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primal-con · 11 months

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Mkay my brain is working a bit better today so thoughts on Mirage! Namely his inclusion in the movie instead of Jazz and his change in personality

Rise of the Beasts spoilers below the cut✌️

Now like a lot of folks, when I first saw the trailer I was insanely pumped because I thought Mirage was Jazz. I think we all kinda saw the silver Porsche and lost our minds, and of course, I'm still bummed that we didn't get Jazz because I love him dearly and miss him more than words can express. But! Having seen the movie and had time to chew it over, here're my thoughts on Mirage's character in RotB.

So a lot of initial thoughts regarding the choice to include Mirage, and a very different Mirage at that, rather than Jazz, were of course very valid. But I think ultimately while I would've loved for Jazz to have been there, I understand why they didn't go with him. Cause tbh if everything about the movie had been the same except they called Mirage Jazz, I wouldn't have been happy.

While yes, on the surface RotB Mirage seems really similar to G1 Jazz, they're actually really different in the ways that count. Jazz is bright, sociable, charismatic, and more in tune with Earth culture than most bots. RotB Mirage is also a lot of those things! But the key difference is that for Jazz, that personality is a facade. He's an incredibly grim, ruthless person who's seen a lot and is capable of a lot of terrible things, and he uses that trustworthy persona to mask that and make people more comfortable around him.

Mirage comes off as much more genuine in his naivete. He seems legitimately young, impulsive, and vying for adventure. He does things cause they sound fun, not because he thinks it's a smart idea in the long run. The sad things hiding underneath his bright personality don't come from brutal experience and calculated manipulation, they come from a genuine loneliness and desire to explore the world around him. In a lot of ways he plays a similar role to Bumblebee in most other TF media, the naive young optimist who wants to see the best in people and be a hero. Which narratively makes sense considering Bee was out of commission for most of the movie. He's not necessarily stupid, he's just not wise, and that comes from a lack of experience compared to his so-called "hardass" peers. He sees the other bots as boring and overly serious which contributes to his desire to keep Noah on the team. He wants Someone who he can relate to, someone who's a little closer to him personality-wise, and he doesn't feel like his older and more grim teammates can fill that role.

Which I think also contributes to his likability! Because like I said, Mirage is so genuine. He doesn't usually think things through so everything he says is so honest and unfiltered. I love Jazz because of his complexity and how compelling that facade is to his character, but I ended up loving Mirage because he doesn't feel the need for a mask at all.

I think generally the choice to change Mirage's personality from his G1 characterization was because the writers didn't want too many serious characters? At least that's how it felt watching the movie. I mean even Bumblebee comes off as older and more mature than Mirage. And Transformers is very fond of its goofy, unserious kid-appeal characters who are closest to the token humans. I'm cool with it mainly because big changes between generations are pretty common and this wouldn't be the first or even the wildest change of pace from one appearance to the next. As for why Mirage and not another character, who really knows. Probably the fact that he hasn't had much of an established personality in any of his rare TV appearances. And using a known name is usually easier than making a whole new character, just fan-attachment-wise.

Anyways, sum total thoughts: I liked him! And the movie's enjoyable if you don't go taking it too seriously, though that could be said about most things. It's also better with a friend! It's no ground-breaking cinema, it's an action franchise movie and exactly what you'd expect from one. But the characters have chemistry and personality and that's usually what matters to me. So yeah, all nitpicks aside it's a net positive from me!

#rise of the beasts #transformers #maccadam #rotb mirage #rotating Mirage's goofy ass in my head

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raayllum · 11 months

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Hi Rayllum. Noni again

Hope all is well.

One criticism that I constantly see over and over again is how S4 completely destroyed Rayla's character. Saying that the writers did completely ruin and destroyed Rayla's character for no reason at all. That they did such a disservice to her, why didn't they not give her any growth at all in S4. I've been seeing it on both reddit and YouTube. Why did the writers make her unlikable, how TTM was completely unnecessary. How Runaan and Ethari don't seem to love Rayla at all in seasons 1-3, among others things. Like such unnecessary harsh and cruel criticism towards the writers about how they ruined Rayla's character.

Which I don't agree with to an extent. Even though I had my issues with how they handled Rayla in S4, I feel that the writers foreshadowed things in S4 that might have happened to her, what she possibly went through during those two years as well as having some strong levels of importance and growth for her character development going forward. I know you've mentioned this before about those who don't pay attention or see what's going on with Rayla. It just bothers and upsets me that some people really don't truly understand Rayla's character at all or don't even see some of her changes in S4.

Hope you don't mind this. I just want to see S5 so badly because I have a feeling this is where Rayla's character arc is going to really shine and prosper going forward and in the seasons to come. I can't wait to see it. S5 is about to unleash the tides, and I'm so here for it.

Much love, fam. Keep being awesome ❤️

Thank you for sharing your thoughts! I've said before I definitely would've appreciated more insight into Rayla's time away in S4, but that's more of a "I hope the show addresses this eventually" thing than "this is a fault of this specific season" tbh.

To me, the biggest thing that's indicative of 1) how well people are grasping her characterization and 2) how well people are able to predict her plot arcs comes down to one thing, which is really whether TTM surprised them or not.

Because like, did I see Rayla walking away coming? No, I didn't. But did I know this specific issue of "Rayla is too self sacrificial and prone to trying to do things alone" was going to be the biggest relationship hurdle her and Callum will have to jump? Yeah, I did, ever since 2x07 happened, and then I just waited for her tendencies to be brought up again in a negative light for like, 3+ years afterwards. Because you don't have a character say shit like "Don't you worry about my hand, the egg is all that matters now" and "It doesn't matter what happens to me" and especially "But if I die, I'll just be paying the price they should have paid a long time ago" and have it go nowhere. Previously, I thought Rayllum would have a smaller arc and a big blow out fight, but in retrospect a more dramatic route like this makes sense

A lot of meta and predictions is a guessing game, for sure, but while we might not always (or even often) assemble the puzzle pieces in the right manner, I think being able to identify the puzzle pieces at all is 1) a skill and 2) kinda important. Reviews aren't necessarily 'analysis' per se, and people are allowed to have opinions / feel however they want of course, but like - idk, not all critique is either made in good faith and/or grounded in canon nevermind analysis, y'know?

#thanks for asking #anonymous #rayllum fandom #s4 #arc 2

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crehador · 8 months

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2 18 25 ! 🪱

combining these!

2) what work of yours, if any, are you the most embarrassed about existing?

all of them no in all seriousness uhhh maybe the one that necessitated these tags

of my three appare-ranman fics two were so uwu and then there was this old man bastard yaoi lol

9) what, if anything, do you do for inspiration?

i feel like i rarely actively seek out inspiration these days, it comes from everywhere! there's too much of it in fact!! my problem has always been too many ideas and not enough time/creative ability to write them all

for icsm especially it comes from all over the place, everything reminds me of them lmao like i'll just be watching haruki play totk and my no thoughts head empty icsm only brain will be like "oh oh oh samatoki plays totk"

12) your weaknesses as an author

oh so so many and i don't even say that as a bad thing, it is always good to know you have room to improve!

i think one of my biggest weaknesses is descriptive writing. not all writing has to be Very descriptive to be good, but it is something i would like to improve on in my own work

another is... earnestness, maybe? like sometimes i worry i pull away from meaningful moments when i should be leaning in to them

also action scenes/fight scenes! i don't write them very often and would love more practice with those

13) your strengths as an author

i hope it's dialogue and comedy lol because i am always writing those a lot and they are very fun to write! lovely commenters have also said on some occasions that i am good at characterization which feels almost too generous but would be neat if true

like personally i don't think my characters (in fanfic) are necessarily always the most in-character, but i do think one of my strengths is keeping characterization consistent and believable within a fic. so even if it's maybe a bit off from canon, within an isolated fic it more or less tracks and ends up feeling (i hope) like 'good' characterization

18) were there any works you read that affected you so much that it influenced your writing style? what were they?

many!! i don't think i have enough self-awareness to know exactly what affected me in what way, but i was one of those book-a-day kids growing up (oh to read that regularly again) and i'm sure many of those works influenced me greatly

i was also a memory-issues kid so i would struggle to remember what was most impactful though lmao

while it doesn't answer this question directly one thing i do remember is always struggling with like reading something great and thinking "this is good writing! and i don't write like this! therefore i must be a shit writer!" which is a way of thinking that is very important to unlearn lol (good writing can be good in different ways!)

so my recent journey has been more about not deliberately trying to emulate other writers too much, though i had a disastrously long phase of my youth in which i read way too many old white guys so tbh i probably write like an old white guy rn

25) copy/paste a few sentences or a short paragraph that you’re particularly proud of

the first thing that came to mind was a moment in pride (tg!au) but it's like the moment that i kind of don't want to pull out of context lol (the "i like you weird" conversation)

so i will go with a bit from stay gold that i skimmed again and don't hate:

"I would have rather had your bite," Usui admitted candidly, palming the gold coin and making it disappear into his sleeve once more. "I would have rather known you were capable of mourning your own life, of believing its loss would be worth avenging. But when you wouldn't bite down, even when I forced the coin between your teeth, even as your life bled away from you, I came to a realization. "It didn't matter if it was your bite or mine, if it was your choice or mine. There was a time when I believed the choice to live could only be made by you and you alone, and I must confess I still long for the day you'll be able to choose to live for yourself once more. "But until that day arrives, until you are prepared to make that choice, the others and I will choose for you. Because what matters to us, Taishin-sensei, is that you live."

#asks #ask games #hi worm!#dang i kind of want to rewatch revenger now #i'm still so so so feral about the thing they pulled with the names a;sldkjfa;lskdfj #WHICH IIRC WAS NOT LIKE #EXPLAINED IN THE SUBS AT ALL #U EITHER KNOW THE KANJI OR U COMPLETELY MISS THIS INCREDIBLY SIGNIFICANT CHARACTER MOMENT A;SDLKFJ;LK

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wistfulrat · 3 years

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a 4-part rec list of my fave drarry fics - the thrillers, dramas, soft bois, and wankbanks getting me through 2020′s shitstorm

[the soft boi list is here and truly i’m not surprised this rec is going to be the longest bc if there’s one thing a bitch is going to do, it’s yearn.

as always! if you love a fic, follow the authors, leave kudos & comments, send them nice msgs bc free art is still labor xoxo]

part 3: soft bois

mood: for when I need respite, a balm to the all-consuming shittiness of life

includes: fluff, comfort, low-stakes, slow-burn fics. a wistful look, a rainy morning, an unexpected grace, a stupidly disarming joke. i could live inside these fics. the smallness of human lives removed from the site of that which hurts & irreparably changes. the story-equivalent of a deep breath after a long day. pregnant silences & pensive mundanity & shy smiles. banter with bite but without the cruelty. the color lavender. weirdly whimsical. soft fics are not necessarily conflict-averse (no drarry fic rly can be, considering the context) but, they offer the reader a generous distance from the initial harm. they’re the quiet cleaning up after a storm. sometimes healing is an exacting surgical knife and other times it’s a slow scabbing. you read these fics to be reassured that the way forward is not always ruthless. and honestly?? they deserve a semblance of peace godDAMmit.

The Way Down by @letteredlettered - 65k - T “and I thought that if someone talked to you as though you were a human being you might—maybe you could act like one” --the way i think about this line daily. the characterization of draco in this fic is one my favorites bc he’s earnest and neurotic and tired of harry’s shit. which is to say, he cares so so much. and harry doesn’t know what to do with that bc he’s got a monster in his chest and lives as a recluse. but they both humanize each other in ways no one else can. “you’re just a person” has to be some kind of drarry ethics of belonging and it makes me CRY. -

Little Deaths and How to Avoid Them by @greaseonmymouth and dustmouth - 96k - T “Maybe it’s not about deserving it? Maybe you just get to have it anyway. . .I’m allowing myself to want something and to let myself have it and to fight for it.” --harry runs a daycare and also works at a library. draco spends a lot of time in said library. they bond over sci-fi books and therapy anecdotes and quiet philosophical conversations held over cafeteria soup. and harry’s struggling to understand his asexuality. draco’s learning how to live with anxiety and depression. they both want to be deserving of love. incredible fic with beautiful art by dustmouth. -

Open for Repairs by @drarrytrash - 35k - T “A few leaves rustle in the gutter and the muggle world pays no mind to them, to two lost boys holding on for dear life.” --all of their fics feel exactly like this. like you’ve been allowed to look at something private, tender, unexpected. draco, known abba fan, is a repairman in the muggle world & harry can’t stop breaking thrifted things in order to see him? say less, i'm thERE. also “I think I have a crush on you” goddddd - other faves by them: Counting Down By Ten - 2k - T: draco’s stepped outside of the party for a smoke. harry follows him bc of course he does. i could read this 100 times and not get tired of it. - Clouds That Veil the Midnight Moon - 36k - E: FUCKING HILARIOUS I CACKLED THROUGH THE WHOLE THING. draco’s wolfy problem and harry helping him and harry being flustered by how much he likes draco and draco’s hot heroic moment. shutup it’s perfect. “He almost asks if Draco ever gets tired of being a miserable complaining shit all the time, but he knows that he, personally, never ever gets tired of being a miserable complaining shit.” and “It’s the traumas,” Harry says gravely” --lines that live rent free in my head -

Harry Potter and the Future He Doesn't Really Want, Thanks by seefin - 70k - E “That was the only logical thing to do here, wasn’t it? It was the next step, it was the end of hurting each other and the beginning of the exact opposite.” --harry lives with luna and neville and also he dreams about the future sometimes? and he keeps running into draco. draco thinks this is sus as hell, until he doesn’t. feat. taxi rides, museums, cinemas, rooftop conversations beneath a lunar eclipse, mid-sex innocuous banter, draco and harry discussing nicki minaj. this fic charmed my ass off. seefin writes the most effortlessly hilarious dialogues. i smiled at my phone like an idiot at least 7 times. - other faves by them: Wild - 93k - E: “he liked feeling needed, for the things that he was needed for back at the house in Ireland. For cooking and gardening and driving. Easy things.” --this shit makes me cry it’s so good. harry lives in Ireland with these three brilliant, hilarious, wandless witches and draco’s a potions student who's come to study under one of the housemates and the boys have so much shit to work through but their love becomes so tender and honest. draco yells at harry a lot and harry lets him and they both keep each other grounded in something real and fuCK. - Divination for Dickheads - 7k - G: “I’m terrible at having crushes. I’ve never played anything cool a day in my life.” -- oh harry, we knOW. a bus ride, a fortune teller, an aquarium birthday party. god i love this fic. -

Modern Love by @tackytigerfic - 61k - E “But we’ve worked so hard at this, haven’t we? Yeah, I know it’s a horror to have to talk about it, but fuck it. We’re friends now, but it took so long to get here. Have you ever had to work so hard at something before?" --the steady blossoming of their friendship in this fic is so goddamn beautiful i want to yell. it’s draco and harry learning to trust each other and the whole thing unfolds so slowly, in this whimsical mix of london streets, wizarding politics, church halls feat. a Hot vicar, and a magical antique shop owner who’s married to literal poseidon?? goD the environment of this fic. immaculate. [also there’s a tender shower scene that makes me cry every single fucking time so if you read this fic pls dm me so we can be embarrassing about it together tbh] -

Nice Things by aideomai - 22k - M “He kept waiting for the weird shock of touch to not knock him clean out of his head, leave him quiet and warm and happy.” --8th year. harry forms an unlikely friendship with draco that begins with smoking weed on a windowsill. harry is touch-starved and draco touches him like he touches all his close friends - like it��s easy. the quiet affection in this fic, the way harry burrows himself into touch bc he’s been without it for his entire life. reading this is like being held. -

Running On Air by @tinyhistory - 74k - T “do you remember when we were eleven?” --alexa play coldplay’s the scientist it’s sad girl hours and we’re about to fucking yearn. you’ve seen this fic rec on every drarry list under the sun and i'm here to be redundant. the hype is so goddamn real. this story is a lyrical masterpiece held together by lines that act as refrains that will rattle around your brain until you die, probably. draco’s been missing for 3yrs. harry goes to find him. it’s their odyssey of homecoming. -

Title of Their Sex Tape by @cibeewastaken - 12k - T “But Draco, Draco was everything but boring. Draco made sitting in the rain watching an empty house fun.” --auror partners pining and draco being eccentric and harry being very earnestly gay about draco’s eccentricities!! god this fic is so genuinely fun skskd feat. undercover missions, murderous faeries, a book heist, a stunning navy dress, harry’s eyelashes. -

How We Throw Our Shadows Down by @thistle-verse - 14k - T “Draco is about to say something else— to thank Potter for what he’d done, however poorly— but Harry is smiling at him again, and it’s so soft and perfect that Draco holds in any inadequate words, lest he spoil it.” --draco collects tea cozies and of course harry has the one he wants. the sad and tender gays are at it again feat. conversations in the rain at a train station, melancholy Blaise, muggle photos, wizarding e-bay, the Dursleys. -

Helix by Saras_Girl - 92k - E “Draco sighs in his sleep and Harry clings on to consciousness, needing to hold on, to give this tiny, insignificant moment the attention it deserves” --I think maybe you can describe every soft Saras_Girl story as giving tiny, insignificant moments the attention they deserve. like, this is an 8th year fic about snails and it’s full of whimsy, grief, compassion, and easy humor. an absolute must-read author in this genre if you want languorous, episodic fics full of distinct OCs and affectionate creatures. - other faves by them: Light up the Night Sky - 98k - M “Draco, sometimes you make my head feel like soup” --the one where harry is a fireworks artist and has a pet chameleon named ken. draco is on the wizarding arts council. they both pine like hell. - Headlights in the Snow - 71k - M “they stare at each other in silence, Harry’s heart beating so loud in his chest that he thinks the biddies must be able to hear it over the sound of their card game.” --the one where draco drives the knight bus and carts around the biddy club, a group of rambunctious old ladies who knit and drink tea and gossip. harry can’t help but fall in love with the everything about this. -

Follow the Water by @xanthippe74 - 38k - T “Harry’s heavy thoughts lift at the sight, like dark clouds blown away from the sun by the wind. The tent doesn’t feel so cramped and stifling now. It feels cozy. And safe. It’s the same feeling that Harry gets when he’s at the Burrow for Sunday roasts, when a group of people who care for each other deeply are crammed into too-small a space.” --harry wanders to the lovegood house on a sunday afternoon. he’s baffled to see that luna’s taken pansy, greg, and draco under her wing. what follows is a summer of forest walks, scavenger hunts, gardening, water fights, odd cakes, faerie rings, and picnics. so many picnics. i love the pace of this fic, the innocent return to childhood things, the way luna brings out the best in all her friends. reluctantly soft slytherins are just *chefs kiss*!! -

Going Postal (A 125pg comic) by dustmouth - T what. a. beautiful. ass. comic. the wizarding fashion, the textures, the character design!! harry travels a lot for his job as a resourcer. draco works in the regulations dept. they pine like a bunch of lovesick idiots via field report notes. god i love dustmouth’s art. -

All the Earnest Young Men by @tepre - 29k - E “Draco is twenty-seven layers of personality wrapped up in drama and humour, and a wit so sharp it still stings when he doesn’t see it coming. But there is something below that, too. Something that makes Harry ache just looking at him.” --the way i would lay down my little life for tepre’s characterization of draco, whom invented the word earnest. he’s a magical art theory expert and portraits are disappearing all over London and harry’s the auror assigned to this case. and well. they’re both so very avoidant about how gay they are for each other and it’s like!! shutup and kiss!! which they do in fact, shutup and kiss. -

Trenches by sara_holmes - 3k - M “Somewhere in the distant part of his mind that hasn't frozen solid, he thinks that maybe he and Draco are about to become more than auror partners, smoking buddies, wine-mates and co-inhabitants of a snow filled trench somewhere in western Scotland.” --the plot line here is literally “it’s cold and i need a fucking cigarette” but let me tell you how I never tire of the shared loaded-silences of two emotionally repressed gays. -

The Years Before Love by lomonaaeren - 13k - M “That’s one of the meanings of peace, he thinks, as Hermione hugs him...That he can do things slowly, softly, without worrying that they won’t be there tomorrow.” --andromeda taking harry under her wing and harry finding solace in teddy. narcissa and draco showing up and the tentative relationships that slowly develop in the quiet calm of andromeda’s house. found families and kisses in the snow and special xmas gifts ugh what’s not to love -

The Moon Looks Lovely Tonight by Omi_Ohmy - 35k - M “I want this to be a house where people are welcome, where they don’t have to be any one way or another” --in which harry collects lost things--owls, best friends, inept bakers, potions experimenters--and turns the mausoleum that is grimmauld place into a home. feat. your fave drarry tropes like shared-beds and reluctant waltzing partners. -

[part 1: thrillers | part 2: dramas | part 3: soft bois | part 4: wankbanks]

#drarry fic rec #drarry fic #soft drarry #OK FINE I RAMBLED BUT WHAT DID WE EXPECT #alexa play futile devices

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booasaur · 2 years

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Just saw your gif set about Audrey and Till. When season 2 started and Audrey changed to a completely new character I thought the writers just didn't know what to do with her, same with Wilfords sudden obsession with her when until then he was all like "Melanie, Melanie, Snowpiercer" but now I actually think the Audrey thing makes sense. She had the opportunity to develop and grow without her abuser and then was trust upon him again and started regressing into the person she knew he would love, and she has been chasing that from that moment on. But then they got back to the train all those things happened and I think she saw Wilford like that and the hero worship, obsession and "love" that she thought she felt disappeared, I think Audrey can only be interested in a cunning and dangerous Wilford because that was how he groomed her, now tho he has nothing and once again they are being kept apart so I think she is having a easier time going back to who she was

I'm just still really confused, because she doesn't seem--well, I mean, I suppose that's maybe realistic, too, that someone who doesn't seem or even isn't outwardly horrible could still love and be with a terrible person...? But then the way she acted when he was all shaken after waking up again, that was pretty brutal. And the thing is, unlike in real life where people can be pretty isolated from the effects of their family's horrible actions, she could see it all very up close.

But tbh, I think you have the reason for the switch in your post, but it's not necessarily, or only, about Audrey's character so much as that they needed someone to fill in that role once Melanie was out. Or maybe even more than that, the show needed for Wilford to have someone on his side, someone interesting that we cared about, not just poor Kevin, as everyone else slowly moved over to Layton's side. Audrey certainly offered that, and indeed, could offer a more interesting angle about surviving through all this, especially when she realizes even Wilford is now allying with Alex and presumably Layton.

I'm actually not opposed to this ship at all, two first season characters who are legit interesting and have actual roles in the show that aren't guest star love interest, I mean, that's actually pretty great on paper. And they've taken the time to actually give them interactions and screentime together this season soooo. As long as this isn't something because the writers ran out of what to do with one or both and the next step is to kill off one or both for angst, I could be pretty into them.

ETA on April 3, 2022:

Actually, I’ve really rethought what I wrote here, based on rewatching s2, which, my bad, I must have just blanked out a ton of. When I’d watched live, I’d still been very annoyed at Jinju’s disappearance, a double whammy of homophobia and racism in wiping out a significant queer Asian character without any mention from Bess and Melanie, and skimmed a lot and what I did watch, I didn’t fully take in or absorb, I guess?

Because I seem to have skipped or plain forgotten major chunks of the story that were quite relevant to Audrey’s characterization. The more I rewatched, the more started to come back but none of that had been in mind when I was watching the end of s2 or s3.

She was groomed, as you said, anon, and I think a lot of what came after was to try to justify that, to make it worth it. She was actually scared of going back to him at first and warned the rest about him. They sent her back, to be their spy, and she even seemed to try to resist falling back into his thrall, like, he’d made her cut her freaking wrists. And we know how hard it is to resist him, look at poor Alex too, who’s only a little younger than Audrey was he got her hooks into her, since at 18 she was already with him.

And when Wilford was weaker in s3 after waking up from the suspension drug, for a bit, what really got to me during Audrey’s rant was her saying “science is nothing without power, you told me that”. She’s really just trying to justify her past actions AND what happened to her, that it was all necessary. Because if it wasn’t, then not only are all her horrible choices and decisions pointless but so was everything that happened to her.

So yeah, while she has done a lot of bad things and encouraged and ignored more, and turned in s2, as you said, into a seemingly almost completely different person, indulging in alcohol and orgies and turning a blind eye to Wilford’s cruelty, with the previous context, I’m much more willing to forgive her as a victim of abuse who fell back into destructive patterns when her abuser returned.

#the way I've been trying to answer this for days lol #replies #femslash related stuff #sent on 20220309 #Anonymous #snowpiercer #brakenight #I know this is airing like right now but I've been on a project call for the last three hours #and it hasn't finished yet it's just quiet right now #miss audrey

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bigskydreaming · 4 years

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How do you counter a Bruce hater? Not the 'never read comics so Bruce Wayne is a useless rich guy who should redistribute his wealth' hater, an actual hater who'd root for some villains like Ivy or Harley, want him gone so the Robins & Selina don't have to listen to him or care about him, thinks he should be obsolete because he's Idk.. old and has too many comics maybe? Genuine hater who somehow really loves his kids but not him. Doesn't hate the older version tho, acknowledges some parts..

I think it just comes down to why you want to counter them, tbh? Don’t get me wrong, I TOTALLY get being defensive of a fave, and respect how these fictional characters still nevertheless mean a great deal to us for various reasons.....but we hate various characters for a ton of different reasons as well. Bruce is....an especially complicated subject, because he’s such a CHARGED subject. He’s one of the oldest comic book characters out there, and he’s EXTREMELY polarizing....because people see radically different things when they look at him. Both canon writers and the fans.

And thus we so often get these different takes on him that are literally AT ODDS with each other....the loving, caring father who is ideal for his kids because he wants to be for them what he never really had for himself vs the absent, neglectful father due to being a brooding, emotionally stunted lone wolf who believes he’s no good for anyone else and is best on his own.

And so the thing is, as much as it sucks, Bruce is one of those figures in comics where because BOTH takes (and everything else in between them) are real, just at different times, and are at such extreme opposite ends of the spectrum......there are reasons for loving his character that are absolutely valid....but there are reasons for hating his character that are absolutely valid as well. It kinda just depends on where your point of entry into the characters and their narratives are, and what your area of focus is.

For instance, its not really that weird that there are people who genuinely hate his character but somehow really love his kids....because I mean, using myself as an example....Dick has always been my character of focus, the one I personally relate to the most and invest in the most, and well, there have been a lot of times when Bruce has been written being extremely shitty to him. And that’s specifically WHAT I hold against Bruce’s character a lot of the time, and its not a contradiction to like Bruce’s kids and not like him.....the way DC has so massively fucked him up in regards to his kids a lot of the times IS the reason people who like his kids don’t like him. And even though its totally the writing that’s to blame, there sometimes comes a point when the problems are so everpresent in the writing of a character that its just too hard for a fan to separate the writing from the character, and it gets all tangled up together and thus you end up with someone hating Bruce, even though its really only certain ways he’s written that originated that.

So I mean, for myself, I don’t hate Bruce, but I DEFINITELY hate the way he’s written a lot of the time....I’m just very much used to centering my writer brain even when I’m reading, and thus its...easier? For me to keep an awareness of when I have a problem with a character inherently vs when I just have a problem with a certain take on a character? So I don’t hate Bruce because I recognize the times he is written well in regards to his kids and I see the potential for that always being there, but that doesn’t stop me from hating on the times he ISN’T written well in regards to them and is basically outright abusive because I mean....that’s part of why I invest in Dick’s narratives so much....I come from an abusive household and as much as I WANT Bruce to be good for Dick, I recognize and see myself and my own story in a lot of Dick’s narratives with Bruce.....which is why I dislike Bruce on a lot of occasions....BUT I also recognize and see in the OVERALL CHARACTERS the potential for Bruce to do what DIDN’T happen in my own life and like....get his act together. Be better. FIX himself and his relationships with his kids so that he can give them the family they deserve.

And so that’s why and where its ideal for me to keep the fact that the flaws are in the writing, not the characters, front and center.

But that’s not necessarily ideal for everyone, is the thing you gotta remember to respect. And other people who might be drawn to Dick and Jason and the other kids’ narratives BECAUSE they relate specifically to them as characters who have dysfunctional or even unhealthy relationships with an abusive or neglectful parent.....they might be less inclined to not hate Bruce because a family resolution isn’t ultimately what they’re looking for when relating to these characters....maybe what’s best for them at this point in their life is to see or imagine stories where these characters break away from a family member who only seems to hurt them lately, to not wait and hope for things to get better or him to improve but to just...move on on their own. *Shrugs* I don’t know, I can’t speak for everyone but none of us can is the thing.

And so its messy as hell, and its not a lot of fun sometimes, but the fact is, we just all gotta try and remember that what we look for in these characters and what we see in them is not the only thing that’s there. There are SO many facets to these characters and their stories and SO many reasons people are drawn to them and SO many things that fans are looking for and hoping for from them.

So my only advice is don’t worry about countering so much as just....holding front and center your own motivations for loving Bruce’s character and the WHYS of it. And its not....it doesn’t have to be one or the other, you know? Its not a zero sum game. As much as it makes it complicated to navigate fandom a lot of times, there’s room for multiple interpretations to exist, and the reasons you love Bruce’s character don’t HAVE to counter or negate the reasons other people hate his character, and vice versa. The reasons other people hate and criticize Bruce don’t HAVE to impact or harm the things you love about him......just focus on speaking to and putting out there your own view of things, and by all means, be as forceful and passionate about that as you want or need to be!

But just....know the reality is that even if you’re trying to persuade someone else to see Bruce the way you do, that doesn’t guarantee they will, or that they have to, because unlike in a lot of instances where people just smear other characters for entirely baseless reasons, a lot of people DO have anti-Bruce sentiments that are rooted in entirely real justifications.....but that’s not an indictment of your pro-Bruce sentiments, and it doesn’t have to be, and you don’t need to take it as one. Which means you don’t have to defend him....there’s nothing to defend, maybe. Your reasons for liking him have nothing to do with someone else’s reasons for hating him and they don’t need to go head to head and duel it out, necessarily.

Honestly, just whenever possible, just try to keep front and center in your mind and your reading of posts that like.....a lot of times “I hate Bruce” is actually more likely “I hate Bruce’s writing in x and y and z situations and stories” and that can make it a LOT easier to digest.

I mean, going back to using myself as an example, obviously I’m hugely vocal in defensive of Dick Grayson, lol, but a lot of people question why I so often attack fanon characterizations of him specifically....and its specifically BECAUSE I’m attacking the tendency of so many fans to say “I hate Dick” when its actually in my eyes more “I hate Dick’s characterization - as depicted in these various fanon myths that only exist in fandom and have no basis outside it.” So THAT’S what I ‘defend’ Dick against more often than not, versus just....defending him against people who hate him - there’s no real counter for that, at the end of the day. You can’t MAKE someone like a character if they have actual real justifications for why.

But you CAN be clear about where it is you do and don’t agree with their view of a character.....is it because you have fundamentally different views of the character that are both rooted in canon basis, or is it because you feel they’re not accurately characterizing a character based on your knowledge of him, or is it because you both simply prioritize and focus on different areas of a character’s past writing? Etc. etc.

That won’t necessarily help you ‘win’ any arguments against an opposing viewpoint in fandom, but it will help you....deal with the existence of opposing viewpoints that have every bit as much validity as yours, I think. Just being able to recognize when someone isn’t criticizing or condemning the Bruce you know and love....its just that the Bruce they know and hate is kinda almost a different version of the character entirely.....but both versions can and do exist and its ultimately just a matter of finding some way to balance that.

I don’t know if that’s of any help at all, but hopefully there’s something in there that’ll be of use to you!

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