antiship-bad-takes

[antiship-bad-takes]

The "CSEM" in question is tetris characters, not children, real or otherwise

(This account is still mostly dead, but I just got the notif of this in my inbox and felt like it was necessary to post it)

#proship #anti #anti anti #antiship #antiship bad takes #pro ship #profiction #pro fiction #profic #pro fic #csem mention

[antiship-bad-takes]

In my opinion, while there is a LOT of overlap between proship and anto-censorship, I don't believe they are the same thing. Some proshippers DO support censoring certain media (such as RPF of minors, as a common example. Or, say, works that depict bigotry in a positive light without being integral to a story, as another one).

Most proshippers have a line that we believe shouldn't be crossed, and therefore most proshippers are not fully anti-censorship. Just as there are many proshippers who are RADICALLY anti-censorship, to the point of wanting hate-speech and csem to be legalized. This is simply a separate issue that does not have much bearing on whether someone is proship or not. In can tie into their views on ships/fiction, sure, but the topics of proship/antiship and censorship on their own are not truly related at their core.

The focus is on harassment because, above all, THAT is what we are against; harassment and abuse over fiction. Opinions on other matters (censorship, paraphilias, bigotry, RPF, etc) are all separate issues that vary among proshippers, so none of these are part of what makes someone a proshipper.

You can be a bigoted proshipper, or an open-minded one. You can be pro-para or anti-para and still be proship. You can be proship and radically anti-censorship, or you can be proship and still believe that some content should be censored, so long as you don't harm others during attempts to achieve that.

The ONLY REQUIREMENT to being proship is to be against harming real people over ships. To be profiction, you extend that to fiction in general. Any other aspect aside from views on harassment over ships/fiction is only tangentially related at most.

This got a little wordy, but I hope this explanation makes sense!

As someone who has been a part of 'fandom' on and off since I was 9, I am very confused about certain topics going around. Why is 'proship' only used to talk about minors? Wouldn't shipping adults also be proship? Also, as someone who is viscerally uncomfortable with dubcon/noncon I also fall into the 'anti' bracket? I haven't really been to the shipping discourse part of fandom for a few years and now I'm being flooded by a host of new terms and a bunch of VERY angry people.

As long as you don't harass people over the ships/tropes you dislike, or condone others doing the same, you aren't an anti. You don't have to adopt any label if you don't want to, but if you're just looking for definitions, here's the basic, general definitions:

Proship - Believes it's wrong to bully, harass, doxx, or wish harm on people over fictional ships, no matter which ship it is, who the characters involved are, etc. May still have preferences or dislikes (Note: Many proshippers exclude ships that involve real people, as that's not 100% fictional. However, many proshippers DON'T exclude it. Personally, I believe real-person-fiction (RPF) to be a separate issue from ship discourse entirely)

Profiction - Same as above, except with fiction in general, not just ships

Anti(ship) or Anti(fiction) - Thinks the above behavior is okay, or does it themself

#not a bad take #reblog

[antiship-bad-takes]

As someone who has been a part of 'fandom' on and off since I was 9, I am very confused about certain topics going around. Why is 'proship' only used to talk about minors? Wouldn't shipping adults also be proship? Also, as someone who is viscerally uncomfortable with dubcon/noncon I also fall into the 'anti' bracket? I haven't really been to the shipping discourse part of fandom for a few years and now I'm being flooded by a host of new terms and a bunch of VERY angry people.

As long as you don't harass people over the ships/tropes you dislike, or condone others doing the same, you aren't an anti. You don't have to adopt any label if you don't want to, but if you're just looking for definitions, here's the basic, general definitions:

Proship - Believes it's wrong to bully, harass, doxx, or wish harm on people over fictional ships, no matter which ship it is, who the characters involved are, etc. May still have preferences or dislikes (Note: Many proshippers exclude ships that involve real people, as that's not 100% fictional. However, many proshippers DON'T exclude it. Personally, I believe real-person-fiction (RPF) to be a separate issue from ship discourse entirely)

Profiction - Same as above, except with fiction in general, not just ships

Anti(ship) or Anti(fiction) - Thinks the above behavior is okay, or does it themself

#not a bad take #proship #anti #anti anti #antiship #profiction #pro ship #pro fiction #anon #anonymous

[antiship-bad-takes]

And now they tone police me! These ignorant children need to learn their respect and manners!

Another westerner who thinks they can tell a Japanese what my own language is and what my own words mean. And caring about women and LGBT people makes this person tell me to "kys" and call my culture "weird" and their racism is "silly"

(Admin Note: The origin of the term "fujoshi" was when men in Japan, who were similar to what we currently refer to as conservative incels in the United States, were upset about women supporting queer content of any kind. These homophobic and misogynistic men would refer to these women as "rotten women," as they were believed by these men to be unfit for marriage. The term was coined on Japanese message boards similar to 4chan in the late 90s/early 2000s. The term was specifically used by men who were angry that women spent more time uplifting, supporting, and creating queer content than looking for men to date, have sex with, and/or marry. Many of these women were stalked, sexually assaulted, and otherwise harmed by those who referred to them as fujoshi.

Fujoshi has NEVER meant "women who fetishize gay men." The term was appropriated by Americans starting in 2005, specifically TERFs and incels, as a way to push for the censorship of queer content. Many people who are anti-terf will still use the term as a slur, even queer people themselves, as right-wingers have unfortunately been successful in spreading misinformation about this term in the west. This blindly negative usage of the teem is most common among younger Americans, usually under the age of 25, as many people under that age were only starting to come to dedicated online fandom spaces AFTER the term had been reclaimed, and thus the misinformation makes sense to them and was accepted without question.

Fujoshi as a term has widely been reclaimed, but when used in a derogatory context, it is still considered to be a queerphobic and misogynistic slur.)

#proship #anti #anti anti #antiship bad takes #profiction #antiship #pro ship #pro fiction #racism tw #slurs tw #misogyny tw #homophobia tw #denial of violent history #fujoshi #anti ship

[antiship-bad-takes]

Another westerner who thinks they can tell a Japanese what my own language is and what my own words mean. And caring about women and LGBT people makes this person tell me to "kys" and call my culture "weird" and their racism is "silly"

(Admin Note: The origin of the term "fujoshi" was when men in Japan, who were similar to what we currently refer to as conservative incels in the United States, were upset about women supporting queer content of any kind. These homophobic and misogynistic men would refer to these women as "rotten women," as they were believed by these men to be unfit for marriage. The term was coined on Japanese message boards similar to 4chan in the late 90s/early 2000s. The term was specifically used by men who were angry that women spent more time uplifting, supporting, and creating queer content than looking for men to date, have sex with, and/or marry. Many of these women were stalked, sexually assaulted, and otherwise harmed by those who referred to them as fujoshi.

Fujoshi has NEVER meant "women who fetishize gay men." The term was appropriated by Americans starting in 2005, specifically TERFs and incels, as a way to push for the censorship of queer content. Many people who are anti-terf will still use the term as a slur, even queer people themselves, as right-wingers have unfortunately been successful in spreading misinformation about this term in the west. This blindly negative usage of the teem is most common among younger Americans, usually under the age of 25, as many people under that age were only starting to come to dedicated online fandom spaces AFTER the term had been reclaimed, and thus the misinformation makes sense to them and was accepted without question.

Fujoshi as a term has widely been reclaimed, but when used in a derogatory context, it is still considered to be a queerphobic and misogynistic slur.)

#proship #anti #anti anti #antiship bad takes #profiction #antiship #pro ship #pro fiction #racism tw #slurs tw #misogyny tw #homophobia tw #denial of violent history #fujoshi #anti ship

[antiship-bad-takes]

Just like Anti-Choicers Anti-Shippers goals were NEVER about protecting (real) children, ever.

Also Antis are actively clogging up the system for the agencies trying to find & save REAL CHILDREN, due to False Reporting on Hentai or even plain Anime that’s too cute as “CP” even no actual children are being depicted nor are in danger.

(Thus they’re actually HELPING REAL LIFE PEDOPHILES)

Meanwhile those who actually are Loli/shotacon ironically are the ones who not only have zero interest in rl children, but are the ones who are actively reporting REAL CP & helping spot (& weed out) actual bad guys, irl.

Also bare in mind many if not nearly all lolicons I know have all been victims themselves & just use art & shipping as a coping mechanism- something that is supported by most all psychologists & therapists. So those people have a very good reason to hate/loathe ACTUAL MAPS/Peds than the little teen idiots false reporting on DRAWINGS (that don’t depict a specific person who exists irl).

#antiship bad takes #proship #anti #anti anti #antiship #profiction #faia #pro ship #pro fiction #csem mention #csam mention #pedophilia mention #uncensored username

[antiship-bad-takes]

On Twitter someone made a call out with actual proof of a 🐜 grooming children and looking at CSEM. Their post only has 140 something likes.

A call out on them for liking Loli content has 1k+ likes.

In the quote tweets of the grooming call out is 🐜 saying thinks like "Hitler VS Stalin", "Friendly Fire", "I'm not reading all that shit" and more on that lines.

You can't say you care about children if you only protect FICTIONAL ones.

The amount of 🐜 I have seen defend other 🐜 who sexually harass minors, who have proof of grooming minors and have made open statements confirming inappropriate messages with minors in the last 24 hours is crazy. When a pro is outed for such things they normally get turned away from others not defended, so why isn't it the same for 🐜? Because yelling at them and hold those 🐜 accountable would be proving fiction doesn't = morals, proving there's bad people who side with them and they can't do that. They stay on there high horses and turn blind eyes so they can deny anything bad that can happen when you side with them.

#antiship bad takes #proship #anti #anti anti #antiship #profiction #faia #pro ship #pro fiction #suicide bait tw #sui bait tw #suicide mention #sui mention #suicide tw #super straight mention

[antiship-bad-takes]

staying anonymous for safety reasons.

i do not like or consume proship content. i block it when i see it and move on with my life. that being said, i don't want to associate with antis. the cruelty that comes from adult antis to teenager proshippers is stomach churning. death threats, encouraging suicide, saying they deserved their trauma...

most of these teenagers are victims of grooming. but they're met with hostility instead of compassion. the lives of fictional characters are more important in their eyes, not real kids.

adult antis who frequently participate in ship discourse follow a pattern. they portray themselves as "good" and "safe" adults and have followings consisting of (mostly) minors; they are even friends with these minors. they will rt proship content, typically leading to some sort of nsfw, knowing full well that they have underage followers. it's irresponsible and fucking creepy.

i seriously believe, whether which stance on the discourse you take, that this type of behavior needs to be called out. i applaud you for exposing the issues on both sides. we need more people like you speaking out

Thank you so much! I agree with you whole-heartedly. Anyone who intentionally exposes minors to adult content is doing something wrong, no matter their intentions. And with antis in particular, there's been a terrifying pattern of them using this method as a grooming tactic.

There's a reason so many ex-antis have horror stories.

#not a bad take #proship #anti #anti anti #antiship bad takes #antiship #profiction #faia #pro ship #pro fiction #anon #anonymous

[antiship-bad-takes]

i was a minor. got sexually abused by a much older antiship person. spoke out about it. told by others im a liar and trying to run a smear campaign because im not antiship and they are. fml

I've had a very similar experience, unfortunately. Antis covered up for my groomer too

#not a bad take #proship #anti #anti anti #antiship #profiction #faia #pro ship #pro fiction #pedophilia mention #grooming mention #anon #anonymous

[antiship-bad-takes]

I would say I’m neither anti nor proship (I’m definitely against harassment though that’s for sure), and the anti-kink rhetoric I’ve seen going around in current fandom and leftist spaces makes me sad, especially as someone who wants to explore kink. I remember when it was common to say and to remind other to “don’t kink shame” and now kink shaming is acceptable if it’s considered “problematic” (DDLG/CGL, daddy kink and other “diet pedophilia” kinks). I hate how antis have contributed to this.

I believe the worst part is how difficult it is now to actually discuss predatory behavior in fandom spaces

Whenever there's a callout, or an artist gets called a pedophile or a groomer, many people are often confused about the situation, since nobody can tell whether the person in question actually interacts with kids in a sexual manner, or if they drew an anime girl with big eyes and small tits once

Because of this, real predators have found anti-ship and anti-kink spaces to be the perfect hiding places. If they call out the right targets, they become a "safe adult" and can prey on any kids in those spaces and easily gain their trust. Antis are CONSTANTLY being outed for grooming kids (whether by showing them porn, soliciting sexual favors, etc), and many of the most outspoken antis have been put on the sex offender registry, or have admitted to raping family members and/or children (naefdude and dogwives are notorious examples)

The other thing is, antis have done the VERY THING they are trying to fight: they have normalized the spread of CSEM and other abusive materials. By constantly comparing real-life abuse to fictional scenarios, there have now been MULTIPLE cases of antis posting callouts and such that contain images of RWAL CHILDREN. By always treating them as the same (or at least comparable), they have quite literally desensitized THEMSELVES to images of child abuse, and will aid not only in spreading it, they also ACTIVELY make it difficult to report by flooding CSE forms and cybertip forms with cartoons

All of this normalizes pedophilia, as well as other forms of abuse, FAR MORE than any tagged anime daddy dom fanfiction EVER will

#not a bad take #anti anti #proship #anti #antiship #profiction #faia #pro ship #pro fiction #anon #anonymous #pedophilia mention #csem mention #csa mention #rape mention #incest mention

[antiship-bad-takes]

Their pinned post versus their most recent post. The suicide-baiter is YOU

#antiship bad takes #proship #anti #anti anti #antiship #profiction #faia #pro ship #pro fiction #suicide mention #sui mention #ableism tw #anti endo tw #syscourse tw

[antiship-bad-takes]

I don't think I need to explain why this is so bizarre and harmful. OP is an adult and should know better than this, especially since pedophiles and groomers use anti spaces as a breeding ground to gain the trust of those they wish to manipulate and abuse

#antiship bad takes #proship #anti #anti anti #antiship #profiction #faia #pro ship #pro fiction #suibait tw

[antiship-bad-takes]

Don't have an image cause I didn't wanna save it, but I went on twitter today (mistake). Learned that apparently soulmate au's are problematic cause they're "disrespectful of aro and ace people"………..Well that's news to me, an ace person dating a demiaro person…..who both write soulmate au's…. smh

I think they would have a point about the trope being rather amatonormative, but it isn't exactly aphobic in my opinion (as an aromantic person)

#not a bad take #anon #anonymous #profic #proship #anti anti #antiship #profiction #faia #pro ship #aphobia mention #arophobia mention

[antiship-bad-takes]

I will no longer be tagging my posts as "comship" due to my discomfort with the coiner(s) encouraging minors to enter spaces if they are "mature enough" for them. While I'm pretty sure they weren't talking about NSFW spaces, I still do not agree with encouraging adults to share spaces with minors where abusive dynamics are discussed. I do not believe minors are "mature enough" for discussions like that with adults in the real world. Thank you for understanding

#not a bad take #comship #proship #profic #profiction #faia

[antiship-bad-takes]

Anti are truly Toxic Scum..

#antiship bad takes #anti #anti shipper #anti shippers #tw suibaiting #tw bullying

[antiship-bad-takes]

Don't call me a fucking terf read my reblog you chose to ignore fuckstain. I said I'm inclusive of all lesbians in my separatism -Goddess

Then learn what a lesbian separatist is if you aren't actually a terf, or just admit that you're a terf using an outdated label for terf so people aren't as likely to call you on it, terf

#terf mention #anon #anonymous #antiship bad takes #terfism #transmisogny tw #transphobia tw

[antiship-bad-takes]

Its the panphobia for me….

Antishippers and queerphobes do have a tendency to overlap at times, so no surprise there

#antiship bad takes #anti #anti anti #proship #antiship #pro ship #profiction #faia #pro fiction #profic #comship #submission #fadecrow #panphobia #panphobia tw