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#hotd speculation
moonshine999 · 1 month
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Team Green promotional stills
side note : this “analysis” is only limited to the promotional stills and I’ll probably do the trailer/posters a bit later. Also that this is just speculation and most of it is probably bs because I just woke up from a nap and decided to start typing.
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this might be one of two things
a) Larys talking to b&c in the dungeon..possibly informing them of their punishment OR watching their punishment unfold
b) Him talking to Aegon about fleeing King’s Landing or actually fleeing King’s Landing
now this also may be where Larys says the “survived dragon-fire” line if it is the second scenario
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I would really like to think of this as a scene where Aemond expresses more emotion to Criston about what happened at Storm’s end.
If you notice then Criston seems to be in his night clothes while Aemond is still in his “fighting” or training clothes (if that makes sense).
possibly to indicate how at ease Criston would be trying to make him feel while talking about this but Aemond just keeping his guard up.
it also does look like Aemond is trying to avert his gaze while Criston talks
Also if the above is true (which is highly unlikely actually), then it would serve as a great parallel to Alicent & Aegon with the candles of the sept vs the candles Criston has lit in …possibly his chambers?
Im not very sure about this particular shot at all so even though I’d like to, going into detail on the above point seems useless
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SERVING CUNT
okay so all possible times we may see Aegon at the coucil basically come down to a) the first episode as an introduction and b) after b&c
If it is his introduction, then he is probably zoned out here - thinking of something else and playing around with his dagger until (according to the leaks) he is snapped out of it by either a council member or a guard informing that Helaena needs him
But if it's after b&c then he may be zoned out because he refuses to listen to other council members dictate what he should "rationally" do at this time. His mind would be struck with grief and a want for revenge and maybe the placement of the knife near his face like that is no ordinary mistake.
He is probably plotting something here on his own (could be the reason he could ask Larys for help) and it would be such a good parallel, if he's sort of snapped out of it again by the thought of Helaena
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phia saban is turning your kids GAY
so we know this is the funeral dress…the two main questions are whether it’s after the funeral or before the funeral and who she’s looking at
my personal bet is before the funeral. This is because she still looks a bit composed as she not seen her son’s body / refused to see it since that night probably because she realises she can’t handle it
(don’t exactly know if the above bit is phrased properly at all but hope the point gets across)
also in details of the shot itself…her veil isn’t tied on yet and her hair is undone/not braided yet..signalling that she is still getting dressed.
As for who she is looking at…the safest bet is either Alicent or Aegon (considering the situation these two are the people who would understand her emotions best)
If it is Alicent.. then it’s most likely her providing comfort to her daughter and sharing feelings/thoughts of what it means to be a mother
And if it is Aegon (which I do think is more likely and that is not just the helaegon manic shipper in me)… then it would probably be him trying to justify not being there (in the room when it happened) and probably promising that he will get revenge for such a heinous act (or something along those lines)
another note : I did not do Alicent’s promo shot because I think that shot could be anything and I personally did not notice any details that could specify the situation or what she may be doing
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alicenttully · 2 months
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i feel like if they chose to go in the direction of not only officially confirming alicole feelings but that they were also physically intimate, it would feel most natural to me to have that physical side of their relationship only develop in the time skip after episode 7/after the events of driftmark.
there are numerous reasons why i think it works better in this time skip rather than in the one in episode 6 (where 10 years have passed). one, given alicents fears about the security of her children, she's not going to have an affair. the alicent who was against helaena's betrothal because she saw that rhaenyra was desperate to protect her sons right is probably going to be an alicent that recognises that rhaenyra would absolutely use any adultery of alicent to undermine her and shield her own sons from rumours of their bastardry if rhaenyra found out about it.
secondly, she's a religious women in a feudal medieval setting. her faith is dear to her and while she isn't attracted to viserys, she doesn't want to "betray" their wedding vows (even though she never wanted to marry him in the first place, it was viserys who sought her) by sleeping with another man, even someone as close to her as criston.
thirdly, as alicent is still so young, they're not going to want to risk her getting pregnant. however what makes this time skip really important is that it's these 10 years which creates the tension between them that we see in episode 6 onwards and its a good foundation for this potential consummation in the 6 years that pass after laena velaryon's funeral. driftmark is turning point for alicent when it comes to viserys. whatever faith she has in him is shaken. he is weak. and i highly doubt that her anger at viserys over how he treated what hapened to aemond suddenly just magically went away overnight. nope, most people are going to be angry for a long time and it's this anger which i think drives her first encounter with criston, who does not like viserys. he's part of his kingsguard but it's alicent that he's devoted to.
the idea behind it makes more sense when you factor in the death of laenor velayron, who from the greens pov, rhaenyra got rid of, and her marriage to daemon targaryen, a marriage that viserys should have demanded be annulled but chose not to. so with everything, why does it matter if alicent and criston decide to succumb once to their attraction? and it's this that potentially leads to more
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Consider
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Season two opening shot: Rhaenyra at Shipbreaker Bay searching for Luke's body
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Season two closing shot: Alicent at The Gods Eye searching for Aemonds body
Neither of them finds their sweet baby boy and they're both irreparably broken....
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Playing a little game with the HOTD S2 teaser trailer called "can I identify scenes". Nothing but spoilers (major, major spoilers) under the cut:
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Rhaenyra at Storm's End looking for Luke's body, as reported in leaks.
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Stokeworth and Rosby shields - this is the Sack of Duskendale / Battle at Rook's Rest. From leaks (re what happens to Meleys, um) we know that BRR is this season, probably near the end of it.
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Criston cutting some guy's head off - possibly the execution of Lord Staunton after the battle of Rook's Rest. Staunton's head and Meleys's head were taken to KL and paraded.
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may be Nettles, but I think more likely to be Addam of Hull, as that's Seasmoke.
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It's a bit blurry, but pretty sure those are Darklyn shields. (<nerd> incorrect Darklyn shields, too many white shields for this point in history, they haven't had that many Darklyns in the Kingsguard yet.</nerd>) More from the Sack of Duskendale/Battle of Rook's Rest.
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Possibly executions during Daemon's Assault on Harrenhal? Although that was Aemond who killed the Strongs in F&B... that's definitely a weirwood, though... but then, most castles have weirwoods, not just Harrenhal. Could also be part of the Taking of Stone Hedge.
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Something in the North, almost certainly, but not sure what. Maybe the Winter Wolves leaving?
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Seasmoke's back, back again. Rumors are that Laenor just gives him up or something? Lore nerds will freak ("a dragon never has two living riders!"), but babes, this is where you have to just relax and remember the show is not the books.
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Nice establishing shot of the Dragonpit. The Storming will not be this season, but it'll be useful to compare once the show gets there.
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This is either Prince Jaehaerys' funeral or the parade after Rook's Rest, but I think that's the carriage that was carrying Alicent and Helaena in mourning clothes (as seen in leaks), so possibly the former. OTOH leaks had a drum being beaten while Meleys's head was paraded, so it might be the latter. We'll see I guess!
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Probably at Rook's Rest, trying to get the fuck away from Meleys's fire.
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speaking of which. Rosby shields on the ground, that early scene where they were standing is probably right before Rhaenys and Meleys arrived.
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yay Baela gets to do something. Wonder if she arrives at BRR too late to help, but in time to see Rhaenys's body? Would be a good setup for her and Aegon later.
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KG doing the Secret Service thing with Alicent. Some kind of public panic, this may be in relation to the Meleys parade because the book says it made everyone want to leave KL, so they may have changed that up a bit.
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Brackens, probably the Battle of the Burning Mill / Taking of Stone Hedge.
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Assault on Harrenhal, probably.
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well we all know what this is. 😭
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ah shit, Erryk fighting in someone's bedroom? Cargyll twin vs twin, probably, I knew it was early in the war, but I liked him. 😔
Not screencapping this bit, but the cut that makes it look like Aemond is fighting Rhaenyra on their dragons is oh-so-clever to play with audience expectations.
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Rook's Rest, the ground is all smoky because of Meleys, and shit here comes Vhagar to make it worse.
A few scenes I have no idea what's happening yet, like the Helaena underwater scene and Alicent in her nightgown at the Gods Eye... are we getting dream scenes at last? Would be a nice changeup. Could be POV prophecies also. Well, looking forward to it!
edit to correct: Helaena's not underwater, that's a veil, undoubtedly a mourning veil. 😭
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lemonhemlock · 1 month
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it seems to me that, with the darksvster script transcripts (thank you for your service, first of all🙏), some are feeling in bit of a tight spot, because they fear their interpretation of the show will be proven wrong and, god knows, there's nothing worse on this earth than Being Proven Wrong On The Internet, right? 🤦‍♀️
i would just like to make note of the fact that this perception is absolutely self-induced and artificially-created and that everyone should take a breather and stop being an arsehole about this.
the media text exists as you saw on screen: if you add or subtract certain elements, the meaning will change. this is an obvious tenet of how interpretation works: it is influenced by what is there, not by what is not there.* sometimes even a small detail can completely derail the meaning of a scene. sometimes it just adds context. sometimes it introduces a new aspect altogether.
so (and this goes for both teams) no one is being retroactively dumb for not reading the writers' minds and not being prescient enough to anticipate all versions of the scripts. if you were proven right, cool. if you read something that disagreed with some of your previously-defended takes, you may feel a bit miffed, but how could you have known? it's not that serious. you shouldn't feel like your reputation is on the line and go into fight-or-flight mode or resort to bullying (the favourite pastime of this fandom, ofc). if you want to positively participate in fandom, worry about backing up your interpretations of what actually aired on screen with solid arguments instead.
some of you conflate your personhood and sense of self-worth way too much with your fandom of choice and it's making you act all kinds of goofy.
*ofc there are situations in which the absence of certain topics can say quite a lot about the writer, but there is a difference between choosing not to address certain social, racial, political dimensions at play in a work of fiction vs the absence of random plot points or tidbits of characterisation no one could have possibly guessed at unless they literally possessed a crystal ball
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peters-lab-partner · 8 months
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If this is moment is what I think it’s going to be, then does that mean that Criston has to watch as his eldest boy falls from the sky and nearly dies?
If so, then I am not ready
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ladysansalannister · 3 months
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Current favorite theory about HOTD season 2 is that Helaena will be pregnant with Maelor, and Aemond is the father (while Aegon is the father of the twins)
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witheredoffherwitch · 1 month
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Many speculate that Otto's words, "they wish now not for the good of the realm, but for the satisfaction of vengeance," are spoken in a scene taking place after B&C.
However, I believe this dialogue actually takes place in Episode 1, and refers to Aemond's killing of Lucerys. You can even spot Alicent freaking out in the background, wearing the same dress she wears during the council scene later.
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tweedstoat · 5 months
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If they cut the Shepherd call me a Kings Landing peasant circa 130 AC because I'm storming the Dragonpit (HBO headquarters)
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mejcinta · 7 months
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How can I squeeze Da*myra plotting together in Harrenhal, Aemond and Criston closing in on Harrenhal, Rhaenyra and Daemon soaring close to KL in a huge reveal and Aemond arriving to nothing in Harrenhal as Alys watches on in shock....all in one episode? 😁😁
I mean, Clare Kilner stating season 2 will end with a 'good ending' tells me there will be a hint of victory for the Blacks. 🤷🏾‍♀️
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moonshine999 · 5 months
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Spill your post trailer Helaegon ideas with us please😩
hellooo, I will try my utmost best to articulate them.. sensibly
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as the teaser stands, the performances by Tom and Phia genuinely look phenomenal. It seems stealing the spotlight worthy, especially Phia. Since this is the first season we get to explore her character and also her last season because damn you writers, it looks like she’s really giving it her all and I’m genuinely so excited to see that. details? Love that they grew Aegon’s hair out, the Helaena shot of her looking up might be one most ethereal shots I’ve witnessed, the aegon strut was legit everything. things I am not much a fan of though is the costuming (for them, more so Aegon because we haven’t seen any Helaena dresses in full, at least officially). Because though I love the sunfyre embroidery on his outfit now, it literally looks no different from the coronation costume at first glance. Sure it is dark green instead of black but like cmon. Give aegon pretty costumes 😌. Also sad we didn’t see Sunfyre, Dreamfyre is understandable but come on, we see Syrax and not the most beautiful dragon in the world? Not the dragon who had the strongest dragon-rider bond in history with Aegon? Not the dragon who ends up killing Rhaenyra?? THE FUCK.
but I’ll stop complaining because the teaser is nice and these are just nitpicks about the definite bias. .
. Okay the next things I’m gonna cover are more so ideas for scenes rather than a breakdown or analysis cuz we literally got 2 shots of each of them 🥲
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🕯️Helaena’s visions
I did see quite a few posts saying/implying that we will dive more into Helaena’s visions this season. So I do think it would be interesting to understand that dynamic with her and Aegon when she has them. Like has he matured enough to understand that even though he can’t comprehend his wife, she needs his help OR he still thinks that she is acting idiotic as he did in s1. The leak that said something along the lines that Aegon will first be seen at the council, bored but then is called to attend to his queen could also tie into this. Maybe Helaena isn’t crouching over due to pain of pregnancy ,as some have speculated , but due to the suddenness or pain of one of her visions.
(also I have put a one shot surrounding this in the W.I.P folder along with the thousand others lying there so expect it in about 80 years 😃)
🕯️just them handling being king and queen
this is a pretty vague thing but literally just show them. Just show them getting along, sitting at councils, dragon riding, sleeping in the same room, all before b&c rips everything down. Even one scene of them together handling this can work, in fact just one scene of them being soft with each other would just go to show what it was like and what it could have been like had the war not happened. Just adding more tragedy to their story.
🕯️flashbacks
another pretty vague one. But as I said in this post , I really do think we should have seen them as kids, how they get along and especially their wedding. They could perhaps fit it in, in the episode of the funeral. Aegon or Hela looking back on that day, when things were arguably simpler and their only concerns were stopping Aegon from crying during sex. (IM SORRY, WE ALL KNOW IT HAPPENED)
okay more seriously though, them reminiscing on the past i.e. the day their union was first formed on the day it all broke apart. They as parents should be allowed to feel that grief, with each other and I genuinely hope we don’t get robbed of that. speaking of them as parents though…
🕯️the kids
it is actually so unsettling that half the fans didn’t even realise that they have kids until b&c started being talked about.
Again I beg, SHOW THEM. show them talking to Jaehaerys about becoming heir, how Aegon would go back to his memory of his mother doing the same to him (could also come under flashbacks). Show them trying to stop Maelor to stop crying, show them sitting with their kids at the feast, show them trying to manage their duties as well as their kids.
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but alas it’s just speculation, half of them just wishes. Let’s hope we get some glimpse of their dynamic is season 2 because my god helaegon nation is starving.
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alicenttully · 8 months
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if the speculation about dyana's storyline and the framing of it is correct, then it's just going to highlight the racism (can you expose something that's already well known?) of the GOT/ASOIAF audience who make up HOTD's viewership.
it's going to expose their racism if they give all the sympathy/understanding in the world to dyana (btw please refrain this from trying to twist this into me saying she would be unworthy of the audience's kindness) that they refused to give mirri maz durr.
many people believe that mirri murdered rhaego (even though the case for it is weak at best) in revenge against dany for the suffering she experienced at the hands of dany's husband. these same people won't bat an eye when mirri is later burned alive because their reasoning is well, she killed a baby, an innocent. ftr its actually perfectly valid and reasonable and morally correct to not want to defend the murder of children so if people were consistent there wouldn't be an issue.
but because people aren't consistent, if my predictions are correct then it'll will do for me personally is send a message that brutal acts of revenge involving children are justified when it's coming from someone who is young, white, and pretty. however, it's suddenly not OK when it's coming from a character who is a woc and is protrayed as not attractive (ftr when it comes to mirri's looks, we're getting dany's biased perspective)
i also don't think its just a class thing either. elia martell is of ultra highborn nobility, and yet so much of the fandom will demonize the martells for not wanting to move on from the injustices that were committed against her. and what do you know elia isn't white.
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bohemian-nights · 7 months
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I'm almost certain that Daemon will orchestrate B&C, probably Rhaenyra will just want to kidnap the boy (because we know how good a soul Rhaenyra is lol) and Daemon will have the boy killed, and they will fight once again because daemon doesn't give a shit about what his queen says lol they will be together in the finale episode in season 2 according to some rumors, they will be with some lords... watch daemon giving orders, and explaining some plan and rhaenyra just standing next to him with her shit face because she doesn't like it when daemon gets more attention than her (after all, she is the queen, right?) just like it was in episode 10 of the first season
“Rhaenyra just standing next to him with her sh*t face”🤣
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Queenie must be shown as gracious, fair, just, and desperately trying to free Westeros from the patriarchy(✊)while Daemon must be the big bad wolf(even though the just queen doesn’t punish said wolf😏).
🙌🏽It definitely does look like this is very close to the way things are going so far based on the “leaks.” Lol I’m not too mad about it 🤷🏽‍♀️ Hey it’s the best we can expect from a show that’s trying turn Rhaenyra into a girlboss/Mother Teresa(actually if they were trying to turn her into the real mother Teresa that would be an improvement). It’s way better than them trying to turn Blood & Cheese into a complete accident 🤦🏽‍♀️
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houseofthewyvern · 2 months
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so in the book when the dance is ‘done’ and Aegon III and Jaehaera are married, Jaehaera dies in one of two ways; either she jumped out that window at 10 years old, or she was pushed.
I think both options are beyond sad and horrific, and I’m torn about which one I think HBO will go with. on one hand, Jaehaera jumping parallels her to her mother, Queen Helaena, and also King Tommen Baratheon (show). Tommen in the show realized that his family’s schemes left him a powerless player trapped in a powerful position, isolated and alone, so he steps out the window. Helaena, in her grief, also throws herself out a window in the Red Keep. I can’t imagine HBO giving a 10 year old girl a drawn out and graphic suicide, so I imagine that if this is the rout they take, it will be much more the style of Tommen - quick and gut-punching but not a minutes long scene of a breakdown and a decision.
the other theory is that Jaehaera will be murdered. specifically, the theory presented in Fire & Blood is that she was pushed by Lord Unwin Peake, who wanted his own daughter to be Queen. feudalism, and especially fantasy feudalism, is a brutal society and a vicious cycle of death and marriage, and the world of Westeroes in particular has an elevated level of violence directed at women (not specific to GRRM works by any stretch, but that’s all I’m here to ramble about today). I could see this option mirroring the end of GOT 1x01 when Jamie pushes Bran, only instead of a boy being pushed out the window to prolong someone else’s incestuous relationship, a girl is pushed out the window to end her own. I could even see them finding a semi-natural way to have Unwin Peake say the iconic “the things I do for love” line.
either way it is going to be gut-wrenching
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lemonhemlock · 2 months
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Hi,I've recently discovered your blog and I Iove it.
I would like to know if you have any predictions regarding the second season of HotD. Do you think that the pessimistic attitude of many show watchers,especially TG fans, is warranted? Imho, if anything could irreversibly harm the greens is Rha*nicent. Not the ship itself, but the way the showrunners seem incapable of letting that ship sink after the time skip and are pushing it even after everything that has happened in season 1. Idk, the mere possibility of Alicent betraying her family and forsaking her children in any way to ingratiate herself to Rhaenyra is so illogical and outrageous, especially after B&C. The thing is, I'm almost certain that we are going to see a lot of Rha*nicent in the following season in some form and it could really irreparably ruin not only Alicent's character, but the greens in general. And, ofc, the show. What's your opinion about this and do you have any other predictions regarding the future seasons?
Thanks in advance :)
First of all, thank you, anon! 🌞🙏🌻
Preferences aside, I just think that white feminism sells in media. It manifests in tropes such as girlboss narratives (I know everyone is tired of this word by now), women warriors, female sexuality relayed through a male gaze-ish lens, overcoming adversity in an easily digestible way, scoring against some obviously misogynistic obstacle, framed in a way that appeals to a basic sense of justice etc. Lots of female characters that became popular in the last 15 years embody some of those markers, from Natasha Romanov to Katniss Everdeen to Arya Stark to Lagertha. And they're not even necessarily ~bad things~ or elements we shouldn't ever have in our fiction, it's just that this kind of tried-and-tested formula is what film executives think will bring them easy popularity and quick money.
Daenerys was such a hugely popular character that that it's to be expected (in this capitalistic hellscape we live in) that it would make monetary sense for HBO to try and recreate a straightforward empowerment narrative with the character of Rhaenyra. On paper, she has all the superficial storyline elements that could be converted into a blockbuster: powerful in some badass way (she is a competent dragon-rider), is A Rebel, owns her sexuality by sleeping with whomever she wants, which translates into 21st century mentality as empowerment, and has to overcome an obstacle posed by The Man.™ All wrapped up in a nostalgic package that reminds viewers of their beloved Daenerys.
So, unfortunately, I expect them to continue to build on these marketable points instead of focusing too much on finesse details, such as how Rhaenyra's already immense privilege and power as a princess of the Realm and a dragon-rider negatively impact those around her, how she can be both victim and perpetrator, how she perpetuates the cycles of violence and abuse + her less than palatable traits. Certainly, I'm not going to stand here and declare that they WON'T touch on those aspects either, before even watching the new season, because that would be silly. I DO expect them to address at least some of those issues and I'm sure there will be many moments which I will enjoy and even scenes that will be well-crafted explorations into certain questions. I do like this show a lot, at the end of the day, and will probably love S2, as well.
But, overall, I can't say hand-on-heart that the marketable concerns won't prevail in the end either, and I expect the framing to fall in the direction of "yeah, she did some bad stuff, too, but ultimately Rhaenyra had the right of it and was Betrayed by power-hungry woman-hating misogynists". Which does get frustrating in this media climate, because it is essentially the same message being delivered without much nuance or refinement: women* can't ever be wrong, anything a woman does is automatically great and should be supported, all delusions are valid if they're produced by a woman etc. I hope to be proven wrong, but only time will tell. Which is not to say that we should go back to making pro-patriarchy and pro-gender roles stories, which is kind of the vibe I'm sometimes getting from some "anti-woke" HotD critical pieces. An intersectional HotD - is that possible? At least a little class commentary on these people.
(*Of course, this only applies if the character fits into, what essentially is, another type of Ideal Woman: the acceptable amount of progressivism deemed appropriate at the current time, with the acceptable attitudes and interests. But that's a discussion for another day.)
So this is where rhaenicent falls for me. I've always thought it was an interesting addition and the change never bothered me, but there is a certain point at which it becomes unbalanced and, as you say, illogical. When is love ever "logical", though, you might question? Well, I think the prospect of losing your children + grandchildren + father + brother vs holding on to an unrequited lifelong crush might knock some sense into someone. Realistically speaking, the vast majority of people would nope out of that equation and the choice would be clear. How much can you truly love a person at the expense of literally your entire family? (including your extended family, because the Hightowers in Oldtown risked their lives for King Aegon). The reward is also so small, what exactly would Alicent be trading for? Yearning gazes and holding hands? Rhaenyra has not exactly been shown to reciprocate these feelings post Alicent's marriage to Viserys.
I think that the showrunners are holding onto this aspect because they're trying to make Alicent sympathetic to the general public, who are mostly on Rhaenyra's side, as a result of the show's framing. So their logic is that the viewers won't hate Alicent as much if she displays how sorry she is for everything, how reluctant, how much she loves Rhaenyra. And they think that her contradictory actions are a fair trade-off. So I do expect us to get more rhaenicent in the coming seasons.
All in all, this wouldn't be so bad, because indeed it could be framed as very romantic, a lot of pathos, star-crossed lovers etc and human emotions are messy and complicated. Our desires can often be contradictory in nature. Literature and mythology are filled with passionate love stories that defy all rhyme or reason. Doesn't Jaime tell Cersei he would kill every single person in the world for her? I just hope it'll get the presentation it deserves, delving into the complicated nature of love and difficult choices, and not turn into "Alicent would sell out her kids to save Rhaenyra from her self-inflicted predicament, all the while Rhaenyra is not sparing her a single thought or concern".
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dirtytransmasc · 8 months
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don't hurt me but...
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