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#Hobi enlistment btb
kanmom51 · 1 year
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BTB Hobi Entrance Ceremony with BTS
cr./to the creators of the media used in this post.
I knew this would be landing today. No captions yet though.
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They were all keeping up a brave face but it was obvious that each and every one of them (that we saw) was deeply sad. Did I or did I not say NJ was crying?
The love they all feel for each other, all of them, and the love they all, each and every one of them have for Hobi, it's just beyond description. They are a family. A mostly functional non biological loving family.
As we know, they arrived one after the other, pretty much at the same time. We see JK and Tae behind him walk up to Hobi interact with him and then JM comes over complaining of a back ache.
Muscle memory kicks in, it's just such a natural thing for him to do - JM in pain, JK goes into carer mode, reaching out to JM.
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That hand.
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JM doesn't seem to notice, walks by JK and Tae straight to Hobi for a hug.
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A few seconds later JM turns to the person that gives him comfort, the person he gives comfort to, for this:
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And a big strong super tight hug.
Prey do tell me, what about that interaction warranted that hug exactly?
That hug. That tone they have with each other.
The others just doing their own thing, not bothered what so ever, while Jikook are being Jikook right beside them.
Same same.
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And it didn't end.
The camera panned out (or rather in, to Hobi and Tae's conversation/interaction) while they were still embraced. Still doing whatever they were up to. You can hear them in the background even though the cameraman decided enough is enough and better leave them out of frame at that point.
Ok, so listen up.
We know JK arrived the night before.
We know JK isn't wearing his CK jacket.
With Jikooks is it me is it you alcohol teasing going on there before that mighty hug, I kind of have a feeling the two were busy drinking together, not getting too much sleep, maybe leaving in a bit of a rush in the morning and being a little hung over, Mr. Jeon took the wrong jacket by mistake?
Hope he didn't get into trouble with CK, although with the success so far of his ambassadorship (shares prices going up, sales through the roof), I doubt they will be too bothered.
Just a theory here folks. Mostly unsubstantiated and can clearly be written into the next Twitter fanfic.
**Note to self: maybe I should start writing fanfics, or fiction in general, I might just have a knack for it...
But...
See, I'm not the only one that figures the two were drinking together...
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The rest of the story, yeah that's on me.
Fast forward a tiny little bit.
And then JM's all up in JK's face again.
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Yep, puffy red eyes confirmed.
The way JK just allows JM to do whatever he wants with him, lol.
I don't know if you noticed this, but a. most of the time that we did see them they were by each other's side, mostly glued together; and b. Much of the time they were off frame, and it felt intentional, probably because they didn't budge from each other's side.
The way all their faces lit up when Jin arrived.
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Sadly, they couldn't show Jin in the BTB. Which means folks, that we won't be getting to see Jin and Hobi in any future content that may or may not be created upon the enlistment of the next member.
Those final individual photos with Hobi.
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God, I'm going to miss Hobi so damn much.
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juliapark13 · 1 year
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I find it extremely funny how Tkkers are always like “TKK scares you” yet they are the ones who h@r@ss anyone that post or talk about Jikook. They are the one’s whining of ever Jikook interaction no matter how big or how small the interaction is. When Jikook rode on the ATV together in ITS2. Even though we did not see them in the actual episode and HopeKook also rode on the ATV together, Jikook is what bothered them. In the BTB, all JM did was give JK a hug and that made them call JM a a*user, say he is h@r@ssing JK and saying he was R wording JK. JM commented to JK live-streams like the other members did and yet JM cute little comments made Tkkers mad. They got mad a JM for donating to charity. They got mad at JM’s dad and sent him death threats for being supportive. Even when JK is not involved they still drag JM. He went to support Hobi at Lollapalooza and he got hate for that. He went to support Yoongi and he got hate for that. When they get TKK moments they STILL feel the need to flock to Jkkers comments and talk about it. For some people that are 100% sure TKK are dating and Jikook are fanservice, or are just brothers or are just friends (can’t stick to one narrative) they sure do get bothered by simplest Jikook interactions. Most Tkkers are straight teenagers we no idea on what an actual HEALTHY relationship looks like or straight adult woman with a bad love life. The amount of Tkkers on twitter I have seen that hate on JM are ran by women in their 50’s with children and/or grandchildren is so uncanny. Tkkers make homophobic comments about JM yet ship TKK. They make horrible comments about how feminine JM looks but yet draws Tae in their fanart that exact same way. I saw a Tkker comment on how JM needs to enlist so he can toughen up and become a “real” man.
It’s ok Tkkers we know you see how differently JK treats JM vs Tae. Did a whole livestream dedicated towards him but can’t even mention Jinny’s Kitchen. That is why y’all are so quick to throw JK away until he does something that y’all like. Y’all called him a liar on his birthday because he said that he did not see Tae after y’all thought Tae came back for JK’s birthday. When he didn’t y’all called JK a liar and some said that Tae was to tired that is why he did go see him. Yet he can fly home early to attend his friend’s movie premiere? JK is a puppet to Hybe until he does something with JK. Do y’all not hear how dumb y’all sound or is it that y’all just choose to ignore what is happening in reality because it messes up your fantasy? The issue is not that y’all ship TKK no one cares about that. The issue is you lots won’t even let JM and JK near each other without spewing the fanservice or hiding TKK narrative. If you all would ship TKK without hating on JM and Jikook then Vminkook as a whole would be getting hated it, but you lots just can’t except that JK actually likes JM and he does not hate him like y’all want him too. If you all accept that JK likes JM then you would have to except that JK made GCFT because he wanted to not because he was forced too. Y’all would have to accept that he did a whole live dedicated towards JM because he wanted to not because he was forced too. You would have to accept everything that JK did was on his own free will and not because the big bad company and JM forces him too. Then, after you accepted all of that you would be faced with the fact that since 2013-present day, you have hated on JM for absolutely no reason. Yet, because you don’t want to actually acknowledge that JK like JM and that you all hate JM for no reason, we all are stuck with some smelly ass flies that won’t go away be they don’t want their fantasies to be ruined. As I said before ship TKK we do not care but hating on JM and Jikook when it’s obvious that Tae and JK (especially JK) loves JM is what pisses us off. As I mentioned in my comment, you will find a hell of a lot more Jkkers posting and loving TKK then you will Tkkers posting and loving Jikook. Now ask yourself why…anon? Tkkers try extremely hard to make Jkkers seem like the villains when in reality I would everyone hates Tkkers. Why? Because you all token Stan any member to hate on JM which then ends up get the other members dragged.
My advice to Tkker (though they won’t listen) if ya leave JM and Jikook alone then TKK will be left alone. But for some weird reason, you all can’t do.m that. Y’all are that insecure of TKK not being real you have to hate JM and blame him for why TKK does not act like a couple.
They are mad every single time when they see jikook interact, because their imaginary ship is based on proving jikook isn’t real.
They say jikook is fanservice every single time because otherwise how would they explain everything? They know it.
They hate Jimin so much because he is a threat to their fantasy and they see Jungkook loves him.
If they were able to focus on their ship, there wouldn’t be any ship war. But that’s never gonna happen.
They surely are insecure and yes, they are also homophobic. Self-awareness doesn’t exist.
It’s so boring at this point.
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mrs-monaghan · 1 year
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what are all these dumb people talking about? jikook had literally seen each other the night before Hobi's enlistment. karmy translated the entire stuff they said to each other. even the room smelled like alcohol, they said too.
hugged like they haven't seen each other? did you all even watch the btb???
They watched. They watched alright. Its why they were so mad. Now they just acting like it didn't happen. But again, what's new
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unlyshedstar · 1 year
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Master List
Basic master list of posts and reblogs: Jikook No Closets In The Tattoo Shop, Apparently Jikook & Polyc - I Posted Too Soon [BIGHIT MUSIC] 2022 GLOBAL AUDITION - BTS - 23 July 2022 JM and JK when the lights are dimmed Xylitol “smile” season 2 Just A Nice Waiter in Malta Thinking What We All Think... BTB j-hope ‘Jack In The Box’ Listening Party Event Sketch Another oopsy Jikook moment? Not every single thing JK or JM do is about them as a couple Jikook Fanart on JKs Brothers Tagged Instagram Those JM and JK being ‘subtle’ moments Those JM and JK being ‘subtle’ moments - Part 2 Those JM and JK being ‘subtle’ moments - Part 3 Those JM and JK being ‘subtle’ moments - Part 4 I Got Tea Spilled On Me JikookVhope live 15 October 2022 Just for JM Jimin Jimin - the expert with the anniversary calculator JM Weverse live 18 September 2022 Set Me Free Pt 2 -  The comparison Set Me Free Pt 2 -  Enjoy it he tells us Like Crazy Choreography - I really love this interpretation Is letter a song for army? Letter - the lyrics that didn't make it Jimin W-live 4 April 2023 Jungkook JK’s camping Vlog JK's Weverse live 2 Feb 2023 JK and Vibe Jungkook 28 Feb 2023 JK's live 4 March 2023 1:47 am KST part 1 JK's live 4 March 1:47 am KST part 2 Jungkook 3 (or 4) Wlives on 14 March 2023 Jungkook & Calvin Klein -  A megastar, and they know it. Jungkook W-live 28 March 2023 BTS Do You Really Love BTS? Jack in The Box Listening Party - Love these photos SM interactions and not for Lollapalooza Enlistment and how it will affect each of the members BTB Hobi Entrance Ceremony with BTS
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theangryjikooker · 11 months
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TAJ, I’m so glad to see you back! I was curious if any of the Jikook moments from this past year have stood out to you, or if you had a favorite? Letter, the Jimin focused live, the Hobi enlistment btb ect (not even meaning in a romantic or shipping way, just in a general sense).
I would say the Jimin-focused live stood out above the rest. As far as I'm aware, none of the members have ever really spent an entire live essentially paying homage to another member. It sticks out for that reason and because there isn't a precedent for it.
But it is worth pointing out that Taehyung still has his album to release, as well as his promotions. I'm expecting Jungkook to show up for him, given the fact that it seems like they've been hanging out more recently, and also because they are the last two left. There's definitely a camaraderie to be had from that alone, if Jimin hasn't already enlisted by then.
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kanmom51 · 10 months
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The way JK just walks in and takes his natural place next to JM.
The way JK just takes his place next to JM, no visible exchange between them to start with in the moment - all when we know, we see, them interacting right through, close interactions, feels like the two weren't really apart for too long.
Kind of like when you are together with someone close, part ways for a short time and then get back together. No need for hellos and niceties, just taking your natural place by their side. You acknowledge each other's presence. It's enough. It's not the start of an interaction, it's just a natural continuation of one.
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Full clip here:
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As for Tae, he comes in and stands behind JM, it looks like the manager draws JM's attention to Tae behind him (this before JM can acknowledge JK by his side, which he does immediately after), he turns around and Tae opens his arms for a hug, JM going in for it.
Just thought I'd bring this post back.
From the interactions we saw during the concert Vmin seemed to be fine. The friendly hug, the catching up (JM showing Tae what seems to be his boxing knuckles) - oh how that moment must have burnt for some... I definitley don't think it's a rift or a quarrel or a friendship breakup. If they have been seeing less of each other it would be more so perhaps each busy with their own lives, relationships, workloads. You know, like real grownups in the grownups world, where we have good friends but don't get to see them as often because life and work get in the way. Also, you know, as that pesky thing called everyday life gets in the way, some friendships get stronger and some can go stagnant or fade away. I'm not saying that's the case with Vmin. But it is possible that both find it more important to spend the spare time they have with their significant others, now that they can, while they can and before they can't.
And to those that are even thinking of it, don't start with the comparisons to the Hobi enlistment BTB or hug. That was totally different. The setting was an emotional one. JM walking in, going to stand by the 2 people he needed to be with emotionally (for them and himself).
As for the dialogue there, it clearly proved that it wasn't a "I missed you because I haven't seen you for a long time" hug, and more like an "I'm kind of emotional and hung over from drinking with you all night" hug.
Ok then, now that this is done, on to a little admin.
I'm still having issues converting my clips and uploading them. I guess we'll just see as we go. Me probably uploading clips in separate posts in the next few days.
In the meantime thought, I'll leave you with this:
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Well, because!
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kanmom51 · 1 year
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Today we said goodbye to Hobi
See you soon I want to call it.
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Our ray of sunshine.
Joined his hyung enlisting to serve their country.
We all have our opinions about the MS. Most of you guys know mine on the matter.
But today isn't about that.
Today is about us being sad, missing that beautiful man and his beautiful smile.
Today is about Jin, NJ, JK, Tae, Yoongi and JM. Those that sent him off. And of them, those that are next to enlist.
Soon. Too soon.
Today is about us acknowledging how hard this was for them. All of them puffy eyed. NJ had clearly been crying. JK, who I thought would be falling apart looking like in the moment he was the one to comfort both NJ and Tae. Tae, who couldn't even face the camera in the second shot (look at JK's hand on Tae's shoulder in the one pic, and his hand over NJ's hand in the second). Yoongi not looking happy one bit. JM also trying to put on that brave face, lighten the mood. And Jin, who has gone through it already, there to support Hobi as well.
I guess we'll probably be getting the untranslated BTB by tomorrow already. 2 photos to go by and it feels to me like Jin, JM and JK were trying to support the others, each in their own way. I guess we'll see. Well, what they allow us to see.
Today is about their bonds. Each and every one of them and their very special bond with Hobi.
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And today is also about us crying and dealing and then getting a hold on ourselves and trying to be as optimistic as we can and start counting the days down for their return.
Guys, we have to go through this 4 or 5 more times (not 100% sure what the process is with Yoongi and the public service). We need to be strong and keep our chins up.
They told us Festa 2025. That's a date to look forward to, anticipate for. Not a promise but a hope.
Like our J-Hope.
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Jhope, we love you so so much and you are going to be missed so much.
Please be safe and be happy.
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kanmom51 · 1 year
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Jikook Other Moments
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GCFS
GCFS
GCFT, GCFS the likelihood of Jikook being just friends
SONGS
All of my life (Park Won) - Jungkook’s cover from 27 February 2018
Jungkook’s cover of Adam Levine’s Lost Stars
Is Magic Shop about Jimin
JK’s cover to ‘Only then’
JK’s Still with you (LINK NOT WORKING)
Just because - Only then again
Your Eyes Tell
Falling
Falling too
Jikook and Lauv’s Never not - JK’s cover included
Jikook and Charlie Puth’s We don’t talk anymore
We don’t talk anymore - Jikook
Jungkook and Hate everything
Stay alive
My You
BTS and Lauv - why wasn’t ‘Who’ promoted by BH
Okey guys, we can now reveal the big secret
Is letter a song for army?
Letter - the lyrics that didn't make it
Serendipity and Letter
Bringing this back
MVS
Fire MV the making of - Jikook
BTB Coldplay X BTS ‘My Universe’ MV Shoot
BTB ‘Yet To Come (The Most Beautiful Moment)’ MV Shoot Sketch - does this ring any bells?
Yes, this does look familiar
And just in case my previous point about this moment was not understood...
More Jikookery in the Yet to come MV shoot BTB
JM loves telling us JK is handsome
AIRPORT
Leaving for LA 17 November 2021
JM & JK at the airports (NY & Seoul) September 2021
One year ago...18 September 2021
JK and JM left in separate cars
Other moments
Jikook in London
Jikook in London 2
JM staring at JK
with JK it's a matter of control
Is Jungkook being himself most with Jimin
Catalyst explained
BTS do have different work schedules at times...
And yet again in unison
JK’s film dreams fulfilled?
BTB Bad decisions recording sketch
When Jikook are not sat together in lives
Jikook hesitation to touch
Jikook selfie
Jikook selfie 18 September 2021
They are happy
Jikook are not Romeo and Juliet (the tragedy)
Jungkook calling JM handsome
BTB 28 October 2021 - BTS visit to the UN
Love yourself 4 year anniversary
[BANGTAN BOMB] Meeting with Megan Thee Stallion - BTS - 8 November 2021
Jikook at the concert
Look familiar?
Jikook at the concert  Link 5; Link 6
Beautiful beach photo
JK is a romantic at heart
April fool’s 2022 from LV - enjoy while it lasts
JK being as bold as shit on his IG story 2022
JK has grown and matured so much
Are Jikook different now days?
JK IG story 29 April 2022
JK being JM’s copycat all the way
BTS Proof live photo sketch
Jikook at Hobi’s Jack in the box party
Big hit Global auditions 2022 (BTS) message
BTS message on DisneyPlusHotstar
Jack in the box party - BTB
More from the Jack in the box BTB
The way I see it...(photo folios)
Jikook at the white house - BTB
Happy Chuseok
Run BTS dance practice
BT21 have you ever seen something so cute?
Naver new article - Title look familiar?
JM now fulfilling the dreams of some super lucky fans
BTB Hobi Entrance Ceremony with BTS
BTB Hobi enlistment translation of JM-JK moment
BT21 Chimmy's red undies
Magnate cafe IG 26.4.2023
Time to wrap up and close shop
The Jikook/JK/JM allies
Letter again
Serendipity is now the preface and Letter is the forever
Did RM just show us he's working out with Jikook?
Dear.Army
Do I need to say anymore?
Once again they do this
Jikook June 2023 posts, Still with you and the numbers
Dear.Army again
JM playing the Guitar BTB
This happened
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kanmom51 · 1 year
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BTS Masterlist
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FESTAS
It’s been 9 years
BTS message to Army
BTS selfie collection 21/22
BTS dance record day 1
BTS dance record day 2
BTS dance record day 3
BTS dance record day 4
BTS dance record day 4 (2)
BTS dance record day 5
Festa dinner 14 June 2022
Festa dinner - what now?
PHOTOSHOOTS
2022 BTS 달마중 [DALMAJUNG] Preview
10 Star photoshoot making
Us ourselves and BTS ‘We”
Merry Christmas from BTS over the years
Photos
EVENTS
BTS honorary ambassadors for Busan Expo 2030
BTB BTS Visited the White House to Discuss Anti-Asian Hate Crimes
BTS Oscars 2022
BTS Grammy’s 2019, 2020, 2022
OMG OMG OMG OMG
Yus
BTS on Twitter
18 April 2023 Hobi enlistment
Today we said goodbye to Hobi
PROOF MASTERLIST
A born singer
Yet to come + For youth
Still with you acapella
BTS Yet to come - the cinematic parallels
Proof ot7 Vlive - RM & V and their spoilers
Proof 2 new songs on CD 3
Proof live
BTS Yet To Come (The Most Beautiful Moment) MV Photo Sketch
Mnet comeback 16 June 2022
Yet to come - M countdown
For youth - M countdown
BTS Inkigayo 19 June 2022
Final ending fairies
Members reactions to JM’s ending fairy
BTS Proof live photo sketch
TMA 2021 BTS full performance
Wait, there was a grand prize
Run BTS dance practice
More from Run BTS dance practice
JIN
Jin birthday surprise 10 Dec 2015 - Tae eureka moment
Jin being adorable
when Jin knows he’s cute
Jin concert day 4 - happy birthday
A WTF Jin moment
Oh Jin baby
JM and JK starring in Jin’s IG post 12 July 2022
1 April 2023
Jin Weverse 17 April 2023
JHOPE
Why is Hobi ignored
Happy birthday Hobi - our ray of sunshine
Jhope ‘MORE’ MV Shoot Sketch BTB
Jhope W Korea
W Korea Hobi B-side
Jhope W Korea more photos
Equal signs - Jack in the box
W Korea missing pics from Hobi’s party
Hobi Jack in the box party W Korea photos
I just love Hobi
Me Myself & I J-Hope "All New Hope" silhouette photos
Me Myself & J-Hope “All New Hope” clip
Me Myself & J-Hope “All New Hope” photos 1
Me Myself & J-Hope “All New Hope” photos 2
Hobi’s birthday 18 Feb 2023
Hobi birthday live
Jhope live 26 Feb 2023
Jhope On the street photo sketch
Jihope, Sope and Vhope
Jhope live 26 Feb 2023
Jhope Weverse 10 April 2023
Hobi IG & Weverse 17 April 2023
Hobi's message - 7 May 2023
Jhope 24 May 2023
Jhope 16 August 2023
Hobi
Taehyung
Taenni soft going public
Tae looks happy
More about Paris
More Taenni
Again about Tae
FRIENDSHIP TATTOOS
PolyC IG story 13 November 2022
BTS friendship tattoos
Friendship tattoo
Poly C’s autograph wall
FUNNY
That that - Run BTS version
BTS members fathering styles, lol
Bangtan Bomb 29 Aug 2021 - SBS 2020 performance Link 2;
BTS investment club
OTHER
BTS’s Dynamite makes it’s way into Rolling Stones list of top 500 songs of all times.
The Truth Untold - Fukuoka Dome Japan
Late late show announcement
Leaving for LV
Bangtan bomb Feb 2015
I'm crying
D-day final
Happy birthday RM 2023
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mrs-monaghan · 1 year
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We haven’t seen Jimin hangout with ANYONE in public in over half a year now! These ‘why do we see tkk hangout but not jkk’ people are so infuriatingly dumb because it’s very obvious why that is? You mean, the member who has been working nonstop and only goes home to eat and sleep isn’t wanting to go out bowling and skiing? And the two members who have been working the least, who are out socializing with many different friends, sometimes hangout together? Like? How is that so confusing to people? Jimin sees the members who are at the company more because that’s literally where he’s at working, and Jungkook sees the member who is out socializing more because they literally have the most free time, it’s not super deep. With taekook having similar interests, being around the same age, being friends and having free time, it would be weird if they DIDNT hang out some during CH2. And jkk focusing on different things for CH2 isn’t a big deal because they’re literally two different individuals with different needs and things they want to work on. Jimin wanted to tell his story and process his pandemic emotions with FACE, and he wants to work to improve various aspects of himself so he can return stronger for the team (his own words!). Jungkook has been working nonstop since he was a teenager and wanted a break to do somewhat normal twenty something things. He’s been hanging out a lot with ALL of his friends, it’s just that most of those friendships aren’t as public as Tae and Wooga Squad. And how is Jungkook supposed to hangout with Jimin’s friends when JIMIN isn’t even hanging out with Jimin’s friends? Oh but wait, JK actually just WAS with one of Jimin’s friends, but that doesn’t count for some reason right? Because that friendship isn’t as publicized and things jkk do are always downplayed.
And the people SO confident that jikook never see each other because of throwaway comments here and there need to let go of their god complexes. I bet Letter took them by surprise right? Because obviously Jikook had to meet up to talk and record it, but according to them, if Jikook haven’t explicitly said they’ve seen each other, it doesn’t count. Because they seem to think jikook would 100% let us know every time they meet up or talk. Yet… they still haven’t mentioned how Letter came about. And Taehyung casually mentioned Jimin skipped their gym date, and only thought to mention it because of someone’s ‘summoning Park Jimin’ comment on his live. Well, I bet them randomly working out together isn’t even out of the norm. Why is that so hard for people to imagine?
If you looked only at the picture from Hobi enlisting it would fit the narrative that taekook are distant from Jimin. Then you watch the actual btb and you see JK IMMEDIATELY reach out for Jimin when he arrives, and then the hug (with JK smiling so hard) and then you see him hover around Jimin the entire time, as well as vmin in the background chatting and also standing next to each other, and there you go. You realize how incredibly stupid it is to put such great importance on a singular picture when we barely see even 1% of their lives (and I won’t even go into the conversation that implies they might have had drinks the night before because it doesn’t even matter). EVERY single time we have seen Jikook together or interact they have been more than fine and extraordinarily cute (TMAs, Busan Concert + practice, Hobi enlistment, comments during lives, Run episodes, Birthday content, Jungkook’s smiles marathoning Jimin content ect). They don’t owe anyone visibility, and at this point if you think they’re distant you’re just choosing to believe that because you want to or you’re insecure and selfish for content. Idk if they’re together romantically I just know they love each other a lot in a unique way and that even during this ‘distant era’ they’ve done so many loud things exclusively for each other that they haven’t done for anyone else. If you think bowling with friends is somehow more indicative of a romantic relationship than a thirst trap, birthdays together, and an entire focused marathon then idk what to say. Even Taehyung randomly posted jikook jikook-ing for no reason on Hobi’s birthday, but I bet they burned that from their memory. And just tossing this out in case it happens bc I already see people talking about it, but if JK ends up doing another member focused live, he still did it for Jimin first when he’s had every opportunity to do so for the other members. Okay, god sorry, I’m just so sick of seeing that argument.
Ugh, sorry, one last thing. Thinking people are dating ONLY based on proximity and visibility is so incredibly stupid. People legitimately thinking yoonmin are a thing because they dropped their albums at the same time and decided to do some promotions together are ridiculous. There is literally zero logic in that. Same as thinking that means they’re suddenly somehow closer than other duos . Why, because they had March album releases? Do they hear themselves? Also putting so much importance on CH2 is really dumb. CH2 is a temporary in-between period. CH3 is obviously the end goal if we take them by their word and how often they talk about it. They all have things they want or need to do right now, but CH3 is what they’re working so hard towards and where they want to be most, NOT CH2 (by their own words!).
If you disagree with any of this;
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