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findafight · 10 months

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It is tiring to be regarded as a 'homophobe' when you claim to not like a queer ship or say you do not think a queer ship is going to be canon & should not go canon. ST fandom has this type of fans especially Bylers and recently Ronancers. Sorry that I do not think Byler has a chance of being wrapped up in a nice way when the writers actively refused to even breakup Mileven in this season and intentionally added a confession scene on the show from Mike to El. We literally have 1 season left with everything else going on in a limited time frame but I am expected to be okay with the possible resolution of this whole thing, and should expect a nice wrap up where we supposedly will see Mileven break up, Mike and El moving on from each other, there will be a time for them to adjust to that, for Mike to consider dating Will HECK even for Will to consider confessing and dating Mike, for the writers to make that all believable to the audience in a nice way within the narrative.... and I am expected to like Ronance when Stobin is one of the most important platonic relationships on the show and we canonically know Nancy and Steve's break up was bad, and that Steve still has feelings for Nancy. I want to see representation, I really do but it feels like the fandom itself is bending any logic and sensibility to make a ship seem reasonable and make sense within the narrative... when it really does not.

God. Yeah. Like sure queer people can have internalized homophobia or intra community basis (like bi/a/trans phobia) etc but to say someone's a bigot just because they don't like the a fictional ship, or even that they just don't think it will be canon, is just silly and causing problems on purpose.

The intense blr shippers have really turned me off the ship, honestly. I have a few asks from them saved as drafts just to get them out of my inbox, and they're saying the same as others "we're fighting homophobia" "you're just as bad as people saying why don't we shut up about blr and ship mlvn if you don't think this has been part of a grand and epic master plan for the greatest romance ever" as well as just not understanding what the very specific phenomena of queerbaiting is, all telling me I don't belong in the ship because I don't ship it correctly. So. Makes me feel bad and really disappointed. People who ship mlvn (which my original post was also tagged, because it discusses them too) DIDNT come to my inbox and call me names or a fake shipper when I said I thought they should break up. Make of that what you will.

As much as Will and Mike getting together would mean to people, putting that much emotional weight and expectation and emphasis on a single aspect of a show, a single ship, is not healthy. It also, if it does happen, will not be the epic romance planned from the start they think it is. (We remember tjlc, right?? RIGHT??) If it happens it will possibly be slap dash and rushed, because you're right. There's a lot happening, the show struggles with ending/starting romances, and they are NOT the only characters that matter. The breathing room required for both Mike and El AND the audience to make the breakup feel real and that enough time has passed to not make Mike look like an asshole for immediately dating his ex's brother (and for Will not to look like an ass for dating his sister's ex?!?) Is now insufficient given how short the seasons are, and as you said, they should've broken up in S4 to pull that off.

And then the fandom would likely feel a bit cheated after building it up so much in their heads, only for it to be a bit of a flop. But I guess a lot of people don't mind how Nancy and Jonathan got together, so with the way some of the people in my inbox were talking about El then it could be like that too. Just. Not giving a shit if someone, a character I personally love, was really hurt and betrayed by her recently ex boyfriend and her BROTHER.

Pretending it was all fine because romantic love is the most important thing ever to them I guess. When it's not, especially in the show! Non romantic bonds are so important to these characters! It would just ruin it for me, because what I was originally saying was that Will, Mike, and El all mean so much to each other and actively try to not hurt one another (even if the do accidentally or end up hurting themselves) and that, because Will and El are siblings now, Will might think twice about dating Mike so soon after he broke up with El. It would make them look cold hearted and selfish tbh. That's why a good ending would be Will feeling comfortable enough to come out, and being accepted by his friends. (All of them not just Mike) and that final emphasis on the Party as a whole rather than individual Romo relationships.

It's actually very important to consider other people's feelings in everyday life, I think. Sure, ultimately they shouldn't dictate all your actions, but there will be consequences for some of them. They can lose friendships, or other relationships. It can also make a character look REALLY BAD.

For rnce, people go on about how Robin absolutely does not need to consider Steve's feelings in pursuing a girl. (Ignoring other issues people have with the ship that have nothing to do with Steve, lol) And sure. Okay. For every girl but the one that broke his heart, cheated on him, and who he still has feelings for that Robin herself encouraged. People are out here saying they could be endgame without completely ruining stobin's friendship like huh??? Do they understand Robin "what if we just combined" Buckley? Do they not care about the most important relationship in her life? Do they not care about her beyond how she can hype up Nancy instead of one of those icky boys?

A problem I have with rnce is that a lot of the writing saying it could be canon (which, lbr, it won't be. While I think blr may be canon just in a kind of disappointing way, I don't think there's any chance of rnce happening, especially with Vickie right there blushing and flirting with Robin) only focuses on how it would be good for Nancy, or if it's trying to make it seem good for Robin ignores their personalities and other relationships. Like Nancy isn't annoyed by Robin until Robin's speech gets them into Penherst, or that Nancy wasn't dismissive of Robin's ideas, and Robin wasn't clearly nervous and apologizing for being annoying in order to get Nancy to like her (tbh I think Nancy should have been the one pursuing a friendship with Robin instead of the other way around but alas). Tbh I could go on about how Nancy and her relationships and her needs/wants inside those are often misdirected? Misidentified? By fandom, and how that feeds into Robin being reduced to someone who supports Nancy (which, if people complain about Robin considering her bffs feelings about her dating someone, shouldn't they complain about her becoming a glorified cheerleader for Nancy...oh. it's because it's romantic. And some parts of this fandom value that most.) In rnce, which strips Robin of her personality and makes it boring. But this is already long haha (Not to mention it'd be super weird for Nancy to be dating her ex she cheated on and never actually told she cheated on him's best friend. Awkward!!)

I used to not mind rnce that much, tbh. I didn't get it and did think it was weird but the art was cute! And now it's sort of an alarm bells for people being weird about stobin.

Steve and Robin's relationship, like so many platonic relationships but more glaring with just how obsessed with each other they are, is often devalued by the fandom by virtue of the idea that a romantic partner needs/should be someone's number 1. Even though those two want to combine, and are seen taking active roles in trying to get them a romantic relationship, and are really the first person the other felt they could be completely themself around. They're the most important person to the other, regardless of their romantic relationship status.

#stranger things #mike wheeler #will byers #robin buckely #nancy wheeler #steve Harrington #el hopper #stranger things meta #findaanswers #anonasaurus #fandom wank #kind of?#finda's rambles #anti ronance

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hawkinsschoolcounselor · 2 years

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I know people get freaked out by leaks from people who have been right before, myself included, so let’s pretend they’re true for a second and that mike confesses to el (apparently while she fights vecna). The same person said the cabin stuff is the final setting for the cali group + el. So after seeing the confession, most likely in the presence of will where we get his reaction, and another scene where they connect in the pizza van? It looks like will confesses to mike at the end. S5 setup?

I don't really want to get into the leaks, but my understanding is that this person previously claimed that the cabin wouldn't be a part of the season until we suddenly knew it was. It seems like they just keep changing what they say as other people find information in order to look right.

Anyway, as for season 5 and the potential for Byler. If they do indeed have Mike give some monologue proclaiming his love for El, and then have Will confess with Mike gently letting him down, then I honestly wouldn't accept season 5 Byler. I'd be right there with the Mileven fans who would, rightfully in my opinion, be accusing the Duffers of forcing it.

Up through the end of volume 2, Mike and El's relationship had been portrayed as bad. Right before El leaves, we're able to see how bad it is. El is lying left and right, and Mike can't even tell her he loved her. They're both being phony in different ways. It makes sense for them to break up.

The supposed journeys for them are that El will learn to see herself as a person, rather than some idealized superhero, and that Mike figures out who he is and who he loves, gaining the courage to say how he really feels. Both of these things seem incompatible with their relationship.

So, if the big resolution is that El figures out who she is, but still wants Mike's love, while Mike comes to learn he loves El and isn't afraid to say it (for some reason), then the matter of their relationship should be settled. Done. Case closed. Changing it next season would make their arcs this season a waste as they would actually not have grown at all.

A season 5 Byler setup is something that can happen, but not if Mike tells El he loves her, and she accepts it as genuine. Fortunately, such an outcome would be very bad writing, as they'd give characters arcs that end up exactly where they started.

#stranger things 4 #byler

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strangertheories · 2 years

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Hi! First of all: Love your theories and analysis of ST! :) So, I have something I wanted to see your take on. Ever since volume 2, I've been wondering about the probability of Byler being canon or not, but most of all, I've been thinking about Mike's character and how he has been written in s4 especially. First I need to say that I didn't come from any particular biased (or too heavily invested) point before watching volume 2 'cause I don't ship Byler or Mileven, but as a regular fan of the show I always felt that Will was gay (that point has been clear since s3 for me), and after paying closer attention to Mike's character in volume 1, I felt for sure that he was being written as queer coded/ struggling with his sexuality. There are plenty of analysis about this online (some of which I think are reaching a little bit, while others I definitely agree with), but seeing as the show went with the whole I love you declaration / motivational coach speech from Mike to El (which to me kinda cements that Mileven will probably be the endgame tbh); what are your thoughts on the queer coding of Mike and his weirdness towards Will and just his weirdness in general? I'm so conflicted right now, 'cause to me it just doesn't make sense to build this up and not offer it any pay-off. Could you maybe help rationalize this? 'Cause something feels off with the way he was written when comparing vol1 to vol2. TLDR: Is Mike a closeted gay or is he just a lousy friend? What do you think were the Duffers' intentions with his character...?

First of all, I'm glad you like my posts! (: Second of all, it really depends on the direction they take Byler in during S5. I think a lot more people thought Mike was queer after Volume 1 and that can be seen by the influx of followers in the Byler tag. His inability to say that he loves Eleven despite the fact he was able to say it before combined with the way he was acting about Will led a lot of people to think he's actually interested in Will. It seriously makes so much sense for his character for him to be gay and if it turns out he is, that'll be some amazing writing and foreshadowing and some of the best initially subtle queer rep ever.

But I'm really conflicted on canon Byler. I don't want to be a party pooper, but I also don't want to give false hope and I'm going to say I'm skeptical of it, but I really hope to be proven wrong. Volume 2 felt like the perfect opportunity to start making Byler canon but they didn't go down that route and I feel like there's only so much milkvan that I can wave away as platonic. If it happened now, it would feel a bit rushed and fan service-y to me. I will continue to make Byler theories and try to bring some hope to people because I believe it can happen, but I'm also not going to lie about how I feel. I have the disappointed but not surprised outlook on Byler, as in it's a missed opportunity if they don't do it and a shame for the show, but it's not shocking.

So that leaves us with two possibilities. One and the one I prefer: Mike is gay and repressing his feelings for Will by projecting them onto Eleven like Will pretending Eleven asked for stuff but he is starting to work this out so he pushes Will away with the comments like it's not my fault you don't like girls. Two: after S2 without the will they won't they aspect to Mike and Eleven's relationship, the writers didn't know what to do with them so they created random conflicts and breakups so we could have an emotional moment at the end of each season with them. They wanted Mike's friendship with Will to be challenged by the relationship to show Mike is growing up and moving on but Will can't because of his sexuality and because of the loss of his childhood.

I don't think the second option is inherently bad but they've not written it like that. It makes Mike seem like he doesn't love Eleven and that he's an awful friend to Will and a lot of the Mike hate is a response to this poor writing. The actions are very realistic for a teenage boy so I get they don't have to justify it but if you see Mike in the earlier seasons and just how loyal he is, I'm not sure that's something that goes away with puberty. So either they're working towards the goal of Mike being gay and having a big realization coming out arc in S5 or they tried to write conflict into his relationships and it didn't click with a lot of the audience.

But don't lose hope because of that! It does make a ton of sense for Mike to be gay and he's clearly very queer coded. There's a reason so many people cling on to that aspect of him. So if the writers make Byler requited, it does explain a lot of stuff and a lot of analyses are super convincing so who knows. But it could also be weird relationship writing, I'm not going to lie.

Hopefully this post is ok! I'm not trying to be controversial but this is my account created for sharing my opinions on a show I love so I'm not going to pretend that there is a possibility Byler won't be canon although equally there is a possibility that it will be. Thanks for the ask and the compliment :D

#stranger things #byler #mike wheeler #mike wheeler is gay #anti mileven #st4 #st5 #st5 speculation #st5 theory

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itsonlystrange · 3 years

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So, after reading @hawkinsschoolcounselor latest post, I went into the comments and, boy- they were, well. They were not great. I mean I guess I laid this onto myself but, anyways, I’m going to be answering this comment right here:

This is ALL for fun! It’s all a bunch of light hearted love, but this comment REALLY ticked me the wrong way.

For starters: There’s always been this trope in media of “one is enough.” Or “we have enough representation!” And it’s VERY prevelant in tv shows. The theory that “oh! There’s already one gay character, that’s enough for you, right?” Is sh!tty. It’s horrible.

Think of it this way: if there are 200 white sheep in a room, and then the shepherd brings in one black sheep, do you think that would suffice the other black sheep from the other herds? Do you think that would ‘hold them over’? I mean imagine being a black sheep in a crowd of 200 other white sheep, you’d feel alone. Okay, so now pretend there is a tv show, and this black sheep is watching that tv show, and of course, all the actors in the tv show are WHITE SHEEP. So then, in season 3 of Sheeper Things, they FINALLY introduce a black sheep, and of course the black sheep is happy, but still, they can’t help but realize that all of the white sheep are still there and overcome that small black sheep by a LOT!

I’m assuming that comment was made by someone straight, as they clearly don’t grip representation. Also, I’m assuming that person is slightly homophobic, just by the way they phrased it. It seems odd, I mean, what’s the issue with having one more gay character?

Well apparently, in their minds, Will being able to overcome his childhood is much more effective then Will being gay- so.

Let me lay it out for you:

Surprise! You can be gay AND want to hold onto your childhood! And, there are already so many other characters that could have a lovely arc of learning to accept themselves and learning to be their true selves away from societies norms *cough* mike *cough* Lucas *cough* but of course, they want to make WILL the one who gets this arc because if Will was gay that means he has a better chance of getting with Mike! (This was under a Mileven video btw) so they want him to be canonically straight so there is no chance Mike and Will can be endgame!

Now second: 90% of the comments under this video are people saying they think he’s asexual.

1. You can be gay AND asexual

2. Asexuality is the feeling of not being sexually attracted to anyone. YOU CAN BE ROMANTICALLY ATTRACTED TO PEOPLE IF YOURE ASEXUAL.

3. Will is fourteen! And if we’re using the logic of “oh he hasn’t wanted to kiss anyone so he’s asexual!” Then shouldn’t Dustin be asexual too?-

4. WILL IS FOURTEEN! Just because he doesn’t want to get down and dirty at that (very young age!) DOESNT mean that he doesn’t like sexual attraction at all. It’s kind of insane how people are seriously making these assumptions over a 14 year old child, some people like to wait, and that’s fine!

5. If the people in the comments meant aromantic, there really isn’t anything in the show that proves that he doesn’t like anyone, period. I think partially it’s heteronormativity and people not wanting to see the fact that Will clearly has a crush on mike, or had one in the past. The script even went as far as saying “But his eyes aren’t on the cute girl, they’re on - - Mike.”

Why do you think the script would put that in if there wasn’t something there, unrequited or not? Personally, I think that a lot of people don’t want to accept the fact that Will could have a crush on Mike as that would destruct their heteronormative bubble. They don’t want the main boy in the show to be gay because it disrupts the balance in their life. And it makes the chances of mike and Will ending up together being strong.

6. Saying “you have one gay character, that’s enough representation!” Is BULL. SH!T. There will NEVER be enough representation in the media for the lgbtq+ community. Ever. Even when we keep trying, there will always be something. Whether the show being cancelled or the one gay character dying, representation in the media for minorities are slim, but ESPECIALLY for the lgbtq+ community.

We are all VERY proud of Maya and Robin. We love Robin, but that doesn’t mean the Duffers just get to sit back and be like “oh, we already have one gay character, we don’t need more.” Like, what? That’s not how this works. Representation doesn’t just get to stop after the heterosexuals deem us to have “enough gay characters” or “if you add too many gay characters it’d get unrealistic” no. We’ve (me being a bisexual) have went through YEARS AND YEARS of ZERO representation. ZERO. While the hets always got their happily ever after love story, we WAITED.

We love Robin, but that doesn’t mean they can just halt Will’s arc since season one because you deem the representation to be enough.

This isn’t apples and oranges. Will can be gay AND not want to grow up. It isn’t always just black and white.

Maybe it’s the people who refuse to see the way Will looks at Mike, and just takes that as “2 bros looking at bros”, but there is very clearly something under the surface there.

since season ONE they have built Will up to be gay. Since the first episode.

Put it this way. Joyce used the term “f*g” in episode one. Why do you think they would use a slur like that If it weren’t going to go somewhere. What was the point of using a slur to describe Will in season one, or to Troy and James literally tormenting the Party for Will being gay almost all of season one. What was the point of that if that wasn’t going to go anywhere?

I can GUARANTEE that If Mike promised El that he’d go crazy together with HER instead of Will, the milevens would eat that up and call it “romantic!” However, because it’s just two boys, it’s totally platonic, right? It’s totally just two bros being bros.

If Mike held el’s hand like that and said “we won’t let him.” To el instead of Will, milevens would EAT THAT UP. They’d say that was the most romantic sh!t in the show.

If Mike told El that meeting her was the best thing he’d ever done, MILEVENS WOULD EAT THAT UP. They’d call it the most romantic thing of the century. It’d be on ever fan accounts Instagram pages. It’d be in all of the bios. But of course, because it’s two boys, it HAS to be platonic.

A lot of times milevens excuses for things are “well mike said he loved her so it’s end game”

Stancy, anyone?

Or Mike said “you’re the most important thing in the world to me.”

In the most DRY way possible. If Mike said that to Will in that way, EVEN I WOULDNT BELIEVE HE WAS TELLING THE TRUTH.

I mean the way Mike said that line clearly shows that el isn’t the most important thing in the world to him. There’s something underlying there. Like I said, that line was DRY. There was no emotion behind it. He was just saying that to get El to shut up, to get El to forgive him, so they could move on.

If Mike had said “you’re the most important thing in the world to me” to WILL like that instead of El, I wouldn’t have believed it either. And I bet that If that was the case the milevens would say “Mike doesn’t really love Will! That line was so dry!” But because it’s El and Mike, they say that’s the cutest thing since sliced bread.

Again, I have zero issues with Milevens, it’s only the toxic ones like the comment above that get to me.

Will has been set up to be gay from DAY ONE. The duffers have studied film for YEARS. Do you seriously think they’d let these all be coincidences? Do you seriously think that after writing season two NOBODY said, “hey, that’s a little gay.”

One scene is fine. If we only had gotten crazy together, yeah, I don’t think I would have thought it to be canon. But it’s the fact that they wrote in OVER 10 QUEER CODED ROMANTIC SCENES BETWEEN MIKE IN WILL, JUST IN SEASON TWO.

You can’t make that up! That cannot be an accident!

They’ve said over and over that everything they do, every song they play, every outfit the characters wear, is intentional. It’s all there for a reason.

Finn and Noah had to read these scripts, rehearse them, and then spent hours filming them. Do you seriously think it wouldn’t have cross their minds that “Hey! That’s a little weird Mr Duffer.”

That’s mostly because Finn and Noah probably already know where the show is headed.

If your only source of Mileven evidence is that Millie has said that they should get married and that they kissed in the end, then, I have some news to break.

Obviously, if anything were to happen in season 4 with Mileven not being end game, Millie couldn’t just say that. Finn couldn’t just say that. It’s their jobs to keep the fans intrigued and on their toes.

David knew he wasn’t really dead but he still had to pretend in interview after interview that Hopper was indeed dead. And he played it off pretty well.

Millie knew El wasn’t really dead after the season one finale yet she still had to play it off like El was.

So obviously, they can’t just outright say “Mileven isn’t end game!”

I mean,,, I’m sure they’d get fired for it.

So, we really shouldn’t pay attention to what the cast says in interviews, and we shouldn’t take that as canon, either. Their job is to subvert our expectations for the show, and they’re doing it well.

TL;DR:

Will can be gay and also have an arc where he doesn’t want to grow up and where he can learn to be his authentic self. The interviews the ST cast do should not be taken as canon as their jobs as actors are to keep us on our toes and subvert our expectations. Byler has a lot of proof and has a large chance of being canon, and most milevens don’t want to believe Will is gay because that means Will would have a larger chance of getting with Mike. The lgbtq+ community still need representation regardless of Robin and just because we got one lesbian does not mean the duffers can sit back and go back to their only heterosexual couples and ideas.

Byler is end game :)

@kaypeace21 @strangertheory @stranger-analysis @willthecleric (opinions?)

#stranger things #byler #mike wheeler #stranger things 4 #st4 #will byers #byler theory

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kaypeace21 · 3 years

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can you maybe stop telling people what they ship and what they don’t ship.. i swear you’re so fucking stubborn. and if you wanna defend mike so damn much then do it cause i bet more then half your followers hate him. it’s the way you clearly don’t see how many bylers hate mike and love will do you SEE the problem here??

This is the 5th anon message (in 1 day) you sent me.and you’re not stubborn? I’m not the one who has sent 5 anon messages in a row? Why don’t you just chill out and ignore me. You’re this pissed cause I said your hate to Max was unjustified. I kindly pointed out max didn’t make El spy on Mike - like you claimed . El spied on mike in s2 - before she even met Max. Then you got infuriated that I pointed out that all the flaws you claimed were about the elmax friendship were actually just flaws with mileven. Some of you hate on Max just cause you saw her as a hindrance to Mileven. Then in the second message you got pissed and brought up byler (which I didn’t even bring up in the first post!) Cause you just ... wanted to fight about byler despite totally being a byler shipper? Specifically said if mike was actually gay and dated el before he realized he’d be “an ass”. And if el and mike were confused about thinking they loved eachother when they didn’t “they’d be the worst characters ever.” Then brought up Will being bad cause he called El stupid (which was projection cause right after that he called himself stupid 4x). 3rd message went on a tangent about how much better and nicer mileven shippers are and that you ship both byler and mileven. And 4th message just go on about how Will was horrible to El, and max did horrible things in s3 , and that bylers hate on mike all the time , and elmax sucks. And now this. Yes you totally ship byler and aren’t just a mileven who got pissed that my 1st comment criticized your ship . So then in the second message brought up byler randomly to try and critique it. And just got pissy when called out as pretending to be a byler shipper and not getting the answers you wanted 😂 you can ship mileven. I’m not stopping you .

Also , I’ve constantly defended mike. And called out bylers for the hating him in the past. I literally defended mike when you claimed him being gay and dating el before hand would make him “awful”. You clearly don’t follow me and probably just believe all the lies mileven shippers say about me on twitter 🙄 . I’ve even told other bylers that the way Mike treated El was worse than Will. At least mike apologized to Will. Mike never apologized for lying- to El. And I still said that mike hate is unjustified countless times (cause he’s a kid)! Kids make mistakes! And especially cause I explained Mike saying (In the garage) “ it’s not my fault you don’t like girls “ was projecting his own gay feelings on to Will. Similar to how Will (in the garage) saying El was “stupid” was projecting his own feelings - why Will called himself “stupid” (4x at castle byers) after their fight in the garage and this comment about El. But you get angry at the concept of byler / projection so... that won’t help.

Past comments:

Part 1 (their first Max message/my response ) part 2 (second message/ my response ) part 3 (comments 3-4) . In this annoying ass saga 😂

Now please - move on . I only didn’t block you to prove how unhinged milevens get when you don’t block them . Look how angry you’ve gotten . This bylers is why you have block milevens -they just don’t give up and get angrier and angrier 😅

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Update: 6th message

I said for you to leave me alone. Not mike. How was that not clear? Also he’s a fictional character- what are you talking about?Oh my god .😅 You can do whatever you want on your own blog-just stop spamming me.

Mileven fan base (who are predominantly straight) use homophobic talking points and slurs to discredit byler / queer st fans . Many of us have gotten messages calling us the f and d word. Then milevens constantly private message bylers ,minding their own business, and call bylers “stupid” or “delusional “ ( or straight up sending de*th t#reats) . ( When these bylers are in their own tags -minding their own business- and don’t cross tag mileven at all ) . Bylers rarely go on to mileven posts that gush about mileven and then make jokes about how horrible the ship is and how delusional it’s shippers are (in said mileven post). Milevens do that all the time - they’ll go to a random byler post , only tagged byler , and make such comments about the byler ship/shippers . They also personally insult people for shipping byler and not mileven. Like me. Many mileven anons sent me messages making fun of my autism cause I shipped byler and said I’m not allowed to talk about byler /analyze the show cause I’m autistic and incapable of providing anything meaningful to the fandom because of my autism(all while hypocrically saying it’s ableist for anyone to think El isn’t ready to date yet). And bylers have the audacity... to in turn!!! Not like your ship and critique the issues with the (fictional) pairing using canon evidence in the show . And rarely send any direct messages/personal attacks to people who ship mileven . We criticize a ship - milevens directly message and attack the opposing shippers . There’s a difference between saying In the byler tag “mileven (the ship) is bad” or even an offensive blanket statement like “mileven shippers are blank” vs a person directly messaging a random individual who ships mileven and saying “you’re stupid for shipping mileven.bla bla.” A lot of the mileven fandom doesn’t seem to know the obvious difference when playing the victim. 🙄

And now you say byler is shipped just cause it’s “2 hot boys.” Which is yet another anti byler/pro mileven talking point. You don’t ship byler (you’re just a mileven troll -move on) . Also-Ew - they’re kids. I’m an adult lesbian who actually likes well developed relationships - especially if lgbt. That’s all. And I’ve already criticized other bylers for some of their questionable heteronormative behavior and creepy fetishistic behavior of the characters/actors. Also Bylers usually like El -more than milevens like Will. We don’t like mileven cause we see it’s bad for El’s character development and mental health. We care about El and think getting to know the real world and herself is better than rushing into a relationship (before she’s actually ready). But, y’all hate Will over a few comments he’s made. And I’ve seen milevens say they want Will d*ad or even say they wish he never came back from the upsidedown. And that’s just cause you’re threatened he’ll ruin mileven. Ya’ll are projecting . YOU EVEN SAID bylers make you not like Will as much- in a diff message. But go off. (And leaaaave me alone ). Blocked you cause you have no self control to do it yourself .😂

#byler #byeler #mike wheeler #max mayfield

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dcbicki · 5 years

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there's a super vocal shipper on this hell site that makes long drawn out posts regarding various "conspiracies" and metas about how b*ler is endgame. bc finn recently played two gay characters its like their tin hat theories are in overdrive and they can't see mike as anything but gay. I hope the duffers don't succumb to fandom bullying (looking at you r*ddie shippers) and forget all they've hinted at with regard to mileven being endgame. it wouldn't make sense to abandon mileven at this point

I’m pretty sure I know who you’re referring to, but let me just start off by saying that it’s easier to avoid reading things that you know for a fact are going to annoy you if you block the people that post them/the tags used. That’s what I’ve done for months now – I’ve blocked dozens of people who irritated me, and I stay far away from their tags (not that I can say the same for them with our pro- tags.)

But I do get why you’re bringing this up. Their following isn’t small, but if you consider in the number of casual viewers, the sheer size of the Mike/Eleven fandom (casual viewers who aren’t invested but who bought into it because that’s what was intended included), and the fact that it’s actually canon and not going anywhere, I don’t think you need to worry about the Duffers ever pandering to a minority of fans who claim “homophobia!” if you don’t ship their crackship.

There’s zero romantic subtext to By*ler, but that’s not to say people aren’t allowed to ship it. You should be allowed to “ship” anything as long as it’s harmless, and you’re not harming anyone, and it’s not a toxic relationship. Everyone’s had ships that haven’t panned out, or haven’t gone anywhere because they were never intended to. Hell, sometimes they do make more sense than what we get. But there’s a difference between acknowledging that canon isn’t for you and shipping something non-canon for funsies because you prefer it, and pretending canon is something else entirely. You can make a case for some other shows/works – and I’m gonna have to ignore the “IT” part of what you mentioned because, really, there was subtext for that pairing, I believe – but there’s no grand conspiracy when it comes to Stranger Things (at least not in terms of the ~romantic~ relationships.)

The only subtle, blink-and-you-miss-it hints the writers have dropped had to do with the science side of the plot, or with Brenner and Hopper’s statuses. They’re not gonna pull a bait-and-switch at the last minute and suddenly have Mike come out as always having been in love with Will when it’s pretty clear to anyone who has a basic understanding of how storytelling works that it’s not the case and that it would now just be plain stupid – not the idea of Mike having feelings, but the idea that it would happen in this universe that they’ve created. That’s why AUs are fun, and fanfiction is an outlet.

And the Finn thing… I mean, major yikes. This whole “all of his characters are gay so obviously, Mike is, too” thing is so dumb, and it ties back to something I said on twitter a while ago: His fandom comparing all of his roles, and pitting each character against one another is just bizarre, but it’s super interesting how the majority of hardcore Finn stans (that I’ve seen) seem to like Mike the least. And the most anti-Mike people I’ve come across also happen to ship By*ler… Mike who isn’t canonically out, and By*ler that isn’t canon. It’s just interesting when you think about it; especially when you factor in that people are constantly questioning that kid’s sexuality and it’s just weird. Like, why do we care so much? Let him be, and let him chose roles that he wants to play regardless of what their sexuality is. It’s not hard.

To sum up, the ST writers aren’t going to change the story just because one of their actors’ has played LGBTQ roles. That’s literally the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard, but yet… There just seems to be some odd trend of hating on straight characters – because, yes, we’re led to believe Mike is straight – for fun. And you can’t claim that not shipping By*ler is slander or hating on gay representation because it isn’t rep in the first place. But, like, whatever, to each their own.

Also, block people and blacklist tags if this kind of thing is getting on your nerves.

#anon #answered #long post

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