now i’m kinda curious to hear what you think of proshipping.. if you don’t mind of course
I'll share my thoughts, and if theres anything I say that doesnt make sense feel free to point it out to me because I mostly write with the help of a translator. Under the cut because I wrote too much stuff.
TLDR: proshippers hate me because I dont want to look at glorified depictions of pedophilia/incest/etc, antis hate me because my content isnt 100% sanitized. I stay around anti circles because I find it slightly easier for me to talk about my headcanons with them even though I think they can be insufferable.
So the thing about proshipping. From what I've seen it means being "anti-harassment" and being in support of curating your online experience, which sounds great on paper and that's practically what I do. I have over 3k accounts blocked on my personal twitter to navigate the website more easily and I also dont care if someone blocks me if they dont like my stuff.
Except proshippers never consider me a proshipper because I am uncomfortable with viewing glorified depictions of topics like pedophilia, incest, rape, all that stuff. The same way people are uncomfortable with excessive blood and gore (which I also can't really handle seeing). Whether or not it's always easy to tell if it's glorified is an entirely different topic, which is precisely why I stay away from all depictions in general to avoid being intrusive.
And what's interesting is that I do not label myself an "anti". Mainly because I don't even know what the term "anti" is supposed to mean ("anti-" what exactly. Genuinely please tell me because I actually dont know) But the ones who label themselves "proship" always call me an anti, because again I do not wish to engage with content related to pedophilia etc, and that alone apparently enough to be considered "a person who harasses others over fiction" even if I mind my own business and have no interest in forcing my personal tastes on others, especially if they make it clear that they wont change their mind. Which makes me believe that for a lot of self-identified proshippers, the definition of being "proship" would be more similar to "I love fucked up stuff and if you dont then youre lame and it obviously means you can't tell the difference between fiction and reality" which honestly seems like insecurity to me.
Forgive me for bringing up this up once again but I want to mention an example to make it easier for me to explain: yknow the whole thing with me drawing Minori and Reigen and labelling it "non-cp" which caused a wave of both self-identified antis and proshippers harassing me over that (I'll say that proshippers were more bold about it since the antis harassing me were all anonymous). Proshippers saw me saying "I dont ship that" and interpreted it as me being defensive and in denial, as if I said "guys I swear Im an anti !!! please dont think im a proshipper !!! ", when I meant "I dont want to discuss this with others in a shipping manner because thats not how I see it and I dont want to enter a space Im not comfortable with"
I admit I responded to this situation in a petty manner, but this was after several days of harassment done directly in my inbox and publicly (sometimes I wish yall remembered that group chats and priv accounts exist). My point is that simply saying you don't like seeing pedophilia in fiction is enough for proshippers to believe it's justified for them to harass you over it (and I'm fully aware they'll say it's not harassment, only when antis and "puriteens" do this to them then it's harassment)
Now about the anti side. Don't get me started on them either. If proshippers see me as an enemy then this must mean that I always get along with the ones who call themselves "antis" (I do not). Note that Im only talking about adults here, I dislike beefing with children and I think their feelings about this are entirely reasonable (I'll elaborate on this when talking about internet safety)
But anyways. I think a lot of adults are discourse-brained and do way too much. Im thinking of nonsense like "this ship is problematic because they are 'sibling-coded' so thats basically incest" "siblings giving each other a hug gives me proship vibes" things of that nature. And you're not allowed to do anything that even has the smallest possibility of being interpreted as "problematic", because then they'll harass you for it, and if you clarify your intentions, they expect you to apologize for "misleading" them because clearly they didnt do anything wrong by making assumptions about you.
There's almost no room allowed for creativity with them, everyone has to follow fanon because they consider it canon, if you ever want to try something other than the same boring domestic fluff then it's "too much" (and not even platonic affection is acceptable to draw in certain cases). Which is incredibly fucking boring to me who wants to see different types of content. People even said I was enjoying incest for drawing Reigen selfcest, and that I was "making others uncomfortable" by drawing it. Genuinely seems to me that they only care about moral superiority, that they never think about anything in depth, and I dont think they realize that it also shows in what they create: boring and repeated fanart and headcanons where the only thing you can say about it is "thats cute", nothing more because you saw it ten billion times already. You cant draw two people showing platonic affection that absolutely nobody would bat an eye if it happened in real life, you cant discuss something specific in more depth without people saying you have a fetish for it, and then they'll harass you based on their speculation that it's a fetish. I dont think many realize this, but fandoms are full of autistic people, so it's normal to see people who are interested in very specific things that dont make sense to others! I wish people were less judgmental, but at the same time I dont care if people think Im weird. I think what I mean is theres no reason to mistreat weird people who do no harm to others.
So yeah if you call yourself an "anti" I'll assume youre spend too much time engaging in fandom discourse and you're the type of person to believe that fanart where two people are holding hands is the equivalent to drawing them fucking each other. Which I think is a very childish mindset to have and it's worrying that many adults think this way. I also think that as an adult they should be capable of blocking stuff they hate instead of constantly arguing with people online because at this point it's just mental torture.
The thing about internet safety I mentioned earlier, I'd say this is the one thing that I'll always prioritize discussing whenever proship discourse comes up.... To put it simply: filter and limit the visibility of your content, do not put triggering stuff in the main tags, stay in your own circles. Whether or not you believe fictional rape/pedophilia/etc is bad is irrelevant, my point is that these are objectively triggering topics and should be filtered just like how there are warnings for violence and blood even if it's not real.
"But it's the parents' responsibility to control what kids look at online, this has nothing to do with me!" and I agree with the parents being the ones Primarily responsible. However the reality is that children are online and there's nothing you can do to stop it from happening. Kids will also enter spaces theyre not allowed in, theyre children and children are rebellious especially teenagers, I was like this as a teenager too. You'd be lying if you said you were always obedient since childhood and never did anything you were told Not to do. And you can't really expect teenagers to always block and not interact if they see something triggering. It's your responsibility to block them if they interact with you, because what I see most of the time is adults bickering with teenagers who are uncomfortable, calling them "puriteens", putting them on blast and allowing other adults including NSFW accounts to dunk on them.
Humiliating and degrading teenagers does not "teach them a lesson", it only makes the teenager more stubborn and reactive. Adults must accept that kids will always find their way in there even if your content isnt easily accessible. So I think it's stupid to feel offended at a child because they got upset when they found upsetting content like how any normal child would react. Which is why I wish more adults would keep blocking without saying anything petty to provoke teenagers.
Before someone pancake-waffles me and says "so youre fine with antis doxxing people" no I do not support doxxing. Ive been doxxed so I know it sucks. However the only times Ive seen it go this far is after continuous arguing because nobody knows when to stop. Im not saying this applies all the time nor am I saying doxxing is fine, but there are ways to minimize this sort of outcome as much as possible. Both sides have doxxed people over petty arguments that couldve easily been avoided if they just blocked each other and moved on.
The topic above (internet safety) is probably the only thing related to this where Im actively telling others what they should be doing. It's not only teenagers who are triggered by depictions of pedophilia etc but also adults like myself. In my case Im old enough to block content I dislike without saying a word, however I cant help but think that there's not enough being done about filtering especially when I do not search for this type of content and I still see it all the time.
I also think it's important for me to mention that I have a very poor sense of morality. I do not have a personal moral code that I adhere to, and I mostly stick to the basic universal ones that make sense to me. So I will not discuss the "morals" of consuming this stuff because I am not adequate to share an opinion on this, and I know the most popular topic of discussion related to proship discourse is morality which I frankly find counterproductive. I dont understand why people should care so much if I find something morally correct or not, unless it's to make themselves feel better about having a "superior opinion" to mine. Though I will say that if a man tells me he's into rape "but only in fiction!" then I dont think it will stop me of imagining myself bashing his skull repeatedly with large rocks. Maybe Im too mistrustful of men in general.
Final point I want to clarify is that I am not trying to assert some sort of superiority over people by disliking both sides, like saying "Im not an anti or a proshipper Im a Normal person" or something like that, and Im not expressing a "neutral" stance on the topic of fiction's influence on reality either. There are topics like racism and orientalism in fiction that Im vocal about (which is expected since Im Algerian). I genuinely believe there are many things that are interesting to discuss and should be prioritized, but too many people are chronically online, subjective and defensive, at this point I dont even think it's accurate to say that disliking one side automatically means you support the other side regarding fiction. To me, "proship discourse" is not about the debate of the effects of fiction on reality, censorship in media, etc. It's about everything I described earlier that happens online.
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if you spent less energy on blocking people who did you no harm you would have been okay
i block people for many reasons, one of them just being annoying. and i see absolutely no problem with that. internet is a vast space, which mean even more annoying stuff and people. i have a very stressfull life, here is my little safe space, and if i have tools to hide and block any kind of annoyance, you bet i'll do it
i didn't argue with anyone, i didn't bully anyone, i didn't harass anyone. i simply silently blocked. if that bothers you, it's your problem not mine
i feel like just because i happen to make a lot of gifs on this site for more than a decade consistenly and made tons of gifs, and i made them from variety of fandoms, some people mistake me for some fandom blog. it's not. it's my PERSONAL page, diary if you want. i make those gifs (and always did) first and foremost for myself. if other people like it - great, but i don't make them for them or to be popular here or for notes or for something like that. and btw i do it for free and just share it here. but that doesn't mean i OWE you or any other person here anything
"who did you no harm" i didn't do them any harm either, i just blocked them without any argument even. or you think you or them somehow entitled to see and reblog my gifs??? like i'm some fucking faceless and emotionless, opinionless machine that just makes gifs for yall?!
edited: realized that "if you spent less energy on blocking people" comment was about my recent text post about my depression. well fuck you then
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Hey!
It'll be long post, so i understand if you decide to ignore it, sorry :)
You know, there were a lot of people that were convinced loumand kiss we saw in trailer was goodbye kiss, because of Louis' expression. I was one of them.
Turns out that it's NOT truth and everyone just accepted it and moved to talk how romantic it was and that apparently Louis just has this face when horny or whatever.
And I truly struggled to see it. And at first I felt incredibly guilty because I'm loustat shipper first, other ships appreciator second. I thought my mind doesn't let me see romance in other ship because I'm too loustat centric.
I tried to rewatch that scene and tried to brighten it up to see kiss and expression better (I'm sorry but while almost silhouette kiss is beautiful I'd prefer see character's expressions better in show like this, wish lighting was different)
But still! While during date Louis had more carefree and flirtatious expression, that kiss felt very off. I get that it's after talk about lestat but shouldn't he show more... Joy? Anticipation of more to come? Basically don't look like he does it because he HAS to.
So I thought, well, it CAN'T be jacob slacking, he's terrific at his job. And it can't be that I'm THAT biased, right?
So, let me tell you, I'm SO GLAD to found your post about this kiss! I saw too many people writing about Louis being fucked up to invite Armand to fuck after being threatened, that he loves them dangerous (he kinda does, but that's not the point), that he thinks only with dick, ignores red flags (again he does,but we talk about this particular moment) etc
He knows Armand is interested in him. He knows Armand has power. Armand technically didn't lay his hands on him but he COULD'VE and WOULD'VE if it's not for his affection to Louis.
I truly don't believe Louis viewed this as "I HAVE to kill Louis, you committed a crime, no hard feelings though, that's just my job! You know what?... You're cute so I'll let you go actually"
Maybe I give Louis too much credit but he's smarter than that. He also knows power play intimately, was on giving and receiving end countless times in his human and vampire life.
Add to it that tale Armand told about his old coven killing themselves when he actually threw them in fire. It was 100% to position himself as someone who has way less power over other vampires that he actually does. I don't believe coven can pressure Armand into ANYTHING. And glimpses of him abusing his power over Claudia prove it (CONSENT TO LOOK IN THE EYES? ARE YOU SERIOUS?)
And Louis was THERE to witness all this and I absolutely believe he noticed it. That scene with dreamstat where lestat says he's the only one who Louis can trust made me think Louis is not as blind to Armands red flags as he appears.
And what we know about ep4 confirms it. Lestats "HA!" in museum already indicates that Armand is telling some bullshit and Louis at least subconsciously doesn't believe it. There's also scene in park from teaser "I want you" "You sure about that?" Maybe it's misleading or maybe it goes like this, guess we'll see
I wrote so much, again, i'm sorry.i just wanted to say, I agree so much with your post, and I hope crazy people in fandom already blocked you so you don't get any hate for pointing out that consent under threat of potential death is not really THAT consensual. Hope it won't be repeat about people attacking you like for post about hate sex in ep6
All good. And I wasn't, and I have seen I wasn't the only one clocking in on things (just reblogged a post wrt that).
Jacob is too good an actor to not show the fitting emotion if it was meant to be something positive. But he didn't.
The show went dark, real fast. And they're about to go even darker. A lot.
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Going on anon to avoid getting flamed but yeah. If you *actively* identify as a proshipper or an anti I think you're like. WAY too internet poisoned, in the sense that you've built part of your identity around one of two Very Extreme but also Petty internet discourse.
I hang out with a lot of artists that could be considered "proshippers" bc we enjoy and make "glorified depictions of problematic stuff", some even having large patreons. The morality of the issue is whatever, the point I'm trying to make is... we don't even try to actively fight antis and don't label ourselves as proshippers, because that's just petty internet drama? When an anti DOES show up screaming in our replies/inbox, we do go "ugh antis are so annoying". but we're, like, adults with a job? and responsabilities? We just block them and move on. And yes, we all have "dead dove do not eat", "problematic content, go away if you don't like it" and "+18 only" in our descriptions, because we REALLY don't want to fight. We all just want to exist in peace, yknow?
Seriously, I think people should be more comfortable with the block button and stop treating it like a Nuke button where it's the worst offense you could do to someone.... I also think people shouldnt be offended if someone doesnt want to interact with them either, both of these things would solve most of the pointless drama I see online. If someone makes an effort to put all the warnings, keep children away and do not participate in pointless discourse or harass people then that's perfect. I'll come across a profile that warns people that theres problematic content, I'll think "damn I dont really wanna see that", so I block and move on with my day. Not only is it simple but it just makes the online experience way less miserable.
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