#mclennon discussion

[starrynight2306]

Hello, as some others have pointed out there been a lack of discussion in the McLennon tag. So I decided I’d try to contribute something. This was posted on live journal way back when but I figured there’s a lot who haven’t seen it. Most are familiar with the famous photos of John and Paul taken by photographer David Bailey

However, what most don’t know is Bailey years later also took some photos of John and Yoko that may look familiar

Hmmm seems someone was trying to send a message.

#mclennon #McLennon discussion

[m1ssunderstanding]

Understanding Lennon McCartney Rewatch Part 1.1

So disclaimer: I took screenshots instead of photographing my screen this time, but the quality of footage is a thousand times worse so the images are still mostly shit. But anyway, here we go :)

We're going to have to keep a tally on how many times they refer to their relationship in romantic terms. Less than a minute in, Paul has used the description, “great love affair.”

And John's right on his heels with “the sexual equivalent of . . . People in love.” So there's 2 already. Oh boy.

That opening montage of John and Paul just living for the light in each other's eyes should actually be the official music video for “I wanna hold your hand.”

Also I wonder how many songs they have about hiding. Someone's got to have a list somewhere right?

I adore the absolute lack of reaction to John manhandling Paul.

And then This Look. He's in love with him, ladies and gentlemen.

I remember seeing somewhere that this footage was literally right after they'd finished “she loves you.” Which was pretty recently after Bob Wooler, which was right after Barcelona. And if you're like me and you think that song is secretly about their relationship? If Paul's just been singing “she said you hurt her so, she almost lost her mind, but now she says she knows you're not the hurting kind. She said she loves you” at you, after all of that? Of course John's acting like a fucking puppy dog.

Poor George tally number 1

Excuse me??? John wants to live in the Beatle apartment instead of with his actual literal wife until Paul decides to move in with his girlfriend? What? He's so insane. Cynthia, you're lucky Paul's a fucking social climber.

I think it's indicative of two things that Paul said “screw secret girlfriends” while John happily went along with secret wives. One: different levels of security in masculinity (John doesn't have gay eyebrows etc) and two: different relationships. Jane and Paul's relationship was a smart career move for both of them and I think, being upper-class, and having her own career, and not being a mother, Jane was in more of a position to have a say.

Every time I watch that footage of Ken Dodd asking about their parents I physically cringe. Poor poor babies. Do your research you idiot! I don't think that ever happened again. I wonder if Brian made sure of that.

Paul literally talks like such a husband here. “We've thought about it, and probably the thing that John and I will do . . .”

Obsessed with Paul shouldering himself between George and John after George's little joke shove. It's so protective and yet so subtle. Exactly the same strong posture and easy smile as when he stepped between John and that interviewer during the Jesus scandal.

Poor George tally number 2 (you can't quite tell from the pic but John is shoving him out of the way because how dare he put his suitcase by Paul's?! That's John's suitcase's spot!!)

All the Beatles were cuddly with each other. It's one of the cutest bits about them, the puppies in a basket aspect. But I think we'll need a “noticable spacing difference” tally for this rewatch, too, and here's the first.

Paul wearing John's hat for attention and it fully and completely doing the job? They're so embarrassing!

I actually love that John's imitation of his upper-class Scottish family (which Paul can't do) is actually much more convincing than his broad Liverpudlian (which Paul nails in two variations, one based off his own family) I'm obsessed with the class dynamics between them.

Poor George tally three. He shares this one with Ringo. That moment when Paul's pretending to interview them about their purple hearts and cuts them both off with, “thank you. Mi-mister Lennon,” and John and Paul proceed to completely forget the other two exist for who knows how long – certainly longer than the videographer was willing to record.

I find John sliding into Paul's raspy “tiiight yeeeah” with his very turned on “mmmMM it's been a hard” extremely suggestive. I'm sorry but I do.

It's like he thinks if he looks away for too long he's going to disappear or something. Which. Now that I said that. Yeah. That is what it is. Poor separation-issues baby.

Ringo: Paul, you wrote a beautiful song and you sing it great. John: yeah and you're SEXY! Let's not forget that, everyone.

Am I crazy to obsess over every little musical similarity in their songs? Yes. Can I help it? No. The little “oh-oh ohoho” in the If I Fell demo is exactly the same as in Imagine and (frothing and writhing) it means something I can feel it! I just have no idea what.

I also find the lyric change from “i hope that she won't cry” to “i hope that she will cry” extremely interesting. There's always a heterosexual explanation. Trust me, the straights are the Simone Biles of mental gymnastics. But while the published lyric can be read as a man bitter toward his ex girlfriend hoping to hurt her by flaunting his new relationship, the demo version is trickier. Could it be that he doesn't want to hurt his wife's feelings by letting her know he's in love with someone else? But who else could John Lennon possibly have been in love with at the time?

“Too too much in love. Woah, too too much in love with you.” My heart

#I'm sad because I really wanted to make a post about y'all's excellent tags on get back especially some that were such good points but I got #So if you want more discussion on those get back posts or if you want to laugh check out the tags on them #I think I'll just highlight and comment on tags as we go with ULM #ringo starr #george harrison #ulm #understanding lennon mccartney #mclennon #the beatles #paul mccartney #john lennon

[franklyimissparis]

how it feels discussing the mclennon dynamic on tik tok vs tumblr

#the majority of tik tok beatles fans make me want to rip my hair out #for many reasons but also the way they discuss sexuality is so unnuanced a lot of the time #the whole ‘married to women must mean straight’ …. be for real #paul mccartney #john lennon #mclennon #john and paul

[idontwanttospoiltheparty]

It is truly fascinating how the common tumblr narrative around John and Paul somehow makes the guy who literally got violent multiple times over people insinuating he was queer appear more "on board with the whole gay thing" than the guy who said some awkward/dated stuff in interviews a couple of times.

#im not trying to defend paul here btw. or tear down john #i just find the reading of john as like the Self-Accepting King between them.... myopic #i mean. it touches on the whole Was It Reciprocated Thing really #the idea being: If We Assume Paul Reciprocated He Is MORE Repressed Than John Because John Hinted More Heavily That He Wasn't Straight #but like.. #that's Exactly why some of us think.... maybe Paul IS straight 😭😭 or at least it's not nearly as big of a deal to him than it was to John #(perhaps because he's bi but treats it more casually than John ever felt capable of) #any reading of John and sexuality that concludes something LESS fraught than Paul's mostly benign slight weirdness/curiosity #seems to me.... like McLennon tunnel vision #like because John never gay panic attacked PAUL all that ugly stuff he did can be set aside. #also. look at the way people think about India #and the Get Back convo about it. it's all like JOHN'S NOT IN DENIAL. HE WAS CLEAR. HE WANTED IT. HE WAS ALL IN. #Was He? #anyways. i am becoming chatty these days. #as always people are welcome to discuss this with me even if we disagree #fiona.docx #jp speculation #discourse

[wilde-shit-posting]

If we discussed Oscar Wilde like The Beatles fandom discusses mclennon we'd be in other places

That being said you should go follow my Beatles blog @maccas-glass-cornflake

#I'm so up for it if anyone wants to have deep evidence discussions over Oscar Wilde and His Men and such #(except my copy of Oscar Wilde: A Life In Letters is loaned to a teacher right now but thats okay I can still have deep talks) #oscar wilde #yknow what im cruel im putting this under the mclennon tag #mclennon #y'know I'm just afraid that the world will never be ready for Oscar Wilde roleplays (I swear if anyone does this I want to know how- #you got to that point in life before I decide how I feel about you) #now I'll admit I did once write Oscar Wilde in a fanfic once but I think I was a freshman and a theatre kid #and it was Good Omens fan fiction #and it was kinda bad... not the fan fiction but Mr. Wilde was not characterized right if I recall #I swear if anyone goes and finds it I want to review how awful it was #i cringe at my old writings #and I love my readers from back then but why did they cry at my angst fics when really it wasn't that deep half the time (or maybe it was) #(maybe i just write deeper angst now) #(anyways does anyone want to read my gay Victorian romance with a little hint of murder and an examination of humanity)

[quinnallerton]

I'm sorry to hear that feel 'pushed out' of the fandom. I always enjoy your writing and contributions :(

Thanks Anon,

It was a weird time in the fandom. The start of Isolation/ Covid. Social issues and tensions running high. It was a place for people to escape, yet many were ‘witch hunting’ people’s blogs to bully individuals into following them. If you didn’t, you were called out. Appalling claims of racism and anti-semitism just for not responding to the several messages filling your inbox. It was definitely traumatic and very detrimental to how I viewed the fandom.

I have been a fan for decades. Have seen people come an go and much like others in the past, these members shook many to the core. Pushing and shaming, then quietly disappearing into another corner of the web to chant their mantra and leave bloodied blogs in their wake.

This behavior can destroy what people hold dear to themselves. Especially when the world seems to be crumbling and all you want to do is cling to the beacon of hope that is ‘the boys’.

I’m very happy with all the new blogs and materials since the premiere of Get Back. It seems that folks want to rebuild what is left of The Beatles fandom on this platform.

At the end of the day, there are crusty old bloggers that are perpetually negative and grouchy, but we just deal with them. ‘You do You’ as a wise blogger once told me. If it makes you happy, that’s all that matters!

Be kind to one another and don’t forget to focus on why we are all here in the first place! These idiot boys:

#the beatles #paul mccartney #john lennon #george harrison #ringo starr #the beatles fandom #history of fandom #mclennon #mclennon fandom #thanks anon! #I miss interacting with people #anons are welcome #mydaroga started this discussion #not to leave them out

[a-queen-of-the-clouds]

heyyy i just accidentally found your acc and was like OMG taylor swift and the beatles/mclennon fan??? i’d like to talk to you so much if you don’t mind ofc!🙏🏻

Hi bestie!!! Of course I don't mind, I'm just a silly girl with two very mainstream hyperfixations🤗

Feel free to send me a DM or an ask, whatever you want🩷

#there is always something to discuss when it comes to mclennon and taylor songs

[good-to-drive]

Tbh in terms of discussion/analysis Paul's relationship with John REALLY overshadows every single other relationship in his life, it's like mclennon is the trainwreck we can't look away from even when there are at least two or more other trainwrecks just a few feet away

#the beatles #beatles #ringo starr #john lennon #paul mccartney #george harrison #mclennon #mcharrison #mcstarr #really mcanybody

[bambi-kinos]

Beatles Reading List (Introductory)

Hi guys. So I saw a post floating around asking about "where to start" with the Beatles and how to find out more about them. Moeexyz's recommendation on it was to read fanfiction and this alarmed me a bit. Fanfiction just isn't a good source to get information about the band for one simple reason: fanfic authors change stuff for dramatic purposes all the time. It's just not a great way to get more information about them because fanfiction by necessity shifts things around for the sake of storytelling.

That Beatles iceberg is nice but the only way you're going to get a good picture of the Beatles is by doing a lot of reading of published sources. That's right. You're in for a lot of homework.

In an effort to combat misinformation, I asked the McLennon discord server to help me put together a rough list of introductory level books for Beatle fans that want to learn more about the band. These books are either a) read by me or b) read by someone I trust and I have included her quotes about the books she liked. I'll have color commentary talking about what they are and why they should be read. I do not consider this post finished! My server is constantly reading and discussing (we're looking at podcasts right now because they're the ones doing interviews with Liverpool citizens who were peers of the Beatles!) and they're being very gracious by contributing to this list. That means that this post may be updated in the future as I read more! If you want to keep up with updates then give my blog a follow, I'll post every time I update this list.

Some of these books are available on Archive.org but others can be gotten through your local library or through piracy. If you buy something, buy it used. Never pay more than $20 for a Beatle book.

The Whole Story

Anthology This is the documentary made by the band after John Lennon's death in 1980. It is both a documentary as well as a book (essentially a script of the documentary) which makes it very accessible. This is the version of the story that the band wanted to put out and includes interviews with Paul, George, and Ringo. They cover their beginning to their end. Anthology can be found on archive.org if you want to read it: https://archive.org/details/beatlesanthology0000unse_y2k8 The episodes are also available on Archive.org. If you search for "Beatles Anthology" and select "movies" option to search for videos then you will find it there. It's worth the watch and is all around the best introduction to the Beatles.

The Beatles - Hunter Davies This is the only sanctioned biography of the band. It's written in older language since it is contemporary to the 1960s but it's still very readable and a good intro. It is part of the media image that the band wanted to present at the time so you should make sure to think about what you are reading, who is saying what, and contemplate why he is saying it. It it still a great resource.

150 Glimpses of the Beatles - Craig Brown This is a short book that describes 150 anecdotes about the Beatles and what it was like to experience them. I recommend this because it demonstrates what a unique and personal experience the Beatles are while also demonstrating their global reach and how they became the most famous rock band in the world. It's a short read but a good one and there are many charming and thought provoking anecdotes in it. The story of the Beatles is just as much about their fans as it is about the band and you cannot understand one without looking at the other.

Books About Each Beatle

This particular section is a bit of a minefield. Many books written about the Beatles are of questionable veracity or just out and out wrong. (I can think of two that were written as blatant cash grabs and filled with libel that someone should have been sued over.) My recommendations on this may change so please check back from time to time! John Lennon

The John Lennon Letters - John Lennon, edited by Hunter Davies Primary source documents of the various letters and missives John wrote through his life. This may be the most important book on the list because it shows us who John really is: just another ordinary guy like us, trying to get through life. Also gives insight into his mindset as the decades pressed on.

The Making of John Lennon - Francis Kenny This is a very vital and heartbreaking read for people who want more insight into John. John Lennon is the most famous Beatle but he is also the one who's image is the most obscured and distorted. Francis Kenny is a Liverpool native who puts John in his proper context. To quote my server friend who read this one: Kenny, himself a Liverpudlian, takes into account how life in Liverpool in the first half of the 20th century shaped not only John but everyone he knew and his entire family. Mimi and Julia get a good critical view, and Uncle George gets his moment in the sun. He also lays out how class divides affected the Stanleys and then how Mimi took it out on John and Julia. He quotes a 1880s travel guide of London that said Liverpool was called "the New York of Europe," because of its economy and place on the ocean, and like in the Gilded Age New York that was happening concurrently across the ocean, Liverpool had pockets of wealth and splendor surrounded by poverty and rough living. Definitely a pro-read and a great insight into the culture and time John lived in. It does not fall into the pitfalls of hero worshipping John but Francis Kenny still treats John with sympathy and respect, hard qualities to come by when it comes to the cashgrabs written about John and his family.

John - Cynthia Lennon John's first wife, Cynthia, wrote two autobiographies about herself and John. This is one of them. It's a tough read in many places but a good one. Hers is a voice that doesn't shy away from John's flaws and actions but she also takes care to tell us why she and so many other people love him and remain loyal to him.

Paul McCartney

Many Years From Now - Barry Miles This is Paul's only sanctioned biography. It is formatted as a quasi-interview with Paul where there are interruptions of regular prose in each chapter. There are eyebrow raising moments where you can tell Paul is not quite telling the truth but it's important to read and identify these moments since Paul's habit of embroidering the truth is important to know and understand. Nonetheless it is still a lot more honest than I was expecting when I read it.

Paul McCartney: A Life - Peter Ames Carlin Probably the best Paul McCartney biography on the market. Peter Ames Carlin also did a similarly great bio of Paul Simon for people who are into that. To quote my friend Betty who read it: Paul gets to be a whole person here: the preternaturally talented boy wonder, the guy casting around for meaning, the less than attractive moments and qualities described without getting preachy or turning to [Paul Derangement Syndrome]. Carlin treats him with dignity instead of something to be gawked at and gossiped about. His (many) sources are cited at the end of the book. What I really appreciated was the ideas he put forth that I've only seen on Tumblr and not in Serious Official Biographies, which says to me he's writing as a fan and scholar and not a journalist trying to fill column inches.

George Harrison

I Me Mine - George Harrison Make sure to get the extended edition! George Harrison in his own words. There's a lot to say about this biography but it won't make much sense without context so I just encourage you to read it. George Harrison was, in my opinion, the best Beatle.

George Harrison: Behind the Locked Door - Graeme Thomson A good no bullshit biography about George Harrison. This covers his life as the material musician and the man seeking the divine. Graeme worked very hard to be respectful of George and his life, did extensive interviews with George's wife Olivia. Such a pro-read and definitely the best George biography written to date.

Ringo Starr

Photograph - Ringo Starr Ringo has stated that this book is his autobiography. In a few bumpers on the Beatles Sirius XM channel Ringo says that he doesn't want to write a biography like the others did but he was happy with putting this photobook together and essentially writing a bio through the captions. This is the closest that we will get for a biography for him as of right now. In time that may change but this is your best option. Piracy is the way to go when it comes to getting a copy of this, iirc it was a limited run and getting a physical copy might be very expensive these days.

Brian Epstein

A Cellarful of Noise - Brian Epstein/Derek Taylor This autobiography was ghostwritten by Brian's assistant Derek Taylor. It's not a tell-all but Brian talks about his youth and how he met the Beatles, including giving his own personal (and accurate) insights into each band member.

Conclusion

There are many, many books about the Beatles. Almost all of them offer something but most are about very niche periods in the Beatles history. When it comes to understanding the band I tried to put together a list where you can get an overview of the band and then read materials that either come straight from the Beatle in question or are not as biased as the competition. I am a McLennon shipper but for a post like this I did my best to recommend books that don't have that kind of bias in them so this is a list you can send to non-shipper friends haha.

In another post I will put together a history book list in the order of their timeline as a band, starting from the Quarrymen and on to the present. There is a LOT of ground to cover in a historical arrangement and it will take a while to compile. Please check back here regularly or give me a follow: whenever I update this post or make a new list, I'll make sure to post about it.

My plan is to make a website with all of this information that anyone can reference but it will take a long long time to make such a thing so put a pin in that one.

#the beatles #john lennon #paul mccartney #george harrison #ringo starr #richard starkey #brian epstein #beatles merch #beatles books #book recommendations #book recs

[claredanko]

i dont HATE HATE the beatles like. they have some fine songs and its been well established that george is the only member i actually like but i rarely go out of my way to listen to them. though when i was munted on saturday while my guitar gently weeps came on shuffle and i could feel myself turning into a beautiful glass jar of raspberry jam. i also believe in mclennon and dylarrison bc thats not even beatles related to me thats just facts. anyway im irritated by everyone who isnt my my tumblr circle discussing the beatles bc they dont know or understand. and also im just way too monkeepilled like peter tork didnt pop pussy while playing bass just so paul could win that billboard hottie tourney yes im still bitter

#journal

[persimnon]

what I love so dearly about tumblr is this: we listened to Now and Then in my Beatles class today, watched a mini documentary on it, and discussed its cultural context and the merits of its composition. and then I come home 20 minutes later click on the trending Beatles tag and the first post is how this was a mclennon love song

#would not trade this website for ANYTHING #the beatles #now and then #mclennon #my prof would love it here she would be so entertained #musc 374 chronicles #blither blather bother

[pauls1967moustache]

My knowledge of the Beatles is insignificant, but I never understood why Mclennon fans think the problem would be Paul's non-acceptance of his sexuality.

I honestly don't think this was a problem for Paul. In 66 he traveled to Paris with Robert Fraser and didn't care about the gossip. In 65/66 Paul was much closer to Peter Asher, Tara Browne and Robert than he was to the other Beatles. In 67 Paul attended social events and clubs with Brian.

Brian and Robert were homosexuals.

In the 1970s, Denny Laine lived with his family on Paul's estate in Scotland, all practically together as a hippie commune.

In my opinion, and I could be wrong, John had much more difficulties with his own sexuality than Paul, and there were only changes after Yoko, who, being a feminist and avant-garde woman, influenced him to understand his possible bisexuality.

For me the difference was that while Paul always wanted to maintain the privacy of his life, John had a need, perhaps vanity, to expose himself more. I would like to know your opinion if you don't mind. I hope what I wrote was intelligible, English is not my native language.

Thanks🌻🌻🌻🌻

Ehhh, the question of their sexuality is a whole other can of worms tbh. I agree that Paul not accepting John’s sexuality (or rejecting a gay relationship with John) is a made up issue. But I find discussions about their relationship to their own sexualities kind of pointless. I think it’s a complex thing none of us can ever understand as well as they themselves understood it, and I don’t think they understood it through the same “this is queer” lens that that fandom usually looks at it from.

I don’t think either of them having close friendships with gay men really says anything about their own relationship to whatever queer identity they may have had. Sexual identity is kind of a personal journey. Many people have queer friends and support queer rights without truly being at peace with that within themselves.

I think they both had pretty typical internalised homophobia for men of their time, and that came out in different ways because they were different personalities. I don’t think the idea of being queer, either privately or publicly, is something either of them were truly comfortable with.

#I find the ‘no he wa the one gay pining’ element these discussions completely useless #they were both crazy and homophobic and gay! whatever! #but thank you for your question #I think the theory that john would want to be open in his sexuality and paul would want to be private is not an entirely useless one #asks

[m1ssunderstanding]

On the John/Paul opposite roles thing, Paul said himself a couple of years back: "[John] could be quite caustic and witty, but once you got to know him he had this lovely warm character. I was more the opposite: pretty easygoing and friendly, but I could be tough when needed." That kind of thing can be easily oversimplified but I do think in broad strokes it's true. I guess that's another way they worked well together: they both had their soft and hard sides but proportioned in such a way that they balanced out well and made up for where the other lacked when working towards the same goal.

I do think their "armours" for the world served their purposes well too. The image the press takes is always going to be crude caricature of whatever you show regardless, I just wish more of the people doing the deeper dives would recognise how misleading extrapolating purely from their public faces can be. But I guess many of them just don't want to let go of their tough-John soft-Paul images for various reasons. The general reaction to Get Back was somewhat encouraging along those lines though, quite a few journos made note of how Paul drove forward and John supported the band in ways that go against those preconceived images.

Thanks for finding that quote anon. Every once in a while Paul is able to articulate a coherent introspective thought and this is one of them. And you sum it up so well. They could both be both but in exactly the ways and amounts and times that the other lacked.

And yes. They did too good a job with their suits of armor. Not only are they extremely difficult to penetrate, but they are so attractive that no one wants to open them for fear of damaging the pleasing exterior. You're right. Even supposed experts "don't want to let go of their tough-John, soft-Paul images". It's a very marketable story they created. The trouble is, it's not the truth. Luckily the trend seems to be with younger, non-casual fans, and with a select few creators of docs, pods, books, and articles, that we actually are interested in the more complex humans who created and wore the armor, why and how they created it, etc.

#thanks for the ask! #I really love that you took the time to find that quote and share your thoughts #It's so fun to me to discuss this stuff with you all #paul mccartney #the beatles #john lennon #mclennon

[franklyimissparis]

Related to the last anon about your dad, if you’re comfortable answering. Does he know any older music industry folks? Like those who were around in the 60s or 70s? I’ve gotten the sense they are the best source for insider Mclennon gossip is why I ask…

yeah he’s run in the same circles as a lot of those older musicians/producers/engineers for decades and has worked w quite a few from that era. there’s really only a few things i’ve heard mclennon-wise from him that i’ve never seen to be talked about here to my knowledge, most of what i know from him has already been discussed through other sources.

1) allegedly during the got back tour, paul kind of blew up on a technician for having issues with one of the screens during the i’ve got a feeling duet w john basically being like “of all things to fuck up, don’t fuck up john’s bit”

2) also have heard him talk about a rumour that there was something between david bailey and john but my dad wrote it off as being shite and wouldn’t give me more details about what he heard 😭

3) the brother of a quite well-known producer from the 60s/70s claims he heard from i think if i remember correctly it was clapton (which is kind of a wild source for this??) that paul was actively suicidal after john’s death and, if it weren’t for linda being so attentive, things could/would have gone down very differently

there are other things that i’ve seen speculated about here that i’ve heard from him as well. like all 4 beatles having their own slang/code for certain things that seemed completely nonsensical if you were to speak w them (which i had heard from him before i had found people discussing it here so it was neat to have that somewhat confirmed)

my dad’s definitely in the “they were platonic soulmates/brothers” category of belief btw but he also literally said that he thinks every creative partnership is like a marriage in more ways than one (lot to unpack there, cheers dad) and i think he’s probably heard more than he’s shared with me tbh.

#asks #mclennon #john lennon #paul mccartney #tw suicide

[idontwanttospoiltheparty]

Re: your post about JohnandPaul. If you do wish to share them, I'd love to know your headcanons about John and Paul's feelings for each other. ( I do get your discomfort about sharing though and yeah, I also miss the long discussions and metas from back when Get Back came out. It feels like, except you and some others, most of my favorite blogs have moved on from the fandom)

I've been sitting on this ask for several days now.

First of all I hear you, re:blogs moving on. It's understandable, but it's also sad when my brain does not want to give this stuff up any time soon lol.

In my post I talked about having specific headcanons about their feelings for each other, but the truth is, it's more like I imagine hundreds of very specific somewhat plausible scenarios, while not actually fully buying into any of them.

I always struggle with how sure people are of some definite timeline of McLennon because I just don't see how it's in any way clear: the most compelling evidence that at least John had Those Feelings™ for Paul is stuff he said after the fact (compiled with the stronger case for John being attracted to men in general) – so, if I choose to interpret his words in that way, I'm still not very close to knowing when he developed this attraction. Let alone concluding anything substantial about Paul's feelings.

(And no, I really don't find the two of them saying the other looked good when they met particularly compelling. Appearance plays a huge role in first impressions, regardless of attraction.)

So I guess, it's more that I have open questions I return to again and again, for which I try to construct hypothetical answers that make sense to me. Aside from that bigger timeline question, here's a few more specific ones:

From what I've gathered researching the topic, listening to psychonauts speak about their trips, the acid mindset very much romanticizes all forms of human connection (among other things). I think that's probably what was going on during those "I know."–"I know." sessions John and Paul had on LSD. With that in mind, how might that have mixed in with John trying to understand how he felt about Paul? Could it have confused him? Opened him up to the idea? "Appeased" him for a while? (and again, the answer here would depend on the timeline of feelings in the end)

I still lean towards "Paul is not meaningfully attracted to men" (or at least "Paul valued other aspects of his relationship with John much more than physical attraction") – with that in mind I do kind of ask myself what Paul thought his relationship with John was exactly. Like, I don't pretend it was a standard, run-of-the-mill friendship, so I wonder a lot what his end-goal was, how he saw both of them continuing into later stages of life. The way he talks about the breakup, equating John choosing Yoko with John leaving Paul, speaks to something somewhat true about most couples that marry – but why did he not anticipate that before? What was different? Also, for $20 don't copout with "hurr hurr cause Cyn didn't matter"

Paul's various takes on The John Question continue to puzzle me. On the one hand, it sort of seems to me like Paul would have had enough context clues at the time to get that John was attracted to men, because some of our evidence for it is evidence he would have had access to – he also indicated at least once that John was in fact kind of openly bicurious??? (note: that rant keeps me up at night. Could write a whole thesis on it and also it's so fucking funny) On the other, Paul is pretty insistent that the rumours are Not True and he's not actually the only person to shoot them down like that. (May Pang, Julia Baird, Tony Bramwell, Hunter Davies off the top of my head) It shouldn't be a stretch of the imagination that a man born in the 1940s might have trouble rearranging the image he's made of his dead best friend so drastically (or in a way that might feel drastic to him). So what is it? Is Paul obfuscating the question to protect John's reputation/because he thinks the curiosity is in poor taste or does he genuinely not buy into it? I'm not actually sure whether he's weighed in on this since Yoko's "John Was BI!!!!" reveal. Has this stance developed over the years? And if I assume Paul does know about John's sexuality: does he in fact think John had feelings for him? I do think this is a thing he would never talk about if he did so it feels like there would be no way of knowing either way. But it also makes me wonder about the barriers he might have set up in his head to avoid that very question – because the truth is that if John had Those Feelings™ for Paul and Paul never knew, that's sort of the second-worst case scenario from Paul's perspective, right after John having never liked him in the first place.

AND THEN THERE'S JOHN. Because just because Paul may not have picked up on it, doesn't mean John wasn't putting anything down. But he could also very much have been sending mixed signals from his own end, right? And again, acid mindset + mid 60s Free Love shit: in that culture, how much could John making advances be perhaps taken as Flowery Friendship? Did he justify it to himself that way? Or was John actually violently shoving all of that down? Was he truly capable of that?

It really never ends – I'm not certain of ANYTHING, but give me a proposal (ie. "In My Life is about Paul") and I'll talk myself into circles exploring the ins and outs of that hypothetical.

#ask #anon #jp speculation #my analysis #fiona.docx

[confessbeatles]

It's such a shame that so many complete idiots trolling about McLennon. I'm a McLennon believer from both sides BTW. There so a huge plot hole in the Beatles history that could be talked about, discuss, learn about and that is also why I'm here. Come on the more you know the more it point at it! But the tinhatting part is the feeling that the officials sends out their minions to compeletly make it a troll universe. Which is ok too if they do want to keep it private, other people might get hurt, and "some are dead some are living" and it happend so many years ago so it it worth it, "Let it be". But still two guys with crushes on each other really so bad and an odd topic?

Like I’ve mentioned in a previous post, some people like rpf, some people don’t. Which is ok if you don’t like it not everyone has to like or even agree with it. but what becomes a problem with me is when people start being rude or judging or going on peoples accounts and sending hate anons. like if you don’t like it, don’t interact or search for it. ( btw I’m not referring to the previous anon who said they don’t like rpf, they were really respectful about it)

And like you’ve mentioned, they are such a fascinating and unique duo, people have been discussing them since the 60’s all the way till today. They are truly special

#the beatles #confessions and theories #mclennon