#spindlehorse negative

[spooky-donut-ghost-house]

What the actual fuck is this take????

#hazbin hotel negativity #hazbin hotel negative #hazbin hotel critical #hazbin hotel criticism #hazbin hotel critique #anti hazbin hotel #helluva boss negative #helluva boss negativity #helluva boss critical #helluva boss criticism #helluva boss critique #anti helluva boss #vivziepop negative #vivziepop negativity #vivziepop critical #vivziepop criticism #vivziepop critique #anti vivziepop #spindlehorse negative #spindlehorse negativity #spindlehorse critical #spindlehorse criticism #spindlehorse critique #anti spindlehorse

[xxlittle-miss-horrorxx]

So a very minor nitpick on Helluva Boss….

I know I said I should only ramble with a sideblog for Helluva boss and Hazbin hotel to put a lot of u criticisms in (it’s not gonna be like an anti blog or anything, the show is still very much a guilty pleasure for me) but I just feel like getting this out of my system

I recalled seeing a critical post about Helluva boss’s lack of music diversity and how we sadly don’t see much other music genres than generic pop songs and musical numbers… They mentioned how they wish they saw more metal music and all of that and it reminded me why I have a massive issue with the show’s misusage of the word goth.

I don’t think anyone outside of the goth subculture or most people (even critical blogs) know this, but goth isn’t really a fashion aesthetic. Just like with metal, punk, and grunge, it’s a music based subculture that originated from the punk movement during the late 70s and on forward gave birth to goth as we all know.

That being said, it’s why I have a massive issue with the show labeling Loona and Octavia being goth, when they literally don’t even show signs of listening to goth music (like the Bauhaus, The Cure..) and mostly just get emo or pop songs.

Loona to me just comes off more like an emo girl than a goth, not even a mallgoth (since mallgoths are more like metalheads) since she’s shown to like bands like My Chemical Romance and even the song when searching for Octavia gave odd 2000s emo vibe. Why couldn’t y’all just went with calling her emo instead of goth 🙃🙃🙃

Now Octavia to me, could come off as a baby bat exploring the goth subculture but she always plays pop music for her and idk… I get it, most baby bats won’t be familiar with goth music right away but idk it be nice to hear those themes.

That being said, Helluva Boss isn’t the only cartoon guilty of this. Majority of cartoons in general were always made by normie people and they don’t know much about the goth subculture and only relied on stereotypes normal people have about goths.

However, there are adult cartoons that actually did research better when writing goth characters and giving them more accurate music that fits them.

Take the South Park goth kids for an example

In their room, you notice a poster that’s called Skippy Puppy and the Blauhaus, which are spoof bands of real bands called Skinny Puppy and The Bauhaus which are two bands that are very much liked by goths (bauhaus being the first goth band that gave birth to goth, and skinny puppy is more industrial than goth, we consider that goth adjacent since back in the 90s, goth and industries music were very much mashed together in goth clubs )

Even by character designs, Michael and Henrietta were modeled after Robert Smith and Siouxsie Sioux, who were very much the big time iconic goth musicians.

Matt and Trey themselves are huge fans of the Cure and even had a cameo of Robert smith and even hung out with goths before, so you can see why they got a depiction of them to notch. And the whole thing with them and the vamp kids was a real thing that happened with the 90s with goths and mall goths, i suggestion checking out Angela Benedict’s video for that.

Another example is Venture Bros since Triana believe it or not, is very much an accurate depiction of a goth. And they even referenced bands like the Bauhaus, Alien, Nik Fiend, and Deathrock music as some of Triana’s interests.

But the big kicker is Triana herself, is voiced by Lisa friggin Hammer!

For anyone who doesn’t know, Lisa hammer was an iconic goth musician during the 90s and was in two ethereal wave bands known as Mors Siphlitica and Requiem in White. The fact they had her voice their goth character shows me they did their research.

Even Seth McFarlene got this right (yes you heard me) with American Dad with Debbie and her goth peers, not only making her a very down to earth person but they made their main theme “Love will Tear us Apart” from Joy Division

For those that may not know, Joy Division is one of the Big 5 of goth bands along with the the Bauhaus, the Cure, Sioxusie and the Banshees, and Sisters of Mercy. So I was surprised that Seth got this right, since he’s known to stereo things in his shows.

And of course we also have Daria, with having two goth characters and no I don’t mean Daria and Jane. (Having a cynical personality doesn’t make you a goth) But rather do I mean Andrea and Trent

She was so obviously modeled after Robert Smith and Siouxsie Sioux since those two were very iconic with goth fashion back on the day, we sadly don’t see much of her but you can tell they took inspiration.

And you may be thinking, but why Trent? He doesn’t even dress goth and just seems like he likes any music. While he’s that may be true, but I Remeber having this conversation with other goths in Instagram where we had a huge disccuin of goth characters in fiction. And one of my peers mentioned Trent also counts because he’s shown to have an interest in goth music if you look at his bedroom. So I thought I check out and what do you know

There’s a poster of Bauhaus and Sisters of Mercy inside his bedroom :) and honestly guys, there are actual goths like this I knew in real life. Where they don’t dress the part but are still a huge fanatic of the music. Like you don’t need to dress all dark to be goth, that’s optional, you just really need to enjoy goth music to be goth.

And of course we have Serena from Downtown who actually was not only based off of a goth in real life, but she’s shown interests in goth bands like Dead Can Dance and a satire of Sisters of Mercy as shown here.

The Brothers of Creation is basically a parody of sisters of Mercy. But not only that, she even brought up on one episode how she got tired of goths being badly judged and stereotyped by others (even being lumped by Masonites, which we all know how controversial Marilyn Manson was back then and how his fanbase ignited a horrible stereotype about goths. He was never a goth artist, but normies had the assumption that all goths are like him and his fanbase based on how they just dress similar to goths) and her annoyance with neckbeards that thirst over goth women just makes her relatable to me. Since sadly, there are many men that creep on goth women like us and we get tired of it.

Now honestly, it really should not be that hard to add some goth music to give for Loona and Octavia. They do that modern day humor so much with Instagram and tik tok, they literally could had use a parody of Dusty from Vision Video (who’s a very popular goth tik toker and even has his own bad that’s very similar to the cure) and given we have knowledge now, this amount of research to write goth characters SHOULD NOT BE THAT HARD.

But you know, all would be forgiven if they don’t have hints of liking goth music if they just made Loona a lot more likable. My main pet peeve with her is that she comes off as a negative stereotype of goths that a lot of us don’t like. It just gives normies a really bad idea of us that we are all shitty people.

So anyways rant over, Vivziepop REALLY needs to try and branch out different music genres or research alternative subcultures better before making goth characters.

#helluva boss critical #vivziepop critical #spindlehorse critical #hazbin hotel critical #yes I’m aware this has been an issue for a lot of cartoons and not just this show #but as someone who’s been in the goth subculture since 2013 #this is super frustrating #we have information now to know more about goth #just tired of people depicting goths so bad #like damn get our music tastes right at least #or don’t potray as the way normies see us as negative stereotypes

[flower-boi16]

So, the imp critic from that episode with the longest title name ever is actually based on a stalker the Spindlehorse crew had.

Oh, alright. Suddenly I approve of his existence a lot more.

#hazbin hotel #helluva boss #spindlehorse #vivziepop #not tagging this critical cuz it ain't negative #but whoever stalked spindlehorse #....fuck you #I don't like Viv but making a character based on one of your stalkers is an unironically nice move

[tranquil-slaughterhouse]

@danidraws666hellverse , promoter of

GAY DEMON SEX

#hazbin hotel #helluva boss #spindlehorse #vivziepop #hellaverse #disclaimer: it's j/ and the artist hasn't really reached over 90k followers yet #the defamatory negative review is real however

[kedikatzen]

Remember, folks, if you point out to a SpindleHorse crew member where their boss needs to apologize for condoning and defending another crew-member sexually harassing a minor, you'll get blocked and told that it was the minor's fault.

These people seriously think that is a 16 year old sneaks into a club and get SH'd/SA'd while in there, "it's their fault for being in an 18+ place." They'll ignore the fact that the abuser SH'd them in any way they can. Next, they'll be asked "Well what was she wearing??"

If y'all don't keep up with my Twitter, let me get you up to date, because I'm tired of these people pushing a narrative that victims are at fault for the situations they're put in.

A storyboard artist for Spindle, R2, sexually harassed a minor on Twitter. The minor, now a year older but still a minor, then reached out to Viv over threads about getting an apology, and Viv victim blamed with with "I'm sorry if you were uncomfortable, but it was your fault for engaging and it was a joke so get over it" in so many words. I went and reached out to R2 about the incident, about getting an apology for the victim, because this has affected them for the last year and they're still living with the negative consequences of what R2 put them through. R2 doesn't deny the SH, claims he apologized only for "mistaking their age" before immediately deleting his account, and then followed up with a post captioned "Stay mad about it" when asked for an upfront apology. R2 never apologized for the SH, he claims to have apologized for the mistake about their age - but again, neither denies the SH nor apologizes for it, and when prompted to, posts a "Stay mad about it" post immediately. SH is wrong against anyone, especially minors but it's not limited to only being wrong when it's against them. Viv's "apology" is "Sorry you got uncomfortable BUT it's your fault and it was a joke and get over yourself", that's not an apology especially for something as serious as SH. "I don't know what else you want them to do," I just want a genuine apology, that's all the minor wants, what's so hard to wrap your minds around about a genuine apology??

I'm getting really tired of SpindleHorse employees not only avoiding culpability and common decency, but outright defending heinous things and trying to hide the evidence of it. I was specifically asked by this employee, "do you have proof of that??" and when I posted proof they panicked and tried to cover it up immediately by hiding my replies. You guys cannot claim to stand up for victims, against victimization, or even stand beside victims when you actively go out of your way to hide the evidence of the victims of your boss and peers.

Regarding the Brock thing, you can see here that Viv's stance on whether or not to bring him back depends entirely on how his response "plays out". This was after she already took his role away, so she had already decided that there was enough flak or evidence or warrant kicking him off in the first place, but she was still open to inviting him back despite what she calls "his misconduct".

I wasn't going to make a bigger post about this because I hate cluttering up my feed with it, but I'm getting really tired of these people excusing the worst sort of behaviour and having the audacity to sit on a high horse about it. All I've ever asked for his accountability, I want to see Viv apologize to her victims, but I don't know how feasible that is with the list of victims growing constantly. An apology is up to the victim themself to accept, and while I might be willing to accept one and the minor R2 victimized might be willing to accept one, I can't speak for every single person and I don't know how feasible that even is with the list constantly growing.

#personal #vivziepop #vivziepop critical #spindlehorse #spindlehorse critical #hazbin hotel #helluva boss #this is exactly why i don't want this media anywhere near me #it leaves such a nasty trail behind for all of this being associated with it #jigokuhana

[showtoonzfan]

The SpindleHorse team is full of two-faced individuals. There’s a leaked screenshot of crew member (@hntrgurl13 on Twitter), telling both Lackadaisy and Farfetched to “suck a dick” on Vivziepop’s discord server and bragging about Helluva Boss winning a Streamy award…yet they told people to “support all indie animation” not too long ago; what a hypocrite. This behavior is disgusting and only proves how toxic that studio is.

I already addressed this on twitter, I’m aware. It really is ridiculous and shows these people’s true colors. You can be happy about HB winning an award, that’s fine, but talking shit and dragging down other indie cartoons just trying to get by for no reason? Yeah that just makes you look like a petty asshole who doesn’t care about indie animation unless it’s something YOU work on or something YOU like. It’s NOT a good look.

Also @hntrgurl13 maybe wait till Far Fetched is actually OUT before you talk shit about it? And maybe take your own advice about supporting indie animation and not acting like every indie cartoon needs to pin against each other as if this is some competition, thanks. It’s really funny too, y’all wanna spout about negative feedback and criticism to Helluva Boss but I guess if it’s OTHER shows, it’s okay then lol. Hypocrite.

#vivziepop critical #spindlehorse critical #helluva boss critical #helluva boss critique #hazbin hotel critical #helluva boss criticism #helluva critical #helluva boss

[tocomplainfriend]

Norry accusing S3tok of grooming because they think they were targeting minors with negative opinions of the show is so fucking stupid.

"Rewarding the minor with a like for harassing me" HAahahahaha, this sounds like a medieval king or some shit. That's grooming????, liking the tweet of a kid? And also... Proof? Of like nothing lol?

S3tok never targets kids with their critics? Spread misinfo to minors about a fucking show and the idiots that work in the show is apparently grooming??? What misinfo? People crazy. These people work at Spindlehorse.

edit:

Bleh bleh bleh "But u still mad at spindelhorse" all this people are crybabies, Glitch admitted the problems and apologized, unlike SP/viv.

#vivziepop critical #helluva boss criticism #hazbin hotel critical

[broadwayfangirl222]

I don't usually comment on this stuff, like at most I'll just find post I agree with and reblog it but I wanted to share my own thoughts on this:

In light of the leaks and all the spoilers and people commenting on the first two episodes. I'll just say, the anti/critical crowd has lost any and all credibility to me. I don't even mean this in a disparaging or negative way, I just legitimately can not trust their takes anymore. This isn't because I'm a stan who can't stand anyone not liking something they like. I don't care if you like vivziepop's shows or not. Like or don't like whatever you want The reason why I can't can't trust anti/critical takes anymore is because I've seen the most bad faith criticism and takes. I've seen it for the episodes I've seen so since I can't/won't watch the two hazbin episodes yet I'm gonna guess it'll be about the same for those. Like just off the top of my head i've seen takes from ciritics that are like: Somehow it's bad writing for Ozzie to make a whole point about consent, that it's somehow bad for the angels to be similar to the demons (which is the whole point, the point is they're not so different from the demons and the angels are massive hypocrites), Stella never physically abused Stolas 'cause he caught her hand before she could hit him, that somehow this scene between two disabled characters is somehow bad:

not even "it was bad representation because (x,y,z reasons)" Just...it was somehow bad to have this in the episode at all and how the writing for this would've apparently been better if the kid dealt with ableism or was mistreated before this.

And these are from people who at least watch the show/know the basic info about the show since I could be here all day if we go into the misinformation and flat out lies that muddy up the water. Not to mention the harassment being flung at both fans and people working on the shows. I've seen antis/criticals start attacking the people behind prehistoric planet and how the show is now ruined because Vivziepop made a post simply saying she was a fan of it. I've also seen people admitting to lying about working for Spindlehorse so they can lie about how bad the working conditions were. I would genuinely be willing to hear criticism of both the shows and crew if so much of it wasn't obviously done purely in bad faith and there were way less people willing to literally lie and fabricate things to make the shows and crews seem worse than they actually are.

Again I don't care if anyone likes the shows and crew or not. Like I said earlier everyone's entitled to their opinion and nothing/no one is perfect. I just get frustrated about (the lack of) media literacy and care about the very real world consequences that can come from some of the stuff being said/posted. For there to be any kind of actual conversation about this, and not just two camps of people yelling at each other, first, the harassment just needs to stop all together. No one deserves harassment, especially over something as frivolous as a tv show. Next, we need to get rid of misinformation especially when it relates to real people. Actually look into the info you're spreading or see being talked about, make corrections and admit if something ended up being wrong/misinformed.

#hazbin hotel #idk rambling #shut up me #I'm just of media illiteracy and misinfo being spread #might delete later

[crooked-wasteland]

The SpindleHorse team is full of two-faced individuals. There’s a leaked screenshot of crew member (@hntrgurl13 on Twitter), telling both Lackadaisy and Farfetched to “suck a dick” on Vivziepop’s discord server and bragging about Helluva Boss winning a Streamy award…yet they told people to “support all indie animation” not too long ago on their Twitter account; what a hypocrite. This behavior is disgusting and only proves how toxic that studio is.

Credit to @showtoonzfan for this. Frankly, I think it is fine if you want to be a nasty petty person, but to publicly have such a different face, as well as then use that mask to weaponize an entire fanbase of abusers and harrassers. That's just where I have to say:

This is a situation of a creator fostering a community that is a reflection of the creator.

That dig at Ashley was personal and ugly. But you know, the HB Fandom is saying now that people can say whatever they want behind the scenes. But if anyone else says anything negative about Helluva Boss in private, they are now two-faced hypocrites.

It's the moving of goalposts for me, to be honest.

They don't have to pretend to be supportive of other projects. They can just keep their mouth shut and be a real person behind the scenes as well as an honest person in the public eye. To pretend to be a supporter or a friend is so much worse than just keeping quiet.

But this is Vivienne. This is just a continuation of posting the Lackadaisy email. This is a continuation of Sam Haft and his goons platforming the false reports to bury the concept stills controversy. And just a continuation of being angry at Ashley and Michael for the Hazbin Hotel situation and trying to act like someone announcing their employment status is somehow a breach of an NDA. Which is unenforceable as an NDA agreement due to the nature of the business.

It's the face of someone who doesn't know how to be a real person and likable at the same time. The only time Vivienne is kind or supportive is only ever in this platformed, showy way where it is obviously a performance. It feels fake every time she does it.

Like, just don't say anything. And telling other hard-working teams to suck a dick when one isn't even out and the other only has a pilot. That's not petty. That's just a nasty, mean, hateful person. Petty is saying congratulations, your 2 season series with a whole team of independently contracted artists and animators beat 2 story time channels and a parody channel that goes out of its way to be as repulsive as possible. Look at you winning that low hanging fruit. Good job.

#helluva boss critical #helluva boss criticism #helluva boss critique #vivienne medrano #vivziepop #helluva boss #vivziepop critical #spindlehorse critical #spindlehorse criticism #Im being honest about my feelings here #i try to keep my critiques impersonal #but the fact that these fans have been rather cruel to me has made me less sympathetic rn #you all are nasty #such mean people who pretend to be better than they are #its just a mirror

[gartenofbanny]

Hello! I am currently trying to make a document including all evidence of Viv's problematic behaviour, and since you're quite popular in the critical community, I wanted to ask your opinion on the structure of it. If I missed anything feel free to correct me!

Vivziepop is a horrible person

I-early signs

-Nazi sausage party ocs (inspred by doctor Mengele, following a nazi blog

-drawing Kesha and glorifying her illness

-Zoophobia (contains the Addison drawings, Mirage being depicted as goofy when she's a pedo, Sahara and Latika designs

-supporting blaire white and Shoe0nhead (her too since Shoe has recently been revealed as a neo nazi)

-transphobia (discord messages)

-drawing Mimzi as a caricature/stereotype of Jewish people

II-Spindlehorse & twitter

-Raphielle shipping valangel, saying their a proshipper and still working on SH

-Following multiple proshippers, including someone who used audios of REAL kids for his digital CP and someone who actively ships Rick/Morty

-allowing and encouraging the harrasment of people who critique her shows to the point they are forced to come out or receive rape threats

-Blaming A24 for the lack of competent advertisement on Hazbin Hotel and replacing the voice cast

-encouraging harassing Erin Frost and Kendraw for coming out with their experience with her

-Studio reviews revealing the nepotism and abuse in the SH studio

III- The shows

-finn/ cole was made cis when he was originally trans

-sally mae only regarded by the fandom as a trap or futa, sexualised in every piece of her merch with her dick being emphasized to the point the fandom fetishizes her

-alastor being made creole or mixed as an afterthought, when Viv had already used real life voodoo symbols, very clearly inspiring alastor from Wendigos without any research, made him white as paper and depicted him as the 100th " asexual and aromantic person is an evil murderer!".

His asexuality and possible aromanticism is always ignored by the fandom in favor of shipping, and inclusive Vivziepop even said to do as they pleased with his sexuality for shipping.

-forced positivity, pushing the idea that even murderers, abusers and horrible people can change hazbin hotel

Depicting abuse (Crimson hitting Moxxie, the whole Valangel tag existing) and sexual assault (again woth Moxxie and angel) as funny jokes or sexy

-Noticing a pattern, Viv tends to promote M/M relationships a lot but depicts them as overtly sexual, predatory and toxic, and seems to have a problem with having "twink" characters abused sexually in a yaoi-ish way (Addison, Moxxie and Angel, Vox. Stolas/blitz too.)

-the only two people of color that are confirmed are Alastor, Velvette and Valentino. Velvette's color is very ashy and she is often infantilised (this might have more to do with her being a woman in Vivs eyes) she presents no POC features at all, neither does Valentino who is a stereotypical black man who is a pimp, abusive (sexually too) and has a short temper.

-using "it's hell " as an excuse to make horrible characters to glorify and depict as the true victim while doing nothing to become better. (Ex. Stolas is a rapist , Blitzo Sexually harrasses his co-workers and is very toxic, Alastor is a serial killer.) Depiction is not glorification, but Viv actively makes it seem like all of it is okay to do and has a show who has a very negative message that affects the viewers and fanbase into excusing disgusting shit.

-disrespecting religion by not accurately researching the demons she talks about

-Sexist writing in helluva and hazbin that favores males(Loona,Millie,Stella, Verosika)

-ableist language by Blitzo, refusal to acknowledge this and even joking about not being able to say a slur

-collaborates with Brandon Rogers,whose work is clearly sexist,racist,homophobic and ableist

-making fun of eating disorders (Moxxie)

-involving kesha in her show while she is trying to get justice for being abused and trying to recover, making the character she voices based on all the things she hated about herself

-included famous voice actors, pays thousands for them but actively underpaid and overworked her staff

-No trigger on an episode that contained Blitzo vomiting

-Barbie wire grooming a teenager is considered a joke (and the tweet doesn't count, we should be able to tell if the teen was actually older by his design or any line of dialogue, if those who don't have twitter won't know it means it's a problem)

-various incest jokes hinting at proshipping (Moxxie/Millie, and a rumor +dialogue cues hint at Andrealphus and Stella being in a relashionship)

-merch of almost all female characters being somewhat sexual

-depicting the Woman/Man as the only healthy relationship (Moxxie/Millie) while the queer couples are toxic (Chaz/Moxxie Blitzo/Stolas)

Holy shit that's a long read, I suggest you make that into a blog post or something. The only portion I can assume that you got correct is the third section. Most of the first two sections are spot on to me, but I am not sure if they're both completely correct because I'm not really aware of what Vivziepop did in the past, just what she has been doing since like last year. Sorry to disappoint, but it is pretty great from what I'm reading.

Modify it to what you think is best so that people will read from it and test read it yourself in case you got something wrong. I suggest you use Grammarly for grammar or spelling issues because even though English is my first language I still struggle with those

#helluva boss #vivziepop critical #helluva boss critical #helluva boss criticism #vivziepop criticism #vivziepop #helluva critical #helluva boss critique #vivienne medrano #hazbin hotel #hazbin hotel critique #hazbin critical #hazbin hotel critical #hazbin hotel criticism

[spooky-donut-ghost-house]

If you ever feel bad about your writing remember this:

You didn't write Hazbin Hotel

#hazbin hotel negativity #hazbin hotel negative #helluva boss negative #helluva boss negativity #spindlehorse negative #spindlehorse negativity #vivziepop negative #vivziepop negativity #hazbin hotel critical #hazbin hotel criticism #hazbin hotel critique #helluva boss critical #helluva boss criticism #helluva boss critique #spindlehorse critical #spindlehorse criticism #spindlehorse critique #vivziepop critical #vivziepop criticism #vivziepop critique #anti hazbin hotel #anti helluva boss #anti vivziepop #anti spindlehorse

[chaifootsteps]

[Regarding Mental Health Themes in the Leaks]

((Substance abuse mentions))

Seeing Helluva be praised for how well it “handles mental health” because of the Fizz episode, makes me so so mad, because of how terribly they’re mishandling anti depressants, and have been ableist themselves. From using the R slur twice, to messing with captions as a ‘joke’

First of all they call anti depressants by the most juvenile name possible “anti sads” or something like that (are you fucking kidding me right now? That is not all that they do) they show a character who has just consumed strong alcohol, grabbing a handful of tablets, literally overdosing. And then he just casually sings a song and the substances show no real effect on him. They show the character consuming strong medication as if it’s candy, just for some extra drama. And he’s fine??

Ok. No. That is so, so dangerous. Not only does mixing alcohol and mood stabilisers completely fuck up your brain chemistry, it makes depression symptoms far worse. I don’t even think there was a substance abuse trigger warning in the opening.

And all of this is manipulation of the audience to justify this characters entire seasons worth of abuse of other people. Fucking hell.

It gets worse going by the leaks.

So…if I’m getting things right, when confronted for destroying the already broken family, the show straight up shames Stolas for taking anti depressants? And gratuitously shows how much he’s been overdosing on them, as Via finds a giant box of the things. He has a lot to be shamed for, SA, abuse, classism, neglect, but this isn’t one of them. How ridiculous.

Secondly, Via finds these and says ‘so it was a lie all along!” it spreads the negative ableist stereotype that anti depressants are a “fake happiness” that makes you feel emotions you ‘don’t really have” and that the medication is just someone running from their problems with a quick fix.

People are already so fearful of taking this medication and staying on it, even when it helps them, because of negative stereotypes like this. And it’s being used in a melodramatic, backwards abuser storyline. At the end of Vias song it just has the most awkward zoom in on Blitz giving Stolas his jacket, and him crying (big fuckin surprise) cradling the shameful anti depressants.

Hell, replace the medication with that creepy as fuck imp doll stolas has used as an unresponsive bedmate since he was a kid, and it would make more sense. They’ve even implied that Via disturbingly overheard the sex, but it’s never mentioned.

Shame on Vivienne Medrano/Spindlehorse for this one. Fuck them. seriously.

I don't know what about the depiction of mental health in HB is worse to me...that Stolas's antidepressants are part of the reason his daughter cuts ties with him or the implication that all he needs to get off of those "anti sads" is a relationship with Blitzo.

Both are horrifying, and both are irresponsible.

#Anonymous #helluva boss critical #viv stuff #actual blog post

[flower-boi16]

Do you think this fandom can still improve despite everything? Is it Viv and Spindlehorse's fault that this fandom is problematic or there is deeper root cause? Despite the amount of negativity both hh and hb recieved, is it still possible to listen to fans who give constructive criticism and improve both shows? Many fans often say something like"The Spindlehorse's crew don't want to listen to critics because there are too many bad faith criticism and hate" or "Those critics don't have the vision of the creators so their advices are invalid." I think both sides of this fandom are overly aggressive to whatever happened. It must have something behind it.

I think the reason why the fandom reacts so poorly to criticism is a mix of several factors:

These shows are fairly popular, the more popular something is the bigger the fanbase will be. And, likewise, some fans would be very defensive when it comes to criticism.

The batshit insane twitter users and fake outrage being confused with the actual critiques people have of the shows. I'll admit, early critical videos were...not great to say the least (cough cough Pkrussel cough cough), and many of Viv's past controversies are admittedly dumb. However, there are real issues people have with these shows and Vivziepop, however, because of all the past controversies with Viv being over-blown, fans lump these real and valid critiques in with the fake Twitter outrage, causing this confusing mess.

Vivziepop's reaction to critiscm. She directly dismisses critiques people have of her shows and pretty clearly spends a bit too much time on online discourse about her shows. Viv IS aware of the critiques people have of her shows but she has this very immature response to criticism just looking at her twitter, and, this does translate to the fandom as well.

Drama channels such as AyyLmao and Iox constantly defending Viv and her shows. AyyLmao is a fairly big channel and a lot of his videos are about controversies surrounding Viv. Pretty much all of these tend to be heavily biased as AyyLmao instantly takes Viv's side, as in several of his videos he deliberately chooses to lump in the actual critiques of the shows with the deranged Twitter users online, which contributes to the second problem I mentioned above. This can be seen with his hatedom video where he says that most of the criticism at least on Twitter isn't "real criticism" and "just hate disguised on such". Notice how he says that at least on Twitter the criticism is just hate. He's deliberately making it look like the critical community is just a bunch of deranged Twitter users who just hate Viv cuz they are jealous or something, when looking at sites such as Reddit, Youtube, Tumblr, etc you'll see people with ACTUAL PROBLEMS with the shows, by AyyLmao's ignoring that in order paint the critical community as a toxic hell-hole. He pretends to be neutral in the video but he clearly is biased with how he paints the critics here, as he only focuses on this one site just to make it look like the critical community is just an annoying vocal minority on Twitter. and because of that, the fandom views the critical community as just that; just an annoying vocal minority of Twitter users who shouldn't be taken seriously.

The fandom just refusing to engage with people's critiques because they can't handle criticism of their favorite shows. That's pretty obvious.

I don't think the fandom will get better any time soon given these factors I just mentioned. Until Viv learns to accept criticism, until Viv drama channels stop defending her bullshit, and until the fandom actually engages with people's critiques rather than sending death threats...ya no this fandom is still going to be awful.

#vivziepop critical #hazbin hotel critical #helluva boss critical #vivziepop criticism #helluva boss criticism #hazbin hotel criticism #spindlehorse critical #spindlehorse criticism

[thowawayuntilfurthernotice]

It really doesn't matter if Viv donated money to the Lackadaisy campaign or not, the campaign had already surpassed its goal by the time it went up.

This isn't a case of a Kickstarter project that doesn't have a massive online following, Lackadaisy is already super popular, there was no way the first season wasn't going to get funded.

Fact of the matter is, SpindleHorse's reputation as a studio isn't so hot right now, and instead of just addressing the negative reviews head on, Viv is trying to distract everyone with a large donation.

Donating money to the campaign isn't gonna change the fact that a lot of former SpindleHorse employees want nothing to do with you Viv.

It doesn't change what happened with Erin and Ken Draws, and it certainly isn't going to change the fact that production on the season one finale of Helluva Boss became a legal nightmare because Viv just had to have Kesha on the show.

My issue with this whole thing isn't that Viv donated, my issue is that people are still refusing to hold her accountable for her shit actions.

#Vivziepop Critical #Helluva Boss Critical #Hazbin Hotel Critical #SpindleHorse Critical

[theliterarywolf]

Sorry I’ve gotta pop in one last time on this Viv/Lackadaisy controversy (because yesterday was the first I’d heard of it). I feel like an exasperated mother because I’m looking at these two indie animation projects (Yes I’ll still consider Viv indie even with HB being picked up), and going “You little shits, you are literally all you have! You only have each other to watch out for you!” Support each other so you can share your audience and not rely on studios! APES STRONG TOGETHER!!! (1)

Like regardless of how much popularity Lackadaisy has gotten, it will NEVER be on normie levels of popularity like Walking Dead or GoT. These indie projects need to reinforce each other and not create needless drama. They don’t have the financial means/reputation to start slap fights just because you don’t like each other. And for what it’s worth, I think Viv’s donation was from a place of genuine love for other creators (I’ve seen old comments from her on other people’s animatics).

Bwuh, bwuh, but..! Viv is a meanie-poopie face who, because she didn't know proper time-management early on in HB's first season, is literally worse than John K.'s left testicle, tho..!

I fucking hate how so many people behind indie productions just can not break away from middle school-level drama and realize, like you mentioned, that they are all going up against major studios and companies that have more fiscal and legal backing than they ever will.

And this isn't to say that everybody in the Indie space has to be Kumbaya Fingerblasting each other; no! There are going to be people that you just don't like/don't enjoy working with. That's an inevitability in this world. But a professional who has the success of their project/organization in mind and has some God damn socioeconomic maturity knows how to be civil.

Here's an example: at my new job site, they employ the RCA House System. This whole time leading up into new staff members being sorted into houses, I had it in my mind 'Please, God, don't put me in the house with the two annoying motherfuckers on-staff' But I still did my work, was cordial to said two annoying motherfuckers, and was civil.

...Lo' and behold, I ended up getting sorted into the same house as those two annoying motherfuckers but do you think I'm going to be bitchy about it or go on social media to complain and bring a negative light to my team? NO! Because the image and success of the school year is more important than whatever banal issues I may have with the two in question.

And that's the sign of being a fucking professional.

And with the Donation Kerfluffle, I will always remind people: it wasn't just Viv donating: it was several people at Spindlehorse, including Viv, who pooled money together to give to boost another Indie Production because it should be a case of everyone supporting each other in the face of an indifferent/dying industry. So it was from a place of well-meaning and the claims of 'oh, Viv just wants her name on everything' is... so dumb.

[anglercrit]

What is animation reviews that came out today and what does it have to do with Vivziepop? I can't make out the image and don't know what is going on.

Ah yea sorry- the animation studio reviews are basically feedback from employees working at a studio about how good it is to work there and the spindlehorse ones came back SUPER negative.

Here’s the image- you might still have to click to zoom in on it but it should be better.

#helluva boss critical #helluva boss criticism #helluva critical #helluva critique #helluva boss critique #vivziepop criticism #vivziepop critical #🐟