#pagan discourse

[sigynsilica]

Friendly reminder that if you believe there is only one right thing to believe in regards to faith and religion, and all the other beliefs are stupid, ill-informed, cults, immature, etc., you are operating under evangelical rhetoric.

This goes for anti-theists, exvangelicals who are trying to "rescue" others from the church, actual Christian Evangelicals, or anyone else who is actively trying to get other people to align their beliefs with their own.

So remember, kids. It's not okay to tell other people what to and what not to believe. Just because you don't find value in religion, or were harmed by religion, doesn't mean others don't or weren't. Your experiences are not universal.

#pagan discourse #deconstructing christianity #anti-theism #this is in fact #exactly what drew me away from Christianity in the first place #and now i find it everywhere #not all religions are cults #not all religious people are stupid #it was a very strange moment for me to realize #that if i didn't stop generalizing about an entire set of beliefs #and insisting they were all stupid #that i would in fact #be just like them #and who wants to be the authority on what a “bad religion” is? #doesnt that seem #a little arrogant? #to believe that You Found The One Real Answer? #and everyone else is still stumbling in the dark? #hm #press x to doubt

[tyetknot]

*carefully tosses a golden apple labelled 'TO THE LEAST PROBLEMATIC' into the middle of witchblr discourse*

#Witchblr #Drama #The discourse #KALLISTI #Wicca #Witchcraft #Pagan

[luckthebard]

Genuinely confused as to how so much of the fandom watched the first 2 CR campaigns and Calamity and yet still ended up in a “Ludinus is right let’s kill all the gods” position. Like it’s baffling to me how much content/context people have just decided to completely forget? We had 2 full campaigns of very positive interactions with the gods and the moment there’s some hypothetical and interesting musing and speculation about their roles in the world from a more disconnected place we’re just throwing that out the window?*

Tbh the number of people who watched episode 4 of Calamity and still saw Asmodeus as sympathetic or having a legitimate point is unsettling to me, but while that’s a related issue it’s not quite the same conversation.

But like legitimately how did we so quickly make a hard turn from “The Stormlord teaches his barbarians to use the power of friendship, he’s a funny kindergarten teacher” memes to…this.

*(This is not, btw a comment on the characters having philosophical debates in-world because I think those are interesting and on-theme for the campaign and are also nearly always concluding with “our personal relationship to individual gods and feelings about them are irrelevant actually, the people trying to destroy them are doing wider harm and are in the wrong and must be stopped.” I’m actually loving the engagement with this by the characters in-universe but the fandom is exhausting me.)

#people stop engaging with all fantasy religion like it’s the same as bigoted evangelical American Christianity challenge #oh also the ‘the gods are colonial invaders’ take is also super weird to me because that’s applying recent human history to what is #basically standard like Greek or Roman creation myth? #like a ton of European pagan lore has a ‘the gods we worship came from afar and tamed the wilds of nature’ narrative #it is a metaphor #cr discourse #legit saw someone this morning confidently posting ‘well Ludinus just is right though!’ and I wanted to close down the whole internet #critical role

[urban0primitive]

If I see one more person bitching about the “it” pronouns or “bi lesbian” label you are banished. That’s it. It has 9 girlfriends and hacked the fucking no fly list!! You wish you could comprehend it’s swag

#crimes #maia arson crimew #gay #lgbt #queer #gaypunk #gay pagan #gay witch #gaygoth #pride #discourse #why is the lgbt community so fucking stupid?? #literally be gay do crime??? #your pronouns are valid #shouldn’t you be more worried about the crazy racism?

[childofthewolvess]

Divine Masculine and Divine Feminine, even down to the concept can be incredibly misogynistic and erase nonbinary folks, and when used in contemporary spaces without even acknowledging the movements they came from can be incredibly, incredibly harmful.

Gods and deities are energetic extensions of the universe which is and never has been defined by male or female. Nature, by default, is genderless and concepts of divine masculinity and femininity simply do not exist within nature. This is coming from a professional naturalist.

Masculinity and femininity are ONLY human concepts. Point blank period.

It’s okay to say a deity has a masculine or feminine energy, or recognize them in a male or female form (I certainly do, as a genderfluid/genderqueer individual), but to assign all things as Divine Masculine or Feminine while often associating feminine traits as negative (fragility; submissive; sensitive; weak; over emotional) is INCREDIBLY harmful.

#witchblr #hellenic witch #paganism #pagan witch #eclectic pagan #pagan community #norse pagan #lokean #heathenry #witchcraft #divine feminine #the divine masculine #twin flame #discourse #lgbtqia #gender magic #genderfluid #genderqueer #nonbinary

[khaire-traveler]

Since I haven't made an official post saying this (I don't think), I want to make it clear that I support godspousing.

People are allowed to have whatever kind of relationships with their deities that they want to have. It's not up to us, as outside observers, to dictate what people can and cannot do within their PERSONAL deity relationships.

Seriously, some of y'all need to, like, chill. Eat a Snickers. Drink some water. Stop worrying about what other people are doing within their PERSONAL practice.

#helpol #hellenic polytheism #hellenic pagan #godspousing #godspousery #paganblr #the discourse over this shit is ridiculous #literally nuns exist #and no one in the pagan community seems to bat a damn eye about the “brides of christ” #what if we all just chilled out #and were respectful of each other's practices #especially since godspousing has been historically proven #just an idea ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯ #sorry for the venting in tags lol

[kareenvorbarra]

...I must confront Apollo with his wrongs. To force a girl Against her will and and afterward betray! To leave a child to die which has been born In secret! No! Do not act thus. But since You have the power, seek the virtuous path. All evil men are punished by the gods. How then can it be just for you to stand Accused of breaking laws you have yourselves Laid down for men? But if--here I suppose What could not be--you gave account on earth For wrongs which you have done to women, you, Apollo and Poseidon and Zeus who rules In heaven, payment of your penalties Would see your temples empty, since you are Unjust to others in pursuing pleasure Without forethought. And justice now demands That we should not speak ill of men if they But imitate what the gods approve, but those Who teach men their examples.

Ion (from Ion by Euripides, translated by R. F. Willetts)

#okay i FINALLY read this play and i liked it a lot. there is so much going on here #but right after i read it i found some discourse that i sometimes stumble across in conversations about paganism #about how you can't treat gods like characters who do good or bad things #and that's sort of true? it doesn't really make sense to look at gods in (for example) greek mythology and treat them as wholly good or bad #and i think this applies whether you engage with them as literary characters or as gods (or both). adaptations that do this annoy me! #BUT. you cannot act like ancient societies didn't have moral questions and discussions about their own gods. they absolutely did #ion #apollo #euripides #queue

[broomsick]

Anti-religion people don’t realize it’s as disrespectful to tell someone “all religions are cults” and that they’re “gullible” for having religious belief as it is to pretend one’s faith is the one and only true belief. Browsing twitter had me reading some horrid, cruel takes on religious belief. Those who shun and ridicule others for having spiritual beliefs are no better than the domineering religious institutions they base their views upon to cast this judgment.

#personal #rant #religion #polytheism #paganism #spirituality #deities #deity work #discourse

[whereserpentswalk]

I've heard a lot of bad takes in my time but hearing that someone thinks atheists made up neopaganism to promote state atheism is a new one and is separated from reality and logic in such a unique way.

#196 #my thougts #leftism #leftist #athiesm #pagan #paganism #neopaganism #discourse #piss on the poor website

[sag-dab-sar]

I've noticed this, upsetting, phenomenon pop up again: people using "Hellene," as a religious identity. Hellene is the word for a Greek person in the Greek language. You are not Greek because you practice Hellenic polytheism or Hellenic paganism. Yes, it is an open tradition but Hellenic Polytheist shouldn't be disrespecting Greek people, and they need to accept the fact that Greek culture, language, and nation are still alive and well. They aren't a relic of history.

I've had this in my drafts for awhile but a recent post about Hellene being an ethnically Greek person, as well as words like Hellenism, Hellenismos, and Hellenic referring to Greek people, community, and culture got some more traction recently... and xenophobia. So I thought I'd just post this draft instead.

For some direct comparisons identifying as "I'm Hellene" or "I'm Hellenic" because you practice Hellenic Polytheism/Paganism. Would be like saying:

"I'm Éireannach" the word for an Irish person in Irish Gaelic simply because you practice Celtic Polytheism/Paganism. Or even "I'm a Celt" since there are six Celtic nations.

"I'm Russkiye" the word for a Russian person in Russian simply because you practice Slavic Polytheism/Paganism. Or even "I'm a Slav" since there are many Slavic ethnicities. [Edit: Singular female "Ruskaya" Singular masculine "Russkoi"]

"I'm Svenskar" the word for Swedes in Swedish simply because you practice Norse Polytheism/paganism. Or even "I'm Nordic" since Nordic countries still exist.

None of those make sense. So neither does "I'm Hellene."

(These words could include either people who are ethnically in those groups or citizens of those countries thats dependent on the culture and I'm not going to speak for them. Also yes their are other Celtic, Slavic, and Germanic ethnicities I just chose one for each.) *I may have messed up some of the languages but I hope my general point is understood

Saying I'm a Hellenic Polytheist or Hellenic Pagan instead of Hellenic or Hellene, in order to respect another culture, is not that hard.

-not 100% audio proof read-

#hellenic paganism #hellenic polytheism #helpol #polytheism #paganism #this should not be discourse #ofthetheoi #technically i can say im a hellene #but not due to my religion #i should also break the habit of saying im sumerian even if it is a -dead- culture #disc horse

[mamaangiwine]

It's okay to be aesthetically inclined in your practice, but it is important to remember that aesthetics are not history and to remain flexible when you're being confronted with actual historical research. It's okay to be inspired, but to take care that you're not shaping your identity around historical misconceptions and romantic notions.

I mention this because inflexibility on this topic is what nazis and other white supremacists prey on in pagan and occult circles.

Nazis do not care about historical accuracy; in fact they loathe it as a cruel force that would take away their participation in a larger, grander narrative. They view it as a plot to strip them of their supposed birthright.

If you find yourself clinging to a false narrative for the sake of purpose, and go searching for info that makes it "true", please keep in mind that Nazis will always tell you they have the "answers".

One of the hardest parts of this path, no matter the tradition, is having to accept when we are wrong. Especially when we thought we had all the answers. In that way, we are not just reconciling with history but with ourselves.

#magic #folk magic #spirituality #history #magic history #magic practitioners #witchblr #witchcraft #wizards #pagan #paganism #heathenry #nazis fuck off #discourse

[tyetknot]

I saw your comment on that one post about Wicca, and I was just wondering, why was it once extremely common sense to ignore Robin Artisson? I’ve seen others say similar things in the past but without elaboration, I’m not able to find anything about why ignoring him as an author is a good idea.

Well, to put it succinctly, the man is an ass. This is not in of itself unusual - indeed, many people in the online and offline pagan and witchcraft community are assholes, and there are certainly those who would say that I am one myself. Artisson is a little bit different though. A long, long time ago a lot of pagan, witchcraft, and Wiccan discourse happened on LiveJournal, where Artisson would post under the handle Son of Art, among others, and he was notorious for being a complete and total prick, an arrogant and argumentative asshole, a piece of shit, a liar, a plagiarizer, a whole host of other things. The most nuclear of takes, in modern parlance. Not a nice guy. Not fun to have around. Not good to engage with. And people knew this. It was common knowledge that Son Of Art was someone you did not engage with and should ignore, because he was a complete and total dipshit in a very smug and self-satisfied and condescending way which was much worse and very different from the way people like, say, Wade MacMorrighan were notorious and unpleasant extremely online dipshits.

LiveJournal is probably dead at this point, I have no idea, and I don't know if receipts are even still available now, but I reckon if you manage to find some Wiccans who were online 2001 - 2009 they can tell you stories about Robin Artisson and his online antics that would make you wonder why anyone bothers referencing his books.

#Wicca #Witchcraft #Asks #Pagan #Paganism #The Discourse #Elder witches

[tub3rculosis]

if ur pagan n believe in that divine masculine divine feminine dichotomy shit you're no better than christians who use the bible to support their queerphobia. the idea that masculinity/femininity are inherent to the universe completely ignores that these roles 1) have not always existed and 2) rose to prominence mainly in europe. to see gender as an inherent binary is not only a massive red flag for many queer folks but is also kinda fucking racist or at least eurocentric considering the massive fucking amount of cultures with gender roles that go beyond masc/femme. and basing a whole belief system on this shit is actually crazyyyy esp bc these same bitches will more often than not see themselves as allies. girl PLEASE stfu like just go full terf atp it'll be less offensive ☠️

#seriousposting #not now kitten daddy needs to post his angry rants on tumblr dot com #queer discourse #trans discourse #queer liberation #trans liberation #paganism

[sophieinwonderland]

Yes, the cultural and religious exemptions in the DSM covers converts to religions too!

I've just been seeing this particularly dangerous misinformation rearing its head again, with people claiming these exemptions only apply to people born and raised into a culture because they have a "different brain structure."

The idea that these exemptions only apply to certain groups is, of course, nonsense, and I've talked before about how psychiatrists have explicitly referenced this exemption in the case of modern tulpamancers.

This misinformation would seek to pathologize so many spiritual plurals and voice hearers, and I would ask that people please refrain from spreading it.

This is especially harmful to many in the pagan community with unusual experiences who might fear going to seek mental help if they believe their spirituality may be misdiagnosed and treated as an illness, as most weren't raised pagan.

It's absolutely integral that we stand against this sort of dangerous misinformation!

#syscourse #plural #paganism #spirituality #religion #plurality #endogenic #system #plural system #multiplicity #systems #endogenic system #system discourse #religions #pagans #psychiatry #psychology #mental health #pro endogenic #pro endo

[pjthewitch]

i think we do need to be gentle to people who are likely experiencing spiritual psychosis. i experience psychosis myself, and someone coming at me aggressively will always drive me further into it. it’s always worth calling out harmful ideas and practices being perpetuated on the internet, but i think sometimes people could be a little more kind and considerate of who they engage with directly.

and i shouldn’t have to say this, but it’s the internet so i do: this post is NOT about people who have gone so far off the deep end that they are causing genuine harm, or for people who are sound of mind and just perpetuating harmful ideas/practices because that’s what they truly believe.

#everyone’s a mental illness ally until we start displaying symptoms of our disorders #sometimes not getting into discourse directly with these people is better #sometimes indirect callouts are better #unfortunately over the internet you can not do much to help someone with psychosis #but you can absolutely make it so much worse #most of the time we will eventually come out if psychosis and feel very humiliated over our behaviour during #witchblr #witchcraft #witch #paganblr #pagan #paganism #polytheist #polytheism #polytheistic #spirituality #psychosis #spiritual psychosis #mental illness

[skaldish]

I don't think you have a right to tell anybody what is and is not Norse animism, considering you didn't grow up in a Nordic country. The way the Norse interact with the vaettr is the exact opposite of what you're suggesting.

The many Scandinavian Heathens I've spoken to have said otherwise. Everything about Norse Animism involves understanding the vaettir at their level.

I'm very curious about where your information comes from, as I've asked about this very extensively.

#answered #norse paganism #norse heathenry #discourse