympathy, at least willingness to do the hard work of deprograming and then bringing them back to the fold, or else the country is never going to heal and it’s never going to be able to go forward in a positive way. It might not go forward at all! But fuck it’s hard to have that sympathy; they’re so abhorrent. Here, you see the terrible things the kids do, and yet sympathy isn’t so hard, because they’re kids. You see how much they are victims/pawns also. And so in that sense, Kirk’s ability to deprogram them is comfortingly optimistic—a little bittersweet, as TOS often is, because the kids have done horrible things and seen horrible things and now they’ll have to live with it, but comforting nonetheless.

I can’t even think of that many things I didn’t like in the ep. Mostly just nitpicky things. Like, was McCoy a little inconsistent in what he thought should be done with the kids? Yeah, but we get the general idea. Did Kirk drop the ball when he let them hang out on the bridge? Yes, especially as he knew how dangerous they were at that point, but I actually don’t mind it so much because they’re kids—it’s understandable that their true dangerousness didn’t fully compute to him. I don’t see that as a mistake or sloppy writing tbh. And was it an amateur hour mistake to beam two people into space? Yes, but it made up for it in being creepy and upping the stakes of the ep.

I guess I could see how the fist gesture could be seen as a little silly. But the other option, having them speak rhymes each time, would have been distracting—and probably also looked silly! Also, as my mom pointed out, it looks like a kid’s game (sorta like the start of rock paper scissors) so it fits appropriately with the theme.

I really liked how they wove in the aesthetic of kids’ games, kids’ manners of playing, into the narrative. Kids can be really creepy! They like creepy things! So the ring around the rosy rhyme at the beginning—a quite disturbing chant, of course, about the Plague, that is also very commonly sung by actual kids—foreshadows the summoning chant that brings the alien to them. It’s all of a piece. And just like the rhyme is just a rhyme, and they don’t know the real meaning behind it, they probably also don’t fully understand the meaning of the summoning chant or the alien that comes with it. It’s all one big game to them.

It’s interesting that the alien seemed to play off their desire both to punish their parents for working too much ("they like the planet, they're always busy") and to have freedom from parental rules (how they react to any instructions from adults, the alien's promise that the whole universe will be their playground, etc.). He really picks their sore spots as kids specifically and turns them into his “generals” accordingly. Like all kids, they don’t think too much about the larger consequences of their game because in some ways, it really is all just a game to them.

I liked how the episode characterized Kirk’s ability to interact with kids. He’s not bad with them at all, but he’s not like McCoy or Chapel either. He “wants to communicate with the future adult in the kid,” as my mom put it, which is perfect. He doesn’t exactly treat them as mini-adults—he doesn’t say inappropriate things to them, and he does simplify his language and his ideas for them—but he does treat them very seriously. And he’s probably best at one-on-one interactions like with Tommy. I think this makes total sense for his character: he doesn’t have kids (David aside lol), he doesn’t have younger siblings, he doesn’t work in a place where he’d see other people’s kids, he doesn’t get to see his nephew much, etc.

…Okay those were all my notes. I know I had other thoughts that were a little less scattered later, but… I’m tired. And most of it is probably in here in some form or another. I also found a list of, like, actual critiques of the episode, and I was considering going through them and addressing them all, and I might still do that. But I think that’s for another day.

#the year 2021 #2021: star trek #2021: fandom thoughts #star trek tos

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whentheynameyoujoy · 3 years

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Women in SPN—Is it Really That Bad?

TL;DR: Somewhat, yeah, it kinda is.

This is going to be a series of long ones, people.

Before I jump head first into this giant vat of weird toxic shit, let me say something:

The thing about most of the female characters is that on their own? They’re perfectly fine, ranging from serviceable to the occasional flash of thematic brilliance. Barely any of them qualify as “this is hateful on its face and incompetent regardless of context and the writers should feel bad for ever conceiving of it”, i.e. the normie benchmark for justified criticism. It’s only when you put these characters next to each other that a worrying pattern emerges;

Although discussions about sexism in the media were very much a thing in the mid-2000s, as well as shows with characters whose primary role wasn’t to serve a man’s needs, I can’t honestly claim that the flaws of SPN are out of the norm for its time; and

The first few seasons could really do with a PSA at the start of each episode, something along the lines of “A part of the reason why female characters are killed off or written out with such regularity is rabid superfans who couldn’t abide anything with tits brushing against J2, srsly, the writing team and the 2000s’ fan base were a match made in hell, except it wasn’t the writers who couldn’t do with bitching on their LiveJournals about the gall of women to exist in the show, choosing instead to harass the creators and actresses and wives and call them every sexist insult under the sun AND I MEAN WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE HAS THERE EVER BEEN A CESSPIT AS DISGUSTING AND NUKEWORTHY AS THE SPN FANDO—“

Anyway.

SPN has a legacy (as a posterchild for not knowing when to bow out gracefully, but legacy nonetheless) and isn’t watched in 2005 but in the year of our Lord Today. Meaning that as time goes by, the issues surrounding the show’s production retreat into the background and only what’s on the screen remains, to be judged on its own merits.

So let’s run down a list of the more noteworthy and relevant female characters of the first arc, focusing on their characterization, role in the narrative, and end. In the conclusion to this series of posts, the sum of characters will be analyzed as a whole to see if there are any unique tendencies in the show’s handling of women as opposed to that of men. I’ll do this for the original five seasons as the recent finale went out of its way to say that nothing after season 5 was strictly speaking necessary so why bother.

(Also because I died of frustration in season 8 and vowed not to subject myself to any more of the post-apocalypse fanfic era)

Angels, while strictly speaking genderless clouds of energy, will be classified as men or women depending on the apparent gender of the vessel they spend most of the time riding. The same goes for demons where I also take into account their stated gender while they were alive. That’s because although beings like Meg, Ruby, Anna, or Lilith can’t technically be considered women in the show’s present day, their consistent preference for conventionally attractive and/or female vessels throughout the original arc makes claims of genderlessness essentially meaningless. For all intents and purposes, we’re watching girls and women on screen.

Baby—the only true NB of the first run

All right, time to jump.

Say hi to our ladies!

Mary Winchester

Killed in the very first scene to give the story a reason to exist, she remains an active presence throughout the first arc where she has a wide-reaching influence on the plot and characters, driving the conflict on several levels. Fleshed-out more and more with each appearance to be more than just “the dead mom”, she’s portrayed as protective, pro-active, capable, and assertive, mirroring the duo’s desire for normal life and their inability to have it. Her story comes full-circle in season 5 when the personal tragedy of her fate is embedded in the wider tragedy of the Winchester family curse and the overall theme of destiny.

Status: Dead as of s5

Importance: Major

On her own: Textbook example of fridging… and that tropes aren’t bad in and of themselves.

Jessica Moore

Comparatively, if anyone doubts fridging can evolve into something meaningful, Jess drives the point home by having no personality and no point but to prop up her boyfriend before she ends up pinned to the ceiling, the reveal of which is the most interesting thing about her entire existence. At best she’s a symbol of Sam’s civilian life, at worst an obstacle to be removed for the story to happen.

Status: Dead as of s5

Importance: Major in terms of manpain, non-existent otherwise

On her own: A cardboard cut-out, barely qualifies as a character

Missouri Moseley

A psychic and the primary reason why John Winchester even knows to wipe his ass. Appears once over the course of the first arc yet everyone wants her to come back years later—that’s how awesome she is. Has this fantastic trait of being compassionate and empathetic while not taking a single speck of shit from anyone, especially when it comes from the two main dumbos who might just as well have been raised in a barn. Is very particular about the pristine state of her coffee table.

Status: Alive as of s5, killed in s13 (wait, what?)

Importance: Major…ly wasted potential

On her own: As strong a character as Bobby Singer, and as worthy of being elevated to the main cast.

Lori Sorensen

The writers can’t figure out why anyone in the universe would care about Jess either so they insert an intentionally awkward romance subplot to convince people the time’s not yet ripe for Sam to stop grieving and start slaying. The result’s… erm… well, awkward. Lori’s naïve, sheltered, devout though accepting of her non-repressed friend, and sort of on a religious crossroads because of her hypocritical preacher father. I guess the virginal power of her virginal virginity does… something in the plot? Primarily a vehicle for Sam to mark the stages of his moving on.

Status: Alive as of s5

Importance: Minor

On her own: A bit done. Like a bit lot. Like a “could be a trope namer” bit lot.

Meg

Boom, baby!

Arguably the chief antagonist of season 1 and one of the best things about it. The first one to point out the pervasive toxicity of the Winchester family business, so props for perceptiveness. Possesses the standard qualities of a lower-level henchman—manipulative, no-nonsense, and quietly sinister which, while not exactly groundbreaking, sets her apart from the other bad guys in the season as they tend to have no distinguishing characteristics at all. Plus Nicki Aycox makes the role seem more unique and “lived-in” by projecting a sense of understated amusement at the two main chucklefucks. Is one of S1’s turning points in blurring the lines between monsters and humanity. Has a face transplant twice—once to have revenge (good on her) and the other time to pursue someone else’s goals again before getting stomped into the ground like a mook.

Status: Alive as of s5 (?), killed in s8

Importance: Major

On her own: The actresses do most of the heavy lifting. Which doesn’t mean I don’t love watching the character burst onto the scene and announcing the end of the Winchester brand of bullshit.

Layla Rourke

A terminal cancer patient in a religious cult, she’s a more mature take on a Lori-type character and the themes of faith and doubt. Serves as a conduit for Dean’s budding survivor guilt, self-loathing, and sense of worthlessness. Is kind and cheerful, with strong hints that she’s relying on forced optimism to get through the days; also understanding of the circumstances of others while realistically freaked about the possibility of death. Weirdly, she enters the episode already in a state of acceptance and leaves it just as accepting when it’s confirmed that yeah, she’ll die soon. All expressions of anger at the injustice and senselessness are left to her mother which somewhat undermines the “struggling” portion of Layla’s character and renders the final scene where she makes peace with her fate a bit hollow.

Status: Implied dead

Importance: Minor in the overall narrative, major in the episode and Dean’s development

On her own: I want to like her, I really do, just… if only she were allowed to get pissed, once.

Cassie Robinson

Dean’s ex and that’s pretty much all there is to her. I struggle to pinpoint a single personality trait of hers—the 2000s idea of a “strong woman” and “not like other girls”, perhaps? Undermined as a love interest because TPTB don’t show the happy or any parts of her relationship with Dean so really, why should anyone care if two sniping assholes with little to no chemistry get back together? Memorable for being in a horribly scored softcore scene which YouTube tries to convince me lasts for shy over a minute, not the week I remember it to. Involved in the show’s first and last attempt at incorporating the issue of anti-black racism.

Status: Alive as of s5

Importance: Minor

On her own: She’s in the racist truck episode. ‘Nuff said.

Sarah Blake

A sophisticated people-person conversationalist with a love of high art and a deep sense of introspection. Ascends to the state of godhood by being able to pull off pigtails while adult. Bonds with Sam over responding to loss by crawling into a shell but deciding to move on. Doesn’t care for your fancy schmancy fine dining, Romeo. Isn’t ashamed to openly talk feelings which includes her explicitly asking Sam if they have a thing going on (honestly, this is such a breath of fresh air for a normcore romance). Despite being scared out of her wits, she refuses to be shoved into the helpless civilian box after learning about the existence of the supernatural; Dean creates a Pinterest wedding board in response.

Status: Alive as of s5, pointlessly dragged back to be murdered in s8

Importance: Minor in the overall narrative, major in the episode and Sam’s development

On her own: A great love interest that has enough writing behind her to fool you into thinking she’s something more.

Up next, whenever I feel like it, seasons 2 and 3!

#spn #spn critical #supernatural #supernatural critical #sexist writing #mary winchester #missouri moseley #meg masters #sarah blake #layla rourke

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paintedrecs · 4 years

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As someone who has joined the "Gargoyles" fandom in recent times, I suppose that it is time for someone to ask what your opinion is about the third season of the cartoon? We would love to hear your thoughts.

The third season is widely considered non-canonical, and I can definitely see why. Pretty much everyone is either OOC or turned into a caricature of themselves. Fox is the most glaring example: in season 3, she panics, whines, sobs while clinging to a stuffed bear, and in general is completely useless while her son is getting kidnapped.

This from a woman who FACED DOWN OBERON and unleashed enough rage-fueled power to knock him flying and massively impress a gleeful Puck. Fox is married to Xanatos because she is one of the very very few people in the world who can go toe-to-toe with him and consistently win, and they impress the hell out of each other. She’s not someone who would call him, crying and hopeless, to get him to Solve Her Problems In A Very Strong Manly Way while she stays at home, weeping softly.

It is a very strange choice that reveals a lot of what’s wrong with the season as a whole. Season 3 was created by a whole new crop of people who I don’t think really understood the characters, or much about the first two seasons, and it shows.

Do I hate Season 3? No. I’m glad I was able to watch it on D+, and I’m a little bummed that I can’t obtain it on DVD, because while most of it isn’t really something I’d rewatch, I do still enjoy little moments.

Like: David Xanatos in an open-necked bathrobe in his office late at night for no particular reason. Or: the entire Xanatos family (Xanatos, Fox, Alex, and Owen) gathered together, casually being a family. I love the image of all of them together in Xanatos’s office, trading off baby duties and generally working seamlessly as a unit. I love that Xanatos and Fox took rescued-baby-Alex to the hospital to check on Owen as soon as he woke up. I wanted to see so much more of that.

Mostly I dislike Season 3 for the what-could-have-beens. It’s not a Teen Wolf Season 3B+ or VLD Season 8; nothing about the last season of Gargoyles ruins the show or the characters for me, but there are so many missed opportunities for more incredible storytelling and character arcs, and it’s a bummer we didn’t get to see those.

For instance: while my Gargoyles fics loosely include the kidnapping episode as canon, because I wanted that image of all of them together in Owen’s hospital room, the original idea for the kidnapping episode was SO MUCH MORE INTERESTING. And too complicated and clever for the new writing team to handle, I think. What I would give to see more of Puck in action, engaged in battles of wits with other tricksters, protecting and training his new human-fae child...

In particular, I don’t think the new folks had ANY IDEA WHATSOEVER what to do with Owen once the Puck Reveal happened. He’s so overpowered now that they had to literally knock him unconscious for an entire episode in order for the rest of their (kinda lame) plot to work. It’s stupid, though, because those stories would be way more fascinating, and Owen has always been Puck - even way back in Season 1 when that hadn’t been decided yet, Owen was always meant to be Something Special, an extraordinarily capable right-hand man who didn’t fit any of the typical tropes. Who wasn’t a hero but wasn’t entirely a villain, either. Just like Xanatos.

And that’s what Season 3′s writers couldn’t handle: the nuances of these characters. Xanatos is a shadow of himself, too; his world suddenly revolves around the gargoyles, just like Goliath has always (wrongly!) thought. He mostly exists now to help them out of jams, which...is not what he meant by his gratitude at the end of The Gathering. Xanatos and the gargoyles have a truce now, yes, because Alex means everything to him, and he’s grateful for Goliath’s part in helping the Xanatos family to stay together.

That doesn’t mean that Xanatos would suddenly stop being himself. His role as the gargoyles’ home base makes him dull in a way that strips away so much of what makes him absolutely fascinating and memorable. It makes him less of the man Puck traded Avalon and eternity to be with.

Even Goliath got done pretty dirty in Season 3. While I’ll admit he’s not my favorite character (he’s so Heroic that it tends to bore me), he does have more layers and demonstrated a lot more personal growth than this season allows him to show. His voiceover intros to the episodes are SO BAD. So bad.

Season 3 is like...a Puck-spun version of the show, where he’s just making fun of Goliath the entire time by making him constantly stop mid-flight to give long moralistic speeches. Except it’s too lazy for Puck, because anyone who knows any of the humans or gargoyles or fae involved would recognize in an instant that it wasn’t their real world and that they were only interacting with shadows.

tl;dr version: I think Season 3 is worth watching once, but it’s largely OOC, clumsily written, and occasionally boring. It’s very easy to pick out the tiny bits you like, ignore the rest, and spin your own stories.

And hey. If an entire season was produced and aired and is roundly rejected as bad fanfiction, then what’s to stop us from making good fanfiction that’s closer to being canon than the actual show.

#gargoyles #gargoyles meta #david xanatos #owen burnett #puck #gargoyles season 3 #asks answered

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futurewife · 3 years

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henlo! do you have any aus w/ cable?? which is your favorite? :o0c - clowned-prince-selfship

tl;dr It’s 2068. I am Cable’s sweet gentle loving android wife. inspired heavily by blade runner

Hello @clowned-prince-selfship ! I’m glad you asked! I do have one specific AU scenario I like to imagine- that’s a kind of post apocalyptic cyberpunk dystopia i.e. Cable/the world’s future. A real kind of Blade Runner-y mood. Like every one of those instrumental compliations on youtube that are like DARK CYBERPUNK SYNTHWAVE BLADE RUNNER ATMOSPHERE but visually. In this AU I would be an android or an artificial intelligence of some kind- big JOI from blade runner 2049 vibes. So not really a real flesh and blood human with feelings...UNLESS?? (this will b the big soppy reveal where I develop emotions for real because i am IN LOVE with cable)

Also with this android concept I’m thinking that it’s my (my s/i’s??) real human conciousness that’s been put into this robotic body for some reason, maybe similar to how baby Cable is sent to the future in the first place after getting infected with the techno-organic virus. Like it’s a part of the plot that my present physical body cannot be saved and the only hope is keeping my conciousness alive- digitally- by having Cable safekeep it and taking it to the future with him. There’d be a whole angsty thing where it’s me...like my soul kinda but it’s not in my body. This could be used to mirror Cable’s whole man vs. machine thing, like, what makes us human or something. he’s like a man with machine parts and my robot body is like a machine with a human soul?? so...mirroring themes.

But we have very self indulgent cyberpunk landscapes and neon lighting and all in my cinematic mind. And a synth industrial soundtrack. excited to be cable’s little sweet android wife that may have more than a TOUCH of “born sexy yesterday” trope. idk it’s cute to think about Cable taking my panels off and performing maintence on me and tinkering with my parts and plugging me into power sources and stuff. Being all gentle and concerned about his robot gf :’) like maybe he’s super lonely in the future and suddenly has a pwetty robot to keep him company + protect + wants her to be happy.

this drawing I did is actually set in this AU and it’s meant to be like bottom left in the moodboard. cable marrying his android gf, nature is healing <3 but the idea was that we’d get married in some abandoned dilapidated building somewhere and the cinematography... we’d have beams of yellow afternoon natural light and DUST motes baby, and lots of lush plant growth and greenery and maybe some little bird tweets! id be like ok guys deliberatly contrast the mise en scene with the usual dingy concrete cyberpunk cityscape thing. no dress. no cake. but we found some wildflowers to pick and a beat up scratchy record to play and most of all we have each other. *bursts into tears*

omg btw it says N + E in the little frame bc I used to give my s/i and alternate name... I was like HOLD UP WHO IS E??? oh wait.... everyone imagine that says N + V lol

ALSO this ties into the whole cable's wife in dp2 thing. Like that was me also. Both past and present it's just a destiny loop thing. AND we can still adopt Hope as she's not Cable's biological kid anyways. A family can be 2 mutants and one android mom!

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deathonyourtongue · 4 years

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The ways you have created your version of Captain Syverson is impeccable. He has a loving home and family with good friends and he isn't a crazed sex machine looking for someone to warm his bed. He is gentle and kind with a loving heart and desire to be the rock for those who are drowning. Captain Kyle Syverson the rancher is a variation of the character that is a nice change of pace to read.

I’ve been having a rough go these last couple of days, hence the relative radio silence on here, but to log in this morning and see such kind and thoughtful words has made things that much better. Thank you so much. 💜💜💜

As many of you may or may not know, this story as a whole is based on a 7-8 year old RP that I had the idea for back then. While a lot of what you read for Syverson was already on the page, I did tweak a lot of it to fall more in line with what little we saw of him on screen. Though there isn’t a whole lot to go on in the movie, what we do have is pretty informative and telling of the kind of man I’d imagine Sy to be whether he’s behind the wire, or back home.

He’s patient as is demonstrated in the two scenes with Nicholas Hoult’s character. The one where Sy explains why Aika is green and the scene where he allows Hoult’s character to explain his plan for getting the villagers to cooperate could have both been played very differently tonally, but instead we get a man who’s willing to teach and to listen in turn.

Syverson’s also very considerate of others; he didn’t have to paint Aika green, but does so to protect her. After the last explosion of the movie, he doesn’t even look at his own extremities for damage, but instead checks on Hoult’s character first and foremost.

For a movie like this, they could have easily made him a sex-starved pig and it would have still ‘worked’. They could have fallen into that classic, alpha-male, military trope (watch Generation Kill if you don’t know what I mean) by putting pinups on his wall, having him make sex jokes, etc. but instead, we get a man who likes playing cards, loves his dog, and cares about his team’s well-being. Syverson came off as a level-headed and attentive leader, which I think would be that same behind the wire, as it is at home.

I’m still floored by the response I’ve been getting on this fic, and it makes me so happy to know that you guys are loving it. Makes writing it that much more enjoyable, knowing people are anxiously waiting for the next chapter.

Thank you again. Here’s a gif for all that tl;dr ;)

#henry cavill #captain syverson #willow run

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sam-roulette · 3 years

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your personalityswap is kind of brilliant ?? i went into it thinking it'd just be straight crack, but the amount of care and nuance put into everything really blew me away. how exactly did y'all come up with whose personalities swapped with whose?

thank you anon !!! It takes us a little longer to get chapters of the personalityswap fic together than the other aus, but its always a Lot Of Fun!!

As for how we ended up coming to this, the short answer is that in April 2020 one of the Sams said he was surprised he hadn’t seen a personalityswap tma fic yet and that Leitners are basically a fanfic trope magnet, specifically Spiral Leitners for crackfics. Said Sam gave the first swap with the words “give Martin Elias’s personality and let the chaos ensue” and then Not-Sam responded with “Elias is gonna have a Time after suddenly growing a Tim-sized conscience” and the rest is history!

The long answer is under the cut but tl;dr : we built the au off of the concept of unleashing two “stable” personality swaps (Jon with Martin’s personality and Tim with Jon’s personality) and two “unstable” swaps (Elias with Tim’s personality and Martin with Elias’s personality), and going from there.

So why are the former two swaps stable and sustainable while the latter two are set to implode on themselves? To really explain, you’ve gotta get into the fact that in all honesty, lived experience shapes much of your personality, and some personalities are more conducive to some backstories than others.

Jon!Tim: Since he’s possibly the most stable out of all the swaps, let’s start with this little quiz.

A man’s first brush with the supernatural ends with them frozen in fear, watching helplessly as someone else is killed in their place by forces far beyond their control. Said man feels immense guilt over not having been able to do something about it, and that guilt translates into a terrible need for answers. Said man ends up working for the Magnus Institute research department, wherein they meet others who share their immensely intensive research ethic. Said man is transferred to the Archives later on, and from there, his life becomes an unending series of tragedies which lead him to facing down the very Entity that ruined his life and the lives of all those he loved in his eleventh hour.

Am I talking about Tim or Jon?

Trick question. I’m talking about both. Which is why Tim having Jon’s personality is possibly the most stable swap of the batch. Their backstories are already so similar that a lot of the core basis of what makes Tim himself- the base lived experience, the memories which will always stick around regardless of the rest of the personality- doesn’t necessarily reject Jon’s stuffiness or drive to find answers, even at the cost of all his relationships. ESPECIALLY since this is Tim in season 3, leaving him at his most isolated, his most angry, and his most driven to find the Circus.

His circumstances in s3 are remarkably similar to Jon’s in s2, with the added “bonus” that no one’s trying to really reach out to him- no one but Jon, that is. Jon, who before this moment has given Tim the least amount of reason why he should be trusted, after s2′s paranoid breakdown. This brings us to

Martin!Jon: He’s adorable! He’s a bit of a mess! But he’s trying his best to reach out to everyone, especially since he knows how horribly he’s cocked everything up last season.

The thing about Jon and Martin’s personalities is that they both are actually pretty similar in a lot of ways, even back in s3- both can have their moments of pure stubbornness and can get a bit mean, but ultimately they are both people who are trying to be good. s3 Jon is already a Jon that, to start with, wants to trust people- he wants to make the active choice to trust the people around him, even when his every instinct is screaming to buckle down and back away. It’s that lived experience that gels neatly into Martin’s desire to actively be kind to people, even when he doesn’t feel that it is inherent to himself.

And, the fact of the matter is, Jon’s backstory isn’t at all incompatible with Martin’s personality- it’s just that, to nail the nuance of the swap, we have to think about Martin!Jon as having not just canon-Martin’s personality. We have to think about it in terms of, what would Martin’s personality look like if Martin had grown up in Jon’s familial situation instead? If Martin had been allowed to finish high school and go to uni and, even if he felt his mum resented him, had a mum that still tried to care for him?

So Martin!Jon is even a little softer than Martin himself, a little more in tune with the people around him. There’s times where he’s more confident, where he can speak up and make it known that he’s still got some useful skills, and where he also doesn’t mind showing moments of vulnerability. Sure his default mode is still to bottle up the Really Bad emotions, but in his day to day? this is a Jon who’s more expressive than both the Original Jon and Original Martin

Which of course brings us to one of the more unstable elements in this fic

Elias!Martin: This guy. This motherfucker. At first the swap seems a benefit.

He’s now more confident! He’s more ambitious! He’s ready to organize, to strategize, to work together with others to reach his goals! He’s no longer taking anyone’s shit, even when it’s joking, and he’s able to enact mind games with Elias Bouchard himself.

But, under the surface, there’s a contradiction.

The contradiction is evident in this simple fact: Elias Bouchard, Jonah Magnus, has the personality of an obscenely rich Victorian who gets everything he wants no matter what. Martin Blackwood almost never gets what he wants.

Martin’s backstory is wholly incongruent with Elias’s personality. Martin has spent his entire life giving away almost everything that makes him happy. He gives up school and his childhood for his mother to try and fulfill his duty as a son, trying to sympathize with her and believe that she might yet love him. He gives up his sense of self-worth, deciding that living as an impostor for the rest of his life is a risk he needs to take to survive. He gives up his heart to Jon while believing that he’ll never have it in return.

Elias’s personality, on the other hand, is a personality that is tailor-made to take and take until nothing else is left. It’s something that clashes with the core of Martin’s character, and that clash is going to continue the longer the personality sets in, as Martin desperately holds onto his core desires.

Even if it means he has to think about it as if he’s merely protecting what’s rightfully his with Elias’s personality in his head, the end result is the same- he wants to protect everyone in the Archives. Even if that means he takes from the rest of the world, even if it means he himself is slowly worn thin, it doesn’t matter.

Even now, he just needs them to be safe, and he just needs to survive.

#tma #ias #in another's shoes #personalityswap #i guess this also counts as meta? whoops jvhbkj lol

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kaptainandy · 4 years

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My Complete In-depth TLOU 2 Thoughts:

Yeah I know, y’all have already read through countless reviews and thoughts, but I gotta get my thoughts out there. So, continue under the cut for some somewhat coherent, essay-ish style ramblings. There will be a TL;DR at the end because this is going to be long. (Spoilers ahead).

Okay so my overall perception of this game is that it’s average and I’m slightly disappointed. I’m going to start with the things I really liked and enjoyed before I get into what I didn’t like.

The visuals and gameplay were solid and enjoyable with small improvements upon the first game’s already fun and interesting, gameplay. The NPCs felt less like they were following a track in terms of their movements and felt more natural. The dialogue between enemies felt more varied than the first game, and the addition of giving everyone a name made me feel more immersed and the reaction from other characters to their fallen friends felt more believable. I feel that overall, the development of gameplay from the first to the second game felt “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it,” and I think it worked out because it’s one of the aspects I liked about the first game. The addition of craftable silencers, varied stealth takedowns, ability to go prone, tall grass to hide in, cars to hide under, larger infected (bloaters and shamblers) now being able to destroy weak walls, etc. were fun editions that helped the combat feel less repetitive. And lastly, the areas of combat that included both human enemies and infected, (and later WLF soldiers vs Seraphite soldiers) was really cool and felt more realistic for the world of the Last of Us. It was something I think the first game lacked and it was really interesting to choose who to take down first and let the enemies fight each other.

The level design was also great. I felt it gave the player a lot of options of how they wanted to traverse the area to takedown enemies and look for supplies. Everything felt huge and worth exploring. The player was rewarded appropriately for checking every nook and cranny, and the addition of going prone to fit under small spaces or breaking glass to get into locked buildings was a lot of fun. The first day in Seattle as Ellie was especially enjoyable as you got to explore the city and mark things on your map while engaging in dialogue with Dina. Every building held something new and acted as an opportunity for Dina and Ellie to banter.

The art direction was incredible and I don’t think I’ve seen a more stunning looking game. It felt like a lot of time and care went into the design of each item and every corner of every environment. My favorite environments were definitely the homesteads of the major characters/factions (Jackson, the stadium transformed into a village by the WLF, the Seraphite island, etc.) because it told the player more about what everyday life is like for these characters and how they’re similar and different. Also, the weather, time of day, lighting, and use of space (or lack there of) added tension and changed the tone in scenes and levels appropriately. I felt engaged in each moment. I think the best use of visuals and atmosphere to set tone and really immerse the player was in the lower level of the hospital during the Abby playthrough. It was claustrophobic, damp, dark, ominous, and it always felt like danger and despair were right around the corner. And the massive clicker cluster fight in the small hospital corner was one of my favorite parts in the entire game. What would have felt like a silly and dumb concept if encountered elsewhere, was actually legitimately terrifying and really cool due to the tone set from the scene. Seeing the effects of a ground zero site for infection 25 years later was really cool to see.

The music? A masterpiece. We have to stan Gustavo Santaolalla. What more can I say? He did a great job. If nothing else, give the soundtrack a listen.

The acting was incredible, as to be expected. The emotional moments were really sold and carried by the actors and the music together. Ashley Johnson, Troy Baker, Shannon Woodward, and Laura Bailey I expected to be phenomenal and they were, but I’d like to give a shoutout to the newcomers and more minor actors as well. I felt no one had a bad performance, or even an average one. Every performance felt genuine and made me more connected to the characters.

As for new characters, I felt Yara and Lev were the ones I felt the most for and were the best written. The inclusion of Lev being trans was really cool to see as a trans person, and I felt it was executed well within the story. Lev being exiled from the Seraphites for questioning their ways and attempting to transition while Yara fought to remain by his side and protect him, made them both interesting and likable characters. They had depth to their characters. Despite coming from an environment that seemed ruthless and unforgiving they both acted as voice of reasons and wanted to help others, which was their strength and their weakness in the end, adding to their complexity.

The story had it’s moments. I found myself being impacted more during light and happy moments more so than the traumatic and sad ones. I felt a lot of time was put into showing the love and care between Ellie and Dina, and I found myself smiling like a goober when they were being goofy or together or cuddling. This also ties into the LGBTQ representation, which I personally thought was well done as I briefly touched on with Lev. I understand and respect those who felt there was too much trauma forced upon the LGBTQ characters, and I agree with that when it comes to Ellie because the whole game was essentially torturing her. I’ll at least give Naughty Dog credit for avoiding the “bury your gays” trope when they very easily could’ve done that given the constant death in the world of the Last of Us. Treatment aside, as a gay trans man, the overall presentation of these characters I felt was realistic, respectful, and gave me hope for future LGBTQ representation in triple A titles. I know this is literally doing the bare minimum but we gotta start somewhere.

Now, as for things I disliked about the game, there was a lot and I felt the weight of things I disliked outweighed those that I like since the overall experience depended on them more heavily.

I’ll start with the small things that irked me, that could be somewhat excused and are more a personal preference. For starters, I felt the game was too long. After awhile it got repetitive and having nearly the entire game take place in one city (as opposed to the first game that took place across the country), the scenery got old pretty quickly. I feel like a lot of the traveling could have been cut. For example, instead of showing a cut scene where characters say “we have to get to x” and having to basically travel the entire way, it would’ve worked better had it cut to them being at or close to their destination, thus cutting back on repetitive combat. It didn’t feel super rewarding and it only sometimes resulted in something added to the story. In the end, I felt it should be exempt for a similar reason you don’t need to show a character’s entire traveling in a movie, it’s just unnecessary.

Another minor detail that bothered me was the shamblers. Not as a concept, because I thought they were really fun new enemies and added something to combat, but the fact that they felt thrown in with no explanation. Where did they come from? Are they only in the northeast of the US? What caused them? It’s mentioned briefly by one character (I forget who) that it could be a result of excessive rain, but it was just a guess and not further elaborated on.

The fact that events and characters of the first game that were influential to Ellie and Joel’s character seemed to be inappropriately forgotten about. I understand the game is meant to be enjoyed by people who haven’t played the first game as well as fans of the first one, but it could still be done in a way to cater to both audiences. It would also help people who didn’t play the first one learn and connect more to Ellie and Joel. Why was there no Riley-related dialogue for Ellie upon seeing “The Turning” arcade machine? Hell, Riley was never mentioned at all. Same with Tess. Bill was briefly mentioned, but not by name. Ellie’s mom still remained a mystery, and I don’t recall her being mentioned. Henry and Sam? Also never mentioned. Upon seeing Sam’s robot toy in Ellie’s room (which I thought was a nice touch) I would’ve thought he might’ve been brought up in discussion with Dina about past friends. I get that it could be implied Ellie has discussed her past with Dina and others before the events of the game took place, but you have an audience to think about. Essentially you have to think that if the audience didn’t see it or hear about it, it didn’t happen. I feel the omission of past characters and events was a disservice to the first game and was really disappointing.

This relates to something else I disliked: It felt like too much time was spent on characters solo traveling and being in combat and not enough on story and relationship building. I felt the time spent traveling alone as Ellie or Abby was far greater than traveling with a companion. The dialogue and interactions between Ellie and Joel in the first game was crucial to the story and relationship, and when the characters were apart, it made the player that more eager for them to be reunited. They were only ever apart when one was missing/injured or they were unintentionally separated and it made sense to the story. In terms of missed opportunity, I especially thought Jesse’s character was mishandled and wasted. Just as the player was really beginning to know his past and connect with him, he dies a seemingly (in my opinion) stupid death. Not only that, but there’s almost no mention of him or his death after it happens, and Ellie and Dina seem relatively unaffected. I felt like Dina’s character also could’ve been fleshed out better. She was one of my favorite characters, but the things we knew about her didn’t seem to impact the story or her character that much, especially the loss she’s suffered. Her thoughts about her sister’s death and Jesse’s death are barely touched on, and I just felt like I was left wanting more.

Jesse and Dina could’ve definitely been handled better, but at least I cared about them. I didn’t have those feelings towards anyone in Abby’s story (except Yara and Lev). This relates to the bigger problem with the timeline of events and the and the order they were shown in the game, but I’ll touch on this in a bit. Before beginning to know these characters, the only thing you know is that they were involved in killing Joel, and happy about doing so. Now the challenge was to get the player to like them, which the writers failed abysmally. I couldn’t even remember half of their names when they were brought back up. The most influential of Abby’s friends, aside from Owen, seems to be Manny and the only things we get to know about him is that he’s horny, likes to get drunk, and - much like the writers - tries to force other characters to like each other (i.e. Mel and Abby). He only exists to establish Mel and Abby’s relationship and to save and help Abby when they encounter Tommy trying to snipe them. Mel and Abby (who I will touch on extensively in her own paragraph because yikes) both seemed like miserable people to be around and their relationship seemed catty and to simply revolve around Owen. I’m kinda sick of having women characters’ relationships revolve around the fact that one of them used to date the guy that the other is now currently dating. It’s stupid and I couldn’t give less of a fuck if that’s the biggest roadblock in their relationship. Also Mel calling Abby a piece of shit seemed unwarranted based on what we knew. Like we knew Mel was against the brutality of Joel’s death, but the way she spoke to and of Abby seemed like there was something else that the writers forgot to tell/show the audience. Abby never did anything personal to Mel (that Mel knew of) yet Mel decides to hate her guts and be unreasonable? Nora was kind of okay and seemed like an actual decent person (aside from wanting Joel dead and them making that shitty comment to Ellie) in her relationship with Abby. She was willing to risk getting in trouble to help Abby, but we weren’t given enough time with her to make me give a shit, especially after what she said to Ellie. Owen had potential to be likable; he was charming, funny, a bit of a fuckboy, but nonetheless was optimistic and hopeful. But for some reason the writers decided to throw out any ounce of care we had for him by having him cheat on Mel with Abby in a shitty sex scene.

Now for my thoughts on Abby. My thoughts about her also relate to my thoughts on the order of events, and a few other aspects I haven’t mentioned yet, so forgive me if my thoughts are a bit all over the place. I really really tried to sympathize and like Abby, but holy shit they fucked up every possible opportunity to create some sort of likability. For starters, it boggles my mind that they had her commit the atrocity that was Joel’s death as basically the introduction to her character. Not only that, but just mere minutes beforehand Joel had saved her life and shown her nothing but kindness and she goes on to torture him and continue to do so while his surrogate daughter begs and screams for her to stop. She shows no guilt both in the moment or afterwards. It doesn’t eat her up inside at all. Every time Joel is brought up by Abby and her friends, she wastes no time expressing how elated she is that she not only killed him, but did so in such a gruesome way. You really expect fans to even WANT to like this character after she tortures and kills the only other character (besides Ellie) that fans LOVED. And I’m not upset that Joel died, because I expected he would and there were a million ways it could’ve been done appropriately to both the story and fans. But the way he died and how early he died at the hands of essentially some nobody really rubbed me the wrong way, they essentially threw him away without any honor to the experience we had with him in the first game. So, that’s our introduction to Abby and her friends. Again, the writers had the challenge of trying to make us like her, but it felt like they didn’t even try. Every attempt to make her likable fell flat either due to an action that happened right before or after. Abby’s only expression of sorrow is after the death of her father and Owen. Manny’s death is never mentioned after it happens and she seems to act like it never really happened. There is no remorse when she kills Jesse and Tommy, or anyone for that matter. She and (seemingly most of the WLF) condone and even get off on torturing Seraphites (they’re terrible people but if you’re trying to make me like a character, I don’t think you should have them condone the torturing of anyone). Abby is quick to kill Dina even after learning she’s pregnant, to which she comments, “good” and only stops because Lev is an actual decent human being and gets her to stop. And the writers have the gall to try and compare her to Ellie; trying to be like, “see she and Ellie aren’t so different uwu.” Meanwhile, Ellie is crying each time she hits Nora; she just wants Abby, she didn’t want to have to torture Nora like that. Ellie is traumatized after finding out that Mel is pregnant after killing her. Ellie is constantly shown to be grappling with the consequences and feelings of her actions. She experiences guilt and shame while Abby is shown time and time again to not regret her wrongdoings. The writers really tried to push us to like Abby by having her care for Yara and Lev, but I felt she did it out of selfishness and needing to feel good about herself not because she truly cared for these kids.

Going back to Joel’s death, the gruesomeness wasn’t even warranted based on Abby’s reasoning. Abby’s dad didn’t get murdered in front of her and he was killed because he stood in Joel’s way, holding a scalpel to Ellie. Jerry’s death was quick and painless too. And I know people will be like, “but Abby was also mad because now there’s no cure because of what Joel did!!!” However, she had no problem wanting to kill, or leave Ellie alone despite knowing she was immune. Abby was never on a quest to capture Ellie or talk her into finding the Fireflies with her (which would have made for an interesting storyline actually), she wanted her dead too. Joel’s death was the most tasteless death of a beloved character I think I’ve ever experienced.

Also the order of events was really detrimental to the story and especially Abby’s character. The way that flashbacks were thrown in throughout the story after Joel’s death fell flat and made Joel’s death feel even worse. The Joel and Ellie flashbacks were honestly the highlight of the game because we got to spend time with the only 2 fleshed out and likable characters. Had they been placed at the beginning of the game and also showed more of their relationship after Joel tells Ellie the truth about the Fireflies, I would’ve felt his death would have been more okay (still shitty, but slightly better than what they gave us) because it would feel more unexpected and it would hit better emotionally after these moments we had with Ellie and Joel. Hell, the majority of the game should have been as it was advertised (which is another issue I’m gonna touch on shortly): the rocky relationship between Joel and Ellie after Ellie learns the truth and the two of them going on a revenge quest together, as Joel tried to earn Ellie’s forgiveness. The events presented in the order in the game also made it impossible for anyone to try to like Abby. We learn she commits the biggest atrocity and we know all her friends are going to end up dead, so there’s no emotional impact when we see how they die because we’ve known the whole time they were gonna be killed by Ellie. Both Abby’s character and the story they were trying to tell could’ve have been really great and interesting but it was just so poorly executed.

The story itself seemed so amateur as well. It just boiled down to “revenge and violence are bad uwu” while giving the player no choice but to engage in said violence. They tried to create a gray area between good and evil like they did in the first game, especially with Abby’s story but they ended up doing the opposite. Also the weak use of animals and pregnancy to create emotional impact is just so easy. They couldn’t think of any other way to make us connect to the characters except “hey look they love this animal” or “this is someone who is going to have a baby under these rough circumstances” and it’s just sloppy writing especially because they use both tactics MORE THAN ONCE.

The intersecting stories, themes of “what really is good/evil,” redemption of a thought to be unlikable character, and the death of a beloved character would have been so interesting and emotionally impactful if done right, but it felt like Naughty Dog chose every terrible option and outcome, resulting in the wet fart that we got. It felt sloppy with no honoring of the previous game or characters. We all cared, but apparently the writer’s didn’t. The ending with Ellie essentially being left with what she feared most, being alone, would’ve been way more appropriate had anything prior warranted this consequence. Not only is she alone, but Ellie loses the ability to play guitar, a way in which she remembered and felt connected to Joel. Like she goes through hell, and 99% of her actions are justified, yet she gets punished.

Lastly, I want to touch on the false advertising for the game. Normally, I wouldn’t be upset because movie trailers do it all the time where there will be subtle differences or added scenes that don’t occur in the movie, but this was a whole other level of fuckery. I get trying to mislead people to think something is going to happen only to steer them in a different direction, in fact I think this is really cool and fun when done well. However, this was straight up lying and essentially selling an entirely different game. Not only were these lies perpetuated in trailers and ads, but even in events such as E3. Neil Druckmann constantly harped on the idea that the game was going to be about Ellie and Joel having a falling out after Ellie learns the truth and how they navigate their relationship through their next adventure together. Yet the game was never about that, instead it was just a story about drawing shitty parallels between a beloved character and a new character who was destined to be unlikable from the start.

In the end, I think it’s still worth playing because I’ve seen so many mixed reviews floating around so I feel it’s best to make your own opinion. And if nothing else, it’s a fun experience if you’re just looking at a fun game to play if you don’t really care too much about the series or characters as a whole. Will I return to this game? Not anytime soon likely. But just being the fan that I am of the series I think I’ll try to get most of the achievements eventually, and to experiment with photomode because the visuals are so good. Even with how much of a disservice this game is to the series, I don’t think it ruins it for me. It just makes me love and appreciate the first game even more and I think they could bounce back from this, but they’d need to put in a shit ton of work to earn their core audience back.

TL;DR: As an addition to the Last of Us as a series, the game is a huge disappointment and disservice, but as a standalone game it’s slightly above average. The gameplay, music, and visuals slap but the story, characters, and relationship building (or lack thereof) suck. Naughty Dog lied in a highly scummy way to fans via advertisements and trailers. Fuck Abby. Stan Lev and Yara.

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luminisvii · 4 years

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okay im gonna go black out and write some bullshit about my Thoughts on Literary Analysis and Character Writing bc i love writing and i love trying to figure out what works and what doesn’t. i am an unfortunate fan of fire emblem, so the real joke is on me, but let’s do this anyway. using a lot of bold as always! it makes me feel special.

Why is Leonie such a divisive character?

as per usual, here is my disclaimer that it’s okay to like Leonie. it’s also okay to dislike her, as long as you’re not being a massive dick about it. lord knows people are rude to me about lorenz and i didn’t ask for their opinions. if you like leonie, i am not out to get you, i’m not going to tell you that you shouldn’t, i’m not even mad at you. Neat! you like a character i don’t! and that’s just fine. i honestly don’t care! go have fun!

so let’s talk. theres a TL;DR at the end so be ready.

i’ll make no bones about it: i’m in the camp that dislikes her. i don’t have the energy to hate her as i do for faye, but leonie is pretty obnoxious as a character and it’s an uphill battle to like her. i’ve played VW like three times since i’m a self professed GD stan so i’ve dealt with her a lot, read most of her supports, and seen her as a character in actual cutscenes and stuff.

the short answer: making a character obsessed with another one and having that be most of their personality is really annoying.

the long answer: let’s start on that now! these are my personal thoughts and analysis, so you’re free to disagree with me if you think i’m falling short.

one statement i will make right away is that i’m not offended by leonie being mean to the player. a lot of people who stan leonie like to argue that people dislike her because she’s one of the few characters who doesn’t kiss byleth’s ass immediately. that’s fine. that doesn’t bother me. after all, seteth and hapi are mean to byleth at first too, and those two are far more beloved… in fact, it’s funny that they’re mean to byleth. i would also argue that my favorite lord claude is not buddy buddy with byleth at first either, but if these popular opinion threads have proven anything to me, people love taking claude’s lying ass at face value. that’s besides the point—it’s okay that leonie isn’t immediately friendly to byleth. that is not an objective character flaw. characters need something to conflict over in the narrative, and not being instantly friendly to a player insert is not a problem in the slightest.

the major flaw in leonie’s character, imo, is that the writers decided it was a brilliant idea to make her obsessed with a man who barely seems to acknowledge her. this is an extremely unfortunate reoccurring character trope in fire emblem. notable other victims that more modern fe fans may recognize are faye and cordelia, faye being the worst offender. luckily, leonie isn’t as bad as faye. but it really is irritating that leonie, along with these other women, seem entirely driven by men who cannot acknowledge them. within three houses, you have similar traits in male characters as well: cyril is another notable offender, and to a lesser extent, dedue’s fixation on dimitri. now, we do see jeralt talking to leonie at the very least, and he does speak about her at least once in my memory, and positively at that. so it’s not as pathetic as the likes of faye.

outside of that, leonie cannot stop fucking reminding everyone she comes across: she loves captain jeralt. she’s his only apprentice. and you, dear player, who is his child, are not good enough, because you don’t love him as much as she does. practically all her convos with byleth are about how they don’t love jeralt enough, save for a slight turn around in the A support where she talks about her promise to protect byleth in jeralt’s place. to be honest, i usually ditch her in any run i’m forced to take her (hello sylvain, the superior idiot redhead cavalier) so this promise is just cute.

the arrogance in this attitude is insensitive at best, and as seen in her B support with byleth, potentially malicious and self centered at worst.

let’s not beat around the bush. the main point of contention for leonie is her B support with byleth, which is locked to jeralt’s death. you cannot get this support until jeralt has kicked it. and if you’re on GD, chances are you have gotten enough support points with leonie to get it immediately upon his death. the man’s grave is still fresh. what does she have the gall to say to her beloved mentor’s child?

“I've spent my whole life working to become a great mercenary like your father. There were so many times when I wanted to ask his advice, but I couldn't. I just had to make do. That's how I've made it this far. Just hard work, all on my own. But then you come along... And it's like you don't appreciate Captain Jeralt at all, or how lucky you were to have him around your whole life! Ugh! It still really bothers me! You might be his kid, but I'm still his best apprentice! Got it?!”

YIKES.

no matter how you dice it, saying that to someone whos father just died? NOT GOOD. it doesn’t matter what her reasoning is. a lot of people argue that this is realistic, that she’s acting out of grief. maybe so. however, if the game wants me to like her, they’re failing, no matter how realistic her reaction is. if this was supposed to be seen as a moment of weakness, that would be one thing, but it’s clear leonie never learns anything from this. she never gets better. she spends the rest of her life constantly centered on jeralt, and sees byleth as a competitor and obstacle to his affections, even after he’s dead.

i don’t want to entirely make this about byleth, because let’s be real, byleth is only one of her many supports. but it is the most easily noticeable, and the least charitable to her character.

also fun fact i did a basic search for jeralt in her supports and thats 37 times hes mentioned lmao this isn’t even accounting for her non support dialogue! which is still a lot!

so a decent chunk of her supports still involve her talking about how great jeralt is as if the man is jesus. her better supports don’t involve him at all. i don’t have easy access to a lot of her dialogue by chapter, but quite a bit of her regular dialogue references jeralt too, be it by name or title, and a good chunk of her endings, especially her solo one, have her just taking up his title and job and drinking habits. it’s supposed to be seen as cute.

this woman is in her 20s at the beginning of the game. she’s my age. this kind of behavior is worrying.

so you’re thinking “tell, you’ve spent a LOT of time talking about how leonie won’t shut the fuck up about jeralt. what about the rest of her character? unlike faye, she actually has one!” right you are! i will concede that. leonie does have things going on for her outside of her constant screeching about jeralt! what are they?

we see that her personality has her as a hard worker and frugal person because she’s grown up in a life that has less than many of her peers. she’s rational and rather keen, capable of assessing her opponents correctly and outsmarting them. she likes to help others. her supports with claude are fairly interesting as they talk about their own perspectives on the world to each other in a friendly manner. she talks to bernadetta and praises her skill in craft and manages to befriend her. in fact, all her supports where she doesn’t mention jeralt at all are pretty good. she can be headstrong and sometimes quick to jump to conclusions, but leonie isn’t one to be too beholden to preset ideas and shows a capability to learn and change.

wait, this sounds like a pretty well rounded and likeable character i’m describing! what happened here? this kind of portrayal is almost contradictory to the side of her that only thinks of jeralt.

a lot of people who like leonie like her for these aspects. at first, i had thought her to be interesting, since she’s the poorest student in the entire school, here on money raised by her entire village, which must have been extremely difficult for them to do. she doesn’t understand how nobles can be so frivolous, and butts heads with the likes of hilda, who has been raised in luxury her whole life and she clashes even harder with lorenz, who is obsessed with nobility. in a way, leonie is the slap from reality that many of the rich students from garreg mach need. and she also serves an important function in the dynamic of the deer—she’s a bit of a hapless straight man to all their bullshit. they always need one of those! in the lions, that role falls to ingrid, while edelgard plays that to her own house.

so yes, there is merit in leonie’s character. there’s a lot to like about her here. however, in my opinion, it’s not enough to make up for the incredibly abrasive aspects of her fixation on jeralt. it really just comes back to that—that someone decided that it would be a fantastic character trait to have her never stop thinking about a man, and flaunt this to the man’s child. constantly. almost all her dialogue directed at byleth is about jeralt. post skip, a lot more of her lines become about jeralt and making him proud. it’s like she thinks that he’s her dad. she’s a grown ass woman! leonie is one of the older students! she is an adult by the time the game starts! an adult with some actual worldly experience, unlike her peers! what went wrong? why is she like this? why did they make her so fucking annoying when it comes to jeralt?

so yes, that’s what i think is the major flaw of her character. a flaw that is not easily overcome. cyril is a largely derided character for similar reasons. another simple control+f tells me that rhea is mentioned in cyril’s supports 59 times so uh, woo! he has leonie beat there.

worst of all this is a flaw that narratively, she does not overcome. she never grows and gets better from it. she never changes her single minded determination to impress jeralt, even long after he’s dead. a good chunk of her endings have her taking up his business and acting just like him, taking his title too. somehow lorenz is the more likeable character, and lorenz starts off as a much worse person than her! he starts as a stinky incel classist and somehow, especially over the course of verdant wind, manages to learn and grow and change into a much better person, while leonie remains stagnant in who she is. her own peers outdo her in almost every aspect, in that they appear to be capable of growing up while leonie, already an adult, never seems to show any signs of maturing over the course of the game. we see ignatz turn from a meek nerd to someone who’s willing to do what it takes to protect what he cares about. marianne grows from suicidal and depressed to finding the will to live because it means she’ll be able to spend more time with things she enjoys and people she loves. lorenz goes from snobbish and distant over his complex about nobility to being one of the kindest members of the deer, willing to go against his father for the greater good. even hilda matures! hilda starts the game lazy and unambitious, trying to avoid work, saying she’d never risk her life for her friends, to fighting against some of the strongest forces in the continent and ESPECIALLY on CF we see her refusing to abandon claude in his time of need, no matter how bad it gets, even if it costs her life. what does leonie do? leonie seems to forever be stuck in the mindset that she has to impress jeralt, no matter how far she goes.

this is incredibly nitpicky, i’ll admit, this isn’t really part of the character analysis, but i find she under performs as a unit too. she may have ungodly speed and no weaknesses in her skills, but damage output wise she’s easily outdone in house by the other canon paladin of lorenz and his wonky statline, and out of house sylvain has basically the same ability as her, the same color hair, and a crest + relic that make him way more effective. the man has bulk, too. so, that’s a small ding to leonie as well. i had the same problem with sully in awakening. for all the talk about how these women are just as good as the men, they appear to under perform quite a bit.

and i’m gonna talk real quick in a basic list format of arguments i’ve seen for people defending leonie, since i’m running out of like, a coherent way to talk about some of this stuff.

-She’s realistic.

maybe so, but the game intends for me to find her as likeable and sympathetic, as it is for all recruitable characters. her reactions to byleth and sometimes others may be realistic, but don’t paint a charitable image of her. again, the moment in her B support with byleth is so bad, it makes her seem like she’s acting towards them with cruel intent. while i don’t care about byleth’s feelings since byleth isn’t a real person, what it does is it paints leonie as malicious, no matter what her intent was or how realistic it is. yes, she’s in grief, she’s lost someone important to her, but in what context is telling someone who just lost their dad that they didn’t love him enough supposed to garner anything but hatred? even if she apologizes for it in their A support, that means she basically took years to do so and still seems to think of byleth as an obstacle to her being like jeralt.

although as i have said before, the rest of her personality is fine. i find her non jeralt stuff is much more well written. she’s a down to earth person amidst a sea of lunatics. that’s not a problem.

-People don’t like her because she’s mean to Byleth.

this is probably true in some regards although i can’t say for certain. because byleth is a player insert and some might take it personally, but otherwise i find this isn’t much of a good universal claim since there’s more to the disdain to that. personally, i think it’s hilarious when video game characters are mean to me, but that’s just My Opinion, so no, i’m really not offended by leonie being mean to me. other characters are also mean to byleth, and that leads into the next point...

-Other characters act similarly towards Byleth and they’re popular.

one, look at those stupid unpopular opinions threads on twitter. they’re not as loved as you think. two, a lot of the characters who are listed for these things are often the likes of seteth and felix, and let’s talk about the context of their actions there. seteth is indeed mean to byleth at first, but his intent is wildly different from leonie’s—he’s suspicious, and rightfully so, of this mercenary who came out of nowhere and rhea is suddenly showing a lot of interest in and is giving a position of power to. seteth is not acting out of malintent or jealousy, he’s acting out of concern for the students and his daughter as well as rhea. because his core intent is “protect everyone around me” it comes off as far more palatable and dare i say, endearing. this is vastly different than “i’m jealous towards byleth because i love their dad and hate that they’re getting attention i can’t.” with a character like felix, this is outright incorrect—felix is not necessarily more rude to byleth more than he would be anyone else. felix is angry with the faerghus four in particular, but everyone else gets the same level of vague disrespect from him otherwise, so his behavior is not centralized to byleth. again, i don’t care about byleth’s feelings. there is also cyril, who is similarly obsessed with rhea, and is just as irritating as leonie for it, if not worse because he gets an extra layer of being a poc character obsessed with a white one who saved him.

tl;dr: context and intent matters. a lot. i know this is a ton to ask of the fe fandom to consider taking things beyond face value, but please consider the context of characters actions and their intent behind them.

-People who don’t like Leonie are misogynistic.

i won’t discount that there are bad actors who are likely extra critical of leonie because she’s a female character. it could be and has been argued that the reasons that characters like edelgard and ingrid are so controversial is because they are female. but not everyone who raises criticisms is strictly doing so in bad faith. most people i’ve seen criticizing leonie do it for the same reasons i am, which is that she’s an abrasive character. these traits would not be any better on a male character and in some regards could be worse. so for this one, it’s better to take it as a case by case situation, and pay attention to how people are talking. those doing so for less savory reasons often let it slip eventually, somehow. i’ve been avoiding using the word “bitch” in this entire thing for this exact reason.

-Her non-Byleth supports are good.

this is highly subjective imo and comes down to what you personally like in a character. i do like some of her non byleth supports, but she still has an unfortunate habit of bringing up jeralt in non byleth supports, so the only ones that are truly good are the ones where she doesn’t talk about him at all. even then, some like her one with marianne can do the same accidental portrayal of her seeming like a pretty unpleasant person. this isn’t saying that leonie can’t be flawed or short tempered, after all i adore felix and he’s got Some Fuckin Issues, but her portrayal as a kind and bright person clashes with how she’s portrayed surrounding byleth and jeralt. far too much. i like her supports with claude, i like her line with bernadetta, and her seteth one is good too, but i’d also argue that as a personality she doesn’t bring much to the table. she’s a perfectly serviceable character when she’s not dealing with byleth, but i personally fail to see more appeal to her. she isn’t particularly enrapturing like some of the others, and unlike someone like ingrid who has a similar role in BL, doesn’t have the shared history and integration with the deer that grants ingrid a unique perspective on her peers. although again, this is highly subjective, so it’s tough to argue about this. i’ll grant that yes, the writing that doesn’t surround jeralt is WAY better and almost makes leonie a redeemable character.

-Other characters are worse.

very true! i’ll cite faye again as the bottom line for “this is how abysmal this character could be” and in feth itself there is, as stated many times before, cyril. however it doesn’t mean that leonie is better by association. and i also often see people citing seteth as an example over the rudeness to the player too, but once again that’s about context and intent. hapi is a lesser example, due to a similar mistrusting nature, and there’s quite a bit of the cast who are cold and rude because that’s just who they are. now, thank fucking god that leonie actually talks about things that aren’t jeralt. like, seriously, i’d die. she still talks about him too much, but i really should go through all of faye’s dialogue to do a proper count.

so now you’re probably thinking—if you even got this far—“gee tell, you sure do like running your fuckin mouth, eh? so what’s the point of all this?” let’s wrap it up.

the TL;DR:

what this all boils down to is that leonie’s got a serious problem in her writing where her entire life revolves around a man, and the way it’s dealt with isn’t particularly great. she doesn’t have a dynamic character arc like some others that redeem them from their problems, and the personality she has outside of her relationship to jeralt and byleth often clashes with the one she has with them, particularly centering on byleth. when dealing with byleth, the image it paints of her is extremely negative, and not one easily shaken—again, the B support moment is just THAT BAD. that is the most cited moment for why people hate her. it just seems like for all the flaws she has, they are not compensated for or grown out of like other characters in the game do for theirs.

theres also that tweet about how we put more thought into these characters than intsys does, so. yeah. definitely doing that right now. thanks, intsys, you did it again.

i will also point to the argument that we should hold the writers accountable, not the fictional characters who aren’t real and don’t have feelings. i don’t think leonie needs to be held accountable for her bullshit. i just wish the writers could have treated her better.

this is personally why i find leonie so difficult, and hopefully if you didn’t understand why people don’t like leonie, this can help enlighten you. i’m willing to hear people out if they have something to say, and as always, if you are a leonie stan, please go enjoy yourself, have fun, and don’t let me ruin your parade. i just enjoy trying to figure things out and talking a lot along the way! so that’s all, here’s hoping that in the future they do better, and remember that GD is the best house okay bye take this picture of me typing up this whole ass thing

#don't tell me tell #i should probably make a separate tag for when i lose my fucking mind like this

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