#rebirth tim even after getting his memories of kon back feels more like at least some of them are very vague and dreamlike | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

ectonurites · 3 years

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do u have any thoughts on the whole “tim is zapped to time prison” storyline? bc i feel like it could have been pretty interesting and a good way to bring back young justice/tim’s memories more immediately if it hadn’t been such a blatant attempt to just get tim out of storylines bc they had no ideas for his character

sorry lol u don’t have to respond i just kind of wish people talked about this storyline more? and the fact that tim lowkey became one of the only people in dc with knowledge of the other timelines (i think so at least) and nobody really addressed it?? like going into the next phase where people learn about other timelines after death metal.... tim should already know some of this stuff right?

YES YES YES OKAY LETS TALK ABOUT THIS this got incredibly long because I just have a lot to say (and i included screenshots) and i prob got a little off topic but. but lets get started anyways:

i haven’t read that particular storyline in a few months so i might be missing/misremembering some details here, but that whole ‘time prison + future tim’ thing was like. a really really interesting concept and the implications/impacts it has are a big part of why i liked tynion’s detective comics run as much as i did even with it’s flaws in characterization (such as treating tim like he was jimmy neutron boy genius and making steph..... be all ready to quit/breakaway from the team like that. the steph quitting characterization really started i think in batgirl convergence and unfortunately has haunted her since, even though pre reboot never giving up was like...... one of her defining traits. dc i hate you sometimes)

i think that one of the biggest things that bothers me about the situation is how little we saw most of the other characters in the batfamily grieve (aside from steph and some with bruce, but again the way steph was portrayed just... hhhhhh. it very much reduced her to ‘tims girlfriend’ more than i’d have preferred) but otherwise like...as far as I can remember there was maybe one line in that monsters crossover thing where dick mentioned tim was gone, jason had a single line about avoiding the funeral in rhato, i dont think they showed any reaction from babs at all until after he was back, and the most for damian I recall is at the end of the 2014 teen titans run (#24) where he looks at... a case with the old red robin uniform Tim wasn’t even wearing anymore when he died? and that just bugs me. Instead of getting to see the actual funeral we get one flashback to it way after the fact once Bruce already knows Tim’s not actually dead

But at the time when they all DID think he was dead? the closest thing we see was in that same teen titans issue (#24) there’s a memorial-type ‘sharing stories’ thing after the funeral with tim’s titans friends but.... we don’t see something like that with his family. tim is a major presence in these peoples’ lives, they are his family, when he gets sent into time prison its even SAID how loved he apparently is

its just... idk. they all thought he was dead, and if they had put more emphasis on showing not just telling how that effected EVERYONE (not just steph) in the batfam, it might have felt a lot less like they were just putting tim away until there was a story idea for him. (like obviously I know they can’t make everyone’s stories revolve around Tim, but I’d have way preferred a detective comics issue of the funeral/memorial with the family than having there only be a teen titans one, I think it would have... held more relevance & meaning... but instead they just went right into that monster crossover story instead of lingering on this)

but then the Tim story itself once it does pick up way later, with titans tomorrow/future tim coming along having that whole “tell conner you’re sorry” “who’s conner?” exchange with current tim... that opens up A LOT of things to think about, and I think was pretty interestingly done if i’m remembering correctly. future tim recognizes the timelines are different, and ya know goes off to try to change things further ("whaddaya got there?” “a gun to kill batwoman” “NO!!!!”), theres lots of fighting etc etc the good guys win as we expect, but once that’s all settled tim’s left there with this whole. thought process

which ya know is the big indicator there’s weird timeline/reality fuckery going on (or also the read here can be that tim and kon are so connected across all space and time that their bond can transcend anything even timelines and realities and reboots... “and they were soulmates” “oh my god they were soulmates”)

ANYWAYS lets not forget that tim isnt the only one who learns about this other timeline stuff during this whole situation!

Brother Eye has records of future tim’s timeline, and cass & steph see who they used to be! and as soon as steph finds out ‘holy shit i was ROBIN and BATGIRL?’ she also desperately wants to know more! which then a bit later leads into young justice 2019 where instead of going off to college like they told Bruce they were gonna, Steph and Tim go get the help of Zatanna to see what might be going on in their brains with these timelines and weird feelings (as we see in flashback form in yj 2019 #5)

and HOO BOY DOES SHE FIND THINGS! she gets in there and finds out that oh yeah, their brains had very much so been tampered with, and with her magic she undoes some of it, by unlocking memories, and Tim finally remembers Conner! (also in case u were wondering, that panel is specifically a callback to this one from yj 1998 #17 when Cissie quit the team)

one thing that I think is weird/interesting/idk if it gets... properly addressed even, was that Zatanna also poked around Steph’s brain too and she didn’t remember everything? Might have something to do even with how Tim had been in time prison, might have taken less work from Z to open things up because of that? Who knows

additionally i wanna call attention to how he said “That entire chapter of my life” which... leading into my next point a bit... strongly leads me to believe even though he’s remembering some things he definitely does not have ALL of his memories back (because theres a lot more than just the young justice ‘chapter’ of tim’s life that was drastically changed by the new 52 & rebirth)

BUT moving on, i wanna bring up this part from later on (after they figured out that there was a crisis that caused things in the world to change, which is why their memories/brains were messed with) in issue #16

so yeah, I think it’s indicated even though Zatanna brought back some memories and opened up his brain a bit, there’s still many holes, and some things seem more like dreams rather than memories and he’s probably unable to tell which are which on his own to some extent. (also for reference the real thing that Tim thought was just a dream is... likely yj 1998 issue #1)

So based on the things i’ve brought up here (which are the things I remember off the top of my head, I could easily be accidentally leaving shit out LMAO i haven’t fully read through any of these books in at least 3 or more months now) I think it’s safe to assume that Tim definitely has a head start on getting back his memories before Death Metal happens, but that it was by no means a complete thing. So the after effects of Death Metal are probably just gonna... be a little less drastic for him vs most other people because it was already happening, but it’ll be kinda filling in the remaining gaps?

And like you said he is absolutely one of the few people that already knew about about the timelines/the fact that these crises have happened and changed things, but pretty much all the other young justice characters are also aware that there was meddling in the timeline/that multiple timelines and alternate universes like this exist since they were all together as a group when it got explained (in like. yj 2019 #15 i believe is where most of the explaining happens) (and cass as well is aware of things to some extent because of her and steph’s interaction with Brother Eye) but the difference is that Zatanna didn’t go into everyone’s brains, so they aren’t dealing with the same memory things as Tim (and possibly Steph? because again Z DID go in her brain, she just wasn’t able to unlock all the same things as she did with Tim)

but yeah in general i SO wish this was explored more, both in canon and in fanworks (fanworks tho... that can still happen >:3c). Memories hazily coming in for Tim while Kon and Bart are able to confirm or deny things, him dealing with conflicting memories and feelings about his past as they trickle in... like I think we’ll start to see these types of things moving forward across a lot of titles with Infinite Frontier (i BELIEVE dont quote me on this but I BELIEVE the person writing Damian’s upcoming solo had mentioned in an interview that the memories coming back of the other timeline aren’t going to be an all at once thing but will be more gradual for most characters) but the fact that it theoretically had already been happening for Tim for MONTHS and we only got that one crumb indicating it in #16 of it instead of any actual exploration makes me SAAAAAAD

#Anonymous #tim drake #dc comics #meta #sam talks about tim too much #if anyone has diff thoughts interpretations im always down to discuss!#this sent me down a rabbit hole thats why i didnt answer last night it was Suddenly 1am djsjsjs #also sorry no issue numbers on the detective comics stuff but those r screenshots i already had #from my readthrough a while back or google images. so i didnt go check

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sweetwriting · 4 years

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TimKon Week 2020 - Day 1: What’s Going On?

Category: Gen or Pre-slash

Genre: Angst/Friendship

Fandoms: DC Comics, Superverse, Teamverse

Continuity: Post-Crisis/Pre-Flashpoint & Rebirth

Summary: Iris Force didn't really have visions, she just knew things. But tonight, for the first time, she had one. And it was about somebody who shouldn't be there. The TimKon part isn’t that big even if it hints at how bit it could be. As of this story they’re still just friends so it can be seen as platonic or romantic

Word Count: 3356

AN: A part of this is a WIP I had already posted here : https://sweetwriting.tumblr.com/post/165029401671/hello-this-is-a-snippet-for-a-fic-ive-always but to which I was never able to find fitting parts. This part stayed at least as an inspiration of the Vibe I wanted to give but ended up being put to the side. However this Prompt gave me an idea so I’ll try to see where it goes and if it does’n work well…It will be considered as a bonus :D There’s also a reference to Ruelle’s song “I will Find You” as this song is kinda linked to most of the TimKon Angst and general New Rebirth Plot.

Prompt: Under Lock & Key - Future

Can be read on AO3

A breath.

Everything was dark. Were his eyes even open?

Another breath.

What was he feeling around him? It felt like a liquid. But how could he possibly breathe in a liquid?

Another one. He extended his arms. Glass. Surrounding him.

And another. Faster.

He didn’t have enough place to extend them completely.

Another breath. Panic.

Who was he? Another one.

How did he know he was a “he”.

And another.

What was going on?

And another.

Where was he?

And another.

Why.

Another.

How.

Another.

Where.

Another.

Superman.

That was his name. But it wasn’t. It was supposed to be his name. But it wasn’t. Why. Who was he?

Paul Westfield.

That was his father? No.

Alexander Luthor. Was he his father? No. Disgusting.

Who?

Why?

How?

Where?

Was Superman his father? No. Brother. Clark Kent? Same.

Names.

So many names.

Robin, Impulse, Wonder Girl, Roxy, Rex Leech, Dubbilex, Tana Moon, Sam Makoa, Guardian, Hero, Matrix, Aura, Half-Life, Sparx, Empress, Arrowette, Secret, Red Tornado, Traya, Speedy, Green Lantern, Ravager, Starfire, Beast Boy, Cyborg, Nightwing, Flash, Max Mercury, Wonder Woman, Troia, Agent A, Batman, Not Robin, Red Hood, Spoiler, Batgirl, Knockout, Lori, Simon, Ma Kent. Cassandra Cain, Stephanie Brown, Jason Todd, Damian Wayne, Bruce Wayne, Alfred Pennyworth, Donna Troy, Diana Prince, Wally West, Dick Grayson, Jim Harper, Victor Stone, Garfield Logan, Koriand’r, Rose Wilson,,Sterling, Kyle Rainer, Mia Dearden, Victoria no Greta Hayes, Cissie King-Jones, Anita Fite, Donna Carol Force, Byron Stark, Lindsey Wah, Hero Cruz, Cassandra Sandsmark, Bart Allen.

Tim.

Tim Drake.

He remembers.

Names.

His best friends.

Bart and Tim.

This is a pod or a tube or whatever.

He’s Superboy, Kon-El, Conner Kent. The Metropolis Kid, The Boy of Steel.

And he has to find his friends. To make sure Ma is okay. He can’t abandon them again. He can’t abandon Tim again. How long was he in there?

Panic.

Everything goes completely white.

- - - - -

Shortly before Flashpoint happened.

Timberton, British Columbia, Canada.

Iris Force woke up with a gasp. It was the first time she saw what felt so far off in the future and felt so entwined with the recipient of her vision. It was that boy, Superboy who had been one of her dear D.C’s friends back when she went to that horrible party place.

She suddenly heard her door open and the voice of her granddaughter, Anastasia, come to her.

“Granny Iris, I’ve felt you panic, are you alright?”

Iris felt her dear Anastasia settle next to her and help her sit by pulling her elbow.

“I’m sorry, did I wake you up?” She answered, leaving herself time to try and sort out what could be happening.

Anastasia’s hands came to take her own in them in a reassuring gesture.

“Don’t worry, I’m honestly more concerned by the strangely strong reaction you showed to one of you visions. And especially since I’ve never known you to have prophetic dreams”.

Iris turned her head toward her granddaughter. She might not be able to see but she wasn’t going to be impolite.

“This is a problem, It didn’t seem to be a prophetic dreams yet it still was. It seemed to be happening in a far-off future but in the past at the same time. Distant and close at once. I’ve been trying to make sense of it but I can’t seem to be able to do that. And it’s something I’d rather have sorted out before I talk to Donna Carol.”

Anastasia startled and asked in a tiny voice why her sister was concerned.

“It’s about the Superboy. You remember, they were friends a few years ago. Even if they lost touch his death and resurrection had deeply affected her and I think this might too.”

- - - - - -

Prime Earth. Around the Time Red Robin’s future self came to the present.

Timberton, British Columbia, Canada.

She suddenly heard her door open and the voice of her granddaughter, Anastasia, come to her.

“Granny Iris, I’ve felt you panic, are you alright?”

Iris felt her dear Anastasia settle next to her and help her sit by pulling her elbow.

“I’m sorry, did I wake you up?” She answered, leaving herself time to try and sort out what could be happening.

Anastasia’s hands came to take her own in them in a reassuring gesture.

“Don’t worry, I’m honestly more concerned by the strangely strong reaction you showed to one of you visions. And especially since I’ve never known you to have prophetic dreams”.

Iris turned her head toward her granddaughter. She might not be able to see but she wasn’t going to be impolite.

“This is a problem, It didn’t seem to be a prophetic dreams yet it still was. It seemed to be happening in the near future but in the past at the same time. Distant and close at once. I’ve been trying to make sense of it but I can’t seem to be able to do that. And it’s something I’d rather have sorted out before I talk to Donna Carol.”

Anastasia startled and asked in a tiny voice why her sister was concerned.

“I do not know, I just know it concerns a Superboy. They were friends a few years ago. No. They were not. I know the universe had changed but I don’t exactly know how. This is one of these changes.”

She knew Anastasia was frowning. She could not blame her as it was confusing even for her. She had told her family the universe had changed but since most of those changes were unknown even to her, and since their family didn’t seem in any immediate danger, they let it be and almost never thought of it again. Except for Donna Carol. She wanted to act. To become a hero. It was obvious but she had never acted on it. Probably due to the knowledge that a past she had lived had been erased. While it fueled her desire to help as a hero more than before it also scared her. The fact that her aunt had not left the family and as such making sure Donna Carol did not have an example to follow might have also helped.

Because yes, Iris knew Donna Carol had been a hero and Allure had left. But that was only because she saw the shift between then and now within the family. She could only see the very big changes when she met people concerned by them.

Just like she knew this conversation had happened before the shift. Maybe not the exact same but her other/past self had the same vision.

What was happening?

- - - - - - -

Conner awoke to a dark room. Or was it a cave? It was too dark to tell but he could not hear the telltale sign of machinery. No sound, no light. Nothing

He wasn’t sure. What he knew was that he was in a pod, in a liquid. That he had woken up some time before and gotten most of his memory back. The pod had fallen sideways on the ground and was the glass was cracking. He tried to push against it but he couldn’t.

Why? Why couldn’t he just burst though? Why wasn’t his TTK working? Where was he? What was going on?

So he screamed.

“HELP! SOMEONE HELP! BART! TIM! CLARK! CA…”

He was interrupted by crackling. And a sudden burst of blue light.

Right in front of him was electricity in the shape of a woman. He smiled in relief. He knew her after all, she was an old friend of his.

“D.C! Boy am I glad to see you! It’s been a while!”

The girl however didn’t seem to show the same joy.

“Wow Granny said I knew a Superboy in the old world but I half believed her. But you actually look that other Superboy who disappeared, and you seem to know me.”

Now Conner was confused. What old world? Why would she need Granny Iris to tell her they were friends? Why was he still in this thing?

“Whatever! Can you help me get out? I can’t seem to be able to use any of my powers.”

D.C shrugged and agreed. She fried the commands and opened the lid of the pod before lifting him then she promptly let him fall as she covered her eyes and turned around.

Conner fell on his butt, the floor was made of wood so he didn’t hurt himself much, but apparently he hadn’t retained his invulnerability.

“Hey! Why did you drop me DC?!”

D.C. had curled up in the air, her back still to him. She answered him in a small voice.

“You’re naked”

Conner looked down. She was right. It was luck then that the floor was made of wood and not a less smooth surface. He looked around. There wasn’t anything to cover himself as he was in a bare rectangular room only filled with cables. The door DC had opened seemed to show water as he could see the ripples reflecting the moon and stars in what would be a rather bleak night otherwise.

D.C ran toward the door with her eyes closed.

“I’m gonna go try and find you something more decent. Wait here!”

And she left him there. Well he didn’t have much shame but even he knew better than to walk around naked -if only to avoid unwanted attention when he was already so confused. In the meantime he would try to see what he could still do. So he tried to get up, and promptly fell down again.

“OK so baby steps…literally.”

Two hours later and he could finally walk almost normally. However he really couldn’t use any of his powers. He also wasn’t anywhere close to knowing what was going on. That’s when he heard the telltale sound of Sparx’s powers nearby.

She came in with her eyes closed and two pieces of cloth in her arms.

“OK so pants are harder to fit especially since I don’t know your size so I found a hoodie and a skirt, hope you don’t mind”.

She threw the clothes n the room and turned around. Conner Started putting them on as he answered.

“They definitely wouldn’t be my first choice but I don’t mind. At least the skirt is nicer than the dress I had to wear last time”.

“Wait.You really wore a dress?”

“Yeah, it was to be used as a distraction. Honestly it was fun even if I had my costume underneath. All right, I’m all done.”

D.C turned toward him.

“Hey it’s actually not that bad. Though the fact that it’s night and we can’t really see the colors probably help.”

Conner rolled his eyes. Of course he looked good in it. He looked good in almost everything. Granted he wasn’t sure what he looked like right now. Sparx coughed and he brought his attention back on her.

“OK so…this isn’t the most comfortable place to talk and I’m honestly not the best person to talk world heroics with so I’m gonna bring you to my family and especially my granny Iris. Don’t worry though they all…”

“Have powers, yeah I know I already met them, you brought us there remember?”

“That’s the thing actually, I don’t. I’m only here because of granny Iris”

“Oh.”

There was a slight lull before D.C started again.

“Anyway we should go, you can fly right?”

Conner shifted slightly.

“Yeah, actually, no. I seem to have lost my powers actually”

“Well it’s okay, I’ll just have to fly you there. We might have to take a few breaks though because while I’m not slow, I’m also not strong enough to go all the way there while holding you in one go”

Conner nodded and they left. As Sparx got high up in the sky, he noticed that what they left wasn’t a room but actually one of several train cars left on the side of a river bank. It seemed to have been separated from another part which was nowhere to be found. Moss had started to grow on it so it had been there for a while. He had been there for a while.

- - - - - - - -

It took them six hours to get to the Force family and they mostly spoke about the new tv shows that D.C. had found interesting lately so they would avoid any topic too heavy (apparently he had missed out on a hilarious cop show). Also Smartphones were so much more advanced as they were the last time he saw them.

- - - - - - -

Timberton, British Columbia, Canada.

As they landed in front of a house in a clearing surrounded by woods, a young brown-haired teenager came to greet them.

“D.C ! Mom said that you would probably need to rest when arriving so you need to show Superboy the guest room.”

D.C. undid her transformation and turned into a cute girl with short brown hair and dressed in a baseball shirt and jeans.

“No way! I’m not tired and I wanna know what’s going on!”

Ana smiled at her big sister and turned toward the house.

“Granny Iris said you’d say that and is waiting for you both in the living room”.

D.C rolled her eyes and grumbled a short “then why not invite us there directly?” before going after her sister followed by a nostalgia filled hero.

Iris Force looked as dignified as ever when, putting the cup of tea she was sipping back on the teacup in her hand, she greeted her granddaughter and her friend from another life.

“Hello Superboy, it has been a while. Though I believe you did get a few name since we last saw each other.”

“Hi Mrs Force. I go by Conner as a civilian and Kon El among other heroes now. Though you already knew that. It’s nice to see you again”.

The older woman kept her eyes closed as she smiled at him. He and D.C sat down on the couch next to Granny Iris’ armchair. Both had a teacup waiting in front of them on the table, filled with warm tea.

“You’re much more subdued than I remember young man. I would like to say it is nice to see you have grown up but as I know what some of it implies I’m afraid I am just saddened for you”.

Conner flinched at the bluntness and D.C almost got up to yell at her grandmother before changing her mind as Conner nodded at Granny. The older woman started talking again.

“I’m afraid I won’t be able to fill in most gaps, you know our family doesn’t really get involved in heroics so we don’t have the same kinds of information you could get from those people. All I know is that a few years ago, I woke up with the distinct feeling that things had changed. I didn’t know what but when I saw Allure and D.C. I immediately knew what had changed for them. For you….I can see what you where but I’m not sure what you are right now. Do you have any idea what happened to you?”

Conner stared at the teapot in the middle of the table for a few minutes.

“I don’t remember how I got there to be honest. The last thing I remember clearly was being with my best friends, Tim and Bart. I’m…I’m pretty sure I was with Tim for a while but I don’t know where or what happened.”

There was a pause.

“Oh my God! I don’t know where he is! I don’t have my powers I can’t make sure he’s okay! What do I do?”

“Maybe just google his name, whoever “he” is.”

Conner turned to D.C who showed him her phone already put on a google page. He tapped Tim’s name in the search bar and found pictures of the Wayne family with basic information. He frowned. Something was definitely wrong and it was not just because of Tim’s height…Wait.

“That’s not Tim!”

D.C Looked on her phone and almost screamed.

“You know the Waynes? Wait. Why do you say it’s not him?”

Kon turned the phone fully toward her.

“Look he reaches Bruce Wayne’s ear and it say he’s 5’10” and that’s just wrong. Tim’s tiny. He barely reached 5’6” and his hair here is way too short so that can’t be him.”

D.C. looked at him with an unimpressed look.

“Seriously, that’s what you’re basing this on? The Tim Drake from this world could have simply eaten better food that helped him grow up or there was a light alteration to his genes that made him taller and maybe he just got used to having short hair.”

“Well it also says he just turned 17 and I remember celebrating his 18th birthday.”

“This could simply be a timeline issue”

“He’s just weird okay! And not just him. This picture kinda creeps me out actually”.

Conner gave D.C her phone back as he started pouting. He wasn’t good with words but he knew something was wrong. It was in the attitude displayed. There had always been a level of fakeness in these kinds of pictures if only because of Brucie Wayne’s character, but the affection never felt as fake or distant as it did in this picture. DC played with her phone for a few seconds before giving it back to him.

“Maybe it was just that picture, look here are some other ones”.

So Conner tried. He looked at them all but they all gave him the same vibe. He tried to look for Bart too but nothing came up. There was only Barry Allen. He gave D.C her phone back and shook his head while trying to stifle a yawn. He would look for Cassie and the others later. He wasn’t sure he could take another disappointment right now.

It’s at this point that Granny Iris intervened.

“I think it’s time for you both to go to bed. Donna Carol you’ve flown for a while you should rest. Conner will try to get in touch with other heroes later on. I believe the Wally West you know is around somewhere. But you need to rest a little.”

Both D.C and Conner nodded and D.C lead the not-so-much Boy of Steel to the guest bedroom for the night. Before they parted ways, she informed him there should be clothes for him there and that he better explain how they knew each other after breakfast.

There was a small bathroom linked to the room and Conner used the opportunity to take himself in. He was tiny. Well not really but compared to how buff he had gotten in recent times he was closer to how he was when he was born at first. He even had his hair back. Even though he had cut it short to try and avoid looking like Superman, he had to admit that he missed having longer hair.

As he settled in his bed the only thing he could only think of one thing. He would find them no matter where they were. He was not going to lose Tim and Bart. They could probably handle themselves but he didn’t want them to have to. He didn’t want Tim to be on his own again. He just wanted to be with him right now.

- - - - - - - -

Somewhere in Metropolis

“CLARK!”

Clark Kent woke up with a start. He tried to focus on a voice he thought he heard. But when he tried to focus on it he couldn’t seem to remember what it had been.

Maybe it was just a dream. He wouldn’t have lost it if it had been real after all.

He went back to bed.

#TimKon Week #TimKon #Conner Kent #Kon El #Iris Force #Donna Carol Force / Sparx #BrOT3: TimKonBart #OTP:TimKon #BrOTP: TimKon #DC Comics #Family: The Waynes #Superboy and the Ravers #mostly...#Superboy (1994)#Rebirth is such a mess guys #I swear

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bigskydreaming · 4 years

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@dargeon-lissa I saw your note on that post, but I’m afraid I don’t have the time or energy to dive down that particular rabbit hole this week, lol. I generally avoid getting into the ‘who stole what from whom’ arguments in the first place, just because I really do love all the Batkids when fandom isn’t getting in the way, and I firmly believe there’s no need to treat characteristics or even plots as though they can only belong to one character.

So like, I happily butt in when someone says something like “YJ Dick’s hacking is stolen from Tim” because like, its not like its a knock against Tim to point out that “no, Dick’s been portrayed as an expert hacker since before Tim was created, they can both be great hackers, stop being dumb.”

And like I was saying just the other day where I think its stupid and juvenile to emphasize some idea that Dick never reads for pleasure or educates himself for the joy of learning, because some people seem to think that takes something away from Jason, if they’re also writing him with an emphasis on those characteristics.

That sort of thing.

The rest of the time though, I think it really just comes down to intent, otherwise its just a moot point.

Like, I’m not a fan of Court of Owls fics that center around Tim and basically transplant him with all of Dick’s canon connections to it....but that’s because its like...what’s your point with that fic? If its just because you like the Court of Owls and Talon plotlines but you don’t like Dick, so you’re just cut and pasting one swapped out for the other, then you’ve lost me, not because you’ve ‘stolen’ from Dick, but because you’re not doing anything NEW with the material you’ve applied to a new, different character...while disregarding its source connections.

*Shrugs* I don’t think that’s about being possessive of Dick’s storylines, its about being like....this is boring. If someone wrote a fic about Tim and the Court of Owls but doesn’t just use him in place of Dick, and still acknowledges their connection to Dick instead of trying to pretend like it or he doesn’t exist...in and of itself, I don’t have a problem with that, it just comes down to whether or not I like what they do with that. Much in the same way that I’d read fic about Dick going up against Ra’s in some specific plot, but if its set after a point in the comics where Tim’s stories started intertwining with Ra’s a lot, I would still want to see that acknowledged.

Because I do think its disingenuous to pretend that Tim’s stories don’t use Ra’s a lot more regularly than Dick’s canon stories do, even though Dick has prior interactions and stories with Ra’s that go way back before Tim existed. But like....these things don’t need to come into conflict. I can imagine a story that’s Dick vs Ra’s and that doesn’t take away from the respect (or his creepy version of it) that Ra’s has shown Tim as well. He’s allowed to regard more than one of Bruce’s kids as a worthy adversary, and it makes sense that he would. It doesn’t threaten Dick’s central role in a story like that, or his competence, to allow for the fact that Ra’s has a preoccupation with Tim as well, even if that’s not his focus in this particular plot.

And by the same token, if I were to write a story that springs out of the events of Robin: Year One, for instance, where Dick gets tangled up with Ra’s and Talia and the League because of Vengeance Academy or Boone, something like that.....and I don’t even mention Tim, because its years before Tim would have come into the picture....that’s not me stealing anything from Tim, because those prior connections existed, why shouldn’t anyone make use of them?

Oh fuck it. I clearly went down the rabbit hole anyway. Whatever, more under the cut. Why am I like this.

It goes both ways too. Yeah, sure, I think its dumb when Jason stans act like focusing on Dick’s death takes something away from the typical focus on Jason’s, like he’s less special now or this is Dick ‘stealing Jason’s thing.’ Its comic books. More characters have died and come back then haven’t. Few have their death and return be as central to their character as Jason’s is, like, the Death of Superman is an iconic story but even with that, Clark’s death and resurrection isn’t like....regarded as a fundamental part of his stories....but that doesn’t mean no one’s allowed to write stories that focus on the deaths and returns of other characters, for whatever reason.

That’s not taking anything away from Jason’s stories, its not copying him, and neither is the way Dick was believed dead for a year like, a rip off of when Steph’s story went the same way prior to that. Characters believed to be dead being revealed as alive is an equally long-running comic book trope. It applies to far more than just the two of them, and no one has proprietary claim over it, its about what you DO with it.

Now, stories that focus on Dick’s death and how he was believed dead and revealed otherwise.....that involve the rest of the Batfamily and make a point not to mention any parallels with Jason or Steph’s stories, act like nothing similar ever happened with them....then I’d be equally wary of that story because I’d be like...why? What’s the point in pretending there are no parallels, acting like Dick is the only one this has ever happened to? He doesn’t need to be, in order for it to have impact, so enough with this Highlander “There can only be one” philosophy.

Like, Dick’s one of the most iconic DC characters and has been around for 80 years. He was going to die and be brought back at some point. Deal with it. It was always inevitable, just like its pretty inevitable that its going to happen to Tim for real at some point too. It just hasn’t yet.

All that said....there have been a number of stories over the years that have posited Dick being killed by the Joker and coming back as Renegade or Red Hood. Similarly, I have no interest in reading those, not because I’m opposed to a Renegade storyline or an exploration of a darker version of Dick, but because they’re usually just a blatant cut and paste job. *Shrugs* I’ve already read that story with Jason and UTRH. I liked that story, with Jason and UTRH. Why do I need to read the same story, just with Dick now instead of Jason? I’d rather read something brand new.

Then we get to ‘stealing characters.’ Like Jason stealing Kory and Roy, and Dick stealing Kon in YJ, etc. I have the same philosophy here as I do about characteristics....its weird and not cool to me to treat characters as having ‘claim’ to any other characters...but that doesn’t mean I always like when this happens either. But its not because they’re taking what belongs to another character, its about why, and what they do with it.

Like, when its a cheap grab of established characters being now associated with a different character to give them a supporting cast with minimal effort, as opposed to building them their own supporting cast with time and care and putting thought into it...THAT’S my problem with that. I don’t typically like Jason being besties with Kory and Roy, either in canon or in fanfics....but that’s not actually because they’re Dick’s friends and can’t be Jason’s too, its because I don’t like the stories that result from that, and I don’t think they make a case or put any effort into convincing me that this needs to be a trio....the way the comics have decades worth of stories establishing a connection between Dick and Roy and Kori and Dick, and with that being why they’re so associated with him.

I don’t like Jason, Roy and Kory in canon because I just don’t like the New 52 versions of Roy and Kory period, lol. I hate what they’ve done with them, they feel watered down and tweaked in ways that add nothing to their characters, and their association with Jason irritates me not because it exists, but because of how rarely it allows their association with Dick to exist, and acts like mentioning him in their stories threatens the validity of them being with Jason. You wanna write them being Jason’s friends, DO THAT. But put some EFFORT into it. JUSTIFY it. And....don’t erase their connections to Jason’s brother because they’re not allowed to have connections with two brothers at the same time or whatever. Like, even without all their pre-Flashpoint history, New 52 Roy and Kory SHOULD show way more of a connection to Dick than their stories with Jason ever allow for, and that’s the bigger issue to me. Not that Jason ‘stole’ them, but that writers act like he can’t have stories with them without pretending their stories with Dick don’t exist.

Even in New 52, like, the Rebirth version of Titans was crap, lol, but it still existed, and like....there’s hardly any acknowledgment of Dick and Roy being long time teammates even AFTER the Titans got their memories of each other back in Rebirth. Even if they’re not the best of friends in New 52 the way they were in Flashpoint, they still had way more history in even current canon than Jason’s comicbook writers or fic writers seem willing to allow mentions of. Similarly, we barely know anything about Dick and Kory’s relationship in the New 52....but we do know they HAD one, and fucking amnesia was involved there too, lol, but like. It exists. You want to write her mostly hanging out with Jason now, fine! But like....there’s no reason her past with Dick can’t still exist, and that it would never come up.

Instead, I read way too many fics about Jason, Kory and Roy where the latter two just fucking full on hate Dick, because the writer does. Or just act like he’s a total stranger to them and their loyalty is solidly with Jason and always has been and always will be. And that’s cheap and lazy writing to me, and makes no sense and wouldn’t appeal to me even if it wasn’t Dick that was being bashed and it was a different character in a similar context.

So its not like they CAN’T be good friends with Jason, because they were such good friends with Dick first. Its just...factor that in, at least, you know? But admittedly, even were writers to do this more, it still wouldn’t be ideal IMO, with these particular characters....because I’m always gonna wonder WHY. Why them? Why these two in particular, when giving Jason more friends? Like, especially if you’re still incorporating large amounts of pre-reboot history into your characters, Jason and his dynamics with Dick and the Batfamily in particular.....its always going to be a little weird to me to have Jason of all people become besties with one of his big brother’s most iconic and longterm friends, and his big brother’s ex-fiancee and mother of his child in other timelines.

Like....its just a matter of....you couldn’t come up with anyone else? That’s why when I headcanon giving Jason more friends and teammates of his own - BECAUSE HE TOTALLY DESERVES THEM AND I WANT HIM TO HAVE THEM, I AGREE, LOL - like, I focus on characters who have no strong connections to Dick or Tim or anyone else in the Batfamily already. And its not because I don’t want to steal what ‘belongs’ to anyone else already, but because....Jason should get to build and have strong connections with characters on his own. I’d rather look through DC’s vast library of characters and find ones that I think FIT him best, have the most potential to play off his character and add to his storylines....then try and take a shortcut by seeing who’s been popular with his big brother but isn’t currently being used in big brother’s storylines, and thus can become besties with Jason without needing to put too much effort into writing that happening.

And that’s why I don’t have a ton of interest in writing Jason with Kory and Roy....because I still prefer their dynamics and history with Dick and don’t really feel they make a ton of sense to go live with his younger brother instead, so I’m happy to just have them friendly with Jason, maybe even the friends of Dick’s he’s closest too and they’ve occasionally teamed up on their own....but for Jason himself, I’d rather build him connections with Tomcat, Damage, Ray, Jade and Obsidian, Anima, maybe the aged up version of Chris Kent....characters he has a blank slate with, no prior strong associations with his older brother that innately make any connection Jason has with them at least somewhat complicated....people I feel he could play off of well and they could add a lot to each others’ characterizations and storylines, and I can easily and without conflict write them being fully in Jason’s corner in ANY kind of disagreement with even Dick or the other Titans....without there always being this weird edge where its like, are Kory and Roy on Jason’s side here just solely for his sake, or is it also because they’re pissed at Dick or the other Titans for their own reasons, or what’s going on here?

Now jump back to where I brought up how YJ Dick has been accused of stealing Kon from Tim. Like, this I think is fully dumb, and again, people can think its because I’m a Dick stan and think he should have everything lol, but its exactly what I’ve been saying all along. Its about what you do with the characters. And its about that none of them belong to any other character in the first place.

Like, can I just say I hate the whole ‘so and so needs their own super, their own speedster, their own archer’ mindset? They’re not collector’s items. They don’t go up in value once you have a complete set. If you’re trying to configure a team and make sure you have certain different archetypes and powersets because of what that allows for narratively? I’m all on board. But once you start going well Kon is Tim’s super and Jon is Damian’s....then I’m like. LOL. No. Kon is Tim’s FRIEND. Jon is Tim’s FRIEND.

And also because...that’s all Connor actually is, in Young Justice? He’s Dick’s FRIEND. And teammate. He’s not “Dick’s super” because tbh, I don’t see how he’s any more closely associated with Dick in YJ than any of the other original core cast. He’s got the exact same degree of closeness and familiarity with Dick in YJ as he does with say, Artemis. Did Artemis steal Kon too? Or are they just all friends by virtue of the YJ showrunners deciding to make Connor one of their age group, because they wanted their team to have a character with connections to Superman and Lex, not because they wanted Dick to have his own Super.

*Shrugs* And if you don’t like moving Connor to a different age group and generation of heroes in and of itself, that’s a valid complaint! But it doesn’t need to be about Dick stealing something from Tim. I hate that Raven and Beast Boy were aged down in the New 52 and the more recent animated movies and are more in Damian’s age group than Dick’s.....but that’s because I love the classic 80′s Teen Titans lineup and miss Raven and Gar’s dynamics with ALL the older Titans characters. Not because Damian stole them from Dick. I also hate Vic on the Justice League because it was nominally supposed to be to boost his profile but I think its only resulted in a regression in his stories as while a Titan, he had a LOT more narrative focus and a lot more character connections than he’s ever been given since being made an original Leaguer in the New 52′s version of the Justice League. And I don’t hate the JL for stealing Vic from the Titans, I hate the DC editorial staff for making dumb, flimsy creative choices in the name of headlines and hashtags instead of solid character choices and strong narratives.

Like, I went off for a bit there, admittedly, but god. I just hate this whole ‘so and so stole this and that from so and so’ in fandom, because its so pointless, IMO. And people take it so faaaaaar.

LOL, you know how I talk a lot about shipping Dick/Kyle? I’ve had people accuse me of ‘stealing’ Kyle from Jason....because enough people ship Jason/Kyle on the basis of the one comic they were in together and had tension in, that he’s now apparently ‘Jason’s’ and the only reason anyone could possibly have for shipping him with Dick is because Jason’s not allowed to have nice things.

I can’t even express how dumb that sounds to someone who’s been shipping Dick and Kyle ever since there like, two interactions in the Obsidian Age JLA arc that came out years before Jason was even brought back in the comics, let alone starred in a comic with Kyle. Where absolutely, yeah, he had far more interactions with Kyle than Dick and Kyle have ever had! But like, there’s not a fucking quota for non canon ships, lmao. Its not like whoever has the most interactions with someone gets to call dibs.

There’s a whole laundry list of reasons I ship Dick and Kyle together, based on their core characterizations and their storylines, and various parallels I’ve seen in both over the years. And any story I wrote with the two of them as a couple would absolutely reference Kyle’s previous history with Jason and Donna in Countdown, and have him have his own interactions and dynamics with the two of them, separate and distinct from what he had with Dick. And none of that has anything to do with wanting to ship him with Dick because he’s usually shipped with Jason and I’m jealous and want him with my fave instead, lol. I actually do ship Jason and Kyle as well at times, in other story ideas, and that actually has very little to do with their Countdown interactions as well. If anything, the reason I ship Kyle with both Jason and Dick in different scenarios is because I’ve always seen Dick and Jason as very similar in a lot of regards....and thus they both share a lot of the characterizations and story points that I parallel with Kyle’s, and are what makes me think he’s a viable love interest for either of them.

To wrap this up, I can FEEL the inevitability of someone out there saying “Big talk, but what about you insisting that Jason STOLE Robin from Dick?”

Like, I can just FEEL that on the tip of someone’s tongue, lmao.

And to that I would have to answer....uh....I’ve never ever ever even once said or suggested that Jason stole Robin. I’ve always maintained that the fault there was Bruce and Bruce’s alone, and its Bruce who has something to account for there. From an IN STORY perspective. Because of the CHARACTER reasons for Dick feeling protective and possessive of the mantle, not for any meta reason about it being his and his alone.

Because I do like all of the Robins. I’m glad all of them were Robin. My repeated insistence on stressing the importance of the name for Dick, and hating how little that’s acknowledged...is literally just that. I can like all of the Robins and still think that as the creator of the mantle, and having created it to honor the legacy of his first family, the Flying Graysons, NOT to be an extension of the Batman, I just happen to think that even with all of the Robins sharing in the legacy at this point and adding their own bits to the mantle and what it means and represents, Dick’s motivations for becoming Robin in the first place and the fact that he was not the one given the choice of turning it into a legacy is something that deserves to be upheld as the most important factor in narratives about passing on the mantle and conflict over the mantle.

Not because Dick’s the best Robin or the most important or anything that requires or suggests RANKING the Robins according to some completely arbitrary set of parameters....

but simply because Dick’s creation of the mantle and his reasons for doing it and what it meant to him from the start and to this day....are the most RELEVANT to stories about the passing on of the mantle or conflict about the mantle.

Because simply in terms of causation....without Dick’s motivations...the mantle they all fight over would not even exist. Voila. That makes them innately relevant to any discussion of the mantle in a way that say, Tim’s motivations for becoming Robin aren’t necessarily relevant to a conversation about the mantle between Dick and Jason, or Jason and Damian, or any other variation not involving Tim. Dick’s motivations are the only ones that always bear relevancy in anything pertaining to the Robin mantle, because he’s the singular commonality for it, no matter who holds it and how they got it....because he’s the one who created it.

That’s all. Its got nothing to do with best or favorite, its about....just wanting fandom to stop treating his feelings about Robin as the most irrelevant, when he’s the only single common denominator wherever Robin is concerned....and thus the most relevant.

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sweetwriting · 7 years

Text

Tim Drake Positivity Week -Day 4: Funny or Serious

Category: Gen

Genre: Humor/Fluff/Angst/Family

Fandoms: DC Comics, Batverse, Superverse

Continuity : Post-Crisis/Pre-Flashpoint referenced. Rebirth

Summary: Family is a tricky matter in those parts and it's especially true for people who were gone from the world for so long. (featuring Jon, Clark and Conner)

Word Count: 4 979

AN: I'm very late because while this piece has been finished for like a month, I didn't have time to write it on my computer so its posting has been delayed and I apologize (I was already late because it got away from me and started getting long. I had to cut some parts).

This is part of my own version of Tim Drake's come back in the DC Rebirth Plot which I've been working on and planning for, for about a year and a half now. Since I kind of loath Tynion's take on his character...I mean people talk about Lobdell but Tynion worsened everything like 100 times and at least Lobdell admitted to his fault when he created his first Origin Story by saying it wasn't Tim Drake... they literally had everything on a silver platter and they decided to throw it out. It's ridiculous I'm telling you. I still haven't read A Lonely Place of Living, I'm waiting until next Thursday to read it all at once partially because Tynion's writing feels so bland -mostly bc his notion of character development is using timeskips and because he's told a fan he considered Rebirth!Tim to be the same as preboot!Tim and it scared me more than anything because he's exactly the same as N52!Tim- partially because I didn't want to have to wait for a story I had 99% chances of disliking because of the issues I mentioned in the tags and here (or as Shawn Spencer said in Psych, "Just 'cause you put syrup on somethin', don't make it pancakes").

ANYWAY, this happens during my AU which I promise I will start posting some time in November. It kind of gives away a part of it but at the same time, it's something that's so obvious it's not really given away (especially if you've read some of my Tumblr posts). The point of the other fic being "how does it get to this point?".

To read it on AO3

Finally! It was time. Jon had been waiting for this for months (well three months). Which was when Kon-El/Conner had come back to the land of livings...or Earth. True he hadn’t been thrilled to learn about Jon’s existence at first -more the opposite actually- apparently because he and his dad had had issues? And Jon being the new Superboy or something. On top of which there had been the Tim Drake and Bart Allen cases to deal with which prevent any of the older Super’s issues to be solved. But Conner had warmed up to him and now Jon was allowed to spend his Week-End at his place. In Ca.li.for.nia!

Now Jon had gotten used to Metropolis (his self from three months ago would have killed him for it) but the sun of Metropolis wasn’t as agreeable as the one of their old town? And definitely not as nice as the one in California!

He was also finally going to really meet Damian’s “lost” brother whom he had nicknamed the “real” Tim Drake (not to be mean to the other Tim but Witness Protection program and all that Jazz made it his fake name).

So Jon was really excited. His dad was coming down the stairs now, so he could fly him over (Jon still had trouble controlling his power of flight). Jon had just kissed his mom goodbye and was literally jumping to the ceiling in excitement.

“Conner, if you keep pacing like this you’re going to leave a trail on the ground.” Conner stopped. He turned to his right to look at Tim who was reading something on his tablet, comfortably settled on the couch, lounging in jeans and T-shirt, a look Conner was still trying to get used to. Not that Tim had never worn those before, it simply hadn’t been a common sight. He tried to glare at him but the panicked look in his eyes and seemingly emanating from every pore of his skin made him look more like a scared puppy than anything else.

“You don’t get it Tim. You didn’t completely mess up with your younger brother!”

Tim looked up from his Tablet, stared at Conner for a few seconds while raising his eyebrows. It was quite obviously meant to be taken as a “seriously?” and When had Tim learned to do that? And from who? Okay, that question was easily answered. It was probably Alfred.

“I meant as a first meeting! You tried to welcome Damian while I basically just had a small fit like a spoiled brat.”

Great. He was pouting now. Tim sighed and put his tablet on the coffee table next to him. Conner sighed as well and went to sit on it so he could face Tim.

“Look I understand you’re stressed out but it’s quite clear that the kid is ready to forgive you…Plus you had extenuating circumstances…you know with the “mixed memories” and the “having just woken up in a tube” things. And you’re great with kids. Remember Traya, she could make you do anything just by looking at you? You’ll be awkward at first and then you two will be planning my doom”. He paused, seemingly deep in thoughts. “Now that I think about it, I should probably be the one to worry. I mean your little brother or nephew or cousin or whatever is friends with Damian.”

Conner snorted and looked at Tim, now a lot calmer.

“Please. I’m pretty sure you’d be able to tell if he was planning something, he’s not very sneaky”. He paused, breathing deeply. ”Okay, I’m feeling a little better now. Thanks, Wonder Boy.”

He clapped him on the knee as Tim started to smile at him. Both started when the doorbell rang and Tim saw Conner stiffen. Seeing as the meta was starting to panic again, Tim got up first, quickly followed by Conner, and answered the door. He couldn’t help the smile that grew on his face as he saw the new Superboy bouncing on the ball of his feet. He would have smiled anyway (he wasn’t the social butterfly of the Batfam for no reason after all) but at least now it was completely genuine.

“Hey, Clark, Jon, welcome.”

Jon beamed up at him and bit his lower lip as Clark had settled his hands on his shoulders, probably to prevent his son from accidentally showing his powers to their neighbors. Tim moved to his right so they could come in, closed the door and turned to see Conner awkwardly trying to start a conversation. Jon looked at them, in boredom or disbelief, Tim wasn’t sure. So he walked toward him, leaving both “older” Kryptonians (and damn, Conner was younger than his younger brother) trying to avoid the elephant in the room as he addressed Jon.

“Hey, do you want me to show you your room while these two shuffle awkwardly?”

Jon looked at him with pure relief in his eyes and replied with said relief seeping through his words.

“Yes please” He paused “Wait.” He looked between Conner and Tim “I get my own room?”

Conner, who had been glaring at Tim along with Clark, nodded at slowly, taken aback by the kid’s excitement but a smile started to grow because of it. He was definitely a cute kid. Now the point of this Week-End was to find the personality hidden underneath all the cuteness and see if they had a chance of getting along even outside of the vigilante field. Tim had been right when he had told him, a few days after being back, that Conner needed a family outside of the Teen Titans. Something more stable that didn’t rely on a roster and Tim himself was looking for his own place within the Bats or…How had he said it again? “I’d help you by lending you mine but I’m not sure what it entails right now”. And of course they had each other but Conner was sure Tim meant “aside from each other”. He used to have Ma (and Pa for a short time) but he was barely starting acclimating to them when he died and he had finally (relatively) gotten used to it, having a stable family life when those world-changing event happened. There had been that first year in Hawaï with Roxy, Tana, Dubbilex and Rex but “stable” wasn’t the word he’d use to describe that time (still the closest he had for about two years)…And well he did miss Clark and Steel (and Kara and Matrix but…). And Okay, he had never really thought about having siblings. He already had Roxy and Bart and the kids from Cadmus but the idea was appealing even if, technically, Jon would be his nephew? What did you call the child of your cousin? Now that he thought about it was his cover still that of Clark’s cousin? Or was he his brother now? His son? No. He was brought back to that first time of awareness in this new world and shuddered so briefly that only Clark had noticed it. The fact that Tim had apparently lead Jon to his room and left them to their own devices while Conner was daydreaming might have helped in that. Clark who was now lifting an eyebrow, demanding an explanation for Conner’s mind’s wandering. Nice to know Clark was still the king of righteousness. Conner sighed and replied to Clark’s silent probing.

“It’s nothing, something just reminded me of the tube I woke up in. Which got me thinking, are we gonna use the same “I’m your cousin" I.D?”

Clark cleared his throat having been clearly hoping he’d be able to avoid the topic or maybe he was just that awkward with him.

“Actually, Lois and I were thinking that since, uh, you’re not 21 yet, and Ma’s not here anymore”, he paused. Both Kents feeling the weight of her loss in their heart, she was much better at dealing with these family matters than either of them. Conner should have stayed with her. He wanted nothing more than to have stayed with her –with Tim while he sorted through his own family matters of course. But she was gone. And he had to get used to that fact. Apparently, all his parental figures had died while he was “asleep” or whatever had happened to him. Clark’s voice broke him out of his thoughts. “We thought we could be your legal guardians with me being your big brother. It’d be a little hard to explain your existence any other way without making up a whole different family tree.” He paused again. He had started to gain a good rhythm but it seemed like it wasn't easy. Clark was more used to forcing his will on Conner (even if he had gotten better at talking to him over time…Clark still wasn’t Ma Kent and the thought almost had him panicking. He tried to control his breath again -his meeting with Parallax and Sinestro not yet forgotten- and continued. Conner’s little frown didn’t help). “I meant that we would have to create a new mother and where you’d have lived before coming to Smallville -you know how thorough Batman can be when he wants to- and I just thought that me becoming my younger brother’s legal guardian after the death of our Mother made more sense. It allows you to stay here and continue your studies, if you want to. But if you need anything you know my home is yours.” Clark stopped. He was starting to mumble. This situation, with Conner, had never been easy. He had barely started to hit his 30’s when Kon had first appeared. He was too young to have a teenage son (it didn’t help that the child in question was born because a creep stole his DNA to experiment on). Now he was hitting his 40’s and Conner had lost so many years, first with his own death then with the last world-altering nonsense (if only it was only those) and he hadn’t caught up, Conner was barely out of his teens and while Clark could now be a father. Their history got in the way and Conner had a confusing enough track record and putting a little “normalcy” and “stability” in his life had been one of his main reasons to have him live with Ma in the first place. And yet, things had gotten so messed up. He looked at the young man in front of him (because at virtually 19 that’s what he was now and if it that didn’t send a wave of regret…-for Conner’s missed childhood? For not helping him like he should have been helped in his first few years? For everything Conner missed while he was forced to not grow up (and there were too many times it had happened in his life)?- then what could?). Conner seemed startled. Clark didn’t know what exactly had startled him but then he grinned and held out his hand for Clark to shake and said:

“Deal.”

Of course, Clark wasn’t naïve enough to think Conner was perfectly okay with this but being given a chance was all he could ask for. And they smiled awkwardly at each other. Damn.

“Hey Tim, what’s the matter with dad and Conner?”

Jon had just finished putting his clothes in the dresser of his room under Tim’s watchful eyes –he felt lucky he had had to deal with Bart for years and learned to watch out for hyperactive-like kids. The question, while expected was not one Tim was keen on answering.

“It’s not really my place to say at this point. Maybe you try asking him tomorrow morning?”

That pout. Damn. Tim could definitely see the family traits. Though Conner’s always seemed a lot less innocent (to be fair he never looked like an 11 years old and he almost always had terrible ideas fueling them). On a side note, what were the chances Jon had listened in on the other two? Tim didn’t know him enough to actually utter a guess.

“Anyway, due to various time issues we weren’t sure what kids your age like but we thought Video Games was kind of a timeless thing and we’ve got tons of them. Cass has been filling our living room with books if it’s more your thing but Conner and I are more comic books people…There’s also my own training gear in my version of the “Batcave” if you want.”

Apparently, those were the right things to say to divert the child’s attention because he seemed ready to start jumping again (it was probably the mention of video games).

“You’ve got video games? Are they old? ‘Cause you’re old, you’re even older than Conner and you guys haven’t had a lot of time to adjust right?”

Tim felt the urge to cry in protest but had to remind himself of the kid’s age and managed to avoid snapping at him.

“We’ve got all kinds, remember one of us is a speedster so even if Conner and I hadn’t yet, he’s had the time to catch up”

“Cool! By the way, did you mean it when you said I could train in your…what did you call it again? Nest?”

Once again Tim was glad he had had to deal with Bart for a long while otherwise, he’s not sure he could have followed Jon’s babbling. He wondered vaguely if Conner would have acted in a similar way had he been given a chance to be 11. And the bad jokes…Was Superman as bad? He seemed to be from the little times they had interacted and from what Conner had told him (though that one seemed more like unreliable narration).

“I don’t call it anything other than HQ. Conner calls it a nest too though so you can do it.” He paused. “Just please don’t use it outside of this apartment”.

Jon tried to hold in a laugh (and quite obviously failed) before Tim ushered him back downstairs.

“C’mon let’s save those two from an awkwardness overload.”

As Conner closed the door behind his cousin. Wait. Brother. It felt weird. He turned to his best friend and to the kid who apparently was his nephew now.

“So…This is finally over.”

He felt his phone vibrate in his back pocket and he felt his cheeks heat up as he read the message he had just received: “I heard that you know.” Tim and Jon looked at each other questioningly but seemed to decide not to pry (if only because they had already guessed what had happened, Jon himself having been on the receiving hand of his father’s hearing quite a few times). Conner tried to ignore them as he started walking to the kitchen.

“Alright, it’s time to eat!”

Tim’s deadpan voice came from where he and Jon and stayed, making him stop in his track:

“Conner it’s barely 6. How about we spend some downtime together”

Conner’s cheeks turned pink. in his hurry to forget what had happened with Clark he had forgotten pretty much everything else that was going on. He took a sudden turn to the right, toward the living room as he exclaimed:

“Video Games it is.”

Tim sighed and mumbled something about how it was lucky Jon was part of a video games generation and they had already decided it was going to be their next activity or the night would have started badly.

“Right, turn on the Switch, we still have the last sonic game to play and it’s ideal when we have guests”.

Tim snorted as he approached his best friend who had paused in the doorway, patting him on the back as he took his wrist to lead him toward the various video game stations they had. He turned to John.

“C’mon, want to help me destroy his sorry ass?”

“Tim! Don’t talk like that! Clark’s never gonna forgive me if we talk that way in front of his kid!”

Conner was starting to panic, and Tim felt sorry for him. That he was so stressed out about something as simple as…What was wrong exactly with what he had said? He looked at Conner Questioningly.

“You realize you’re not supposed to use words like “ass” in front of a kid, right?”

Tim’s eyes turned slightly vacant. He had, in fact, not known that.

“Oh.”

He turned toward Jon who, annoyed, was grumbling about not being a kid.

“Sorry Jon, I had no idea Conner had become a proper adult. You shall now only refer to him for adult matters. He’s the responsible one”.

Tim had left Conner’s side to set up the console with Jon while his friend was still shell-shocked. Conner was fuming, and he started to raise his arms in frustration.

“It’s not funny Tim! You know how much is riding on this!”

Tim stopped for a second and signed for Jon to keep taking out the console. He got up and walked toward Conner setting his hands gently on his right shoulder and forearm so Conner would drop his arms. He did, forcing Tim to drop his hands and turned to face Tim whose left hand had replaced his right one on Conner’s right shoulder as the other settled on the left side of his neck, hoping he could get his best friend to look him in the eye so he could try to ground him and avoid what he knew was going to turn into a sour mood.

“Hey, it’s okay Conner. Jon’s 11 so I doubt he’s never heard the word before that and he probably knows not to use this kind of language in front of his parents. And you’re stressing yourself too much this is just a mise-en-bouche.”

He stopped for a second, making sure Conner was looking into his eyes “But I promise I’ll make an effort” He patted his friend’s neck and put his hands back to his side and started to walk back toward the consoles. “C’mon let’s get defeated by your brother…Nephew...whichever.”

Conner caught up to him in a few tranquil strokes (being taller than Tim had its advantages and reminding him of the fact was one of them).

“Apparently, it’s Nephew, I’m Clark’s little brother now. Also you might get defeated but that’s because you su- I mean you’re awful at those kinds of Video Games.”

Tim was smiling. He knew it. He may not have been able to see it but he could feel Tim’s wry smile. It was there. Because not two minutes ago he had been pani- no he had been lecturing Tim about his language and he almost had a slip up himself. But Tim seemed to feel magnanimous enough not to mention it…yet.

They had been playing for about an hour and Jon had, in fact, kicked their asses. Conner would probably feel less sulky if Tim hadn’t gotten the best of him too.

He was starting to pout (glare. He was glaring at them) when Tim interrupted the game to say they should prepare their snacks-dinner and to join him once he was done taking the ingredients out. Conner wondered what it could be since they didn’t have much more than pasta ingredients and it wasn’t really “snack-dinner” worthy…Unless…Nah Tim wouldn’t show this side of them to a new guest…Would he?

Anyway, Tim had been in the middle of the couch, between the two Supers and feeling him slip away had Conner almost latching onto his arm and beg him to stay with them when the older teen threw him a look that meant “He’s here so you guys could bond, I’ve been playing the mediator for the past hour and a half, it’s time to deal with your shit”. Okay, so maybe Conner was reading a little more into this and the look just meant “grow a pair”, or “grow up”. The point of the message was still the same.

And damn, it was probably gonna be awkward. What if it was as awkward as when he talked to Clark but this time he would be in Clark’s shoes? This is a terrible ending. What if…

“Tim’s really cool! You’re lucky he was your Robin. I have to deal with Damian. I mean, we get along better (way better) than we did months ago but he’s still a pain. Tim was probably a thousand time more fun to deal with! I mean he’s already much more fun to deal with than most of the other bats even if he’s old.”

Conner looked at the new Superboy, mouth slightly open at having been interrupted in his internal freakout. He couldn’t help but laugh, both at Jon’s conclusion and in relief, startling the kid.

“Oh, Believe me, Tim wasn’t fun or even funny back then. Well…He still isn’t funny. His jokes are awful. He was our leader you know, so he felt responsible for our lives. Plus back then there was the secret identity issue. It frustrated me a lot. Back then we…We didn’t get along actually. In a different way from you and Damian because we wanted to be friends but the circumstances got in the way and pushed us apart. It was quite complicated if I’m being honest. Way more than I realized back then”.

He paused looking at his hands. He had loved that time; when they were all pretty innocent even if some of the most tragic moments of their lives happened during that very period of time : Tana’s death, Guardian’s, Gotham turning into a No Man’s Land, Bruce being accused of murder and going awry, the first time the gap between Tim and Steph really made itself known, Cissie almost killing someone, one of Bart’s clones dying…Apokolips in general…, among others. He really missed the innocence they had before all those events started accumulating. On the other hand, and he knew it was selfish of him considering all the hurt that was needed to get there and how much it caused afterwards, he wouldn’t give up the depth it had given to his and Tim’s friendship for anything in the world, with maybe the exception of Tim having a happy life. He looked up at the kid beside him, hoping he wouldn’t have to go through half as much as he did (but he had Clark and Lois and there was a better support system for young Heroes so he was already off to a better start than Kon had been, and he’d make sure to help keep it that way). He had to take a deep breath as nostalgia took hold of his heart. Because despite everything he had just thought, he wished the evolution of his and Tim’s relationship hadn’t happened at the expense of their innocence and he felt terrible at being responsible for such a big part of Tim’s own. Whether during the war or when he died. He was brought back to reality by Jon hovering next to his arm, looking slightly worried. Conner tried to recompose himself as he continued:

“What I mean is that we had to go through many trials for Tim –and the rest of us really- to learn, and re-learn to have fun and stop being so serious all the time. Now that Tim’s not needed in Gotham, he’s free to be more…at ease I guess…That and he’s trying to make us more...content I guess, so we would have less of a chance to end up like his family.”

He watched Jon grimace and mutter a small “yeah no kidding” and he winked at the kid. He was starting to truly like him. But he felt it was time to join Tim, after all –and despite what Tim himself might think- he needed to bond with Jon almost as much as Conner did.

They both got up as Conner ushered the young hero toward the kitchen which they found filled with recipients and when Conner started smelling it, all he could do was stop abruptly and say:

“Wait a second. Cheese? Potatoes. More cheese?” He paused, his voice going lower as if he had found the answer to the universe because he realized Tim had actually decided on what he had hoped they would be eating. “A deep fryer.”

He shared a look with Tim who smiled at him and they both exclaimed at the same time:

“Cuatro Quesos Dos Fritos!”

Jon started, surprised at their exclamation, staring at them as if they were aliens. Okay, wrong choice of word. Not alien, but something he hadn’t expected. Wondering if they weren’t lunatics –or if they really were adults. He asked in a small voice:

“What’s Quatro Quesos Dos Fritos?”

Tim seemed to remember they had a novice in the delicious art of cheesy food with them and started explaining as he got close to the oven.

“Only the most delicious snack of all time. It’s potatoes filled with a cheese mixture. And when they’re finished, they look a little something like this.”

While he had been distracting both Supers with his little explanation, Tim had taken a plate from within the oven and showed it to them. Conner looked at him, half amazed, half laughing.

“Dude, how did you just fabricate Cuatro Quesos Dos Fritos out of thin air?”

Tim smiled as Jon looked like a fish out of water. Luckily Conner had decided to humor him in his little game.

“C’mon Conner this is how all successful TV chefs do it.” He turned to Jon, his smile threatening to break his face as he took in Jon’s amazed look. “Try one of those, kid, because here’s the best part, they’re very healthy for us."

Jon snorted as he tried one of the Cuatro Quesos dos Fritos then stopped as he was hit by the amazing flavor of the treat, ready to complain to his father for hiding such marvelous food from him all his life. Conner, for his part, rolled his eyes and chose to focus on the delicious taste of the potatoes as he replied:

“I don’t even care that’s not true”

Tim looked affronted as if Conner had said the worse possible thing.

“Are you kidding? All major cheese groups are represented, you’ve got yellow, orange and white!”

Jon grinned as the two almost adults started arguing on the benefits of cheese.

They spent their night making Cuatro Quesos Dos Fritos and playing video Games. Jon complained about Damian (fully supported by Tim) and talked about his adventures in Super Hero-ing while Conner traded him for some of his own. Mostly those back in Hawai (no need for the kid to know about those times he was left to his own device or his Luthor Paranoia) with Roxy, Tana, Dubbilex, Rex and Sam. And while his heart squeezed when he thought about them (Dubbilex was dead and there was nothing he could do about it), they remained at the back of his thoughts. He was starting to truly move on from that part of his life and the various circumstances that had caused him so much grief. He was happy. His relationship with Jon was merely in its early stages, they were merely acquaintances at this point, but he could actually say “early” and believe there would be a follow-up.

He was happily settled against Tim, sharing his family with him because that’s how far they had gotten and he now had a nephew who looked up to him and it both scared him and left him elated (it almost reminded him of Bart when he was Impulse but he had known Kon’s issues better than Jon did and was much less star struck by him).

The best part though was that they were here making jokes and smiling and being happy without thinking about what could go wrong and, really, he couldn’t think of anything he would want more at this point (except having Bart and even Cassie with them).

Bonus:

“Can you believe it Robin? They had so many video games it was amazing! And Cuatro Quesos Dos Fritos had to be made in heaven, it’s hard to believe they exist!”

It was Sunday night and Jon and Damian had gone out for “Patrol” as Damian called it, and Jon had started rambling about his week-end in California the second Damian showed up. He snorted. His relationship with this Drake was more vitriolic than with the other one. Some details were confusing. The merging of the worlds meant that some things didn’t make complete sense as their different sets of memories adjusted to each other and some were just lost. In any case, it didn’t mean he had to be happy to hear about Drake’s “amazingness”.

“I’ve got to say though, I didn’t know what to expect when I got there but they’re so cool. Conner’s so lucky to have a boyfriend as cool as Tim!” He paused. “Wait, does that mean that we’re…kinda officially a family and…”

“They’re not dating”.

The voice cut right through Jon’s monologue like a cold shower would a heat streak gotten on a beach near Ajaccio. Jon was dumbstruck.

“What?”

Damian tried to level his eyes with Jon.

“I said that they’re not dating. As in they’re not together, not in a relationship”

Jon froze and Damian started waving his right hand in front of the younger boy’s eyes until he started blinking again. It was as if his stress levels had risen all at once and so had the pitch of his voice.

“How the hell is that possible ! ? “

Jon was now reviewing his whole Week-End, completely lost and looked at Damian when the boy, coming out of his own shock at Jon’s vocabulary, cleared his throat, trying to regain his snark.

“Now do you understand why I call Drake an idiot?”

AEN: First thing firsts, Conner actually knows what happened to him he just doesn’t want to think about it more than he has to. It was also a fairly important plot point in the real fic so when I thought about it later on I was fairly relieved :p

2nd, in my mind, Tim is about 6-10 months older than Conner. Because Conner was 16 for like a year and a half but when he started aging Tim was 15. So he died when he was 17 and Tim had turned 16 like 3 months before (Tim’s 16th Birthday issue happened around the beginning of Teen Titans). Then Kon was dead for a year and a half going on two years, Tim was 17 almost 18 at the end of Red Robin (we know that if N52 hadn’t happened we would have an issue about Tim’s 18th Birthday fairly soon after) so he was about 17 and a half (probably a little more) when Conner came back to life. Hence Tim being between 6 and 10 months older than Conner.

3. they need hugs. They all do.

4. the Cuatro Quesos Dos Fritos was shamelessly stolen from the Psych Slumber Party bit on USA today for a Psych Marathon a few years ago. Because Half the time I see Shawn and Gus I can't help but think of Tim and Kon (except I reverse the roles often). I just slightly modified it to fit the story. (but seriously if you haven't, go watch the first four seasons of Psych).

#Tim Drake #Clark Kent #Conner Kent #TimKon #Tim Drake Positivity Week #Batverse #BrOTP: TimKon #OTP: TimKon #DC comics #Angst & Fluff #Psych #Jon Samuel Kent

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sweettsubaki · 7 years

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I hope that v5 arc you mentioned plays into Rebirth. I'm not sure if it was intended to from the beginning but I could forgive it if it were explained away as Manhattan wackery screwing with their brains and making them all into douches. (And the power of their friendship managed to overcome it for *one glorious moment* and then it all fell apart and Kon flew into a wall. It'd be so melodramatic I would cry. Group hugs, everyone.) I hope it will. I'm not sure it will. What do you think?

About This

Are you talking about the Kon one ?I don’t think so, I think the authors were given the instruction to get rid of Kon as much as possibly can and to give Bar Torr a reason for not coming back.The simple reason is that unlike with Tim, they listened to the readers in their complaints (they also might have had some fans *cough*Geoff Johns*cough* who actually realized they were different characters, it’s at least 99.9999999% sure in Kon’s case) I was hoping that’s what Tim’s “death” would be about in ‘Tec Rebirth but apparently they’ve become hell bent on trying to make us believe they’re the same character (ironically enough every time they do, he gets further away, in the end Lobdell wasn’t Tim’s worse writer…. who would have thought).

The thing is, it’s not a matter of behavior, even if Manhattan had made sure they’d be douches, the world would have “adapted” to it. For example Tim had a very loving and present family in N52, both of which he didn’t have preboot so that’d be the universe adapting to how Manhattan changed Tim’s neuronal connection ? Well no, if it had then Tim would have had to live in certain circumstances none of which include loving and nurturing parents (if anything he might become slightly arrogant ? Even then I think he’d just be confident)… What they changed wasn’t the behavior but the personality (for the record : Personality = a person’s core, behavior = personality altered by environment). I still think my Nozaki idea™ (which, by its very nature is a crack theory) actually makes more sense than anything they’ve tried to come up with in recent events…

Honestly out of all the TT’s core 4 Cassie’s the only one who didn’t feel like a different character (she was a watered down, 2 dimensional character, but most of her tropes were actually there for most of her life in the preboot), so beside the 2D feels instead of a fleshed out character one of my main issue is how over-sexualized she was (seriously people she’s 16-17, this is really really really creepy), which is something that already annoyed me in the preboot (luckily not all artists did that), my main issue with her is, as I said in the previous post the secret origin story with her “god” family and while I get that it wasn’t just to excuse her behavior, that it was also to link her to Wonder Woman they didn’t need to do it that way, Wonder Woman could have seen her worth and decide to take her under her wing.I mean I already wasn’t happy with the retcon in TT v3 because, well I don’t especially like her since spoiled brats aren’t my cup of tea, but she did have some great moments and the way she “bullied” Zeus in her origin story well…it was great and learning that she was actually his daughter made the gesture suddenly…well more patronizing, it’s not about seeing a spark of potential in her anymore :/.On that same note, I especially disliked all the “yeah but you know my mom worked at a museum so she wasn’t always there” trope in the preboot, like have you MET Helena Sandsmark ? If anything she was slightly over protective, so you can’t tell me that if she couldn’t get home on time she didn’t have a baby sitter on call for her daughter or, once she was too old, made sure she had already prepared meals to re-heat or simply taught her the basics (like cooking you damn TT Annual). It’s especially annoying since this trope took up at around the time after the death of Tim’s father who in this case WAS neglectful and in some cases verbally abusive and we got songs of “you had the love and care of your father for 15 years”, like no ? His origin story is that he was alone and reported his need for a family on Batman and Robin (then again most of those weren’t actually written by Johns but some of those still were written by him, it’s also worth noting that most of Kon and Cassie’s development as a couple happened on adrenaline whether it’s their first kiss or their ‘first time’ which was why having them saying I love you to each other made me facepalm, but this time I can actually believe it’s due to the fact that they’re still kids and mixing lust+like and love is normal…literally in Kon’s case)…And I’m gonna stop here, I went off track, sorry.

Back to the matter at hand : Cassie. She can still be used, maybe if she met Wally he might spark the beginning of memory in her brain (I mean I don’t think we’ve seen him talk about Bart yet, I get you’re sad about Linda but c’mon, And what about Max Mercury ?), because Bart was a very good friend of hers, she’s probably the only one in the N52/Rebirth lineup who could get that memory jogged up which could lead to something.

Honestly at this point I don’t care that much anymore, like I’d be happy if they managed to get a feel at least similar to their preboot but it’d be ruined if the writing is similar to what we have today in a lot of comic writings. Aka Superficial. Nice moments are nice, but if there’s nothing behind it then they’re empty (*cough*Batman #16*cough*the Batfam in N52*cough*’Tec Rebirth*cough*). so I’d settle for good characterization and well written relationships (in which case I should at least get my TimKon friendship back, because you can’t characterize and develop them well and not have them be friends :p), even if it means that they won’t be the “core 4″ again (I’d still prefer to have them together, at least Kon, Bart and Tim, because while Cassie was one of the 4 main she still was slightly apart from these 3, but if it’s well written I wouldn’t mind if they weren’t as close). And maybe finally, FINALLY they’d stop trying to push Tim and Steph together, like, let these poor kids live their lives instead of shackling them to each other and have them be in either generic relationship n°13615360 or toxic relationship n°1351920.

So your idea would be nice if they hadn’t spent N52 and Rebirth making sure the characters couldn’t be used that way.

#DC Comics #Tim Drake #Bart Allen #Cassandra Sandsmark #Kon El #Conner Kent #DC Meta #DC Headcanons #Tim Drake Meta #Tim Drake Headcanons #Superverse Headcanons #Superverse Meta #Answer #Anonymous #Kon El/Conner Kent

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