#so much rimmer

[cuddlytogas]

So I accidentally almost got into an argument on Twitter, and now I'm thinking about bad historical costuming tropes. Specifically, Action Hero Leather Pants.

See, I was light-heartedly pointing out the inaccuracies of the costumes in Black Sails, and someone came out of the woodwork to defend the show. The misunderstanding was that they thought I was dismissing the show just for its costumes, which I wasn't - I was simply pointing out that it can't entirely care about material history (meaning specifically physical objects/culture) if it treats its clothes like that.

But this person was slightly offended on behalf of their show - especially, quote, "And from a fan of OFMD, no less!" Which got me thinking - it's true! I can abide a lot more historical costuming inaccuracy from Our Flag than I can Black Sails or Vikings. And I don't think it's just because one has my blorbos in it. But really, when it comes down to it...

What is the difference between this and this?

Here's the thing. Leather pants in period dramas isn't new. You've got your Vikings, Tudors, Outlander, Pirates of the Caribbean, Once Upon a Time, Will, The Musketeers, even Shakespeare in Love - they love to shove people in leather and call it a day. But where does this come from?

Obviously we have the modern connotations. Modern leather clothes developed in a few subcultures: cowboys drew on Native American clothing. (Allegedly. This is a little beyond my purview, I haven't seen any solid evidence, and it sounds like the kind of fact that people repeat a lot but is based on an assumption. I wouldn't know, though.) Leather was used in some WWI and II uniforms.

But the big boom came in the mid-C20th in motorcycle, punk/goth, and gay subcultures, all intertwined with each other and the above. Motorcyclists wear leather as practical protective gear, and it gets picked up by rock and punk artists as a symbol of counterculture, and transferred to movie designs. It gets wrapped up in gay and kink communities, with even more countercultural and taboo meanings. By the late C20th, leather has entered mainstream fashion, but it still carries those references to goths, punks, BDSM, and motorbike gangs, to James Dean, Marlon Brando, and Mick Jagger. This is whence we get our Spikes and Dave Listers in 1980s/90s media, bad boys and working-class punks.

And some of the above "historical" design choices clearly build on these meanings. William Shakespeare is dressed in a black leather doublet to evoke the swaggering bad boy artist heartthrob, probably down on his luck. So is Kit Marlowe.

But the associations get a little fuzzier after that. Hook, with his eyeliner and jewellery, sure. King Henry, yeah, I see it. It's hideously ahistorical, but sure. But what about Jamie and Will and Ragnar, in their browns and shabby, battle-ready chic? Well, here we get the other strain of Bad Period Drama Leather.

See, designers like to point to history, but it's just not true. Leather armour, especially in the western/European world, is very, very rare, and not just because it decays faster than metal. (Yes, even in ancient Greece/Rome, despite many articles claiming that as the start of the leather armour trend!) It simply wasn't used a lot, because it's frankly useless at defending the body compared to metal. Leather was used as a backing for some splint armour pieces, and for belts, sheathes, and buckles, but it simply wasn't worn like the costumes above. It's heavy, uncomfortable, and hard to repair - it's simply not practical for a garment when you have perfectly comfortable, insulating, and widely available linen, wool, and cotton!

As far as I can see, the real influence on leather in period dramas is fantasy. Fantasy media has proliferated the idea of leather armour as the lightweight choice for rangers, elves, and rogues, a natural, quiet, flexible material, less flashy or restrictive than metal. And it is cheaper for a costume department to make, and easier for an actor to wear on set. It's in Dungeons and Dragons and Lord of the Rings, King Arthur, Runescape, and World of Warcraft.

And I think this is how we get to characters like Ragnar and Vane. This idea of leather as practical gear and light armour, it's fantasy, but it has this lineage, behind which sits cowboy chaps and bomber/flight jackets. It's usually brown compared to the punk bad boy's black, less shiny, and more often piecemeal or decorated. In fact, there's a great distinction between the two Period Leather Modes within the same piece of media: Robin Hood (2006)! Compare the brooding, fascist-coded villain Guy of Gisborne with the shabby, bow-wielding, forest-dwelling Robin:

So, back to the original question: What's the difference between Charles Vane in Black Sails, and Edward Teach in Our Flag Means Death?

Simply put, it's intention. There is nothing intentional about Vane's leather in Black Sails. It's not the only leather in the show, and it only says what all shabby period leather says, relying on the same tropes as fantasy armour: he's a bad boy and a fighter in workaday leather, poor, flexible, and practical. None of these connotations are based in reality or history, and they've been done countless times before. It's boring design, neither historically accurate nor particularly creative, but much the same as all the other shabby chic fighters on our screens. He has a broad lineage in Lord of the Rings and Pirates of the Caribbean and such, but that's it.

In Our Flag, however, the lineage is much, much more intentional. Ed is a direct homage to Mad Max, the costuming in which is both practical (Max is an ex-cop and road warrior), and draws on punk and kink designs to evoke a counterculture gone mad to the point of social breakdown, exploiting the thrill of the taboo to frighten and titillate the audience.

In particular, Ed is styled after Max in the second movie, having lost his family, been badly injured, and watched the world turn into an apocalypse. He's a broken man, withdrawn, violent, and deliberately cutting himself off from others to avoid getting hurt again. The plot of Mad Max 2 is him learning to open up and help others, making himself vulnerable to more loss, but more human in the process.

This ties directly into the themes of Our Flag - it's a deliberate intertext. Ed's emotional journey is also one from isolation and pain to vulnerability, community, and love. Mad Max (intentionally and unintentionally) explores themes of masculinity, violence, and power, while Max has become simplified in the popular imagination as a stoic, badass action hero rather than the more complex character he is, struggling with loss and humanity. Similarly, Our Flag explores masculinity, both textually (Stede is trying to build a less abusive pirate culture) and metatextually (the show champions complex, banal, and tender masculinities, especially when we're used to only seeing pirates in either gritty action movies or childish comedies).

Our Flag also draws on the specific countercultures of motorcycles, rockers, and gay/BDSM culture in its design and themes. Naturally, in such a queer show, one can't help but make the connection between leather pirates and leather daddies, and the design certainly nods at this, with its vests and studs. I always think about this guy, with his flat cap so reminiscient of gay leather fashions.

More overtly, though, Blackbeard and his crew are styled as both violent gangsters and countercultural rockstars. They rove the seas like a bikie gang, free and violent, and are seen as icons, bad boys and celebrities. Other pirates revere Blackbeard and wish they could be on his crew, while civilians are awed by his reputation, desperate for juicy, gory details.

This isn't all of why I like the costuming in Our Flag Means Death (especially season 1). Stede's outfits are by no means accurate, but they're a lot more accurate than most pirate media, and they're bright and colourful, with accurate and delightful silks, lace, velvets, and brocades, and lovely, puffy skirts on his jackets. Many of the Revenge crew wear recognisable sailor's trousers, and practical but bright, varied gear that easily conveys personality and flair. There is a surprising dedication to little details, like changing Ed's trousers to fall-fronts for a historical feel, Izzy's puffy sleeves, the handmade fringe on Lucius's red jacket, or the increasing absurdity of navy uniform cuffs between Nigel and Chauncey.

A really big one is the fact that they don't shy away from historical footwear! In almost every example above, we see the period drama's obsession with putting men in skinny jeans and bucket-top boots, but not only does Stede wear his little red-heeled shoes with stockings, but most of his crew, and the ordinary people of Barbados, wear low boots or pumps, and even rough, masculine characters like Pete wear knee breeches and bright colours. It's inaccurate, but at least it's a new kind of inaccuracy, that builds much more on actual historical fashions, and eschews the shortcuts of other, grittier period dramas in favour of colour and personality.

But also. At least it fucking says something with its leather.

#everyone say 'thank you togas' for not including a long tangent about evil rimmer in red dwarf 5x05 #Our Flag Means Death #Togas does meta #and yes these principles DO fall apart slightly in s2 and i DON'T like those costumes as much #don't get me wrong they're fun and gorgeous - but generally a bit less deep and more inaccurate. so. :( #I'm not sure this really says anything new about Our Flag but I just needed to get my thoughts out #i hate hate hate Gritty Period Drama costumes they're so boring and so ugly and so wrong #god bless OFMD for using more than 3 muted colours and actually putting men in heels (and not as a shorthand for rich/foppish villainy) <3 #looking at that Tudors still is insane like they really will go to any lengths to not make men feel like they've got bare legs XD #image descriptions in alt text #and yes i DID just sink about two hours into those so you'd better appreciate them

[a-literal-toaster-wtf]

holly sketch page bc she deserves it

#i love her so much actually #she’s also insanely fun to draw #red dwarf #holly the computer #arnold rimmer

[cruiseshipmoment]

The fact that, even in Mac's fantasy of saving the day, he imagines screwing up and getting killed pains me. That man's self-concept is a mess. The version of himself he imagines is more in line with the action stars he idolizes and yet is unable to keep people safe, in one case being directly responsible for a death. This is the same man who is deeply anxious about safety ("I kept everybody safe! Safe!," the sunglasses thing). Just, how warped is his own self image that he doesn't imagine succeeding at that?

This whole thing is capped off by the "happy ending" of the fantasy being... dying and going to Heaven where he will join God in "ignor[ing] everyone's prayers." There's a whole thing to unpack there regarding the way Christian fundamentalism simultaneously idolizes and downplays dying. There's a whole other thing to unpack regarding trauma and feelings of hopelessness, including the implication that Mac is pleading with God in vain outside the fantasy. The best thing he can imagine is being dead, and that is so sad to me if I think about it for more than 30 seconds.

#Every time I see it reminds me so so much of that episode of Red Dwarf #where Rimmer's brain physically will not let the lotus-eater machine give him nice things #taking the tragicomedy too seriously again what else is new #its always sunny in philadelphia #it's always sunny in philadelphia #iasip #mac mcdonald #the gang saves the day

[gothwizardmagic]

moonlight exists

My first large scale pixel project in over ten years! Feeling pretty rusty, but I'm super happy with how this came out! Normal size and progress gif under the cut.

Progress gif saved in roughly 1 hour intervals

#red dwarf #rimster #dave lister #arnold rimmer #red dwarf fanart #pixel art #art #artists on tumblr #pixel artist #hOUGH MY GOD I CANT BELIEVE IM FINALLY DONE WITH THIS #IT WAS FUN BUT SO MUCH FUCKGIN WORRRRRKKKKKKKKKKKKK #i dont think ive ever spent this long on an art project ever #fourteen hours over the course of a week.................... #well over half of them on rimmer because i couldnt figure out chris barries FUCKING FACE #im still happier with lister but im DONE with this lmao #rimster nation i did this for You #ty to the red dwarf discord for putting up with ten thousand wips of this we are all finally free #watch me post it then immediately spot another mistake #ive already edited it twice since i started writing the actual post #and had to go back and make tweaks quickly #no im done im DONE i refuse to be not done anymore i am DONE #rowan doodles

[nerd6log]

Watching a load of Red Dwarf Behind The Scenes stuff and it's so wholesome the way Chris compliments everyone like "we were lucky to have the wonderful (name here)", "the amazing (such and such here)", he must be actually the nicest guy in the universe

#i love him so much #and i mean as more than the fact i had a massive crush on him when i was younger watching the show #hes just such a sweetheart #i want to meet him because he just seems so lovely #chris barrie #red dwarf #arnold rimmer

[veronica-rich]

It's a fucking good weekend for the L/R contingent, yeah? I feel like one of those SPN fans who heard from the mate of someone they knew went to a con where Jensen and Misha held hands or something.

#red dwarf #lister/rimmer #rimster #these two old farts #bonus Kryten as a disapproving MIL #“oh sir you could do so much better” #“Krytes there are only 4 of us on this ship” #“that's what I meant!”

[iiep-wop]

Just thinking about how Kryten and Cat don't know that our Rimmer left in place of Ace, all they know is that Rimmer's hologram died and Ace left again

They just think that Lister was mourning a dead guy when Rimmer went instead of mourning the fact that he could technically see Rimmer again but the chances were insanely slim

I'm pretty sure that they still think that the Ace that came back in Stoke me a Clipper is the original Ace. Also I'm pretty sure that they don't know about the millions of dead Rimmers.

This feels like it would cause some confusion in a Rimmer comes back type situation -let alone after Rimmer came back to life in 8 (I still recon Cat would have made some comment about how "how come we still have to put up with goalpost head? He needs to learn to stay dead")

Like Ace's ship lands in the docking bay again and Kryten and Cat are like "woah he's back for the third time, what luck, what a guy"

And Lister is like "is that even my Rimmer??"

And then Rimmer can't keep up the Ace facade forever around them so he just goes "guys it's me, it's Rimmer, guess what I didn't die that time, Ace did and I've been pretending to be him ever since"

And Cat and Kryten are all shocked and like "dude what the why didn't we get told about this? Lister did you know about this?"

And Lister's like " yeah ._."

And Kochanski's like "woah you guys thought he was properly dead?" Because I think that Lister probably would have told Kochanski that Rimmer was Ace

Anyway this is probably the most incoherent post ever because I had the idea at stupid o clock in the night and typed it as quick as possible but do you see the vision

Because I think the fact that Cat and Kryten don't know is way too overlooked sometimes in reunion fics

Anyway idk what this was

#red dwarf #ace rimmer #the cat #kryten #dave lister #ace rimmer reunion fics are everything to me though #love them so much

[ostaramaclay]

Feel my blade, loneliness: may your foulness rot in hell!

Rimmer's reactions to Lister's displays of affection in Terrorform

#red dwarf #rimmer #lister #lister x rimmer #rimmer x lister #rimster #terrorform #slowing it down makes it so much more painful UGH #Poor rimmer

[quiddlegoose]

pov you take your space oc no one knows about and put him in an outfit from a space show no one knows about

[ID: Quiddlegoose's original character, Jed Jupiter, in an outfit from the opening scene of "Parallel Universe" in series two of Red Dwarf. End ID.]

#quiddlegoose art #ferris quiddlegoose ocs #escape infinity #oc: jed jupiter #oc #oc art #original character #original character art #space cowboys #described #red dwarf #i think about tongue tied so much you guys dont even know #if rimmer and jed ever met theyd be so sick of each other so fast but also theyd be besties. does this make sense

[hemlockbeauty]

Women’s day 💕

He let me eat his ass for hours 💘

#humiliation kink #degradation k1nk #degredation kink #corruption kink #dumbification #feetish #piss kink #ass rimmer #ball sucking #loser humiliation #ass sniffing #i love women so much

[yaminerua]

I think the thing that fucks me up more about Lister’s dream is the hug that comes just before the kiss.

like the kiss moment itself is a tad awkward and it was probably kind of meant to be and it’s played a little silly for the dream sequence as they just smush their faces together (and also that puckering of Rimmer’s lips as they lean in lmao)

But I mean it makes me feral anyway bc I can’t believe they did that at all and I love the implication much later in Red Dwarf that dreams and hallucinations etc create their own universes so Somewhere out there there’s at least one universe where that moment was real and they’re fully canon somewhere;;;

But anyway the moment immediately before the kiss even happens gets me every time.

Like they’ve just said they both miss each other and the emotional weight of the moment becomes too much so Lister gets up and pulls Rimmer into a hug and Rimmer’s face destroys me bc it’s very much that ‘oh god…I’m finally home’ kind of hug.

Like he looks a little overwhelmed immediately, like all the air’s been knocked out of him by this first touch with Lister since that last goodbye hug in Stoke Me A Clipper. A hug itself is a kind of comfort he probably hasn’t experienced much of in the first place and certainly not one with as much emotional weight to it. The knowledge that someone missed him, that Lister missed him!! And the little sway they do in the hug, and the way Rimmer’s face softens hearing Lister tell him not to leave ever again. It makes my heart burst;;;

#Red dwarf #I want them to have had a moment like that when Rimmer DID come back from being Ace;; maybe the right moment didn’t come #or whether their own awkwardness got in the way. It’s not impossible for lister to move in instinctively for a hug then remember the dream #and awkwardly dial it back down to a handshake or something and push down the emotional vulnerability #esp given Rimmer’s attempts to quantum skip away again later it’s possible that theres a lack of an emotional welcome home that eats at him #like he could go away again and it wouldn’t matter bc he didn’t know how much lister missed him. It didn’t get the right closure #which culminates in the moonlight speech. The closest thing lister can get to being honest about needing Rimmer to stick around #it’s still too much in some ways to just Say What He Means and feels in straightforward ways #So we’re sun and moon and moonlight only exists because of both of us is the way to go

[themagicalfancat]

#op #arnold judas rimmer #arnold rimmer #red dwarf #i love this man so much #also me every time a doctor tells me theres something wrong with me

[a-literal-toaster-wtf]

constantly fighting the battle between “rimmer is completely undiagnosed” and “he got a diagnosis when he was too young to remember but his parents never told him”. either way the inherit trauma of going for such a long period of time without the proper supports you need plays in heavily

#red dwarf #arnold rimmer #totally not projecting #this is about him being autistic btw just to clear it up #the secret third option: he is diagnosed and he knows he’s diagnosed but doesn’t tell anyone because he was taught to be ashamed of it #god. this bad boy can fit so much internalised ableism in it

[psychidelias]

So in the alternate ending of "Only The Good..." having nano Rimmer come back with the antidote and then dying via soda can to the face, it would be a great full circle thing where he saves the crew and then dies, vs the pilot where he kills the crew then dies.

#red dwarf #arnold rimmer #ough season eight has balls making me think about it when I dislike it so much #like I dont hate it #but krytie tv can go die in a hole #back in the red sort of isnt great #love cassandra though

[gothwizardmagic]

WHY DOES LISTERS SHIRT HAVE A PICTURE OF RIMMER ON IT?!?!??!

#red dwarf #EXTREMELY NORMAL BEHAVIOUR #we talk so much about how insane rimmer is we overlook lister but look at this man

[bloody-sick-of-1973]

Poor Rimmer in S03 E02.

He was so happy and proud of Listers "sacrifice" that he even burned some of his things willingly. Rip

#red dwarf #arnold rimmer #i got so much secondhand embarasment during that