#Salters can go and drown in their salt! | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

sunfoxfic · 2 years

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So glad I'm not the only one who is uneasy with this unnecessary class salt. Look I don't hate the Love Square, but I don't really care for the ship and that. I'm just interested in the lore and the actions. Plus I wanna see the other powers outside of Ladybug and Cat.

Also, God do I hate those kinds of salt fics. Especially those kinds of mari//bat ones where Marinette moves away and gets adopted by the batfam.

The issue, I think, is that people reinvent the wheel and are fully committed to the belief that they've actually created a super-sturdy tent. Not only do they miss the mark on what exactly the function of their creation is (negativity that can only really function to make people dislike the characters), but they don't see that they're doing the same things as the people they hate.

And it's not the same as the type of class salt that you find in Maribat, I'll be frank about that. But it looks astoundingly similar, and to people who love the class, it feels the same. Most importantly, to people who hate the class, it justifies them. And I don't think people spreading negativity about the secondary heroes actually intend that, but they clearly don't care enough about the class to stop themselves.

People who watch this show for any reason other than the love square tend to get drowned out by love square fans. And it's not inherently wrong to watch the show specifically for the love square, but if you're making content about the love square and you claim to be anti-salt, I think you have to understand that when others are looking for options other than the love square, they're frequently going to run into salty sides of the fandom. Lukanette fans feel this, Lila and Chloe fans feel this, anyone who likes Adrien or Marinette individually as characters but not in a relationship definitely feels it. And so at the very least you have to not mimic the salt by spreading negativity toward characters in a way that justifies the salters, because otherwise you are actively pushing people to be salters.

And the thing is, I love the love square. I got here because I loved the love square. I write more love square fic than any other ship, and about as much love square fic as I write gen fic. I have a feeling if I were to go into my archive right now, I'd see more tags for love square than for any other ship. I'd definitely see more tags for Adrien and Marinette than any other characters.

But I don't want my love of the love square to cloud how much I enjoy other aspects of the show. If you treat the episodes as a zero sum game for screen time, then you'll never get enough love square unless it's 100%. I love the love square, but I also love seeing the secondary heroes, I love the way the friendships get so convoluted with all the secrets but how those secrets make the friendships so important, I love the potential and the theorization, I love seeing more aspects of worldbuilding, etc. And I'm a lot happier with each episode when more or less every component of the episode contains something that I love.

I dunno. I think you gotta understand that these people aren't doing it intentionally, and that's very different from traditional class salt, but it also makes it more frustrating because they're convicted in the idea that they could not possibly perpetuate salt. How do you convince someone to stop doing something that they don't believe they're doing?

#asks answered #supernova-faust #ml fandom salt

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parismystere · 2 years

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i also think another important thing about the 'what is salt' thing is that maybe, labeling something as salt or not-salt is about trust. when you make your name, even in social groups as silly as fandom places, people get the idea of the kind of person you are, what your biases are (we all have them!), if you have demonstrated that you can be engaged in a civil manner, if you are thoughtful, if you are a glass half full or a killjoy person, etc. if someone whose posts you like, respect and enjoy says that they dislike something in ml, you are much more likely to listen and take their opinion into consideration. their opinion shouldn't overrule yours - but if you like, you could even debate your points as long as you keep things nice.

as an example, i tend to greatly dislike the blogs whose sole reason for existence is to meticulously write down instances of wrongdoing towards a character, or just blogs who have been a meeting place for hatred of ml for years, when it's clear that it isn't people communicating their grievances, it's people hate-watching at best. i care less about their content than the principle of the thing - running a blog solely for hate-watchers is unhealthy and a waste of time; the cult aspect makes me want to scream; the distortion of the canon is annoying. so because i have the idea that these people are a little insane, i am not willing to take them seriously and therefore respect them enough to engage. and that is, really, the only group of people in the fandom i don't want to interact with, ever - not for their content, but for their approach.

a similar but inverted situation happens with people i am mutuals with, friends with, people who i have noticed to have good ideas and analyses, etc - because i have this idea of them being a genuinely nice and intelligent person whose ladyblogging i enjoy, even if they post something as #ml salt, i am definitely not going to label them as salty or a salter. for me these are the people whose unhappiness with the show is most valuable - because i know it comes from a place of thought and care, it isn't a superficial reaction, it isn't trolling, it isn't something that isn't rooted in an argument. that's why the kuro neko trailer drama hurt - i felt that some of the most thoughtful people on here couldn't express what they really think because everyone who had genuine reasons to be upset with the episode was dismissed as... being salty out of nowhere? if people had more trust instead of being hostile, if they took the time to familiarize themselves with the original posters, if people were more mature and spent time engaging with each other instead of drowning each other out - who knows?

and, really, i am begging you, can we allow people to just... react? because that has also somehow become forbidden. can we be allowed to be as unhinged as people too invested in a freaking cartoon should be if something new happens? can we not go policing each other?

my rule of thumb is: if someone i like seeing on my dash or has impressed me with their opinions, creations, contributions and so on, is being salty, whatever your interpretation of the word is, then they are probably rightfully mad about something, even if you don't feel the same way.

toxic positivity, forcing yourself to like things just because the canon has written them just so, worrying what it means if you dislike something in ml... i say this as kindly as possible, but this is something everyone should let go. don't allow others to dictate your opinions or to feel like you can't share what you think, as long as you are being respectful and coming from a place of genuineness.

#probably doesn't apply to people who really don't want to see anything less than ml sugar #but the problem there is something else i feel #miraculous ladybug

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sparklyaxolotlstudent · 2 years

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Between being seen as a “salter” or as an “Adrien Stan” (and specifically an Adrien Stan… I haven yet to encounter a stan of any other character as… wild as Adrien Stan can be) I wholeheartedly rather be seen as a salter.

As far as my own unique experience goes, salters are, at best, critical of character choices and the writing of the staff, which for some reason got lumped into salt, but it is what it is. At worst, they will bash characters for no reason, and always assume the worst of them, and write them accordingly.

Am I saying that I agree with the most extreme hate some of these people write? No, of course not, but in the end of the day, they’re just character bashing. Or bashing the writers for bad writing, which is kind of fair.

Adrien Stans? At best, they’re protective of Adrien, which I have nothing against. But then… some of them go on their crusades by attacking other characters. Adrien trying to use Cataclysm on Alya in Hack-San? I have seen Adrien Stans claim that Alya deserved it. Adrien throwing a temper tantrum in Syren, trying to blackmail Plagg, threating to renounce being Chat Noir, while Paris is flooding, while people are actively drowning? Marinette’s fault for not telling him what he wanted to know.

The worst part is that they engage in the same “salt” behavior of bashing other characters but they just never even acknowledge. For them, anyone being against Adrien, or even not being praising Adrien very existence is deserving of bashing.

And if hypocrisy wasn’t enough, they also go against people. I haven’t seen this from “salters” but Adrien Stans will happily go against anyone go dares any criticism against their golden boy (even if the criticism is that he deserves better writing).

On a personal note, I tried to have a discussion with someone(it’s probably up on their blog, I don’t care), and that someone, instead of, y’know, backing up their argument of why I was wrong with facts, or even opinions (which are subjective, but at least are something), they simply starting attacking my person, calling me names, being passive aggressive and thinking calling me a “salter” made them morally superior and correct. I am not ashamed to say I ended up blocking them.

So yeah, I rather be a salter than an Adrien Stan.

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karama9 · 3 years

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Gang of Secrets discourse!

The downside of actually searching tumblr for posts about miraculous is that all the salters I don’t follow because I don’t enjoy their salt will be right there.

Anyway, one thing that pops up in mini fics (usually in a good way) and in some salt posts (usually in a way that I don’t personally enjoy) is the idea that Chat Noir will be upset when he finds out Ladybug told someone else who she was and not him, and on the salt side, that this development is in fact unacceptable.

I can see Chat being initially miffed. I don’t know that it would last very long, because I think he would understand pretty quick why it happened. Chat Blanc is probably a factor, and LB could let him know she’s had to save the future once by avoiding his finding out without going into details, and that makes a great scene and truth be told I love that scenario.

Canon wise though, I think there is an even more compelling reason. I’m sure there’s salt out there on Alya bullying it out of her because there’s salt out there that will turn anything Alya does in something bad. But I don’t feel she did. She made sure Marinette knew she could tell her anything she wanted and they would still be friend, and reassured her. It was a compassionate and loving conversation throughout.

The reason Marinette told Alya is simply that telling Chat Noir would have done her no good whatsoever. It’s not when she’s Ladybug that she has to lie. It’s not when she’s Ladybug that she can’t manage all her conflicting responsibilities. She literally goes through the episode wanting to spend as much time as Ladybug as possible, and not because she genuinely thinks it’s necessary: she's simply avoiding her life as Marinette because it's become too much to handle both and it's as Marinette that she's suffering the consequences, even though it's mostly due to Ladybug.

Basically, it's not when she's Ladybug that she desperately needs someone she can talk to. It's when she's Marinette. And she has no reason to believe Chat Noir would be available to her much outside of costume - we know he would, but she has no idea. Marinette ended up telling Alya because Marinette needed support while being Marinette. Cat Noir is someone who's there when she's Ladybug. It wasn't who she needed.

There's also the spur of the moment aspect that can't be neglected. This was not Marinette making a well thought out rational decision that weighed in all the pros and cons of everyone in her life. This was Marinette cracking, drowning a bit more each waking moment and finally grabbing a lifeline offered by one of the people in her life she trusts the most.

There's a good chance she'll have moments where she regrets it - not because she doesn't trust Alya but because she's making her share the load and possibly putting her in danger, and because of her continuing conviction that the best kept secrets are the ones that aren't shared at all. Hopefully she'll have more moments where she definitely does not regret it and Alya can really help support her, and she'll come to realize it was the right option, as much as it went against her resolutions to carry it all herself and keep everyone safely ignorant for their safety as well as hers.

#miraculous ladybug #Gang of Secrets #Alya #Marinette #chat noir

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