#SPN Revival Speculation

[rewatching-sam-and-dean]

The Schrödinger's SPN Revival

So, recently there’s been a lot of talk on here and twitter because a couple articles have been published citing Jared and Jensen (or just Jensen in one POS article) mentioning discussing possibilities for a revival. Does this make it any more likely to happen or closer to being realized? I don’t know, but the guys have been mentioning it off and on for years already, so I’m not sure it’s any more likely now than it ever was. Also, with networks and the whole industry in seeming disarray, even if J2 want to get a revival going, I’m not sure it will happen.

But, let’s speculate anyway. Shall we?

(I CANOT get the link to work for some reason!!)

My thoughts on this, under the cut.

I’m no authority on anything in the TV industry, but I have watched our little show a lot, so I have thoughts. Let’s take look at each person on this poll.

Kripke - Obviously, he understands Sam and Dean. He created them after all. But, would I trust him with the revival? Well, judging by The Boys, he seems more focused on shock value than tight storytelling these days, so I’m not sure I would want to see an SPN on a streamer that he ran. It might become a case of all fireworks and little to no heart. Also, if he had ended the series in Season 5, both Sam and Dean would have been trapped in the cage forever. Not exactly a happy ending. Still, is he capable of manning a revival snd doing a decent job? Yes. Would I totally trust him with it? Maybe. Maybe not. Do I think he even has time to do it? Not really.

Jensen - Come on, people! If you want him to reprise his role as Dean, then he isn’t going to be the showrunner. Also, he’s an actor, not a writer, so it’s not even in his wheelhouse. So, no. This wouldn’t be a good idea. And after The Winchesters, I think it’s extremely unlikely that he’d be put at the helm in this way. The only upside to Jensen being a show runner? We know damn well Destiel would be ignored as vigorously as it deserves.

Robbie Thompson - Exhibit One: The Winchesters. So, no. Also, while he has written some episodes that I like of SPN, he was always trying to make the show something it wasn’t, whether it was Fairytale time with Charlie or trying to shoehorn romance into a platonic brother love story, he’s shown that he shouldn’t be trusted with the OG show in a position of power.

Sera Gamble - Season 6 while having some absolute bangers, was also a bit of a mess in some ways. And Season 7 was more so. How much of this was due to Gamble hersel and how much was due to Singer tugging at the reins, I don’t know. She is a proven showrunner, so I believe she could do it. She actually understands and enjoys Sam, so that would be a huge relief for those of us who actually care about Sam and want to see him get his due on screen. Also, she has never written Dean badly from my observations, despite certain past claims by “some people” on women not writing male dialogue well. In a lot of ways, I think she could be a good choice. But, would she be interested even? I have no clue.

Andrew Dabb - NEXT!!

Jeremy Carver - For reasons relating to Season 11, I would like to see him helm a revival. He can clearly follow through with a connected and coherent arc. However, for reasons relating to Season 8, where he had characters do a few hugely out of character things for the story’s sake? No. For Season 10 snd the bore thst it was for me personally (though that potentially had something to do with pressure that came from Singer)? No. All in all. I think he’d be capable of ruining a revival, but something tells me he isn’t particularly interested and they guys may not be that ready to chose him, either (purely just my gut).

Robert Singer - No. I believe he interfered with Gamble and Carver’s plans; I just don’t know to what extent. And worst of all, he did nothing to help steer Dabb away from the mess that was much of Seasons 12 to 15. Also, he’d probably bring Buck-Lemming with him. And can I just say a big, “Fuck no,” to that.

Again, all of this is just me rambling. I have no real idea how likely any of them would be to come back for a revival. And I also don’t know how much J2 would want any of them to run a revival, or whether they’d want to just get someone new who might be more likely to listen to their ideas. I don’t even know if J2 would have an easy time agreeing on who would make a good show runner from that list because I think they might not even agree on who they considered to be better writers, or be better candidates to showrunner. For example, I think Jared might be more enthusiastic about Gamble than Jensen would. And Jensen would probably welcome Singer more than Jared would. Again, I don’t know any of this for certain, but it just my impression based off of things they’ve said over the years.

If a revival happens what do I want?

First, it sounds to me like if there is one, J2 want to be a big part of it with Sam and Dean as central focus. This is what I would want. I watched the show for them. I stuck it out through the rough seasons for them. The only way I would watch a revival was if it heavily featured both Sam and Dean. Second, I think I would enjoy if they did a revival during the years (according to J2) between Episodes 19 snd 20. I would like this because it would make the likelihood of angel or demon interference minimal. And this would be the more likely scenario for us to get a more old-school creature hunting revival. We could still see Jody and co for those who care about that. There would be no need for Cas or Jack to show up, which I would prefer. Yet, it would be easy enough for them to make a brief appearance if J2 wanted to pander in that way. Also, I’m so very sick of Angel BS, and this seems like the best way to avoid it. Third, I could be interested in a bit of a prequel with John and the boys, if they could find a way to include J2 without making it convoluted and pointless. Finally, if they come back from heaven for some reason, I think it would be hard for the revival to have much in the way of stakes. And I really wouldn’t want a huge dose of Cas, which we’d potentially have in that case.

Anyway, here are my thoughts on the potential revival, thoughts thst no one asked for admittedly. Lol.

If anyone read this far, what are your thoughts on a revival. If it happens, who should run it and what would you want to see happen?

#supernatural #SPN Revival Speculation #my thoughts #if they have one what should it be about? #Revival talk #castiel critical #anti destiel #*edited for so so many typos*

[lol-jackles]

https://twitter.com/jarpad/status/1780755844042293272?t=iFz6pgbo-m0WDGBvXeoL6A&s=19

With this ask and answer, do you think with his connection to Dan Lin that he may have something for Netflix, or that it is the spn revival (I hope not), one of the books the Padaleckies' were promoting, or a 4th thing that is is a total question mark because he keeps things close to the chest?

It could be any of your speculations. Most projects die on the vine or linger in development hell so it's not unusual for talents to have several projects they are trying to bring to fruition.

That said, I thought it was interesting back in February Jared was the only actor mentioned in the Los Angels Times about Lin's new job at Netflix.  Lin had produced blockbusters with well-known film stars and an Oscar-nominated biographical drama The Two Popes (I'm sure it was good, but I fell asleep).

Also, Lin's Haunted Mansion at Disney+ is a very enjoyable family film that may become a holiday watch tradition in our house.

#jared padalecki #dan lin

[eisforeidolon]

All the wild speculation and polls and whatnot about an SPN revival have convinced me of a couple things.

This fandom is still as hysterically over-reactive as ever it was. OMG clickbait sites are publishing articles that Jensen and Jared are talking about talking about a revival quoting what they said in Hawaii - IT'S HAPPENING. Uh, J2 have been talking about doing a revival since before they announced SPN was ending. This is not remotely new news. Maybe wait until they're doing something more than talking about talking about talking about it to start winding up the drama? Crazy suggestion, I know.

A lot of people clearly have absolutely no idea what a showrunner does. You not only have to be a writer who understands how to tell a story specifically through a visual medium, but have the ability to keep track of the big picture enough to steer a room of other writers through telling a cohesive narrative through their smaller segments of the overarching story. Not even every writer has the ability to do that well, as I think SPN itself shows. It makes sense for J2 to have EP roles, but they're not fucking writers, let alone showrunners.

Which doesn't even get into how in most of the discussion, whether it be in response to polls about who the showrunner should be or whether fans want a revival at all, there is just so much reiteration of the same old weird projection, bad fanon, and wild stan and shipper conspiracy theories.

#fandom issues #revival speculation

[blanketforcas]

i love how you can tell how badly they fucked up and how inconsistent spn's ending was with the rest of the show cause even articles speculating about a revival don't know what side of fandom to cater to

#(and they often end up trying to cater to everyone including homophobes #in a really messy way that ends up leaving everyone dissatisfied) #also some articles just straight up rage-bait ofc #but that's another thing

[incarnateirony]

Why SPN Reunion Is Already In Dev.

To clarify, this is all speculation and observation, but some lines I want to draw for people.

At current, you may all hear the Sky Is Falling about the CW, which is half true and half hysterical. The reality is, nothing would have been ordered if they expected a 24/7 news network, meaning CBS and WB probably have an agreed share of airspace as minority owners, and maybe even for a limited time (such as a 3 year contract.)

In this time, the industry as a whole is changing. From WB parentage to streaming--Disney said it'll take till about 2026 for streaming as primary platform to be sustainable even for THEM, so you can understand how other studios are dealing with this.

Nexstar is a bandaid slap where the can still use a few business models and work out others, while forcing them to narrow it down to a variety of shows held to better performance standards, and almost an ongoing trial run on if budgeting that show is profitable to its parent studio (WB/HBO, CBS/Paramount).

HBO Max has grown rapidly in the last year, now in 90-odd countries, and aiming for 120+ in a few years.

This is the period The Winchesters is floating in.

One thing to know is a lot of "casual optioning", "verbal agreements" tend to hang in the air unsigned. Jensen casually dropped about an SPN reunion on HBO max, and that seems random, until you realize the energy with which he told us about the original prequel.

Jensen started prequel dev late 2020 and will have it on air by late 2022, which is a pretty fast track, he even thought 2023 originally. So imagine if you will giving a 3 year buff post fall 2022--fall 2025.

Fall 2025, right around companies starting to tip towards considered platform sustainability.

Keep in mind, "In Development" is everything from Concept to Pre Production, but I do think there's been a discussion of HBO Max pickup of prime series revival if the prequel performs decently, and it seems like talk of that is already casually bypassing the CW.

Pretty sure Jensen's already scribbled final case ideas, if not taken this to Robbie and others to at least get a dev concept rolling, if he's mentioned that HBO Max thing.

It seems such a minor comment but if you really plug it in the flow of the world you go. "oh."

[teamfreewill2pointo]

https://www.tumblr.com/teamfreewill2pointo/739631073821081600/seems-to-me-like-rob-and-richs-information-is

Did you listen to this episode of the podcast on Patreon or on iTunes/some other format? I saw the comment on Twitter about R&R saying there wouldn’t be a reboot (or whatever), and I know you listened and heard it too, but I listened to the episode on iTunes (I’m not interested in paying for Patreon again), and I didn’t hear this part of the conversation at all, and I purposely was trying to listen for it.

Is it possible someone told them to cut that part out of the public version of the episode, or did I just miss it? Is there a time stamp for when they talk about SPN never being brought back?

I believe the people who said R & R made this claim, but if they did on Patreon, but it was taken out on the more public podcast, it either suggests they were wrong and told to edit that out, or J2 or CE or whoever want the fans to keep thinking they will get a revival of some kind, even though there is no chance of one, just to put butts in seats at conventions.

Either Rob and Rich were speaking out of turn and don’t actually know anything (I don’t think they actually talk to either Jared or Jensen all the time), or J2 are just BSing everyone to keep them interested in SPN even though it’s over, or somewhere in the last month, J2 we’re told an unequivocal no on reboot or one/both of them changed their minds.

Which scenario do you think is the most likely?

I'm confused why you didn't hear it because I heard it on Apple just now about 40 minutes in. It's on Spotify too.

I just listened to it again, and they say they won't bring the show back. They don't specifically say there won't be a revival. You could take them saying as they won't bring the show back as there won't be any sort of revival, but you could also see it as they won't resume the series on the CW.

At Nashcon, in response to a fan question, Jared said that they plan to do a revival, but it wouldn't be like season 16. So perhaps they were certain about the show not returning, but we shouldn't take it as news about possible revival.

It's also possible that Rob & Rich know of something that happened after Nashcon or that J2 are just lying, but one thing I've learned from my years in this fandom is that's better to not let yourself run away with speculation.

I've seen people take things as fact that weren't actually true, but were misunderstandings. I'm putting it under the category of information and I'm waiting to see what other people say at the next con.

#supernatural #spn #spn cast #revival #spn revival #r2

[laf-outloud]

https://www.tumblr.com/laf-outloud/715522583266754560

I know this is speculation but I actually wouldn't doubt it. Jensen keeps bringing up Kripke at cons (from saying he wants him to do the spn revival so saying he wants Kripke to come to cons, etc.) and he seems to be ramping up the mentions. People speculated that he just wanted to work with him more but now with this new Amazon deal, it would make sense if they already are working on something. One thing that a lot of people have been speculating about is a SB spin-off. I don't know really know how it works when it comes to spin-offs but maybe they had a deal contingent on CMP being the production company? Or at least using Amazon wanting to sign him for a SB spin-off to leverage them to take on CMP as well (even if they don't produce it).

I'm glad someone else sees the possibility in my speculations! (Makes me feel like less of a conspiracy-theorist, lol!)

I've heard the rumors about a SB spin-off, but his character really didn't make that much of an impact in TB, and with the Gen-V spinoff, it might be over-saturation, not that that's stopped anyone before.

I know Kripke would like to see TB turn into a franchise (spin-offs, conventions, etc.), but if you look at the numbers (2022 is no longer available), the rewatch value/fandom engagement just isn't there. TB is in the top 10 of streamed shows the weeks that new episodes air, but after that, it drops out of the top 20 completely. It's such a niche show (more so than SPN), that it's unlikely to ever reach that kind of lucrative popularity.

#ask box #cmp's deal with amazon #jensen and eric #the boys critical

[lol-jackles]

big debate on a lot of blogs about whether a spn revival, with Jared and Jensen as Sam and Dean again will happen. I think it’s very likely but would love your opinion.

I think it will happen, but it will depend on Jared's schedule and if he's okay with the proposed storyarcs, because I'm pretty sure he's going to want some creative control after the hilarious dumpster fire of the prequel sequel The Winchesters, and take it upon himself to find a competent showrunner to manage the revival project.

I’ve speculated that 5 years after the SPN went off the air, WB will attempt a revival/reboot/limited series because that’s when nostalgia starts to set in and just enough time has passed to sanitize some of the previous misgivings.  Now it’s 2 years away in 2025, the same year SPN will leave Netflix and maybe head to Max.

A revival may not even need Jared and Jensen as the main leads if it focus on Sam’s son, Dean II.  Jared can appear as Sam in flashbacks passing on the lessons to young Dean II, like Psych flashback scenes of young Shawn and his father that starts each episode.   Then it can be flashback within a flashback of Sam and Dean hunting things and saving lives.

#Supernatural #revival #Jared Padalecki #Jensen Ackles

[apophine]

not to be an armchair psychologist but there’s something very striking to me about the way so many women on here relate to characters and stories that engage outright and explicitly with misogyny and misogynistic violence….american psycho, fight club, the spn revival, the godfather (any classic al pacino vehicle tbh), the Cult of Thomas Shelby, succession, even MASH to an extent…. not that there’s anything wrong with engaging in these stories (i think they’re all very good, personally) but i think we favor the wink-wink, nudge-nudge, he is literally me type of engagement over even the mildest acknowledgement of the misogyny in these stories, often carried out directly by favored male characters.

makes me speculate about how we as women relate the escapism into media with escapism from misogyny. but since it’s quite literally impossible to imagine a world without misogyny, without gendered violence at an institutional level, instead we seek to escape it by associating ourselves with the beneficiaries or perpetrators of that violence. im definitely not the first to speculate about this phenomenon but idk who might have said this originally

#this doesn’t apply to my mutuals mwah you’re all perfect keep it up #if you’re new here hi i promise im a relaxed person capable of having fun fkdljfdl #i just truly do think it’s interesting! like not even in a cunty way! #anyways this was gonna go in the drafts but whatever

[drsilverfish]

Uriel’s Return...

We know from Misha’s spoiler that Uriel is returning to S15:

https://twitter.com/mishacollins/status/1231017998841995264

and I got to thinking about what a reunion between Cas and his old garrison-mate might mean (speculatively).

Is this the real Uriel, revived from The Empty? Or a carbon-copy created by Chuck (the way Lilith in S15 presumably was carbon-copied, as Chuck himself, apparently, has no dominion in The Empty)? I’m going with the real Uriel, revived from The Empty. 

Back in S4, Uriel was secretly of the Devil’s party, because he had lost faith in God. He was looking to bring on the apocalypse, have his Lord, Lucifer, win and rule over Heaven. He was also quite contemptuous of humans, referring to them as “mud monkeys.” 

Now, in S15, Cas too has lost faith in God, but, unlike Uriel, Cas has found faith in humanity, and specifically in his adopted Winchester family, which includes an angel-human hybrid, Jack. In subtext, Jack is a symbol of the romantic/ erotic bond between Cas, an angel, and Dean, a human - which is also, as we learned in 12x10 Lily Sunder Has Some Regrets, Heaven’s greatest sin.

So, there is much for these old comrades/ frenemies, Uriel and Castiel, to discuss, theologically speaking; concerning God, humanity and angel-human “fraternization”.

Outside SPN, Uriel the Archangel pops up in The Book of Enoch (considered non-canonical in Hebrew and most Christian traditions - but Bible-adjacent), which is the book which talks about Nephilim, as fathered by human women and fallen angels (Grigori).

As Nephilim Jack is now eating the hearts of Grigori, it seems The Book of Enoch is relevant. In that book, Uriel is sent by God to tell Noah to avoid the great flood, by which means God will purge the sins of the Grigori from the Earth. So, Uriel in Enoch is a sort of sign of the apocalpyse and of a new Heaven and a new Earth following after - a harbinger of end-times and renewal. So it’s fitting Uriel should re-appear as SPN approaches its own end-times.

NB: the other Archangels mentioned in Enoch are Michael, Raphael and Gabriel, so maybe we will get a Gabe reappearance before The EndTM too.

Remember in Genesis, the rainbow was God’s promise after the flood that he would never destroy the Earth again in a similar fashion?

Now Chuck is breaking that promise.

Faced with a wrathy Chuck, as our heroes are in S15, a God who is determined to bring about The EndTM he wants (a Winchester murder-suicide) that reminded me of Amara’s rainbow baby-pillow from 11x02 Form and Void:

Which made me think back on Amara’s role and journey in S11 and now here in S15:

https://drsilverfish.tumblr.com/post/144961871804/form-and-void-to-alpha-and-omega

No doubt Amara, the feminine God-principle in the universe, associated with the rainbow of hope, will be important in dissuading Chuck from his present wrathful path, thus bringing balance to the cosmos and the story, amd warding off the dark apocalyptic ending presaged by the return of Uriel.  

#Supernatural #S15 #SPN spoilers #SPN spec #Uriel #The funniest angel in the Garrison #11x02 #Form and Void #Amara #Chuck Shurley #The Monster at the End of This Book #SPN meta #Meta

[inacatastrophicmind]

You don't have to answer this but what are your realistic expectations for the last 3 episodes. As much as it hurts my expectations are Cas dies in 18 - sacrificing himself. 19 God is defeated or killed (this is so Bleh for me because Killing God is lazy writing for shock value) and in 20 Dean and Sam are the heroes why world is still alive and Jack takes over heaven and role of God. Cas may be remembered in a flashback but we will not see him being resurrected or anything.

I’m pretty sure that Cas dies in 15x18, but after that, I have no idea about what’s going to happen. Michael is involved in 15x19, if I’m not wrong, but apart from that, I am not sure how things will go.

I’m trying not to think a lot about what’s going to happen nor have too many expectatons. I’ve been watching SPN since the end of s7 and I’ve been disappointed so many times during all these years. However, I’m a hopeful idiot that still wishes that Cas is revived in 15x20 and that things go well for Dean, Cas and Sam, and that the last scene will be of the three of them happy and alive. But knowing the writers, it probably won’t be like that. My brain keeps telling me that, but my hopeful heart likes to contradict it and dream about the bright side of what it might be.

As much as I hate it, I think your speculation is quite on point. I only hope that when it comes to Cas’ story, it doesn’t play like that. Like I said, I’m a damn hopeful idiot.

#s15 spoilers #Anonymous #my answers

[handlewithkara]

What I take away from Supernatural’s ending

Well the first thing I take away that once again creators are way too in love with killing their characters at the end (I wanted to say male ones, but TVD had a similar ending and I think they had a female showrunner). I often wonder if for some of them it’s almost a therapeutic step to get closure after being on a job for a long time. Or whether there is some sort of childish primal “I made it, I destroy it” in there, or wanting to make sure that the show can’t easily be revived and for somebody else to write their creations again. 

It appears the Supernatural TPTB have gone on record on twitter that their finale was heavily impacted by Covid, that they originally wanted to do a lot more guest stars but couldn’t get them. If so, that probably contributed a lot to the finale being THAT brother focused. I will say though, though personally I would always be in the camp of telling people not to be unrealistic, if there was ever a show that could “Snydercut” their own finale, it would be this finale. Not to the extent of changing anything major, but they could easily do isolated scenes of the various characters in heaven and just cut them into the montage of Dean driving. 

However, I don’t think that Covid is a substantial enough excuse for some of the creative choices they made. Most notably they could have followed up on Castiel’s big confession simply by giving Dean dialogue with the characters he did interact with in the finale (or even worst case by talking to himself). They had opportunities to handle it within the circumstances they were in and they did not take it. Again I wonder whether they thought they were doing fans a favor by leaving it open so everybody can project in their own truth, but I personally think this is pretty cowardly (especially since they could have addressed it more within dialogue and still keep Dean’s exact feelings vague). 

I have said before that what struck me as baiting about the way the Destiel situation was handled wasn’t that Castiel confessed or even that his feelings might potentially not be requited. I always had a sinking feeling that they never had any intention of having Dean reciprocate on screen romantically (think the “friend” description line in the script) [so again they might have been thinking of it as a favor to keep it open]. Yet to me having a clearly onesided gay love would have been less baiting. In that case the writers could have reasoned plausibly that this is just the arc they see for Castiel. It would have fallen into other negative tropes like tragic!gay! but it wouldn’t have been baiting. If either following scenes had made it clear that Dean doesn’t see him “that way” or if the writers at least had gone on record and made it clear that that is the end of Castiel’s tale. It would have been disappointing but at least fans would have known exactly what they were in for. What makes the confession “baity” is Dean’s lack of response, which “baits” people to keep watching to see how he will respond (only to have exactly that never happen). 

My last takeaway is on the nature of speculation and prediction. 

1.) Temper your expectations. Generally, whenever the fans look for symbolism and “signs” in the text... just halve on whatever complexity you expect out of the writers. And then halve that again. IMO most shows are much simpler than people think. Yes, sometimes they surprise us with the occasional callbacks to the past and yes sometimes they do employ very simple elements of parallelism, but 10 times out of 10 whatever the fans think is way more detailed than what the writers think of. 

2.) Speculation fans who call their fellow fans “honey” are always a bad sign. It’s too often an indicator of people who think they have the truth when everybody else doesn’t, which again, usually a bad sign. Refer back to point 1 on that. 

3.) As much as I personally highly doubted that there was a big chance that the show was going to have Dean unambiguously reciprocate romantic feelings and as much as I’m highly dubious of fans using highly specific symbolism as clues or refering back to episodes 5 seasons back and use it as surefire clues of how the finale is going to pan out, I don’t think that some of the other speculations were so off the wall. A confession like Castiel’s does raise an expectation that it should at least be addressed in some way. Similarly, despite me being doubtful about how they would handle this, I did at least highly expect Castiel to be in the finale in some way. I’m not a hardcore SPN fan at all, but even I was aware that the show heavily used a promo picture of 4 characters (Sam, Dean, Castiel and Jack) to promote the season. Add to that TPTB explicitly singling out Castiel in their various social media posts in regards to thanking people and shouting him out as to what the show was about, giving interviews about the finale being about the family Sam and Dean have built around them, it was enough for me to expect that finale would be more about how how the family has grown to be beyond just Sam and Dean, so for it to be just them mostly felt like them reverting. 

Granted, this might just be me being grumpy that my expectations were wrong and hence me looking to Covid as an explanation to say: I didn’t read the signs wrong, it’s not that I read the show (family is SamDean+the friends they made along the way) differently from the writers (Sam and Dean to the exclusion of anything else). 

In the end, this element reminds me the most of Supergirl and how fans have very different read on which parts of the story are “the important bit”. Is it sisters over everything or is it space family or the whole gang or is it Kara over everything? It is about Kara’s human connections or is it about Kara’s mission as a hero? Is Kara as a symbol a burden to be discarded or a good thing to be celebrated? And those are the things that a finale ends up having the final say on and those questions are often frustrating because usually those are multiple valid point of views that both have copious perceived “evidence” and they are heavily influenced by personal preference and personal experience. 

Above all, the Supernatural ending has for me strengthened my unease with speculation and prediction and acting like something is a sure thing. That’s why I don’t really like predicting things, why I want to focus more on the things we already got. Because speculation is treacherous. I will still look at various elements of foreshadowing, but I want to do it more as a tool of judgement rather than as a tool of prediction. Less “they built up vigilante Alex, so this WILL happen” and more “they built so much effort into setting up this situation, it would feel haphazard if they didn’t follow up on it at all”. 

I think people should never make the mistake that anything shown in a show is a promise to them. I think you can try to signal to the show that the fact that there is foreshadowing means that if it came true, you would find it extremely awesome, because fans love stuff like that. But never make the mistake of assuming you know where TPTB are going and that it’s a sure thing (and the further back your evidence lies, imo the less likeyl it is to still be relevant to the writers in any meaningful way, that’s why “they have been foreshadowing this since season 1!!!!” usually doesn’t impress me at all). Again, reduce your expectations of complexity and then reduce it again. It’s not that deep, writens usually are busy people, with hectic lives who don’t spend nearly as much time watching old episodes as fans do. 

#spn #supergirl

[whitmerule]

Okay, while I’m waiting for a torrent completely legal source of the SPN finale to appear, my speculation for one element of it: specifically, ‘which character is Jensen going to be playing’.

Clues: snappy dresser. Apparently this has been a long time coming. Reference to a ‘rash decision’ made by one of the brothers possibly factors in here; if so, that implies that Dean consents, ie, angel. 

Rated on: ‘do i want more of that character’, ‘do i want to see that plotline play out’, and ‘does this satisfy the narrative arcs of the season’.

The most speculated characters are Michael and Loki, with a small vocal minority for Crowley, so I’ll start there.

Michael: Obvious contender. Too obvious. If anything the ‘long time coming’ clue works against him here as a red herring. Fails on the snappy dresser front: I’d want to see Dean as this Michael dressed more like 2014!Dean, with combat fatigues and big boots and a thigh holster... mmm... thigh holster... sorry, where was I. Would superficially pay off some of the character arcs of the season, and factor into the Heaven crisis back in our world; but wouldn’t actually change anything on any of those fronts, just turn it into more of the same. Hypothetically giving Dean the chance to be Michael could bring about a satisfying conclusion to lots of the themes of (hyper-masculine) familial relationships as ruined by life-long combat that have been going on throughout the whole series; but this season’s Michael has completely failed to engage with them in the same way that the archangel plot did in seasons 4-5. And bringing him into Heaven would probably just make it another ‘new dictator in town’ plot, exactly as we keep seeing with Heaven and Hell again and again for the last eight seasons. Conclusion: 5/10. They might do it, I hope they don’t, it’d be safe and boring and not a plot twist at all and would end up writing them into the same tired old corner. Be better, show.

Loki: Wins on the snappy dressing! Could be really really fun and take the show in some unexpected places? They’d have to deliver really hard in the whole ‘facing old versions of yourself’ metaphor that they began in RSJ’s episode to make him an actually relevant big bad, but at the same time he could be complex and chaotic enough to play out, over the course of a whole season, as a not-quite-enemy not-quite-friend who forces them to confront a bunch of interesting things about themselves in the lead-up to (hopefully) a satisfying conclusion to the whole series? And Jensen would have fun with him. But I hope he’d get his RSJ body back soon. Though, bonus: for him as a character to have any meaning, Gabriel would have to still be hanging around and become a major player in TFW, as well as exploring the relationship between his own fears and denials and those of the brothers + Cas. Conclusion: 6/10??? I really like the idea but don’t think they’d manage to write it consistently and effectively over the course of a whole season. I know any number of fanfic writers who COULD do it, but... not the showrunners.

Crowley: ... ugh no please? I mean, don’t get me wrong, I love Mark (that Mark anyway), but imo Crowley’s storyline was played out around season 7. Brief revival of interest re. his interactions with Rowena, but.... no. The writers don’t have anything new to say about him. And it would have absolutely no relevance to any satisfying narrative arcs. Please don’t.  Conclusion: 1/10. Crowley’s only saving grace is that he’s played by Mark S. I cannot think of any possible way it would link into any satisfying plot hooks or relationship development. Though he is a snappy dresser. 

Lucifer: NOPE NOPE NOPE DEAN DON’T DO IT I can actually see him doing this in desperation but they’d have to sell it VERY well. He’d essentially be saying farewell to himself because he’d know he’d never come back from it. And that would mean something very traumatic had already happened. Probably he’s trying to save Sam from Lucifer, and the ‘long-awaited thing’ is just Dean hosting AN archangel, rather than a specific one. But I just want Lucifer to be gone, okay? Preferably by means of Sam, Gabriel, Rowena, and Cas. With much stabbage. Conclusion: 5/10??? I mean I personally really do not want that but they COULD play it out reasonably well.

Gabriel: YES PLEASE OMG YES except that means no more RSJ. at least for a couple of eps because let’s face it Dean won’t stay not-Dean for long. They’d have fun with it but it wouldn’t play into anything very epic, and while I’m all for Dean being a temporary vessel for Gabriel in fanfic (or mid-season) it doesn’t feel like a promising Epic Season Finale to me. Conclusion: 3/10. Obviously Gabriel is not dead, we all know this, and obviously he has to keep being played by RSJ.

AU!Castiel: .... yesnoyesnoyes HMMMM. See, AU!Cas has obviously been reprogrammed even more than our Cas - and that’s WITHOUT having Dean there to tempt him to The Dark Side (tm). Granted this is the regime and circumstances as much as anything else, but... even before he met Dean, our Cas had already been reprogrammed several times. AU!Cas has presumably had that, then, after the timelines split, got at least one REALLY heavy reprogramming (see: his broken left eye), and not had a Dean to draw him back to compassion. So he’s a shattered mess of a creature with the potential for good hidden under so much broken hatred... seeing him IN Dean would be very interesting, and could do a lot for both characters (if we had a lot of scenes of the pair of them debating deep in the inner sanctum of Dean’s soul). But I don’t think the show would go down that route. And we have no personal investment in this Castiel - unless they manage to engage with LOKI as well and ALL of these characters’ ‘how to face the consequences of our choices that have made us who we are’ arcs for the season. Also he is not a snappy dresser. In no iteration of Castiel is he snappy. Conclusion: 8/10. If they wrote REALLY REALLY WELL they COUDL DO IT and it would be AWESOME. But they’d probably end up killing him for manpain, which would not work well with the ‘fuck yeah confront your abusers and it’s okay to be hurt’ vibe that I’ve been getting from Jared especially these last few episodes.

Our Castiel???: YES YES YES YES SUCH A LONG TIME COMING ignore the previous ‘not a snappy dresser’ comment I WANT CAS TO HAVE TO RIDE IN DEAN BECAUSE sOMETHING HAPPENED AND shut up I know it’s not going to happen just give it to me okay Conclusion: 100/10 I WANT IT AND YOU COULD DO SUCH IMPORTANT THINGS WITH IT ON A NARRATIVE LEVEL AND IT WOULD BE ADORABLE

JACK???!??: ... huh. no, not really. I honestly think Jack would feel as violated by this as Dean would. Unless Dean has to do it to protect him. But if presented in a certain way it could almost work.... Conclusion: 4/10....?

Left-field contender - Azazel....? Or some other old enemy from way back?: nope. not interested.

conclusion of conclusions: apparently i’m hoping for au!cas. who knew!

oh look a torrent. see you on the other side!

#s13e23 #speculation #meta